Every Single Album - Instant Reactions to the 2025 Grammy Nominations

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

Nora and Nathan discuss the nominations for the 2025 Grammys that were announced today. They talk about whether this is the year that Beyoncé will finally win Album of the Year for 'Cowboy Carter' (1:00), make predictions for the rest of the big four awards—Song of the Year, Record of the Year, and Best New Artist (14:54)—and discuss some of the notable snubs this year, including Charli XCX for Song of the Year and Jack Antonoff for Producer of the Year (32:43). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's happening? It's Todd McShay and I'm back with a new home and a new show at the Ringer and Spotify. The McShay Show. It's a video and audio podcast coming to you year round with all my NFL draft information, big boards, mock drafts and player movement. Plus, I'll be chatting with some of my best friends in football, including some of your favorite football analysts. During the week, we'll have episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays that'll include discussions about my player rankings, who's rising, who's falling, and who your NFL team should be keeping an eye on. Plus, we'll be reacting each week to the college football playoff polls and giving you previews and picks for each Saturday's slate. In addition, I'll have episodes on

Saturday nights with my immediate reaction to the full day in college football every week. So if you love the college game, the NFL, the draft, or all of it like me, make sure to like, follow, subscribe, and get ready for the McShay show on the ringer, Spotify, and wherever you watch or listen the podcasts. And welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Pinciotti and I'm here, as always, with Nathan Hubbard. And we're going to talk about the Grammy nominations, which were released this morning. This is an episode that hopefully will glow up pretty quickly.

I will say briefly that I think this has probably been a rough week for a lot of people. And from where I'm sitting, it is nice to think about things that are just completely outside the realms of politics and things that actually matter. and therefore, to me, that makes this a perfect day to talk about the 2024 Grammy Awards. Nathan, how you doing? I'm absorbing this in real time. I'm doing fine. Yes, it's nice to have something to get excited about.

And I'll say this, we've been talking about the right stuff on every single album, according to the Academy. Yeah, the recording out of me has some pretty every single album core nominations this year. Yeah, I mean, Clearly we need to do the Andre 3000 flute album. I love that.

They always throw one complete screwball into the equation. At least one. So what we're going to do for this pod, we're going to first, we're going to go through the big four categories and just go through the nominations, record of the year, song of the year, album of the year, and best new artist. Then we can talk about some takeaways more broadly outside of those categories or lumping stuff together. And then we'll talk a little bit about predictions. Obviously, we have a long way to go until February, but just how things are shaping up in terms of who's going to actually win these things,

not just who is nominated. But in the big four, I think there's like two real kind of random Grammy curveballs. The first is the quote unquote new Beatles song now and then. Getting a nomination for Record of the Year is also kind of funny. But the Andre 3000 flute album, New Blue Sun and Album of the by far the number one thing that I did not see coming. But honestly, because that's a cool project, to me,

that is the best version of Grammy shenanigans where it's just like, you know what? That's a cool thing. These voters actually listened to it and appreciate it. I don't know what,

come on. This is such a popularity contest. There's so much politicking that happens. Did these voters listen to it or were they like, I mean, like last year, John Batiste being in the album of the year nominations with Boy Genius, Miley, Lana, Janelle, Olivia, Taylor Swift, Siza. It was like, okay, there's always a bone that gets thrown. And this felt like a bone being thrown. Yeah, to me, it's just a funny bone, no pun intended. And it's a bone to someone whose artistry I respect. And therefore, that's probably why I'm finding.

And look, Jacob Collier is an interesting. interesting artist. I mean, I think I told you this, but at the at the Joni Jam, Elton John was walking around telling everybody he thought he's the best pianist on the planet right now, which was interesting, because I think of him as being the guy who can command a small theater to, he conducts the voices of the crowd. You see those videos on social. So it's interesting, but I don't think there's any question or debate that this is still the year of the female population. artist and that we talked about this over the summer, guess what showed up in Song of the Year and Record of the Year? Kendrick Lamar's not like us. But other than that, we are talking about Beyonce. We're talking about Billy. We're talking about Chapel. We're talking about Sabrina. And we're talking about Charlie. And like after those artists, we're talking about Taylor Swift. Yeah. So let's just do some of the stats. right. So Beyonce is leading the way.

