Every Single Album - Grammys Predictions and Mailbag Questions

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Nora and Nathan open up the mailbag and make some final predictions for next week's Grammys. They talk about what might happen if Beyoncé once again loses out on Album of the Year (1:00), discuss which category they think has the most potential for an upset (28:14), and make some final predictions for who will win the big four categories (47:18). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J-Lo, Kanye, sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, colon the 2000s. Wow.

That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s, colin the 90s, in the 2000s, preferably on Spotify. Hello and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Princeati, and I am joined, as always, by Nathan Hubbard. For the first of what will be two all-Grami's episodes, we're starting today with the pre-show storylines, answering your questions, and going on the record with some final predictions.

Nathan, you are in Los Angeles. It is Grammy's Week, the show. We're recording this on Tuesday. It'll come out later this week when hopefully you guys will all hear it. And then the show will be Sunday night. Are you feeling the anticipation? Is it teeming in your bones? You know, I think the city is still recovering.

But it is beginning to move on. And, you know, we've talked about this a little bit over the past few weeks. I think there is still joy. there is still wonder in life. And for most people, they're getting back to business and trying to figure out how to pursue that. And I think there's still a lot of people who are displaced. There's still a lot of uncertainty.

But, you know, music is the soundtrack of our lives. And we've spoken about this ad nauseum over the last year plus about how 2024 was a really important year for music. And it's worth celebrating. And so I think while the city is slowly, getting back to some level of normalcy, it's going to take a long time before anything is really normal here. I do think that for most people, this feels like a welcome respite, and the celebrations are more subdued. They seem to have more of a charitable bent to them. But for a lot of people

who have either been directly or indirectly affected by the fires in L.A., you know, this is a reminder that there is joy and there is wonder in life and that music can be a big part of it. of that. So it feels not out of place to be gearing up for music's biggest night. I think how this show sort of contends with and addresses the fires in the aftermath of that is one of the big Grammy storylines, if that's what we're talking about in the first part of our show today. And it, you know, the Grammys have some history of responding to major disasters, tragedies, just events that exist in the world outside of music, even as recently as the COVID show, right? And I thought they did such a good job with that. So I'm interested to see how they handle it.

Like you said, I think the lead-up has been a little bit different than most years. I think the head of the Grammys, Harvey Mason Jr., was on our colleague Matt Bellany's podcast, The Town, talking a little bit about, like, it's not going to look like a tell. But there are definitely going to be some calls to donate if you can. And just some reflections, maybe that's from Trevor Noah. Maybe that's in other ways. Maybe there are some performances that kind of angle themselves that way. Is there anything that you're sort of anticipating? You know, there isn't anything specific. There are, obviously there's this fire aid concert that's going to happen in the next couple of days on the 30th at both the forum and the Intuit Dome, the new home of the clippers that Steve Balmer built. And that's a pretty stacked lineup.

But you know... Yeah, Tate McCray. My girl. There are a lot of people. Olivia, everybody's going to be at this thing. I mean, they're going to... How they're going to handle the dressing room situations. Oh, my goodness.

But that's for a later discussion. I think, you know, there is this other thing that's hanging out there, Nora, that is in two-ish weeks. Go on. And that is the Saturday Night Live 50th anniversary show, which is going to happen not in Los Angeles, but in New York, the Valentine's Day weekend. And there are multiple concerts

that are going to happen around it in addition to some pretty incredible performances that are going to happen during it. And very quietly, there's emerging a little bit bit of a competition to this Grammy event, which to your point, has become a little bit more of a, hey, let's help L.A. and a little bit more of a subdued celebration, they're going to be some really, really cool duets and performances that are stacking up for SNL 50. So at worst, we're in for a treat of great multi-artist concerts over the course of the next two and a half weeks. But I can tell you

that there are some artists who already have their eye on this SNL-50 thing, not necessarily at the expense of the Grammys, but they may be saving up a few special things for, again, as the world has continued to move on a little bit in mid-February. So you're talking about people who any one of these events would love to have perform at the event or in connection with it, and those artists are maybe deciding what makes the most sense for me? Yeah, I think so.

I think, yeah, let's see. I don't think anybody's turning down the opportunity to be supportive of the Grammys or Los Angeles. I don't mean to say it that way. But I do think that there's going to be, let's just call it an interesting encore to the performances that we see over the course of this Fire Aid concert of the Grammys themselves. There'll be a very interesting and I think very compelling encore around Saturday Night Live's 50th anniversary show. Well, and there is, so the fire aid thing is Irving Azoff's thing. And I think they've said and the Grammys have said that there's no, no, you've got to pick one or the other. It's if somebody wants to give their time to both, that's great.

I think the one exception to that. And again, Matt Bellany, who does a great job, was talking about this on his pod, is that I guess his sense is that the NFL has said that they would not like Kendrick to spread himself too thin, which I just think is very classic football being the one place that's like, nope, sorry, we know there was a big disaster, but our game is very important to us. But in general, I think there's a spirit of generosity going around.

I don't know if that has struck you the same. Yeah, it appears to be, yeah. We will get to see. It's funny, I hadn't thought about the SNL 50 in the context of the Grammys and the number of just sort of like big live events. and sort of pop culture phenomenons that we're going to see

within the next few weeks. But that'll be really interesting. There are a bunch of performances that are confirmed for the show. Billy Elish, Benson Boone, Chapel, Charlie, Dochi, Ray, Sabrina Carpenter. Shakira.

Yeah, wow. I did a little bit of a okay. Love me some Shakira, excited to see what she comes out with on Sunday. And then Teddy Swims. Who are you looking forward to seeing? Timothy Shalamee, who's definitely going to be the surprise guest.

Stop it. Stop it. I can't believe you're scooping me on this. I can't believe you're beating me to the take I was the most excited to drop during this pod. There's no doubt it's Tim A. Is there? I mean, okay, here's my question. Well, okay. So this is, we're jumping ahead.

