It's Pop Girl Spring! | Every Single Album
00:00Have you ever wondered about the meaning behind your favorite song lyric or why certain melodies make your skin tingle?I'm Cole Kushner and these are the kinds of questions I try to answer on Dissect,a podcast that dives deep into one album per season examining the music, lyrics, and meaning of one song per episode.I've dissected full albums by Kendrick Lamar, Radiohead, Tyro the Creator, Beyonce, Kanye, and more.Our latest season just launched all about MF Doom's Mad Villany.Listen to Dissect wherever you get your podcast because great art deserves more than a swipe.Oh, and welcome back to every single album.I'm Nora Princiotti, and I am joined, as always, but for the first time in a good long time, by Nathan Hubbard.
00:52Nathan, how are you?Hello, how are you doing?Pop Girl Spring!Yes, it's here.It is here.It has brought us back together.We are so excited.There are just so many great albums this spring.
01:06Of course, we were going to come back to do a whole bunch of stuff around.tortured poets department.Well, who knows?They better be great.We don't know if they're great.They're coming.They're great artists.I mean, some of them are here, but the anticipation is great.
01:18My expectations are great.We will be the judge of that, but there will be a lot to discuss.Of course, we are coming up on Cowboy Carter being released by Beyonce.We've already had Casey Musgraves' album.We've had Ariana Grande.We're going to have Maggie Rogers.We're going to have Taylor.We're going to have Duelipa.
01:37And the thing that I wanted to ask you, Nathan, just as we today set the table a little bit for what we're going to try to accomplish here over the next month plus and just talk about the ecosystem that these releases are going to come out and define and enter into, as well as do some Taylor Talk, because of course we're going to do that, is just how are you feeling right now?Is there anything that you're particularly, you know, having those anticipatory stomach butterflies aboutwhat does it feel like to you to be going into the spring where there's just so much music coming outand particularly so many albums coming out? Does it feel like a big moment for the album as a concept?It feels like a hard moment for artists who are trying to break through the noise.and this has been a consistent theme nowin the industry for the last year.We've got the culmination of a lot of things happening at once.
02:42There's the universal boycott of TikTok.There's the U.S. Congress potentially boycotting slash banning TikTok.And TikTok has been a massive discovery toolfor the music industry for the last few years.And on top of that, just the shift away from radio listeningand the general amount of content that comes outjust creates a whole lot of noisethat it's really difficult to pierce through.
03:10And I think Beyonce's last album struggled a little bit with that.Drake's last album struggled a little bit with that.The Justin Timberlake record struck.Well, maybe that was him more than the...But there is a whole lot of noise that's out there.The Justin Timberlake album struggled.I think we can just leave it at that.And it's harder than ever to break through.
03:31And then when you factor in all of the top of the tier artists that are putting out new music this spring, it's going to be fascinating to see just in three weeks you've got Beyonce, Maggie Taylor. That is a lot. You got Billy Elish who at the Grammys and through the Oscar process was telling everyone, just wait, I got to get Ariana's music out. We got to get other people's music out before mine comes. And I do think hers is going to be one of the surprise things that you and I maybeget a chance to talk about.There's just so much to pierce through.So that to me...Can I tell you something?Can I drop a new take on you?Fine.So I loved Billy's Oscars' performance.
04:13I love, like, live Billy is like just one of the greatest things we have.Oh, boy.I love Billy's Oscars performance so much.However, I've been on record as saying that the Duolipa song from Barbie got robbed.I'm going to reframe the take, but probably not in the way that you want me to.Where is I'm just Ken?Oscar. I mean, come on. Where is the Oscar for I'm just Ken? No. You can't undo what you've done,which is you whiffed that the Billy's song is terrific and that she probably deserved. It's just
04:46that the duly was on whatever. It's fine. Yes. It's just more fun. You're going to have tons of time to talkthrough duo. But I do think fascinating moment in music industry times. You've got artists who now are,instead of going on tour to support their albums,they're putting out albums to support the tourbecause that's where they make their money.So that's in large partwhy you're seeing a lot of shift of musicfrom traditionally the fourth quarter
05:12into earlier parts of the yearbecause everybody wants to now be the song of the summer,not necessarily the song for the holidays.The other theory that makes sense to meis just like no one wants to put their album outaround the election.And the closer we get to that,it's just like that seems so negative
05:28and such a fraught time period that no one wants to be doing their late night appearancesor get in the comments sections with their fans when everything just feels like a cesspool,which I know is sort of depressing, but I do think that that's kind of a subtle factor,is that this spring feels like an opportunity to be a little bit lighthearted and funand try to define the song of the summer.And then when everybody looks at the fall, people just think about negativity.and that's a less appealing time to put your stuff outand try to get people to engage with it.
