Every Single Album - 'Made in the A.M.' | Every Single Album: One Direction

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

They're down one member, but they're still rocking. Nora and Nathan talk about One Direction's bittersweet final album as a band. They discuss "Drag Me Down," the defiant lead single they released (1:00), their sophistication as songwriters showing through in songs like "Olivia" and "Hey Angel" (17:40), and how this album telegraphs what comes next for the members of One Direction (44:13). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Matt Bellany, founding partner of Puck News, and I'm covering the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. With my new show, The Town, I'm going to take you inside Hollywood with exclusive insight on what people in show business are actually talking about. Multiple times a week, I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know, journalists, insiders, all of whom can break down the hottest topics in entertainment to tell you what's really going on. Listen now. Hello, and welcome to every single album, One Direction. I'm Nora Pinciotti, joined as always by Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, we are at the end of our One Direction-specific journey here. How are you doing?

How are you feeling about it? I'm not great. How did we come in second to the Bebs on this album? It's a tough scene. It's a tough scene. What Nathan is referring to is that we are going to talk about Made in the AM, One Direction's fifth album, on this episode. episode.

All these can drag me down. Which was released in November of 2015 and debuted at number one in the United Kingdom, but number two in the U.S. behind Justin Bieber's purpose. Duh. My mom I don't like you and she likes everyone. Which maybe we acknowledge with chagrin depending on how good or not so good you feel about the Beeb. I actually feel, I'm going to be honest. I'm a bit of a believer.

Yeah. Fy personal decisions aside. But purpose, I don't know if that was the high point of the Bieber experience. It actually, Made in the AM actually did better in its first week sales than four did. It's just that we had the Beeb's comeback album that got in the way of a fifth consecutive number one debut on the U.S. charts. I mean... It's okay. Also, I quibble with purpose because I don't think it's like top to bottom super strong,

but like the highs on that album. Yeah, they're pretty high. They're pretty high. And honestly, that's just... Is it too late now to say sorry? Honestly, he's getting back at them for stealing his haircut. But the truth is, like, I think this is where chart position... is a bit misleading because the demand for what we saw was higher than ever.

Drag Me Down gets released unannounced, no warning, absolutely blows up Spotify, absolutely blows up the charts. There is a ton of excitement and enthusiasm for what's happening now. You know, scarcity is the driver of lots of demand, and you have a fan base that is desperate in this moment for some validation and confirmation that this thing that they have been hotly following for four years now is not going to disappear.

Right. So our last episode was on their fourth album, four. Now there are four members because Zane is gone. And I'm curious, Nathan, if just where this album sort of fits for you in One Directions discography now that we are at the end of going through it, if this feels like a different album, if this album still feels kind of attached to four for you, where like break that down for me. I miss Zane, but this album stands on its own.

I love the songwriting on this album lyrically as, we'll see, I have a hard time finding the shittiest lyric. I think they did a great job of evolving and maturing their sound. And I think that Liam and Louis get a lot of credit for that with maybe a hat-tip to Nile too, who plays a role on this album. So in hindsight, for me, I love this album as a standalone evolution of what the band is doing. You can hear each of them refining their voice and using it as a stepping stone into what's going to come next. I still think, though, that that wasn't the, if you'll pardon the pun, purpose of this album. This was full on a one-direction album that just happened to be without Zane. And as I listen back through these tracks and read

the reviews in the moment, a lot of people said, well, this is their, this is like the Beatles let it be. They know everything's coming to an end and it's all winding down. And this is sort of a goodbye parting gift. Speaking words of wisdom, let it be. I think it's more than that. I think it matters and I think it is the next step in what is an evolution that happens very quickly over a five-year period of time,

but it is distinctly different and a step forward from four for me. How do you feel about it? Well, so I'm with you in part and not in full, and I think that makes sense. What's new, Nora? Yeah, exactly. The story of one direction, like in its entirety to me, is about these two sort of conflicting impulses and functions,

one of which is just boy bands are naturally ephemeral. How could this possibly last? We have to squeeze every drop of production and productivity out of this group, out of these boys in a short a period of time as possible, work them to death in a lot of ways that, created a lot of things that fans loved. Yes. And kept giving them more and more and making them fall more and more in love with this group,

but also were really hard. And then the second track and the second trajectory, which emerged, which was maybe even unbeknownst to the people who found them and started working with them and maybe to the guys themselves initially, these are really musical people who had a lot to offer. And as the wear and tear of what they went through, and the pace at which they were operating and all of the outside pressures and Zane being upset and all of that, as all of that starts to take its toll, the fact that they've gotten this real musical training and are coming into their own and discovering what they want to be as artists,

all of that is coming more and more and more to the forefront. So there's... Do you think of this as a One Direction album? So where I arrive is that I really, really do because I actually think of this. album, funnily enough, as not necessarily totally similar to four, but I do couple it with four because those are the two One Direction albums that I think are spectacular pieces of music, spectacular collections of songs that I just, I, it feels like a group that's firing on all cylinders. And also, they fundamentally sound like they were made with instruments more so than

computers, which is something that I ascribe to the guys kind of discovering what they wanted to do and what they wanted to be. So you hear them come through, I think, more in those two albums than in the earlier ones, which I think carry themselves with some really, really wonderful music, but especially more so than that, just with an attitude and with some sort of lightning in a bottle moments, like what makes you beautiful, just sort of for no good reason, being a perfect pop song. So it's funny that when they go through this, what should be a seismic shift of Zane leaving and what was in a lot of ways, musically, it doesn't feel that different.

There are differences. But they do get to make this album and still be and feel like themselves. And I think part of that is because the music is becoming, there's more. and more of the guys in the music. So even though there's only four of them left, they're really putting themselves into this stuff. But we still have Julian Bonetta, we still have John Ryan,

we still have Jamie Scott participating in every single track on this album. Yep, totally. And not, we'll talk about it when we get to collaborators, but they're not adding to the group all that much in terms of who's influencing the writing and the sounds. There's new people here and there, but that's the core group and it stays intact.

So that probably has a lot to do with why it's fairly consistent, even when they've been sort of shaken by saying leaving. For sure. All right. Should we just get to it? Let's get to it. So you mentioned Drag Me Down already. And that's the biggest hit, right?

It peaked at number three, which tied it with Live while we're young and was only behind best song ever in terms of where they wound up on the Hot 100. It was the first single, they get the music video where they're astronauts and, you know, Harry drinks from the rainbow mug with next to a robot, and it's very exciting. Yeah.

It's also super zeitgeisty because there's sort of a zane, nobody can drag me down angle to this. You're with me? I am. There's no doubt. I mean, look, first of all, this album has an aura of celebration around it.

Boy bands did not get this far. Insync made three albums that mattered, and don't bring me all the Christmas stuff that they did. That shit doesn't count. This is a real now canon of work. And this song has some of that celebration in it. It also gives just enough innuendo that people can read whatever they

want into it about the Zane departure. Is there bitterness in this song to you? If this is One Direction doing bitterness, that actually kind of says a lot about One Direction, right? And the personalities that are in this group. Because this actually very well might be them doing bitterness. It's really not all that bitter. Look, the live version of this song is unbelievable.

Harry sings the hell out of these vocal dissents. He's tossing his hair out of. of his face, but, you know, he's singing like a superstar. It's really some next-level stuff. Louis on the pre-chorus. Whoa. Louis smokes this song. He's got an edge.