And I am going to ask you to talk about the performances that we know are happening. But in addition to those names, the Grammys have been teasing a special surprise guest. And it's not, it's not Taylor, it's not Beyonce. They will be there, but like, that's not who they're talking about. When they do this, it's often an old person.

It's got to be Dylan with Timé, doesn't it? That's what I think. Timothy Shalamee as Bob Dylan and Bob Dylan as Bob Dylan. Is it a sellout for Bob to do that? Yeah, but isn't Bob's, like Bob is, what is Bob selling? Bob has a weird brand. Yeah, I don't actually think it is a sellout because it's sort of just a tribute to him.

Can we just say, I mean, Tim A on SNL was good. Yeah, Bob Dylan is selling NFTs. Okay. Fair enough. There's a meme coin. There's a Dylan meme coin that's about to drop. Yeah, Bob's up to some stuff. So I think Bob's maybe a little bit more down

to engage with some stuff than his reputation might suggest. But go ahead. Sorry, I needed to go on. I just was pointing out that Tim A was great on SNL. I really liked it. I appreciated that he went with the deep cuts. I appreciated that he put a new interpretation on them.

I thought the show was pretty funny. He definitely energizes that cast. I loved the Adam Sandler intro. Ladies and gentlemen, I love him too. Timothy Shelby. Chimotis-Salome. It was great. That was a terrible Sandler.

Fuck. You know what's happened with Timmy that's really interesting is that for so long, he was, he was sort of for the girlies. And now he has really blossomed and I think the Dylan role is such a smart choice for him because he really...

Well, college game day was what changed it. College game day definitely. College game day was the JJ What era's tour moment of Timothy Chalameh. Oh, I regret bringing up this line of discussion. But I do think you're right. He has really found a way to like blossom into a movie star truly for everyone, including being like very SNL fan dadcore.

And it's just, just welcome, welcome. Big fan of the ringers Bill Simmons too. Yes. And I don't, I mean, I think I think, I think, I think, I think Bill's been in on Timmy for a while. Bill has stuff, I can say that definitively. He's been all in on Timmy. But in general, you know,

I think his fan base has expanded dramatically. And I'm sure that's what he wants. And I think it's really fun. Well, that's what it's got to be. I mean, let's just say that it's not Tim A or Tim A and Bob A together. I mean, who's the other, it's fucking Heidi Montag? Like, who else? Okay, let's take this seriously for a second.

Who could it be? Could it be Madonna? Sure. But why? Big year for pop girlies. Bring out the queen of pop. Right. Like run back Madonna, Christina, and Brittany.

Yeah. That was that was like always a VMA moment, not really a Grammy's moment. Very true. Very true. But even if they didn't reference that specific, The Kiss, there's still a,

there's a pop star lineage thing to be done. could it be... I mean, it could be Beyonce with Willie and Dolly. Sure. Sure. We didn't get that at the Super Bowl halftime show. Could be, you know, Beyonce with Miley.

With Miley? Yeah, there are some options around Beyonce that could be behind that surprise. I just assume that if they're trying to drive ratings and bring people to it, they wouldn't have the surprise be Beyonce. they'd be talking about her performance or they'd be talking about Taylor's performance.

I agree. I agree. Which leads me to believe that neither one of those women is performing because they have not been announced as performers and I just don't, I can't, I have a hard time seeing either one of them doing it. With the exception of, if they got them on the charity angle,

that's how I could see it happening. But I think we would know. listed for fire aid and yeah my look this is the for all of the charitable work and the fires in Illinois like the

underlined baseline story of this Grammys is are they going to give it to Beyonce and we can dress it up in a million different ways what all the storylines and narratives are coming into this award season but it is what we said at the beginning this

album was created in part, in part, not in all, but... But I'm going to be careful. Yeah, this album's destiny has been to try to get Beyonce a Grammy for album of the year. It's not that it was the sole purpose. It clear, like, its sole purpose was the art itself. But since Jay-Z, a year ago at this show, stood up and read the Academy of the Riot Act about his wife being the most nominated, most awarded artists of all time at the Grammys,

but not having an album of the year award, it has felt like the campaign has been building to this. And so are we going to give it to her? And I think when you look at stream counts, when you look at critical reviews, when you look at general fan reception, you can make a case for things other than Cowboy Carter. I am on the record saying that I think Cowboy Carter

is a fantastic, amazing piece of art. but if she does not get it, there is going to be a fairly strong reaction from many quarters of the artists that the Grammys historically have awarded, have brought up on stage, on and on. And I think it has gotten to the point where if Beyonce does not get this album

that you're going to see very visible and vocal protests from artists in the future, the weekend already not submitting, Zach Bryan not submitting, there are going to be a lot of other artists who I think, frankly, just check out of the Grammys as an institution. In a moment in time in which we're checking out

of lots of institutions, Nora, it turns out in America, the Grammys are not, you know, the Kennedy Center, the head of the Kennedy Center just stepped down. Its future seems to be uncertain. That's one of things across politics and media and universities and art that seem to be going under

some kind of transformation in this moment of time, the Grammys are not immune to that. And I think if they do not award this prize to Beyonce, that there are going to be some quarters of artists who step back from this as an institution. And I think the Grammy voters know that. I think the leadership of the Grammy knows that. And what are they going to do?

That's the story of this year. The institution has multiple parts, right? Because the institution, it's the show. It's the people who put on the show. And I would argue that that part of the institution actually seems to be pretty healthy. They just did pretty well selling the long-term rights to it. I believe the viewership numbers have been up. People have really liked some of the recent shows.

But then the other part of the institution being how do people view the voting base and what is anointed and awarded? during the show, that part, I think, is still met with a lot of skepticism. And that is the part where if Beyonce is not awarded, the question becomes, does the skepticism for that half hurt the momentum of the other portion of it? Or is it enough to divert that momentum? Which I have to imagine people who are in power here would really, really like to avoid if they could. I think that's exactly. right. And hey, the flip side is, if she gets this, there will be quarters that criticize this as a lifetime achievement granting of a Grammy because, you know, she didn't do the work or whatever the

criticism is going to be. She didn't go out and tour it. Where were the videos? And this wasn't even received all that. Like, you can build an analytical mathematical case for some other albums. Now, you better be careful when you do that. People will be mad either way. That's it. Like it's just, it's going to be another one, you know, outrage bait that gets thrown out there.

