Every Single Album - ‘I Said I Love You First’ | Every Single Album: Selena Gomez

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

Nora and Nathan talk about the Selena Gomez and Benny Blanco coproduction: ‘I Said I Love You First.’ They discuss the undeniable hit off this album, "Call Me When You Break Up" (1:00), the evolution of Selena's career as a pop star (33:46), and where exactly Benny Blanco fits in to all of this (42:59). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh, hey there. It's your girl, Bryn Whitfield. You might know me from a little show called The Real Housewives of New York City on Bravo. You are about to see a whole different side of me on edited, by the way. On my new podcast, please see below. Spoiler alert, it's not about passive-aggressive company emails. It's actually way juicier than that. Join me every week as we get down and dirty with my friends, celebrities, experts, even some of our exes. from dating the highs and lows of reality TV, career sex, you name it.

And honey, we're not just going to spill the tea. I am here to smash the entire pot. Believe me, you're going to want to see and hear what's below. Please see below with me, Bryn Whitfield, is premiering soon. Available everywhere you love to listen to podcasts. Welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Preciati. And as always, I am joined by my friend Nathan Hubbard.

And we're going to talk about the Selena. Gomez and Benny Blanco album. Nathan. We are? Yes. Are you in the mood to discuss love, romance? I think the question is, are you in the mood to discuss this? Because when we shut off the microphones last week and had a conversation about this, it was not 100% clear that we were going to do a full episode on this album. Because, look, you and I have been talking about this because she's now released a number of singles coming in.

you have been, I'm going to use the word skeptical as a euphemism for suboptimally enthused about this album and your words, I think a week ago were something to the extent of well, let's see how it is. And we'll touch base over the weekend to confirm what we're doing. And yesterday I was like, hey, what are we doing? And you're like, we're doing the Salina album. So, what I was pitching to you is, not the possibility that we wouldn't talk about it. It was. And I do feel that we can do sort of

both of these things. The possibility that if this album landed in a way that prompted more questions than answers about what's going on here, we might, instead of doing our normal, full-throated format, breaking it down, want to have a conversation about the music career of Selena Gomez, a multifaceted performer with hands in many industries, and try to figure out sort of where she's coming from, where she's maybe going, and what the purpose of this is vis-a-vis her current place in the pop world. Well, we should talk about all those things. Yeah.

Yeah, I think we should talk about all those things. Now that we have listened to, I said I love you first. which came out last Friday. We're recording this on a Tuesday. I mean, the big question for me, and actually I would say that I feel more at peace with this music than I did when we talked about the first, the singles. But the main question that that leaves me with is,

who is this for, Nathan? I'll tell you who. it's for. It's for Selena Gomez. Yeah. That's my answer too. That's okay. But it's for Selena Gomez. I don't come away from this album feeling like I got to know her much better. I don't actually really feel like I got to know them much better, except in the press tour, which we have different feelings. I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed Benny Blanco. I have enjoyed what a closet nerd Selena Gomez is, I have bought into this relationship. I don't know. There's so much to Selena that I want to talk about because in my mind, she is like this generation's Jennifer

Aniston and people are massively invested in her personal life really because of the Bieber breakup. Yeah, that's a good comparison. I'm compelled by that comparison. Maybe not in its entirety, but that's an interesting name to throw out. Yeah, she'll always be in some capacity, America's sweetheart, because there's just this legion of people who even though she is beautiful and successful are drawn to the way that she talks about her own insecurities

and the way that she is open with them in the world, and they just side with her. She's easy to relate to, even though she's absolutely beautiful. There's a wonderful moment on the, press tour where they're asking the two of them about their first date. And he says, yeah, I didn't know it was a date. And I would have been so much more nervous if I had known. And she was like, what are you talking about? And he looks at her. And in the cutest way, is like, well, look at you.

And it's like she doesn't even know, right, what she is. And there's something so endearing about that. And so there's this not so silent majority of fans that just vote with Selena with their, they vote with their wallets. They vote with their eyes. And on this album, they're very much. And they're voting with their ears. Well, and when you say that, you mean they're voting with their ears in terms of your assessment is that in the last 72 hours, or give or take, people have been listening to this significantly. People are listening to this. They are.

And will it sustain? I don't think so. But she has, when we talked about Gaga, we said, this woman just has a floor. She just has a floor of fans. She's a huge, huge legion of fans. I mean, this was at one point the most followed person on Instagram in the world.

Right. And just like Gaga, like if she puts out an album of her burping for 34 minutes instead of these, in quotes, and I mean in quotes, songs,

people are going to listen. And that's what's happening here. The Marias who feature on a song here, people are listening to that song. And the Maria's, are being discovered and the catalog has spiked. It's streaming about double what it normally does.

