Every Single Album - 'Can't Be Tamed' | Every Single Album: Miley Cyrus

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

With 'Can't Be Tamed,' Miley Cyrus is yet again trying to break away from the Disney stronghold, but not quite able to do it. Nora and Nathan discuss her last album released under Disney. They talk about her biggest hit from this era, which isn't actually on this album (1:00); how her voice is masked on a lot of the songs (24:00); and the synth-pop influences that are starting to leak into her music (43:14). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe show. That's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the playoffs are coming up. And now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify. or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast. Let's go.

And welcome to every single album, Miley Cyrus. I am Nora Preciati. I am going to issue a blanket apology. I have a little bit of a head cold and potting through it. So if I sound a tad bit stuffy in the nasal area, my apologies. I hope you will stick through it. I am joined by my fabulous colleague, as always, Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, how are you doing? Are you ready to talk about Miley Cyrus. I'm always trying to talk about Miley Cyrus. I'm going to issue a blanket apology because this is the earliest we've ever recorded an episode of every single album. So while I may not have the same head situation happening, I got the grumps. And this is not the album that we should be reviewing when I have the grumps. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Well, apologies to Miley

if we go through this with the grumps because Nathan and Kaya did very kindly move our recording time. so that I didn't sound entirely like Mr. Toad and only a little bit like Mr. Toad. So again... I wanted to pod with Mr. Toad. I really wanted just a one chance. Really nobody wanted that. Except for you, I guess.

Speaking of having your voice altered, it can't be tamed episode, Nora. It's Can't Be Tamed Week. Absolutely. So this is another one where we have to do a little bit of chronology. I think. Yeah, we do.

We kick into the full rundown of Can't Be Tamed because that is the album that we're tackling today. That is, that comes out in 2010. However, the year before, Miley also releases the time of our lives EP, which I think we will spend some time talking about as well on this episode because that is, in addition to being a promotional EP released to support a Walmart collaboration

with Max Azria that Miley did. As one does. As one does. Absolutely. I had a BcbG, Max Azria prom dress in 2011, I guess, and was very proud of it. Okay. Okay. More famously, this is the EP

that contains party in the USA, which is going to be relevant to this discussion. That to me is the confounder. part of this entire chronology. Because here we are now talking about an album in 2010, but there is massive canon

that has been released at this point. The climb is out. Best of both worlds is out. All of the punk as fuck meet Miley Cyrus is out. Party in the fucking USA. is out. And so there is now massive canon that's there. And to me, that is why this album can't be tamed is so confusing. Because I just, other than a just objective rejection of the constraints of

being a Disney star, I don't understand how this happened. So I want you to explain more of what you mean by that, but I'll tell you how I felt, which is that I think, as you're saying, this is such a confusing moment, both in real time and also looking back on it. Because as you say, there is canon out. She has, so party in the USA goes to number two. Party in the USA in any other universe other than the one we live in where it came out at the same time that the Black I've got a feeling out. So it got a feeling that tonight's going to be a good night. So it got stuck at number two.

That is a number one with a bullet, just like anthemic. I've heard that song at every wedding I've ever been to, you know, smash hit career defining song. It's like the unofficial national anthem as far as I'm concerned. Totally. But the climb also, like the climb and party in the USA are within a year of each other. The climb was a was got to number four. She did the climb at the Obama inauguration. She did an event for like for, um, kids as part of the

inaugural ceremonies. And like she got up there and did the climb and it was awesome. Like, Miley Cyrus is in a lot of ways like she's on top of the world. She has done all of these things. She has released these like canon songs. There is a solid collection of music. And then also she's sort of trying to start this solo career that she has been trying to start for at least two albums, if not three, sort of away from Hannah Montana. And at the same time, these are all still basically Hannah Montana songs. Or they could be. Like, we just haven't gotten that far away from it musically. And so it feels simultaneously like she's been in the Hannah zone for so. so long.

And then also if you think about even just where she goes next, because the episode after this, we're going to talk about bangers. But between then and now, it's like there's such a chasm. And those two things are really weird to square with each other.

It's just what you have to accept with Miley. It just like there are these weird zigs and zags of her career arc that even now, I mean, I think, look, the first thing to me is it speaks to how hard it is to follow up a massive hit with music that comes next. Like, to follow Party in the USA with anything is going to be hard. And the single that they put out from that EP didn't really go anywhere. And so this album, unless it had something stratospheric was probably going to quote unquote disappoint.

never mind that it sure feels like Disney didn't love the cover art and certainly didn't love some of the lyrical components of this album, maybe didn't even love it musically, and probably didn't do as much work. I think it debuts at number three and then it quickly starts to fall. I think generally speaking, this one gets looked at as something that you might sweep under the rug a bit rather than sort of hold out as one of the great ones in an anthology. Yeah, I mean, it did less than a third of breakout in first week sales. Right. And, you know, honestly, for good reason, which we'll get into.

But we might be seeing it today, the same situation with Miley, which is that fast forward from party in the USA to certainly wrecking ball, but to flowers, which in a lot of ways, maybe is her biggest hit ever, statistically. This new album, the stuff that she's putting out, that's going to be what she's up against, is trying to follow these strokes of genius and these, again, explosive stratospheric, huge star songs with what comes next.