I think objectively, if Beyonce had won this prize before in her career, we'd have a neck and neck race for album of the year right now. And it would be between, in my opinion, Cowboy Carter, it would be,

hit me hard and soft. And I think you might even have brat in that conversation with an outside chance of Sabrina in the mix here. So the good news is we're talking about a lot of highly qualified candidates for this prize. There is this subtext that is not very subtle of the drama around Beyonce that is going to drive the whole night. We shall see. I'm not even so sure that that neck and neck race doesn't exist even with that context. Well, I think it does.

I think it absolutely does. even if you filter out the political part of it, it exists. And so that's fun and something that is certainly going to keep me leaned in through the course of the whole telecast. Yeah. No, there's a ton of anticipation. I really, like, you know, I'm going to write about it. And sometimes there are certain things where you sort of try to pre-write things. And this is one where we just really don't know,

particularly with the potential opportunities for vote splitting. So it is a really anticipated result. I do think it's probably going to up. upset people either way. But I would like to lean into the fun of that, the uncertainty, the mystery. We're going to learn something. Yeah, I just hope that all of that big mad, and again, part of the point of Cowboy Carter was to elicit this exact conversation and to bring up the feelings. How does white America react to a black woman releasing a country album? How do they react to the history lesson. All of those things are really fascinating. It's part of the art. It really is. This whole show and the

tension around it is. While it is the headline and it is the main storyline, I just really hope that the and I believe that the great year that we had in music, particularly in female pop in 2024, doesn't get lost. And I think that's where these performances that you listed before sort of reassured me that Chapel's going to get her day. And across the board, we're just, we're going to hear from a lot of the artists who shaped a really important year in music. I'm excited to see what Dochi does with that spot. I think, you know, Charlie and Chapel in particular, two people who I would say are on the slightly, you know,

sharper-edged side of artists who would end up performing during a Grammy broadcast. What they're going to choose to do with that platform is interesting to me. Like, Charlie has always been this sort of, she's been a real outsider to institution. like the Grammys. She's now being really welcomed in. And how she chooses to use that, I will be, you know,

I'm obviously like really in the bag for her and just such a fan of her always, but this year in particular. But I can't wait to see what she does with that spot. And, you know, Shakira, what is going to happen with that? There are so many things that we do not know now that we will know by the end of Sunday night. Yeah. I am really with you that I don't want. I think the Beyonce narrative is fascinating.

It is the top storyline for the show. I hope it doesn't totally overshadow the other things that are going to be really interesting and cool to see over the course of the show. That's a good segue into the first question from our mailbag, which is from T. Zast, who asked for the category outside the big ones, I'm taking that to mean the big four of album song record of the year and then best new artist. that we're most excited for. Do you have one? Yeah, I do. It's Best Country Album. And it's because...

It's still about Beyonce. It's still about Beyonce, but it is like a murderer's row. It's Cowboy Carter. It's Post Malone's F1 trillion. It's Casey Musgraves Deeper Well. It's higher by Chris Stapleton. And it's Whirlwind by Lainey Wilson,

who's the defending champ in this category. So these are, five high quality albums, some of whom are, you know, at least two of in Post and Beyonce are not native to the category. Casey, I would argue, maybe doesn't even belong here in this category, depending on how you think about her music. But all five albums are of the extreme highest quality, and there are winners scattered throughout. So this is going to tell us a lot about who wins this. And I do think there is a chance that somebody else other than Beyonce wins Best Country Album and Beyonce still wins album of the year. So I wouldn't necessarily

look at this as a harbinger of what's to come, but it's an important category in and of itself without the Beyonce situation just because listen to the names on that list. Yeah, there's a world in which country music has a huge night. And then Nashville kind of gets shut out, right? Like sort of traditional Nashville country is really not a big part of that. But these other artists who have sort of come in, they win everything.

Or it could go the other way. We really just don't know. And it is to your, correct me if I'm wrong, you are the expert here, but it's a different, the country people vote for the country awards. Everybody votes for the big ones, but the country people vote for the country awards.

So when you say that it's not necessarily a harbinger of what's to come, that is very literal in the sense that it's not the same people voting. Some of them, but it's not all of them. Yeah. And I mean, this could have been, there are cases to be made that each of these albums in the Best Country album category, you could make case for album in the year for each of them. I think some are going to be stronger than others, but they're all excellent listens.

I'm not sure. I love Post Malone, Nathan. I'm not sure you can make an album of the year case for the Post Malone album that had like half a Post Malone song. it. Well, okay, but I think that album holds up, man. I love it. I love them. I'm just saying. I had some help. I mean, there are some winners. There's some songs on that on that album that have had some staying power for sure. And the fact that it's here, you know, this is this is its chance to get the award. I was a little tiny bit surprised it didn't get an album of the year nomination, especially given the other two male nominations,

Jacob Collier and the Andre 3,000 flute album. So, but, you know, I appreciate it. Keep the Grammys weird. That's what I say. But this category is really cool. It's going to be fun to see what happens. And I think you bring up a really great point, which is this could be a cool night for Nashville.

It really could. I think it will, my point is that it could be or it could be the opposite, right? Like it could be a big night for country artists who are mostly functioning outside of the core of the center

of the sort of country music machine. Yeah, but that it could also send a signal that, and again, this could be impact of what Beyonce and Post in particular did this year. It could be a signal that what we traditionally think of as

country and Nashville is much broader than what most of the listening public, at least historically, would have pigeonholed as. Right. And I think that in and of itself could be great for the genre, great for the town, great for the industry. Sure. I have a couple. The first one is that I would really like to see Amy Allen win songwriter of the year. Nice. I just think, you know, I mean, first of all, the triptych of espresso, please, please, please, and taste. I know I'm up to have a fun idea, babe. Maybe just stay inside. I know you're craving some fresher, but the ceiling fan is so nice.