It's, wow, has he come a long way. He totally has an edge and he's come a long way, but he also, you need that nasal quality. Yes. Sometimes. And there's a sharpness to it that works so well here. and it's amazing to sort of see where he is. Yeah, totally. But it's the biggest.

Yeah, it's definitely the biggest. I need to bring up something that has to do with this song. So there was an interview that the guys did about a lot of the songs on this album, just the album as a whole. But Liam is talking about this song. And he says that Jamie Scott, when he brought it to them, before playing the song for the guys, he described it as a mixture between Tio Cruz.

and Maroon 5. Come on, man. How can they say that? Well, so, apparently this did not really go over well. And Liam's like, what are you? Taya Cruz and Maroon 5. What do you want us to do here? And I don't think he explained it in the best way possible,

but it was like whatever. He said it's a mixture, mixture between Tio Cruz and Maroon 5. And we were like, what? Like, that doesn't make any sense. And when they heard it, they still didn't love it. They thought it was kind of too different from the sounds that they were super into.

According to Liam, what they tweaked to get comfortable with it and to be more into it had a lot to do with the drum sounds. And particularly, if you listen, it's a lot of handclaps. It's a lot of like symbols. It's really not very Tio Cruz or Maroon Five. and I think that's an interesting example of them exerting their musical influence, even in a situation where, you know, none of them write on this song, it's just brought to them. That's happening less and less, but it is still happening.

I guess they got the, their influence was getting the Taya Cruz out of the room. Yeah, well, first of all, Tio Cruz's dynamite is stole my heart from up all night. We've established that. They've already done it. They've already done it once before. So good for them for not repeating it. But second of all, can you actually name another Tio Cruz song? Um, oh, shoot.

No. Yes. You win if you can. Um. Oh, yeah. The hangover song with Flo Rida. I got a hangover. Oh,

oh, oh, great. Nora wins again. Just my luck. Here's my point. Like, Taya Cruz is not a sound. Tio Cruz is dynamite. Tio Cruz is a vibe. Tio Cruz is a lifestyle. Tio Cruz is an experience. So, like, I don't know. When you walk in the room, you're like, I'm thinking Tio Cruz, you're saying it's dynamite. But also, like, what is a mixture between Tio Cruz and Maroon 5? I don't know. I don't know. There's a lot of Maroon 5 little. It's like a mixture between a donkey and a snail.

Like, we can't breathe these things together in a lot. Like, I don't know how. Well, maybe we could. That seems like a great idea. That would be the slowest animal on earth. The slowest dumbest animal on earth besides me would be a donkey bred with a snail. All right. I think we have to move on. Well, no, before we move on, though,

do you like this song? I do. I totally dig it. I totally dig it. You know, sometimes with the singles, it's easy to sort of roll your eyes. but this song is cool. Harry rocks it. They all rock it.

I love it. I love it. They sound great. Shouts to Louis. I do have one small issue with this song, but I'm going to save it for later. Well, so is it the best song on the album? I don't think it's the best song in the album.

I think it's top half. And let's talk through this because I need help. This is a genuinely impossible category for me. Uh, my contenders are Olivia. Yep. Hey Angel. Hey Angel. Oh.

A.M. It's always made. Perfect. And history. Baby you're perfect. So let's start right now. But it's pretty hard for me to not bring up what a feeling. I think the bonus tracks are really good.

I, I, this album is stacked. I think this album is stacked. and particularly, I think it's really consistently good. So help me, please. Okay, first of all, I think the right answer is temporary fix. So that's what I was, when I say I think the bonus tracks are really good, what I mean in my head is temporary fix. Yeah, I mean, I have a problem as I have throughout the course of this journey

with the fact that this is, you know, sex on fire by Kings Leone. but I it's so good and Nile wrote it that I love this song I think Olivia's got to be in the conversation we'll revisit that and say who is Olivia

who is Diana can somebody tell me these things well Harry knows who Olivia is now but maybe not at this point well the question yeah was that fortune telling was that aspirational I don't know

am I the only one who thinks if I could fly is awesome? For your eyes on my heart. Why does that song get me? I love this song. The For Your Eyes Only. Because it's a Harry-Stiles song.

And it is a Harry-style song. He wrote it with Johann Carlson, who he was writing kind of a lot with at the time. They wrote a song for Ariana Grande, called Just a Little Bit of Your Heart. that's on my everything that Harry has done live and I sort of think

should have been a Harry style song. Well, the For Your Eyes only sounds a lot like Bonnie Rates, I can't make you love me. Yes. But it's not a lift. So this song is great.

I feel a bit like a cheeseball to love this song, but I really, I really love if I could fly. It's not the best, absolute best song, but I'm with you. that there's this mix.

You don't like Infinity? I like Infinity a lot. You will hear this when you force me to cut something that I dearly love at some point. I just don't think that there are weak points on this album. I mean, you know, everything's relative. We'll have a conversation about that. Infinity, it just gets so lost because it's that big song

and it's sort of a silly word and to infinity and beyond. it sort of gets into that. But the song is awesome. The song is awesome. The guys love this song. Do they? Yeah, there's some interviews. They did this.

If people haven't, this is what I was referencing where Liam tells that story about Jamie Scott mentioning Tower Cruise and Maroon 5. Billboard just got an interview with them where they went through track by track and talked about the songs.

It is awesome. And when they talk about Infinity, they're all just like, I love that song. That's one of my favorite songs on the record. Louis says epic banger, yeah? Banger. Epic banger.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. I mean, they've got the fix you outro drum thing, but most of the entire song is basically E to B to A. But there's that one section at the end and around the like, I don't know, 335 mark where they go E to B and then they drop to F minor, F sharp minor. and it rules. It absolutely rules. Nile starts the song out. Like, look at how much progress we've made.

Down to earth. Keep them falling when I know it hurts. And there's just something about this song that for me resonates really deeply. I'm with you, though, Nora, it's really hard to pick what's the best thing on this album. Those are the four for me. I don't know that I can pick between them. How do you feel about Hey Angel? Because I love Infinity. I think the reason that Infinity is not on this list is that Hey Angel is the like huge song with bittersweet symphony vibes and big strings that like really, really gets me on this one. And Infinity totally does that too.

But Hey Angel, I just absolutely love. I think it's really good. It's a great scene setter. It definitely has that bittersweet symphony vibe. that sometimes gets in the way of me being able to fully enjoy a One Direction song when it's all in your face. This isn't totally in your face. I mean, Harry talks about this being like clouds. I didn't totally get clouds, as you know, but I definitely get Hey Angel. Like, I really enjoy the song. I think it does an awesome job of setting the scene. And for

whatever reason, it's the perfect opener for Drag Me Down. Can I toss a theory at you and you can tell me what you think of it? Yes. It's funny to me that this is their album that feels most indebted to music that came from the UK. Other than when we talked about what makes a boy band on our very first episode, I think we might mention the Beatles for the very first time talking about this record. We will. And there's a ton of oasis here. There's a ton of just Britpop in general. And there's a lot of still the 80s stuff

that is more coming from the U.S. Coincidence, not a coincidence, do you hear more Brits on this thing than any other One Direction album? I suppose if we're doing the math that the answer to that is yes, but I also hear, I mean, listen, can we just celebrate that finally

we don't have Ed Sheeran on here? I mean, at least we don't have that Brit on here. A really good friend of mine texted me today asking a question about 18 because she was like, you guys have to talk about this. That's my favorite One Direction song. But I don't understand why they talk about being on the playground because who's on the playground when they're 18?

