Every Single Album - Ella Langley Dominates, Taylor Swift at the Grammy Museum, and Noah Kahan Vs. Stella Lefty

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

Nora and Nathan hit on a grab-bag of summer pop news, including Ella Langley's continued domination of the charts with her song "Choosing Texas" (1:45), Taylor Swift's Q&A and performance at the Grammy Museum (35:43), and Noah Kahan receiving a retroactive writing credit on the Stella Lefty song "Boston" after his team called out the similarities to his song "Stick Season" (52:48). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Pinciotti. And as always, I am joined by my pal Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, I like it so much more when we're in the same room. You're so far away from me again. You don't wish you were here. It is so hot in Los Angeles right now that my dogs will not go outside. They're just looking at me and they're like, fuck no.

You go outside. Well, you're right that I don't necessarily root for that for myself. but it was so wonderful to see you last week. I really enjoyed it. It is summer. Speaking of the hot weather that you were experiencing. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry about the dogs.

And we're going to do an end of summer mailback. A lot has happened. There's been a lot of new music. There's been festivals. There's been interviews. There's been Taylor Swift showing up at the Grammy Museum. What? And we've got a lot to talk about, as is so typical.

we received just really good, insightful, and interesting questions. We're not going to be able to get to all of them. But this time around, there are a few topics where, like, there was a real critical mass of questions. So I chose a couple representative ones, but I'm going to start us with a few kind of topics. And then we'll get to some individual more one-off questions. Okay. The first topic that just came up from so many people had to do with the song Choose in Texas. Hmm.

She's from Texas I can tell by. And Ella Langley and what we think of Ella Langley and what we think of that song. And it's popularity in what that says about the charts, which I do think is an interesting topic. I'm so Francie, who is my friend Francie and my friend's sister. So hi, Francie. Thanks for writing in. Asked, help me understand the popularity of Choose in Texas, which is about to earn Billboard's longest run at number one ever,

with the exception of Mariah Carey's all I want for Christmas is you. Choose in Texas has currently been number one for 19 non-consecutive weeks, which ties it with Old Town Road and tipsy for the most consecutive weeks at number one for any non-holiday song. All I Want for Christmas is You has the record at 22 weeks, though we should note that as Christmas comes, but once a year, but once a year, there will forever be opportunities for Mariah Carey to expand on that 22 weeks.

So let's say choose in Texas last another three or four. That doesn't necessarily mean that all I want for Christmas is you can't grab another this year and next year. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, you slice it. An incredibly popular and ubiquitous song this summer. I think we should just start. I mean, we've talked about the song a little bit

because we did an episode at the beginning of the summer that touched on Ella Langley. We were also talking about Casey Musgraves a little bit, who we will get to in another question. But where are you just musically on Choose in Texas? Well, I'm struck by the other songs that you mentioned that are tied with it for longest run at number one, Old Town Road and Tipsy. Yeah, I want to take my horse to the Old Town Road downtown near Fish Street. Everybody at the Barking Tipsy.

Which are pretty fun, kind of easy, listening, quasi-country waltz bar songs. And that's what this is. And when you combine it with, first of all, have you ever been to Texas? There's a lot of people there. And have you been to Middle America? And see, I mean, there's a reason why more than one is.

The lone star state community is single-handedly, or many-handedly, I guess, pushing this song up the charts. Is that your contention? I mean, Dallas Cowboys are America's team. Like, there's a huge chunk of culture that gets driven by Texas. This is a love song to the state in some ways. And it's crushing. It just is.

And when you layer in the fact that the internet finds this person beautiful, that she is now bringing out everybody from, I mean, Drake is in the crowd singing this song this past week. And so it's become just, it's one of those things that has broken out of its lane and become ubiquitous and crossed over, as it were. And this is, it's just a hit. And it's going to be, it's going to continue to go like this forever because it, it again, doesn't, it's not offensive. It can rest in the ears of singer-songwriters. It can come, it certainly is right down the alley of country. it has some pop elements to it. She has full crossover appeal.

And then when you layer in Drake getting in the mix, it's like there's a bit of monoculture to it. And we tend to see it every now and then. But it certainly feels like that song, if you're being honest, that song, to me, feels like the song of the summer. I think that's unequivocally correct. I mean, I think that there is this,

the reason I ask you, like, if you sort of take all this context out, do you like the song? is because I do think that there is a little bit of this sentiment of, sure, yeah, it's fine, but why this song? And so first of all, I do, like, are you seeking this song out? No. Okay.

But you're hearing it because it's everywhere. Yeah, you don't have to seek it out because it's in your face all the time. That's it, right? Well, right. And the reason I ask is because I actually, like, I'm not going to say that I love this song. This is my favorite song. I actually think that it's a pure representation of its inherent genius that it's this popular.

I think it's much more about some of the circumstantial stuff and a right place, right time thing. And we can talk a little bit more about that. But I quite like it. I think there's like a, I think there's something summary about how relaxed it is. It's like this breakup song that the protagonist is not going to try to do anything about. And there's something about like you're sitting around, it's August, it's hot, and she's just singing like, I can tell he's choosing Texas. This is over. Curtains.

This is what's going to happen. Oh, well. And like, there's a charm to that for me. Yes. And like we're at the dawn of SEC football. There's like state versus state stuff. There's Tennessee versus Texas throughout. It's got all of the hallmarks of a country music song,

except it doesn't really reference a gun. But like there's driving. It references I-40. There's drinking. She's drinking Jack. Drinking Jack all by him. He's choosing Texas, I can tell. There's dancing.

She's stepping. There is a woman lusting after a man, which always seems to work in country. It's a great way to bring a man in when he's like, wait, somebody's looking at me. Somebody actually wants me. Somebody's filling the dark hole in my heart of insecurity. I'm in. So it has... Well, and it's like the idea of Texas as a woman is sort of compelling. Sure. Exactly. There's dancing. Like this lady siren of Texas, like wearing a 10 gallon hat and boots. Yep. There's dancing. There's cowboy reference here.

