Every Single Album - 'Don't Forget Me' | Every Single Album: Maggie Rogers

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

Nora and Nathan are here to break down the third album from Maggie Rogers, 'Don't Forget Me.' They talk about how the fact that the album was written over the course of five days impacted its sound (1:00), how she's moved away from the electronic sounds of 'Heard It In A Past Life' and toward the sounds of Linda Rondstadt and Sheryl Crow (32:05), and how her friendships play a major role on this record (48:01). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, can I talk to you? Over 25 years ago, on September 29, 1999, we watched a brainy girl with curly hair drop everything to follow a guy she only kind of knew all the way to college. And so began Felicity. My name is Juliet Litman, and I'm a Felicity Superfan. Join me, Amanda Foreman, who you may know better as Megan, the roommate, and Greg Grunberg, who you may also know as Sean Blunberg,

as the three of us revisit our favorite moments from the show and talk to the people who help shape it. Listen now to Dear Felicity on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Brinciotti and I am joined as always by Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, happy Maggie Rogers Day. Happy Maggie Rogers Day. I mean, Sabrina Carpenter is putting out a single.

Billy just announced her album. They're all trying to step on each other. But I am fired up to talk about Maggie Rogers. I have been excited about this album because you and I have been listening to it for a long time. right now. Yes. So happy Maggie Rogers Day. Happy Maggie Rogers night. I think that we should start, as we often do with a little bit of context, which is that you and I have been listening to this album for a little bit at this point. And we are lucky to be able to put this album out right as Don't Forget Me, gets dropped and released and everybody gets a chance to go enjoy it. Because,

Nathan, I know you have some background with this. You have some context. You are both a Maggie fan. And also, you've crossed paths with her, I believe. Tell us about your Maggie Rogers journey. Yeah, well, my Maggie Rogers journey started long before I got to know her a little bit, but it started, I think, with a lot of people's, which was with the Farrell video. Wow. I have zero, zero, zero notes for that. from when she was at the Clive Davis School at NYU Tish

and presented her song to Forell. And just if you have not watched that video, you are missing out because it is the, everything that's beautiful about music and the discovery of something and just watching someone who has been in the studio with so many different artists and heard so much music over the course of his life,

fall in love instantaneously. and watching her authentically sheepish and unsure where to even place her gaze because she's introducing art to somebody who she respects. That was my initial initiation into the world of Maggie. And then fast forward to now... Can I stop you for one second just to share that I rewatched that video the other day in preparation for this?

And one thing that I had forgotten about or just didn't initially appreciate was that no one knew Ferell was coming to class. It's wild. No warning. That is the most NYU bullshit I've ever heard of just like showing up on your final presentation day. And all of a sudden, not only are you presenting like this product of your own emotion and feeling. And I have a feeling the Venn diagram of people who have seen this video and know the story and who are listening to this podcast is a circle.

But just in case, Maggie Rogers presents her song, Alaska. The idea of just whoever her professor was bombarding this poor class. without having to share this with Ferell Williams. It's just absolutely ridiculous. And I had not appreciated that initially when I had seen that video as I think so many of us did as an initial introduction to her.

And she's gotten to know him now, but for a long time, as that video sort of created her fame and ultimately propelled, heard it in a past life to debut at number two, everybody said, well, are you friends with him? And she's like, no, I'm not friends with him.

That was just like a one- off. What you saw was what we, you know, what we got. There was no follow-up or it's not like he kept texting or anyway. She's, she obviously has spent a little more time with him at this point. So all's well that ends well. Well, so keep going. Keep letting us know sort of how you've been a fan and have worked in conjunction with this person and since seeing that Farrill video where that took you. Yeah. I mean, it took me just, again, as if. fan to hurt it in a past life, and she had nomination for Best New Artist at the Grammys, and I think that that album is magic in a bottle, and we can talk more about it.

Interestingly, produced by our friend Greg Kirsten, who did a lot of the Adele stuff, Nora. There's some total overlap between a bunch of the artists that we talk about and the producers who they work with, and I'm sure that that's not a complete surprise. But one thing led to another, and, my company Firebird is partners with her manager. And so she's part of our ecosystem and part of our family and we get to work every day helping to support her. So probably good context to have because I'm definitely biased as I come in to this album. But I will say that when we first started working with her, it was shortly after surrender came out. And I think in 2022, when that album

dropped, there was a lot of anticipation, obviously, it had been like three years since heard it in a past life. And man, I have to say that out of the gates, that album did not land with a lot of people. And there was probably a moment, and I don't speak for Maggie, but I would imagine there was a moment where there was, whoa, now what happens? And what's fascinating about the journey from then to now, and you'll pardon the pun as we start to talk about one of the songs on this album on this new album in a minute

called If Now was Then. But from then to now, Maggie went out on the road and she just started playing. And the songs from Surrender are badass live. A song like Wampart. And her fan base

is passionate enough that they're going to come out and support her no matter what she does. You know, she went and she was frustrated with the ticketing fees as a former CEO of Ticketmaster. I can certainly, that's not the first time that I've heard that. But, you know, Maggie went out and literally in person was standing in line with fans who were buying tickets from the box office without fees. Like, she always goes out into it and does the work. And it created a buzz about the tour where it just felt like her community of fans. And she has a community that is all about her came together and they discovered that album through the course of

that tour and I think the songs took on a new life and I don't think it's then a surprise that this album and really the intent of this album as she sat down with Ian Fitchick who as we talked about last week on Casey Musgraves he recorded all of that record with Casey and also did Golden Hour did deeper well He's becoming the Jack Antonoff of the slightly more folk country girlies. He is. He is. And I don't mind it because I think this was a flash session where she reached out to him, DM'd him, and they did this entire record in five days. And the point of it for him anyway was to try to capture there was a gap between heard it in a past life, which has a lot of electronic, sort of very influenced by. her time in clubs in Berlin, coupled with her love of folk and being a banjo player, it's sort of this wonderful mashup. Surrender was more of a sort of driving rock record a little bit.

Right. You lose the sort of synth pop, bleep bloop. Yeah. And Ian really wanted to see if he could unify these two things, which was her recorded music and her live show, which I have to be honest, it took me a long time before I saw Maggie. And when I first went to see Maggie, it was totally different than I thought. I mean, the last show, was more of a pink pop show, meaning like pink the artist, not because she's flying around on, you know, doing acrobat stunts and stuff. That's not what she was doing.

