Every Single Album - Mailbag and Song Draft | Every Single Album: One Direction

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

Nora and Nathan and joined by longtime One Direction fan Kate Halliwell to answer a few mailbag questions. They talk about whether or not they want any kind of One Direction reunion and what that would look like (10:26) and what songs the band will be known for 20 years from now (42:36). Then, Nora and Nathan draft their favorite One Direction songs and songs from the boys' solo careers (1:10:57). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Guest: Kate Halliwell Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up guys, Rachel Lindsay here, and I am teaming up with your favorite Ringer podcasters to deliver the Bravo drama and news that you've been craving on Morally Corrupt. It's the show about all things Bravo. From the Housewise to Summer House and everything in between, we'll be mentioning it all every week. Check it out on Spotify and the ringer.com. Hello, and welcome to every single album, One Direction, Mailbag, wrap-up, songdraft. podcast pod edition. I'm Nora Princeati. As always, I'm here with Nathan Hubbard.

But today we have an extra special guest who is Kate Hallowell. Kate, how are you doing? Thank you so much for joining us. Nathan. Nora. Sorry, that was my favorite, my best Nora impression. I love how you always say, Nathan, at the beginning of every pod. That's hysterical.

She was like way too eager. Yes. That was me doing that. As you can tell, I'm a loyal listener of this particular podcast. I've enjoyed every episode that I've listened. to date. Obviously, we're recording before I've had a chance to listen to all of them, so I'm eagerly anticipating the rest. But honored to be here. Can't wait to talk about One One Direction. Well, and Kate is here because Kate, if anybody does not know and does not follow

her work on the ringer and her excellent tweets, Kate is a huge fan of One Direction. Is that true? We go all the way back, man, all the way back to the embarrassing high school standum days. I generally think of you as like a boy band expert. A boy band scholar. That's what I was going to say. Thank you so much. A fine connoisseur of not just boy bands, but boy or girl bands. Yeah.

Fandem. A fandom expert, if you will. You also went to a Florence and the Machine show. So let's not pigeonhole. I did. You're right. I have a broad interest, but boy bands are our principal among them. Since we have now defined you in your interests,

How would you define your own boy band, girl band, Florence and the Machine expertise? And Kate, can you just tell us a little bit about your One Direction origin story? Oh, my goodness. So I would say, you know, I grew up in Indiana. And I would say my fandom history was never until I moved to L.A., like kind of concert focused. I've definitely become a concert person. And I guess we can talk about that more later. But it was very on.

didn't come to Indiana. Yeah. Yeah. And it also just like wasn't, my family just like didn't really go to shows. Like it just wasn't the way we grew up. And so a lot of my sort of interests and, and fandom related involvement was all online. So I definitely was part of kind of the early like Tumblr sort of one direction

fandom on there and then on Twitter and all of that. So I would say my one direction origin story was in high school. And actually recently Instagram did this thing where you can go back and see your first likes. Like the first post that you ever liked when you made your Instagram account and when I did this

and I was scrolling through like 2012 Kate incredibly scary stuff but I could literally pinpoint the exact day that I became a One Direction fan and they started appearing and I started following these fan accounts

and it turned out I was like a Zane girl for like a week like when they started like he was the one who hooked me and then I pivoted I pivoted ultimately I think Louis was my guy for like a long time. I really like the funny one.

Yeah. You know, still do. And then I've kind of like made my way throughout like the many years of my, I guess 10 years at this point if it was 2012 of One Direction fandom have really kind of jumped from guy to guy like depending on where I was in my life, like who my favorite was. Ultimately landed on Harry, obviously for anyone.