So there is a lot of attention on this. I don't know that it is all new. Like we'd heard some of these songs before a long time ago, we'd heard some of them as singles. So we'll get into that. But Selena as a individual is fascinating to me because she is the archetype of the multi-hyphenate, multifaceted creator.

She is a television star. She is a billion-dollar-plus brand creator, and she is a musician. And all of these are different mediums for her own expression, in addition to the ways in which she has talked so deeply and publicly about mental health challenges, which is one of those issues of our time that people seem to be drawn to when someone is able to articulate their own struggles in a very human way. And that is Selena's superpower. So it's interesting. I want to touch a little bit on how big of an impact you think this music is going to make,

how many people you think are going to hear this because I'm a bit surprised to hear you say this is going well. People are getting into the stuff. People are hearing the stuff. Oh, I don't know if they're getting into it. I just think there's volume right now. I do feel like I need to ask you if you hear a hit anywhere on this album.

It's calming when you break up. That's on people. It's 28. I hear you. That's what I would choose too. But I don't think that's a hit. I think the Maria's song that I'm going to let you pronounce is the other one. I actually did. I wrote it down in my notes to make sure that I would say, ohos, instead of Ojos, because I do not speak Spanish. So I got you right there, Nathan. Well, thank you for that. And it's doing well. And it's doing enough that the Maria. have, if you noticed over the weekend, the song went from crediting Maria as a singer or as a,

as a writer and producer to featuring the Marias. To me, that might be an indication that this thing was doing better than everybody thought. Sure. Sure. And I think there's some, you know, we'll talk about, I have another candidate for something that might like bubble up in a surprising way from this, I do find more than bad or like dislike. I listen to this music and I hear most of it as sounding inconsequential. Yeah. This sounds like an album that people are just going to forget about pretty quickly. There's reason to be indifferent, I think, to a lot of the.

More so. And I'm not trying to, I'm actually trying to distinguish this from just being a like I don't know that there's that much on here to go like you know fart noise at it's terrible it's more just that I don't it doesn't doesn't get my pulse up in in very many ways and so maybe there's an opportunity for something like that that feels like an album deep cut they weren't necessarily expecting to do anything to get a little bit of traction I just want to acknowledge that I agree with you that the Gracie Abrams song is the closest thing there is on here

to something that I think a lot of people are gonna hear. And even that is not performing, like I think it sounds like a hit more than I think the data shows us that it is one. That's very true. This thing all in is 34 minutes.

It's not very long. It's got a few interludes. There's just not a lot on here. And I think the stuff that is substantive, meaning not an interlude like, do you want to be perfect or the opening number I said, I loved you first, which are just these little interludes, I think don't want to cry and cowboy. And how does it feel to be forgotten?

and you said you were sorry. These songs are all sort of blurring together for me. They're a little bit sleepy, and they're fine. Like you said, there's nothing bad about them. They just don't grab you by the throat melodically or lyrically. They leave you in this sort of state of purgatory a little bit. And there are some other things that surround it that are a little more interesting. But yeah, I mean, that's just sort of how I was left.

It wasn't like me, but it was like mid. Well, and it's, it's in contrast with the press tour, right? Yes. There are going to be tons and tons of people who are aware, generally, that Selena Gomez and Benny Blanco are together, that they are collaborating together, that they are building their relationship into that collaboration and publicizing it really, really, really aggressively. That she sings about his dick? Well, yes, that too. You know, they say three times is a trend. So Miley Cyrus or I don't know whoever it's going to be, but I'm waiting.

But it just does- Pop Dick Spring. 2024 brought you pop girl spring 2025. They say there's no men in pop music. It just, to me, the music lands in contrast with sort of like the scale. of the press tour to the point where it feels like it is just sort of in service this additional thing along with going on hot ones, along with doing interview magazine. And it's just this thing that exists alongside all of those to remind us that these two

people are together, which is fine. I'm happy for them. But like, as a fellow cancer engaged to a Pisces, simply no one needs to hear from us that much. But so can we just start where we were at the top? Absolutely. Did you like this album more than you thought? Like, was there a moment in which you said, yeah, we should do a full episode on it?

I had more to say about this album than I thought I might. Okay. There's more that engaged me than I thought. That's fine. I do think I didn't think I was going to like it very much. And I think I thought it was maybe less offensive than I expected to. Okay. Well, there is some super offensive stuff on this album. There's also a few moments that I enjoy. Me too. What do you think the press tour is in service of, though? They don't seem to me to be like

fame-hungry or attention-hungry human beings. Is this just like an expression of their love for each other and they're just sort of giddy and don't get the cringe around the edges? Although I don't think all of it has been cringe. Like I said, I think they've been so. some really cute moments. I just don't totally understand the press blitz. I, so let's entertain for a second the possibility that they're just super in love. And I do think most of it is pretty cringy, but like that's a cringy state of being, right? Like when you're so, so, so obsessed with another person and you really think that-

It's not cynical you and I are. We're like, oh, fuck off you two. Well, I'm a much more cynical person, maybe than Selena Gomez. And I hope that that's the truth. That's the, that's the world that I would like to live in, but that's why they're doing this. I don't even think that the alternate possibilities are like deeply cynical and she's selling plenty of lip liner already. Like that's not what this is about. Although the irony of her talking about selling products to make other people feel better. Yeah, it was not lost on me either.