This makes no sense. And I was like, I'm so sorry to break it to you, but I'm just going to like be totally cruel to Ed Shear and throughout this entire series, even though 18 is a song that I do actually like. But yes, Ed is not here anymore. Ed's not here. There are lots of influences on this album, but in its own way, I still feel like one of the reasons I really enjoy this album is they've buried a lot of those influences. There's still a few songs where you're like, come on, man.

I mean, you know, let's, walking in the wind. Harry, this is Paul Simon's Diamonds on the Souls of Her Shoes. People say she's crazy. You got diamonds on the soul of her shoe. It just is. Yikes. And I love it. And I'm glad that he's, of course, every songwriter ever has their influences that they,

and young songwriters in particular will write songs that sound a lot like their influences. And it feels like that's what's happening here. It feels like this is honing his craft. I just wish it wasn't the fifth album. It's a nice song, but it's Paul Simon's Diamonds on the Souls of Her Shoes. And he's said as much. Yeah, the baseline of that song also sounds like, oh, what a night. Oh, nice.

The intro to oh, what a night. In terms of honing the craft, though, and I think mostly it works very well. It's one of the areas in which I think they take a real step forward. Harry in particular has found a way to do a different version of putting a lot of words into a song that is not the Ed Shearron version. And because there's that line and walking in the wind That's a necessity for apologies Between you and me, baby there is none The necessity for apologies between you and me

Baby there is That's not my favorite moment of that My favorite moments of that Happen on Olivia and actually in the bridge In Hey Angel Is another example of that That I think is great But it is funny that we started off

having a lot of issues with the Ed songs being just so pumped full of words in a way that didn't feel authentic to one direction. I do think one of the ways in which you see their development is they've found their own love of wordplay. I think Harry in particular. Well, there's a lot of wordplay on Olivia. Say what you're feeling and say it now. Because I got the feeling you're walking out.

And time is irrelevant when I've now. And there's also a lot of strings on Olivia. And to your point earlier about influences, here's where we talk about the Beatles, because these strings were done at Abbey Road. It's got some mix of Penny Lane and little help from my friends all over it. What are they saying at the beginning?

Could you pick it out? I think they're just talking about, it sounded like they're rehearsing and they're talking about when people are going to come in, it sounds just sort of like studio chatter. Yeah, at the beginning and the end. But I mean, Benetta said Olivia was Harry's genius.

And it's a brilliant song. It really, really, really is a brilliant song. I absolutely love it. And yeah, that the lyrics having an awareness of what the words sound like coming out of one's mouth. Like, I've been idolizing the light in your eyes, Olivia. I live for you, I long for you, Olivia.

Like, they're tongue twisters and it's so cool. I live for you, I long for you. They're learning how to write a song. It's so cute. It's so adorable. I love them so much. Did you actually say that what a feeling is in the running for you? I love that song. Does it not sound like the America song, You Can Do Magic? Nathan, I say this with so much love.

I'm not sure how many One Direction fans. are super familiar with that song. I hear what you're saying, but I just, I don't know if it would have been. You're giving me a sick old guy burn right now. With just so much love in my heart. I don't think that One Direction fans know any of these songs.

Well, but that's probably part of it. And it doesn't completely eliminate the need for the conversation of musically, where is this stuff coming from? Where did they get these ideas? Were they all organic? Were they born out of little Nile Horan's brain or somewhere else? I'm just here to teach, Nor.

I'm just here to teach. Giving us a great musical education. Do you want the knowledge or not? I just think it needs to be entered into the record that maybe some of their fan base wouldn't have made the connection that you so wonderfully have made for us. But can I tell you what I love about this song? There's a sort of wall of sound effect that we've talked about in different contexts with them before. But like there's something to that song where it sounds just like big. and propulsive.

But actually, I think often what's happening there is that they do, um, like they do just like a gang vocal on the chorus where they're all singing at once. Yeah. And the wall of sound is their voices. That's America, baby. And then the instruments get to be like the little, um, top line that gives you all the accents and,

and all the character and all the texture. And I think that's awesome. Okay. How do you not think that song's just a total vibe? I, I do. No, I do. It just, it has a lot of the America, you can do magic vibes for me. But I enjoy the song.

It just doesn't, man, I was moved by if I could fly. I really was moved. So that one, that one, like really pulled at my heart in a way that, that I guess what a feeling doesn't. Now, where are you on, I want to write you a song? Not great. Really? Yeah. The ASMR.

scribbling of a pencil in the background. It's just into pain for the feeling that I get when you are gone. I want to write you a song. It's not, I don't know that Liam seems to really like it. This is a very personal song to Liam. As the biggest Liam stand that I know. So he doesn't get a writing credit on it, though. It's very important to him and he has some sort of relationship with the idea of it.

But he doesn't get a writing credit on it. I do think it's very funny that he says, this is a song about how I've always wanted to write someone, a song that's really meaningful. It's not that because I don't think I've done it yet, but it's about wanting to do it. Right. It's the kind of song I've always wanted to write for somebody.

And the funny thing about it is I've never actually managed to write that song yet that I haven't really thought, yeah, this is the song that I'd have written for someone. Right. So it's like, this song did not accomplish the goal, but I still like where it's going. Yeah. It's, spoiler alert, if I have to cut something, that's what I'm cutting. Really? Yeah. You've already spoiled the rest of this podcast. I will tell you this. Wolves is a good song. The chorus is massively underrated.

Nile on the pre-course sounds a lot like Bieber, but this thing is a hidden gym. for me. I ain't for the baiting. Ain't enough for to take it. You got the whole shaking. I really like wolves. Thank God. I thought you were going to cut wolves.

And we were about to duel. No. We're still on good songs. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Okay. This is the beauty of this album is we really have a hard time

picking out the best ones. And it is definitely hard to take them out back and shoot them like old yellow. Like you can't. It's hard to make that decision. Shoot him like a snail donkey hybrid. Like a snail donkey.

Yeah. Can't have those things run around. What if they procreate? Wolves, I just, I love the chorus of this song. Absolutely. 100% Lutely right there with you on this. Mr. Nile Horan is so absolutely in his bag writing-wise on this album. And I think it stays underrated somehow because all he wants to do is just have like a good

fast time. Yeah. Harry on some level wants to move you, wants you to feel something, wants to either be super cheeky or super compelling and thoughtful. Nile just wants to have so much fun. Yes. And maybe that doesn't seem as big and important. But his songs, which are never enough, temporary fix and wolves, are so good.

I agree. We're starting to see why the solo career is going to do way back. better than anybody thought. Nora, there's a song that is sitting right there that we haven't even spoken about yet. And I know why we haven't spoken about it. We'll get to it. Because we know we're going to talk about it later.

Yeah, because we know we're going to talk about it. All right, we'll wait. We'll wait. For everybody, like, why aren't they talking about perfect? We will talk about perfect. Don't worry, we'll talk about perfect. There's some other nice songs on here. Love you Goodbye. The inevitability that everything good comes to an end feels very, you know,

apropos for the moment. I love that Louis hits the high note in the bridge. Like it's, again, another great Louis moment on this album. I mean, never enough is not up there for me, but the Liam High come-ons are cool, and Nile wrote it. It's pretty fun. I love that song.

Yeah, I just think it's a blast. It's not top-top cream of the crop on this album for me either, but I think it's just an absolute blast. It's not filler for me. End of the day, same thing. I mean, I think these were maybe two different songs. Love can be frightening for sure.