There's, it just has all of the basics. I do want to say that I think I speak for both of us when We understand how painfully coastal we sound. Yes. We get it. We get it. But I just want to acknowledge. As someone who spent lots of time in Nashville in the music business, like these are the elements that make up, like you just got to go through and check a certain number of boxes.

And you know you're going to get something out into the world that gets received. Well, Hank Williams reference, check. So it has all of the basics. But it's also a good song. And it's easy on the ears. and she is, according to the internet, easy on the eyes. And so I think when you link all of those things together, plus the cosigns from things outside the lane of country,

it feels like all of the country world has gotten behind this in support of it, which is not something that they traditionally do for women in country music, which is what makes this so cool. And she's crossing over. What's cool about Ella is she does not. seem. This is not like a Shania Twain Taylor Swift situation. Her album is distinctly country.

It does not feel, you know, when we looked at Megan Maroney or Casey Musgraves, it was kind of Casey coming back to country, Megan flirting with pop and Ella right down that lane. And between her performance with Morgan Wallen and these stadium dates where

people were sort of inventing a little bit of tension between, like positive chemistry tension between them, or just the, the, the sonically, the album itself, she is very comfortably in Sconson country, and I think that has allowed

the fan base to not worry that she's cosplaying to get to a different place. Well, and I think so, another question that we got on this topic was from S. Lau 86. And the question was, should we think of Ella Langley as a pop girl now?

And will she sweep the Grammys? Let's leave the Grammys thing out of it for now. I think the answer to that is no for the reasons that you're talking about, but I do, I think, I think about it in reverse of what I'm taking from this question, which is, does Ella Langley's ubiquity and like top 40 ubiquity equate to a presence in pop and a crossover moment and her being a pop girl now? And I actually think that, I think it sort of goes the other way. Because if you look at the rest of.

of the, you know, the top five. Top five songs in the Hot 100 right now are choose in Texas. Boston by Stella Lefty, which I don't know that I want to full-throatedly call that a country song, but it certainly has a country aesthetic to it.

I knew it, I knew you, which is a very Taylor Swift doing country again. Ben by now, Morgan Wallen. If it was meant to be, we'd work things out. And hate that I Made You Love Me by Ariana Grande. So, Ariana, no. But every other song in the top five is arguably country or at least country fluent.

It's the most, like there's a little bit of a country curious. And so there's a little bit of like a two Americas thing. where these are not always the most, like, sort of discursive pop artists in the sense, like, in kind of music media and social media, but in terms of consumption, like, in terms of people listening to the stuff, country is the most dominant popular genre right now. And I think because of that, you see actually,

like I am more interested in what it means that someone like Drake is actually kind of like, oh, maybe I can go draft off Ella Langley for a moment right now because I don't think that that has to do with Ella Langley seeking out a cosine. I think it goes the other way around. And so I don't think of her as a million percent does. Totally. So I don't think of her as a pop girl. but I do think there becomes an interesting question of what does she take from this moment

where there is all of this interest coming from outside of the country sphere and what does she say yes to? What does she say no to? But I think to your point, like it comes from a place of at least based on that album, someone who is not really looking to do a crossover, at least any time soon. I mean, she may do a crossover duet. That wouldn't surprise me at all. But like a career crossover.

Yeah, every time Morgan Wallen puts out an album and his album sits there at number one for six months, people are like, who the hell's listen at all this stuff? And then if you actually go to Morgan Wall and show or just look at one on TikTok, you're going to be like, oh, shit, giant stadiums, giant college football stadiums worth of people. are into this. And so it depends on how you define pop. If pop is just supposed to be popular music, then yes, country is as a format

is the most popular like it is. But I think there is a difference between what Ella Langley does and what Sabrina Carpenter does. And there are different audiences. There are definitely crossover between them, including on this podcast. But I think, you know, here we are recording

on the day. that Dolly Parton passed away. And I know that for some reason, this is not making me sad. Like, I think as much as anything else, she died of a broken heart. And I think it's wonderful and lovely. And she's in a place that she deeply believed in

with somebody who she loved. I don't know. There's something sort of beautiful about it. And I'm so glad that everybody is remembering her in the right way and celebrating her in the right way across the coastal and political aisle, there's something very beautiful about the way that she's being remembered. It's been a while since I felt like somebody passed

where there was just sort of universal celebration of her life as opposed to some fuckhead on the internet trying to make a big deal out of it. She just, it's a very special, I don't know, she has ascended. And I will always love her. I will always love her. It made me sad.

I agree with you that it's, There's something so wonderful about the fact that she just kind of felt like the only person who really had 100% approval. And it was really well earned. I mean, talk about someone who just seemed to live their entire life with a gravitational pull towards trying to make things better for other people and just kindness. And also, like, having a sense of humor. I don't know why, but for some reason that's something that I've thought about a lot is like, in whatever moments she, just because it's like there was, there seems to be so much positivity around her and why is that?

And it feels like, at least from what I can tell, like throughout her life when she got, when she did hit a moment of even like light controversy or whatever, she always dealt with it with a joke. And even the stuff about like, I'm not dumb and I'm not blonde either. I don't know. I think there's a lesson. and being able to laugh stuff off and make a joke out of stuff.

But it made me sad. Yeah, I mean, and in a lot of ways, like, one of the original, like, multifaceted creators, right, who had all of these disparate businesses built around her brand. And actress, songwriter, artist in her own right, businesswoman, just all of the things that we see Selena Gomez moving into, like all of today's pop girls and just stars generally. Like she really is a pioneer in that.