06:01I'm interested in the idea that,I mean,this is like when your perspective as someone who is actively working in this industryis funny and is different from minebecause I think that's where some of the anxiety abouthow do you get someone to have a moment?How do you get an album to break through and music to really get peopleto allow?
06:25latch on to it in such a saturated environment,and it's so hard for artists to do that these daysif you're not Taylor Swift or, to some extent,Beyonce, although, as you said,originally when Renaissance dropped,it struggled a little bit.And I do think that we've seen her do a little bit more.It's not like she's going on shows
06:43and, you know,releasing tons of visuals in the lead-up to Cowboy Carter,but she's doing a little bit more.For sure she is.I mean, I think Jay-Z's speech at the Grammys,which was a stern and, I think, pretty spot-on smack at the Academywas the start of the Beyonce album of the year campaign.But the album of the year campaign is different from have the music when it comes out.
07:16And I do think, I think that Cowboy Carter is going to really popjust because I think the Renaissance tour was so excitingand was just such a huge set.like-guisty moment, that it's going to carry that energy into people being really, reallyexcited to hear this album and really digging it. And the singles already are hitting and alreadyare sort of having proof of concept to that. When Renaissance initially came out, the streamingnumbers weren't huge. And it wasn't until the tour when it felt like that album really, really,really caught on. So I don't know if that may be that environment just doesn't exist anymore,
07:53because the tour has already happened,but I've found it interesting to see,you know, she posts on Instagramevery few daysand is narrativeizingthe release of the album,maybe referencing the daddy lessons performanceat the CMAs with the chicks
08:11as sort of this moment of genesisof,oh, I wanted to do this country albumbecause it's coming out of the storyof not feeling welcomed by that environment.I just, it feels,and I don't know if this is revisionist history,but it feels like she's doing more
08:28to get people pumped up about itthan originally happened for Renaissance,and it seems like it's working.I think you're right,but I do think it startedit started with that speechto the Recording Academy for me.I mean, this...
08:44I don't think she gave permission for that.I don't think she did either,but I think this is all intentional.I mean, I'm doing this podcastfrom Nashville right now. And what I can tell you isthe edict fromon high at Beyonce'srecord label Sony is
09:00there is nothing more important right now than thisBeyonce album. So if you've gotNashville-based artistswho you would ordinarily be talkingto Spotify and Apple aboutto try to get them into playlistsor talking to country radioor any of the traditional promotional outlets,
09:17fuck all that.Beyonce is number one and it's the most importantthing we have. Andas you think back almost to that performance at Coachella,which I still think to this day might bethe greatest live performance of all time.It's certainly in the top fivein terms of its cultural artistic statement,
09:40just sheer boldness.That was the start of where we really started to understandthat this was a woman who was making a statementartistically about the role of black music,black women in all parts of, yes, American culture, in some ways global culture, but certainly inmusic. And that's what it feels like Renaissance and now Cowboy Carter are about. And also maybeunreleased third album, right? I mean, we've heard rumors for so, so long that this is part ofa trilogy. For sure. But if you think about that Jay-Z speech where he's talking to a largely
10:20white electoratethat has historicallyin the Beyoncethe history of Beyonce's albumsawarded white artistsalbum of the year over aworthy lemonade for example thatAdele won that year. Harry
10:35Stiles won over Renaissance.So itfeels likethis is the time.She's using a mediumthat is more accessibleto some parts ofthat recording academy electorate that probably have not been able to connect with the house dance
10:55roots that, uh, that she sort of told stories through on Renaissance. I agree. But I think, I think thatacross the board, the feeling is if you can't understand the majesty of this artist through thisparticular medium that's coming out on Cowboy Carter, you're never going to get it. And so all gunsare pointed and firing to try to just give this.artist her do. And it's going to be fascinating to see how this breaks through with all of thepolitics and racism and, you know, historical sort of, you know, aversion to promoting femaleartists, much less artists of color in Nashville that have existed alongside just the generalinsular nature of the industry, which gives birth to its own, which supports its own,
11:49but doesn't generally take in artists from the outside, regardless of where they come.Also, her own sort of, you know, I mean, she said in one of the Instagram captions, right,like, this isn't a country album, this is Beyonce album.Right.And so I don't know that, like, the play that she's making is wrap me up and pull me into your fold, right?She's just doing whatever she wants to do.That's not about winning, it's not about winning, just winning acceptance.for the sake of winning acceptance,
12:20there are some things of, you know,you wanted to hit,you wanted to have this massive scale,you want people to appreciate it,and there are some parts of thatthat go hand in handwith our corners of this industrygatekeeping.