It's not an easy thing to do. And on the other hand, you know, end of the world is a better song by a million billion times than anything that's on this album. And so I just, to me, the choices that were going on behind the scenes, I want to know who was making them. I want to know, I mean, this is an album that gets made while she's on the road. And it seems like John Shanks was doing a lot of flying out, meeting her, and recording. Now, that is sometimes a way that albums can get made well, but it also could be that there wasn't full focus from my...

I don't know. I just think this album starts with the words, Don't live a lie. Don't live a lie. And I believe her, right? I believe that she's ready to break out and break free. But to your point, this is the third album, if you include Meet Miley Cyrus,

where we're signaling to the world that we're breaking out and making these changes and going in a different direction. And at some point, I just want her to do it. Now she's going to do it. She's going to do it.

But I think you have to just own and accept the whip-sawing back and forth of Miley as being part of the art. Like sometimes she gets it so fucking right and sometimes she doesn't. And what ends up in your lap is a whole bunch of content.

that some of which can be left on the floor and some of which needs to go in a trophy case and never be touched. Well, I think to some extent the explanation for that up to this point is just that the Disney machine is rigid and it knows what it does and it knows what it does well. And this is her last record for Disney and Hollywood records. And, you know, you often use that phrase, edge of the forest, which I think is very operative. Miley has been at the edge of the forest for like three albums. Right.

It's enough already. It's like she's been standing on the ledge being like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. But we, at least in the course of some of that stuff, like we got some of the punk stuff on Meet Miley Cyrus. We got the driveway. Which I can't believe she was 16 years old when she made that song.

Like she sings the crap out of that song. And it's a great song. So there's still really good stuff that's coming as she sprinkles these albums. Here's the climb. Did you need the rest of that soundtrack? There's some good stuff. But the climb is just so, it's pinnacle stuff. It's awesome.

But I wonder if, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, go. I wonder if as they got further along in the process in some ways, because those teams and John Shanks and everybody, else, like they'd honed in what was ostensibly working, what had worked in the past. And in some ways, I think you see, as Miley wants to break out of that mold, you see the producers and the writers and presumably the executives behind it going, okay, we've figured this out, let's just churn out another.

Because actually, it feels like there is less experimentation. than there was earlier on in the Hannah process and some of the Early Miley stuff. It feels like they have just settled on this thing that is half of the radio Disney core style that works with Hannah slash Early Miley works with the Jonas Brothers. It's borrowing from Demi Lovato.

It's like all in that wheelhouse. Plus they're smashing it up a little bit with the Early Gaga, Katie Perry, a little bit of... Like Britney Spears blackout, that circa 2009 dance pop, boom, and very little of any of that has to do with who Miley Cyrus is, who Miley Cyrus wants to be. Yeah.

And the thing that, I mean, rock mafia made a lot of stuff. John Shanks made a lot of stuff. And a lot of it is really good stuff. Totally. But the thing that bothers me the most about this album is the two DJ Khaled-esque shoutouts that rock mafia give themselves on the second and third songs of this album. It's back to back too. They need to put their own little watermark at the start of each song. And it is so antithetical to the lyrical part of this album, if you're,

you're going to take any of it, you know, directly. It's Miley saying, the first song is Liberty Walk. And maybe that's about a relationship. But it sure sounds like, you know, don't live a lie. Keep going. Be who you are. Break out. Say goodbye to the people who, you know, tied you up.

I'm breathing new oxygen. I'm not a prisoner anymore. It's all there, right? It's all there. Except it also is like two steps away in parts from the nobody's perfect. I got to work it where it's like, all right. Yeah, yeah, we're going to get it. Like it's still, it's kind of a perfect encapsulation of everything that's going on here because

those two sides are at war with each other. Right. But it's like the branding is already so confusing between what is Hannah? What is Miley? Okay, Miley, if you're going to break out, like, let's go. Like, break out, go do it. Why do we need to start branding rock mafia? Like, and this idea of constraints or conforming or somebody else being controlled, like to have

their watermark at the start of the two songs. It sucks. It's so off-putting. And I'm sure at the time, nobody even thought anything. First of all, contractually, like, what is the, what are the terms that they signed that say at the beginning of each song, we're going to have some creatively infused logo of ours, basically, tattooed before the song starts, because we really want people to remember that it was rock mafia that made Who Owns My Heart? I mean, who gives a shit? Who gives a shit, but why the branding confusion? And, but mostly to me, it's just like, if she's trying to break out of being controlled and of an institution or being, you know, what these guys sound like they're putting themselves

in front of Miley, just as I'm sure she felt like Disney was putting themselves in front of Miley or, you know, other people, whatever was happening with her family and, and business relationships at the time. I just, it is so, in hindsight, upsetting that this happened. It feels like should be in used and it creates more brand confusion or people not totally sure about who's actually in charge here. Who's driving this bus? So, yeah, I will say that was a weird trend.