But Dali was always wonderfully country. She was wonderfully rooted in Nashville. She celebrated that. She never made any apologies for that. And she always stayed a part of that community. And it feels very in this one narrow way. It feels analogous to what we're seeing from Ella, who understands that that community is important

and doesn't need to be anything but that. And that community seems to be really, embracing her and lifting her up in this moment. So, you know, when it comes to the Grammys, we'll see it felt like they maybe changed some rules so that she could win a few things. Or at least be nominated for Best New Artist. Best New Artist, yeah. The change being that previously you could submit three times, which she has done. They changed the rule this year to allow a fourth submission, which would put her eligibility. But I have to say, I think that, the success of this song now actually makes that look small.

I agree. You know, somebody like Audrey Hobert is more worthy of this category. And Ella Langley at this point has to be in consideration for a song or record of the year with this entry. Because the people are voting at this point. And it doesn't feel, listen, Old Town Road felt a little hokey. It just did. There was some crossover stuff happening there. Tipsy, same kind of thing.

with some crossover from a genre, I'm happening there. And, well, I mean, Shabuzzi's unabashedly country, but, but it, it felt like a little more of a play. Yeah, but the sample. Yeah. And so, um, this is not that. And, um, well, well, it does, I think, stem from those two songs. And there's some, some commonalities. Like she's, um, this is, this is a song that's going to be taken very seriously,

uh, assuming it gets submitted and, and so forth, come, uh, Grammy voting time. This is in no way to discredit the song, which obviously it is extremely popular. I also do feel like this conversation is incomplete without some acknowledgement that the charts are very stagnant and stuff that gets big. There are a lot of mechanisms where it's very hard for there to be a lot of movement and stuff that gets really big like that, it tends to stay big. and, you know, there was a while back that that Billboard tried to change some of the rules about how stuff that was a little bit further down would get replaced at a slightly greater clip to try to fix some of that stagnation. And it is an ongoing feature or bug depending how you look at it of just like how we perceive what is popular. And that's that's at work here too. Yeah, and for a lot of the music industry, they will tell you that radio doesn't really matter anymore, accepted country radio.

And so I think it's not a surprise that sometimes big country radio hits get weighted heavily here. That's the sort of algorithm, potentially speaking. But, you know, it's interesting. I mean, this song is streaming two, more than two and a half million times a day on Spotify right now. Fate of Ophelia is streaming 2.1 million and nothing else in Taylor's catalog right now is streaming more than like 1.2 million and that would be like blank space.

So this is a big ass song. Yeah. Like a really big song. Yeah. And it's going to be up there in the canon on the like, not just probably songs from 2020, but it's as big a song as we've had this decade. All right.

Well, you broke the Taylor Swift seal by bringing her up. And I do want to say there was one person who incredibly, like, kindly and politely asked a question and then was like, and maybe this week you won't, you guys won't talk about Taylor Swift just once, like just one time. Sorry. I chuckled to myself and I thought, well, maybe some week soon, but you're going to be disappointed this week. And also, I wish I could show you what the rest of these questions look like because I happened to put the call out just, I think, hours before the interview video and performance video from Taylor Swift's icon series interview and performance, the Grammy Museum, which happened to read. recently, were just gifted to us, dropped upon the World Wide Web and YouTube, as it were. And we were then inundated with just, like, frantic question upon question of, you haven't recorded yet, right? You haven't recorded yet, right? Like, what do you think about this?

So, Maggie Peterson. Can we just conspiracy, can we just conspiracy corner before you finish this? Sure. Do you think, do you think that the T.S. is, that appeared in some places have anything to do with new debut because they're the same colors the dress she wore at this performance. I don't know. All right, all right. I just, great. I really?

Back to the seriousness. I feel that the only way for me to have peace in my life, Nathan, is just to say, I surrender. When she believes it is time, it will be time. And then it will be visited upon us. Like, I'm not trying to skirt the question. I will say that my gut instinct says no. Like, I just feel like there are other things that she would do first.

I don't feel a sense of debut or debut Taylor's version or the vault tracks or debutation. Like, I don't feel that, I don't feel in my bones that that is coming, but like I am often wrong. Yeah. I'm not, like, as when it was suggested, I was kind of like, I'm not really ready for it yet. Like, I'm not a big listener of showgirl, but I like this era of Taylor Wedding, you know, this, I knew it, I knew you. Let's let this play out a bit. I'm not ready for debut yet. If I wanted to conspiracy corner with you, what I will say.

And just to close the loop on the question. from McKen Peterson, just thoughts on Taylor Swift icon series for Grammy Museum, which I felt was representative because a lot of the questions were just like, can you please talk about this?

One of the things that really stood out to me was how at the end of that interview with Harvey Mason Jr., she said, I love my country roots more and more. I feel more loyal to them. And it seemed like she made a real point of saying, If there's anywhere I want to be musically right now, that's where it is.

And that could be a nod to, I knew it, I knew you. And I think some of what's happening here is she's doing a little bit of a campaign for that song. They're voters in the room. That's what that is. I mean, know what this is. Well, first of all, I think she and Travis gave a donation. And maybe I got poo craved on that, but it looked like they were very generous in the support of some of the work that the Grand Museum does.

But yeah, I mean, there's voters in the room, and that's why you show up and do that. You show up to that audience because you were paying homage to the voters. Yeah, and it's a cool format, and I think she seems like she is most willing right now to show up in places where the focus of the conversation is really centered on songwriting. Songwriting, yeah. But it stood out to me how much of a point she made. about feeling grounded right now in country. And she is absolutely a person who pays attention to what is popular.

So, like, see the conversation that we just had about how healthy the marketplace for country is right now, not that Taylor Swift has any difficulty finding an audience. I don't, like, if I were trying to conspiracy corner with you, those would be the things that I would say. I still just don't feel like she's about to do a press cycle and do all the stuff and release something. I just, that doesn't feel right to me. What other takeaways did you have from that interview? I mean, she is magnificent when she speaks about songwriting.