Got been there done that once or twice and singing about it, don't mean I care. Yeah. Deserves to be awarded. And so I think that would be a big one. I would cheer very hard for that. The other one is that I'm not ready to totally give up on Brat and the big categories yet, but I will say, I think. the dance electronic feels like as close to a slam dunk as you get in these things. And I am

excited to see Charlie XX win a Grammy. I'm just very, very excited for that. I'm excited for her night. So I think those are the two for me. Do you think she vapes on stage during her acceptance speech? I just don't know what she's going to do on stage. And I can't wait to find out. I don't think that she will vape. Darn. But... that's what you're voting for. No, no. I'm with you. I think that's probably a slam dunk for sure.

And I think this album deserves to be recognized for the reasons that we've discussed many times on this podcast, not just the marketing genius that set it up because that's not what this is about. But it is a deep album about very shallow things. But then in moments, it's a shallow album about very deep things.

But in a good way somehow. Yeah, I don't need to wax poetic about Brad anymore, but I'm just, I'm excited to hear her give a speech. You know, I just, it's going to be really satisfying, I think, to see her have that moment. So that's a big one for me. Second question, rigid. Best album campaign efforts, sort of related to the last thing that we were just talking about in recent history. And what I wanted to ask you here is the ways in which a specific Grammy campaign, like a campaign, like a campaign, to the voters differs

from a general album campaign, right? Like, Brat had an incredible rollout. But is that in and of itself the Grammy campaign, or is there more behind the scenes that people do to sort of lobby the specific voters? Yeah, this is like presidential candidates trying to win over delegates or big party fundraisers,

or this is absolutely a political thing that artists can choose to play or not to play. I mean, I do not know whether or not Charlie X, EX actually did this. But I heard that she lobbied directly to the head of the Grammys to make sure that her album did not get pulled into pop and stayed in dance and electronic, because I think presumably she had a better chance of winning there. And, you know, whether or not that story's true or not,

the fact that it's out there is an indication of what happens. I mean, at the Grammy Museum, many, many nights a year. There are concerts that happen there that are effectively kissing the ring and giving a little hat tip to the Grammy voters and the folks in the academy to just introduce them to artists. So, yes, there is both public posturing and behind the scenes moving and shaking to try to position yourself with voters that happens on a regular basis. and it's done by the artists. It's done in conjunction with labels and managers who are just trying to get recognition here. And, you know, ironically now, I think

it's not like winning the Grammy moves streaming numbers that much. And so in some ways, that's made it less of an economic imperative and much more of ego slash accomplishment imperative. This used to be something that labels were desperate for because now, of course, if you win album of the year, your stream count's going to go up. But it doesn't make or break the economics of an album usually. You know, when Bonnie Raite won song of the year,

I promise you her streaming of that song went up, but it's not like everybody got rich because she won song of the year. It was much more of a recognition of a great songwriter regardless of whether or not you agreed with that decision from the academy. We got, we had another question. I'll skip ahead a little bit from Kayla. that was essentially, does any of this matter?

The actual question was, any artist nominated you think would particularly benefit from a Grammy win career-wise? And there were a couple other questions that were on the same theme to that point. I think it depends on the artist. I think in general, my sense would be that it doesn't really matter that much.

I think it probably matters more, like somebody who came to mind as someone who I do, think it mattered for was Casey Musgraves. Sure. Because I think Casey, for where she is, the fact that Casey will always be an album of the year winner, I do think, I don't want to say legitimizes her because she's, she doesn't, she's perfectly legitimate either way.

But I do think that there's a little bit of a weight to it. There's, I think, probably critically, just more anticipation for whatever she does. that would have a really long tail. I don't want to say that it would last forever if she made five stinker albums in a row, but she's Casey Mouse Graves. She's not going to do that. And so I think for someone like that,

it probably does make some amount of quasi-tangible difference. I doubt it, you know, doubles her audience or something like that, right? Like, it's less than that. For someone like, you know, Okay, has it made a difference for Taylor to be the person to win album of the year the most times ever? Well, I think it would hurt her career if she wins it this time. I agree. I think there would be so much blowback.

I agree. People would be like, get this person out of my, off my screen, especially with the Super Bowl that follows. It would be the worst. She, I think, secretly is hoping to not win. Well, no, it's Taylor. She's hoping to win it. But she knows because she knows things that winning this would be bad for her from a public image perspective. I mean, I would even, I don't think that Billy deals with the same

oversaturation questions that Taylor does. I wonder if you gave Billy Elish truth serum if she has a pit in her stomach about what might happen Sunday night. Because we've seen... Adele felt terrible. Adele felt terrible. Adele cried. And I'm very humbled and I'm very grateful and gracious,

but my artist of my life is Beyonce in this album for me. The lemonade album was just. Just so monumental, Beyonce. It was so monumental. Harry had a little bit of an awkward moment. I'm just so... This doesn't happen to people like me very often, and this is so, so nice.

Thank you very much. I think the earlier ones, it was a little bit less of a thing. Yeah. Now it's a thing more than ever. Another question... And Billy feels it, and she shows it, and I think that's a very, very insightful point.

Billy is nervous about this. We're skipping around now because everything is sort of connecting back to all of these really good questions. But we had another question that was from art, which was, if Billy or anyone who's not Beyonce wins album of the year, do you think that they will have? The question was phrased, will they have to acknowledge her? What I'm asking you is, do you think they will acknowledge her? Yes. Ooh, I don't know. How do you do that without sounding really condescending?

Yeah, I I mean, now I'm staring at the people who would receive this award. I mean, if it's Jacob Collier, he's not even going to know where he is. If it's Andre 3000, you know, he'll, I think he would probably

pay tribute there. Maybe Sabrina or Charlie yeah, go in the opposite, or even chapel, go in the opposite direction and are just so sort of surprised. That's the thing, is if it's not them, somebody's going to be absolutely surprised. And so you're going to get just off the cuff,

holy moly general reaction. I'm so flattered to be, you know, somebody will acknowledge the nominees, but maybe it won't be a Dell type, Beyonce, I'm so sorry, tears kind of thing. Maybe we don't get that. I think that's off the table, and I think it's off the table for a couple of reasons.