Like, think about like the Gaga Red one. Like, just stands at the beginning. it's like Red One, Gaga. Like producers somehow had this moment right around when this album came out where it was just like, you know what you do? You yell your production team's name at the beginning of your song. And somehow a lot of people were doing it. I'm sure it's a little bit of both.

I will say they're not the only ones who pulled that trick off. Yeah. I mean, and it ultimately became, yeah. Jason DeRullo stole it for himself. which is an all-time moment for him. But that's what it is for me. And then I just have trouble as I listen to this. I'm looking for that driveway that I'm going to come back to.

And I just can't, I can't believe that this felt like the one to go with. And I think you probably are on to something. When you talk about that moment in time, 08, 09, synth pop stuff, early Gaga. We've got some Kesha and you can hear some Kesha in here. Oh boy, can you? We've got... Yeah, I mean...

You can hear some Kesha on Can't Be Tamed and we'll talk about that. There also literally is some Kasha who's a co-writer on one of the songs on the EP. Right. And, but I just... It's almost like she has to push back on so many things in her life

that feel controlling and... confining and constraining to her. Her family, Disney, the music that she's made and the character that she's created. Like, it's almost like she, for a while, it felt like was rebelling against party in the USA, maybe in part because it was a really intended

to be a Jesse J song and it sounds very Jesse J. But there was something in this moment that felt like that wasn't what she was about. there was more inside her that I think she's going to, you know, vomit out in the 2010s as she creates music sort of on her own terms. But I still look back and go, God, I think she does now. I think she's come to terms with party in the USA and, listen, it's made her set lists. She's celebrated the song. I just cannot understand for the life of me. This album, I think, is just her caught between a rock and a hard place. She's still locked in as the Disney, you know, in a Disney contract.

Hannah Montana is ending, but she isn't, I guess, able to creatively fully be herself. And the more that she wants to creatively fully be herself, the more she has this hangover of massive hits from what I think is still the Hannah Montana era in a lot of ways. Well, and where does she get some chance to rebel and sort of work outside the system and do things that those people didn't want her to do. It's sort of in her personal quasi-public life, right? It's she can't, she doesn't have full control over the work. And so you do get, you know, there's a video that comes out of her smoking a bong.

And there is a, a lot of stuff that she says about the music not representing the direction that she wants to go in. She does kind of, as you said, rebel a little bit against party in the USA. She gives an interview where she says she's never heard a JZ song, which cannot possibly be true.

It doesn't make any sense. And she starts to replace, like she replaces the JZ line. There is something about JZ because she replaced the JZ line live with Michael Jackson in a bunch of performances. So she had a real

being or bonded about that one, which I think is just like, you know, for the most part, I think she is proven right in feeling like, I got to break out of this box. We've done enough of this. I want to do something that is more

true to me and I want to progress as an artist. I think 98% of what's going on here absolutely supports that premise. Party in the USA doesn't. Party in the USA is an eternal song and I bet she thinks differently on that now as opposed

to like I hate that this is giving these people sort of proof of concept that when I do what they want it works. That would be my guess. I think you're right. I understand at the time. She's 16, 17, 18 years old. I think she's probably still searching a little bit for who she is and figuring it out

right. She's falling in love for the, I mean, well, I don't know, maybe for the second time. But she's having a relationship and and doing some real growing up. So it's really funny because this is probably one of the most innocuous collections of music that she's ever made. And there is also so much like underbelly to it. There's so much going on. Yeah. I mean, and it is, I mean, when you say innocuous, what do you mean? I mean, I don't think there's that much here that's like truly bad. Right.

It's always Miley Cyrus singing it, right? But it's just a lot of it is pretty inane. It's not creative. Why are we doing every rose has its thorn fourth? Okay. What is this move to put a cover song forth? Hot take. Hot take. I like the cover.

No way. I like the cover. I like the cover. It's so much better than the girls just want to have fun because they just let Miley, sing it. Like, I could do without the sort of synch string, whatever, but it's in the background.

Yeah, but that's like saying it's, it's, you know, it smells better than poop. I mean, it's, it's not, uh, we didn't love girls just want to have fun. Yeah. They just alter her voice so much on this album.

Like, there's just, yeah, the auto tune situation, they're putting a bunch of patches in, uh, plug-ins through the pro, machine on this record that I don't. And it's annoying because, again, go back to

breakout and the driveway, she's crushing. You can't even believe how great the voice is. The center of this human being in her artistry is this voice that seems to be unchanging as she evolves as a person and grows as a young woman. Like the voice is just there. So why would you fuck with it. I think they just fucked with it because Katie Perry was fucking with hers and Gaga was fucking with hers and everybody else is doing it, which is a bad reason to do it. But that's what this sounds like to me because I can't come up with any other reason why you would hear Miley Cyrus and be like, you know what we should do?

Obscure this incredibly unique and full of character instrument. The other thing, I mean, geez, they didn't need to work the rock mafia signature into the beginning of each song because you know what their actual signature. is it's those fucking space lasers. There are space lasers going off in every single one of these songs, left and right. I think you, you said that once about it was some One Direction album or maybe even a One Direction song. And I kept thinking about that left and right.