That they just sort of stitched together and made one with the tempo changes and stuff? Yeah, but I, I think that's really cool because how many times have we talked about, okay, a lot of these songs are three minutes or less. And they don't always, there are a lot of really short bridges in One Direction songs. We talked about that concept a lot with Taylor Swift often pushing herself to make sure that she felt like there's enough song in every song. And sometimes I think you could criticize earlier One Direction songs for really not having all that much song. It's a really good hook and some other stuff to fill it in.

that song's got a lot of song Yeah, it has a lot of song The chorus felt like a hat tip to the queer community In ways that they hadn't done As overtly before Maybe I don't have that right But I like-

No, I think that's right Because I do think This is the era for that, right? Particularly because There's the I mentioned it earlier In the Drag Me Down video Just at one point

Harry's drinking a coffee with the robot, but he has the mug that has like a big rainbow on it. Harry sometimes seems to pull a lot of the, you know, the halo for that. But this does feel like sort of a cross-band thing, that they understood their audience really well and that they were willing to actually put that into words, I think, is this, that makes this song special, I think. Yeah, I mean, the audience deserves a lot of credit for it too, right? because there were big fan groups that put in a lot of work to host meetups at their shows and form a community,

make that fandom a really wonderful space for a lot of people. So the boys deserve credit for it. Harry gets a lot of the halo, but he also, not that the others didn't, but he did a lot of the work. He's certainly been out front in a lot of ways. But the fan base deserves credit for that, too, I think. Well, I think I sang the praises of temporary fix. It obviously has the sex on fire. It has some of the Everybody Talks by Neon Trees.

It's still just such great Nile work. You made a case for AM. This is the only song on the album We're All Four get writing credit. They also use the phrase talking out of our asses, which I think is the first time they actually use something that resembles a swear word. I mean, they, do I have that wrong?

I think that's right. It just doesn't even sound like a... So much of the joy of this album is the fact that it sounds like... A lot of it sounds like stuff you would sing at 3 o'clock in the morning... Right. ...in a piano bar, just being really silly with your best friends. Right. And maybe that's a cleaned up image of what was actually going on in their relationships with each other.

and at the time. But that's what, if you're a fan that's just wanting to still be a part of this thing while you can, like that's a pretty nice gift to the fans to sort of put that front and center. And there's something about that line that I think just captures that.

Why did they call this made in the AM? Well, so there, is the pun or whatever you want to call it with AM, seeming like it could mean after Malick. But they also made it in the AM, right? Like, these guys did a lot of the work at four o'clock in the morning. Yeah. Liam, actually, I think on I want to write you a song,

recorded the vocal at four o'clock in the morning and sounded, he was really tired and his throat was kind of sore. They ended up liking it. But his voice was just super raspy relative to what it would normally sound like. So it is not an exaggeration that a lot of what they would do to make this album was happening in the wee hours of the morning.

Okay. Well, it just seemed like maybe Maybe there was a slightly more... But do you think that they meant for it to be made in the morning or for you to actually say made in the a.m? I think they must have meant made in the AM because that's what they say on the song. That's kind of what the band basis is gravitated to. Yeah. Okay. Well, and also, you know, won't you stay till the a.m. Yes.

Yes. Yes. The line on the song. Won't you stay to the... Agree. Well, we've talked through lots of these songs that we like. and you sort of tipped your hat onto what you would cut. What would you cut?

I want to write you a song as my cut. You really would. You really would. I really would. I just found long way down to be just meh. It's the only one where I was like, it's meh. And it doesn't stick with me. It's not something that I feel like I need to listen through to. There's something on,

I want to write you a song. There's just a sweetness to it that I enjoyed. And maybe it's the ASMR shit in the background that keeps me going. But I don't feel like I need to kill that one. So I do like a couple of things about long way down. I like that a lot of the instrumentation it goes up and then it goes down. You climb up to the top and then you go down and it's what the song is about. And I think that's cool. Right. I also love that apparently John Ryan, when they were recording the vocals for this song, told Nile to sound like Springsteen. And Nile was just so deeply tickled by this idea.

And there's an interview where he talks about it. He just is like, he told me to sound like the boss. And he thinks it is just the greatest thing. And apparently they told him that he kind of got it, which might have been throwing the guy a bone. But that backstory sort of charms me enough that I'm in. into the song. Well, this is definitely the hardest album to pick something to shoot, but the category is what we would have cut and we have to make a decision. So for me, it's long way down. For you,

it's, I want to write you a song, ignoring the sort of beetlesness of it. Who's their most important collaborator? Okay. You're going to surprise me here. Yeah, I think I might. Unless, whenever I think I'm going to surprise you, we like are in a secret mind meld. And I just don't know. So we'll find out. But I think their most important collaborator on this album, particularly because we talked earlier about how the core team has kind of been established. The core songwriting team and the fact that the guys are going to write some stuff together,

contribute on some stuff on their own. Like that is all static for the most part, at least in terms of progressing from four to made in the AM. Yes. Something that really changes. is, ratchets up, I should say, is that this album to me is one where the fact that it is made with a lot of instruments as opposed to a lot of computers really comes through. And Gavin Greenaway is a guy who's credited as a conductor on the album.

And he's also credited as a performer for leading the instrumentalists on, hey, Angel. Infinity and Olivia. Three songs that I like very much. And so using him both for his specific contributions, but also a little bit as a stand-in for just the fact that there are a ton of musicians playing on this and contributing to a lot of different songs in a lot of different ways, he is my most important collaborator. I like it.

Well done. Good job by you, because I was really in the more boring, but I think important foundational part. I just imagine, we now know this to be true, loads of chaos in 2015. Just chaos everywhere. And uncertainty and anxiety rearing its head

through all the members of the band. And in those very choppy seas, you generally need a leader who is going to stay even keeled. and relatively dispassionate and keep moving ahead. And to me, it feels like Julian Bonetta, John Ryan, and Jamie Scott were that even keeled boat that sailed through the tumult in the seas and really gave these boys a voice.

They're not boys anymore. The young men gave these young men a voice in a moment in which a lot of other people were speaking for them. Yeah, I like that. I think also for what it's worth. Jamie Scott really is part of the squad. And I don't know that I felt like I did a good enough job of crediting him on earlier albums just because Julian Bonetta and John Ryan were a team of two initially. But he was the one who was not a member of that initial two-person team who seemed like he really, really stuck with them as a collaborator and a songwriter.

So I'm into that. I would also add that they sort of had one out. outside source who helped them funnel their voices into the public ear, I suppose, in a way that felt effective and kind, who is James Gordon, who they have a long history with. And I think becomes, actually, there was a split second where I thought about making him the most important collaborator. Sure. Just because I think it was a real comfort that they had someone who they could go do big interviews with and promote their stuff, who got them, had an established relationship with them. And you can hear, you know, he asked them about Zane. He asked them what's going on.

He makes jokes about, can I join the band now? I know where, I know where you're... Did you ever think, oh, hang on, we know that. Is there any, like, you need to be a British guy. I mean, he's a nice blue suit. You know, voice of an angel, dances his life. Did you ever think? Did you think about about it. Did it cross your minds? No.

But there's a compassion to it that's not always... It's very fatherly, yeah. Yeah, and there are other examples of that with on other shows to varying degrees of fault with the hosts that are not like that. Like, there's one appearance where they go on Ellen. And, like, it's fine. It's pretty funny. But she's asking a lot about.

