Every Single Album - Kacey Musgraves's 'Middle of Nowhere' and the State of Country Pop Girls

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Nora and Nathan talk about some of the pop music news that came out of this week's Met Gala (1:00) and Olivia Rodrigo's appearance on 'SNL' (8:20). Then they talk about the newest album from Kacey Musgraves, 'Middle of Nowhere,' and where she fits in amongst other female country artists like Megan Moroney and Ella Langley right now (13:25).Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, mid-sized business. We see your big ambitions, but how do you achieve the wins you want when your technology is holding you back? SAP Grow is built to grow with your business, no matter its size, with AI embedded at its core, working across every system, all ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow. AI Cloud, ERP for any size business.

Hello, and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Princiotti. And as always, I am joined. by my friend Nathan Hubbard to take us I was going to say to Nashville but I guess it's maybe more to Texas we're going to hang with the country gals

today. Ye fucking ha. Ye fucking ha. That is the name of the game today. There is a new album out from Casey Musgraves that's middle of nowhere that we're going to talk about. It's going to give us occasion to talk about some other artists in similar spaces

like Ella Langley, Megan Maroni, who have popped up in our DMs in conversations with some of you guys between us and Kaya, and we just haven't quite had the occasion. And so the occasion is now we're going to get to that conversation. However, first, Nathan, when last we spoke, you brought up to me that you really wanted a space to a pine on the Met Gala.

And I'm going to give you the floor for that. Well, I just said, so we've been banking a few episodes for when you are on your honeymoon, which is coming up, and we're going to have a little bit of a break for the first time in how many years, five years? Well, we've taken, like, Christmas off and stuff. Yeah, but, like, anyway, I'm going to potentially get super drunk at your wedding. you're going to go on a honeymoon and we're both going to need to recover from that situation and so we will not be making podcasts

in the back part of May but I just was saying this has been blown way out of proportion I really don't have much to say about the Met Gala I just thought if there was something to talk about that came out of the Met Gala that we ought to address it on the pod and in hindsight, like, my feed is full of Connor Story and not much else.

Connor Story sneaking behind the smoking curtain with Charlie XEX, Gracie Abrams and Jenny in the bathroom taking pictures. Connor Story wearing a blouse that I've been searching for a version of that's not see-through for several months. And then he just showed up to the Met Gallo wearing it. So that was cool. I've been working out a lot. So I feel like if I wore that thing, I'd be like Timo, Connor Story.

but he's the only one who can pull that off. I wonder what his gym playlist is. I'll tell you what. It's probably similar to mine. It's probably pretty good because he definitely, the arms were on display. He's making it work. I don't think there was much that came out of that.

I mean, I think to me there was a lot of discussion about protest and, oh, are they going to protest the Bezos Metgal and our artist going to stay away? But no, I mean, Sabrina showed up and all film-made dress, everybody, everybody showed up and it went off. And as, as Tina Fey once said, it's a giant jerk parade.

And if you had a million arms, you couldn't punch all the people in the face that you want to in that room. I loved Sabrina's dress. I thought that was really cool. It was awesome. I didn't love her shoes, but I also understand that she is working

with certain height limitations that, introduce needs for a platform that I myself don't typically run up against. So I won't hold it too much against her and I thought she looked great and it was very clever. I mean, what I will say is of late,

Sabrina Carpenter has done duets with Paul Simon, Chapel Rhone, Taylor Swift, Stevie Nix, Miss Piggy, Dolly Parton. Okay.

Madonna. In case you're wondering who the main pop girl under 30 is right now, like they are, she's been invited to do these things in many cases. Yeah.

No, I mean, it is like, find the person who doesn't like Sabrina Carpenter. You know, obviously I think there are people who say, she is my number one. I want to listen to no,

as much as I want to listen to Sabrina Carpenter and there are people who have other artists who resonate with them the most. But like it is really hard to, her negatives are sort of non-existent. It's very hard to have anything other than nice things to say about her.

It's part of her mystique, right? She's like Teflon. She just hovers above it with she just stands on smart, clever, horny corner and that for whatever reason allows her to just dodge every bit of

Well, because she can always answer with a sense of humor and I think that's such a powerful thing. It is. And then she also does the work. She tries really hard and that's, you know, I thought, I agree with you. It's like you're asking

celebrities to not show up to an event where there's a lot of free publicity and also there's a lot of relationships with fashion houses and designers and various things that they might be promoting or campaigning for where all of that can get a lot of free press

and like, but it's just sort of not going to happen. I did feel like a lot of people and you know, my girl Charlie XX who I usually say can do no wrong and I sort of stand by that. I did think she looked beautiful, but she falls into this category for me.