They're lasers on I should have kissed you. Yeah. And you love them. But the lasers were overused. Yeah, no, no. You can't go back to the laser button too often. otherwise it loses its novelty. They are smashing the laser button all over this thing.

Well, I wish they would stay away from the laser button. I wish they would stay away from the auto tune and sort of vocal changes. Look, every rose has its thorn. There's this one moment after the chorus where she goes, yeah, it does. Yeah, no, that's tough. That one is tough. That's when I checked out. That's when I was like, okay, I'm out. No, I agree with you on the, yeah, it does. I just amidst all of, they're still filtering her voice,

they're still pulling some tricks. Relative to most of these songs, that is closer to Miley Cyrus singing a classic song. But why is it fourth? Like, why did they decide this is the one? We're going to do two rock mafia watermark logo signature DJ Khalid songs. And then we're going to do every rose has a. it's thorn. I think Miley wanted to do

every rose has his thorn. And that of all the things that she wanted to do that they were denying, this is the one thing they said yes to. Yeah, because why not? Like, what's the harm? I still think the sequencing, like putting it forth. There's a lot of weird sequencing on this

because each one of the ballads and they don't always stay ballads, but they hit you like the biggest jump scare because it's so, like everything has been so electro dance pop. And then all of a sudden it's like the

song at the end with the organ. I've been stranded on a lonely street in the shadows. My heart beats for love? Yes. The organ stopped me

in my tracks. I mean, stay is the one that is this, to me, it's like big ballady. Yes. Again, also a jump scare.

But, but it's it's sort of buried. Like I think the best song in this album is Scars. Oh, interesting. It's rock. It's a pretty big song. It's like it feels like there's some evanescence in this. It feels like Stevie Nick's singing an evanescence song or something. The chords coming out of the bridge on Scars are massive.

But it's a rock song and they've just, you know, introed me with, giving me this head fake on the synth pop late 2000 stuff. So it doesn't feel like it fits with the album. And while I love the song, and I also love the song that follows, I like Take Me Along a lot. It just those two songs to me feel so different

than the start of the album. Yeah. There's more of her in it. Like, Take Me Along is a sad song. Yeah. Really sad song. Like, definitely got to be a Nick Jonas-inspired song. I mean, I think the melody maybe is inspired by the Jonas Brothers song, Fly with me.

But she's like, that line, I'm bleeding tears is a pretty, like, that's a sad line. But these songs don't feel like they have any consistency with every rose has its thorn, with, you know, who owns my heart with can't be tamed. So it leaves you from an album perspective anyway. It feels very schizophrenic. It's interesting that you pulled those two songs out because I agree with you. They feel atonal with a lot of the rest of what's going on. I struggle with those two because on the one hand, all the filtering and the effects and the auto tune that they're doing with her voice on so many of these songs, they take a backseat on those two.

But they take a little bit of a backseat. They don't hit you over the head with it as much because her voice is much more buried as opposed to. to something like, you know, like Liberty Walk, they're messing with her instrument. But when that song starts, it's Miley Cyrus in your ear. And I felt very conflicted specifically about the two songs that you just mentioned, Scars and Take Me Along, because her voice is just buried. And I sort of come out feeling like I will take electropop distorted auto tune Miley Cyrus as long as it still kind of sounds like Miley Cyrus, more so than having her covered up.

So they didn't, I don't want to say they didn't work for me because I agree with you, the themes are a little bit more nuanced and the music is a little bit more interesting. I just, I felt very conflicted about the vocal versus some of the other content of those two. But those,

they did, those two specific songs that you just mentioned, they did stick out. they stick out. Yeah, I think the singing, yeah. I think the singing on the back part of scars is great. That to me felt reminiscent of some of her better vocal moments. But those are the two that I sort of cling to.

I mean, I don't know. Forgiveness and love? What's going on on that song? Forgiveness and love. It's like wings live and let die. You were young. It was an open book. Like, there's some country ballot in it.

Again, it feels a little out of place. Yeah, I am grateful for the fewer space lasers. I also think it's really funny on this completely, like, digitized collection of music that they create the sound of it being at a live show in front of a big crowd. It's like, you have half an idea. What if we just took some of that? Oh, the natural experience of being in front of an audience. and with an incredible performer and extrapolated some of those skills and abilities

onto the rest of this music, maybe then we would have something. I feel like I shouldn't like forgiveness and love. On some level, I kind of like want to take out my lighter and wave it back and forth. Okay. It's kind of fun.

It's kind of sweet. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's fine. It's fine. And, yeah, it's fine. I mean, it's just, you're not going to go back to it, though. I'm not going to go out and play that again. I'm not going to go back to it. But I want to tell you what I need to, like, shoot off into the sun.

But since we're doing categories, can I just ask a clarifying question first? How did you handle within the context of the categories? How did you handle party in the USA? I mean, it's the biggest hit and the best song. Totally. It just is. Of this, it's even harder to define it as an era because it's a year later. and so much had changed.

But I think it is the, it just looms large over this entire album. It's just that thing was so massive and big to follow it here was really hard. And the approach, given the scattered nature of the genre stuff and the music itself, it's hard to get out of the shadow

of party in the USA. Well, and a thing that came up to me as I was thinking about it was, the question of why party in the USA, which was originally a Jesse J song, and it was supposed to be about moving from the UK to Los Angeles, and they reworked the lyrics so that it was Nashville, and it felt true to Miley.