Totally. You are reminded of her intelligence that. To me, it like helps me connect the dots to the earlier parts of in her life. And even some of the parts of her life that she talked about today, where you can tell that there are just circles of people who either resent her or bully her. And she talks about, you know, some of the hate that she gets. And I know that she uses that to fuel herself. It's very Tom Brady-esque or maybe Tom Brady's very Taylor Swift-esque, how you want, however you want to say it. Like she looks for reasons to keep driving herself.

But when she speaks about this art and the combination of art and science that she has found in this perfect alchemy, you're just reminded of how intelligent she is. And it is, I can see how the cool kids or the kids who thought they were too cool for school would have been secretly intimidated by this person who is so intimidated. intentional and thoughtful and articulate and, you know, insert other superlatives here about her craft. And I know that she wasn't that way as a six, eight year old, 16 year old, whatever, that that has evolved over time. There is a depth to her that gets revealed in these long form interviews. And I don't mean the Kelsey Brothers podcast, although even there, you get more from her

than the little sound bites. And here I'm just, just referring to the New York Times thing, which maybe half the time she was just, you know, in talking about clouds and shit, she was just trying to set up, I knew it, I knew you, and drop the Easter eggs. But she's so intelligent that she can mix in with that, just a robustness about her craft. And so I love this, even though you know, she's there, it's all of the complexity of Taylor Swift. She's there because she's doing the work to make sure that it gets recognized by the academy. She's making sure she checks those boxes. That's the reason for it.

but man, I could listen to her talk about the way that she makes her art all damn day. It's never going to be enough for me. Yeah. No, I felt the same way. I thought that the sentiment that she ended on where she said enthusiasm can protect you from anything, I thought that was really lovely. And like, I think that's a good lesson for us all. I think it also is sort of funny and, like, charming to me from her because, there is something that comes through to me, I think, especially now with her,

because she is this like happily married woman. She, you know, her success is unquestionable. And you do see her, and she did it in this interview too. You do see how much she remains motivated by slights like you were talking about. And there is something that can sometimes be. jarring about that to me. Yes, it feels petty at times. Where I'm sort of like, why are you fuzzed about this right now? Yes. And she still does that. Like there's still, I would say, 50% of the anecdotes at least that come up in these answers are about a time that somebody

kind of didn't believe in her. Right. And what she did with that and how it fueled her and how it sparked a creative instinct, how it sparked an emotional impulse and where that led her. And I think as she like goes on and, you know, as you see her sort of like move into this stage of life, there is something that I find disjointed about that, but kind of interesting. And so to borrow a phrase from her, like for me, this is a yes and. I thought that part of it was interesting. but I also thought it was nice that she ended in a place that I think also feels real of this and like songwriting in particular is is just is like why she gets up in the morning. Right.

And it is like what she feels compelled to do as a human being walking this earth. And so she has that enthusiasm. Mumbling things into her iPhone. Yes. Yeah. So I thought that was cool. I'll say two more things that just like randomly stood out to me. I don't know that I've heard her say Nathan Chapman's name in years.

Maybe I'm wrong about that, but like just when she's going through and she's talking about everybody who worked on Red and she was like, you know, Max Martin and Jeff Basker and Nathan Chapman, I was like, whoa, Nathan Chapman mentioned. Interesting. The Tim McGraw thing she mentioned, where she was talking about how the truck that had a tendency of getting stuck is like a little bit of a double meaning because that's the story they tell the parents. And actually, the truck's not stuck at all. They're just pulling over to the side of the road to make out. I've never thought about that. That's wonderful. Thank you for the insight.

It had never occurred to me that it was a front. How did you receive her comments about confessional? songwriting and in particular saying it's not really art or a craft to just blurt out shit about yourself. I think that's 100% true. In this summer of Charlie and Phoebe and Gracie and and hearing... So who do you... Did you... Like, I don't... I didn't

take it like she was talking about someone in particular. Neither did I. But I do think she was reminding everybody whose boss? Yeah. But I think, like, I don't think that's a super, I think the reason I didn't take it as being about anybody in particular is because she seems to be centered on this idea of like shock value. And that would maybe lean you in a Charlie direction. But I just don't think that it's going to be sticky with Charlie, particularly this iteration of Charlie. it just doesn't feel like that's what would.

I don't know. It just seems like, one, a weird shot to take and two, I think if she was going to take the shot, I think she would be a little bit better at it. And then I don't, I mean, I don't think it's Gracie because nothing about the Gracie record was shocking or crazy. No.

I just thought she was trying to define the category a bit more. And to that extent, I mean, I suspect she's feeling what you and I are feeling a little bit as we round the corner into fall, which is that we've had a lot of people put out songwriter-focused albums this year, only a few of which have actually taken root. They've been interesting, but just because they've been out hasn't made them like really great pieces of art. Just because you are honest about what's going on in your life doesn't mean. mean you have well crafted a song. And I think that was the, and I don't think it was directed in anybody, but I think she was holding a bar high for it's not just about being honest and putting words to lyrics

and putting it out there. That's not the accomplishment. Publishing your diary is not it. It's how it actually resonates with the listener. And to me, that is, I think, why we saw her post about the Phoebe album when she has not yet posted her wedding pictures. And again, I just will say for the record one more time, I'm so glad she is keeping those things close. It's why she went to all this trouble to keep the privacy at MSG and to get all those people in there, but to keep phones out so that she had control over it.

I love that it's not out. I love that she's celebrating that Phoebe album because it does. Listen, that Phoebe album is sticking to my bones right now. I am listening to it. I am down rabbit holes on songs. It makes you feel a certain way. And there is something about the crafting of it. And there's a whole group of people who are responsible for that that separates it from some of the other ostensibly confessional songwriting albums that have preceded it in 2026. Right. And she, Taylor Swift, is the best probably at this point to ever do that. And, So I loved hearing from her just a reminder, not in a talking down way, but just in a aspirational way, it needs to be more than just vomiting your diary. There is a craft to taking that honesty and turning it into something that moves others.