She has 11 total nominations, including record of the year, song of the year album of the year. She now has 99 for her career, which is a record. Then Billy, Post Malone, Kendrick Lamar, and Charlie XX

are next with seven each. Now, particularly in the case of Post Malone, A lot of those are for songs as a featured artist, but, you know, still count. And then six for Taylor, Sabrina Carpenter, and Chapel Rowan. So as you said, big results for the pop girls. A lot of every single album content represented in these nominees. Do you want to just go through the record of the year, Noms? Because I'm curious what you think about a couple of these things.

You want to start on record? Let's start on record. and record, record is the one for, I guess I would describe it as like the song as an event or a phenomenon or the thing that goes out into the world and is received by people. Whereas song of the year is the songwriting award. It's the production techniques. It's the music on a sheet of paper. It's the sort of technical version of this award.

And I know that's confusing sometimes. But so record of the year, this is the one where the Beatles song got nominated. Then with Beyonce, she's nominated for Texas Holden. Billy has birds of a feather. Chapel has good luck, babe. Charlie has 360.

Kendrick Lamar has not like us. Sabrina has espresso and then Taylor and Post Malone have Fortnite. I think Sabrina Carpenter did something very smart, which is that she's nominated for espresso in record of the year and she's nominated and she submitted with please please please

in song of the year. Which to me makes a lot of sense and also is helpful in distinguishing these two categories because to me espresso is the song in the summer Yep. Espresso is this sort of cultural phenomenon.

Espresso is the song that S&L is parodying with Domingo. Espresso is the event. And then please, please, please. which is also a huge hit and is a really awesome song. Like, that's a cool example of a sort of weird song, a song that has a lot of intricate little parts that have been stitched together into something

that is still a mainstream big pop hit. That's the song that they chose to submit to say, you know, open up the hood on this thing and notice how cool it is. And I think that's savvy. And I don't know if it's going to work out for her on the level of like wins. for these things.

I think that would be something of an upset in either category, although I think less so for espresso and more so for song of the year. But I thought that was very smart on her behalf to submit different songs in these categories. So you think she's not going to win record or song?

I would consider her a long shot for a song. I guess I overstated that a little bit with record. I think espresso is a contender. I think espresso is a contender for record of the year. Well, let's just quickly run through the nominees for some. song of the year so that we can sort of compare them because Beyonce's Texas Holdham is in song just as it is for record. Billy Elish's Birds of a Feather is in song just as it is for record.

Kendrick Lamar's not like us is in song just as it is for record. Japel Rones's Good Luck, Babe, is in song just as it is for record. Sabrina, as you said, did please, please, please. Taylor Swift featuring Post Malone, Fortnite is in song just as it is for record. The difference in song versus record is we get Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars die with a smile, which we We'll come back to. I know you have some thoughts. We get Shibuzi, a bar song, and we get Sabrina Carpenter's, please, please, please. So there is a lot of overlap between these two things with a few exceptions.

How do you feel about Die with a Smile, Nora? I'm just realizing, well, okay. I am just realizing that Shibuzi, a bar song, is nominated in Song of the Year rather than record of the year. Yeah. I thought that would go the opposite way. And I was so sure of that that it didn't internalize to me as having not that not having happened until now that I'm noticing now. I thought that song had a chance.

Yeah. Because that was, it was just like, it was number one for so long. It's like kind of this throwback, but done in a new way that to me is like more of that phenomenon than, you know, ultimately that song is built off a. sample of somebody else's song. Yeah, is it going to be covered in, you know, in perpetuity by lots of people and I'm not so sure. Yeah. Well, and it's also like when you open up the hood on that song, you get somebody else's, you get to somebody else's work pretty quickly.

So that's a surprising result to me while you were talking through that. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did that really happen? So that's a bizarre one. My thing with Die with a Smile, which I think is a good song, that is a very, like a huge hit and is getting played a ton on radio and it's getting streamed apparently maybe. I have yet to come across an example of someone proactively turning that song on in my life. I'm not saying I don't like it.