Although she does kind of, and I mean this in such a positive way, she kind of flails. Absolutely she flails. But she's like, there's this like big persona and confidence to her that live, I just didn't expect to see how big she is as a personality on the,

the stage because behind the scenes, she's much more reserved and her voice can at times feel delicate and some of her songwriting is very intimate. And so that was something that was really special that I think Ian noticed himself and they tried to capture on this record. I mean, there's a lot of this stuff. You cannot make a record like this in five days unless you're doing a lot of first take. Keep the energy. Let's get it right. You know, a writing session that I think in a lot of ways reinvigorated Maggie, as we'll talk about, she's still writing. They're still working, even though this album is done. And I think it inspired her to come back to a place of creativity. And we should also say, Nora, that between past life and this album, don't forget me,

was surrender for sure. But she went to divinity school at Harvard. And she did that really specifically, I think, because she was trying to figure out how to balance being like a normal human being who is famous and creating this sort of creative space for herself in a world in which she's talked about, by some of her fan base, she's treated, if not as a deity, pretty close, right? The sort of hero, idol worship that we all have

of the musical stars who create the soundtracks of our life, I think was hard for Maggie, took a lot for a kid who grew up in rural Maryland and spends a lot of time in rural Maine to absorb that. And so she turned to schooling to try to help create that creative space and it feels like with this record

and on a go-forward basis, she's been reinvigorated. The NYU alum turned artist whose thesis I would most like to get a hold of is Lady Gaga's NYU thesis on David Hurst. But Maggie's grad thesis on it was like the nature of pop stardom and its relationship with religiosity and the spirituality of group gatherings.

I've read the title of it somewhere, so I'm paraphrasing, but I don't have it in front of me right now. That's a close second. I would be interested. Well, it was surrender. And her performance at Coachella last year was part of the presentation of her thesis. So she's literally sort of taken this academia and turned it into. performance art. It's very cool. So if I can give you my own sort of background here, I want to know how you discovered Maggie, because you were excited when I suggested that we do the Maggie record,

and we have not compared notes on why this was exciting for you. Well, so it's funny. It's funny that you thought that it was, that I seemed excited, and I'm glad it came across that way. And I was excited because I'm excited when we do anything, and I'm really interested in Maggie Rogers, and I love a lot of her work. But I do wonder if you said, that because I was maybe overcompensating a little bit. Okay. Because here's the deal. It's new deal.

You know, we're always very honest with each other. There was 10% of me that was a little nervous about doing this. Okay. Because I know that you have a working relationship with her. I know that you are also a huge and passionate fan of this woman. I have considered myself. I've followed Maggie Rogers since, you know, I too saw the forever. Alaska video sort of before I knew her as an artist,

but have paid attention since the first album. And I have always been a huge admirer of her. But it's been a little bit more, like, academic is maybe not the right word. It's always been something where I was admiring more than I was truly, like, loving or moved. Yeah. And I think I connect.

in a way that was sort of aesthetic. And I thought, oh, these songs, they sound cool. I hear the connection between, you know, the dance clubs of Berlin and natural samples coming from the woods. Like, I get the point of the project and I get it and I'm interested in it. And it's certainly in my wheelhouse. And the live show portion of that, I've seen her. And I can also tell you that I think 90% of my friend.

have seen Maggie Rogers on tour at some point, have seen a Maggie Rogers live show, which is just a byproduct of the fact that, to your point, she really went out and did it for a long time. So she's really felt like in a lot of sandboxes that I'm interested in. And I've really appreciated her work. But there's been something a little bit like,

I'm just not totally clicking with this. A degree removed. Yeah. And I wondered how that would come across if it was something that you cared about. And I was a little bit like, I want to get it, but I don't. It's just like maybe a little too new agey for me or something. Yeah.

And I got to tell you, I clicked almost instantly with this album. And I have such a clearer sense of who she is as a person. Maybe. I mean, I don't know, you know, but like I have an idea of who I think that is. Yeah. In a way that's compelling to me after hearing this collection of songs. And it really moved me. And I really was like fist bumping.

Not that we couldn't have navigated it if I didn't. like it or if it didn't quite work for me and I would have told you the truth. We've done this before. But I was just like, I was like, what am I going to do if I don't like the album? And I really like this album, Nathan. Okay. Well, that makes me super excited. I'm so, I'm even happier that that's the story that you come to this from. I mean, Maggie is in a tough spot as an artist because she was thrust unknowingly into people's faces as an artist as she was, right? This moment of

unbelievable shyness and vulnerability. And as so many people fell in love with her, authenticity. But in some ways, I think that can be a constraint for Maggie because people just want her, right? And it makes it hard for her to put on a mask, right, in the way that so many of these other pop girls can go through eras. Taylor Swift, yes, there's an authenticity to Taylor. But I mean, you know, this past week, she just reframed her. entire catalog along the five stages of grief. I mean, come on. She can do whatever she wants, but she gets to wear a lot of masks, right? Maggie started being this person that people connected with foundationally, and it makes it harder for her to stray from that. I suspect, I suspect. And I think

that's what a lot of the Divinity School work was about, just trying to create enough space for her to maintain that authenticity, but also be an artist that wears different. She's a lot of shades, right? Her synesthesia probably would see a color in the way that we're talking about this. But I think that's actually a really interesting challenge. And what I think is lovely about this record is what you just said. It's just her. Yeah. No, I mean, it struck me, it struck me to hear that in the record, but it also struck me that, you know, there's a New Yorker profile of her talking about the making of this record out that by the time this comes out It'll be a few days old.

And it's really, she's great in it and it's interesting and you learn a lot. And I would encourage anybody to go read it. And I'm not saying that this is bad by the author or anything. It just, the Feral thing is the second paragraph. Yeah. Like, it's just crazy how long of a tale that video has had. And I think it's a story of her stardom. And it's hard to shake, isn't it?

And she didn't choose that, right? Like, she did not choose that that was to be the story. of her stardom and the sort of origin story of her career. And it also, I mean, heard it in a past life of the two prior albums, I'm partial to hurt it in a past life over surrender. That album, when I say that there was like just a little bit of remove for me, I do really like it. But I think that it became weirdly controversial for people.