Oh, it's not lots on anyone on do you want to be perfect? Hi, do you want to be perfect? Do you want to be sexy? I mean, you also know my stance on the spoken word interludes, which is we need to, we as a society, need to take a break. You have a problem with them. I just, they are becoming too common a feature. And you know what I think is happening?

It's if you don't, you are public. I want to talk about this later, but this is an album that is being marketed as this album about a loving relationship that is mostly breakup songs. And when you have a thin- Or other people's songs. Or other people's songs. When you have a thin narrative structure, I think a very easy way to kind of try to stand over some of that is to toss in these little spoken word things. a lot of artists are doing it and a lot of artists are leaning on it. And that's my general

problem with it is just, I think it's being overused so we could take a break and come back later. But I do think that sometimes it's a crutch. Okay. Well, I appreciated I said I loved you first being the first song. So I have this launch pad that you've all given me because now I can do so many wonderful things because it does. Because I actually, though I don't think it really helps me understand the album any better, I think it gives me the glass-half-full reason why they're out doing this press tour because I think there's a lot about being a musician that was hard for her mentally. And that not that long ago, she was saying publicly, I don't know when my new music is going to come. And I project from my own sort of wishes for them, I guess, this idea,

and they've talked about this on the press tour, this idea that he actually helped her pick music as a medium backup. And that he sort of saved as the wrong word, but he gave her a safe place to get back into music and sort of re-inspired her to make her fourth album. And that that state of mind where she was very grateful,

but in tears and hoping to make people proud with whatever she did going forward, some of those tears, I wonder if they weren't because she knew that music was hard for her and she wasn't sure when she was going to come back to it. So that's my glass half full of why they maybe would get out there is it's a little bit of a celebration of her rediscovering the medium as an artist.

Well, in that little speech, which is taken from this farewell speech that she gave to the Wizards of Waverly Place cast, look, when we're talking about Selena Gomez as a person with this massive, massive fan base, she was part of that generation of performers who came out of the Disney ecosystem at the same time as Miley, as the Jonas brothers, as Demi Lovato, you know, Taylor not specifically from that ecosystem, but these young, young adults are people moving into adulthood who, you know, really, really appealed to like people exactly my age. And that microgeneration really can stand pretty hard.

And so I think sort of tossing something in that direction is at least smart if there are certain parts of it where, you know, I turn it on and go, oh, gosh, do we have to start with one of these spoken word things again? Yeah. So I get it. I get it. Well, from there, it goes right into younger and hotter than me, which is that sort of essence of her stardom to me. all of the girls at this party are younger and harder than me do you hear new year's day piano vibe on that song and more broadly do you hear any threads of taylor swift in this and i'm sorry that we're doing this but there is a direct conversation

in some of the PR that they did about how she turned him into a swiftie not so much of a Swifty that he recognizes any of the song titles. He still seems to be like, put on that one that goes. We're like driving in the car, listening to Taylor Swift songs from 10 years ago and feeling free. I'm like, okay, Benny Blanco, like, I get it. I've been there. Wow.

We've all done that. You are a 32-year-old woman. That is awesome. But there is some, a few tiny little threads. There's the New Year's Day piano vibe on younger and hotter than me. Waited outside your part There's glitter on the floor after the party There's like

I mean even Sunset Boulevard Has some wildest dreams in it And a lot of these little Somewhat like I said That some of the sleepy songs have A little bit of Taylor On the back half of tortured poets on Cowboy Like that

Well so yes in the sense That Taylor is doing a bit of a Lana impression on much of the back half of tortured poets. And yes, I do. I hear what you're saying about younger and hotter than me. In general, Taylor Swift is not the name that comes to mind on this album in terms of who the influences are that are coming through incredibly strongly. The Lana one in particular.

Yeah. How does it feel to be forgotten? How does it feel to be forgotten? You said you were sorry. Right. Those two in particular, I think they blend. Like, for me, those two are hard to differentiate from each other. And it's in part because both of them sound like Lana impressions.

They do. They really do. I just would note that Taylor Swift had a very long Instagram hiatus that was broken by shouting out this album. A hundred days. How much she was loving it, which to which I sort of, once I listened to it, I was like, well, that's because you're, it's like, it's like, it's like, a little bit like looking in a mirror. Like you're looking at this going, oh, I taught her that. Well, and also they're very good friends.