Zane. And at one point, Harry just goes like, you could cut the tension in here with a knife. Have you talked to him since he's been gone? No. Yeah, a couple times. Yeah. He's doing okay? Yeah, he's good. Are you lying? No, genuinely. So why are you laughing then? Because

you could cut the tension in him. Well, they're just questions. Let's make some jokes. And the start of Ellen's downfall. Yeah, it was I will say there were some other things that came of that appearance that were pretty funny. So I'm not saying it was necessarily bad television. But I do think that it was nice for them to have an outlet like that where they felt comfortable.

Well, what was P. Carey then? Did it come from one of those performances? All right. So I absolutely flip over Olivia in general. And for that specific reason that I love how he kind of writes in the tongue twisters. and to me that's a real step forward. But I can't let this category pass without acknowledging one of my favorite Harry Stiles moments of all time.

It is not really a musical event, but in 2015, the year that this album comes out, Harry goes to a Fleetwood Mac show in London, and he brought Stevie Nix a carrot cake that he'd either baked or at least piped frosting. of her name onto. And that is just one of my favorite things that's ever happened in the history of the universe. Well, it really starts a lovely friendship.

Truly a lovely friendship. Is musical. I mean, Harry's going to bring Stevie Nix out on stage on several occasions, and they're going to sing landslide together. But how else? I mean, baked goods is how you start a friendship. The South knows that.

And apparently, the guy who stepped out of a bakery and into stardom never forgot what it takes to lock down a friendship. Good job by you, Harry. Where are you on carrot cake? You know, I'm okay with it. The spice, I'm fine with. I mean, if you brought me a homemade carrot cake as a piece offering, I would absolutely consume it. Why do we need a piece offering? Because we disagree on almost every point in these pies.

Podcasts. It's over the I want to write you a song, Feud of 2022. As everyone knows. Look, I agree with you. That's a great peak hair. For me, I just can't stop looking at the hair. It's just 90s Eddie Vedder, Pearl Jam. It's way too much hair.

It's so long. It's so unkempt. He doesn't really look great with it. But watching him must with it and try to, he's constantly, it's just always in the way. It's like he consciously changed. chose to have this annoying thing on his head that he didn't really know how to deal with. And yet the sort of the sweetness and wonderful naivete of Harry Styles is that he still can't exactly figure out what is this thing that keeps bothering him.

And the answer is, Harry, it's the hair. And I'm glad it's going to disappear at some point. But man, it's like it's an animal. It's like a donkey made it with a snail and took up shop on his head. And he still hasn't figured out what's going on. I think it's because Harry secretly wants to be a rock star more than more than he wants to be a heartthrob. Because he really doesn't look great with it. And it, I mean, you know, all things are relative.

But he's constantly fussing with it. It seems like it gets greasy. And it's just a little silly. Yeah. And I sometimes I look at it and I wonder if he was almost like, I need to get the swooning to calm down just a tiny bit. Don't really think it worked. He was rebelling. You know that it is central to the way in which I see the world

that if anyone makes a substantial decision with their hair, I really think there must be a lot behind it. Yeah, no, bangs are always a thing for you. Anytime anybody goes bangs, Nora immediately is on to the scent. This is like as close to as Harry ever came to getting bangs. This was Harry's bangs. Okay, I don't mind that he was, I mean, it was either the tattoos or the hair. but that to me was a big peak-hary moment.

Peek-Louis, I mean, is it that he becomes a father? Or is it the Twitter feud with Zane? So I think in the truest sense of what is the peak-Louis action, by his own admission, he just cannot hold his tongue. Yeah, yeah. So definitely the Twitter feud with Zane, which frankly, Louis Stark, because Zane's producer tweets a photo of the two of them using an old Mac photo booth filter that he's right is a little corny.

Louis started it. Louis tweets about how lame that is and then the producer comes back at him and accuses him of needing audit tune and then Zane gets involved and it's just becomes a whole thing. Remember when you had a life and stopped making bitchy comments about mine? Right. And this is one of the things where I think, James Corden ends up being helpful because he asks about it and Louis says I have difficulty holding my tongue

You're on good terms Yeah I mean you know it was a thing on Twitter But have you know I know I've never been one I've never been very good at biting me tongue Maybe I get it off my mom Twitter's not always the greatest space for that But yeah that's

That is sort of the most Louis thing That happens but Love You Goodbye is also a really personal song to him, which I think is sort of fitting because it would be hard to rank them in this way, and I don't think that we should engage with that exercise. But if you were to sort of analyze which members of One Direction have the strongest need to process their feel, well, no, that's not what I was going to say. I was going to say process their feelings.

through the concept of physical intimacy. Yes. Louis's up there. Yeah. Lou is pretty high on that list. I'm not sure anyone in this band is low on the list, though. But Louis high on the list. Yeah.

I think there's not a lot of underperformers when it comes to Horandoggery, as it were. Chronically, maybe Nile, although temporary fix. You call my attention. You were looking to me first. that I can see you waking up in my t-shirt. That's what I'm saying. Well, speaking of, yeah, Darby.

Look, I think Louis on this album, you can't understand Louis until you hear this album for me because of the songwriting, because looking back, the direction that he has pointed one direction, and maybe this is his sort of elder statesman, even though Liam always sort of was the father, we'll get to Liam in a second.

I do think that this album reflects very kindly on the impact that Louis had on this group, even if it wasn't always grabbing the microphone and making you go, wow, finally on this album, there are moments where I hear Louis grab the microphone and I go, wow. Yeah, and I think that's the thing that grabs you the most because it is that progression.

It's something that where there's been changing, over time and his ability to do that. Where he's been consistent is as one of the core songwriters. And he's also, he writes on perfect with Harry. End of the day, long way down. What a feeling, history. Right. Which they all do.

And love you goodbye. Which, by the way, does that sound like apologize to you? The way you look, I know you didn't come to apologize. Yeah, there's Teter all over that thing. Yeah. There's Teter all over these albums. It's fine.

I love Ryan Tudder. I'm kind of into it because when I hear something as Apologize, I kind of hear it mashed up with Apologized because Taylor did it. So it almost makes me into it.

All right. That's fine. Look, if we're going to talk about vocals, though, we got to get to my peak, Liam, because my peak Liam is Liam stepping in to pick up Zane's vocals.

I mean, he really did it. And I miss Zane, but this album does not suffer from lack of high parts. Harry doing the drag me down high parts, and then Liam just stepping in all over subtly and not in a way

that is sort of showy and overly dramatic, but he carries a lot of water here. Girl, I hope you're sure What you're looking for Because I'm not good And make it promise Totally.

My peak Liam is a vocal moment as well It's not necessarily So much a note As it is a screech On never enough When he does that It's never, it's never, it's never, It's never, it's never.

Yes. Kelly Clarkson! No, Gally Clarkson! He has some really good screeches on this album. He's, you know, the high, yeah, the high come-ons are just great on never enough. And they just set him loose. I mean, there must have been some substance involved in some of these choices that night. I'm just saying. I have no comment. He was really on Fuego that night. On Fuego, indeed. I mean, maybe the reason that on I want to write you a song when they recorded it at 4 in the

morning, his voice was hurting was because he'd been. screeching. Yeah. Well, that's probably it. But speaking of never enough, for me, that's the part of Peak Nile. He is really turning into a writer here. And the seeds of his solo career are right in front of you, and I think a lot of us in the moment

missed it and didn't ascribe as much talent to the young lad, probably because his personality, speaking of Carpool Carrier, just overwhelms everything. I love that he sat in the front seat. He's just so fun.