12:31Are there double standards?But her, I mean,it does not seem like her purpose is,even though the originsmight have a little bit,something to do with it,that her purpose is like,let's get the country music folks to like me.
12:44Like, she's Beyonce.No, no, no.This is not about the industry.but I do think it's about a portion of the music listening fan basethat for whatever reasonhas not fully embraced her as an artist.And to your point, she is doing the work around this album.I bet today that the two singles that we've already heard
13:06have been heard by more people than any of the stuff from her last album.And by more people who are not regular listeners of Beyonce.It has broken through in waysthat the last album did not.And so I think...Yeah, which was so...I guess I'm sort of exercisingsome of my own, like,
13:24my own frustrationsand my own questionsand just momentswhen I feel out of step.Because, like, Cuffet did,like, did get there eventually.Yes.But I love...
13:43Like, Renaissance was really an albumthat worked for me.And I loved that album musically.And I get that there are some...It's not like I'm, like,deeply steeped in the historyof house music and black discoand there's some of that stuff
13:57that I have to do my ownyou know, studying up on too,certainly.It's hard for me to buythat that was likesuch an inaccessible album for people.It was like awesome dance music.So it just, it remains odd to me.
14:14And I guess the prime exampleof just what this environment is likeand how hard without a tourwithout or until there's a tourand without a huge amount of promotion,narrative building,visual elements,it can be to get people to latch on
14:33just to the musicthat that seemed to happen with Renaissancejust because when I heard that album,I heard like,these are bangers.Who doesn't want to listen to this music?Like, that's weird.And I think a lot of people
14:47were left feeling that waywho on the industry side of thingswere around that project.They just didn't totally get why it didn't break through.Well, now we have the movie where she gave uswhat we had actually wanted from Taylor,which was a little more behind the scenes footageand controlled access to Beyonce,
15:06but some really interesting profiling of herat this moment in time.Then we had a Grammys where seven of the eight nomineesfor album of the year were female artists.And now we have this springthat's being layered again by pop girls who are all going to be in some capacity in the conversationfor an album of the year nomination. But I do think that with the work that's being put in in thismoment, and it's going to be April 1st this week, so we're still early. But in this moment,
15:42I think Beyonce's in pole position, and I think it's with a purpose, yes, by the industry people.But I think it matters to her. And I think that was reflected in what,what Jay said at the Grammys.We're talking a lot about Beyonce because that's coming up in just a few days and we're really excitedabout it.But I do, I want to spend another moment just on the broader landscape of all of these releases coming.I mean, one thing that I have wound up thinking about is, and you know, we do a podcastcalled every single album, right?
16:15it does feel like the album is relevant to these artists and to this moment in a way thatI wouldn't necessarily have anticipated.I mean, there was a moment a couple years ago where it sort of felt like Taylor Swiftwas the last remaining artist who gave a shit about like, this is my album.I'm releasing an album.Here it is a story.And now to greater and lesser extent, but to some extent in each case, it feels likethese artists are putting these out
16:48in ways where they want you to hear a specific story.I mean, I remember Ariana Grande a couple albums cycles agostarting to talk about how she wanted to release music like rapperand she wanted to just like drop music and dribs and drabswhen she felt like it and when she felt like she had something to say.She has not done that.And I'm not like, that's no skin off, you know, that's fine by me.I actually kind of prefer it.