And when I say controversial, I mean for people who obsess about like, indie pop folk artists, which is a subset of people. But for those people, it became weirdly controversial because it was like, she was bridging these identities of this woman who loves to be in the woods

and who loves to be connected with the natural world and also cares deeply and authentically about her art. And who had this origin story where it seemed like, Like it just came out of nowhere. Like it was magic or something. And then people start to re-contextualize it as, okay, well, she's at the Clive Davis program at NYU Tish, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And it's Pharrell Williams. And she's in, like, and I think that's sort of odd and unfair. And like, why can't she want to go on a hike and also understand that her art is also a career and that those are two things that have to be sort of connected in some way, shape, or form or are perfectly fine. to be connected. And so it just, it, I think I knew how long of a tale that experience had had, but it maybe hadn't fully like clicked for me. Just how big of a thing hanging over her that had been. And maybe I hear, maybe part of what I like so much in, in this album is a little bit of getting past that and just being like, oh, I'm going to do this on my own terms and show you a

bit of myself, even though not all of these stories are about her. So I had a really good time with it. Do you want to kick things off? This is going to be another example of we're talking about an album so fresh that Biggest hit is a little bit challenging. Don't forget me. The title track is going to be the one with the big head start. I'll ask you. sort of to fill out this category.

Is there anything else that you feel like is relevant or you want to say about sort of the aims of the album, the stakes and the goals and who she's trying to reach with it? No, I don't know that she's got a vision for that. I think she just wanted to make a great record. In terms of biggest hit, I think, don't forget me, I wanted it to be, don't forget me. but I think when this record comes out,

there's going to be a focus on the song The Kill. And I think it's going to be the kill. Wow. I really do. I think... Okay, talk to me. Yeah. I just, that song is going to translate live in ways that...

I mean, it's just, it's badass. Everything from the sort of tension in a relationship with somebody when the other person isn't all the way in and the imagery of the shoes you laid out for me from the ones who came before. Yeah, it's a good line. And just sort of the ongoing groove of that song is,

I think it's going to set, and we'll see. But they started with Don't Forget Me. I think it's a really big song. And she put it out on Instagram with her just playing piano. I guess it was late last year. And man, I was so excited for it. I love this song on the record. I really do.

I would say two things. One is I wanted to have a huge vocal moment at the end of Don't Forget Me. And instead, for whatever reason, the choice that they made was to sort of retreat with a soft end. Don't forget me. I felt like she could have had a big, like, high booming, don't forget me and just like nail it because she's capable of doing that. that. And I just came away feeling like, I love the song. I didn't think the arrangement of the song totally did justice to it. It's still great and it sits with me and the people in my house sing it all the time and I have the melodies. Like, it's a beautiful song. But the solo piano version

of Don't Forget Me was absolutely stunning. And I think there's a ton of great lines, wreck my Sundays. I love, I don't know. How did you feel about Don't Forget Me? Yeah. No, this is one of a couple songs that really, really moves me. And I just, look, one of the things that I just... Yeah, and I'm not sure that I could... I'm not sure that I could handle a big vocal moment at the end. I mean, there are, I think, three, I think is right, three songs in the album that the first time through just like,

just had me in tears. And what I found really moving about this album was just hearing it as a collection of songs about growing up and kind of recognizing, as you get a little bit older, the simultaneous joy and pain of only getting to live one life and just having to live your choices

and have your regrets and also have the things that you're proud of and your friendships and love and hoping. It just really was an emotional song for me. So I think that it really,

like as we talk about all of these artists who are having their Saturn return moment, this was a very effective version of that. And I have a feeling it'll resonate with a lot of people. I'm really interested in you going for the kill. I'm now trying to put myself in a place to kind of hear it in my head live because I think that would be really interesting.

I really like that song. I really enjoy it. I would not have pulled it for this category. Huh. Kind of at all. Even though I do really like it, I think what do you hear in for the kill meaning? in that song. You were going in for the kill.

I mean, I think it's getting your own needs met without necessarily being all the way in to meet somebody else's. Okay. All right. And I love the line that's in there. It's just this sort of, you know, she plays both sides of it. In one case, she's the killer.

In the other case, he's the killer. But in both cases, it's sort of this tension of, we're in it, we're doing the things, you know, we're wearing, each other's clothes, but one of us is not all the way there, but we're getting our needs met. And that's the sort of sinister nature to it. And that's how the shuffle of the groove feels to me. It's how the chord progression feels to me. I don't know. I think she's going to crush this live. Even lyrically outside of that, like I love all of the different moments on that song where it's like,

you know that I know that and it has that back and forth and the duality of dynamics where either it's no one's fault or both people are a little at fault which I think she I give her a lot of credit for trying to do that

because in some ways you know she's talked about this album not as not as a breakup album quite so simply is that, but it has a lot of those themes and it has a lot of like looking back on a on a past relationship. And she's very willing to live in the messiness of that and also be a little bit

guilty herself. And it's easier to do it the other way. So I give her a lot of credit for it. I'm now very excited to hear this, this song live. May I ask you? Because the other song that they put out earlier, which would have been the other thing that I would have brought up is so sick of dreaming. Which is kind of her. that don't impress me much. It is. Or maybe, as we'll talk about her, we are never, ever getting back together. Yes.

Look, it was an interesting choice to put that one out. I think, look, if you think about her in a past life. It wasn't that interesting, even this song sounds like it belongs on the soundtrack to like a 2004 rom-com. It's like a, I don't know that it was that interesting of a choice. I think it's a great song that everyone is going to love. Yeah. Look, it could easily be like a Cheryl Crow song from Tuesday Night Music Club, right?

Right. And it is a great song. And that interlude, I think there was some consternation about whether she should be making fun of the Knicks. And would that turn people off? Always make fun of the Knicks. But to put it in, you know, the first record, heard it in a past life, had some, some bops, right? And it had some stuff that was a little bit more upbeat. And I think, don't forget me, which may be the best written song on the record, maybe with the one exception

that we'll talk about in my view, but don't forget me, it's not a banger. It's not a total bop, the way that they ended up producing the song, right? And so I think the reason that the kill is probably a focus from here is because that's a song that you could see across multiple formats of radio. Right. And it could be that So Sick of Dreaming could get there. But I think it's just such a fun, like it is so classic Maggie that they went with it. I still think, in my view, they have two quote unquote hits that are still in the bag. And that's the kill. And as we'll talk about it's if now was then. But so sick of dreaming, tell me the, like when she goes into the interlude, and it starts, so he calls me up.

I did. I did have a flashback. Did you have a complete? Wait a minute. So he calls me up 15 minutes before the reservation. And since he's got mixed tickets, so he's like, I still love you.

And I'm like, I mean, this is exhausting. I was like, hold on. Where did this come from? No, it's like,

it's when you, you get to the end of, of 1989 Taylor's version and your brain is so trained to think that it's going to be

the deluxe edition and you're just waiting for the voice memo to start. Yeah, no, I had like a Pavlovian response

to think she was about to be like, so he calls me up and he's like, I still love you and I'm like, this is exhausting. But of course.