I think there were a lot of people who sort of knew that it wasn't cool to be there but wanted to go anyway because they wanted to say yes. They wanted to sit at the table. They wanted to get the press and therefore decided to wear a boring dress. to not really go all out for it,

but to go anyway to kind of try to straddle the fence that way. And that just is the worst of both worlds. And so I give someone like Sabrina credit for having a cheeky idea, interesting execution, giving you something to look at and be like, oh, what's going on here? There's a little bit more than meets the eye. There's a lot that meets the eye anyway.

And so I liked her look. I loved Beyonce, you know? It's just the woman knows how to wear clothes. All right, I think that's every single album at Gala Corner. Yeah, we're done. Other New York City events in the, not the first Monday in May, but the first, no, it was still April. Maybe it was, anyway, last weekend, it was just, it was, it's going to be May. Olivia Rodrigo on S&L.

Yeah. What'd you think? So I thought it was fun. You know, it's fun to see her. There was a vulture recap of the episode as a whole that I thought made a point that hit me a little bit watching it, which is just like she has a slightly different sense of humor and different presence than someone certainly like a Sabrina. I think this article also referenced Ariana Grande as a good counterpoint where like there are people. and there are people who come from that Disney pipeline where often those people are really good S&L hosts.

But where they can do very broad, sticky sketches. And I don't think Olivia, I don't think that's like the right mold for Olivia normally. But then they had her do something that's kind of like very small and intimate and weird, like the my room thing. And that I thought was the best thing that's, they had her in. I thought her musical performances were really strong. I thought the episode as a whole was like fine,

but I thought her musical performances were really strong. And then I thought there were a couple examples like that where they sort of found the right way to use her. What about you? The butthole cake was pretty funny. Who's on the shop line? Call her your own shop TV. What do you think of this cake?

I think it looked like a big old butter. I mean, I thought that falling down the stairs bit was interesting in the fact that they showed at the end a little bit about the way they did that, which I felt like was just a hat tip to that incredible stage crew that does all the work and the carpentry and everything. Yeah, I thought it was good.

It was fun. It was funny. I'm with you that she didn't seem like she was the most polished comedic actress of all time. But I thought the live performances were super solid. I'm with you. And she's just like, you know, we didn't. I don't know. The interesting thing about this cycle to me, again,

is the joke that she made in the monologue is she's not a teenager anymore, right? Yep. And so I'm really interested to get to know her as a human being better through these songs and to sort of understand, you know, where she is having...

It is always fascinating to watch these young stars as they become young adults, how the cement starts to harden and as they start to know a little bit more about who they are instead of the machine sort of pushing them into our arms at a very early stage that I think is

just most of the time screws kids up, right? So she seems to have her shit together and I'm not sure, I guess my point is I'm not sure I learned a ton more about her from this episode, right? But... Well, what about the song begged? So when she released Drop Dead and we talked to...

about that song. We talked about the kind of red herring of it, which is that it is the lead single from this album that is, that was rumored to have been begun during a period of time in which she was in a relationship and that she was writing about being in love and being in that relationship and then that relationship ends. And it feels like, just in terms of how long this has sort of been percolating, feels like there at least was time for things to get scrapped, reworked, added, whatever that might have been. And some of the intrigue about this album was always going to be, what story is she actually telling here? Is it the story of the relationship? Is it the story of the end of the relationship? Is it both? You get the title dropped dead and you think

angry kiss-off breakup song. It turns out not to be that at all. But then this song begged has a much different tone and does signal that at least some of what

is on the album, you look pretty sad for a girl so in love, is going to deal with a girl who's sad. A girl who's in love. Not just a girl who's in love, but a girl who's sad.

It feels a little bit like her, you're losing me. You know, it's, it's, it's sad, it's. Yeah. It's her you're losing me except instead of, I'm begging you to try, it's, and I don't even ask you to try. Yeah, I mean, yeah, fair enough, because they say it's a virtue to not let good love slip away. So I'm cool and forgiving. I'll take what you're giving. But nothing's quite enough when I know that to get it, I begged. I thought it was pretty wrenching.

Yeah, sitting on the swing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have been a fan of the Olivia ballads for a long time, as you know. And if there are three or two more like this, I'm pretty excited. I'm not always in on them to the same extent that you are, but I was pretty captivated watching her sing this. Yeah.

It's an album to look forward to. We're going to cover it, I think, in our first week, when you're back from your honeymoon and after you've hopefully both bailed me out of prison and forgiven me for whatever is about to transpire at your wedding in a few days. David, you are giving yourself a lot to live up to as a wedding guest. No, I'm going to completely disappoint in that regard. Oh, boy.

We will see, I guess. But that's Olivia on SNL. The 2006 Chevrolet Equinox awarded the most dependable compact SUV in the U.S. by J.D. Power is designed for your everyday. And with available all-wheel drive, you can handle your to-do list with total confidence. Start your build at Chevrolet.ca.