I think anyone listening probably knows already. I'm wearing my love on tour shirt. Oh yeah. But yeah. It was very much like an online centric fandom. in high school. I did take like a couple years off when like I didn't, I kind of just didn't grow out of them, but just they weren't like the biggest part of my, you know, life. Like, you know, when I went to college, things like that. And then they really hooked me back in at the end, like made in the

AM right before they broke up, of course. And then into like all the solo stuff was when I really, I really reinvested. So it's been a journey. It's been a journey. Have any of the non-Hary solo careers been meaningful to you? I mean, I know you guys are huge. Nile Heads couldn't agree more. I was so pleasantly surprised by his solo output. And I would have said, I loved Heartbreak Weather. I've not heard that pod yet. I know the people listening to this have,

but I would have said that that was my favorite one, but I actually just listened to your Flickr pod. And every song you played, I was like, oh, my God, that was so good. Oh, my God, that one was so good. Flickr's got bobs. It really does. It does. And it just,

him especially, I would say, and I think that's, that's many people's choice. But yeah, I, you know, I've, where do you end up on Zane?

Having started as a Zane girl now, looking at where we are. You know, I think these days it's, it's tough. But looking back, he has, like, parts of certain

One Direction songs. Like, I just always will be like, this Zane moment is my favorite, or like this high note or this bridge. Or like, I just think he has the highlight of so many songs.

But these days, it's tough, but help me understand. These days it's tough. Well, you know. The domestic dispute stuff aside, that kind of thing. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how's the play? But is it actually colored by that? Or is it colored by the music that followed mind to mine and the rest?

Or is it that he just doesn't give very much, right? Like, he doesn't give to you as a fan in the same way that Harry does, even in the same way that Nile does, even in the same way that Louis or kind of Liam, although Liam's not really out front all that much. But like the rest of them give in a way that totally. Totally. I think that's part of it.

And they're more available, you know, to fans. But yeah, also, like R&B is not so much my thing. I love Pillow Talk. It was great. And I liked a song with Taylor Swift, but I can't wait to hear you guys talk about on the miscellaneous pod that I'm sure is coming. But, yeah, other than that, like, his,

the music genre that he kind of chose to go into is not my face. So I think that's part of it as well. Got it. So the way that we're going to do this is we have a bunch of questions, a bunch of mailbag questions that we're going to go through. Kate's going to help us out with all of that stuff. Then Nathan and I are going to do battle in a song draft. Get ready.

Get ready. Kate. Having heard at least all of the One Direction album episodes, do you have any bones to pick with us? Do you want to call us out for any? that we just massively screwed up. I have a lot of friends that have been listening to this podcast, whether like in media or just like, you know, friends who listen to ring our pods.

And I've gotten so many texts about your podcasts because they knew that I was listening and they have also been listening. The biggest one was the anti-kiwi contingent. That's Nora. I got a lot of, got a lot of text about Kiwi, I will say. And listen, I was at the show where he played it three times. And you did say on the podcast, but I've been at that show,

it would have slapped and it would, you know, have been an iconic experience. And it was. You know, it was. So that was a bone to pick. I would say, Nathan wanted to cut

ever since New York from the first Harry Styles album, one of my personal favorites. What would you have cut? So you guys have come out this from a very scholarly stance, whereas I, as a fan, I'm like, I like the song,

I don't like this song. From the dining table, it's a skip for me. Oh my God. Like, is it a great song? Did he do a great job? Like, yes, sir, but I'm still going to skip it. Like, it just is not.

It just doesn't hit for me. Okay. But, yeah, you know, I, it's fine. At the beginning, I will say Nathan, I was like, it's fine to, you know, not name every single song that something sounds like. But you're right. You're right on a lot of them. And ultimately, I got into it.

I was like, I enjoy you shouting out every single One Direction song. It sounds like a similar clash song or something. It's really just my way of ruining most of the stuff for Nora. It's a little way to need. It is fun. It is fun to like, you know, look. And my ears don't work that way. Like I'm not someone who listens to a song and is like, if it sounds similar to this,

like, I just don't have the ear for that. But I love that you do clearly. And I think it's a cool, a cool element of this. So I came around on that. That's not a bone to pick. All right. Dick in the box incident. Oh, my God.

Can never unhear it. Can never. That one is an exception. That was tough. That was tough. That incident. I don't want to wait any longer. I just want to take.