Like, he of all of them, loved being in one direction. He loved being a star. He loved having fans. Like, he was made for this. And even in that episode, like, Louis's sitting next to Harry, probably, like, worried about what people

are going to say that he's in a car next to Harry. He's looking out the window a little bit. Harry is just being Harry in the middle. Liam's in the back. Harry's playing with hair. Yeah, Liam's making sure everybody has the seatbelt on and chiming in. But Niles in the front just so fired up. He's totally I-Fing the camera the whole time.

It's great. He's just a chatterbox. He's just a total chatterbox. And it's so funny because it's, in some ways, it is the exact same guy who didn't exactly knock it out of the park with his X-Factor audition. But Katie Perry was just so deeply charmed by his presence that it was like, yes, more of whatever's going on here, just more of it. She got peer pressured into letting him through,

but some of the other judges had a sense. Either way, we know that that serendipity of all those guys getting through is what made this band, the band that they are, now they're only four and Zane's gone. Do we do peak Zane when Zane's not in the band? Well, so hold on. We can't move off of Nile quite so quickly because I do want to talk about never enough.

Okay. Because it's not, I didn't put it in my group of favorite songs, but I still want to give it its flowers because I just think it is so much fun. I think the sort of acapella, like duwopi thing to it is so cute. The horns are awesome. And the thing that it just brings up for me is like, what other band could do this song? The only thing I came up with was Kiss. Kiss. Don't you think Kiss could somehow just like do this?

This is a weird question. It's weird. It makes me feel weird because I've never really thought about the band others covering the band songs because I'm always so focused on how the band is covering other people's songs. Kiss would be great doing this. Queen could do this song. Yeah, it has to be like a high comfort with ridiculousness. Bobby McFerrin could do this song.

Maybe. Fun to do this song. Maybe. I'm not sure. Really? Yes, but this song kind of would not be that good in the wrong hands because it has to have, it has so much spirit. And if you're not doing the scream, if you can't sort of like find a way to do a vocal that milks, the silliness that matches with the horns just blaring

and the confidence it takes to do this song and just be like, okay, we are a big mainstream pop sort of act, and we're just going to put this song on our record, and it's going to be pretty great. Like, I really think that that is harder than initially meets the ear, and there's a real theme of that denial. Greta Van Fleet could do this song. Ew.

Ew. What a kid a ew for that? I'm not into the Greta van plate version of Never Enough. All right. Well, you asked if Kiss can do it. This is why I'm going to have to bring you a carrot cake. Yeah, exactly. Three now. I got an ew. What if I said that to your carrot cake? Ew. I like carrot cake. I had a karaoke birthday party where there was a carrot cake several years ago. And it was a little controversial, but I was.

into it. Well, it's the whole thing. We're fine with carrot cakes. It certainly made things happen. Are we doing peak zane or not? Yeah, I think we got to do peak zane. Okay. And I think the reason that we have to do peak zane is that there's a real conversation about Zane leaving the band, why, if they're going to suffer without him, how he's going to do out there on his own. They kind of go back and forth, right? Like there's the thing with Louis on Twitter. Zane, when they put out... People are taking sides. Let's be clear. And when they put out, drag me down.

Zane does kind of take the high road on that. He tweets something out, like, love the single guys. But it's a big topic. Meanwhile, he's working on music. And in January of 2016, so a few months after Maiden Neand comes out, he releases Pillow Talk as the first single. The music video eventually comes with Gigi Hed, who he's now dating.

But the song itself debuts at number one on the Billboard Hot 100, which One Direction had not done. No. And at this point, he's given his first interviews saying that he didn't like the music. He had trepidation about staying in the band or even being in the band kind of from the beginning. There have been all the back and forth. And what's important about including this to me is that in this conversation about if Zane should have left, if there's blame to be assigned, what the future is for everybody involved. The music that he's making supports his argument for not wanting to have been there anymore.

Yeah. Because it's a good song and it does really, really well. Yeah. Seemed to always have an awareness that this was not for him. And I think some of the comments when he left the band were hurtful in the way that they were sort of packaged into sound bites and made to be sort of Twitter consumable. But when you really read the depth and breadth of what he's saying, he's not throwing tons of shade on the One Direction music. He's just saying it wasn't for me. And he's being honest about the way that a lot of this music was created,

which is that they were brought songs before they really got into the writing process. We heard it on the unreleased, you know, the YouTube clip of I love KFC, right? Chicken, chicken, like that song was brought to them basically pre-written and they worked on some words together. And for him, if the foundations of that song aren't what he is into, he's stuck. So he knew that all along, and that was part of what clearly was making this hard. I don't think that's the only reason he left the band. This is a young man who was dealing with a lot of emotional distress and a lot of the things tied to the burnout that didn't hinder his love of music, but certainly hindered his love of the machine. But look, there's no denying that this is a great song, and it was fun to see someone in their element making something that felt like his own.

And it's the first time that we really got to hear directly from a single member of the band about what music was actually their own. Yeah. I think there in some of the things that he said, it's kind of like, well, of course you're entitled to your opinion and there's nothing deeply offensive in there. But I do think that when he says stuff, like, you know, that's not music that I would listen to. Would you listen to one direction at a party with your girl? I wouldn't. To me, that's not an insult. That's me as a 22-year-old man.

Yeah. You're being dismissive of the young female fan base, right? Which is sort of like a cardinal sin in that universe. Sure. And, you know, it's no, it's no massive crime. I also think that saying that in an interview and then saying, well, what? Why would you be upset with me is a little bit? Like, okay, come on, man.

Zane also, you know, like we've talked about with Louis, Zane, funnily enough, being much more of a shy personality, still has this little tendency to occasionally put his foot in his mouth. He's had some weird interviews over the years. So there's maybe a little bit of that going on too. So there are some things that he said that I can understand why they hurt people's feelings. However, I do think that the music that he made right off the bat made a pretty compelling argument for his point of view, not just because it was sort of more of a sound that he was comfortable with or excited about,

but also because that sound, I mean, in that interview in The Fader, which was where he said all that stuff about not liking their music, I believe that article defines him as like the West's most prominent Muslim celebrity. And I think defines him that way accurately. At the point in time that we're talking about right now, just when Pillow Talk comes out, his record isn't out yet, but it's coming. And it has acknowledgments of that that are really, really cool. Yeah. So he says a lot of stuff.

and I understand why some of it upset people, at least initially he goes out and does the stuff that he said that he was going to do and that wanting to do was part of why he wanted to get out of there. So I do think that that's sort of important to have on the record. Yeah. Look, Timberlake, his first solo single was like, I love you. It peaked at number 11 in the U.S. on the Billboard Hot 100, number two on the UK singles chart.

Which is to say, it did not. do as well as this song did. And there's something about what follows that will break down as we get further into this journey and why maybe it didn't launch the same solo career, at least not yet, that Timberlake has had. But he is, there is something about the authenticity of this man that is fascinating to me. And he really sort of was a little bit of a whistleblower on some of the dark parts of this machine that was one direction. Yeah. And so what happened on March 25th of this year was that one year exactly after he left the band, he releases mind of mine, his debut solo album, which...

Hashtag real music. Hashtack real music. You make the comparison with Timberlake. I don't think that Zane has maintained the type of... career that Timberlake has. That album was a strong first entry. To the extent that Zane has not necessarily had the solo career that maybe it seemed at one point like he could have, I don't think it's because he got off on the wrong foot, you know? He really didn't.