I think it's totally like I love I love Gaga. I love a, you know, sort of a croony Bruno Mars-esque jam. But I don't think anyone's listening to that song. and yet there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. But it's not that I think it's bad. I'm not like offended by this. It's exactly the type of song. Well, you said before we came on,

you're hearing it a lot in CVS. And that is a great way to say it. Yeah, it's being spun on hits one on Sirius XM and people's cars a lot. But I don't know that anybody's at a party and they're like, put on die with a smile. Right, put on die with a smile. Like, that's my jam.

Or even like, hey, it's date night we're staying in. let's, here's my playlist. Right. Like, it's not on your dinner party playlist. It's not on your like getting ready playlist. It's not, no one's at the pregame playing die with a smile. Well,

somebody is because the stats say that that, that song is rolling right now. Yeah, all the Grammy voters. All the Grammy voters pre-gamed the Joni Jam where they went and talked about Jacob Collier with Die with Smile on repeat. That's my new theory of the case.

Well, and on the, in the Gaga, sense, like, I'm not sure that you needed to come out with disease the single because die with a smile is going great. And disease has not been particularly well received, at least if you look at the stats. It's shocking to me. What's shocking? That more people are engaging with die with a smile than disease, which is not to say that I think disease is a particularly groundbreaking Lady Gaga's song. Right. But it does represent a lot of my favorite things about Lady Gaga, and I just think is a more exciting piece of

of music, but that's okay. I think we'll have some chances to talk about Gaga pretty soon. It's not going to be in the context of the Grammys, because I don't think it's winning. Or at least I don't think it's worthy of winning. Let me put it that way. As we come back to, like, who's going to win these things?

I mean, this is going to be a confusing category distinction, record and song for a lot of people because of the overlap. And I think you're exactly right, that submitting espresso for record and please, please, please for song is probably the best teachable way

to inform sort of random onlookers and fans what the difference is between these things. But yeah, I... Do you think Taylor? Do you think Taylor has a shot in either of these? No. I don't either. I don't think Taylor's going to win a Grammy.

I don't think that Fortnite is a song worthy of winning either of these categories. I kind of dig it more than you do. We've established that, but I do not believe that Taylor should win either of the three big categories that she's nominated for.

I just don't know. This time, there are some other things that are more interesting that are, I just think, better from a, you know,

straight assessment. I think I really love tortured poets. I'm glad it exists in the world. As I said, I think Fortnite I'm into every time it comes on. I heard down bad the other day. I was like,

God, so much. You know how I feel about Black Dog. I can do it with a broken art. There's a lot of really good stuff on that album. I just think that both individual songs and one of the great things about 2024 is that the individual songs and the recordings and then the full albums, there are a lot of really, really eye-opening, fun, meaningful things that are going to endure in ways that this one won't outside of the Taylor Swift cinematic universe. I think there are basically three situations to consider.

And I guess I'm talking about sort of like broad trends. There could be some vote splitting. There could be a random result in one category and chalk and others. Like, it's always stuff like that. But in general, I think there are three basic situations that I'm considering. One is that this is really the year for Beyonce. And that Cowboy Carter is an album that I think was really successful in terms of accomplishing what it set out to accomplish.

And a lot of those things are in line with the sort of, you know, historical excavation project of Americana, roots music, music history, country. You have Blackbird. You have Jolene. You have all of these signifiers of things that Grammy voters love. And it is almost as if Beyonce, we've talked about this, is staring down the voters and saying, if you're not going to give it to me for this, you're not going to give it to me for anything.

And so I think situation one is that they take her seriously in that and that she not, I agree. It started with Jay Z's speech last year at the Grammys. But this has been basically, this will have been a year-long campaign, including that speech, including this album, including the choices that were made to create it, and that it'll just be a huge, huge night for her. And, you know, whether,

like I don't think that that represents the actual triumph of like I think if that happens, Beyonce will have accomplished much greater and much more interesting things than cleaning up at the Grammys in February. But I do think that that's one potential outcome here. I do think another another potential outcome is that one thing that Grammy voters have proven time and time again is they love Billy Eilish. Yeah.