Now, the light is old. Yeah. All right. Sorry. Sorry. Let's do questions. And we're going to start off, you know,

with just a total softball, except that it's not at all. This is from Key. do you want any kind of potential one direction reunion? In your ideal world, what form would this take? Realistically, what do you think will happen? Nathan, I'm putting you on the spot first. What do I get to do?

First of all, the person who wants a one direction reunion more than anyone is Nile. But it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. It will happen eventually. they will be on some stage collecting some lifetime achievement award or something.

But this moment is so interesting when we talked about this on the fine line pod for Harry Styles because there may not be any going back for him. I mean,

you're not seeing Timberlake reappear with all the in sync guys. He did though. Yeah, but like not really he's not doing shows. But he did that medley. You don't,

don't think he would do like a Beyonce, Justin Timberlake thing where they do their own thing. And then for one song, the guys pop up, do it with them, like a little charity, a little nostalgia hit. And then they go back away and it's the Harry Style show. Well, here's the problem with this. When you think of a one direction reunion, does Zane have to be there or not? No. No. Are you sure? Because he's done. And then the rest are like, quote unquote, hey, you know? I think it happens without Zane. It'll never happen with Zane. Well, I think that's right. but you would call it a reunion without saying. Oh, so this is like an ideal, an ideal world scenario.

Yeah, I want them all to get back together. I want Zane to sort of work through it. And I want them to come together as a five-sum. It's not going to be, look, I got, I talked to some people who worked with the spice girls on that reunion tour. And they just said at that point, it was a nightmare because there was so much work to do to get those girls, these women, excuse me, to speak to one another much. let's actually go out and do the, do the work, you know. I have the sense, and this is what I really

appreciate about these guys, is that X, Zane, I think they still text each other. I think they're still friendly. I don't think there's a lot of, you know, animosity. So I think actually getting them back together for a cause for, you know, the queen's funeral or something, you know, could happen. The queen is alive, everybody. The queen is alive. It could happen. I suppose. I just, I don't want it to be manufactured. And I think that it's going to take a little while because Harry is on this trajectory, Nora, that we talked about, where this album is going to make or break it. If Harry's house is as good as we're hoping it's going to be, he's into the stratosphere. We're not going to see him again. I think you're right on that someday there will probably be an opportunity for them to do a show together for a good cause or when they're getting some sort of award. I would love to hear them cover each other's stuff. Like, it's a pretty rare thing, actually, to your point, Nathan, for the members of a group like this post-group to still seem largely, and, you know, Zane is the exception, to seem so friendly and like they probably are still in touch to a degree. And, like, the more that they're willing to honor that, I think that's really cool.

Backstreet boys seem to be friendly enough. It wouldn't hard to get them back together. They needed the money. some of these guys just don't need the money. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's what I agree with is like when you, you know, in theory if they were going to do a Justin Timberlake Beyonce thing where it's like a Harry Styles thing, they pop up, they leave. I think they're too big for that. Like I think that worked because the other members needed that little charity bump.

Like they were like, we'll show up. We'll do whatever you want to be involved. Whereas I think these guys are like, they're a level past that. It's also just you just don't want to go backwards. Right. You know, like, well, I would love them to go backwards, but I get it. Yeah, but but let's let's be clear. Like, there is hope in that all of them play One Direction songs in their set,

which is a wonderful fitting tribute that most people who are trying to escape the past don't actually do. So it leaves that door open, which is lovely. Yes. All right. Let's move on. We got a few questions on a similar topic. So this is from a few people, but Katie. why doesn't Harry do more collabs?

And then this is another question. But if you could pick one artist for Harry to collaborate with for his first future, who would you pick? Kate, let's start with you. Yeah. Ready? I got it. I'm ready.

I'm ready. You know what's coming from the two of us. No. No. Ready? I thought of like some obvious answers and I decided to take like a little bit of a left turn here. Okay. Yes.

