Every Single Album - Grammy’s Winners and Losers

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Nora and Nathan get into all their winners and losers from the Grammys, including Taylor Swift’s very fun night of winning by not winning, Chappell Roan's and Charli XCX’s performances, Kendrick Lamar reigning supreme, Beyoncé's big win, and so much more. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producers: Sasha Ashall and Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up? This is Chris Ryan. On Mondays and Thursdays, you can find me co-hosting The Watch with Andy Greenwald. We are still cranking it out. We talk about a lot of things in pop culture, music, movies, but most of all are ever-changing TV landscape. So check out the watch. For recaps of your favorite TV shows, updates on the streaming wars, and recommendations on what to watch, because there's a lot to watch on Mondays and Thursdays on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to every single album post-Gramies edition. I am Nora Pryanti, and as always, I am joined by Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, how are you doing on this fabulous Monday? Different recording time for us. It's the Make Amends Grammys. I'm great. That was a good show.

It went well. Everyone's feeling good. We're all in a good mood. We needed a good break. We needed something good to happen. We did. inexplicably the Grammys handled it well. Yeah.

No, it's really amazing. I mean, we're going to do some winners and losers from the show as our episode today as a way of recapping everything that happened. And maybe we'll talk a little, you know, fire aid, just everything that's been going on in LA this week in music, maybe a little bit of Super Bowl at the end. But in general, winners and losers is our theme. And I feel like we can just say that the Grammys, the Recording Academy as a whole, kind of came out of this a winner.

Like, the show was fun. I think everybody feels good about a lot of the outcomes and it felt representative of the year in music. Yeah, I mean, there was a moment at 8 o'clock where I was like,

oh, shit, we are not close to being done. There was a moment at around 11 o'clock when I thought, well, this is a time zone thing for us. Yes. It was a long show, but it ended on a high note, I would say. Yeah, they did a good job.

It felt fresh. There didn't feel like there was a, ton of filler. Saving the Charlie performance for the end, for example, injected a whole bunch of energy, very smart. Starting with Billy. I mean, it just, it was an uncharacteristically tasteful and well done show. Again, could have been a little bit shorter, but I thought Trevor Noah was great. I thought most of the camera angles were great, although MTV, the video music words have it figured out. Like, VMAs do a much better job of just training some cameras in. on the tables in the front.

There were a lot of interesting interactions to happen in that crowd of which we only got a small fraction from, thankfully, fans who were on it in the crowd zooming in. There were some Olivia Sabrina hugging. There was some Billy Beyonce hugging. I mean, I didn't see a lot of Charlie Taylor interaction,

but who knows? Taylor was interacting with everybody. Taylor was on one last night. I mean, The high functioning alcoholic is in fine form. She's just got a week where she can just celebrate everybody and just be a fan of other people. It starts at the Grammys. She knew she wasn't going to win, but she could just give out an award.

She could crush a bottle of champagne. She can make her way as she sees fit to New Orleans to continue the debauchery. It's great. She was an all-time hype girl mode. It was cool. It brought a smile to my face. I will definitely say. Not as much of a smile as the dress did

because you were worried about the outfit. Well, we're going to get there. We're going to get there. We're going to get there. But shall we just kick it off? Do you want to give me your first winner of the night? I mean, look, the winner of the night is Beyonce. That was genuine shock on her face

when she won country album of the year. Yeah. Like that is a memeable moment that I didn't expect. And I think what you saw was years of therapy. building to that moment where she probably came in without the expectations that the rest of us had. I mean, I'm sure she had to do some mental health work to get back in that dress, get back on that floor, come back to that table and prepare to be disappointed again. And so that genuine moment of shock where her daughter then turned to her,

and suddenly it was like, okay, here, I mean, I tweeted, here we go, Beyonce, because I thought there was a chance she was going to lose that category and still have a chance to win album of the year but lose that category. But when she won that category, you just, as you started to piece together, Beyonce and then the makeup with the weekend,

which we'll talk about. And then here comes Kendrick finally winning for two categories. And a lot of the feel good narrative arc, it started to feel like Beyonce's night pretty early on, especially by the way, when you notice that Sabrina won the two pop girl categories over Billy and Taylor and Charlie and Chapel and Ariana and on and on and Beyonce by the way in one of those categories.

You got the sense that maybe hit me hard and soft was not going to have the night that you expected and that that was going to potentially clear a lane for Beyonce. So big night for her. I don't know. I mean, let's talk about it. The only thing that I didn't love about last night was. her speech. I think she was in such shock that she didn't take the moment to complete the arc of this art that started when she put it out into the world to see how people would respond to a

black woman entering a genre in which she at least heretofore had not been in with a history lesson that connected the new with the old and was long and didn't sound like your standard country. All of those things went out into the world. And it's started a societal reaction that concluded last night. And I would have loved to have heard her step in and own it. But I think that that memeable moment of her face when she won country album was an indication that to get through this, she emotionally and mentally had to be somewhat disconnected and come in with zero expectations. And for that, it warms my heart that a woman who has all the things in the world,

physical things in the world, material things in the world you could possibly want, still was able to be delighted. And so was I. The facial expression in and of itself was just hysterical too. And like Blue Ivy kind of having to be like, Mom, go.

Like, get up there. You need to go up there and make a speech. Because she really... I mean, it was like, did Jay-Z fart? That was the kind of face that I thought maybe had happened. I don't think that's what happened. Although I wasn't there. Who's to say?