But in the ways that it's autobiographical for Miley, it could just as easily have been autobiographical for, not Hannah, but for Miley Stewart. And yet somehow, Party in the USA is not, feels disconnected from Hanley. Montana. And I'm trying to figure out why. And one answer is that it is produced by Dr. Luke. It is a different set of collaborators than she is pretty consistently at this point working with on most of her solo stuff. And so it just, it just has a different texture. Like,

even when it starts, the production around her vocal is so much more. sparse than the vast majority of this. So it just sounds distinct. But it has some of the autobiographical stuff that we hear in Hannah Montana. No, totally. Totally. That's why I'm asking the question is because you could make the argument that this tells the story of Hannah Montana just as closely as it tells the story of Miley Cyrus.

Why do I feel like that conflict isn't part of the song? Because the song kicks ass. And so you're forgetting it all. Okay, that's fair. I do also think that it's funny that she really rebelled against the JZ song of it all. I think the fact that she chooses a Britney song was on and a JZ song was on somehow puts it within the context of what would have been contemporary music, contemporary pop music, and not Disney pop music. Like she doesn't say a Joe Bro's song was on. It feels like she didn't have a whole lot of engagement with this song.

It almost feels like part in the USA just kind of happened because she had to get it out as the collab, and that it wasn't like it was brought to her. And that's probably at the time why she distanced a little bit herself from it. Yeah. She also, it also did spark one of the controversies of this era, which was that the first time she performed it was at the teen choice. Awards in 2009.

And they decided to do the set as like a trailer park. Is this the pole? This is the pole. She's standing on top of an ice cream truck in the trailer park. And her used to be on TikTok series video, which I know I've brought up a zillion times. But the one where she talks about this moment is so funny. Because she's talking and she's like, I was wearing a heel. I needed to balance.

And so she does have a pole so that she has something to hang on to because she's wearing a heel and she's like going around on top of his ice cream truck. And it creates this like whole kerfuffle over whether she was pole dancing. Again, the example she's setting to children. Like people just go cuckoo for cocoa pubs over this performance. Imagine having to live like. that. No, it's totally wacky. And there's this whole, like, is she going to be the next Britney? Which at the time especially, I think was meant very negatively. And, you know, she posts something on Twitter. She's like, for all the people calling me the next Britney, thank you. I couldn't ask for a

better compliment. So, you know, she's got a good comeback for it. But it's, it's, again, it's like the extracurricular stuff is doing a lot more to create this. between Miley and Hannah than the music itself is. There is, you've pointed out something that is a little bit different about her kind of fame, right? There are child stars

who get lots of attention, and I think we've said it frequently on this podcast, that, you know, the human brain just does not chemically wired to handle that level of worship. But in her case, it's layered with this, the scrutiny from a company that is very concerned about its image in Disney. And I think the Disney moms, Santa Montana moms themselves, who at this point in time are going through the, what is oftentimes as a parent, the painful experience of your children rebelling against you inside the house. and so to see Miley doing it live and maybe even encouraging their own children to break away from their mothers in the natural, that's just natural evolution, ladies and gentlemen, but like it's hard.

So such that they're ready to nitpick and criticize things that maybe have no meaning at all. It's just when she walked outside, small physical gestures that meant nothing could trigger international incidents. And that's the level of fame. and piss off, you know, moms and corporations. There just aren't very many people who've had to balance that on their shoulders. Brittany did not have, Britney showed up as the, you know, wearing the schoolgirl outfit. And that started the, is it too over-sexualized conversation started out of the gate? But she didn't have the fortunes of a Fortune 500 company on her shoulders in the same way.

Right. And she didn't have a bunch of moms who, you know, were feeling betrayed maybe or acting out their own issues as their children grew up dragging on her. I just don't think any of her, and even her other Disney peers just didn't have that same. I mean, Brittany was one for sure, but they just didn't have that same level of pressure and scrutiny. And also, I mean, in addition to the actual the parents and people commenting in that way, like the tabloids ate this stuff up right like none of this would be as big of a deal if the New York Post at all were not running headline after headline that's like Miley Cyrus stripper pole it's like it's a fucking ice cream truck like what is wrong with you people but again this was sort of derogir in terms of how these quasi you know provocative moments read to a lot of people I think it would come across very differently now, but this wasn't released now.

There's an amazing Jezebel essay that I read while I was like reminiscing about this of this woman who, you know, to your point, people do emulate celebrities that they're interested in. Miley, I guess said it wasn't pot. It was Solvia, which is a different plane. that I was acquainting myself with the specifics of when I found this essay. What do you mean? Yeah, no, not that way. Did you hit the bong before this episode? I did not hit the bong before the pod.