But there is a parallel, Nora. Of course. There's no way that this isn't either consciously or subconsciously tied in.

I mean, when I heard it, I called her manager and I said, did she mean to do this or not? And he didn't, I don't know that he'd even made the connection in that moment because he's not as much of a Taylor Swift freak as you and I are. But I mean, Maggie. But Maggie Rogers, Tim McGraw cover, Maggie Tim McGraw cover Rogers knows what she's doing.

The best cover of a Taylor Swift song that exists. She knows what she's doing here, right? Yes. I think, I mean, I also, okay, I'm spoiling. some future categories. I think there are like 19 Easter eggs in here. I think the Nick, first of all, the Knicks Tickets thing, I'm pretty sure that's a sex in the city plot line.

I'm sorry. You should be. I'd box seats to a Yankee double header. Oh, damn. Who'd you take? But I really, I think there are just like 19 layers of doing bits and making references that all the girls are going to get. And it's really fun.

Yeah. And she's, and there's a, you know, you get definitely. a little bit of Shania here too like I'm waiting for her to say So you're Brad Pitt So you're Brad Pitt That don't impress me much

It's just so good Yeah It's a really really fun song This was the type of thing That made me Like it's a silly thing It's a bit, it's a joke She's like riffing

It felt lived in in a way and like sort of like visceral and funny and she felt like a person singing this song in a way that I was like oh this is this is the piece that I have missed from yeah maggie rogers and I just was like oh fuck very cool she's easy to fall in love with yeah it really it's what she's good at I think and to your point like it sounds like there's a bunch of like girl bat signals coming out of this song that I don't even get and by the way the Knicks lost. And by the way,

it's so funny. It's really good. Also, like... I think there was a conversation, you know, maybe from the label side, I think there was conversation about should we do a version without this? And I think it... I was like, dude, I think it totally makes the song,

and I think people are going to understand like she knows what she's doing with that. Also, like, the Knicks lose plenty. It's fine. It's just the Nix. They're having a good season. People are happy. I mean, you know, in the arc of history.

But, yes, that, you know, we don't know when the story took place. But there are those undertones, aren't there here? Like, if heard it in a past life made you go, wow, there's some electronic and some folk together, that's not this record. This record could be a Linda Ronstadt record. Or a Pat Benatar record. Or a Stevie Nick solo album. That's the vibe that you get out of this. Yeah, or like I get a lot of, I get a lot of Shania.

I get a lot of, maybe. I get plenty of Cheryl Crow. Yeah, a little bit of like Michelle Branch. There's a lot of like, we're really, we have really left most of our synth pop bleep bloops behind. And I have to imagine that that was in some ways the intent. although I do know the story of, which I think you referenced, that these were mostly first takes and were not necessarily all intended to be the final cuts, but then any time they tried to re-record, they felt like they lost something.

That's how it always goes. And so they ended up going with the originals. So there is something very, very raw and very off the cuff that I think sounds really good and comes through. and her voice is amazing and sounds so good. So it totally works. And so I don't know if that that lends itself to this being a much more sort of not in the barn. Like it's not a country album, but there's something very just sort of live band to it. Yeah.

For sure. If that was the intent, it is what they captured. I mean, do you think I am interested in obviously. that's like a little bit of a continuation of some of the evolution that she had on surrender, which was a little bit more rocky and some of that comes through here too. But the original Maggie Rogers concept had so much to do with like the club in Berlin. The club in Berlin is not really present on this album. No, no, it is not.

And listen, it's been five years since she put that record out. and even longer since she was actually in the club in Berlin. So it does feel like growth of an artist, but also like you can hear the influences that she's had as an artist, right? And she's almost more of like Joan Baez-Joney-Mitchell lineage than, I don't know, whatever your synth-pop star might be, right? She has these roots in Carol King. And it's too late.

Yeah, that come out on this record in really interesting ways that I think, again, because of the kind of artist that she is, it feels authentic and evolutionary, not like it's being lifted. So I think you hinted that there's another song in addition to the kill that you're pretty sweet on. So let's move to Best Song, and I'm hoping that you'll share that in this category.

Yeah, to me, it's if now was then. And I think it's the best song on the record. I love the regret and lament after a relationship is over, sort of during the demise. I think it's the best Maggie vocal performance on the album. I think the way her voice goes between thirds, this sort of classic Maggie trick. Here she's going from an A to a C sharp,

and her voice sort of breaks just a little bit on the high note. Like when she throws it up in the air, it sounds like. Exactly. And it's a technique that she uses across other songs. But here, this song just builds. It starts and you think you're just kind of listening to a little, just to kind of strip down acoustic song. And by the end of the song, there's huge voices, there's huge synths that I take it back, but I can't, I'm sorry. it's got some of the synths from Streets of Philadelphia by Springsteen. Like right as he comes out of the streets of Philadelphia in the chorus, there's some similar stuff that's happening. But this song doesn't feel at all like that song.

It just builds and builds and builds. And I, look, I heard it and I immediately, I stopped the first listen. I was driving down to San Diego in the morning early when I first got access to this and listened to it. And I stopped. and that's when I called it. I was like, this song. And yeah, this is the song. It's the song that I know that when Zach Bryan heard it, Zach Bryan told Maggie, that's the one. So I don't know where it's going to make its appearance.

They didn't obviously choose it as a single. It's a different direction, right? It's a different song than, don't forget me. It's a different song than so sick of dreaming. But, man, this one is the one for me that I can't, I just cannot get enough of it. You know what I reminded me was, I paused it in the middle and it was like, what song am I thinking of right now? Like, what am I having this reaction to? Nobody's Home by Avrilavine. Interesting.

Go back and it's more, there's a little bit in the music of it, but it's more just sort of vibe once it gets into the second half of the song and it picks up a little. I love this song. This is another one that in my notes, I wrote down,

so rom-com soundtrack vibes, which to me is high compliment. Yeah. So yeah, I, I, again, I'm fascinated, but not that surprised that we have reactions to slightly different songs. I really like if now was then, and I really like the kill.

I don't know that I would have flagged them in quite the same way, but I do think as I was filling out my own categories, this wasn't an album, and it's not, you know, this is a curated, she did this in five days. Right. There was editing here,

which we love. Yeah. So in some ways, I think this makes sense that there aren't huge, huge standouts and huge, like,

underperformers or whatever. There were just, there were a lot of songs that I considered for Best Song. To me, it ended up coming down to, don't forget me, never going home.