I saw some stuff online where people were speculating that she knew and that it was, which I think is crazy. The theory being that, you know, Taylor's giving out the award. They show up just before it's announced. To me, that's just, you know, Beyonce and Jay-Z can show up whenever they want to show up. And maybe that's a little late. Maybe they're going to do that because they can. And it's kind of badass. but even if she didn't expect to win this award,

which I genuinely don't think she did, I did not expect her to win this award. I, like you, thought that once she won in this category, it started to feel, and it did more so once some of the other results came in, but even at this point, it started to feel like it really could be her night just because if she had the country votes, which she very much didn't obviously with the CMA is. Right.

That was going to be in some ways the hard. artist constituency to win. And if she had those people, and you know, you would know more about this than I do, but my, my impression is that Nashville votes, right? And country music people vote in this,

because some of this is turnout, right? That it was shaping up to be her night. And the Taylor element, I mean, you know, it was always a possibility. And I don't think, I just personally didn't think it was that telling, but Taylor Swift was giving

out this award. You didn't think it was telling? I mean, look, if you're a conspiracy theorist, this is your Grammys. I mean, you can go bananas because it sure seemed like the hand of God was behind. Oh, we got the weekend back. I think that's a well-produced show creating the opportunity for a moment, if that's the way it goes. But I don't think they're saying, well, we know Beyonce is winning this award and therefore

we're going to have Taylor Swift give it to her. Yeah, but Taylor didn't really get announced as a presenter until a few days beforehand, and we didn't know what category until they spoke it on the telecast. So you could potentially make the conspiracy case that they started to shape the presentation around all these things. By the way, album of the year last, which isn't always the case, but here we were, Kendrick getting his, you know, flowers, Beyonce. So I don't believe the conspiracy theory, but I do think her winning country album was a big, big moment. It really was.

And I think you're right. By then we knew that Sabrina had already a pop win. And so that suggested that if there was going to be a split vote across the pop girls. And I think in hindsight, I mean, they really should release the numbers on this. stuff. Why not? Because it would be telling to see whether there was some split amongst the voters between the likes of Billy and Sabrina and maybe to a lesser extent Charlie and Taylor that allowed Beyonce to win or whether there was a little bit more consensus behind it. I would love to know how many votes Taylor got. Taylor, let's just go there. I mean, Taylor was a winner last night in all

kinds of ways, mostly because she didn't win. Yeah. No, it was a perfect night for her. Nobody, nobody wanted to go up on stage and take album of the year from Beyonce. You could see that in the crowd shots that have come online when Beyonce wins. I mean, Taylor is first to her feet three sheets, maybe two sheets, maybe six sheets, but she's a number of sheets to the wind in that moment. and she's psyched. Billy seems genuinely relieved that she doesn't have to go up there. And like moved. Yeah.

I mean, genuinely emotional watching Beyonce go up there. And I'm sure some of that had to do with her own part to play in the show and in this category. But it just seemed like it seemed like a lot of people in the room got it, which I thought was cool, like palpably. For sure. And that maybe even. the power of the moment was more palpable on site. I mean, I think, you know, the Grammys definitely were a winner. I agree with you. I think they handled this existential crisis that we've been talking about very well. By the time, I mean, they just navigated the fire tributes extraordinarily

well. They used that as a focal point for the whole show to take the drama away from, oh my god, what if they don't give it to Beyonce? Which was the underlying question coming in. Like, can they really send the most awarded, most nominated artist of all time home again without the Grammy for album of the year? Against the backdrop of Jay-Z's speech a year ago at the Grammys, chastising them against all of it. And by the time it rolled around, now maybe it was just a war of a trend. and four hours later, we were like, whatever, just give the award. Let me go to bed. But I think that the telecast actually had enough energy that I didn't feel that way. But by the time

it was given out, it didn't feel like the most important thing. And I still think it was the most important thing. I also think it was very strategic and intentional that he announced this reconciliation with the weekend, which, I mean, we'll get there. But like on the Richter scale of surprises. What was that of 0.5? I mean, it was certainly under a one. Like, oh, my, are you kidding me? But, you know, that was a very calculated moment to say artists are coming back a few hours before there was a possibility that if they didn't give this award to Beyonce, a lot of artists were not going to come back. I mean, that that has been the tenor of the conversation since Jay-Z's speech a year ago. And Zach Bryan didn't submit and on and on and on. So,

I, it, it, um, to bring it full circle back to Taylor, Taylor did not want album of the year, did she? And she looked great. She had a hell of a lot of fun. And I think she gets the W from my perspective. Yeah. Well, and look, I mean, my winner number one is, is Beyonce as well. I think that's the clear top story of the night. But rope in, rope in the show, the recording academy, the producers with that too, because you're right. Tone. it was going to be a hard show to pull off and I really think they did a good job with it. I mean, I didn't,

I didn't think Trevor Noah was that funny, but I also think he had a tough job to do. I don't think he was trying to be. Yeah. Yeah. He was like supportive and he didn't really, you know, there was Nikki Glazer in the crowd. Like, that would have been a different gig

if Nikki was running it, right? Right. It wasn't appropriate for the night and I think he at least got the, he understood the assignment. Yeah. And I really thought that, you know, Billy crying, Gaga crying. I hear what you're saying about it would have been, like I personally would have enjoyed seeing Beyonce just like step up there and claim that space and almost be a little self-congratulatory because I think she deserves it.

I think there's probably something smart on her behalf of just saying, wow, I'm grateful for this. Yeah. and then letting the energy in the room, you know, Billy crying, Gaga crying. I think this is only my lip reading, so take with a grain of salt, but it looked like, you know, when Taylor went over,

toasted with Jay, it looked like she said finally, at least to me. So just, I felt that as a moment, and I wonder if Beyonce just sort of, like, could feel that in the room

and let the winds be for itself. I would love to see, Again, she's been shielded from us on this. She's sort of let it speak for itself. And I can only think that that was her intention to let the art go out. And that the point of half of this was how people were going to respond. And that if she manipulated the narrative in too many ways, it would undermine the purpose of it. But now, I want to hear from her.