17:11I think it's, I'm interested in what these people have to say.when they take a year or two and stop and decide what story they want to tell,I'm just sort of fascinated by the fact that that's how everyone continues to be doing itbecause it wasn't that long ago where it felt like that was becoming very out of vogue.And the thing that, you know, I'll just lob this.I'll lob my half-baked theories at you is like, no one quite knows what to do.do, like no one knows how to how to break through in this environment, plus the fact that the twobiggest stars that we have, Beyonce and Taylor, are both people who, you know, have been putting
18:03out albums for at least or close to 20 years at this point. And so I wonder if that allcontributes to like a little bit of a retro, like a little bit of a retro thing where it's just like,well, I know how to make a statement, I know how to tell a story, and maybe people will grab thenarrative of it. And if I do it that way, I don't know. Maybe that resonates with you. Maybe it doesn't.I'm just like, why is everybody doing elbows? Can I give you my cynical industry take on it?Yes, of course. That's what I want. My cynical industry take is twofold. One isyou get paid per stream. And so the more that you can put out an album versus a single songand get more streams, right? If somebody streams five songs, you get paid in a way that you
18:56don't if it's just one. So putting out a 15-song album gives you more shots on goal for streaming.It's why we're seeing, just as Olivia did, deluxe editions and the sort of extrafive songs that get, that's all geared to try to get you to revisit, not just the music thatOlivia just put out, and we should talk about it in a minute, because it's very interesting,but to then go back and revisit the record and try to boost a song from that into a TikTokthat goes viral that then drives a ton of streaming. So there's that component for sure,and that's easier to do with more songs and more shots on goal. But the really big reason,is sitting right in front of us.
19:43And Taylor is the one who has sort of brought the vinyl industry to its knees.But so much money is being made from selling vinyl.And it's why Taylor puts four different versions out with individual songs on them.It counts towards all of the charting and first week album sales and records,meaning historical records that we know that Taylor and these other artists care about.that's going to get the attention of the person who is safeguarding the stream,or the, yeah, the streaming playlist.So it's a combination of wanting to game the algorithms, right?
20:21And you saw even Beyonce's Texas Hold'em.What's a real live boogie and a real live hold down?Don't be a bitch, come take it to the flow now.Has a cappella version.This ain't Texas.Ain't no hold them.So lay our cards down, down.down, down.
20:43And just an instrumental version.And all of those get counted as a stream for the song.So they're all just sort of ways to throw the music digitally into the flux capacitorthat ends up, you know, algorithmically pushing songs into playlists and putting them in front of people.It's all geared towards helping a fan discover it, which was exactly the problem that happened on Renaissance.All right.That makes sense.I do think there's something in addition to all of that to,
21:21so you mentioned that Taylor has really influenced a lot of artists to emphasize vinyl and to try to make money that way.I think also just her imprint is such that people copy her in all sorts of ways, right?I agree.And one of them, to me, is the impulse toward self-narrativeization.Am I speaking in English words?Maybe, maybe not.But toward
21:53telling a very specificstory inalbum cycles,which could be otherwise known aseras,feels so essentialto getting peopleto give a crap,
22:15which is hard these days.And when you do have, you know,each album ends up being a statement, right?It's about something.It tells a story.It tells a story more so than,here's some songs I made that I'm going to put out.I think they sound really cool, right?
22:36We're getting Beyonce,first of all, merging historical ideaswith personal story.stories and personal narrativesand going through this sort ofmusical reclamation projectin different genres. And that's a verypowerful narrative. That's a very powerful
22:54story to tell. Taylor,right now,it feels like the story of this albumisJoe wasn't a good boyfriend.Yeah. And we'll seeif that ends up being true or not. But like right nowthat's a very palpable idea and something
23:10that is engagingwhen we look at, you know, track listings and dissect the titles and...All of the chatter is about it.So long London as track five, like that feels like the story of that album.I think a question we're going to end up asking ourselves for a lot of these is, you know,what story is...Like, Doolipa is a funny example here.Like, what story is Dua telling us?
23:38From my perspective right now, the story that Duelipa is telling about Duelipa is thatDuelipa likes to go on vacation.And that to me is incredibly, like, that's great.I'm really the target audience for that.And I love Duelipa.But I'm just like, are we going to go anywhere else?I guess bad metaphor, because we're going to a lot of places.She may be the, she may, her lane might be taking you out of the seriousness and deep self-reflection that you're going to get.