I did not hit the bong before the pod, I swear. There is this Jezebel essay where this woman was like, I tried Sahlvia because Miley Cyrus did. Oh, my God. And she hallucinated that like everyone was trying to kill. Well, you would forgive Miley being sober and feeling that way, because at times it seems to, it must have felt that way at times for sure. But I am interested, because like cannabis becomes a central theme to Miley in the 2010s. And I do wonder how much of that particular episode, again,

she's pushing back against people telling her that she shouldn't be doing something or that she should be doing something. And so she just sort of goes all in on the weed situation for a while, doesn't she? Yeah, which again, like, somebody smoking some pot now, not really meriting a comment. At the time, for a Disney star, big fucking deal. Like, we are, like, minutes removed from the Jonas Brothers purity rings. Like, I think that this stuff was so...

marketed that we almost forget how lowercase the conservative the ethos of those Disney stars really was and how easily they were treated as like rebels and, you know, they were throwing their lives away if they stepped outside of those bounds. I put, you know, and in some ways I hate to say it, but I do think that it is true. I put Dr. Luke down as most important collaborator. Oh, really? Yeah. Because I think, you know, I think party in the USA has his signature.

And I think for this era, the fact that that song existed is ultimately more important than anything that happened on Can Be Tamed. I do how everything. that, you know, he looped in Kesha for, to work a little bit on the EP in general. Kesha is not a writer, but is a very clear influence, however, on the song Permanent December. Yes. This is the one that I need to shoot into the sun. Oh, really?

Because she's just the tick. Talk impersonation is so obvious. Before I leave, brush my teeth with a bottle of jack. Because when I leave for the night, I ain't coming back. Yeah. And it's like- It's Kesha combined with like girls by JZ or something. Totally.

I got this French chick that love the French kids. She thinks she's mowed Derek where a hair and a twist. Totally. but it is unfortunately it is not it is not TikTok it is not Kesha the I've been to New York

been to L.A and to Baton Rouge in the exact same cadence of TikTok is just tough the line without my baby I go crazy and I've just got to scream again like it is one thing to do a cover

it is another to do an impersonation and just have it not land. And unfortunately, I cannot handle this song. There's part of the silliness. Yeah, it's fine. I mean, look, I think this album, generally speaking,

should be shot into the sun because I'm mad about it, as you can tell. Because I think she deserved better in this moment and whatever. But I don't know. I guess, yeah, okay, I understand why you pick that one.

That's fine. Ejected. Like, for me, it was every rose has its thorn. because if we're going to be ridiculous, let's just be ridiculous and not do blatant covers. I don't, I really don't agree. I like the cover.

I put this down in history as the first, like, really successful cover on a Miley record. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I, I was able to enjoy scars. I was able to enjoy take me along. Although, like, by the way,

she doesn't even say that line in the song. She says take me with you She never says take me along That drives me fucking bananas Like I can't understand It does give you the impression That there was a lot of like Oh you know

So and so is in town For a writing session While Miley is at this tour stop Let's get a few hours in here Okay we'll stop here Oh we got to name the song What was that lyric? Take me along take me again

Take me with you And then they just do it there wasn't like an executive producer oversight on this. Well, I think technically the executive producer on this record is her mom. Oh, boy. Can I talk to you about the song, two more lonely people? I don't have a category for it. It doesn't belong anywhere, but I just need to talk to you about it.

Because this is the most one-direction-ass song I've ever heard in my entire life. Fair. Like, I don't, it. And this was certainly their era. But you just hear, and they had the space lasers, as we're talking about, but the sort of back and forth of, you know, you have the guitar strumming against the very digital sounds that are the rest of the arrangement. It's a much brighter song. It is very bright. I have to say, I think if this had been a One Direction song, it would have, like, totally smashed.

Well, it, the reason to me that it sounds a little bit like a One Direction song is because One Direction borrowed lots of. stuff from 70s and 80s. And this song, to me, sounds like nothing's going to stop us now by Starship. Ah, okay. And so that, I agree with you that it could have been slotted into the One Direction catalog. It's, yeah, I mean, it's like this, to me, it feels like a breath of fresh air because I get that guitar, I get that guitar strum.

I need to feel your heartbeat when you say you love me. And it's, it just, it feels a little bit more upbeat and a little brighter. I can't be tamed as a dark ass song. Who owns my heart? Liberty Walk. Those are like dark, minor sort of brooding song. I mean, not a surprise that she's looking the way that she does on this cover. She's got the midriff.

She's got the dark scowl. She's got the dark hair staring you down. And I, so I buy the first three songs like they kind of, and even the fourth, sit in with that imagery. Two more lonely people feels a little bit of a departure from that. And then it gets followed with forgiveness and love. And then I'm just confused.

Because from there you got the Kesha song and then, okay, stay. And then, oh, I'm in on scars and take me along. And then we're back on robot. I'm not your robot. I'm just me. More defiance, right? Is this directed at her dad or Disney or who's, you know, anyway?

I think it's all Disney. I just, like, I need to. That's why they were my most important collaborator. Okay. Okay. Because of the, I'm, they define the sound of the record and it also gives her this thing that clearly, lyrically, and she gave so many interviews where she basically said, I don't really stand by the music, but I do stand by the message and the lyrics. And it gives her the thing that at least in that way she is pushing against. Yeah. And I don't think they really collaborated much on this album because I think they wanted to distance themselves from it in the same way that she did a bit. I don't think they like the cover art. I don't think they like the messaging of this record.