And yes, of course. If a lot of decisions around this album have been made out of deep friendship, deep love, rather than, you know, sound decision making, then we should, in its own way, celebrate that because I want everyone involved to be happy here. Well, as we get back into our little structure of a show, I will just say that for all of my mid comments about this album, I think, Call Me When You Break Up is my second favorite pop song of the year so far. I just love it. I do. I think it probably will be the biggest hit unless the Maria's song

continues to catch on. And I think it's the best song on the album. I love it. I love, I love, I don't know why I in particular think Gracie's vocal lines are terrific. Maybe it's because it's such a short pop song that they cram that sort of syncopated vocals into it and the way that she just does little tiny runs outside of the melody that Selena set down. I just dig it. It just feels very current to me. Feels made for that digestible TikTok-y era. I thought the video was great.

I love this song. The rest of the album, I will not come back to, but I won million percent will come back to call me when you break up a bunch. Now, that said, the song gets a little less awesome when you know it's about friendship between two women instead of like a somewhat spiteful and wishful suitor. Oh, do you think so?

A little disappointing. Do you think so? I really, yes. I get more excited about that. of like, you know someone who's totally lovesick and wants to hang out with her boyfriend all the time. And she's sort of like, all right. That's what you're saying to Selena after this press tour, I gather. Right.

Like, call me when you guys break up and we'll go get drinks and it'll be fun. I actually think that's kind of cheeky and cool. I like the spiteful, like sort of sick burn. Call me when you break up. Well, but is that, but is there a way in which that's really a, that's really sort of a spiteful burn, though? because if you're saying that to a potential partner, isn't it calming when you break up so that we can get together? Yes, it is, it is, it is, it is.

But do you know what the name is on the voicemail? I still can't figure it out. No. We don't. Sorry. Can't help you. It sounds like Alec Baldwin's wife's name. Hilaria?

Or Hillary, her actual name. Illaria. But it's all like, but it's all like. It's processed to not be able to hear anyway. That's the thing. That's the code I'm going to crack. I'm sure it's out there in the darker corners of the internet and I'm just being lazy. Well,

but my initial searches didn't find it. Or, I mean, this is an album that is really devoid of Easter eggs. For something that has been marketed as this is inherently pertinent to someone's personal life, there are very few clues or specific details. And lyrically, I think that is significantly to its detriment. Now, again, at the same time, we have discussed at length the potential pitfalls of putting it all out on Maine. But I do think that she is so and perhaps rightfully so worried about anyone listening to a song

and going, oh, is that about Justin Bieber? Is that about the weekend? That there is a lot that goes unsaid in a way. way that makes these songs harder to relate to or really even just dive into, I think, because there is to me an intentional effort to stop any digging for clues, including, I mean, maybe we should, I would have to go back. Perhaps it's out there somewhere. Somebody's figured it out and maybe it does have a meaning. But I think it's more likely that that is intentionally very fuzzy and hard to identify. Okay. Well, she does that with everything on this album,

except Benny Blanco's package because Sunset Boulevard just a ridiculous song and all of the dressing up this was the thing that turned me off a little bit it's so obvious guys

just lean into it instead of talking about the romantic nerves of your first date I don't know I didn't get it well I mean the general portrayal

of their relationship on this album not in the press store in the album is basically, you guys, we're doing it a lot. Yeah. There's not a lot of like,

you know, it doesn't go very far beyond that. There's just, that's just sort of what we get. Which great. And that's, yeah, great.

I mean, but that's what I mean about. I didn't actually learn that much about them from the lyrical content of these songs. No. It's not a deep album.

No, you've learned that they're fucking. Like, which again, the many songs. have been written about this subject, but it is a little bit incongruent with the way that they've

been out and about and promoting it. Can I say that Sunset Boulevard worked better for me within the context of the album than it did on its own? In what way? Look, a lot of these songs don't have a lot of personality.

They're a little sleepy. And, and... Say what you want. You're trying hard here. Say what you want. It has energy. It has some verve. It's kind of funny.

Okay. It worked for me better within the context of the album than outside of it. Especially because, again, I was sort of like in search of the songs that were about the two of them together. And, you know, maybe that's not. not the part that I wanted insight into, but beggars can't be choosers, I suppose. I just want to touch it, touch it. Try your hardest not to bust it. I just wanted to. Yeah, that part, the whisper, the whispered part I cannot get behind. That I can't, I cannot abide. It's enough already. I don't know. What are we doing here?

I found myself, I found myself finding a kind of fun. I will, can I give you what the song that I actually, look, I agree with you that if there's anything, whatever is the closest to a hit is going to be call me when you break up. Okay. Can we talk about bluest flame? Yeah, we can. Look, is this a brazen Charlie X-EX rip? Of course.