Like, I want to hear her talk through. Yeah, but she's not going to, you know, she's not going to, she's not going to be. talking about the art on stage quite as much. I just would love like a 60 minutes-esque, you know, hour with her just to say, tell me about this. Take me back to, you know, your childhood and how country sort of worked its way into your musical experience. But then, you know, fast forward to the losses, right? And what did those actually feel like? And tell me about Jay's speech a year ago. How did that, just like all of the buildup. I mean, that's the one. That's the one. That's the one will never get an answer to, right?

Like, everything else that you said, I think there are answers to that within Cowboy Carter. They're obviously not the same as hearing her speak to it. That's the one that I would kill to know. Yeah. Were you emotional when she won? Yeah. I was really happy.

Like, I was happy in a way that had some depth to it. I was a little tired, which I do think made something of a difference. Yeah. If I had one note for the show. be there as her like emotional support human. I can't believe that girl is 12 years old or 13 or however old she is. It's unbelievable.

I mean, she's a full on adult. I mean, she acts like an adult. She's got the grace of years of experience being in the public eye. I mean, it's something else. She was more composed and now it's not her award, but she was more composed than Beyonce. Yeah. But like she took her hand to walk up. Like it was almost, there was a wonderful mother-daughter thing there that was very moving.

Yeah. Blue Ivy School. All right. We're being too nice. Oh, we're being too nice. You want to go to some losers? I mean, I got some winners. But, all right.

I mean, look, loser number one is Drake. Absolutely. Holy shit. I mean. This man is cooked. Yeah, it's bad. And it's worse than I understood because every big star in music was that. there and they were all singing a minor and applauding and all in. I mean, this is not a battle anymore.

It just was a, I mean, it was a victory parade is what it was. And when you saw, I mean, Kendrick didn't, just like Beyonce, was very humble in his acceptance and the way that he talked about rap and as still always being an important part of culture. And that's why he won at the end. end of the day is really in hindsight, if you think about it, that track moved culture so broadly in ways that nothing else did. That back and forth was a huge moment in music in 2024. There was all of the pop girl stuff, and then there was the Drake Kendrick battle. And boy, what a crowning for Kendrick and just a tough, tough loss for Drake. And we still haven't gotten to the Super Bowl. Like, it's not over. Kendrick had Taylor Swift, you know, bopping along calling Drake a pedophile.

He wins five Grammys. He's wearing, do you know what they call it when it's denim on top, denim on the bottom? Canadian tuxedo, baby. He's like shading Drake in the outfit. That was tough. That was a really, really tough look. He could have been a little bit more,

you know, he could have been a sore winner, right? You could have, he could have spiked the football a little bit in the speech. But again, I felt like he didn't need to because you got Taylor Swift and Beyonce up there doing it for him. Was there a second? And this is actually, this speaks to the camera angles thing. Is there a second when he said, hi, Dre? Yes. But I couldn't see Dr. Dre.

Right. Because of what the, you know, the cameras pointed on Kendrick. and for a second, I thought he got up on stage and said, hi, Drake. And, like, I wonder if that was purposeful in some way, because it's sort of like you get to say it without saying it almost, or maybe that was just me. I don't know. I mean, look, he paid homage to Los Angeles.

By the way, that cutaway to Dr. Dre, he was right behind Taylor. That was a, I mean, my kingdom for a fucking recording of that conversation between the two of them. legends and billionaires in their own right. But yeah, I mean, he, he was very, I don't know, I just, it's he who shall not be named. And it turns this week into a celebration of Kendrick as what I would say, you know, listen, he gets a win last night as the greatest active rapper. And I say active because I wouldn't call Jay Z active.

Jay's in the crowd, supportive. There's Dre supportive. You know, Kanye shows up like a fucking clown, and, you know, his first, his tweet storm gets blown up by the Luca Donchich trade. He starts tweeting, and it just gets completely hijacked by this trade between the Lakers and the Mavs, which was terrific. So then he shows up and looks like he's got a hostage with him in his wife. Someone needs to check on that situation. I think you're right. The vibes are off.

She's got agency. I think at some point you have to try to not dictate. the terms of what people do, but come on. I mean, just like have some decency at this point. I'm not clutching my pearls. It's like, hey, thanks. But like, he's just human clickbait at this point. And it's become a joke. When you juxtapose that against Kendrick, winning for something edgy, by the way, but that actually moved culture in a real way, it's just so clear who the greatest living active rapper is. It's Kendrick Lamar. Totally.

Totally. No, the Connie, I think, was just embarrassing. It's just like one stunt after another. We don't need to talk about him. I'm bored with him. I think a lot of people are. Billy was a loser last night. She was shut out with what I think is the best album that she's ever made. And I don't think it really matters. You know, I got emotional during her performance because the backdrop was the part of Los Angeles that burned. And interjecting it with those pictures of her and Phineas as children playing in those. mountains was, it got me. Totally. Now, I'm, you know, that's right in my wheelhouse of my life experience over the last month.

But still, like, it was, it was moving. And I thought, like, she was the right L.A. star to be up there for that. She is a huge star. She's won these before. I don't think the loss is a big one for her, you know? She did not want to win. Yeah. I don't think.