Details at J.D.Power.com. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price?

Moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group. Beauty is a powerful force that moves us. That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart with 100% of its brands. championing diversity. With 25,000 professional opportunities for people under 30 worldwide

and 54% of leading positions held by women, diversity is a strength that helps Loreal Group create the best beauty products for all people. Visit Loreal.com to learn more. Shall we get to the ladies of country music? Yeah, I mean, let's do it. I think for a long time, there's been a conversation between the two of us

about whether we would do a full Casey, even a full every single album season, right, where we'd go through album by album. And I feel like in that conversation, I have been the one who's been more hesitant. And I also feel like when you said, hey, let's do the new Casey album, my response was something like,

and chorus correct me if I'm wrong, because this is maybe me and my messianic complex, like taking credit for something. I don't mean to take credit for it. But I feel like, I want to explain why. why I said this, but I feel like it was me who said, well, if we're going to do the KC album, why don't we talk about her in the context of talking about Megan Moroni and Ella Langley as

well and just sort of do a thing about country girls? Is that your recollection of how it happened? So I have a feeling that that's where your mind was, so I don't want to deny you this at all. Hand to heart, I think Kaya said that. Okay. So I think what you said was, I don't know if we should do this Casey album, I think she's really going back to country. Okay. It wasn't because of that. It was just that like,

I thought that the last... But I also just, I think what you're saying is a true reflection of sort of like where you were on this whole thing. And so I don't... In some ways,

I think that's a distinction without a difference. I'm just answering your question to the best of my ability. Okay. Well, like I said, I probably invented some shit. But the feeling for me,

let me just speak to the feeling. The feeling was, I thought that the last Casey album was really just okay. And I thought that it was a reflection of her sort of searching to follow up a unicorn of an album in Golden Hour. And I didn't want to like just devote a whole episode if the album was just going to be a return to country and be good but not great.

I just felt like I didn't want to over a scribe real heft and weight to it if it wasn't going to be part of the mainstream thing. Like I guess at the core I was like, I don't know how big of an artist Casey Musgraves is in the mainstream. And so maybe we shouldn't sort of put that pressure. And if the album's just going to be okay, maybe we... So that's where it came from. Like I didn't want to be like, you know,

the grumpy old man talking about Casey. musgraves in the event that we got just an okay album that continued you know was another point on a graph that was sloping down and to the right from where golden hour was well and like dry spell the the lead single which i quite like yeah did not feel like it moved culture no did not feel like it was a song that really got into the zeitgeist and but I really liked it because I felt like

I felt like on the last album that Casey was taking herself really seriously yes and like not like

we had a good laugh about it being her like Saturn return thing but the deeper well it was just hard to get to and part of it was that a lot of women in that moment were talking about their Saturn return, right? Adele, as I recall, and it contributed to some of this basic Casey thing, but really in hindsight. Adele, Ariana Grande did it.

Yeah, right. Did Dula Lipa also have a little bit of a... Oh, I'm sure. Explicitly invoke, or was it just that the radical optimism whole vibe was a little bit my Saturn has returned? There it is. but I listen I loved the architect from that album I don't understand are there

blueprints or plants can I speak to the architect I just didn't think it was it was great and so I think I was just a little gun shy I agree with you it was not only not great it was a retreat from her superpowers I felt I mean there are moments on that album that I like

but Casey Musgraves is an artist who has been, I think, at her best when she has a little bit of an edge. And she was so explicitly just sanding all of that away and saying, I'm a little stoned and I'm a little loosey-goosey and hey, who really cares about all that stuff? I'm just okay. And it's not, it doesn't feel, she can be so exciting because you just, you, I'll speak for myself.

I love to hear the way that she sees the world. Yeah. And she kind of on Deeper Well said, I'm not really looking that hard right now. And that was disappointing to me. Yeah, it's also like, so Golden Hour was eight years ago. She followed that with like what we all deemed to be the divorce album Starcrossed, which didn't do much and we kind of just let it go.

And then came Deeper Well, she's done with MCA. She moves back to Lost Highway, which I think was a pretty good indication of where she was going lost highway being sort of a traditional, back to her sort of traditional country roots. But it was that sort of trajectory. And you're right that I don't think she was chasing anything. She's just doing and making art where she is now. And that's totally cool. But as a fan, when you get something that has the brilliance of golden hour, I don't think it's uncommon for fans. Okay, wait, let me see if she, is she going to go into the absolute stratosphere in terms of mainstream pop?

And by the way, she toured that way. Arena tours, big, you know, like, is this going to be a crossover, Shania Twain, Taylor Swift, coming from Nashville into the pop mainstream story? And I think the reality is that after Golden Hour, she made art that is authentically her and is absolutely passable. And for a lot of people, they really enjoyed it. And that's all good. it wasn't a catalyzing moment to explode her into, you know, the stratosphere of stardom. And that is okay. That's not like a criticism at all. But it colored the way that I thought about us doing an episode of her just alone. Now, the irony of that is, I really like this record.