And she's nominated, you know, she's record of the year, song of the year, both for Birds of a Feather and then hit me hard and saw for album of the year. And if there's someone, like, I thought through the situation of, is there a world in which this is really sort of supposed to be Beyonce's year? And the person who starts to hear the name of their album announced is going to have that pit in their stomach that they have to go up and do the Harry Styles thing. And what if that's tortured? poets. What if that's Taylor? And where I wound up is it's not, I just really don't think it's going to be. No, I don't think they'll let it happen. I think there's a world in which they let it happen

with Billy. I wouldn't say it's likely, but I think if it's going to happen with anyone, it's going to be Billy Eilish. And just to be clear, album of the year nominees, Andre 3000's New Blue Sun, which is the flute album, Beyonce's Cowboy Carter, Billy Elish has hit me hard and soft, Chapel Rones the Rise and Fall of Midwest Princess, Charlie XX's Brat, Jacob Collier's Jesse Volume 4. for Sabrina Carpenter's Short and Sweet, Taylor Swift's, the Torture Poets Department. And I don't think there's any debate. That category is between Billy and Beyonce, and it should be. I think Chappell's album is great.

I think Brat deserves a little bit of a look. I think Short and Sweet is super well written, but I think it's between Billy and Beyonce, period. And I think you're right that it's Beyonce's year. And the fact that it's Beyonce's year makes the decision between record and song very interesting because Billy Eilish walking away without a Grammy in one of these three categories

especially because as you pointed out, Phineas is not nominated for producer. Neither is Jack. We'll come back to that. Billy Elish delivering hit me hard and soft and walking away without a major Grammy will be shocking.

And to me feel wrong because I think of everything that's been put out this was the one that was the most surprising. This was the one that was the most interesting. This was the one that sort of evolved her as an artist the most. Yeah. So I would have told you prior to this, Sabrina's going to get record for espresso or a song for Please, Please, Please. And whichever one she doesn't get, Kendrick's going to get. But I think to your point. Yeah, that was what we talked about when we talked about the sort of way too early predictions, however long ago that was. Yeah. But I think to your point now,

if Beyonce's going to get Cowboy Carter album of the year ahead of Billy are they really going to let her walk away without something for birds of a feather which has been as strong and candidly from a streaming perspective stronger than not like us I think Sabrina having dominated the charts

and with three songs in the Hot 100 for consecutive weeks breaking all kinds of records I think she's going to walk away with one of these You think Sabrina's going to Because to me Sabrina's I think the case is stronger

I think the case is stronger for espresso in record of the year than it is for please please please So Sabrina takes it I think you're probably right So I think she takes record for espresso And Billy maybe sneaks in

With Birds of a Feather on song Over Not Like Us And then if beyond And then Beyonce would win for Cowboy Carter. Yeah, and I think Chappell walks away with Best New Artist.

Which means that, which would mean two songs not sort of acknowledged or two projects not acknowledged would be Kendrick Lamar

not like us and then just sort of brat as a whole. Obviously could be recognized in the pop or electronic categories but in terms of

the big ones. She'll win, she will win for electronic album and I think that's why she lobby. be to be there. Charlie XEX will.

So she'll walk with that one. The most interesting, like, the most interesting category is country album of the year, where you've got Lainey Wilson, Casey Musgraves, you've got the Post Malone project,

you've got Beyonce, you got Chris Stapleton. I mean, those are all solid-ass entries. Yeah, it's a heavyweight category. And only one of them made it up. and I think it's telling. I am surprised from this list that there's no post Malone,

I had some help with Morgan Wallen. And, you know, there's that sort of ongoing ice out of some of these artists. Morgan Wallen at some point is going to go the way of half of the black artists in the country who have decided, you know, fuck this.

And if Beyonce Canterley doesn't win album of the year, I'm not sure why they'd ever show up. I will jump in and say that I think Morgan Wallens I don't know that I necessarily agree with Morgan Wallen being iced out in the way that he's being iced out just because on some level, these awards should be a reflection of how things are in the music world at a given time in a given year. And I had some help was a huge song. And it is a little odd to not have it be included. I just will say for the record that I think the reasons for icing out Morgan Wallen are a lot more legitimate than the ways in which black artists have been ignored by the Grammys for decades.