Wow. Made me weep. Wow. Like made me cry, tears out of my eyeballs. Tell me why. Again, I just like, I really, I love, and we'll get there, but the presence of her friends on the album and just the storytelling I felt was so perfectly evocative of, look, Maggie Roger and I. This is what happens with women and Maggie Raggy. Like she is instantly their best friend.

There's some like laser beam that connects and she is their best friend. That's the essence of the fan base around Maggie. She is two months older than me. So like recognize that there is. And also like we are, you know, not to I'm not going to compare myself to this woman. Yeah. And all of her accomplishments. But we were both like grew up in relatively rural places, moved to cities, like went to prep school.

Like there's. her worldview works for me in a lot of ways. And this was a song where I really heard that. Wow. Wow. Yeah, no, I just, I cried. Like, the idea of morning, but celebrating, like, your path is your path. Lipsick like a hero and swallow the fear down with my throat.

And, you know, there's pain in that and there's also a huge amount of joy in it. at the cusp of turning 30. I'm just telling you it works, okay? Nathan, it works. No, I believe you. I mean, it's a fascinating perspective. I heard the eye going into the chorus sounds a lot like the eye going into the chorus of So Sick of Dreaming, which felt like in the span of five days there's going to be little ideas and musical stuff that gets sprinkled across the record.

And I like it for that reason. but that's interesting that you had that that you had that reaction what else what else i by the way i agree with you i think in the aggregate don't forget me as the best written song on this record it just is a beautiful beautiful beautiful wonderful song period yeah the third one for me was so sick of dreaming okay and i really i mean yeah no i i if now is then definitely also there was probably a version of that list where it was four songs and it also had if now was that on it but those three for me were particularly sticky.

Yeah, I think there's a reason kill is four and if now as then was five. I mean, those are ones that sort of are in that meat section of the track five-y part of the album, almost like a baseball team lineup. But you get thrown a little bit because don't forget me's last. And so you think you're coming in for this soft landing. There's only 10 songs. It's pretty concise. But you think you're coming in for this soft landing.

And like you said, I mean, the eighth song in the record is never going home. Yeah, I just, I mean, it felt like a little moment of in some ways lightness, although it's not a, you know, there is there is sort of so much bittersweet in that. But the thing about I can hear my friends saying there's 10 seconds until it's time to go. Like that's a really. Yeah. That is a very visceral vignette. And it's also kind of a bop. Okay.

Fair enough. It's a chill bop. It's like a sweet bob. It's like a bob that's going to give you a little hug. It's a huggy bob. It's a huggy bob. You know, I'm struck by the fact that the album we talked about last week was recorded in the same place as this album by the same guy.

Electric Lady Studios. Yeah. There's an interesting, I mean, that place obviously is a magnet at this point. But I mean, this guy, Ian did the case. record, he co-produced and co-wrote Amen by Beyonce on Cowboy Carter. Yeah. So we've had a lot of overlap with him. And, you know, in hindsight, he's clearly got range. And it is interesting just the ways in which he, in all three of these cases, seems to have been able to connect with the artist and get the best out of her, whatever it was that she was trying to

create in that moment. But I would. will say, like, the melodies that come off of this record to me feel more interesting and developed and lyrically, the songs feel richer to me than, you know, than some of the things that Ian's worked on. Ian's worked on before. So this is, it feels, I'm speaking, I'm speaking largely of the Casey record, I guess. But I just found the sort of juxtaposition of these two couldn't have been recorded that too far apart, right? Yeah, I think that's right. You know, And it's hard to tell where did the melodies come from Maggie? Where did they come from Ian?

This is obviously like this is a person who has a huge songwriting background and is intimately involved. And I do think, I mean, you were talking about that vocal trick. It's not really a trick, but just when she throws a melody up and her voice reaches that sort of ethereal plane, to me that's very signature Maggie Rogers. I mean, that's, that's, it's all over Alaska. And I think it's something that to me sonically is a, a through line in all of her work that, you know, that's one of those things that I can hear and I could call out, oh, that's a Maggie Rogers song. And whoever, and I shouldn't say whoever was responsible as though there's a right answer.

they did this together very clearly when an album has so few people involved in it like it's a collaboration. They managed to get a lot of that all over this thing without it seeming overly intentional or overly bogged down. So there's clearly an understanding

of how to work with her voice and the melodies too. I found them interesting. I found them sticky. But especially it stood out to me that it seems like there was a real understanding of how to play to the strengths.

Do you bring up our friend Ian. I also should say that, I mean, Maggie seems to be a pretty good talent scout in some ways because I was revisiting some of the earliest coverage because I went down this rabbit hole of like, geez, like this for all thing was really like, that was intense. That was all anybody talked about with this woman for so long. Like, what was the deal? And so I was revisiting some early coverage. And she's worked with Kid Harpoon on her past two records. And there was a fair bit of like some guy named Kid Harpoon. Like, who's this guy? I don't know who this guy is.

Right. Who goes on to do Harry's record that wins album of the year. Yeah. So she's been early on some people before. So, you know, shout out to Ian. Yeah. Well, and, you know, she just, she's got a great connection with him, and they're going to continue to make more music, it appears. So that's really cool.

Do you bring this up because he's as most important collaborator? Yeah, I do. So I think in a sort of... Straight down the middle sense, that is objectively correct. But can I offer you another one here? Please do. Her friends. I mean, her friends are all over this record.

Okay. And it was coming all along. She talks about talking to her friend Nora on the phone. Oh, there you go. Love a fellow Nora. Yeah. Sally and Molly. My friend Sally's getting married.

to me that sounds so scary No friend Molly's got a guy she says to God could be a family Sally and Molly getting married And don't forget Yeah mentioned the never going home Scene that she writes Where you know

Everybody's getting ready to go do something And you're having a glass of wine While everyone's doing their hair And picking out clothes and someone's not moving fast enough, and there's an Uber downstairs, and it's going to pull away in 30 seconds, and everybody has to get in the elevator and go,

like, that was just really palpable. The interlude in So Sick of Dreaming is both, you know, it's as told to friends, but it also mentions going down the street to meet her friends. I jumped the stage to go. I had two martinis at the bar and went to meet my friends down the street. And again, there's just a she's, there was a world building to this that I thought gave it personality and like a sense of place and a sense of just made it so much more tangible to me.

And I think her, you know, you're saying there's this thing where people want to be her friend. Well, it seems like she cares a lot about her friends. Like the, you know, writing friendship into song is really lovely because, first of all, sometimes I think it's shortchanged. Like, it's so, there are 800 zillion love songs, right? Or breakup songs. There's so much about romantic relationships. Friendships sometimes get the short shrift in artistic treatments. And I like that she is spending time doing that.