One, the album that Adele beat was Lemonade. Rolling Stone just named it the number one album of the 2000s, by the way. Yeah. Of this century, by the way. And I think a couple of people asked variations of which was the year when Beyonce should have won. You know, people point to the Beck year. I think, and I love Harry's House, but I think Harry's House, Harry's House is probably relatively weak as an album of the year winner.

Renaissance was not probably as strong as Lemonade, but 25 by Adele was maybe better competitive. So it is complicated. It's probably, it's one of those. It is. But for the way that Lemonade moved culture and the way that that album was received, and also the fact that this wasn't something

that had happened quite as many times at that point, Adele got to react in a way that, like, no one had sort of channeled this is happening. I feel a certain way about it. And now I'm in this surprising position. And I'm going to react to that in front of a microphone. I think that's off the table because it's happened already. It's weird to do it again. Harry didn't do it.

And then the addition... I mean, it's become some Susan Lucci type shit. Yeah. If you just keep acknowledging her. Yeah, I mean, look, if it was, if it was my client, I would advise them to go up and express gratitude to the academy. Absolute shock and surprise. You know, so what a year for music. These things are arbitrary.

I'm so grateful. Thank you, love you. Bye. I mean, like, you just don't. And I think if you're Beyonce, you don't want that calling out. Because at that point, by the way, she's probably already in the limo. And you don't want to have the, like, you know, you don't want basically someone calling out. I'm sorry you always lose, right?

Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, we don't need to be feeling sorry for Beyonce. Let's be clear about that. No. Beyonce got a pretty good life. Good things have had to Beyonce. She's earned them and she's gifted and blessed. Let's say that to be clear.

No, and this is all, you know, everybody's going to put on makeup and dresses and have a night out and like, that's fine. But there is an awkwardness to it. And especially because, you know, if if it's, Billy, if it's one of the pop girls, white artist accepting the award. I think exactly what you said, if you were advising one of these people, because our favorite pastime is to career direct people who probably have this pretty well handled. Yeah. Short and sweet. To borrow a phrase, you keep it short. You probably, I guess what you probably do is you acknowledge what a great year in music

it was. And then there's a way to say, Beyonce, most Grammys of all time, you know, deserves a big recognition, honor to be in a category with you, and then you just move it along. But I think it's a tough. I mean, Taylor, Allison Swift is in the crowd, too, and you just beat her, too. So you've just won against a whole bunch of legends if your name is not Taylor or Beyonce. and you get this award. And even Billy, who's won this before. I mean, if you're not one of those three and you win, you got every right to be up there and be like,

I can't believe I got this given everybody who's up here. And you wouldn't necessarily need to single out Beyonce. So I'm with you that the right move is definitely not to single out Beyonce, both for the artist who wins and for Beyonce. Who knows? It will somewhat depend on whether this narrative that we're talking about crescendos through the course of the week, But yeah, I mean, there's going to be a lot of tea leaf reading in some of the, you know, pop vocal album and those kinds of categories, right? I mean, pop vocal album is short and sweet against hit me hard and soft, against eternal sunshine, against tortured poets, against rise and fall, the Midwest princess. So we're going to learn a little bit there about how a portion of the electorate is feeling. You know, I, but we're, we're, we're. We're, we're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. But we're. We're. We're. We're. But we're. We're. We're. But we're. We're. We're. We're. But we're. We're. We're. We're

we're not really going to know that much about where these things are leaning because you've got brat sitting in dance electronic and you've got Beyonce sitting in country. Other than pop vocal, that'll give us a sense, but I'm going to be pretty surprised if, well, I guess I won't. I guess I won't. Because there too, I think you could get a best pop vocal win that isn't Billy, and Billy could still win album of the year. If she does win that category, how will it make you feel for the others, for the big ones?

Yeah, it'll make me feel that there's not going to be an upset. It's going to be Billy versus Beyonce. That makes sense. That makes sense. I think Brat is wonderful, and I'm glad it's in there. I don't think that a split vote, oh, geez, now this is famous last words. Dang it. But I think

The vote splitting potential is really high. That's why this is crazy. It's really high. I mean, one thing that in the question that was about the album campaign, one of the things that came up for me was like, isn't the answer to this in some ways, at least for this year, like Andre 3000?

Because I'm not saying that this is an actual prediction. Like, I don't think this is happening. I think this is crazy. But like, again, the potential for vote split is so high. Yeah. I think Sabrina has an outside chance

if that really happens. I think that short and sweet... But isn't she just as likely to be victimized by... Victimized, so dramatic. But isn't she most likely just as likely to be hurt

by vote splitting among the pop girlies as anyone else? This is the Bonnie Rate Win' Song of the Year vote splitting situation. Yes, I suppose she is. I suppose she is. But I think if people rank order their stuff,

and there is enough vote splitting between Beyonce and Billy, that I think Sabrina comes in third. And it has felt like... Taylor Swift is not winning this award. Yeah, I feel very strongly that that is true. Taylor has a 0% chance of winning this award, because if she does have a chance of winning this award, I think behind the scenes,

she wants to make sure she... You know, her people and label probably want to make sure that she doesn't. Even if somewhere in Taylor, she's like, I give it to me. I want five. I'm also not sure that, I mean, yeah, no, I just don't think that it's possible. I'm not sure that even if they were doing some amount of lobbying, I think there's an idea that I've heard go around a little bit that just like the Grammys love to award her based on.

when she's ubiquitous and when she's having the most commercial success and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not so sure just based on some of the critical reception to tortured poets. That's not the Grammys, but I think there's a correlation. I just don't think that she has a lot of support this year, which is fine.

She's won many, many Grammys and has immense and perhaps unparalleled success. She doesn't need to win. It's fine. She does not need to win this. Question from the real Ryan Ritter. Alliteration. Which category do you two think slash feel has the most potential for a chaotic upset?