Yeah. Well, and you got no Zach Bryan here either, and there's a whole lot happening in the last 24 hours that might, yeah, by his own. By his own choice. Yep, but I just wonder if there's going to be a de-legitimization of this award show and the sort of award categories, depending on how this goes this year. It's actually a very interesting, quiet, existential moment for the Grammys. And that is why I- Kind of for country, right? Or like country v. the V of the Grammys is, I guess what you're saying, because you didn't see a lot of, you know, I had some help was nominated in the country categories, but it was out of the big ones. Post Malone got a lot of nominations, but a lot of that is with Taylor or Beyonce. F1 trillion itself, you don't see a ton of here.

No, that's what I'm surprised at. I thought Megan Maroney would get a best new artist nomination. I actually thought that, I thought that we would see like a little bit more of a kind of country representation and maybe a little bit less of a hip hop representation. And that would be the complaint about the best new artist nominations. And then that turned out to not be the case. And then also, like, you know, you have this ongoing tension with the Cowboy Carter project and with Beyonce. And I don't, like, do you, what kind of shot do you think Cowboy Carter has in country?

Well, that's what I was saying. I mean, I think there's a decent chance that she doesn't win country album of the year, but wins overall album of the year. And that's going to be straight up weird, but you could see it. Well, and if she did win country, I wonder if that, like, I think if you are Nashville writ large, you look at these results and kind of feel a little snubbed. And I think that's for a variety of reasons, some of them very much self-inflicted. some of them stemming from the fact that I don't, it doesn't seem to me like the sort of Nashville musical establishment really treats, really has embraced Cowboy Carter as,

as their own and obviously that were different. I think the sentiment, like this would not be an accurate statement what I'm saying if, if Cowboy Carter was sort of counted among the country nominations. Yeah. But it's sort of funny because like I don't, historically, that's not been a type of music that the Grammy's, don't take seriously.

Like, there's a weird irony in that this was the road, if we're saying that this is the road, Beyonce went down to be like, you're not going to award me for doing the thing that you guys always love. It's like an interesting, it's an interesting sort of bit of tension between that and a lot of regular

Nashville power players may be feeling, like this wasn't a good year for them. Yeah. Well, they were excluded last year from album of the year as well. So I think it's... That's true. There's a reason to be somewhat suspect. I am very happy to see Casey Musgraves,

The Architect and Best Country Song, I want to say. You want to say that like that instead of saying, The Architect, suck it, which is how you phrased it when you logged onto the Zoom before we started recording. Whoops. Yeah, but look, just bringing it back to the major categories, Nora, when you look at record, to me,

Sabrina Carpenter's espresso just jumps off the page. It just does. And it had an enormous amount of impact. And I think that's the one for me. I just cannot, it's Billy, it's Billy who is the wild card. Because it's just, that album is exquisite. And it's hard to imagine it.

Again, with the Academy loving her the way that they have historically, it's hard to imagine it walking away without one of these major nominations. And it is even harder to imagine the Academy not giving Beyonce album of the year. I think now we have been... Can I say that I don't totally... Just to be clear, I don't totally... I think it's the most likely outcome. I just also do think that, like, sometimes history is a lesson.

Right? We have learned time and time again that that this body has been very reluctant to award her in that specific way. And yes, I do feel like there are all of these things building towards it being different this time. But like, I think there is a non-zero chance that this is a Lucy with the football situation regarding Beyonce and Cowboy Carter. Yeah. It will have major implications if that's the case that I don't know that the academy wants to face. And I also think you could make a lot. argument that hit me hard and soft and rise and fall are better albums. But I just think it has all been building towards this and I just don't know that they want to, they want to, you know, send away the woman who is the most nominated and has won the most, right? They don't want to send her away without an album of the year. And this was, this was intended to be the one. Now, I will say this, to me, and this may not be the case, but just as an observer, it has felt like there was a lot of promo and a lot of work done at the release of this record. And then

outside of the Levi's commercial, I haven't seen a lot. It feels like this thing sort of left the consciousness around March or April and all of these other albums, Brat and Hit Me Hard and Soft and sort of took over, short and sweet, took over the consciousness,