It feels real. I just loved hearing Maggie write about her friends. So they in spirit seemed to be collaborators to me. And yet a lot of this album is about the demise of a relationship that I think as she refers to in that New Yorker piece, it was sort of like a premonition or something. Well, she says it wasn't. Yeah.

I think she said it wasn't. I mean, you know. Right. Who knows? Was Midnight's a threat? Yeah, it was. That's why I thought, listen, I thought the sort of notable Easter egg for me on this record was Delwater Gap. Holden Jaffe, who she dated, and it feels like many of these songs are about him.

I think they were in school together, I think, the song that they do together called New Song. is absolutely incredible. And they toured together last year, and she brought him out. He opened for her, and she brought him out, and they sang that sort of, it was very much like a Silver Springs,

like Stevie Nix, Lindsey Buckingham, staring at each other, singing. There was major intensity. It was a high point of the show. But he's a producer on a few of the songs. So he's sort of is in, and out of this record. And I just, I wonder, as you say, I wonder how much was actually going on

inside her emotionally about that relationship as she was writing this. And maybe, maybe some of the friendship stuff is a way to channel that almost without being so on the nose about it, right? Because your anxiety is about all your friends getting married and are people, you know, again, I'm sorry. I'm not like, I'm not trying to make this about me. It's not all. me. But this is what she does. Well, and when you're, when you're 30, when you're writing the cost of 30, it's very true that like some of your friends are about to have their second kids and some of your

friends are going on six hinge dates a week. Like, it's a, it's a time when people feel in some ways, like, you're just past that school time where your friendships are sort of built in, right? Like, you're with so many of your peers. all of a sudden you're out in the world and people, you know, they take different paths. And when you get to be around that age, everybody's sort of figuring out like, oh, what does it mean that I'm doing this and they're doing that? And sometimes seeing yourself through your friends, they're doing this and I'm doing that.

What does that mean about them? What does that mean about me is sort of a way of channeling what do I think about this relationship? What do I think about my relationship? What do I think about the fact that my relationship ended? And so I wonder if that was a tool to not be quite so on the nose about it. But I also just think that it's very true to life. And as I think there are a lot of roughly 30-year-old women in her fan base, again, I just imagine that it's going to work for people.

Yeah. Well, they subscribe. She's got a newsletter that she puts, I mean, she's kind of, I mean, I think she can sort of be a, I don't get the Maggie Rogers newsletter, do a leap of book club, crossover event of the century. Yeah, I think she can be like a more grounded goop, honestly, because I think for all the reasons that you're laying out here, like, she got you in the same way that she's gotten so much of her fan base. I think she's just, you know, she's easy to love in that way for a lot of, in particular for a lot of women who just feel connected to her, because there's

just an authenticity to her and perspective that feels familiar. That's all 100% right. I just want to go on the record. I don't need a more grounded gop. If anything, I need a less grounded goop. You need an unhinged? Yeah. Well, I mean... Unhinged. We're not fully hinged as is.

But, like, the more off the rails we want to go, I'm not buying, but I'm observing. And I'm observing willingly. I don't go to goop for my grounding. I go to goop for, like, insane travel guides to Bratislava and absolutely absurd facial products. Yeah. weird jade crystals that and scented candles of like female body parts and things. Yes. Not, not crystals. Crystals would be a bad idea.

Yeah. Spikey. Well, what would you cut if you had to? Okay. So what a transition. This is like the most nor answer of all time. And I do think, I want to give a lot of credit for the fact that this is a concise, collection of songs. Yes. That I feel the same,

I feel like. If you cut one, I feel like. Yeah. And I don't, I don't feel the need to be cutting here. And I really do.

All of our content is too long. Movies are too long. Albums are too long. So I really want to be like, good on you guys for doing some editing with the length here. I will say that I didn't quite know what to do with either of the ballads.

Okay. I still do. Yeah, all the same and I still do. Until one day you wake up and you realize that what you see is what you know. And how far can you bend for you break it all someday? And I wonder if part of that was like even some of the most uptempo songs. on this album were sort of emotionally resonant to me. So the moments when she's sort of asking you to sit down and just listen,

I just, you know, I was like, I don't know what to do with my hands. So I ended up saying that I would actually cut all the same. Okay. I understand it. I mean, this song feels very old soul. Feels like an outtake of blue. The vibrato in her voice is very, very Joni. The guitar feels like Nick Drake, Pink Moon to me almost.

I get it. Isn't it strange that for someone who communicate so effectively in such a feeling, like such an intimate way, that it's the two most stripped down songs that maybe don't land as much? I mean, I still do, that sounds like a Carol King song to me. It's got shades of songbird. It's got the piano at the end feels like that song Lullaby by Billy Joel to me. And I guess I'm with you that those two, good night my angel, time to close your eyes. And I think she's communicating something that is real for her. But I guess I'm with you that those two, yeah, I'd put him in the category. There's something in both of them for me in the sense that I think the story in all the same,

I actually found a little bit more compelling of the two. I still do. I thought her voice sounded particularly lovely. Yeah. So there's something in both of them. I just didn't quite sink my teeth into either. And ultimately, I put all the same in the category because I felt like she just sounds really great and I still do and that seemed worth

sticking it out on. Sounds like you're in the same place. Yeah, I think I'm in the same place. No, no, I didn't. I mean, no, I think I wouldn't put anything else into that category. It just leaves a tier of songs like on and on and on and on. Which I really love

and the bass and guitar. I mean, it actually sort of sounds like a John Mayer song to me. I don't trust myself of loving you. And but there's that cute little Maggieism at the end. Yeah, you better run. Yeah, you better run. I also wrote, sometimes I go back to my notes and I'm like, what was I, what did I mean by this? But I went under this song, I wrote, this is going on and then in all caps, playlists.

Like I'm Oprah. Like, what? Yeah. Okay. I like that song. You get a playlist. You get a playlist. Yeah. I love that song too.

And look, I like, I like drunk. Drunk to me, I mean, she references on and on and on lyrically in that song. That feels like Pat Benatar love is a battlefield. Yeah, it's a cool. I mean, it's cool. It's also, it's a little darker. Like, there's, again, even,

there's so much that has that great, like, 90s, early 2000s, rom-com aesthetic where it's just like, you're driving in a car and you want to listen to those songs and they're sort of bright, even if a lot of the storytelling, telling she's engaging with is not

is certainly not saccharine and is bittersweet most of the time. That drunk is, I think, cool because it is a little darker sonically. Yeah, there's more minor tension on this album from a chord perspective. It really reminded me of the chicks

not ready to make nice. Interesting. Like in a... I paused it and was like, What song am I singing in the back of my head? And it took me like 45 seconds to figure out what it was. And I was like Googling lyric fragments being like, what fucking song is this?