And I think that's a question as to why he didn't maintain it is one that we'll dive into. Right. We'll find time to talk more about that album and the rest of Zane's solo work another time. But that was the big event. But first, but first, Nora. It's time.

Are any of these songs about Taylor Swift? Yes! Yes! Finally! Are you looking for someone to write your breakup songs about, Nathan? Maybe. Maybe I'm perfect. Looking for someone to write your breakup songs about. Baby I'm perfect.

What a song. What a song. What a vibe. It has the style intro. I might never be night and shot in armor. It has the style everything. I mean, first of all, lyrically, it's the Pena Colada song.

If you like Pina, but everything else. Definitely. Lyrically, it's like the international. Fuck Boys anthem. Whoa! What? Look, this

is a really good song. You're not getting flowers. You don't get to meet the parents. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's a terrific song. And I appreciate that Harry and Louis didn't totally,

they didn't lie about this, right? Yeah. Like, they want to keep the song. They're actually writing sophisticated enough songs now that they could be interpreted in many different ways as opposed to the let's hump songs from the first couple of albums. And so I appreciate that they at least endeavor to not spoil it for someone who's filling that song with their own feelings and ideas about what it actually means. But this song is about Taylor Swift. It

borrows from style. It is a absolute sort of reply hitting the ball to the other side of the net from the serve that was style. How great of a response is this? So What's

on the revenge scale? It doesn't really, so here's how it gets his revenge is by not asking for revenge, right? Like, because it has that sophisticated quality where it's not just totally casting blame. It's just being like, all right, not everything.

Like, Harry talks about this song in that billboard interview. And he's so funny because it seems like he's sort of choosing his words carefully, but at the same time, he can't help but be honest about it. And he's like pausing and erring and umming between every word. But he just goes, it's a song about a relationship and it's a love song, sort of. but it's not really romantic long pause. It's not like Romeo and Juliet. It's cool because it's obviously a love song,

but it's not that romantic. It's not like a Romeo Juliet type. Which, oh! Oh, who writes about Romeo and Juliet, Harry? I don't know. It's never occurred to me before. So I think in the sense that it gets its revenge. It's sort of like, was this really ever the relationship that the other person

might have thought it was? And did we have more of an understanding of this not being particularly serious or destined for love and marriage as it could have been made to seem like it would have? I really appreciate the self-awareness and vulnerability of the breakdown on the bridge where he effectively takes responsibility for what is hard to be with Harry Stiles. Yes. But I don't think that this song is super like mopey about, you know, oh, it's so hard to be with Harry Styles.

It's sort of like, it may not work out, but it might be fun. See now. Listen to you. Well, because you think in real life it was not fun. but I think in the world of the song, it might be slightly different. Yeah. How they actually wrote this and what was the coaching and guidance

from Harry to some of the other songwriters and, you know, is a novel yet to be written. But we know. Yeah. We know the answer. Particularly just because the use of style in this song is very smart. It's, you know, I don't, I'm not going to say that it rises to the level of ethering someone by using their own sound as, say, dear John.

But you and I are on record as thinking that that's a pretty neat trick. And I think they get points for that here as well. And I say they because I don't know if that's Harry. I mean, we were talking about those Ellen interviews. Harry doesn't always want to talk about this, right? Now, he might be much more comfortable talking about it in the music than talking about it on television. but there's an appearance where they're on Ellen and they're playing Never Have I Ever

And one of the questions is Never Have I Ever written a song about me And at first Harry holds up the card that says never And everyone in the audience is just like, No way. Bullshit. Okay, never have I ever had someone write a song about me? We're not going to play if you're going to lie. And then later there's a question about

like Never Have I Ever Been with someone twice my age And Harry's just like, I'm not having fun, guys. This isn't fun. We're... Just doing the math. We're all having fun. I'm not having fun. It's a great song.

It is one of the songs that is the most played ever from this band. I think lyrically, it is wonderful. I think two albums ago, they would have screwed this song. sung up. It would have been too schmaltzy. There'd be a lyric in there that really sucks. That sort of breakdown would have been, I don't know, a little too subservient to the like teenage girl mass instead of just like writing a meaningful song. This is a really good song and it deserves the flowers that it gets. I need to get you on record about something. Okay. Oh boy. we have to answer what the best breakup song or best song about One Direction or a One Direction

member is because we've done this with Taylor, which really, so we talked about Zane's songs a little bit. His song before is sometimes read as about his time in One Direction and after. And I like that song quite a bit. I really think this question comes down to. style versus out of the woods. And I do believe I know where you stand on this, but I need you to say it. Style versus out of the woods?

Yeah. It's out of the woods. Yeah, see, I'm just not, I'm, I think it's style for me. I mean, I love style. I absolutely love style. I just have a sort of very unique attachment to Out of the Woods. I know. It's okay.

It's a fourth carrot cake. Yeah, we don't even need to break carrot cake over that. We can have both. We can have carrot cake. and chocolate on this one. Okay. That sounds good. That metaphor totally didn't work, but it's all good. We'll keep, let's keep, we're on hour eight of this podcast.

Let's keep jamming. We know what happened on March 25th, which is that Zane released a solo album, and this is really where this date starts to take hold. It should not be overlooked that I think in this year 2016, that Louis' mother is diagnosed and sick, and that's going to have something as there to do with this date.

But this date really starts the conspiracy theory around March 25th, doesn't it? Yep. Yep, yep, yep. So who won the album?

This was really hard for me. It was impossible for me. Yeah. Maybe we all won. Are we all winners? That's what I was going to say. Okay, we can't totally chicken out. We almost chickened out of

best song. We kind of did. We can't chicken out of this. Is it Harry? Because is the obvious answer the right one? And it's Harry because he gets the narrative with Perfect, which I think comes off pretty well. And I think his songwriting has taken off in a big way.

In my heart, I almost want to make the argument for Nile. Yes, that's what I was going to do. Because of how much I love his songwriting here. Yeah. It's just that it is. subtle. And I think the real answer might be hairy. But I want to hear the case for Nile because I kind of feel that. But I don't know that it's, I think that might be a little too

much of an emotional pick as opposed to the real substance. My son dug up a video last night of when he was a baby crawling down a hall. And he was, my eldest daughter was filming. And he was, and he was racing, in quotes, my middle daughter, they're all like, you know, under the age of five. And my eldest daughter is holding the camera, filming as a daughter and son are sort of crawl racing down the hall. And my eldest daughter is saying, no, let him win to my middle daughter.

And she's like, but I want to win too. And what my eldest daughter says is, okay, we all can win. And that's how I feel about who won the album. The case for Nile would be that this is really a springboard to a solo career that nobody saw coming. And that he was able to use this last go-round. I mean, he'd been developing it through time. I love the, you go back and look at the videos of them teaching him guitar. Like, he was always a student of this craft because he wanted it so badly.

And I just think you could say that he won the album because a number of the songs. You made the case yourself in the way that you sang from the rooftops about a few of the songs that he wrote. But for me, I really think in this moment of chaos, frankly, an enormous amount of pressure, probably more pressure than the follow-up album, the second one. An enormous amount of pressure, so much chaos that we don't understand behind the scenes. At this point, their own nerves are frayed, their own anxieties are flaring. They delivered this. And this is one of the best pieces of work that they put out, as you said at the top. Can I tell you why you're absolutely right?