Okay. And then she did a performance on the Ares Tour piano that traveled all around the world. She did a mashup of I knew it, I knew you, August, and all too well. I'm not even sure that this is like in my, you know, cracks, my top, whatever of Taylor Swift mashups. It was just fun to watch her perform. Yeah. That's how I felt about this. Yeah, I agree.

I mean, it's just nice to see her back on there singing. Totally. Singing great. And I love that she still wakes up and thinks about the through line between these songs. And, oh, listen, let's just say it like it is. She's not a spectacular piano player. But she is a spectacular connector connector of musical themes and lyrical themes. And she, I thought, yeah, it just was great to see.

She said that all of these three songs were about memory and reflection. And that's how she tied them together. It made me long for a world in which she does some kind of more performance hall stripped down acoustic thing. Like if there's any criticism to be leveled at the Aeros Tour, and I'm not sure that there is one that is legitimate. But they had to judge up the Evermore and folklore sections. Like they had to, you know, like when you have like leftovers from the night before, you got to put some hot sauce in there. You got to do something to spice them up. You got to josh up the leftovers.

They had to add some more electric guitar stuff. They had to add a little bit more rhythm and stuff to just have it carry a stadium. In those stripped down settings, I hope that at some point in her life, she does something analogous to when Prince just toured with a piano. and you were able to deconstruct and dissect songs. He was able to do that in the way that she is so awesome in these interviews at doing. I'd love her to be there. And maybe it's just the all-acoustic treatment

of the great albums that are folklore and Evermore in a setting. I just hope we get to see more of that. It would be a fun counter to what we just saw on the Eros tour. I have no idea how she would meet all of the demand. That's the problem. is she just, it's why she has to do the Ares Tour in massive stadium settings, but it would be so wonderful to see her continue to show us this kind of performance stuff.

We really haven't seen something like this outside of the acoustic songs on the Ares Tour since, I don't know, the Paris performance, right? Where she's like playing acoustic with Death by a Thousand Cuts and everything. comes and you're not my baby. That's a great version of that song. I love those live from Paris. Those are like, I remember when I was doing my rehearsal dinner playlist.

And I was like, I want to, I was choosing a lot of those live from Paris versions of songs. I love them. I think they're good. I think the lover version of that is fantastic. Wow. Now I just want to go listen to that. Okay.

You're absolutely right. I continue to find the demand and scale problem difficult to solve. But maybe in some ways this is the way that she can do it. Like she can do super, super small, but then it gets disseminated more widely. Speaking of my wedding, my friend Evan, who was at your table at my wedding, I don't think you might not have been near enough to each other. to converse, but he was at your table. Ask what I thought was a good question, which is what is the best three-song mashup Taylor could do,

either acoustic or not acoustic, if you have a different answer for that. Go. Okay. Well, something that I will say, I agree with you that the Ares Tour is largely beyond critique. However, one of my personal, soapbox issues, I can feel it.

It's already become this, but it's going to get worse as time progresses, is that I do think inadvertently, the success of the Erez Tour and how amazing the ERIS Tour was is making people forget how amazing the Reputation Stadium Tour was. And, like, I'm taking it upon myself

to make sure that it is not lost to history how incredible a tour that was. And towards the end, I don't know that this is my like absolute number one with a bullet. It would change so many times. But like this just was what was on my mind. At the end of that tour, she would do, this is why we can't have nice things and we are never, ever getting back together.

And like, you could throw in and I did something bad with that. And I love that mashup so much. I think it is, like there's like a petulance to it that's awesome. It sounds great. She, like, really leaned into the whininess of it. And I think about it all the time. And I think it's really special. And, like, am I using this question to just sort of, like,

shoehorn in a pet issue of mine? Yeah, but my podcast. So that's my answer. Good. I'm going to leave. I'm not even going to try to compete with that. Oh, come on. Okay, think about it.

And then, like, you can tell us next week or something. It's really just she needs to do the Christmas album for me. Okay, Evan, I'm going to text you some better answers than that, but I stand by mine. Here's our last, like, kind of topic, and then we're just going to go rapid fire with the rest. I think we need to have a little Audrey Hobart check in. We need to have a little Audrey Hobart corner for a moment on the podcast. Because, I mean, yeah. We did get a, this is not really a question, but it was an assertion from Nick Fermi.

who said for the second consecutive year, my song of the summer is Sue Me. And I couldn't agree more. But Audrey Hobert, she had a big moment at Lollapalooza. She did her tiny desk a couple weeks ago. Her brother has the number one song in the country. Her brother has the number one song in the country.

And she's had some stuff start to bubble up on charts. She hit the Spotify Daily Top. Songs USA chart for the first time on July 1st with Sumi at 112 as of August 17th that had climbed up to 57. Sumi showed up on the Hot 100, I think at 98 on August 4th. It's now at 64 on climbing. I believe the album is on the 200 list as well. Nothing is like, you know, nothing is in the L.Langley zone.

and that is not what we are talking about. But our girl is, like, being consumed at a rate that is garnering reflection from these charts in a new way. Here's the stat that's most interesting to me. Do you know what the most stream song on the Gracie Abrams album is right now? I do, because I don't have threads,

but my husband does, and he reads things to me sometimes. And he's like, well, this is, is interesting from Nathan, Mini Bar by Gracie Abrams is the number one, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I had your thread read to me the other night. Why do I have to communicate to you through Bobby? Anyway, Bobby, thank you. Thank you for staying in it.

It's great. There is a terrific song on the Phoebe Bridgers album that is about you. So in my mind, it's about you, Bob. Which, by the way, somebody also asked, I didn't put this in. I think I forgot. I meant to. Somebody was like, has Bobby heard Bobby? Yes, he has.