Yeah. And I think that Dryspell is cute and funny and tongue and cheek and has all of the personality and human. and self-reflection and in some ways, you know, self-confidence. And it's that I felt like deeper well, I was like, oh, man, she's a little adrift. She's hanging out with crystals and out in the forest and, you know, and listening to Willow. This one just felt more just grounded. And it's got, you know, as we'll talk about, it's got the sort of piece pipe song with Miranda Lambert. It's got, you know, a fun

Willie feature. I fucking love that. Yeah, it's great. And it, it, it, it, I don't know, I just feel like she, um, on this album feels like like she knows herself more deeply and is, is able to just sort of speak that. She seems less like she's searching like she did on StarCrossed in deeper well. And now at. peace with who she is. She's walking around in a fucking Armadillo costume.

Did you see that shit? Like asking people if they have the case? I mean, God, love it. It's great. It's the kind of thing that if you ask Katie Perry to do in this moment, it would be cringe. But it's, it, Katie would have the balls to go to do that. Crazy McGill outfit. Not good.

It would feel like she was trying too hard. In Casey's situation, you know, of course, Rhinestone. she just cannot make an album without a song about weed. It's great. Maybe you get a little... But she, in case of the situation... I wouldn't want her to, by the way. No, I can believe that she absolutely hotboxed in like a Nissan Centra in the parking lot of that target, put on the fucking costume, had the two film people go in with her, and she just did it.

I think she hotboxed the inside of the armadillo. Yeah, yeah. She probably did. She probably did. But I say all that because I think it was a defense mechanism on my part to want to do. It's going to be really interesting to talk to you about this because I think these are three women of country who, Casey's a decade or so older than they are. But they're intertwined. Obviously, there's, you know, Casey's got a feature with Megan. There's, you know, Miranda Lambert. Who's on the Casey record produced Dandelion, which is Ella Langley's album that came out last month. And so there's important interconnectivity between the three.

And in a moment of serendipity for the Every Single Album podcast, you know, they do represent important lanes in country right now that are worth talking about because all three of them have crossed over in some capacity and have the opportunity to do it even more. But I say this is a long, long-ass winded way of just saying, I think that I was skisking. Giddish and Gunchai and afraid to talk fully in an episode about Casey because I just wasn't sure if there was enough there there, but she gave us the gift of the interconnectivity between some of these other artists that I think makes the discussion interesting, at least for me. Let's see. It's interesting that what did you just say that like she feels a little bit more confident on this album and like she's not searching?

Yeah. And I totally agree, but it's so funny because it is. literally called middle of nowhere. Yeah. Now obviously that's a, that's a reference to a certain type of, you know, rural life and Texas. She saw a sign in her, yeah, hometown that said welcome to the middle of nowhere. And she's like, that's where I am. She's making this return to her roots.

But at the same time, she is presenting it with all of this language of kind of being lost, like of kind of being adrift. She, you know, there's the, I love Uncertain Texas, the song with, Willie Nelson. Here in uncertain Texas I just don't know anymore.

Where, of course, she's using, she's talking about a bunch of guys that can't commit, but she's also talking about, you know, she calls it the great state

of confusion. And so there's just so much about kind of messiness and about not knowing like where your life is going to go. what you want necessarily.

And it is the Casey Musgraves magic that she sounds so confident when she's acknowledging all of those things and she's talking about things that are a little bit hard or

naughty or like in all those different directions and it's just like that is what I missed on deeper well from her because that to me was the inverse was her saying, I got no problems.

Everything is placid and serene. and in doing that, she sounds not self-assured and not okay. She's alone and okay on this album. Totally. And before I think she was trying to convince you that she was okay, but the searching and seeking, it's like that friend who like, you know, shows up talking about some crazy-ass shit and you're like, oh, that's great. And then you go and you tell your other five friends, oh, God, he's in trouble.

Like, we got a problem here. That's what their last album felt like. You know what? This album really respects its audience. it respects that when you hear it you can handle it and you can engage with it and that you'll relate to it

whereas there is something about that person telling you, oh, I'm so great, I'm so good. You're just like, no, you're fucking not. You're adrift. It's not maybe you're in trouble. It's that you're adrift. And it felt like on deeper well, she was a little bit adrift,

grasping its straws, you know, vulnerable to whatever it was to try to give her some comfort and stability in the world. And this feels she just feels stable and you don't you aren't able to poke fun at yourself in the way that she does multiple times across this album unless you're comfortable with who you are and where you are and that your your own ego is in a good place and you understand your place in the world and that's

that's special because um i think you could see a situation in which after making golden hour and all of the everything that comes with winning the album of the fucking year, right? That's an enormous amount of pressure. And it just is. And whether it's in your own mind, whether it's not, I mean, I think about Noah Khan, who this week is like making video after video after video, you know, thanking the fan base for being number one and talking about how cool it is. And like, you know, he's expressing a lot of gratitude. There's going to be a flip side to that coin at some point, which is like, okay, now you got to go number one. You know, you don't have to go number one, of course, that's the fake, you know, thing that the music business will have you believe.