Yes. Do I think that she should use all of that lip liner money to buy as many unreleased? Charlie demos as she can get her hands on and record all of them. Also, yes. Yeah. I mean,

she acknowledges the Charlie thing. And I think that the back part of that goes pretty hard. Totally. There's a lot of the clurb in that song.

It's going to work in a Beezza summer night shows. It's going to work at a Vegas day pool party. I love the breakdown of the end. And I would like to be there listening to it, more in a visa than in Vegas.

But the thing about Selena Gomez as a musical artist is she's always been able to be pretty convincing in these packages that are kind of anonymous, like where the music is not super personal, or she can be a chameleon with different sounds. And I think she's actually pretty well suited to hop in. into a package like this. And maybe I wasn't bothered by, you know, even if you don't know that Charlie X-E-X wrote this song, you would know that Charlie X-E-X wrote this song. Yeah. But she also wrote Same Old Love.

And so... Yeah. And now she wrote Same Old Love, I don't know if it was for Selena originally, but she wrote Same Old Love sort of as a songwriter in a way that this, I think, was something that Charlie might have, tried singing and then she cast it aside and it wound up here. But I do think that Selena is very deft and like she can inhabit these tracks and she can sing them well and she's nimble vocally.

And there's just like all of a sudden, I don't know, I just found there was a lightness on this that is not present in large part, especially on the back half. So I'll be listening to that dog. Yeah, you could You could have convinced me in the second half of the song that it was on the Brat remix Like that's

Like the sonically it sounded cool This is Maybe this is This was going to be a track on Brat Before Charlie unlocked something Lyrically Right And she starts going in the direction

Of trying to be a little bit more revelatory Lyrically But sort of before that sliding doors moment, I think this would have totally fit in. And I have, I have yapped forever about how Brat is one of my absolute favorite albums in reason memory. So I guess it tracks that I like it. But that was my favorite song. Yeah. It made me a little bit disappointed in Benny. Because the moments where this album elevates are in the collabs. It's the Marias. It's great. It's Charlie. It's Jay Baldwin and Tiny who produces Bad Bunny. It's Julia Michaels, whose contributions as a writer you can hear on Call Me When You Break Up, who has worked with Selena a bunch in the past. She did hands to myself and Bad Liar, which are both, I think, some of her strongest. hands to myself

with my feelings on fire guess I'm a bad liar And I'm glad you said that because when I was thinking about collaborators I'm writing three or four names down before I get to Benny Blanco who's credited as an artist

on every single one of these songs as well as being a producer And maybe he's just there for the vibes maybe he's doing the Michael Gaga thing here and that's fine he's got her back to music great

just like Michael Gagga back to pop. But I do think that we're speaking to the fundamental... This is going to sound harsh, but there's a soullessness to this album because it feels like... It feels more like Post-Malones, you know, one trillion collabs with a bunch of people that sound cool and good.

But mercenary. Mercenary. And it's hard of... to take, I think, within the context of, you know, we're so in love with each other and that's what this is about. It's tough to make an album about your love that doesn't sound particularly loving or even emotional. Right. And again, we're dealing with someone who has some fragility and in particular around music. So maybe she is, look, the extent to which she's, the extent to which she's talking about herself on this album.

And in a lot of cases, it's about not loving the fame and the insecurity around that, as much as it is about love, I think. But, you know, listen, Chapel's fragile, and we get a hell of a lot of emotion and depth in those songs. It just felt like Selena was struggling to even get back into it and that this wasn't a project that was designed for her to pour her heart out.

that it was more, let's get her back on tape. Can I posit a theory that I think is related to all of that? Okay. So she, I mean, before this, Selena Gomez has three full-length

studio albums as a solo artist. She put out Stars Dance in 2013, revival in 2015, and Rare in 2020. And between revival and rare, she put out several singles and collabs with other artists.

She did, We Don't Talk Anymore with Charlie Puth. She did, It ain't me with Kygo. Like that song. I love both of those songs. She did Wolves with Marshmallow, which I love that song.

I am a big fan of that song. I've been running through the jungle. I've been running with the wolves to get to you. It is, it's, it's, it's a moment in time because it is so much of that like pop EDM crossover era. But that is a, that is a jam that I'm particularly fond of. And all of those songs got real traction. And so she'd created a formula where particularly as someone who, one, has other businesses and other parts of her career that she's busy working on. And two, has a, has had a complicated.

relationship with this part of her career with putting out music. She can just toss some stuff out there, see if it sticks, stay in the conversation, you know, stay sort of in shape of doing it. And then when she was ready with the album, she came out with the album. Now, since Rare, she has had one huge song, which was Calm Down in 2023. It was huge, which she featured on. But since then, the singles, primarily single soon and love on I'm picking out this dress, trying on these shoes, because I just haven't really landed.