and there was no effort really to do a video like with Miley Cyrus or all the things that we thought might happen from this project to just keep it in people's consciousness. And that's the risk here, is that I think they wanted this to be album of the year. I think they have a good case, but I'm just not sure that they've done the work in working the voters. And clearly somebody worked the voters, because Jacob Collier has an album of the year nomination, right? So like there is work that happens, whether you like it or not, to get these awards. And that may be why, to your point, if it is a Lucy with the

football and there's no kick, i.e. Beyonce doesn't get album of the year, I think it's going to have repercussions. And that's not necessarily the reason to give the award. But it's going to be fascinating to see what they do there. And then the downstream stuff. It's inevitably, it is certainly one of the biggest storylines of the actual show will be what happens with Beyonce. And then I think it'll be, I think it'll, you know, I think Sabrina and Espresso. I think there is a good case there. I'm curious to see what happens. I do wonder if there is, I'm interested to see Charlie get the number of nominations that she has because I just felt like that was like a very either or thing where this is someone who, Charlie XX did not have a solo Grammy nomination for her entire career before today.

Yeah. And she does things that I think the Grammys historically have not really gotten. And so I think there was this question of, are they going to get it or are they not going to get it? I do think the results say that they want to respect. That's what it is. She's not winning any of these categories. You don't think she's winning anything. No.

I think this is an acknowledgement of the cultural impact and the noise and the marketing campaign and the, you know, owning an adjective and a season and a color. But I don't think it's in the running. I think and I think that there's a chance. Do you think it should be in the running? I kind of think it. I'm not saying I necessarily think it should win. I just, I do think it's a pretty remarkable album. I think it has like a fairly...

We spoke about it when it came out. And you and I both like came to this podcast together and we're like, this is really, really good. And it's only gotten better with time, I think. So the whole project to me deserves the nomination. Do I think it is objectively a better, album that I will come back to relative to the chapel Rhone record or relative to hit me hard and soft or even relative to short and sweet. I'm not sure. Now that's just my own personal taste.

But I like the album a lot. I think it belongs here. I just don't think they're going to go so far. To your point, having not sort of rewarded her in many places before, I don't think they'll go as far as to give it album of the year over. I mean, for Brad to win, it has to be a great Billy Elish album, a fascinating and culturally deep, rich Beyonce album. And it has to beat Sabrina Carpenter that had three songs in the Hot 100 for weeks consecutively. And it has to beat Taylor fucking Swift. I think that's the problem is that there's none of these categories that really fits like a glove. Because Brat, like the thing, the phenomenon of Brat is about the overall project. It is about the album. It is also a

about the way that she remixed the album. It's about the cultural phenomenon of the album. But as an album, I don't think, like, I don't think it can win album of the year. And then once you're talking about, you know, she's not nominated for a song of the year. Yeah. And that, I actually think is a shame. Like, how is, sorry, clearly this had not internalized for me before we started the podcast. But how is a bar song nominated in Song of the Year?

other than Apple or Girl So Confusing or 360 or 365. Like any of these projects that does something that I think is like actually forward thinking and interesting and inventive of like showcasing songs as these living, breathing, like, ever changeable. Stop making sense. But just to just to put the bow on it, I don't think that like then you're talking. about 360 having to win. And I don't think that one song, like, that one song, 360 as a song was not bigger than espresso.

No. 360 as a song was not bigger than not like us. So I just, I guess that's a, it's a little bit of a bummer to me because I just, I just think that Brat, like if 10 years from now, we look back at the Grammy winners from this year,

there should be some big reflection of what, what Brat has been, and there will be in the electronic stuff, but I guess that's just like... I think the sort of echo chamber cool kids really had a lot to do

with Brat and understood just from a streaming perspective, some of these other albums were more impactful on the broader music listening population. That doesn't mean that's what this is about. And we'll see. Maybe you and I are going to be pleasantly surprised. I want to make sure that we don't finish this conversation

without talking about Best New Artist. You want to run through the nominees here? Yeah, let's do it. Benson Boone, Doichi, Chapel Roan, Cranben, Ray, Sabrina Carpenter, Shaboozy, and Teddy Swims. By the way, I was interested in the fact that there was not a lot of,