But it's, for any artist, it's hard. When you pierce through like that, there's no way to avoid it. And very few people would ever be able to be like, well, fuck it, I'm just going to make whatever I want. So it wouldn't surprise me if in two years, two months, five years from now, whatever, if, you know, we injected Casey with True serum that she told us that the last couple of years we're really recovering from that high and recovering and finding herself with who she is and getting really comfortable that the art she makes

is good enough and that it doesn't have to measure up to Golden Hour. And that's what this album feels like. It doesn't have to measure up because it's its own thing. It has a really clear perspective. It's grounded in, you know, this sort of intersection of country and regional Mexican and humor and, you know, yeah.

I just, I really, really enjoyed it. Well, and it has her voice. I just, I mean, I just love her voice. I just love how it sounds when she sings. What do you think it is? Is it like the tonal? It's so warm. Like, there's so much warmth to it.

It just feels like a big, again, even when she's singing something sad or something kind of mean or something funny, like there's, it just, her voice is my golden hour. It's like it glows to me. And, you know, I think that's why, even after an album that I agree with you. Like, I was pretty disappointed in the last album. And I don't go back to it. And it is, it runs contrary to the things that I really love about her. But, like, I just, I will sort of never quit her because there is just something about her where I'm like, oh, God.

You know, wrap me up. up in that warm Casey thing. I think she's a good hang? Yeah. I don't know. Do you think she's a good hang or you think she's just like out there? I mean, Miranda Lambert thinks that she's a good hang now. Well, now.

Didn't a couple years ago. Yeah. I don't know. I think she's a good hang. Let me put it this way. I'd like to hang out with her after this album for sure. It's interesting to talk about her voice because I think that there's something really interesting to contrast between Casey's voice

between Megan Moroni's voice which sounds huskier has the growl sounds like she could be a you know a chain smoker right

but has pop sensibility and in some ways can go more after an up tempo you know rocker bopper

than Casey really can carry on her own because there is that smoothness and just sort of effortless honey that comes out of Casey. The downside of that is, you know, I don't know that we'd believe her if she was singing a,

you know, a Haley Williams song in the same way. I'm not sure she would carry it in that way. That's not to say she's not capable of it. It just isn't her sort of go zone. Megan Moroni has that, a little bit of that growl, and there's a little bit of danger

and there's a little bit of morning after. She can do a little bit of emo. It's like she can hit that. Yep. And it's different vocally than what we hear out of a lot of artists in Nashville. Ella Langley to me, and some of this is probably her,

her, you know, the Alabama in her. But she sounds like a, you know, air to the Lainey Wilson throne, which is you can hear the country in her voice, in her accent. Sure. Jack all by myself He's choosing Texas I can tell

But she also I think has pretty impressive range within that. Like I think of the three, I find her to be one of the most interesting songwriters that I've heard in a long time. Like I think her album

Dandelion has stuff that in the fact that she had a Billboard number one hit on the Billboard 100 is Hot One is pretty darn impressive. There are not many women coming from country who have ever done that, period. It is a highly historic, rarefied error thing

for somebody to be able to do. And I think there's, you know, the subject matter of the song, and it's such a well-crafted song, has a lot to do with it. But there's something safe and warm about her that maintains the, I don't know what it is.

It has a little bit more danger than Casey. it's also more serious than Casey it takes itself more seriously if I can say that about a voice Yeah Yeah no I think that's all right And it's a and in what you're saying About kind of in the Lainey Wilson tradition

I'm this I hope this sounds like the compliment That I mean it as Part of it is like it's you know it's so country Because you get the sense That she could really Like holler in the cows like if she needed to kind of scream in a way that would pierce the sky, she could do it in a way that like that's not what Casey does.

Right. So there is, there's a severity that she can access that I don't think is there for Casey. I mean, let's talk about like the popularity. Did Ella Langley catch you off guard at all? Like, did that come out of nowhere for you? Yeah, it did. Me too. It came absolutely out of nowhere.

And I think for most people it did. though she had been sort of around, right? But I mean, choosing Texas is streaming 2.7, 2.8 million a day on Spotify. Yeah. That's massive. And you go, okay, well, maybe it's one hit, Wonder, or, you know, there's not as much there. Well, her Morgan Wallin song is doing 1.2, so a little less than half that. But she's got the song, Be Her, which is streaming 1.5 million.