And I think probably if they listened to it, it just felt like just enough of a departure from something that crushed like Party in the USA that I don't know. It just feels like, yeah, I think that they are that, they're the underlying force that is creating the negative, you know, the magnetic push away from from everything she's trying to do on this album.

Everything is either incredibly Disney core or an obvious rebellion of it. I think probably that's why some of this feels a little bit like you're ping ponging between styles and you're confused and it's inconsistent in that way because I think it's in conflict with itself. And like she closes this thing with my heart's beats for love, which I think might be her first gay anthem.

Oh. Okay. Talk to me more about this. That missed me. I like this. I think it's just that at some point she said this was maybe about or for her hairdresser who was gay. And that she was sort of making the point that love is what it is. That's lovely.

Wow. I didn't know that lore. important. I also think, so if that's an interesting note to end the album on then with that context, and then I also think the fact that it comes after Robot, which is not a song that musically I enjoy, but I do think that stand here, sell this and hit your mark, I would scream, but I'm just this hollow shell. Like that is a notable lyric. Yeah.

That is a pretty. blunt assessment of how she felt about the Disney of it all. And in some ways, like, you know, to your point about the lack of collaboration, there's some stuff here where you have to imagine that they were like, nope, you've got to do it this way. And then there's some stuff where maybe they're, because, you know, they're increasingly sort of at odds, it was just like, ah, whatever, can't we just be done with this?

because I'm almost surprised that that made the album. Like, I just, I think that is a very stark assessment of how negative she felt about a lot of it. We all know couples that should not be together and they fight a lot. And at some point, it's like, you just need to leave. Like, stop talking, stop arguing. And at this point, we're, however many songs into the album,

however many songs into the, she's breaking out, breaking away. They need to break the fuck up and stop arguing. That's like giving me robot at the end of this. I was like, it's enough already. I'm done. Go. Break up.

Pack up the bags. Call the car. Get in the car and get the fuck out. And that's what she's about to do. So what is your next album appetizer? Where did you go on this? Mine is really weird. What sounds like bangers to you?

It's not going to help you. Mine's funny. Okay. Mine is the 2010 Miley Cyrus classic goodbye Twitter, which is a rap. I think you have to call it a rap that Miley wrote and recorded from her tour bus where she says, and I hope that instead of me saying this, Kyle, will splice this in so that no one has to hear my froggy-ass voice doing this. But she goes, yeah, the rumors are true. I deleted my Twitter.

Yeah, the rumors are true. I deleted my Twitter. Huh. Can you believe it? I got two, two million. And she has this whole, this whole like rap about how she wants her private life back. And she's offline.

She's off Twitter. She's not going to tell people what's going on with her anymore. But on some level, she is, she is, She is experimenting with this, this rap cadence. And that is undeniably the direction that she will ultimately go in. And therefore, I do not take anything from this album as the next album appetizer. But goodbye Twitter, I think held held the keys to where we were going to go. Great.

Let's go with that. You're so welcome. You don't think there's anything. You don't think there's anything. I don't. I think this is like, we're just fulfilling the contract. You could make an argument that there's some of the Kesha, some of the sort of like white girl rapping that happens on permanent December

is in some ways indicative of some stuff that's to come. Globally, I do agree with you. I think this is, we have to fulfill the contract, and then we're going to take a breather and come back doing something different. This shit was mailed in with a rock mafia stamp. It's quite that bad, but I agree that it doesn't seem like there was the most creative energy going on in the room. I mean, look, I don't think there is a single song from this album that would make the 2025 Miley Cyrus tour list, right? You really don't like Can't Be Tamed.

It's fine. I don't mind Can't be Tamed. Actually, in my head, I like Can't Be Tamed more. than I did when I was re-listening to it. But I still like it. So you think Campitamed makes the tour list, set list? I think it could. I actually don't think that it will,

but I think it could. And I also think that, actually think the attitude of that song is pretty fun. And if it was on tour and it was like actual Miley and not weird auto-tuned Miley, I might like it even more.

So I wouldn't mind. I would actually, I would love to hear Can't Be Tamed Live. Yes, I'm, I'm, I'm planting my flag on that. Okay. Well, that's fine.

Do you have a peak, Miley? Um, I mean, to me, the peak Miley is, is this, this thing that I just talked about before, which is like,

I think she has this pattern sometimes of releasing massive songs and then following it up with things that don't go as well. Sure. Sure. And this is maybe the continuation of that through this period. And again, I attribute some of it to just like real confusion and branding for me.

But I also don't, it's not like a flaw. Like there, you can't release a million number one songs all in a row. It just doesn't happen. But this, that is what I saw. You have dug out things that, I mean, maybe it was this, maybe it was the pole on the, on the ice truck. I don't know. What is peak Miley for you? I mean, the poll on the ice cream truck certainly could have been it.