not a lot of Benson Boone overall, not a lot of Teddy Swims overall. some of the like very TikToky songs did not show up that much which to me I was grateful for because maybe it's just because I'm tired of hearing them on TikTok but a lot of those are not my favorite songs. This is a competition between Chauvela

and Sabrina Carpenter. 100%. And I don't think Sabrina should be here. I just don't. I don't think of her as a new artist. Sabrina on her sixth album. since 2015. I understand that the sort of, you know, the actual conditions of this are about an artist

and when they actually, like, make impact. But she shouldn't be here. And that's, I also think just when you think about best new artist and the sort of breadth, I think about Chapel Rhone on stage at some of the most pivotal festivals of the summer and those drone shots of giant crowds going absolutely bananas. and I think that coupled with the fact that, by the way, she also, the song for which she is nominated in song and record is not on rise and fall of a Midwest princess. Right.

And so I think the aggregate sort of body of work, she should be it. I think she should be it. I think she should be it. And I also think that she is in line. Chapel is in line with the type of artists the Grammys gravitate too So I agree with you

I think she'll come home with this Like I think they like Sabrina I think again I'm You're convincing me that I that espresso Has a very good case If not a likely winning case You know Chapel There are more there are more guitars

There's more sort of like listen to my vocal artistry. I just think there will be a lot for Grammy voters to get behind there. And actually, I agree with you. I think in this category, rightfully so. Which would be, look, it would be an interesting result. But I actually think one that like a lot of people would,

I guess maybe with the exception of Kendrick Lamar, feel was fairly just if Sabrina wins record the year for espresso, Billy wins song in the year for Birds of a Feather, Beyonce wins album for Cowboy Carter and then Chapel wins for Best New Artist. Now, that would be, you know, again, just to point it out, we are talking about a Taylor shutout.

A Kendrick shutout. A Kendrick shutout, a Charlie shutout. Definitely an Ariana shutout, who was not nominated in any of the major categories, a duo shutout who was not nominated at all. For good reason. Yeah, I'm just pointing it up. Yeah, no, on a relative, it's not because their music

sucked at all. It's just on a relative, this is what made 2024 so fun is there was great stuff. And on a relative basis, and go back and listen to the episodes that we did, where we got into detail about our feelings about this, but we thought that the duo stuff sounded great, and there just wasn't those moments that put it over the top. It wasn't that huge hit. They were both a little slight. Yeah. And I felt that. There was a world in which we were coming on here talking about a bunch of like, we were talking about more Benson Boone nominations and stuff like that. And I would have been a little bit like, you know what? Some of those Ariana Grande songs, they might not have been quite as big as hits off earlier records in her career, but they were

really good. They were really interesting. They were really well produced. I can't make that argument with my chest about these nominations. Like, it's, yes, there are a couple, couple ones. that come out of left field. But a lot of this makes sense. And also, you know, if you're saying that Beyonce is not really campaigning, like, Ariana is not campaigning for anything that doesn't have to do with Wicked right now. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And that's what this is a reflection of.

And that's how it should be. These- And Dua is recording a remix of these walls with some French guy. Like, she's not doing it either. These are the songs, and these are the artists, and these are the albums that made impact in an incredibly prolific and fun 2024. And I am reminded of how it hasn't just been pop girl spring or summer.

It's really been pop girl two years because last year... The year of the pop girl, yeah. Yeah, last year we had seven of eight nominees. This year we have six of eight, but really the ones who are in contention are all female. And so this is going to be a super fun thing to watch. it is never fair. The reason that I, if I'm betting,

I guess Kendrick doesn't make the cut is because historically the Grammys have not rewarded hip-hop. Although they have rewarded him. Right. So we'll see. I think from a cultural impact standpoint, not like us really matters.

It's been in a lot of cases, it's been in a lot of situations. It's been used all over the place. So it will be the one that is hardest to cut. And I do think at the end of the day, Sabrina's going to get one of these big three. I think Beyonce is going to get album. And so that really means who's going to get slighted?