Single soon got to, I think, number 19 on the Hot 100, and that was the peak of of anything kind of leading up to this. And I don't hear on this the bones necessarily of, oh, this was going to be a Selena Gomez solo album that maybe they realized didn't quite have the goods and then got repurposed into this thing that, you know, you can mark it as this charming creation between romantic partners that just meant a lot to them and therefore they put it out. and it doesn't quite have the stakes or the pressure of, oh, you know. Do you think this is air cover for her? I don't know. I'm throwing it out there as a theory. Do I really, really think that this was the beginnings of a Selena solo album they realized didn't really have it and then got changed into this?

I can't say with my chest that I feel that that is more likely than not. I just, it's a thought that crossed my mind listening to this. I don't think you're out of bounds on it. And I'll say why. Maybe we're going to get a Selena tour. I doubt it. I do not think that she is comfortable going out and touring. So I think it's reasonable to say, I mean, I think that's what this is about.

I think she struggles from time to time and maybe always. And that getting her back into this was not an easy thing to do. And that is why for all the fun, we're making a Benny on this stuff. Like, he clearly, I think there's a reason he's next to her on every single one of these interviews. I think it makes it easier for her to do it. Sure. I think she's comfortable and feels safe and protected. And just like she was able to create this with her hand being held,

I think it's probably a lot easier to go do these shows with her hand being held. That's not to say she's not. I mean, she is a force of creativity. But her mental health issues are well done. documented. And so, um, I mean, this is a woman who's been through a lupus diagnosis, a kidney transplant, like her, her, her mental health and her physical health have been, she's had very public struggles with both and not wanting to go on tour. Like, more power to you. Do what you want. Well, and, and look, uh, we talked about the Taylor stuff

before. Selina has something she could teach Taylor because for, for all of Taylor's fame and fortune and business acumen, Taylor Swift has not really started a consumer product, right? If there's one thing they suck at, it's the merch. Right. But like, yeah, although I will say that, look, I, I want to make it super clear. I am coming to this episode from a place of, I have historically really liked Selena Gomez's music. Okay. Selena Gomez is a, as a musical artist, as a singer, as a songwriter, is not Taylor Swift. And when you are Taylor Swift, I just, because I believe this very strongly, I want to go on record as saying that one thing that I deeply appreciate about the wildly consumer-minded commercial animal that is Taylor Allison Swift is that she has never tried to sell me lip gloss. Fair enough.

The day that that really changes. Well, but she's tried to sell you Diet Coke and Capital One and shoes. Being through sponsorships is different. Is it? I find it different, yes. the 13 different creations of Taylor in the elevator and the glass of wine overflowing at the airport bar how would that be different if she was the owner

of the equity in those companies? I think it becomes a core business in a way that being a spokesperson for a brand, you know, she can move on from that in a way that Selena Gomez cannot move on from rare beauty without significant disentanglement. But I think you would agree, and I am super not the expert on this one,

rare beauty makes like good products. Yes. People really like it. Absolutely. I have a blush. There's a reason it's worth a billion or something. I have a blush. I have a lip liner,

and I like all of them. And I think it's well-made. People really like it. And that's great. Again, like, and I don't mean to be comparing the two of them or putting anyone down. I think if we're talking about Taylor Swift,

it was like a generationally important and significant artist. The fact that she has never changed the pie chart of her core businesses to sell me tequila or lip gloss, I applaud. You'd rather have 800,000 different versions of vinyl of an al-virus mix? No, I'd rather have neither, but at least it's about, at least it is in some way, shape, or form connected to the music. This is something that I do respect about Taylor, and I'm feeling it'll end someday, but I'm just, I just want you to know that I'm holding on for dear life.

I think what I'm saying is that I think that Taylor so far, cosplays a bit in other mediums, but hasn't actually stepped in and done it. Like, okay, so there's a movie coming and all right, she directs the video. and does a little bit of acting. Like, Selena is, she has a billion-dollar brand. She has an Emmy-winning television show, and she's got the music. I mean, she is stepping out.

She was reviewed as the, you know, in the Lady Gaga Forum, best part of a bad movie in Amelia Perez. I have a lot of respect for that because it's one thing to dabble. It's another to have equity, either your own brand equity, as she does in rare or in the television show,

and actual equity, as in she is an owner in rare. No, she built a business. I have respect for it, too, for her. What I am saying, and I'm trying not to be, I'm trying not to make this about what somebody isn't and just about what somebody is, I think when you are as historically significant to musician as Taylor's lived,

I think the calculus is a little different. Okay. Well, I think it's that they've been very conservative and safe, and they haven't actually wanted to take the risk. And so some of the things, some of the rewards of Selena's own personal net worth have come from actually taking those risks. And I think that it's actually a very bold thing for her to have done, particularly given the mental fragility that she's had with some of the public nature of who she is. I guess the last question I would ask you about rare is, have you felt like the crossing over has pushed... Uh, you away, has it diminished the way that you think about her as an artist? No.