He likes it, but he can't stop playing Bo Burnham vines at me. Like that, he can't quite get there. He just wants to talk about Bo Burnham. And that's where he is, and we respect to that. That's his culture. Oh, boy, I'm going to have to write some more threads. But that's the stat. It's that Minibar is streaming the most of any song on the Gracie album.

I'm at the corner of many more. Got 50 bucks and a brain sell. Someone perceived me a kind of scar And Sumi is streaming almost twice as much as any other song on the Gracie album And so something is happening

related to Audrey Hobert And honestly, the reason that you could tell it was breaking through is because suddenly there were haters on Ricky Gourmet's stank face while playing guitar at the Tiny Desk show and people weighing in on her,

when the bots start kicking in, you know you actually have found a broader audience because it's triggered the, let's create rage bait just for engagement. I know, and I don't, I believe in not engaging with any of that stuff, except I do feel the impulse to like go door to door knocking and saying,

what have you done today to advance the Audrey Hobert agenda? Well, in some ways, they are advancing the Audrey Hobert agenda because it's just creating conversation about her. And in some ways, all PR is good PR on the internet. And what it's forcing is people to listen to who's the clown. And who's the clown is still one of the best pop albums that I have heard in a very, debuts that I've heard in a very long time. And that is why you and I chose to do, I mean, a year ago,

I was driving my daughters to school. And we were listening to this. And I called you and was like, we've got to do this. And you were like, I know we do. I'm into it. Let's do it. And that was over a year ago. This is a meaningful, look, I still don't know if Audrey Hobert is a pop star.

I'm not sure. We've had that conversation about what is a pop star three times already on this podcast. But I know Audrey Hobert is a pop songwriter and that she is an excellent. one and that there seems to be Elaine for the kind of comedic, self-deprecating, almost Napoleon dynamite-esque thing that she's got going on on stage. She's got a brother who is kind of the male version of that. He's in a fucking gap commercial. Like, it's happening for the two of them right now. And I think after years of what in many cases, seems to many.

That fucking gap commercial, by the way. But the music kicks fucking ass. Totally. And every part of that, I mean, there are no skips on that album that Audrey put out. There just aren't. And people are starting to figure it out. And I love that we still live in a place where, amidst all the slop and shit on the internet, that there's some form of meritocracy where when you put it out and it's that good

and you get a little bit of a moment, it bleeds. And to your point, it feels it's not Chapel Rone-esque, okay? Chapel was explosive coming out of Tiny Desk. And every song on that album was like, you know, again, a no-skip album that perfection from a pop. Yeah. And I think there was more discoverability for Audrey from Tiny Desk than for Chap. Like, I think Chapel was sort of already, that was like part of the rocket ship. But Chapel was on a rocket chip for a bunch of different reasons.

Yeah, she was on the Olivia tour, but when you look at it trended through time, streams, something happened after that Tiny Desk show. Right around that, yeah. And it had, to your point, the ground was fertile and it was already moving. And maybe that's correlation, not causation, but it sure looked like it was heavily correlated. Now, I'm not at all insinuating that Audrey's going to get to the chapel level, but I do think these are infectious pops songs. I'm just saying, I think there were more people who watched Audrey on Tiny Desk and were like,

I don't know who this is, and now I'm interested. Or maybe not more people, but a higher proportion of people. Right. And look, the Audrey song got a sink in off-campus, right? And so that helped in a lot of ways as it has. But I think that there's, like, look at the video from behind Audrey when she takes the crowd at some of these festivals and just look at the kid, like, holy shit.

It is resonating. And I'm thrilled for her and her team. And man, I just, there is something special about the way that she writes. I'm still not sure that she even wants to do this versus go off and like write a TV show or write a movie. Like this is a woman who is the daughter of a Hollywood writer. Like she's got the writing gene in her blood. We'll see if all of this ascension has changed the way that she thinks about her career. I just hope she's still writing songs because she is a badass motherfucker. Yeah. I mean, do you think that we will get music from her in 2027? I, she said before she came out on this last leg of the tour that all she'd been doing with her time was writing new music. And that says to me that maybe she was inspired and started to feel that energy from the crowd and was writing. 2027 would be two years later. So, I mean, that would be part of the cycle that you'd expect.

I don't think she has to be in a rush, but boy, am I looking forward to seeing what she does next? Because those tens, I mean, the joke of her tour, if you haven't seen it, is that she plays Sue Me twice. And she does one time, and then she makes everybody put the cameras away and just dance. And she's on the trampoline, and it's fun. And yeah, yeah. And it's really smart. It's smart, but part of it is also, she didn't have the catalog.

do everything, right? And so it's a little bit like the chapel show where it took a little while to actually get enough material for her to go out and play to the size of the audience that she had. So again, I don't mean to compare the two because Chapples on an absolute rocket ship and Audrey still, I think, for the if you know, you know crowd. But it sure feels like it's bleeding over. And again, I'm just, I'm thrilled for it because it's just, it's high quality. It's high quality stuff. Okay. Those are like the three conversations I really wanted to make sure that we had.

So let's now go like just a little bit, you know, more fast-paced through these. Yeah, as close as we can manage. So this one is from Abby Katz one. And the question is, Stella Lefty giving Noakon writing credit for Boston. Can we deep dive writing credit? credit laws. I'll go quickly on the second part of that, no.

Absolutely not. We aren't smart enough and we don't know and it's complicated. But that's the answer. That's the answer. Yes. The situation around this in case anybody doesn't know is that NoCon got a retroactive writing credit on Boston, the Stell LFT song earlier this year. But it has definitely been in the news a lot this week.

One, because the song is. at number two, just after Chuse in Texas. And also because Selle Lefty just did a Vanity Fair profile that was timed to the release of her album Long Way Home, and she talked about it. And her quote to Vanity Fair was, when I was writing the song, I wasn't thinking about Noa Khan. I was literally thinking about nothing at all. And then the Vanity Fair writer says she didn't register the similarity at all when fans first remarked on it, but eventually Khan's reps got in touch.