24:10I mean, even on this Ariana album that we're going to get.we're going to talk about where there's some real stuff in that record, even though it's a MaxMartin thing. I mean, she, you know, and that record is big enough, and it's done a lot to turnthe narrative of her personal life that I think a lot of people thought was going to work againsther. She put out music that seems to have elevated above that narrative. So between that, the Maggierecord, she wrote the whole dang thing in five days with one other person in the room. So you're going tohear a whole lot from that around,that feels something cohesive,
24:47you're right.By the time we get to do it,it might be like a welcome respitefrom all the storytelling.No, I would,like, I truly am,I am so here for it.I just watch her,
24:59and I love to watch her do anything.I love to watch her on talk shows.I love to watch,like when she got drunk with Seth Myers,it was great.Fantastic.I love Dulepa.I love Duelipa,
25:09just like being Duelipa in public.It is such a,funny, and you're right, maybe this is how it functions. It's such a funny antidote or, you know,just opposite test case to what feels like the core, one of the core features of just being aworking pop star right now, which is just building your own narrative in a way that's essential towhat you're trying to sell, what you're trying to get people to latch on to, where it feels,like, she's just viving. She's just hot and goes to dinner and goes to France.I'm excited to dive into her with you because she's doing some of these things outside of her music, in fact.
25:52She's expressing herself.Yes, her book club, for sure.And the way that she thinks about building that out.So there's certainly more to it there.But we'll dive in on that front.I mean, I'm still stuck on what you said before about so long London and realizing that we're going to see Travis Kelsen.see in the VIP tent in Amsterdamlike bopping his head
26:16or in Paris bopping his head toso long London, aren't we?We're going to see him absorbingand vibing, speaking ofvibing, to a bunch of songs aboutthe ex-boyfriend. Do you thinkhe'll know?I think he'll
26:32probably know. Maybe that's what they were talking aboutin the Bahamas on the beachwith his hand just likecompletely on her buttlying in the sand wasthe discussion of the track listings and how vibey he can be when he's visible to people'scameras. I mean, yeah, I think we'll see him do that. I think we're going to be seeing him do thatfor like the next 18 calendar years. It feels like there's all of a sudden rumors that
27:00there are going to be new shows in Turkey in 2025. Like, the Aerosaur is going to be goingon for a decade. Maybe it's just a regenerative thing. Maybe it's just a regenerative thing. Maybeshe just keeps putting out albums and so many new eras happen that she's got to do it.I mean, how do you think...Set the over under right now.When does the eras tour over?I think the turkey conversation seems a little nuts, but I think it's over in early 2025.You don't, so you don't, you don't believe it.
27:34I don't know what to...No.I mean, give the woman a break.Does it look like they're having a good time together?Yes, but it's not...Nathan, I don't think that she's adding showslike under duress.I think she's doing this.
27:52Yeah.Well, let's see what happens.You know, we thought...We speculated around the releasesof folklore and Evermore.There was like a nesting thingthat we thought might be happening in that moment.Turns out, torture poets is going to tell us
28:09how freaking wrong we were.but it felt like she was just almost in a panic getting out creative stuffbecause you felt like maybe she's going to get to a place in her lifewhere she doesn't want to do this all the time.It doesn't mean that she's not going to work,but that she's going to work differently.And I suspect that after two years out on the road,even though jet lag is a choice, as she reminded us, at the Super Bowl.
28:40Okay, Taylor.Going back and forth and not being grounded is going to feel weird, especially if this is a relationship where for all the reasons that we've talked about, it's about their closeness to their family and their sort of inner circle of friends.And it's difficult to be together when you're out on the road, especially if your spouse has another job that they have to be in a physical location to do.You can't zoom in playing tight in for the chiefs.although I guess there have been a few who've tried. You can probably tell me more than that. But I think that there's going to be an end to this tour. I think that the change in her personal life over the last six months is inevitably going to have an impact on how she thinks about gallivanting around the world. Not to mention that there's still a movie that's supposed to be written, Nora. And if this album really was written in the time period that it has been hinted at,She's actually had a lot of time since this thing has been in the bag to make more stuff.I mean, she's not, I'm still waiting for the song called Big Yeti.Can I tell you a football thing that you just made me think of because I was just at an NFL event?