Like, there's more than just this one. one-hit song. It is starting to percolate the audiences down into the rest of the catalog and actually lift her up. She is officially an artist. Do you think that it is some evidence of this thing that we see pretty regularly pop up where it's a reminder of the breadth of the country audience that actually does exist but intermittently is served by things near the center of pop culture, if that makes sense? It's almost like there's sort of this,

it's like the silent majority of Morgan Wallen fans in some ways pops up in these different ways. Maybe, yes. Although there isn't anything racy or controversial about what Ella writes. I mean, I think there's a couple things at play. There's a couple things at play. I think both in Megan and Ella's case,

they are writing songs that, have some pop sensibilities. Definitely. And they definitely both live in a post-Casey Musgraves, post-Goldenauer world, right? Like, which is sort of funny that we're talking about them and then we're talking about this Casey album that retreats from a lot of that.

Right. But an earlier iteration of Casey is a fore-mother mother of what they're doing. But I think Megan is the one who sounds like she's really pulling at the pop crossover strings. Whereas Ella is very comfortable in this lane in the genre and Miranda Lambert produced the whole record and on and on and on.

I think there's a couple of things. I mean, just to say it, women have had a very, very hard time breaking out in Nashville. It's just the ratio there is fairly low. These are two, I think it's fair to say, and I'll let you weigh in. I think these are two objectively beautiful young women who have the ability to sort of

play that part and sort of be cover, you know, photo shoot, crossover, sort of stars in that way that I think are helping them break through those barriers. But what has gotten them here has nothing to do with that. And I think everything to do with the music, which feels substantive and unique in its lane and not trying to be something, you know, different. But it is, I think they both represent sort of a wishbone from a turkey, right? And it's sort of two branches of the way that Nashville songwriting for women is happening right now. And their success bodes very, very well. Yeah, they both have an ability in the music more so for Megan. But I think both of them

like Ella at least tracks as credible in a pop crossover space. I think of the two of them she is more traditionally country but I don't think

that there's country isn't she? Yes, but I don't think that she seems like she couldn't function. I mean she's got a song

called it wasn't God who made Honky Tonk Angels on Dandelion. It wasn't God and it starts with Froggy Went to Corton

and it ends with Froggy went to Corton, which is her, you know, it's this traditional shit. I mean, she's intentionally staying right down the middle of that lane, that country lane, and a lot of the stuff in the back, you know, end part of the album.

Yeah, but in the production, in quite a bit of the production, it doesn't... Yeah, there aren't fiddles and banjos all over this thing. There's not fiddles and banjos. That's what I'm saying. That's right. That's right. And, you know, speaking terms

feels like a song that, you know, is about her faith, probably, although it sort of is positioned as a relationship song. There's some gentle challenging of some of the traditional country framing, you know, frameworks for songs, euristics, bottom of your boots. Like there's some stuff here that, to your point, it falls outside lyrically. But it all, to me, feels super believable. and that that's what works.

And I felt the same way about the Megan album. I mean, I think she's got a hit on her hands in six, or coming out of her last album in Tennessee Orange, that I think sort of put her on the map. And that's that one that it feels like, you know, is going to persevere. This album, Cloud 9, I mean, what, what, did you have a general reaction to it?

I enjoy. it. I think the thing that made me the most excited was that Casey Musgraves is on it. Yeah. She's sweet and she's simple. She's like me without the bell. I found it really pleasant if a little slippery. Like I didn't quite know what I was supposed to latch on to. But I do think that and maybe that's because she is, you know, she's kind of a tweener musically. Like she is straddling these sort of different, she's melding genres, she's doing it a little bit differently. I haven't really like found my way of latching on to Megan Moroni. I don't have you.

No, I mean, I'm interested in the approach, which is can we write country music that really has strong pop sensibilities? And I'm looking at, you know, six months later is doing 175,000, Modify streams a day. So it's significantly behind where Tennessee Orange is. That said, it's been out for a bit. She's, you know, it's going to be her sixth. It is her sixth highest streaming song of all time. It'll probably ultimately be her second. So she's got something on there. But in aggregate, you know, the stream counts from this album are in the hundred something thousands. Yeah. So it's not absolutely crushing right now and taking off. You know, in the way that, I mean, we just talked about Ella Langley,

you look at Ella's stuff, and again, she's got a couple songs that are streaming in the million, two million a day from this album. So there's a lot there. And then Casey, whose album is basically just out, but she's getting three quarters of a million, $600,000 a day across all of the things on this album right now. Now we've got to see what happens over the next couple weeks,

but that's actually just to contextualize. It feels healthy, is my point. And I think that this one, if you're her label, if you're lost highway, you're pretty happy with how this thing has come out of the gate. Because it doesn't feel like there's like a massive hit. You know, Dry Spells doing half a million, 600,000 Spotify's streams a day. But everything else is... I mean, I think... I don't think it's like a massive hit or anything.