I think it has diminished her commitment to being an artist. Yes. Because guess what? Taylor Swift became a billionaire by touring the world. Selena Gomez became a billionaire by selling you blush. Right. And it's a lot less time intensive in a very specific way where you have to be away from your home. You have to be away from, from, from, from, from, from,

what is possibly a growing family and her making that choice for herself is great, I'm all for it. I don't think she made that choice within the context of the same opportunities that are available to Taylor Swift.

Okay. But I also think that it's like not a one of one, but one of, you know, not that many celebrity beauty brands that really pan out. I mean, I think Gaga's has done okay. But maybe not.

Ironically, it's Haley Bieber and her who have really... And Rihanna. Yeah. Of course. And there are a lot more that have not worked out. So that's, no, she's done super well. The Ariana stuff, not clear that that's gone very well. I forgot about that.

Yeah. No, there's been a zillion and they mostly fail. And most, most of them do. So her ability to carry a brand is very impressive. And I think, like you said, these things are more likely to fail than not. And probably a testament to the quality of the decisions that she's made and the quality of the product that they make.

But I do think coming back to the collaborator side of things, that at the core, it feels like there's a lot of people carrying water across this album. A lot of people carrying water and all. also a lot of people, a lot of people sort of content to let her or them do sort of whatever they feel like and whatever makes them happy, which I think carries the vibe of, everybody knows that the stakes of this really aren't that high. This isn't the, this is not the core business. This is whatever we want to do. Benny, I do think it is interesting that you just don't really hear him. I mean, in a literal sense and in a production sense, he's a pretty versatile producer. He's worked in a lot of different genres and sounds.

But, I mean, you know, this is a person who came up on TikTok by Kesha and I kissed a girl by Katie Perry and Dynamite by Taya Cruz. And those are like intense songs in a way that almost none of this is intense. So he just feels totally absent to me. Well, I guess he doesn't to her. There's another song at the end of this album that we heard earlier, which was scared of loving you, which is Afinius co-write. Because I'm not scared of loving you. I'm just scared of losing you.

That, again, I mean, I said this before. It really has the CSN R House vibes to me. And that, we've seen some. albums this year that close with the schmaltzy personal ballad, all of which that we've talked about and heard this year have fallen flat for us. The Tate song, the Gaga ballads at the end. This one, it's just that we got to break out of this. Stop it. Stop with the interludes and stop with the like, do you think it is because of New Year's Day? Yes, there you go. Exactly. Stop.

Just because it, again, this is like, I feel like, I will say what I've said before. Just because it worked for Taylor Allison Swift does not mean it's going to work for you. I don't mind. Like, that song, I mean, is that your, will you tell me what you would cut in a way that does not make, you know, total. I'd cut Tornset Boulevard. I can't handle it. It's too much. That's not even close to the top of my list.

Yeah. do you think don't take it personally is about Beber? Please don't take something so just meant to Yeah, probably. Which one? What do you mean by that?

Do you think it's about Justin or Haley? Oh. Sorry. She said that this is from a personal experience. No, sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry. I am mixing up, again, this is a hazard with this record.

I am mixing up songs that sounds like Lana Del Rey Rapops Don't take it personally I think is about someone who I don't think we know who that's about I think that's about someone who used to be with Benny or wanted to be with Benny Okay

Because that song is like he loves me Like you're telling someone not to take it personally That your boyfriend doesn't like them He likes you Mm-hmm I think that you said you were sorry and in particular, how does it feel to be forgotten? I think those are the ones where I go,

okay, that's probably where this is coming from. But I do feel that they are intentionally vague and intentionally not giving any Easter eggs. Well, she's been somewhat descriptive about a few of these things. She's got some explainers that she's made across a few of these songs, which I think are interesting. but she was so in her spoken word about don't take it personally, she's so mealy-mouthed.

She's like, this is actually me and an experience of someone maybe in my past that had gone through whatever they needed to go through to get through life. And this felt, this is odd to say, but yes, I'm the person that had happened to. This one brought out the stumble bum in the way. way that she spoke. Interesting. Perhaps telling. Yeah, I think she told on herself a little bit with that one.

There isn't a ton of insight in some of these other explainers that she did. But this one, it felt like, all right, is this about it? And again, the Bieber situation is strange because there were the talks, there was the talk of bullying and all the online fan stuff that I can't really make sense of. I don't know if you have a view on that. But my only view on it is that it is a big, it has a, it has a, that relationship and how much people followed when they were on and when they were off and what happened and picking sides,

I just think has had a huge tale on how she is perceived for better and for worse. Because I think there are a lot of people who got on her side very early and very vociferously because of that. And I think there were a lot of people who decided that they find her annoying at best because of of all of that. And I just, I think the, there's part of me that wants to be like, okay, if these songs are about Justin Bieber, like, what are we doing here?