At the end of the day, I don't think she wanted this. I mean, I think you're right to say that she comes out a loser relative to what you and I both expected in slightly different ways, but generally expected the outcome of this to be. I don't think, I think Billy Eilish stock after this week. Extremely high. Extremely high as high as ever. From the fire age show where she's part of the opening to opening here, I was really, the photograph. were so charming and so sort of tear-jurking, but really sweet.

She's, like, becoming an L.A. ambassador, it seems like. For sure. I think that's really cool. Somebody was going to be a casualty here. Somebody was going to lose because Sabrina was in and about it. It was really, if Beyonce was going to win

album of the year, over, over Billy, then one of Sabrina, Kendrick, Billy, were going to have not, their favorite night. And I think that ended up being Billy because she just got boxed out on both song and record and album of the year. But I don't think if I had to pick one person who could handle that, it's Billy Eilish. She's got plenty of trophies. She's got plenty of trophies and also like,

shout out to Phineas because I think he posted something where he was like, great night at the Grammys. And I don't want to see anyone who has my or Billy's face as, their profile picture fighting with any other artist fans in the comments. And I'm so here for it. Go for it. Yes. Exactly. Like they just, they get it. Again, yet they really do. She has grown up so much and she's still so young. She's going to have, I don't know, seven, eight more swings at this if she wants it. But there is a strange dichotomy for me between her really being. at the peak of her powers right now. And we've spoken about this on this pod. Like I saw that live show and I was floored. She was awesome and the crowd was more energetic than the Erez tour. And that

is saying something. And this album was meaningfully different than music that she's made before. She took risks. She crafted songs extraordinarily well. She maintained her artistic credibility and authenticity in putting this out. So I think you're exactly right that the stock is as high as ever. And through this whole process of the last year, I became a giant Billy Eilish fan. And I'm sorry that she didn't win, but it was clear somebody was going to get it boxed out. And Billy's got plenty of these. She's got so many, I mean, she's got so many of these things that there's probably, they're sitting in drawers because there's not places in her house to actually display them. How'd you feel about Phineas's Bob?

That was not a focus of mine last night. Tell me all about it. It's a focus of mine. I respect it. I think it's great to see some, not all, but some of the men of the music industry, coming out and taking some risks with the hair gel. And, I mean, I don't know. I don't know if it was entirely successful, but it improved my watching experience.

I was interested. What's he going for? Is this kind of, you know, is this a sort of quasi-Ellen degenerous thing? Like, what's going on here? So I was into it. Yeah, fine. Thumbs up. Let's celebrate the hair.

There was some, was there any other good dude hair last night? I don't know. Oh, gosh. There weren't a lot of dudes. Not that caught my eye particularly. No, not really. I mean, look, Andre 3000 didn't even show up to this thing. that's how much he did not want to win album of the year over Beyonce.

He just said, forget it. I'm not good. I've got something else. I'm going to take my flute and go home. Yeah, I've got a private. Someone in Aspen has hired me to play a special flute concert. I don't know what happened. I wonder if he regrets that because it turned out to be a fun night.

It was a very fun night. I mean, I'm sure it's fine, but whatever. Yeah, he wasn't going to be the focal point in a lot of. of ways. Can I just circle back one more thing on Taylor? Like, let's just talk about the outfit, please, because this was of high concern to you. It was red. It was shorter.

It had a T dangling from it that supposedly she designed. Can you just, we are now very far outside of my area of expertise. Okay, we're going to skip ahead. One, you're going to need to give me a winner after this, but my next winner, Tay, outfit. I mean, I can't tell you. And I know. And it never brings me any joy to come on this pod and like not like something. But I'd call it like I see it.

And sometimes lately, some of the outfits to me have not been the most inspiring choices. And I was a little nervous. The AFC championship game was not great, right? Yes. That's certainly how I felt. And this is not, she's a stunning person. I just think that for a creative genius, it wasn't a terribly inspiring choice.

I didn't find it interesting. I was so thrilled. I cannot tell you, Nathan, the first time I see her, I have the like E red carpet thing on, and I see her from, you know, torso up. I recognize the Vivian Westwood corset of the top and go, okay, I like it. I like it in the red.

She looks great. The hair is great. I like the earrings. It's like fun, but it's still classic Taylor. But I'll be honest with you, I'm holding my breath a little because I can't see the bottom half.

What are you worried about? I'm worried about a big boot. A big, big boot, a big boot over the knee. Just a big old boot. And then they pan. And I cheered. I cheered and I thought it was so fun. Like she looked amazing.

I thought that, you know, what if he's written mine on my upper thigh, quasi-reference with the little jewel tea. Is it for Taylor? Is it for Travis? Was very fun and flirty. And I just thought she looked great. I thought it was a great outfit.

And I was thrilled. Is this relief I'm hearing from you? Yes. Oh my God. I was so happy. Okay. Okay. More so than, oh, my God, that's the best dress ever.

You're really saying, I'm glad she didn't mess it up. But more than that. No, I don't, it's not, you know, I don't think it's like the greatest dress I've ever. But I just really liked it. And it just made me happy to see her eat. Did you like it with Janelle Mene's Michael Jackson Blazer and Jack Antonoff's rimmed glasses?

Oh, I didn't see the glasses. She did wear the blazer for a long time, I thought. Oh, you got to see her during Charlie's performance. That's when she was. I've seen the video of that, but I didn't notice the glasses. I noticed the bottle of Ace of Spades in her hand. Eight beds worth of sheets to the wind. She was really rolling with the blazer wearing Jack's glass.