But I think people like the Miranda Lambert song. And I think that's buzzy and I think it's funny. And that's the one that is the second most popular right now on the record. Yeah. I mean, that's the one that just anecdotally, I am seeing my friends put in their Instagram stories and just sort of crack a joke about it or just be excited about it. You know, give them credit for squashing the beef and doing it in a way that we all benefit from. To be clear, horses and divorces is the name of the out. It's the name of the song.

It's the name of the song. And it's basically we've realized we've got a few things in common like horses and divorces and we both like to drink. Baby, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is funny. Like, it's just really likable. Yeah, let me be clear. The numbers that I gave you for sort of the average, the average album stuff is doing, I don't know,

it's doing more like 200,000 streams a day, but those, you know, middle of nowhere is at half a million. I don't care. And dry spells over half a million. And, you know, horses and divorces is high as well. So there's stuff that is percolating and popping. And again, I think, you know, and I also wonder if it'll, I mean,

I don't know if it'll literally pick up because there is, things tend to go, it tends to be a decay curve from the album getting released. That said, I, look, I'm the person who is advocating for this, and I really, really love her. I did, I felt like the scent was off of her. I felt like it was, I don't know.

The last album was kind of shaky and now it seems like she's sort of retreating to country and almost conceding something by getting smaller or going away from the country pop crossover that she was doing

when she was sort of at her highest high. I think people will discover this and I think they will like what they discover and I think it will engage people in a way that feels sustainable. Yeah, the roots of this album have a larger audience than the roots of the crystal, fairy, woodsy, Saturn Return stuff, I think. That's, it just is going to have a better audience. This is something you can put on and not take too seriously.

I mean, she did the music video for Dry Spell, which, had some production value and was funny and made the rounds to a degree. But if you remember a round deeper well, she did some pretty big magazine spreads. She, you know, she was talking about the Saturn return and the divorce and was centering the narrative of the album in a way that got the word out about it. And I don't, like, I didn't, this one was a much more casual, here's the album. Yeah. Well, and my gut says new label, new approach.

I wouldn't surprise me if they didn't want to set massive expectations. Yeah. And they're getting us back to falling in love with Casey again, which when she walks around an armadillo costume and fucking, you know, sings about Willie, you're an asshole if you don't like Willie Nelson. You're an asshole if you don't like Willie. And makes up with Miranda Lamber Like I'm all in

So I mean is there are there particular songs from this from this Casey record that deeply move you Or is it just a good hang as I said earlier I think loneliest girl is really beautiful Okay, he is just so lovely and it's just so it doesn't make me cry. It doesn't make me fall to my knees and writhe with emotion. But I don't think that's what she's trying to do.

But I think it's really poignant and strong. I also really like, well, it's less so the song itself in some ways, but when I listened to Tobacco on the Wagon for the first time, which is about this guy who drinks too much, but she's sort of believing him that he's going to find a way to be better. And I didn't quite know.

Stop it. My signature cocktail is the cosmopolitan. Do you want to just, you're just going to be ripping cosmos? I'm definitely not. It's been a long time since I've had something to drink. This could be a problem. Let's be honest. You're going to need a wheelbarrow to get me out of there.

you'll be back back off the wagon, I guess. But I was a little confused by it because I couldn't tell if it's so sincere. Right. And it kind of doesn't have, you're expecting there to be a little Casey twist to it where either at the end it's going to be like, no, I was wrong.

And I, you know, this wasn't right or this wasn't actually going to, going to happen. I was being naive. And it doesn't come in that song. And I was sort of thrown for a loop by it. And then at the very end of the album, there's a song, Hell on Me. Yeah.

I tried to be a range, but you made it hell alone. That is just heartbreaking. Yeah, that's a major. Yeah. Yeah. So that, I mean, that, that hit me somewhere. I think there are some other. I, you pointed out the influence of,

Mexican regional music and I think Mexico Honey is just a beautiful song. Yeah. And then I love Uncertain Texas. I just think that's very funny. That also has a little bit of that

Tejano influence coming in, which is cool. The part where she's like the dusty old snake charm and heartbreak and dumbass mind can't make it up is that's just like a great Casey line. And then what else was I super into?

Yeah, loneliest girl. And then I really like everybody wants to be a cowboy. Yeah, I like that too. I actually like that one a lot. Yeah. That was one of my favorites on the record. Yeah. Well, and it's such a real thing.

And, you know, like I go to Wyoming to ski most years. And there is this thing where, and I'm totally guilty of this too, it's like all of these stupid people who do not ride horses or tend to farm wearing the hats and the boots and like all the kind of cowboy cosplay. That is such a thing. And then there's this moment where you fly back home and all of a sudden you're in Newark Airport just like holding a cowboy hat being like, what kind of a dipshit am I? And that was on my mind.