I think it's album of the year. Yeah. It is album of the year. You're right. Because like, okay, Beyonce wouldn't be in, Beyonce wouldn't feel like an upset. Billy also wouldn't feel like an upset. But they would both be chaotic in their own way. And then outside of that,

I do think that there's the potential that something really crazy happens. Like, I think with the exception of Jacob Collier, I really have a hard time saying for sure that anyone else nominated is definitely not winning this award. And I'm sorry to Jacob Collier, but I just don't think that you're winning album of the year. Apologies.

But like the Andre 3000 flute album could win album of the year. It's like not that crazy. If everybody else... Well, because how did it get here? It's got some kind of... Yes. Support. Yes.

Absolutely. It's the type of... It's an artist that the Grammys really care about. It is the type of venture that, you know, seems creative and ambitious and different. And I can see that having enough support that if all the ladies, you know, pull people in different directions, all of a sudden... Can you imagine? It would be utter chaos.

Yeah. I mean, you know, yeah, it's fair. The Beatles are nominated. Do you know that? Yes. Well, is it the Beatles, though? Well, it says the Beatles. Yeah, but it's...

Yeah, but it's... Right, right, right. Like the Beatles beating Fortnite, good luck, babe, not like us, Birds of a Feather, 360, espresso, Texas, Hold'em, is the thing the Grammys could do. That feels somewhat chaotic to me. That would also be very chaotic. Hey, let's throw one to Paul one last time here.

Any chance? Okay. Any chance that happens? And then Paul is the special guest? I don't know. I look, you know, somebody asked a really good question before, which is like who, whose career would benefit But, you know, I think Kendrick winning for not like us, either on record or on song.

The audience not dumb. Shape the stories how you want. Hey, trade. They're not slow. Rabbit hole is still deep. I can go further. I promise. Ain't there something be rest.

That's for bitch. And you melibou most want it. And then, you know, a week later going in front of the world on the Super Bowl, you'd quietly suddenly have a peak Kendrick moment. Yeah. for sure. Although I will, we can talk about this more when we do productions,

but I don't know why it feels to me like he's lost some momentum. I remember when we talked about Song of the Year and Record of the Year back in November, I guess, when nominations came out. When we were talking about the top four categories, we felt pretty sure that in those, two, one was going to be espresso and one was going to be not like us. And now I feel pretty sure that espresso is going to win song in the year.

And I am not sure that Kendrick is going to win a big award. Do you feel differently? I still think they're going to give it to him for song. And I think... And then Sabrina would get espresso. Yeah, I think Sabrina's going to get espresso. I think that's... I think espresso is the stronger entry.

I like that they did, please, please, please for song. But I think, I mean, not like us was a pretty, pretty big track. Okay. And I think a lot of the, hey, the lawsuit stuff happened after the fact, after the votes were in. So that drama isn't there. And it's just about whether there's any kind of behind the scenes. Again, behind the scenes string pulling to, in response to the law. lawsuit. But I think it's going to win. I really do. I think Sabrina's going to win

for record for espresso, and I think not like us is going to win song. I think I would be happy to see that happen. I think both are deserving. I think both had such cultural salians that I would like to see them awarded. But who's going to win if you think if you think he's lost it? Are you now on the die with a smile train? I mean, that's what's going to kill me. That's what's going to kill me. Me first, but stranger things have happened.

You're pulling me back, I guess. If you're still confident in it, then I want to jump on, I want to be moved by that and feel confident. I think it's the most wide open of the four. Let me put it that way. I really do. You think it's more wide open than album of the year? Well, I think you can make a strong,

wide open. It's just undecided. Yeah, the Shibuzi song. I think Tipsy is in the mix. I know your reservations with it. Yeah, I think that's crazy. But that's okay.

Yeah. I told you that I think not like us is going to win song of the year. I actually don't. I really don't. And I don't know why I said that. I'm looking at it and here's what I really, yes. Birds of a Feather is Song of the Year, and it's going to win song of the year

because Beyonce's going to win album of the year. And that's how the mind of the Grammy voter is going to ultimately sort of check all the boxes that they need to check. Sabrina's going to get record. Sabrina's going to get record. Beyonce's going to get album. Billy's going to get song.

Chapel's going to get Best New Artist. And Kendrick is going to get boxed out. And I think you're right. For that reason, he's going to get boxed out. They've done it before. They're going to do it again. they're going to make themselves feel better about boxing out Kendrick, because they're going to make themselves feel better about boxing out Kendrick because they gave it to

Beyonce. Not the greatest vote of confidence in the process, but I don't disagree with you on the results. That's what's going to happen. And then Kendrick is going to go crush the Super Bowl. And in the mind of the voters and the Grammy establishment, they're going to say, well, okay, so we did, at some point we'll have to award. Kendrick, his flowers. But tonight at least we check the box with Beyonce.

But okay, so since you now agree with me that we could see Birds of a Feather win Song of the Year before we get to album, it sounds like to the point we were talking about earlier, that would make you feel more like the voters were able to award Billy here and therefore it's more likely to, it feels like it's building to a Beyonce moment

for album of the year, more so than they're all in on Billy. They just want to vote for Billy. They love Billy. That's how I would feel, I think. Yeah. But again, this line of thinking and the way that we're talking about it

is an indication of the politics and the, you know, that go into the process as opposed to it being just sort of an objective assessment of greatness year in and year out, right? Yeah. But it's not. So that's why the lobbying matters. It's why coaches in sports yell at referees.

It's the same idea, which is these are ultimately human beings who make these decisions. I think I can manipulate the outcome by playing psychological tricks on them and applying different forms of pressure. That's what's happening here. And I think that's probably how a lot of voters are thinking as they look at this. The good news, again, is that there are lots of worthy winners this year. I hope that the flute album doesn't win. No offense, because I love Andre 3000. I hope that Jacob Collier doesn't win.