We love it. Ready? Miley Cyrus. Rock. Like a. rock, kind of like grungy, yeah, duet. Plastic Hearts was so good.

I thought she really, and she's been doing so many great covers that are kind of in the same vein of covers that Harry likes to do. I feel like they would sound so great together, and that would be huge. There was a rumor she was going to show at the second Coachella weekend.

Yeah, I just would love that. It'll never happen. They're like just don't really cross paths in that way, I don't think, but I would love it. If Lil Nasax can do a thing with her dad, Harry can do something with her. The sky's a limit. Anything is possible.

Yeah, I'm going to take my horse to the hometown road. I'm going to ride till I came no more. The cyruses are available. Miley would crush Kiwi. Like, Miley could totally, that super over-the-top campiness, like Miley could absolutely knock that out of the park. She'd also do women. She'd do women well.

They could wear matching bell bottoms and, like no shirt and a blazer and it's both of their styles at once. And it would be great. I love it. Look, the reason, I don't think it's true that he doesn't do a lot of collabs. He just hasn't recorded them. On stage, he does a million collabs. See Coachella, see Stevie Nix on stage. See, right? I mean, I think he's, he's extremely open to the collabs. He just hasn't done it because he's only got 20 songs right now. Well, and also because he is so devoted to the musical inner circle and the recording process

where they all, you know, go to one place, go to Jamaica, do a bunch of mushrooms, go to Malibu, like, snuggle up with each other and make an album and that doesn't leave a lot of room for bringing other people in.

Yeah. But maybe he will get more comfortable and be open to doing that. I have a question. I have a question. Nora, who would you like to see Harry Styles collaborate with?

Oh, I don't know, Nathan. I haven't really given it much thought. Okay. It's Taylor Swift. Is it? That's the answer. Shocking. Shocking.

I would also like Casey Musgraves. Yes. They did that great duet. Or they did show one. Well, she opened for him. Yeah. Yeah. I think if we could get her in the studio, that would be a nice one to put down and put out.

Another one, Elton John? Hell yeah. Absolutely. It's hard though, because remember. Yeah, Timberlake, though, did that what ended up being a great song and great video where he plays young Elton. So you got to be careful.

Ex-boy bander mixing with Elton. Elton's done a ton of collabs lately. He just did like a whole collab album. He did collab with Elton on woman. He's still in the Jets. So. He just didn't credit Elton for it. Familiar territory. Right.

All right. Here's like, this could be a thesis topic or something. But Daniel asks, how do you guys feel about One Directions legacy in terms of how we, how we as a culture, view and understand masculinity? Did they influence or more so reflect the way people are changing their attitudes? Both. I've always thought about how they shot what makes you beautiful on the same beach, Blink 182 used to mock the backstreet boys on. I've always thought that was symbolic. In them owning the boy band title, they almost made themselves haterproof. The worst thing people could call them was a boy band.

Kate, as our boy band scholar, do you want to attack this? Oh, my goodness. Well, the beach thing has layers that I am simply not qualified to address. They were such a boy band. You know, like I guess they can say, like, in owning the boy band title, they made themselves haterproof. but also like there isn't anyone in the world who doesn't consider One Direction a boy band and did consider them that in kind of a derogatory way for a long time,

even if we don't now. I do think, I don't think One Direction had a significant impact on how our culture views masculinity. I think that they have evolved. And I do think like looking at them, especially Harry now and kind of his evolution from that, then is like pretty representative of how society. is has sort of considers like male pop stars and what we what we like to see and what is successful. But do I think like what makes you beautiful and their evolution like had an effect? I don't know that it's it.