We think this sounds similar. Lefty remembers them saying. She and her team decided to give Khan a writing credit before the song officially came out, preventing any risk of legal action. I don't want to step on anybody's toes, so I'm like, if this sounds like that, whatever, all good. What do you think about this whole thing?

Yeah, I think the lines are so blurry, and I say that pun intended. Like the blurred lines case with the Marvin Gay and Farrell and Robin Thick stuff was pretty monumental in this. But then Ed Shear and... And I'll just jump. I will jump in and say that one of the reasons, at least to my understanding that this is a very hazy space, is that the consensus is that part of why the blurrower, Lines case went in the direction of them owing credit and royalties had something to do with the fact that both of them, I think Forel in particular, just kind of boned it with the jury and like really came off as very entitled and unlikable and that there was at least an impression

left from that, that it wasn't necessarily where things were going just in terms of the legal standard that people wanted to set, but then like things just kind of turned in a weird way based on some of the behavior that happened at that trial. And then to your point, that Sharon case goes a different way. So it's just, it's very fuzzy. It's fuzzy. And I imagine this is not a dissimilar conversation than what has gone down in lore of maybe Taylor's representatives reaching out to Olivia on the first album. But I think the point is, it is blurry. And, you, you are faced with a choice in that moment where you either go fine, as she did, or you say, well, maybe we need to try this out in court, and that becomes ugly. And if you're still a

lefty and you're just trying to make it and you've got a song and you've got momentum, why would you break it up? And look, here's the reality. We are done with new ways to string the traditional chord structures together into something that is truly unique and hasn't been heard before. thing we do on this podcast all the time where we do clips of, hey, this kind of sounds like something we've heard before. And part of the point that we're making when we do that is that a lot of this stuff is naturally derivative. And that's what this is.

And that's okay. I don't blame her for not wanting to fight it. Do you believe her when she says it wasn't in her mind? I don't, I think I believe her, I'm more than open to the idea that it wasn't conscious, that it wasn't like a conscious ripoff. I mean, this song aesthetically, beyond just the structure of the chords and the melody, it shares a lot with stick season. Yeah. It shares an interest in New England. Yeah. It wears its influence on its sleeve.

Certainly. To a point where I find it, I don't fault Noah or his people for going after this because it seems a little bit blatant to me. If you want to say that it's an homage, like, that's fine. I'm comfortable with that. People like the song. I think it's kind of like, I get what's catchy about it. It's the same thing that's catchy about stick season.

I don't love the quote, I wasn't thinking about anything at all. Yeah. That, like, if this is the biggest issue that's dogging you right now, that to me doesn't seem like a particularly well-thought-through way of, I guess literally, a way of responding to that. I have some skepticism around her, I would say. Just from the perspective of, look, the song works. People like the song. So that speaks for itself.

I don't, you know, like, we haven't talked about the album. I think part of that for me is, like, I do not yet feel convinced that. this is a person who is like really ready to say what they feel like they have to say. I mean, think about the Taylor comments about confessional songwriting and what we were just talking about. This Vanity Fair profile,

the whole thing reads to me as though it comes from a defensive crouch. Okay. And I don't... It just... I have a little bit... I have some skepticism about the whole... thing. And I think that is maybe why I'm sympathetic to what Noah Con and his people did here.

But like, I don't, I like the song. There's something about her voice that's very compelling. Yeah. Let me be clear. Noah Khan has the rights to his IP and should be able to protect it vigorously. I, only reacting to the fact that Taylor Swift got shade for protecting her copyrights with Olivia, I haven't seen as much. Not for me. On the NOAA front. Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Yeah. So.

I also think, like, I will say, let's be consistent. I maybe, I don't, I don't really care about a lot of this discourse. However, every time I read the phrase, group on heiress, it really makes me laugh. Like, it really brings a smile to my face. It's just a hysterical combination of words. So for that reason alone, Stella Lefty, like, have at it. I support you. Okay.

Readwatch Sarah. Pulse check on Kiss all the time, disco occasionally, ahead of Madison Square Garden Residencies. What do you think? How much are you listening to this album? Not that much, but I really love coming up roses, and I really love Harry Styles. I'm really excited to go to the show. I will say that I am listening to it less than I thought I would be. Yeah, and one of the reasons why that is is because we do a new album every week, and so I have to cram. I have to cram. And so I wonder about that. But I think Dance No More pop and Coming Up Roses are the three songs that stick with me still. And they made their way into the vacation playlist for sure. But it is...

And even people want this playlist. I expect that there's going to be a crescendoing of volume around Harry Styles as he makes his way into MSG. I think this has all been sort of a warm-up act. And they'll be, he'll re-inject himself a little bit into culture when he's playing in Manhattan for 30 nights. Yeah. I think that's right. I think like, like pulse check right now, the pulse is slow. But I actually don't think that the right time for the pulse check is.

now, it's like, it's once this thing gets kicking. Where's the best place in Manhattan? It's there in the fall. That's the best time of year. And he's going to be there and it's going to be, there's going to be a lot of energy. Okay. This is from Alex Kotke. And this is about another experience in live events. Thoughts about Casey's disco balls. Do you know what this is in reference to? I do. And I'm already extremely uncomfortable. Some of I turn this one over to you. Well, it's about the giant disco ball testicles that Casey Musgraves rides above the stage on her current tour.