Even the tweet about the response, this was before deleting her Twitter, about saying thank you to anyone comparing her to Brittany. I think that's a fun, Miley moment. I do think on the 10 year anniversary of the bong video,

she posted it on her Instagram and captioned it. Happy 10 year anniversary to the groundbreaking video of a teenager smoking a and saying dumb shit to their friends. Then in parentheses, not sure the director of this fine film should be considered a friend,

but dot, dot, dot. And I think that's it. Like, she gets betrayed repeatedly by people in her inner circle. Yeah. That's why I don't like the rock mafia shit. Well, so hold on, hold on, hold on, though. Time really flew by.

I remember this like it was yesterday. Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. J.K., I don't remember shit because I was fucked the hell up. Hashtag, yes, it really was, salvia hashtag if you find weed that does this to you share. I love her. I love my leave. I do too. I mean, look, and that is it in a nutshell, isn't it? There was, like, that's who she is. She just wants to say whatever the fuck she wants.

And she couldn't say whatever the fuck she wants in this situation. So this really marks the end of an era of constraint. And from here going forward, she is accountable and responsible for all of it. And some of it, 10 years later, she's going to make fun of herself for her and be, you know, I think self-aware enough to know she was going through some stuff. But I also think that she's really, like, I love that she understands that she didn't fuck up. Like, I, I love that she, I think it's really admirable that she has escaped that vortex with what seems like a lot of clarity about the fact that a lot of these quote-unquote controversies were bullshit.

And I think that's really hard to do. It is really hard to not internalize when there's a bagillion tabloids and bloggers and whatever saying that you are setting a bad example for the children of America and the downfall of the universe is going to be your fault to not come away with like a serious complex about that. And I think the fact that she jokes about it like this is just really like, I find it sort of wonderful because it just seems like,

She has really good perspective on it. And as we know, it is really hard to be a child star and come out even remotely okay. Yeah. I don't know that there's any other way to process it other than to like disavow ownership of the problems that it created for somebody she's never met. And who wasn't direct, you know, I think you just have to say it's, I'm sorry for you. There's enough I'm sure she's apologized for in her life. I think you're right that she is nothing. if not unapologetic for what she does.

And just to understand that a teenager smoking a bong is not particularly revolutionary or a thing that hasn't happened before and will happen again and the world is going to keep turning on taxes. So go Miley. That's my peak Miley. Do you have best lyric? I mean, I think it's don't live a lie

right off the beginning of Liberty Walk. Because I think that's really what is at the essence and core of what's going on for her in this moment. There are some other parts around I love the bleeding tears line, but there's not a whole lot on this. Again, this feels like I'm in the other room and the people are fighting. I can hear it through the wall and I just want them to stop and leave. It's so unhealthy. This is toxic. Can we be done with this?

My version of conflict is is sprouting through listening to this music. I think she would have been done with it if she could have been done with it. I think she was contractually obligated to not be done with it yet. Well, it's time to move on.

I like those picks. I really was gripped by the Sell this hit your mark. I would scream, but I'm just this hollow shell from Robot. I think that's very notable. I do think, and I hate to just keep picking party

in the USA. but I think that this stretch is about party in the USA and it is canon. With a dream in my cardigan is indelible. It's a perfect line. It is how those two things are so perfect together and so unforgettable together. She has her dream and she has her cardigan.

Like, it's essential. It's essential to the song that those were the two items that she has with her as she hopped off the plane at LAX famously as she did. It's a great song. I'm thankful for it even if we had to endure some of this stuff to get there. I'm so sorry that happened to you. All right. I mean, we got to grade it. Where are you?

So I gave party in the USA an unequivocal A-plus. and I gave Can't Be Tamed AC. Yes, that's where I am too. I am too, because I think you actually made a really good point at the beginning. Good job by you, which is that there's nothing on here that's truly awful. No, because Miley Cyrus is singing it. And like, again, it's a blessing and a curse because they can get away with a lot and probably more than they should. Yeah, and there's a lot of talented people working on this.

Totally. It's just meh. And it's not just that it's me. It's that she was capable of a lot more than got delivered here. There's no shit. It's not like a, you know, there's no woman's world on this. But there's also, again, there's no party in the USA breakthrough, breakout. It just is kind of meh.

And she is like whatever the opposite of men is. is that's Miley. Yeah. Yeah. You can make, Miley Cyrus has made like commercial smash hit. Again, you're going to hear it at every wedding reception you go to for the rest of your life. Like she has made those songs.

And Miley Cyrus has made some weird as fuck music that like no one really listens to. But it is like exists as this amazing artifact. And this is somehow neither. And it's pretty rare that she does something that's that, sort of isn't notable in either one of those ways. And it just really, it's not the first edge of the forest album, but it really is the ultimate Miley edge of the forest album. I think that is not for lack of her own personal creativity or desire to go into a new direction.

She just owed them an album. She owed them another album. And then she was going to be able to take a break and go in another direction and go in the direction that she wanted to go in and find some new collaborators and be herself in a different way. And, you know, maybe... She's never going to bore us again. She's never going to bore us again.

And that's maybe a good place to leave this because next week we're going to be back and we're going to get to talk about bangers, which is going to be a really interesting conversation. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Preciati. He is Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to the fabulous Kai McMullen

for producing this episode. And to you for listening. We'll talk to you next week.