Yeah. I mean, Kate, you started this podcast talking about how you kind of saw, you were into different ones through the stage of your fandom. And that is, we talked about an essay written by Elena Massey called The Absolute Necessity of one direction, but she had this concept called the Kingdom of the Girl, which was this safe place where young women are holy in power, and they can sort of

fantasize about who they'd rather be with. I know that you were not saying that you were fantasizing about he'd rather be with, but like, who sort of fits in their life at that time because they are these sort of stereotypes. But I think we would be remiss to not speak about how I think important

it was for five young men singing about, presumably singing a lot about heterosexuality and their own sort of, you know, at times horn doggery, as we've said. Like, their embracing of the LGBTQ community is largely unprecedented. And for a band that was in a position like that, I think it actually mattered. And I think that Harry's evolved it in some ways. But the rest of the band has, too, in their support. I mean, we spoke about how it created this tension and Zane in that fader.

interview Nora, right? Talked about how Louis and Harry, he felt like Louis and Harry actually changed their behavior in public so as not to drive the rumors. But other than that, this is a band that like not only embraced it but welcomed it and made it a really safe space in a genre of music where it definitely wasn't before. Yeah, well, I think also that's where like the solo careers and particularly Harry's matter because I think they fit into an, overall legacy of boy bandry, which is that safe space for men to be emotional and highly feeling and attentive and exuberant and all of those ways that's wonderful in its own right, just as an example of men being able to behave in public like that.

And also vis-a-vis young women who get this opportunity to finally not be the only ones who are sort of doing the feeling and the longing. there is like a kernel of something interesting, and this is where I think it carries, especially into Harry's career, where, yes, I think they deserve credit for doing that as a quote-unquote boy band. Again, I think that fits into that whole legacy

of boy bands, creating that kingdom of the girl. They became a rock band in ways that, and I know my saying that makes some people roll their eyes, but it's really true. in a lot of respects. And there is less of that legacy in rock bandy spaces. Right?

And like Harry is the one that has come out of that and sort of merged some of the tolerance and the acceptance that comes in a lot of ways out of boy band culture with the heights of celebrity and some of the sort of more traditional like. sex drugs, rock and roll symbolism of a rock star in ways that are really fascinating because there was a good amount of history where those things felt like oil and water. So, I mean, I don't want to overstate what one celebrity's symbolism can do to actually change the world and change culture. But they have a place in that conversation. Yeah, I think all I know at the end of the days you love who you love, there ain't no other way.

It was a meaningful lyric to come on their third album. It mattered. All right. Oh. I mean on their last album. Not their third. Their fifth. Nathan.

This question's going to have to go to you first. It's from a different Katie who says, loving the One Direction podcast. Thank you, Katie. Just curious which songs you think are true One Direction songs where they found their own sound rather than borrowing from other artists. Oh. They're all, that's with the beauty of one direction. I'm not, and this is not a cop-out to this question,

but we've talked through the Nile albums and the hairy solo albums. There are threads of them combining their influences with their own stuff. It's just a consistent thread with this band. I think undoubtedly we know from the lore of the band, that as we got into midnight memories and four and made in the AM, that they were putting their whole palm print on the shape of the music. And I think it is reflected in songs like Stockholm Syndrome, right? Or, you know, Louis' work across a lot of those albums.

So I feel like those albums generally are more them. But, man, we found as many roots of other stuff in those albums as we did in the early, days with the Swedish House Mafia, right? Yeah, I mean, I think you're right to point out, Louie. I would definitely put no control on that list. Because what we're talking about here is songs where they found ways to take their influences that they came by very honestly and put their own spin on it. And I would evaluate that in two ways.

one, it's to, you know, maybe you put a little X next to the songs where a chorus or a melody or chord progression is really, really truly derivative. But also you're looking for the songs where their rambunctiousness and rowdiness and attitude just came through it, right? Because, like, that was part of the proposition. And so I think no control is a really good example. I think actually, funnily enough, like never enough was very important for Nile. Olivia, we know, Tracing And get into something

We'll never forget I want to stay up in body The week in the way And I know when to quit Olivia, we know, is very important for Harry. There were sort of tracing bridges between the One Direction albums

And the solo work. But story of my life, I also think, falls into that category. You're so in the bag for that song. I'm so in the bag for that. song. Or am I just planting seeds for the song draft? Kay, do you even think that way? Like,

is there like a more formal One Direction song for you that's more them than others? You know, like I said, I knew this was a question for you. And like I said, my ear doesn't work quite that way. It's all One Direction to you. There are some, I think like I will always associate them like true early One Direction with like songs like one thing. Just like the really like poppy, very, very British, like kind of bubbly pop songs. And I know that like that's obviously they've, they revolved from that and moved on. And those aren't my favorites necessarily, although I do love one thing. But, but I guess those ones to me are what I will always.