It is 20, 25. Can we move on? But I actually think that that's probably an ungenerous read in the sense that I do think that she is still seen as the on and off again, who seemed so, so affected by him. And so in some ways,

I think, you know, how could you not? Well, she got the good end of the bargain, I think. What would you cut? So I would cut. The one I have to cut is Cowboy. In particular, just because it's like, I don't know. I think it's hard to pick which one of these sounds the most like Alana rip, but this one sounds so much.

It's like an Addison Ray ripoff of Alana song, all smushed together, and it's actually Selena Gomez. I really, though, don't enjoy the uncredited Glorilla outro. Make you want to smack your mama, you know? I'm going to put their bitch in sports mode and rat until I can't no more have you. Where, you know, she's talking about herself in the bedroom. And I've, like, to very jarringly and suddenly in an uncredited manner basically use this, this black female hip hop artist to amp up the sexuality of your sexy song on your album.

Like, I found pretty upsetting even. So that's the one that I've really got to get rid of. I think, you know, take your pick of you said you were sorry or how does it feel to be forgotten. I think I find how does it feel to be forgotten conceptually more interesting? Because I like that it's a mean idea. And I wish that she would go there, but I don't think that she's willing to go there. So I guess I would cut you said you were sorry. And then younger and hotter, I think it's just a snooze fest. Yeah. All right. I'm okay with it. I mean, that means collectively you basically cut everything between the two of us. Oh yeah. And I would cut all the spoken words. You want a four-minute album called Call Me When You Break Up. Call Me When You Break Up, Blue is to Flame.

I like the Maria's song. You know what? I like Don't Want to Cry. It's fine I mean It's It's saying You in your tracks With that one It just

It sounds like Some of the other stuff I mean The things to me Well but it sounds like It sounds like The sort of like Every

I do think that there's a weird micro trend Of artists Really being influenced By the tame Impala song From Barbie Um

And I will once again say Shout out To Radical Optimism By and therefore, like, for obvious reasons, I'm sort of fine with it. Like, I like that sort of psychedelic dance break. Yeah. I like that song.

I'm cool with that song. And I'm weirdly cool with Sunset Boulevard. It's fine. I don't understand why I can't get enough as on here. It's a song from 2019. Yeah. Crazy. Really weird.

She was just like, I just wanted to put it in there. It does feel a little. little bit like a scrapbook of non sequiturs. There just isn't an arc to this thing and it at its best moments, you've got a J. Baldwin song and a Gracie song and a Phineas song and a Charlie XX song in a song that is an impression of Lana Del Rey. Three songs that are an impression of Lana Del Rey. Yeah, a song about Beaver and a Maria's song and then a little ballad at the end. That's kind of what this album is. And I'm still glad she's back.

I'm glad she's here. Thank you very much for call me when you break up. Sure. Yeah. Can I give you a best lyric? Yes, I've already given you mine. So the opening line of Sunset Boulevard is, you're my cherry pie. I don't care who knows it.

Which, I don't think is actually self-aware. But if I read that to be self-aware, from the people who brought us Valentine's Day bathtub queso saying, I don't care who knows it, you two have made sure that everybody and their mother knows it. So I am extending my disbelief to hear that as a wink at that, even though I don't really think that that's true.

And when I think about it that way, it charms me. Okay. You've talked yourself into knots. You've really had to try hard here. This is me trying. I gave this album a C. Yeah. Why didn't you give it a D? Because it's almost too boring to give it a D.

Like a D has to fail spectacularly. It has to really annoy you. It has to do something. This just doesn't do much. Right. Right. This is a collection. of things that lots of other people helped on.

And yet, I come away from this, like, I still really like Selena. This doesn't change the way that I think about her, in part because it didn't teach me very much about her. I think this was in the, there's one review that was not a great review of this album. Yes, here it is. It was pitchfork. But it ended on a note that I think we can end on too. And I think it's a really lovely way to think about this and a more positive way to think about this. It says in a way, Gomez has never seemed more relatable to those of us, to those of us who have phoned it in at work because we were busy being dumb and love. Perfect.

Happy for them. Happy for them. Have a great wedding. I'd love to see some details. Oh, you will. I'm sure I will. I know a lot about the ring. I know a lot about the, well, I guess we don't know the details of the proposal, but we do know that they are saving the details of the proposal for their choice.

children. We know a lot about Benny's experience of the pre-proposal and thinking that he'd messed it up. And that's great. They can continue to tell us as much as they want. I would prefer that nacho cheese not be involved is my only request. Nathan? This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Brinciatti. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to the fabulous Kaya McMullen for producing this episode and to you for listening. We'll talk to you next week.