Wow, no love for the flute. But I would accept in a year of pop girl spring and summer, I would accept anything for Billy, for Charlie, for Sabrina, for Chapel, for Beyonce. And I guess, Taylor. We did get a question for Maddie, just asking for an explanation of the difference. between song and record of the year one more time,

which I will just do as a public service announcement because it is so confusing. Record of the year is the song as a finished product recording. It honors basically everyone from the artist to the producers. Think about it as the song that went out into the world and how it was received. So there's a reason that we think that that's going to be espresso, right? Because that was the record of the year.

I would normally say the song of the year, speaking colloquially, but I'm not saying that right now because I don't want it to be confusing. Song of the year is the songwriting award. It's for the nuts and bolts composition of the song. This is the category where the Sabrina entry, for example, was please, please, please. So a little bit more of like an intricately constructed song, right, whereas espresso is just sort of this phenomenon. I'm not singling Sabrina out to make any particular prediction based on the, two different categories just because I think it's a helpful example to tell the two apart. So that's the answer. Well done. You can just hear we've waffled a little bit through the course of this. I blame

myself because I sort of forgot what I had baked my mind into and it still is the most plausible outcome to me. Between song and record, I think there are a couple of, there are a couple of could go either ways. I do think the Academy is going to recognize Sabrina. And I think the Academy wants to recognize Billy, but I think the Academy wants to give this album of the year award to Beyonce. And that's what they're going to do. Wow. I'm not totally sure about that. Can't wait to be super

fucking wrong. I'm not totally sure about that. I agree with you on the Sabrina part. I do think it's interesting that the one the one position that I'm that I had when we did our way too early predictions that I'm just off now is I thought Kendrick was a shoe in and I just don't think that anymore

because I do think that birds of a feather would is more likely to win in the record. Who's winning album of the year? I'm sticking with Billy. Yeah. I just

they love her. I just think they love her. I would like to be wrong, even though I think that that's a wonderful album. No, I would like to be wrong. I think that's the one I'd give it to. Yeah, but you like that album more than I do. Okay.

So you think it's Billy. Record, we have no debate. We have no debate over Best New Artist. I mean, if Chapel Roan doesn't win Best New Artist, it's crazy. It's going to be unbelievable. That would be the moment when I'm like, what the fuck is going on tonight?

It would be really strange. that that feels like the easiest like Benson Boone getting Best New Artist Oh my God I would I would not be happy Right

It could be in for some weird shit That's the telltale sign Best New Artist comes early If Benson Boone wins Best New Artist over Chablerone Like we need to call an accounting firm Like we need an investigation Yeah it's just gonna be a signal

That shit got weird Yeah Yeah I mean really weird If Benson Boone wins best new artists, no one, like all of our predictions are out the window. I've upset you. That's what I'm saying. Okay, so Chapel's winning that.

Album of the year, we agree it's between Beyonce and Billy. You know, I think I would give the award to Billy, but I think I think Beyonce is going to get it. Where are you on record? I think I would give the award to Beyonce, but I think Billy's going to get it. Okay. Where are you on record?

I think Birds of a Feather is going to win. Not espresso. So you think Sabrina's going to get shut out? Who's winning song? I'm so sorry. I flipped those. I think that Byrds is winning song. I'm not doing anything to stop making this confusing. I think birds is winning song and espresso is winning record. Okay. Yeah, we're aligned there. We're aligned. It's really aligned on everything except Balma of the year. Yeah. Yeah. So there in and of itself is the one that's going to be the most chaotic. I'm really glad we worked our way through this. I hope that. I hope that. our audience is not completely confused at this point about where we stand. But hopefully we have had enough miss speaks in this pod that we can declare victory no matter who wins, unless it's... I did really appreciate that question that was just like, can you just say this one more time?

Because it's so confusing. Clearly, we agree. I also am confused by it. I do have a couple more. We've sort of done our predictions now, but I have a couple more questions for you. Okay. One of them is from Brittany. It is what do you think that Taylor will wear? Will it be rep coded, will it be new era coded? This is not for me. I mean, what she wore to the football game, what she wore to the football game on Sunday, it's almost time for an intervention.

I mean, I know it costs a lot, but maybe I'm not speaking for you. Did you like the outfit on Sunday? I mean, what do I know? I was actually not even going to use this space as an opportunity for me to throw up my hands, but no, I, I, I, we need an intervention.

You know what I thought looked great at the game? I thought her mom. Mom looked awesome. Andrea looked fantastic. Andrea looks fantastic. Her hair is gorgeous. Just like great, simple red coat. She's doing the wayfarers all the time.

They're becoming like a staple. Looks great. Loved it. I don't want to see another Gucci, Louis Vuitton, or Chanel logo for the rest of the winter. Like, I'm sorry, but we got to, we got to pull it back. We absolutely have to pull it back. It's just like, I don't, why? I don't understand why.

She never used to do this. I really don't understand why it's become like logomanio all of a sudden. And I have to be honest, I do think it's Travis. Because I don't think Travis has ever seen a Gucci logo he didn't like. Jesus. It's not a cry. Like, it's not hurting anyone. I'm just like, she didn't use to dress like this.

I don't know what to say. Right. Yeah. So everything that I see. said at the start of this particular part of the podcast was all geared towards getting you to say exactly what you just said. I have no dog in this hunt. I have no strong set of viable opinion on this other than getting you to speak your mind. And you're not alone. I am seeing the chatter out there. The styling might need an intervention. Again, I have no idea. I mean, it's also like

these these the huge you know the LVMH brands and all of these huge high end luxury brands are not at a high point in terms of how people feel about them that's both from like a quality perspective I think given a lot of the economic feelings that most people have there's sort of an out of touchness to it and and there have just been a lot of like she wore that Chanel outfit that and in fairness, I saw today, I was looking at, she wore a Chanel outfit the last time around. That was from a recent collection that was really, really, really not well received. And I will say that in fairness, I was looking at Instagram today. And I saw Doolipa, my girl, who I always think looks great, wearing something else from that collection.