Is it going to be Billy Eilish or is it going to be Kendrick? And I think in both cases, that's going to be a little bit of a shame because both of the works are excellent. I continue to be very interested in how a song that directed, that directly accuses a very major figure in our culture of being a pedophile is going to be like very broadly showcased at the Grammys and at the Super Bowl and everyone's just going to be like, yeah, yeah, okay, cool. We're not going to, we're not going to look into that. We're flabbergasting to me. But a really, a really good song and a culturally important song and a song that, again, if you want to reflect,

kind of the best and the most interesting of this year, it absolutely belongs. Couple last thoughts. Any thoughts on the fact that Jack Antonoff was not nominated for producer, even though he worked on two albums that are in the album of the year category? Yeah, I think he worked on them, but he didn't do it exclusively. And I think Dan Nigro being in here is really interesting to me. And I think he's got a very good shot.

given the Olivia and Chapel work in particular. I think it's excellent. He was with Chapel. You think he's completely deserving. Yeah. Completely deserving. I just was, it's just interesting. Because obviously, Jackie Antonoff has been really rewarded by the Grammys,

both in the actual production category and for stuff that he's worked on. Some stuff that he's worked on is absolutely here. but there's a little bit of don't overstay your welcome in some of these nominations. Like the Taylor stuff is a hat tip, but I don't think she's going to win these categories. I think she might win some of the subcategories, one or two.

And Jack, having won it, I think they're ready to showcase some others. Yeah, that's fine. It's just how it rolls. And nobody's feelings are hurt, at least of all his at this moment. This is really apropos of nothing, But I just need to say that I am personally shocked

that Vampire Weekend did not get a single nomination. Why? They didn't get an alternative nomination. I thought that album was like a sleeper album of the year contender, and it got blanked. These people love Vampire Weekend. What, like, I'm not, this is not me being like, what a miscarriage of justice. This is just me being like, I'm deeply surprised by this.

Yeah. You know, look, did you want them in Rock? Where did you want them? But couldn't they have gotten alternative? Sure. Instead of, what, Cage the Elephant or? Yeah, I don't. Clero.

Clero, I mean, you know, we don't know. We do not come for Clero on this podcast. There will be no Clero shade on every single album. I mean, I think Clero might win that. Yeah. It's just a surprising result to me. By the way, Ariana, to be clear, Ariana has plenty of nominations. She's got dance pop recordings. She's got the pop recordings. Yes.

She's got pop vocal album. She'll go against Billy Chapel, Sabrina, and Taylor there. So there was plenty of stuff that she got. It just didn't rise up to the level of the big three. And I think that's actually the right thing. Now, I mean, I guess I think if we're trying to come up with the people who might be looking at the, the New Blue Sun nomination and being like, come the fuck on people. I would put Ariana Grande on that list, but like, it's fine. Well. All right.

Any last thoughts? It's going to be a very interesting. It's going to be a very interesting award ceremony. There, I do think in a lot of ways, a significant chunk of the artist community is going to look at this very closely. And I think if Beyonce does not get album of the year, there's going to be. more and more Zach Bryans of the world. I just mean not submitting their music,

as opposed to any of the drama that's going on this week. And there will be a real questioning of it as an institution. Whether that's right or not, I think, is actually a fair debate. Whether Beyonce should get Cowboy Carter because it's a really fascinating reflection of American society in 2024, more so now than ever, this week after election week, should she get it because of the body of work

or the album in and of itself or to maintain the integrity of the institution? All of this politic, all wrapped up into one is coming to a head this year in 2024. And I think that is the story. And so her getting it or not is going to be a fascinating thing for us to watch. Yeah.

The flip side of that is that because we are seeing pop artists and women in pop really reflected. And those are artists who I think traditionally do care the most, at least in recent history about the Grammys. I think there's some people who really feel that way. And I think the result has a big potential to nudge that in one direction or the other. But you also are seeing a ton of space in this for people like Taylor, like the sort of Taylor disciples.

next generation who do care about the Grammys and do invest in the Grammys. So I think it cuts both ways, but I think that's why the result could end up being kind of a deciding factor in which way the winds blow as far as that goes. But we'll have a lot of time to find out. Let's see. All right. Thank you, Nathan. This has been every single album.

As always, I'm Nora Pryanti. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kai McMullen for producing this episode. And we'll talk to you next week.