Like if I heard someone else do a song like that, I'd be like, that sounds like one direction. Whereas if I heard someone do a song, you know, like, I don't know, where do broken hearts go or one of the kind of rockier. songs. I don't, I wouldn't go, that sounds like One Direction. I would go to that sounds like, whatever 80s rock band did the song that that song sounds like. So yeah, I guess maybe like the really, which I know, again, like wasn't them writing. So maybe other people disagree. But in my head, that's, that's what I associate them with. What is your favorite One Direction song? It actually is where do broken hearts go? Although I here I had like I did a podcast for their anniversary with my friend Lucy. Ferd, who's a British One Direction fan, and we did our top five. And I actually think I would change this now. I had Where to Broken Hearts go is my number one, which is I, it is my favorite. I had steal my girl at number four. And I think I steal my girl is actually my second favorite one direction song. I think it, it's just, it's just all time. Nathan just grunted because he's afraid to say

because he thinks it's going to give up his big board for the song draft. Good note. And now he doesn't know what to say because I can read you like a book. I mean, anyone. Anyone who listened to him talk about steal my girl, I think probably knows that's on the list. And he's right. And he's right. Is this thing on? Sorry, the headphones were not working there. Did you say something? I would say my updated, my updated one would be where your broken hearts go. Steal my girl. I'm a big Stockholm syndrome fan. I know that's like kind of, it's just the fan favorite. And we're right for that. I love strong. You make me strong. memories. And then I do like have a nostalgic love of one thing. That was like my, I was so into that music video. I was so into like that era. Like that was really when I like got in and rewatched that so many times. Like just in my heart like that that's important to

my journey. So that's my number five. I love it. I love it. Thank you for. On your journey. That kind of feeds into Ellen's question, which is what songs will One Direction be known for 20 years from now? Anything but what makes you beautiful? A ton of hits. I feel like they'll be known for several. I mean, what makes you beautiful is obviously the biggest one. But I think as they, as Harry gets more famous, as they get more famous individually, I don't think people stop listening to them.

You know what I mean? I think they're like, and again, this is probably like my Twitter algorithm showing me this. But like I feels like every couple months, someone will tweet a video of like, steal my girl or another one direction song and be like, this like didn't get its due or like this was a banger. And it'll get like thousands of retweets of people being like, yeah, the song was great. And I feel like people will still continue to rediscover some of these. Story of my life and Drag Me Down have more listens on Spotify.

Drag me down. They love Drive Me Down. I think Story of My Life is going to have a long time. I think a lot of them do. They still sound great. People still listen to them. They were really famous. Nora, stop saying things about songs.

It's really fucking me up for this draft. I think what you're doing right now is massively overhyping story of my life to try to get me to take it. Reverse psychology. He's shaking. He's so upset. You're in his head. You're in his head.

All right. Well, I snuck my own question into the mailbag. What? Because as Kate is our resident, boy band scholar and fandom scholar, and because Nathan, I know you have thoughts on this topic. I wanted to get you guys to take the floor on if there is any sort of lineage that connects one direction with the boy band of the current moment, BTS and if there are specific parallels that we should be aware of there. Yeah. Nathan, do you have specific questions or do you want to just like overall get into it?

I have to say I've also gotten a lot of texts. Every time you bring up BTS, my K-pop media friends are like, what does Nathan? Does Nathan know about them? Does he care about them? Is it just the business side of things? Like what is his investment in BTS? And I also would love to know. I guess my question for you is do you think about them as the, you know, right? inheritors of the throne of 1D? Yeah. I think, I mean, I ride hard for K-pop, like, as a genre and as an industry. It's not a genre.