I mean, poor Jack, he shows up at these things. He thought when he married Margaret that finally she was going to be a buffer between Taylor, like just fucking with him at every award show. She plays with his face. She pokes him. It's totally little brother energy between the two of them. and Margaret showed up and Benedict Arnold in full display, just completely betrayed Jack, went full Taylor and was drinking and up and dancing and

fucking with Jack. Poor Jack is just getting stuffed in a locker at every single one of these award shows. Who brought the pet nerd? Taylor Swift and his wife Margaret did now. Jack's fine. He's having a nice time, I'm sure. I mean, that table looked fun. The whole thing with Cynthia Revo

was hysterical. It was so funny to see in real time. But oh my God, they're doing holding space for defying gravity. Taylor's doing holding space for defying gravity. I just thought that was a hoot. Yeah. It was funny some of the camera angles

when you could see like almost kind of blurry in the background. And you do catch the moments when they're sort of zoning out a little bit. Yeah. There was at, in the first performance,

they panned over to Taylor and it was like, oh, not this again. Not every other shot is going to be Taylor doing the Taylor dance to other people's stuff. Like, this is going to make me sick all night. But then they stopped doing it. And the fan videos of her are a fucking riot. Like she was just genuinely having a good time. It was less, I actually appreciate the fan videos more because if we keep the camera off her, the TV camera, you're going to get more of her genuine reaction.

And I think her genuine reaction is to be a total theater nerd, put on the jacket that got tossed at her, and put on Jack's glasses, start fucking with his face and just, like you said, totally dust a bottle of Ace of Spades. To play along, to be a really good supporter of her fellow artists, I really, and again, it's probably no secret that there have been some moments. recently where I felt different. It's the make-a-men's Grammys. Last year was not good.

I felt so charmed by Taylor Swift last night. And it was a great feeling. I loved it. I just want to bask in it. She made amends for the suboptimal performance last year. And that was consistent with the theme of the night. So well done, Taylor. Do I owe you another winner?

Yeah, another winner. How about the discombobulated left? There's Chaparone. There's Chaparone talking about health insurance. there's Alicia Keys saying D.I. is a gift, not a threat. There's Gaga talking about trans rights. I mean, from the literal ashes of the L.A. fires

comes a message for Democrats, while their politicians seem to be completely frozen and incapable of pushback. You saw a little bit of resistance reforming in a different way. We found out that celebrity doesn't really move the needle in this election, but it seems like some artists

still have a little bit of hunger to work the messages, again, in ways that the political class hasn't figured out yet. So they at least were able to articulate a message last night, whether it's effective or not, who knows? 2028, the message, celebrities, go dress up and go to awards shows to get your message out. People absolutely love it. No notes. It's worked every time. That always, people love to be told what to do from a telecast when you're rich and famous. I tease at the same time. Chapel was really sincere.

That was a great moment. I do think this group, especially in pop, and I think that's one of the things that has made this past year so fun, at least musically to cover, is there is a, and I don't mean this is not politically prescriptive, but the vibes are a little bit more left of center than they were two, three years ago. There's just a weirdness, right? Like, there's Chapel, the re-centering of Charlie.

Like, there is this slightly more left-leaning ethos, I think, that is fun creatively. And yeah, you know, people use their platforms. And it's always cool to see, I think. Generally speaking, it was a blissfully apolitical telecast in a moment that really just focused on the victims of the fire. which I know lots of people appreciated. And so again, I think the tone was struck well. And those three particularly, maybe they were political moments,

were done briefly and I think with taste. So it just didn't feel like a lecture last night as much as these things sometimes do. I also think chapels felt like it had some weight to it. You know, she's talking about her own experience. She's saying it to everybody in the room. She's saying, I promised myself that if I ever got into this moment,

I would talk about the other side of being a new artist and the parts of it that are much more difficult than going on stage and winning a Grammy. Did you have her as a win last night? I didn't choose her as one of my three, but I think if I had four, I would have. I mean, I thought the Pink Pony Club was awesome. Yeah, clown show in the best way.

I don't know that I was in on the clowns, as discussed. You are terrified of clowns. And those were some somewhat creepy clowns. But that's kind of, that's, listen, they were less disturbing than whatever was in that Gaga MasterCard commercial. I have that down not as a loser, but as a just like question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark. I got Gaga as a loss. I mean, let's talk about it. I mean, did you see what was she doing at the start of California dreaming with, with, with,

I mean, I just didn't understand the movements. Yeah, but it's Gaga. She's always kind of flailing around. Yeah, but did you hear the song that she sang at Fire Aid that she closed with that she said was written by the fiancé with the fiancé? The fiancé might be Yoko Ono. I mean, look this up if you don't know if that's a weird reference for some of you. This is a trope that has like, you know, persisted across music for a long time. Yoko Ono, freaking, you know, the movie Spinal Tap, Janine.

I mean, people worried about, again, Taylor's significant others. Like, the idea that a significant other gets in the way of a band or gets in the way of the creative output of an artist, that song at Fire Aid was not good. It was not good. And there's just a lot of Michael references. I'm sure he's lovely. I'm so glad that she has found somebody. I'm being sort of facetious. But I'm telling you, this might be Michael O'noh,

because they cut away from that performance. And then all of a sudden, you got MasterCard paying for three minutes of a commercial to, like, launch the video and song. And if it was that good, why wasn't she in the show to begin with? Maybe because that's just for nominee, but like it just felt a little bit forced on us. It felt a little bit Katie Perry-esque.

I keep running into glass windows, hoping that one of them is a door and they're not. And the more that I see somebody run into a window, the more I'm like, yeah, they belong on the outside. I don't know. It made me worried, Nora. Talk me off this cliff. So it didn't make me as worried as you are.