29:56I'm moving on from Big Yetty.It's fine.You know that song's coming.I was just at the NFL annual meetings in Orlando.And I cannot tell you, I'm not going to put anybody.in particular on blast here.But I cannot tell you how manylike league and team people
30:15I had conversations with where they were likewe gotta, who are the single pop stars?Like can they date someone on our team?Oh, come on.What's Tate McCray up to?Like, what she?They're all like,she's more of a hockey girl.
30:33Yeah, I was like, you're not getting Tate McCray off the ice.Like, sorry, it's just not happening.But there was a realthere was a real, if we can get an A-list pop star dating someone on our football team,it'll be good for business. And I was just like, guys, you got to understand. No one is Taylor Swift,but Taylor Swift. But that's how the NFL runs, right? They hire the entire coaching tree of the guywho had one successful year, regardless of whether or not any of those people are good. They're just like,okay, it's a copycat league, Nora. So they're like, do a, drop this weird British actor. Stop doing the British
31:08actor face. Look at Taylor. She's through it. You want to get through yours quickly. Come and date,you know, the linemen for the Giants. She could probably play linemen for the Giants at this point.What? They need help. Oh. I mean, she would not be the worst offensive linemen on the Giants.Okay, there we go. We got there. We got there. But I'm speaking of British actors. Let's talkabout the new Olivia Rodriguez song.Oh, the songs or the song?Because I think...Both.
31:45Both.There are five songs, but there is clearly the song from those five songs.Well, so we got the deluxe edition of Guts, which is called Guts Spilled, which is very fun.And it has the bonus tracks that were on the vinyl editions.Obsessed.Girl, I've always been scared to my guitar, Stranger.Which you could hear when the songs came out, but if you didn't have the vinyl, it was...You had to search around and stuff.
32:12So those are out on streaming, re-listening to them.Because I had in, I mean, when it came out, I think I had to, you know, I was searching on TikTokand finding weird copies because I didn't have the vinyl.And I really, I did, I remembered really liking obsessed, but I, I hadn't listened to themin a while.And I will say that I was surprised how sort of sticky they felt to me, particularly obsessed.And a little bit girl I've always beenWhen I put them back on
32:58When this came outI just like oh these areThese areIt's not that I didn't like themI just wentOh yeah those are bonus tracksAnd I had a little bit more of a reactionParticularly with Obsessed of just going like
33:11This is still pretty solidYeahI think there's strong songsI understand why they were leftoff because you can find ballads that are betterlike the grudgeall the ballads that you did not give mecrap. Yeah, I don't know that I agree with that
33:27but I understand why they were left off as likea flex of look what I left on my album.Lyrically scared of my guitar I thought was great.I make excuses, my friendsknow the truth is I'm not as all rightas I claim.But of the deluxe edition,there is this song so American
33:49and it is fucking great.Yes.Okay.So we have a new song.And I mean,it seems to be the story ofOlivia perhapstaking over some
34:13space that has been left unoccupiedas the premier LondonStan inthe pop star canon.I'm fine with it.If this is where she's going,let's let her keep going.Well, I mean,
34:30just so she's datingLewis Partridge,who's a British actorbecause they're all British actors.And there's lyrics in the songabout driving on the other side of the road,and he says,I'm so American.
34:45And she,this is kind of her London boy.Yeah.And I,and I,and I,I'm here for it, except can I be out?The song is way better than London Boy.
35:02I like London Boy, but I really like the song.Yeah.It's really great.I just hope.There's something about Olivia, like, watching night in, night out, the videos of her on stage.I mean, we're just still early into this tour.She's doing interesting things out there.She's making political statements with some of the things that are getting passed out at the show.