So it's not just Taylor, but I really think that it's not, it's not. appealing to people in general to be wearing a mostly cotton outfit, like something that is a sweatshirt, but it costs $5,000 because it has this stupid print all over it. Like it's just, I just, it's sort of mind-boggling to me. And I think it bothers me additionally because, again, I've not always been the biggest fan of some of Taylor's fashion choices, but like she didn't used to do this. She didn't used to go around wearing the like big crazy logos. I just, I don't get it.

However, I, style icon Andrea. That's what I'm here to say. But also, that's a game day thing. I don't think that that's as much of a problem like for a event like the Grammys where she'll wear a gown. My actual answer to this question is I think it will be rep coded because she's a troll. Yeah, but what if she just wears what Melania wore to the inauguration? Like the hat and the black and white.

And everybody's like, oh, shit. I mean, that's what some, like, that's not what some of this feels like. It's not, it's honestly not at all what some of this feels like. But there is a, I just think that is another example of how much skepticism there is in the current cultural moment of a lot of these highest tier of brands. and for that moment to be the moment that Taylor is choosing to wear those brands logos most prominently is strange to me. Like, I'm confused by it. And again, I don't think that it is always, like, I don't like some of the super big over-the-need boots that she wears.

But she's always done that. I know that she likes that. And if she likes that, then, like, on a certain level, more power to her she should wear what she wants to wear. She has not always done this. This is a relatively new phenomenon, and it, boggles my mind. That was cathartic for me. You feel better now? Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. Here's another Taylor question that I, that is like less angsty for me. Is Travis coming? I don't think so. I would be surprised. Week before the Super Bowl, I just, I don't think you could, I think that's a hard thing to pull off. And assuming that she is not accompanied, my question is, is she going to,

interact with the other, like, what is her vibe going to be when she is surrounded by all of these other artists who have had these big years in a year when she had this huge year, they've been part of Pop Girl Spring and Summer together. But I haven't felt like Taylor has been in conversation or sort of like in the same ecosystem with Charlie Chapel. And more recently, Sabrina, too, in some ways, although obviously a little earlier, that was obviously different. And so I'm curious to see what that feels like when they're all together. Like, is she going to be, you know, are we going to be getting all the cutaways and she's going to be dancing during the performances?

Are we going to see little snippets of video of Charlie and Taylor whispering to each other? Or is that, you know, do we, do we not, is that a. against 1975 bro code. I don't know. I'm just really curious to see less actually what she's wearing and more how much she interacts with the other nominees

from the pop side of things. Well, I got to imagine she's going to be sitting closest to Sabrina. Now, she and Beyonce supported each other in their movies, so they're obviously close. It would break the cameras to have them next to each other.

But yeah, I mean, I, there's a whole lot of interpersonal relationships in this album of the year nominee list. So let's see the seating arrangement is going to be just as fascinating. Do you think she'll talk to chapel? 100%. Like, what's that going to be? But like, I do think that if you're Taylor Swift, when you go up to Chapel Rhone, you have to on some level understand that that, that interaction, anything could happen. Yeah. I don't think they've met.

Yeah. I don't either. I don't have any reason to think that they have. In person. I mean, Taylor's pretty busy. So is Chappell. Yeah. And if Chappell doesn't, I mean, you know, Taylor's never done anything wrong by Chappell and maybe they're big fans of each other and it would be a really, really charming love fest. I would love to see it. Again, if Chapel feels a certain way, we know that that's going to be expressed.

And so it invites a certain lack of control that generally I don't associate with with Taylor putting herself in those situations. So I would be fascinated. I'm more interested to see the Charlie Taylor interaction because of sympathy as a knife. Yeah. Yeah.

All kinds of drama. Even if they just take a photo, like Charlie and Taylor taking a photo, Chapel and Taylor taking a photo, it would provide me with just endless opportunities to way overanalyze, like, body language and stuff. Let's get the seating arrangements right. Let's get all of the camera angles right. The VMAs do this very well with the Taylor cam. This would be a particularly interesting night for all of those camera angles.

and so we say to everyone who's going to be in the building, get the fan footage in case that the ABC cameras don't get it. Please, please. Okay, two more. Second or last one, Miss Megan Rose. Best snacks for watching the Grammys. I want a snack recommendation from you, Nathan Hubbard. You know, somebody said,

I saw something on Twitter that Tate McCray keeps trying to warm up Nelly Furtado's nachos but the microwave doesn't work? I saw that tweet. That was a great post. It was a great tweet.

And it's, first of all, accurate. And second of all, the answer is nachos. The answer is always nachos when you're talking about snacks with me. Wow, I don't think I knew that. I had a conversation with my friends a couple of months ago about um,

Grammys, potential Grammys themed food items like a cowboy carcoutaree board, Carter, Carter Coutary board or Chapel coat durone as a beverage pairing.

Sure. I mean, dry January is going to be over. So you can dive in if that's what you choose. I don't know. Is there a snack for Grammys? I just, just, I'm having a cowboy

carcouree board and you're having nachos asked an answer. Yeah, I'm having nachos. But the truth is it's going to be about past the popcorn because we got a lot of, a lot of subtext this year. Okay. Last thing. Grata's question. This is a good one to end on. Do you think any announcements will come from any artists at the event? No, everybody saw what Taylor did last year and the reaction to it. And no, people are going to figure out that that was misperiodessex. placed and that this should be a show that is either celebrating music or comforting, much or encouraging, let's call it, donations to the victims of the fires in Los Angeles. There's going to be no place for commercialization this year.

I mostly agree. I think in a funny way, as historic of an event as it would be if Beyonce won, I can see her launching the tour. If the tour launch got mixed up, I can see you're doing it or doing it immediately after. Right? It doesn't come up in the speech, but the second the night is over,

the links go like blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. In general, I agree with your sentiment. I think people will lean away from that. Is that it? We did it. We answered every question anyone could possibly have about the Grammys. I'm sorry for being super wrong. Can't wait to talk about it in a week

and figure out how these... I mean, the future of the Grammys is actually at stake in a very interesting, fun way. So let's see what they do. It's going to give us a lot to talk about next week, too. So look forward to that. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Preciati. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to the one and only Kaia McMullen for producing this episode and to you for listening. We'll talk to you next week.