And I think the fact that she sort of, you know, I'm projecting a little bit, but using that idea of the kind of Western cosplay that is very prominent in fashion and in culture in those ways as a way into a guy who won't commit, who kind of wants to try it on as a costume, but not actually do the hard work of being a cowboy and dealing with animals and getting up early. and, you know, mowing the grass and stuff. I thought that was very, I thought it was very smart. Abilene, were there any, Abilene gave me pretty hardcore, nobody, no crime vibes. Sure. They really felt like,

I don't know. They felt like almost sister songs, but yeah, I think it's a, I think it's a really serviceable album. There isn't a breakout here. There isn't a, oh, that song absolutely destroyed me here. But it is fun. And we haven't had a fun casey moment in about eight years. And so I'm excited to have it in our lives. The Megan Maroney one is something that I'm watching closely because, first of all, she does get the Casey sort of blessing. There are a few things on there that sound intentional. Lions and tigers and bear, like that song sounds a lot like lie to girls,

Sabrina's lie to girls to me. There are subtle. pop references throughout this. And I think the question is just, is there a song on here? If you merge Ella Langley

and Megan Moroni right now, you have a hot 100 hit. You've got somebody with sort of pop-ish leanings and you've got great songwriting all rolled into one. Like you got like the perfect fucking Voltron of like country songwriting and somebody who could

absolutely cross over. But that's just one where I think she's not being coy about the desire to cross over. So it's just whether one of the songs on this album can punch its way out of the constraints of the Nashville ecosystem. Sabrina's an interesting kind of touchpoint for her because Sabrina dabbles in country. Right. Sabrina is our most pop star pop star right now, but she absolutely dips more than a toe into country music. Well, that's right. And that's what's happening here, right? Megan's, she's collaborated with Ed Sheeran.

Ed Sheeran, seemingly highly available at the moment, by the way. Yeah. With I Only Miss You. I only miss you when I'm drinking. And baby, I've been drinking because I miss you all the time. I thought that wish I did. I like that song. I like that song.

Yeah, I like it. I like it. Again, lions and tigers and bears feels like a hat tip to lie to girls. I don't hate Ed Shearin as anywhere near as my... I don't hate Ed Shearin at all. You guys are wrong about how I feel about Ed Shearing. Anything else you want to say about that? No, we're good.

I just wanted to get that off of my job. Okay. Wish I didn't is definitely feels like a pop song. And there's a song that's the bonus track, which is sorry I meant tonight. that is heavy duty pop song. And so as you get towards the back part of the album, she sometimes lets her guard down

and shows you sort of who she really is on some of these things. I like the Casey song, Bells and Whistles. I love that. That's my favorite. Yeah, I'm with you. I think it's actually really, really stellar. And it's sort of buried at track 11. And it takes a long time to get there.

But I understand why they front-loaded with, there's an Amy Allen song. There's, you know, a lot of the six months later, which is the, you know, ostensible hit from this. There's a lot of sort of punchier stuff up front, but bells and whistles is a special song. Do you think that in a way she'd like to center the pop stuff, the most pop stuff, a little bit more? but it's just it's a very clear identity to

this is the woman who's doing country pop who's doing who's existing in the midpoint of these spaces sometimes it seems like her heart's more

in the pop stuff that's what I feel from this album I have no context but that's that is my takeaway as a listener for sure and it feels like

she's trying feels like she's maybe doing the Taylor Swift circa 2010 thing in Speak Now, which is not alienate or make the sort of Nashville folks upset, but she's got a

very clear eye tiptoeing in a direction. Yeah, she sees the beacon on the hill and it's crossover. Should we leave it there? I'm interested to see what happens next for all of these women, really, with

touring and and with additional musical directions. But I think there's a lot that it's just, it does feel like there's been this surge of women in country where it's, I mean, it's been a minute. It's been a minute since it felt like there was really vibrant collection that was breaking into mainstream and pop spaces. Yeah.

I think it's, um, I think it's fun to see what we've seen happen in pop, which is that this breakout cluster of, as Taylor used the words, so aptly confessional female songwriters starting to move their way, not just into like consciousness, but actually at the top of the charts. And that's happening. We saw that happen in pop, and it's now happening in country. And it's a cool moment. That's very cool.

All right. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Pinciotti. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kai and McMullen for producing this episode and to you for listening. We'll talk to you next week. Spotify, it's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people?

scrolling through spreadsheets, searching for an audience that pays twice as much attention to your ads than they do on social? Let me introduce you to fans. And they're here with me on Spotify. Trust me, I know fans. They don't skip. They stay fast. hours. They don't move on. They manifest. They're not a demographic group. They're fans. Spotify

advertising. You're among fans. Hey y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca.cair, every style, every home.