Because I liked the song, not the fire aid song, that was weird. But abracadabra, I thought was fun. Like how fun. Like, significantly. more fun than disease. Yeah, in all cases, I feel like my soul is on the line. Like, I feel like I'm being judged by archangels and, you know. Yeah, but that's Gaga.

That's such a big part of her schick. Like, I, so there were. Some weird ass shit. And that is Gaga. We had a couple friends over while we were watching the telecast. And everybody in my apartment was like bopping along to the song. Okay. Going like, okay, this like, this feels like old Gaga, but in a way where it.

isn't so grating and quite so obvious. We're getting into the song. And then all of a sudden, the fucking MasterCard logo gets just slapped across the TV screen. And everyone's like, what the fuck? Gaga, why do you have to do this? It just wasn't as fun.

I mean, Gaga's been weird but fun always. And this has, the last bit of stuff has just felt more tortured without the fun. I don't entirely disagree. I did think that the song in the music video was the most fun of anything she's put out lately. Die with a smile included. Yeah, which took home a Grammy and I was dying. I was dying because I briefly was like, oh my God, if this one's one of the big ones, I'm glad it didn't.

I didn't consider that possibility. Oh, you didn't? Oh, I thought. I think I couldn't. All right. I thought when they won the Grammy for the collaboration that there was potential to just, oh, man. Anyway, I'm glad it ended up where it did. Look, again, I'm going to approach the Gaga stuff with an open mind. I'm excited. She is an artist. There is no doubt about it. And I just, I need to get myself there to be able to receive the art in the right way. So we just did a loser. A loser slash question mark for Gaga. I think you still owe me a winner.

Okay. How about Benson Boone and Ray? In the Best New Artist montage, flips and vocal runs are going to win every time. I thought Benson Boone was terrific. Like, what a bunch of energy. What a breath of fresh air. I thought he was flawless. And then Ray closing that montage with just, I mean, she brought the house down. Those were two artists that, those are two artists that I think everybody's watching. They're waiting for, the song that's going to propel them into that stratosphere. But I thought they came off, I thought they acquitted themselves very well. Yeah, I liked, I thought Benson Boone went for it with the outfit. The flips are cool. I personally feel that if I never have to hear that song again,

it will be too soon. So I had a different reaction, but I thought Ray was awesome. The internet has made the point that like every generation has its own Imagine Dragons and that that's what that song sounds like a little bit. Yeah. But man, when you go up and do flips off the piano, like shout out, brother, there were not a lot of people doing flips off pianos last night.

Sure. It's not really why we were assembled that evening, but that that is unequivocally accurate. You were hoping I'd say Dochi, I'm sure. Yeah, I got Dochi down as a winner. I just thought that was a star-making night. Like, to the extent that someone really had had that. I think it was Dochi. I mean, Chapel is in a different situation

because I think she's broken through in a different way already. But Dochi wins best rap album, has the performance that, to me, her performance of Denial's River as part of the best new artist section, that was the one that stole it for me. Yeah.

By the way. Spoof the shit out of Billy Elish when they started the whistles in the crowd. Totally. You can't be doing that to someone who has like mild Tourette's case. every now and then. It's not good. Full, multi-look custom Tom Brown,

both for the Grammys overall, for the performance, all the backup dancers. I want to say this as a public service announcement to every professional athlete across sports who just really loves to have a Tom Brown moment when they're walking into a major sporting event, cough, cough, Travis. This is how you do it. Okay.

Speech was lovely. Speech was great. graceful and articulate and fantastic. Had her mom up there. And the moment when, first of all, Cardi B handing out the award was just lovely, not only because Cardi is the last woman

to win in that category. But I am charmed by Cardi B at almost every turn. So. I felt like the edibles had definitely kicked in right as she was walking out. Yeah, because it always feels like that with Cardi. It was a particularly loose performance from Cardi.

for me. But she's always loose and she seems so friendly and warm and fun and she does have a real, at least I think, star power that just sort of radiates from her. And I really felt like there was a passing of the torch where, you know, Dochi really picked up, picked up the mic and had a lot of that energy, I thought as well. Now, she definitely presents it in a way that's a little bit more tailored and less Lucy Goosey than Cardi. But I just thought they seemed like they were having a really good time. And the moment when she had to correct herself and say, no, three women have now won this award,

Lauren Hill, Cardi B, and Dochi was just phenomenal. So I thought that was a huge, huge night. And I bet it introduced a fair amount of people to her who will now go look into it and see what she's got a little bit more. Well, I hope so. That was a delightful introduction. There's always a few stars that come out of these telecasts, and she was unequivocally one of them. Can I give you a loser? Oh, please. I think you and I might both have this. I mean, it's the weekend.

Yeah. Like, I thought we were getting Timmy and Bob. So did you. Is it, this was the surprise, right? Like, this was the special surprise. Yeah, I mean, we thought it might be Timmy with Bob. I mean, we thought it would be something. Again, I think it's a 0.5 on the Richter scale. And look, I do, I thought about how to say this, because I knew we would get to this portion of the pod. And I don't, I don't want to be the type of person who, you know, calls out moments when the Grammys have failed certain genres or artists

or not, you know, been held to the standard that I would like them to and to say that that's wrong and that they should try to do better. and then when they do better and things change as a result of that, like sort of isn't satisfied by that, I have to still confess that I found just the whole rollout of Harvey Mason Jr. is sort of giving the speech about how, you know, artists who have criticized the Grammys have come back into the fold and then being like, look, the weekend has been brought to heal.