And Nile totally won this album. Yes. Because I forgot to give you what is actually my peak Nile because I was so excited to talk about Never Enough. Okay. I'm going to invoke James Corden again for the 90th time. Wow. He's getting a lot of love here. They went on his show and they played tattoo roulette.

Right. And maybe this was real. maybe this wasn't, but everyone was going to pick a box and all of the four remaining guys plus James Gordon, all five of them were going to pick a box, four of them inside the box were going to have the word safe. One of them was going to have the word tattoo. And the person who got the box that said tattoo was going to get a tattoo on the show. Right. And Nile, at this point, the only member of one direction who doesn't have any tattoos is so nervous. about this.

And it gets down to a, so they all open the boxes one by one. And, like, Liam opens his first and he's safe. And then Louis goes and he's safe. James Corden goes and he's safe. And so it's down to Harry and Nile. And Nile, like, Harry has to go give him a hug. At one point, James Corden's like, oh, my God, your hands are shaking. You can't know those face.

Right. Oh my God. I'm sorry, Nile, but honestly, in that, I have never felt more alive. And he is just so adorably terrified by this. Harry ends up having to get the tattoo, so it's okay. And Nile jumps up and down with delight at not having to get a tattoo. And it is just so precious and wonderful, and I love him so much. So there it is. Nile wins.

I rest my case. Well done. Is there a swoonie lyric on this album? Man, there's kind of a lot of them. I think I really might have to give it to, if you're looking for someone to write your breakup songs about, Baby I'm Perfect, because it's just awesome. I know, but it's not swoony.

It's not, but it's a weird kind of swoonie, but it's a little swoonie. Okay, fine. I'm not really the best judge of this. The one that I love, other than that, there's a bunch on this that I really love, but I just love the cadences on Olivia and I've been idolizing the leg in your eyes, Olivia. Yes. That's really it for me. I think you're picking the best lyrics, not the swooniest. You've been duped.

Talent makes me swoon, Nathan. Fair enough. I have trouble with shittiest lyric. They've figured it out. They've figured out how to polish this stuff to make it not so shmoo. maltsy and just blah. Like, I, we're just swimming around in our glasses and talking out of our asses is a little bit, but it's kind of cute. Ah, but it's great. It's so great.

That's what I'm saying. I think the only thing that I could really hone in on was the song that I wanted to cut from a long way down. We had a mountain, but took it for granted. We had a spaceship, but we couldn't land it. We found an island, but we got stranded. We had it all, yeah. Who could have planned?

land it. We had a mountain. We had a spaceship. We couldn't land. What do you mean? We had a mountain, but took it for granted. That's the only part. I'm like,

You climb to the mountaintop, but you take for granted how far you've climbed. Okay. Like I said. I will give it to you. I had trouble. Are there any lyrics on this, on this album that you really love,

that you want to shout out? No. All right, fine. I was trying to get you to do it because I am going to give my own entry into lyrics that I do not like on this album. And it is just one very specific thing. Okay.

Other than the fact that, that, um, yet again, uh, on love you goodbye, they are just incapable of not including the phrase give it to me on songs. But that's not it. That's not it. I think we need to ban these boys from writing about boats. Oh. Because in I want to write you a song All of a sudden, it's just, I want to buy you a boat.

I want to build you as strong as you are free. Yeah, but. And then, and it, it doesn't work for me. Okay. And on drag me down. How am I on the other side of this argument? Yeah. And baby you're a boat.

Yeah. I got a river for a soul. And baby you're a boat. Baby, you're my only reason. I suppose the argument here is that the river keeps the boat afloat. Yes, they have lots of floating metaphors that use boats. I think they should take a break from the nautical nonsense. Maybe it's because Louis always worn so many stripes.

They felt like they needed to put a few boats in here. But I don't know. Well, I am fine if you have problems with some of the lyrics. I really had trouble finding it. You asked me my favorite lyric. It's probably the for your eyes only. And if I could fly, there's just something about that. But I think it's really just the melody and the tone of the voice and all that.

It's not like that's a lyric that no one's ever written before. I get tripped up by that with them too, though. Like, there's stuff on AM where I'll think that it's really the lyric that compels me. And then I'll listen to it a bunch and go like, there's just such sweetness to this melody on certain lines that it gets me. That's okay. That's their superpower. That's what happened to me. on this album. But in the best way, I went through this album and didn't find anything that I was like,

oh, that is so cringy. I wish that they, so hats off. We finally got a lyrical journey from up all night all the way through to Made in the A.m. There's this wonderful, continuous journey of those two album titles that in and of itself is a nice little sort of lyrical play. Here we are at the end and they have definitely found a way to take what was schmaltzy plastic pop into something that matters. And that's the wonderful journey of this band that is not over, is it, Nora? Absolutely not. But before we go, we got to do it. We got to give the album agreed. All right. We've really been all over the map on these things. So I'm very intrigued as the harshest greater in the duo.

What do you think of this album? It's really, I'm just going to give it an A. I'm going to break for him and just do it. Straight up? This is their best album. Wow. It's, it, I thought about an A minus. I thought you were going to say that four was your favorite,

but this is their best album? Four has my favorite songs on it. Okay. Yep. We've made a distinction between those two things. But this one is more consistent top to bottom. And as an album, the song crafting is in a place that I think it hasn't been before. And there's consistency here that I don't think that they've gotten to before. Again, and I, this is one of those things that I think about when we talk about and think about, you know, losing a member, right? I wonder if there are songs on four that I think have a little more heart.

And I love them in my heart just a tick more. But I also think that there are more that just don't quite hit the mark. So I think since we are grading the album, this is the best album and I give it the best grade. I agree with you, Nora. another carrot cake. I agree with you. I didn't give it an A. I gave it an A minus.

But I agree with you that this is their best album, start to finish. And I think that's probably a somewhat controversial take that you and I have because I think there's a lot of people who feel like it's four. We'll see.

But for me... And to those people, I say, very valid opinion. We have carrot cakes for you. We have carrot cakes for all of you. But we also, I think, when we just talk about album, that start to finish for me,

lyrically, melodically, song crafting instrumentally, the progression of each of these young men, RIP Zane from One Direction, this album has it. It's an A-minus for me. And particularly because some of the stuff that, like, we liked but didn't necessarily totally love. Like, I like clouds more than you do.

but we still like clouds, we get clouds. I like clouds quite a bit, but then it's just something about on this album, they're able to sort of take those concepts and then they become something like a hey angel that just improves on the form, right? And like there are those fourths in the harmonies

on the bridge of this song where it just goes to another place. And there's like just attention to it that's different. And there's so much cool stuff on that. this album. I just want to yell about it and scream about it forever. Me too. But we can only go so long. So we are through this catalog, Nora. What's next? It's unbelievable, Nathan. I can't believe all started with what makes you beautiful and now we're here. Are we done? We're finished. We're so not done. And what's next is what's next is what's next. Because we're going to get into what the guys did as solo artists because, I know,

Unfortunately, spoiler alert, they do break up after this. That's just a sad note to leave this episode on. But the happy note is that we will be back talking about our guy, Nile, next, I think. Right, Nathan? And that's why Nile won this album. We're going to make the connection and see where he goes from here. Is it going to be good? Is it going to suck?

Stay tuned. This has been every single album One Direction. I'm Nora Pinceotti. As always, he is Nathan Hubbard. We will be back on Thursday when we dive into the boys' solo careers, which is going to be really exciting. Thank you, as always, to the fabulous Kai McMullen for producing on this episode. And we'll talk to you guys soon.