Right. And as she said, this is what happens when nobody tells me no. I commend her. I support it. And I'll borrow a comment from my other podcast co-host, Jody Walker, when we were talking about this. because I expressed that in the post, Katie Perry fall and then the Beyonce Cadillac going on tilt. I have a lot of anxiety about these things that our artists are

floating over the top and upon and that are going over the stages and over the crowds. But at least Casey has chosen an item that is designed to hang. it's it's it's oh boy you didn't think about that did you I thought about it which is why I was just left speechless

I am it's very spinal tap ask the whole thing and it gets back to the essence of Casey which is that when she doesn't take herself too seriously she delivers great stuff and I don't know what the return to Saturn album was really although I love the architect

but this last album has just enough of that trace of humor in it that, yeah, Casey's fun. She's really, and my hope is that, like, the album really felt like she was getting back into that kind of vibe and that space, and it does feel like some of the choices that she's made around the tour. She's, like, making a lube. It feels like she's back to, she's back to her old shenanigans, and I'm very happy to say it. Okay. Here's one from Memphis. Lindsay. Should we look out for any unexpected pop girly album drops in Q4? Nathan, you have to answer this. Well, it seems like there's some... You actually have to answer the next turn.

I don't know the answer to this, but it does seem like there's a little bit of mildly activity happening at the moment. And so whether that means we're going to get song or album or something, it feels like we're into the next era. And you think that that could happen this year? I think there's some Spotify billboards that seems to be. to indicate, I mean, those are, that's her face. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Okay. That's an interesting one. That would be a fun one. Okay. And then this is from Ellen Mellon 13, but like really it's from me. Or this is just a question that I needed someone to ask. So thank you, Ellen. Rumors of a 1975 tour.

Can we get 1975 ESA? You mentioned them in so many episodes. But like most specifically, Nathan, rumors of a 1975 tour are swirling. what can you tell me? Nothing that I know. It's time, though. I mean, it's time for this band to come back. They're in my feed all the time.

Charlie has had her album release cycle. She's had two album release cycles since the last 1975 album. It's time. It's really time. I mean, there's a guy, Gavin Lee Davis, who posts a lot of, like,

tour rumors and stuff. And he posted something that said the 1975 USA tour spring 2027. Obviously, this is like totally unverified in conjecture, but like it would make a lot of sense. And my presumption would be that if there is a, if there are coming live events that one could expect new music to accompany that. That's usually the pattern. Nora. It's usually the pattern. It's usually the pattern. If I hear anything about it, I'll let you know via threads, via Bobby. When the 1975 goes on tour, I'll get threads. I mean, listen, it's time. You made one of the statements of the year on this podcast that still resonates with me, which is that this is the most influential band of the 2020s. And I don't really have a counterpoint to that. And, it's 2026 and it's been plenty of time since part of the band was released and that whole

that that's the song on the album that still to this day just sits with me and always will so many cringes and the heroin benches I was coming off the hinges living on the fringes being funny in a foreign foreign language is the name of the album but uh it's time like they they kind of wrestled themselves a new sin. Cinematic Universe that combines everybody from James Taylor to Charlie X-E-X, and it is time to see what else they have. We'll find out. All right.

We're going to go out on this. I think this is a fun one. It is from Colleen Pate. Kiss, Mary Kill. Oh, no. Taylor, Phoebe, or Gracie's lines about not getting married. So we have to define the terms for Taylor a little bit. My first instinct was that this would be referencing the eldest daughter lyric about when I said I didn't believe in marriage, that was a lie.

And then I thought maybe it's, I wouldn't marry me either. Oh. When I said I don't believe in marriage, that was a lie. And then I also thought maybe, but daddy, I love him. I think there's some, Colleen. You can't come to the wedding. Like, send me a note on what this is to you and we can, but I think we can take it in, in whatever direction makes the most sense for us with Taylor.

I think with Phoebe, it is pretty clearly, I'm supposed to be married, but I called it off from Law's weekend. Yeah. And then Gracie, I thought we'd get married, but I guess not from Hit the Law, which just isn't aside. It's funny how similar those lyrics are. we get married, but I guess to know.

That's my favorite part of that song, too. I just love the way that she says it. Me too, actually. But my decision on this does sort of hinge, because I think if it's, I think if it's the sort of sassy, no, you can't come to the wedding, then from, but daddy, I love him.

That's the one that you proverbially kiss. I don't know. Geez, that's hard. Where are you on this? If it's the one from you're losing me, which is like I wouldn't marry me either, then I want to kill that because I don't like that. I don't like the self-deprecate,

or not self-depriquia. I don't like the self-loathing, Taylor. No, let's get rid of that. What do you think? So, funny enough, I think, regardless of which Taylor lyric it is. And to me, I think, I guess probably I think this safest answer would be to have it be, I wouldn't marry me either.

Yeah. I think, ironically, I think you marry that. Okay. I just think it's like, I think it's the most compelling of the three. I think it's the best line. I think it's the most interesting. I do too. Funny enough, I think I kiss the Gracie lyric.

Yeah. And I weirdly, I kill the feet. Like, it's, Taylor aside, I obviously much prefer the Phoebe record to the Gracie record. But in this particular case, we're talking about mini bar aside, one of my very favorite lines moments from that entire album. Versus a line from Lost Weekend that is sort of like interesting from a she's going there point of view. but like isn't one of the top 50 moments of that album that I care about the most. So I think in that case, like, you know, apologies to Paul Meskell, but I'm getting rid of it in this group.

And the Gracie line is actually exactly what I wish she was doing more of on the album. It's like the plain spokenness, the sort of like funny, slightly self-deprecating, talking to your friend at the end of the night in a conversation kind of tone that I like so much when she does. So Mary Taylor, kiss the grazy line. And, well, you know, Phoebe writes about death a lot. Absolutely. Ridiculous question. I think it was a great question.

That's where we're going to leave it. I will try to answer some more, like on Instagram or stuff. there were so many great ones. Not threads. This has been every single album, not threats. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Puntiotti. He's Nathan Hubbard.

Thank you to Kaya McMullen for producing this episode. And to you for listening and submitting questions, we will talk to you next week.