And now you have to hear this song that no one's going to care of. and this weird performance was just all really not the vibe. Yeah. It just didn't. And by the way, I'm sure the live show is going to be awesome. And there was an ad for the world tour. It's going to be interesting. There's going to be some competition this summer for your dollars.

That's for sure with the Beyonce Resonies. Yeah. Yeah. Too, right? Because, like, again, I don't want to come down hard on an artist for, quote, unquote, backing off a stand that they took if the weekend actually looked at the Grammys and said, you know, I believe that they've changed for the better

and I want to recognize that. I don't want to be the type of person that can't recognize that and can't be satisfied by that. I have to say that the way that it felt to me was this guy's got an album and a tour to promote and therefore he's going to go do this. Yeah, it's just like, was the album streaming so poorly that he gave up on the boycott?

I thought the boycott was rock and roll to be totally candid. Yeah. Because the only way you're going to hold an organization like that accountable is if the artist themselves

push back. And the fact that he did was fucking cool and giving it up to sell an album that maybe isn't taking off the way that you'd like and a world tour

just, I don't know, man. I just... It's lame. If that's why he did it and that's how it felt to me, I think that's pretty lame. Like without like a formal statement from him. I mean, it's fine that Harvey can come out and say, hey, we got and speak for him, but like,

it's the weekend who boycotted. So, yeah, if you really think there's been some change that artists should pay attention to, because you were, you took some bullets. You made some sacrifices to your own career in service of the artist community because you believe that this institution was not representing them well. That's fucking badass. And it takes courage. So it's, totally your prerogative to give it up. But I want to hear from you now. I want to hear what is the change that you think has been made. Is it now safe for everybody to go back in the pool? Or, you know, or are there still sharks trying to eat people? I don't know. But then to just present me with the song and the ad for the tour, it just felt commercialized. And maybe you didn't believe that the weight

of you as an artist still exists such that your boycott mattered. Well, it mattered to me. And I think it mattered to a lot of fans. And I think to a lot of underrepresented artists, it mattered. So that's not, it's his prerogative to do whatever he wanted to do. I just would have liked to, maybe a follow-up statement on social, explaining what, you know, the change of mind. It would have felt like Biden pardoning Hunter. Yeah, it just, it felt disappointing. It would have been one thing, I think, if, you know, say he hadn't gone this year, but had.

posted something in the aftermath recognizing that, you know, maybe the Grammys have started to get it right a little bit more often. And then that opens a door and maybe it doesn't come so closely coinciding with when you have something to go sell.

It didn't work for me. And I didn't care about the performance. I didn't think it was... Yeah. You know, all is forgiven if you go up there and crush it, right? And it didn't feel like that happened either. Kind of hanging out in the hoodie, amidst some pyrotechnics

wasn't like the explosive reintroduction that we might have hoped for. Yeah, no. Okay. Anything else that we haven't hit? I mean, I got to say, I thought Sabrina Carpenter got a real win last night.

We said it, but two big Grammy wins in the pop category over Billy, over Beyonce, over Chapel, over Charlie, Ariana, and Taylor.

Wow. I mean, she didn't get the big ones, but the performance was cute. She's doing a lot of brand, deals, I definitely thought that the Megan ad was a Sabrina Carpenter commercial for the first two minutes, even though they were playing Chaparone music. Yeah, I thought it was, there were legitimate screams emanating from my apartment because we all thought that it was a Chappel Rhone tour being

announced and then it was a fucking Megan commercial and I was pissed about it. But I know that she and her team are happy and they should be because those, that was the most meaningful subcategory of the night. I think the country album of the year was a murder's row of powerhouse artists. But the pop vocal album was a big deal. And winning those two awards in the aggregate over those artists who matter

definitely secured her on the map. And aren't you glad that Amy Allen won? Yes, absolutely. Very happy. Happy for Amy Allen. Happy for Dan Niro. couple of, you know, behind the scenes, people who have done a lot for the music that we've covered on this show. So I thought that was really cool. The last thing, I just, I feel we have to

devote a moment to the Charlie performance because I thought it was iconic. It was. It was fantastic. And, and, and what's so cool about it is she gets, I mean, it was the biggest, I don't give a fuck, fuck you performance. But, Like she gets to like stay by not really being in the big award conversation, but putting on that performance with all of the cool kids and it almost being like a, like a puzzle where you had to go through and figure out exactly who were all the people on stage. It did. It was like Dime Square. Where's Waldo?

Yeah, 100%. Wait, there's Maddie Healy's girlfriend. Hey, who's that, right? But it kept her, she kept her underground credentials coming out of this. night, right? She won some Grammys. She won Dance Electronic Album of the Year. She won a few others. But she didn't lose that, like, just beneath the surface, you know, like, she's still brat as fuck.

And she got a moment. You know, I was, I think Charlie is so true to herself and has such an impressively honed sense of who she is as a person and who she is as an artist. that that was not a concern to me. What was a concern to me was that she wouldn't get a moment, get a real moment. And the fact that the performance ended up basically closing the show, I just thought it was so much fun. I thought was really well chosen. It was such a party. The intro where she was talking about, what's the Charlie X, X, the party really like,

oh, very wholesome, nothing illegal. And they're just splicing it with the video from the sweat tour where she's like licking the floor. It absolutely sent me. Von Dutch and Guess would not have been my, my predictions, but I think it's, but it's fucking cool. Like, it's cool that she just didn't choose the biggest two hits. Like, Billy didn't even join. Yeah, it is cool. But she kind of joined from the audience. Yeah, that's fair. It was a good night for Charlie. That's for sure. She got a lot of screen time. She didn't have to check her underground credentials at the door. and it was the right closing of the Brat chapter.