But that's what it was. Well, that's cool. I can live with that. I think it was coming all along as a great warm-up first pitch album intro. I think those are all songs that are worthy. They don't, because I do think there are a couple that are transcended on this record. They don't go into that category. But it's a really good listen.

And I don't think that the ballots, I still do. and all the same. I don't think they get in the way of the flow from start to finish. But I'm with you... Again, this is not a long album. No.

I'm with you that I won't go back to them individually in the way that like I am wearing the fuck out on if now was then and the kill. I am wearing those songs out. One thing I love about

just because you mentioned it was coming all along as sort of the setup and I really enjoyed that song too. I did really appreciate it. And it really kind of primed the pump for me to realize that this is going to be my favorite Maggie record and that I was going to connect with it in a way that I hadn't quite gotten there with the past two was the I know it might sound existential if this is the first time that we meet. No, I might sound existential if this is the first time where we meet. Which I put down as peak Maggie just because in so.

ways I think that has been, that's been my point of disconnect is like, I'm just this, like, it's like a little too new agey. It's a little too woo-woo. I'm not quite getting the, like, I'm, I'm hearing ideas about sort of the world and fame and being at peace and less so than I'm hearing like a person. So I think the fact that she just said that, I was like, oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, you understand how I feel. And you're a, like, I don't know. So it really worked for me. So I like that song.

Can we have a quick conversation about an area that always seems to get me in trouble? But I think it's important context to have. And that is her hair. No. Yes. Yes. I know. And but we're going to talk about it because it's a thing.

It's a thing that her fans take notice of and talk about. And when she went to the pixie cut on surrender, there was like online chatter about that and that in some ways for some fans I guess it felt harder to access her through that record because of the haircut but I think it speaks Okay can we just stop and recognize that that is an unhinged sentence?

Completely unhinged, completely unhinged and thank goodness that she is enough of an artist and not, you know, Googling Maggie Rogers or searching Maggie Rogers on Twitter all the time to be able to keep space from that. But imagine being in that position where, you know, how you wear and cut your hair like makes, I mean, listen, Taylor sort of lives with that

in a certain way, right? But like, there was like a bunch of fan feedback when she went to this pixie cut. Yeah, but that's weird. Like, if Taylor cut her hair, people would be weird about it, but in a different way. I don't think anyone would be like,

I can't connect with the album because she got a bob. Like, Taylor got a bob, and it was fine. But it speaks to the front frontier edge of the fan base that, you know, maybe gets borderline obsessive of any artist's fan base where they feel like she's their best friend. Doesn't it speak to also kind of the, I'm going to be really dramatic, but like the prison of authenticity. Exactly. And like if you are an artist where part of the, you know what, I will say sales pitch because that sort of proves my point. Sure.

is this quasi-spirituality and, like, connection to life and nature. And, you know, you're not, you're not trying to be Madonna. It's not, it's not eras. It's not costumes. It's not dress up. Then there becomes this box where you can't change your hair or do anything with the intent of being popular or well-received or, you know, selling your wares because every, like, this is her job. And I just, I have so little patience for that shit. And I think it's so dumb. And no one ever does it to men.

No, of course not. Leave Maggie alone. Well, I agree. But I do think that it was the female portion of her fan base that was having that reaction. Now, she speaks to this. She speaks to this in the New Yorker piece. And she does it in a way that I think is classically Maggie and that she just says, no, no, no, there was a time I had a pixie cut in like seventh grade. Like, this is me. I just, I do different shit with my hair depending on where I am emotionally in a moment. And so I think that will... Which is like literally not novel.

Now, just to fend off any charges of hypocrisy, this is not to say that there is not meaning in a haircut. We all know. We all know when, if Maggie Rogers gets bangs, yeah. There's nothing wrong with it, but I'm taking note of it. Yeah, you're writing it there. And I'm taking note of the fact that it might have some meaning to it.

For sure. But to, I can't connect with the songs because she cut her hair. Like, no, I know. Touch grass. Well, that's it. Sorry. Anyway, we're in this era now. But it just, it speaks to the fragility and delicacy if you're not careful about, you know,

an incredibly passionate fan base that feels connected to you as a human being, right? it's a different connection, I think, than some people have with other pop stars, other artists, where it's just, it's a, the friend component. Look, we see this with Taylor sometimes, where the fringes of the fan base get to, like, get controlling and feel like they have a right to be consulted just like a friend on who you date or what you wear or how you cut your hair. And there is something that's very powerful in a connection like that, but it can be, to your point, confining.

Well, and also Taylor, like, Taylor gets that in a lot of ways. I do think Taylor is allowed to dress up and change her hair and do stuff like that in a way that maybe it's actually a little bit tougher for someone like Maggie to do because Taylor, I think people have accepted and come to celebrate that. She going to change it up every now and then. Yeah. Changes, disguise, costume. vibe. All of those aesthetics are in the traditional

pop star mold of performance is centered and celebrated. Performance as in performative. Whereas I think for someone like Maggie who is straddling kind of like singer-songwriterdom and being a version of a pop star

that's trickier. See haircut. Her hair looks great. She's great. Next album, Appetiser. I mean, I think it's this record. I think she's... She's going to keep making music with Ian, and I'm here for it.

I'm excited for it to be a longer process, as opposed to a flash-in-the-pan moment. I think there was something uncorking about this creative episode over five days that now, with more time and, you know, more of the, hey, let's write 30 songs and see which ones we want to keep and stick. I mean, they're well on their way at this point. I'm really excited for where she goes from here. Yeah, I think one thing I wrote down here was, is this the country album or is that coming?

And I say that a little bit tongue in cheek just because there are so many of these kind of country crossover things right now. And we talked about Ian being involved in the connection with Casey and also that, you know, she's doing stuff with Zach Bryan. She's on stage with Springsteen and Zach Bryan in New York City. Yeah, I mean. Right. So I do a question that I have is kind of like, but I think on this album, she wears those vibes in a nice way where it's subtle. But also she could go all in, right?