35:28got moms a little bit, I think, unfairly complaining that they didn't realize that this is nota show for 12-year-old girls. Yes, it's not the Wiggles. It's not bluey. It's not fucking BluesClues. It's Olivia Rodriguez. Olivia Rodrigo, she's not the Wiggles. Yeah, that's the next time we'llput that on the poster, Mom. Sorry. But that actually would be a great poster. That's our nextt-shirt. Yeah. The show is really strong. It feels like she's evolving as a performer in front of us andlearning how to do it. You forget because she is so polished that she's still early in doing this.She hadn't been out playing a lot of arena shows before. These are the biggest venues. They didunderplay her last time around. So she's still sort of grinding it out. But we're watching her
36:21blossom as an artist. And I almost feel like, in some ways, Taylor taking the oxygen out of the roomfor the last six to nine months, yet maybe didn't totally help the cause of her album getting allof the attention that driver's license got. But it's given her a little bit of air cover to makethose tweaks around the edges and continue to evolve as an artist. I listen to So American and say,wow, she is her own person.She's writing, she and Dan are writing stuff that really matters.It's still a partnership that I want to hear more of.Yeah, I don't mean to make the Taylor comparison in a way that's fraught because some of that is fraught.
37:04It just really cracked me up to hear her do the, I'm so charmed by all of the Britishtendencies of my young Brit actor boyfriend.This has been covered before, in fairness, yes.No, but not the way that she does it.I am so sold on Olivia having her own signature and her own ideas.That to me is so crystal clear.I just, I was like, L.O.L.She, too, will be let down by a young British actor.
37:40I know.It is like a rite of passage.Yeah, I mean, look, he doesn't have a lot of credits either,but he's also 20 years old.Yeah, but in fairness,at least he's showing up at the show all the time.So there's that.Shots fired.
37:55That's what that was.Travis is teaching them all how to do it.We have so much to talk about, Nora.I can't wait to go through each of these albums with you.We haven't really been able to catch up on all of this.Do you have any more trailer in the Bahamas thoughts?Trailer in the Bahamas?Yeah.
38:17Like trailer, Taylor and Travis in the Bahamas.Oh, you're calling it trailer.Sorry.No, I mean, there was a lot of people who had huge reactions to what at least in print looked like normal male, female relationship interactions.Lots of talk about the bodies, lots of talk about the hand on the butt.Yeah, it's fun.lots of people falling forfive-year-old videos of a couple
38:50that doesn't really look like them falling off the swing.I don't know.It's great.If that's Travis Kelsey,the chiefs have problems.Yeah.Yeah, Travis has problems if that's Travis Kelsey.I'm happy to see her
39:05being able to be out and aboutand do normal things.It's nice that she's going to Nobu Malibuwith her boyfriend.It's nice that he's taking her to a little estateon Harbor Island in the Bahamas.A little estate at six bedrooms.That she's comfortable going out.
39:23And there's just this like normalization of this relationshipthat I think, to be honest,is good for everybody.Like, there was so much craziness about her.It was only the Cape Middleton stuffthat seemed like it united the internet.After that, I'm just,I think the more people see it
39:42and get accustomed to it,the less people will freakout like they're seeing a fucking unicorn every time Travis and Taylor come through. The thing for me rightnow is I hope that they're getting all the vacationing out of the way because I want them on SaturdayNight Live the week of April 19th. I want him and her as co-hosts and her as a musical guest.And I know they traditionally take a break then, but there has not been an announcement and it feels likeit's time. I would love that. I would love that. You're right to, I hope they're getting enough vacationbecause they didn't. The trip looked very fun, but it wasn't very long. They were only there for a few days.
40:21They don't have time for this shit. I mean, she's got to get ready to launch an album. She's probably writing her monologue for Saturday Live right now.They got to talk to Dula Lipa. We're going to get Duelima talking to Taylor and Travis. Duet's going to get them on like a on a four-week gallivant through the south of France. She'll never be seen her heard from again.Taylor's just going to be like drinking spritses by the pool.They're about to have a great European vacation together. Remember, Taylor's only going to be working two or three nights a week.And the rest of the time, they're going to have some time to go explore Europe. You are going to see, it's going to be like flat Stanley except big ass Travis. There are going to be so many pictures of that dude in front of every fucking landmark across Europe. Here's Travis in front of.of the Louvre.Here's Travis in front ofAnne Frank's house.