She had a cutaway, I believe, when Gaga was on stage talking about trans rights, and they cut away to Charlie, who's, like, clearly invested and clearly very supportive, but seems to be expressing that by clapping and moving her face in a way where it felt like what she was saying was like, yes! And it was just really good. it really charmed me. I had no idea Julia Fox was on stage

until she wished her happy birthday at the end. I mean, I gotta go back and watch that video a hundred times over and try to pick out has somebody done it yet?

Do we have the like... I mean like the dare was in there Gabriette. There are a couple. There are a couple but it really is like dime square

where is Waldo. Yeah. Well, that's going to be something that I do today at the end of the day. I'm going to go get the screenshot

if nobody else has done it and figure it out. Cool. I look forward to that. Tell me who you spot. A really great Grammys. Really happy for basically everyone involved.

I am too. I'm usually disappointed by these things. But I think that the right people won, you know, there were some flame out losers. But it's hard to feel that most of those wounds were self-inflicted. And it brings closure to what I think is a historically great year in music. and in particular in pop,

2025 is going to have a lot to live up to. I'm looking forward to it. Before we go, I want to just open the floor for like two minutes because I know that I have promised a few listeners through various channels on the interwebs that we would not let the Super Bowl come and go without providing at least a snippet

of the every single album guide to the Super Bowl. What's on your mind, Nathan? Nora, you need to, lead this discussion as somebody who's currently sitting in a very smelly hotel room in New Orleans. I told Nathan when I checked in my hotel room in New Orleans had a slight odor to it, which is true and I wish we're not the case, but that's okay. And I thank the good people of New Orleans for their hospitality. There is nothing more fun than a Super Bowl in New Orleans, except for one thing, and that is the unbelievable traffic. The city just cannot handle it.

But it is so fun. I mean, I have all sorts of course. questions for you, but I sort of need your guidance here. Like, what are the things that we need to address? I mean, we're going to have a Kendrick performance. It's going to have, I think, a lot of added interest because of his big wins last night. I assume that within 48 hours of the Super Bowl, there's going to be a lawsuit from Drake against Kendrick directly that incorporates the statistics to influence the damages number. That is an interesting thing that I'm going to look out for. Other than that, you know, I don't know. Does Travis retire if they win?

Well, so can I tell you a story of what I overheard at the baggage carousel getting my luggage? A great place for sources of truth, yes. So I'm just waiting for my luggage. And I'm eavesdropping basically and listening to people's conversations. And there's a man and a woman talking. And this guy goes, or no, the woman goes, he's not going to propose. on the field. He would never do that. That would be so corny. And the guy goes, he's like the corniest person ever. And the woman goes, she would say no. And I just giggled because I was like, I know who

you're talking about. I don't think any of that is really in the cards. However, I do think that, you know, it's just nice to land and be like, ah, the people are talking. Taylor is in the air. Well, I'm interested to know, like, do you think Taylor's going to be there all week? Like, what do you think her move is? I sort of doubt it. I get the sense that, you know, I think they're still very happy to be in the mix and do fun stuff together and be around the cameras and do all that. But it's a little less than it was last year. And last year she flew in last minute anyway.

So I bet she just comes for the game and then the parties. obviously how much comes out of that in terms of like what we see of them is very colored by do the chiefs win, do the chiefs lose. The number one thing that I am interested in from her perspective is who's in the suite and particularly are Blake and Ryan in the suite. Because I just wonder with everything that they are dealing with right now, we have not seen them with Taylor for a little bit. And it just would not surprise me if she makes a show of support in that way. Yeah, that's her, that's her M.O. for sure. And a week of supporting others, it wouldn't surprise me either. And now maybe she doesn't.

And maybe, I might watch that with some amount of interest, although I think my takeaway from that, if anything, would just be like, that whole situation seems like a mess. And maybe she doesn't want to be involved with it. But they're very close. we often see her throw the arm around someone in one way or another. And I just, she hasn't been bringing as many friends to the games this season, it seems like. And now maybe, you know, maybe the Hym girls are just like, sorry, Taylor, we love you,

but there's only so many football games I can sit through. But it's mostly been like her family. And I just, I do wonder, you know, you figure that changes to some degree for the Super Bowl. And I just wouldn't be surprised at all if we saw Blake and Ryan. And so that's a little subplot that I'm interested in. Who's going to win? I think the Chiefs are going to win. Do you really?

Yeah. So this will be our first three-peat ever in the NFL. Do you think Travis retires? I think if they win, he'll retire. Yeah. He's had a great career, and it's pretty palpable that he is at the end of it. And I think if they can go out, having made that kind of history, it would be a storybook finish. And there are clearly a lot of other opportunities for him out there.

So I just, I would not be surprised by that at all. Because I even thought, like, when they won last year and the first things that we were hearing from them on the field were going for three, we want the three Pete, that's cool. I think it's really cool to see people striving for greatness. Nothing about that that I minded. My thought was just like, man, that seems stressful. Like, you guys aren't even take a second to enjoy this. And I think for as good as they are and as much. success and how much fun that is.

Like, there's a particular pressure that, you know, a lot of the old Patriots teams that I covered would talk about of just sort of trying to hang on to that top spot. And I think it really wears on people. And I just would not be surprised if he says that this is it, if they win. And maybe if they lose, but almost definitely if they win. He's also got an opportunity to be with his girlfriend who is going to be off cycle for the first time in a long time. So it just won't surprise me either.

I mean, after seeing that dress last night, okay, that's it for me. No comment. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Princeati. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Sasha Herschel for filling in on production today and to the fabulous Kai McMullen for her overall production supervision. We'll talk to you next week.