And that's not what she's doing here. And so my question was, is that coming? or is this the version of that she wants to do? It's a good question. I mean, this feels a little bit more Phoebe Bridgers than Zach Bryan to me. And, of course, she's collaborated with Phoebe before. But I think what sits with me about heard it in a past life is the rhythmic components of her creations. That I think Farrell instantly pointed out when he heard Alaska for the last life for the,

the first time was rooted a little bit in her banjo playing. Like, he could hear some of the banjo in the rhythm and the percussion and all that. This record doesn't have that. Can I just before you make whatever point you're about to make, because I don't want to throw you off when you're actually a little of making it. I just need to say, so I love the Farrell video. Can we acknowledge that when Farrell throws out Wu-Tang, it's really weird? It's fucking awesome.

What are you talking about? He's like, I've never, it's like a drug to me. I've never heard anything like this. It's like the first time people heard Wu-Tang. Yeah. I don't know. But I appreciated that as a comment, I mean, to tap into our Beyonce conversation in that like it's not genre constrained.

It's like you hear something that's fresh and different and authentic. And it can be Wu-Tang over here or it can be this girl who seems to have fallen out of the woods of Maryland and into a Berlin club. and combined that noise with a banjo and made this, and it's all the same experience. Yes, and his point, obviously, it was not, this sounds like Wu-Tang. It was, I haven't heard anything like this before,

and that is akin to the first time you by just, Ferell is being Forel a little bit in the video. Forel knows that he's in a video. Yes. While it is like a really, really beautiful, wonderful, like, if you can't have fun watching that video, like, defrost your, your heart and soul because it's just really lovely in everybody's awkwardness.

I just, Ferrell is just doing a little bit of a Farrell thing. Anyway, continue. What were you saying? No, I just, next album, I wonder if she incorporates some of the more rhythmic parts of, of her first record into LP4,

as she would call it before she gave it a name. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And whether that's in the sort of back to more of the synth pop adjacent vein or not, I think would be interesting too. I mean, I think she's talked about her songwriting approach, you know, when she got to NYU and first few years of school there, being very much based in melody.

And she wrote melodies first, but part of that experience going to Berlin and getting a little bit more immersed in that club culture was connecting with music. rhythmically and rhythmically first in a way that was new to her. So she could do that in a way that doesn't necessarily use those exact sounds. Again, doesn't pull from that quite as much, but just uses the rhythm as a basis or not. That would be cool. I like it. This is one where I don't, there are a lot of things that I would be curious to hear what's next. I have some questions.

There are some things that seem very possible. but because this album was the product of, you know, five days. And as you said, that real flash in the pan moment, I don't know that it feels like it's leading her somewhere specific or boxing her in anywhere, which is great. Do you have a best lyric? Yeah, I do. And we talked about it a little bit.

To me, it's from the kill. I love the line. You kept your secrets, stole my weaknesses, in your white t-shirt that I couldn't fill. Something about the white t-shirt that I couldn't feel. Like you can just see in those relationships where in particular early days

and you're borrowing each other's clothes and she's in an oversized t-shirt to get to the like 80s, 90s rom-com. Something about that line brought me straight to say anything. I gave her my heart. She gave me a pen. Yeah.

She gave me a pen. Give my heart and she gave me a... It's a sort of mismatch of... And that's what this song is sort of about. So I love that imagery and it just... That part slayed me. Oh, that's cool. I didn't even think of it in that way,

but the line... The white t-shirt line did stick with me and was vivid. So that's cool. Mine was just the opening of Don't Forget Me. My friend Sally's getting married. And to me, that sounds so scary. I just, I had a lot of contenders, but to me, that was the show don't tell version of my Saturn has returned.

My friend Sally's getting married to me that sounds so scary. And we've spent so much, like, clearly, this is a concept that people are interested in. And the fact that she did it and she, you know, to me, she hit the nail on the head. You know that you just get it. And she doesn't have to say it. Not that there's anything wrong with saying it. But it was cool to me to hear someone approach that in a way that wasn't quite so on the nose, but actually ended up being a little bit more, I think, potent because of it.

So there were, yeah, I think it's a lyrically very strong album. I think her writing is consistently a real strength for her. But that to me I chose because it just seems to be this thing that everybody kind of wants to write about. And I think she's done it in a very good way. As a Maggie advocate, I cannot tell you how happy I am about the songs that have really connected deeply with you. Because I really think. Because they're not yours. No, they are.

But I think just like industry guys will, and what the fuck the industry guys? No, but industry guys will say, oh, don't forget me for sure. But the kill and if now is then are the ones that could be like the stratosphere kits. It's just a reminder that Maggie is also like Casey in a really good way. Maggie is a vibe. And if you connect with that vibe, there's so much of what she. creates that is really digestible and again in particular to women of a certain ilk. So he calls me a 15 minutes before the reservation. Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm, I'm here for it.

I'm super here for it. Like, shall we grade the album? Yeah, go for it. Ever. I mean, I'm, I'm biased. I'm, you know, so who cares what I think, you know what I think. But I'm curious, really, where does this one land for you? I gave it, and I sort of copped out too in some ways, but I gave it a 91. It felt like this is part of what is so interesting to me in going through all of these albums and talking about all of these artists which is just getting a little bit of a snapshot on the moment in the music industry and the moment in the sort of pop girl landscape, which is fascinating because there are these people like Maggie and Casey is another one

where they have really strong, like, potent fan bases. They are household names to the people who are listening to this podcast, to me, to my friends. It feels a little bit wrong in some ways to have just given the Beyonce album an A and say, I really love this Maggie Rogers album. It is also an A. Yeah, I get it. Because in some ways, the scope and the ambition is a little bit different. It's different. Yeah.

Although I do think that, like, I think, man, I think. this is well done. I think it sounds like her, but it also sounds like something I've never heard from her before. And that's really cool. I think they showed some editing. She sounds awesome. It's funny. It's creative. So where that all worked out for me was at a 91. I think it's exactly, it's like my son's Spanish and science grades. Like it's a low A, but it's trending up. And I I know that he's going to get it all the way up next report card. Because, like, there are some, to me, again, I think there's some transcendent writing on this record.

And she didn't, five days. Five days. So let's, with the creative juices flowing, with her, you know, creating some structure for creativity to exist and still be like a human being that is not only represented by that creativity, like with all that in place and the work that she's done and the academia that she's sort of pursued now with more time and interest and passion for the creativity as an artist,

I can't wait to see what she builds on from here. But I love this record. Again, I am wearing the F out a couple of the songs on this album and I can't wait to see what she does with this live. And can't wait to hear what other people think about it. Really had a lot of fun with this one. All right, this has been every single album. I'm Nora Prince-Dotti. As always, he is Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kaya McMullen for producing

this episode. We will be back next week to talk about Taylor Swift.