41:19Ha, ha, he can't even fit in there.He's too big.Here's Travis in BuckinghamPalace.Like, there's going to, he's going to, it'sflat Stanley.He's going to take, like,take the picture of the changing of the guards,
41:30or he'll do the thing with the Louvrewhere you make your finger look like it's on top of the pyramid.And she will put that fuck-ass yellow filteron every single one of them and post it to Instagram.I'm losing it.I feel so like there was so many photos of them on their trip and I feel bad becausewell I do think I think you're right that their strategy is a little bit like flood the zonepeople will get over it eventually I'm just simply not sure they will and it is so invasive
42:04and you can tell sometimes like how long lens the cameras are because you can see when it getsblurry. And it's like, that's a dude sitting in a bush, like a mile and a half away from them.And that's just like, we're just, we're round the bend. At the same time, I am part of the problembecause there's nothing I want to do more than like click through the website for the villathey were staying in and express to myself.like in a dark room by myself,my opinions about the upholstery.Like, that's, that is exactly how I want to spend my time.
42:51But I also feel bad that it's incredibly invasiveand she should just be able to have a fun time with her boyfriend.So, that's my truth.Yeah.And here's the thing.They're never going to be able to be out of the spotlight.It just comes with the territory.On the other hand,
43:07the photos that we're getting,seemed to be from fairly short snippets in time, right?Like the beach photos were just a little bit.It's not like they caught them at the restaurant and driving in and at the airport and in theit's almost like they got to deal with it for a bit and then they can retreat and go,I hope.The thing that freaks me out is, especially with all this royal news, is you just remember,like, it drove Diana bonkers.
43:36And I'm not sure that there's been a bigger thing.I watched the Beckham documentary the other day,and there's just gut-wrenching scene of their son in the back having a panic attackas people are pounding on the windows as Posh and Bex are driving away.And Taylor's getting that times a million.Now, there's no kids involved yet,assuming Travis, when he talked about growing an NFL or NBA player in a laband how he couldn't wait to make one, it wasn't making a weird reference.
44:06But, you know, there's no kids involved.But they're at that point.I mean, listen, they're 34, almost 35 years old.They're thinking about it and talking about it.And it's, if they're going to go forward and do that, like it's, who knows?Who knows?They are.They are.
44:22Who are you talking about?Who knows?They definitely are.We're there.And it's great.And they'll get through the summer and we'll see what happens.But my point is, I just hope that in this, in this flooding of the zone, that there canbe a tiny little bit of air that gets let out of the balloon.
44:41I really think they should let Duleepa plan a vacation for them.I also would like to say that if Dula Lippa would like to plan a vacation for me,I will go on it.Pop Girl Summer.I'm really, I'm just like,I'm really, really here for her particular vibe right now.My only question is just like, I'm not sure it's a vibe that sells a lot of albums.but it is a great vibe nonetheless.
45:10We'll see.It's radical optimism.That's what it is.Yeah.The radical optimism of believing that millions and millions and millions of peoplewant to watch you recommend tomato-scented candles.It's, listen, it worked for Gwyneth Paltrow.Why can't it work for Dua?
45:31That's a great question.There's a beacon on the hill.It's the Dua album.That seems so far.away because we have so much to coverbetween now and May.But we will get thereand we're just getting
45:44started.When we come back, the next episode that we'regoing to do is going to bewe will fully dive into Cowboy Carter.That release will be out. We'll havecategories. We'll do this in like a much morestructured format than we're doing right now.But it just felt like since we were coming
46:00back around, there wasso much scene setting to do and so muchtable setting thatplus I just wanted to talk, you know, just wanted to get together and gab.So I hope that's what we've done here.It's what we've done.Your perspective on Dua is going to sit with me all the way through Dua tonight.You've really sent me into a spin.
46:21I just love her so much.Well, my hope is that there are going to be a few surprises along the way,because two months in this music business is a very, very long time.And I think we're going to see a few surprise drops.Maybe even a pop boy.We'll see.Can I just, can I have a moment with our listeners to say that I don't know anything that you don't know?I don't know what Nathan knows.
46:47And when he speaks in code, I'm always like, well, something.Something is coming.So I don't know what you know and I don't know what you're hinting at.But we will cover it all whatever it is or isn't or shall be.And I'm excited about it.Can't wait.Hopefully you're not on vacation with Dua.Hopefully I am. I would, I mean, I'm sorry, but all right, that's enough. That's enough for me on this topic. All right. This has been every single album. I'm Nora Prynciatti. As always, he's Nathan Hubbard. So great to be back. We will next. Beyond the Speed next week, Breaking Down Cowboy Carter from Beyonce. Thank you, as always, to Kai McMullen for her fantastic production on this episode and to you for listening.
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