It's an industry. There are a lot of genres within K-pop. I think BTS is bigger than One Direction. I think the thing that limits BTS is they have such a focus on the group overall. And I think Hib, for, you know, big hit Hib, I'm trying to do this without pissing people off. And of course, I've already pissed off the fandom. I'm historically.

It's not so easy, is it? They have always had a like group first strategy, which one direction also had to a degree. But it is, has been really hard and I think we'll continue to be really hard to make household names and individual celebrities out of the members of BTS over here. As long as this continues, they're not allowed to do individual fashion partnerships. They don't do individual photo shoots for the most part. That's what's fascinating to me. If they have solo work, they're not allowed to sell the albums physically. They don't promote on shows individually.

They do these mixtapes. But they're not allowed to do any of these things that would make them celebrities. They're employees. Yeah. And they have such this focus on the group. And it's working to a degree, obviously. And again, part of this to note is just like old-fashioned racism. Like people don't learn their names because they have Korean names to a degree, like people in America.

No doubt. And there's obviously that's part of it. But there are other K-pop companies that have successfully created celebrities. People know G-Dragon. People know, you know Jenny from Black Pink. Like, they are allowed to promote solo songs. Did you think the V. Olivia moment at the Grammys was a moment? I did.

And he actually, he, I think right now is the most obvious Harry Styles of VTS. I think he is the social butterfly. he, when they were in Vegas, he was, you know, having dinner with different celebrities and out on the town. And like, you know, he has the fashion. He's the Gucci boy. Like he's got, he has all of the elements to be a celebrity. And he, I think, wants that and fits that. And I think he should be on magazines.

And I'm not like a solo stand. I don't want people to listen to me like, what about the other ones? But I think he's the most obvious example of a missed opportunity when it comes to taking what he's prepared to do and what he wants to do and what he would be good at. and channeling it into making, making them individual celebrities. Let me ask you a question that is not related to their anonymity in the U.S., but it's more, you're right that my fascination with BTS is a lot around the business side.

Sure. Because I do think they looked at one direction and what worked and what didn't and have sort of built a business to try to insulate, as you just said, very eloquently, to try to insulate the brand and the band from the individual members.

So my question to you is how hard would it be to swap in one new guy for somebody who's there now? Like a brand new member of BCCS? They used to do with Minuto back in the day. Like they were like 60,000 members of Minuto. They just put it like the wiggles. Like who knows, there's all kinds of new wiggles. Anyway, whatever. There is a K-pop group called NCT that has this fluid structure where they add new units.

Sure, but that's part of what they do. Like with BTS is the brand big enough. You could never do it. You could never do it. One of their members, Chuga had arm surgery and he missed a show. And they holographed him in so that he was not missing so that there were still seven of them. It's so interesting to me because of the mandatory military service issue. It actually means that the band is more at risk than I think people probably understand.

And it's so tied to the value of the hybe stock that that's the business thing that's interesting to me. And that's getting some sort of like waiver for that? It's very, it's very up. in the air. It's very important. Yeah. The legislature was going to pass a law to do, but now maybe not. It's been delayed. But I think that was when, that's when a lot of K-pop groups do their solo output and when they do subunits and when they start really pushing individual members. And, you know, I think a big difference here also when we're comparing them to one direction is longevity. Like people act like enlistment is like a deadline for boy groups, like for K-pop groups. But you have K-pop groups that are that have been active for 10 years for more

than that through enlistment because they do have these strategies where one member goes and they promote a subunit or two members go and they have a soloist. And they keep the group active and they keep them in headlines and they, you know, add on in all these, all these different ways that then they all come back. It's just like when Donnie Wahlberg went to start a burger restaurant. Right. You're diversifying your income. You knew he was going to come back. Yeah, it's pretty good. It is. I hit it in the Boston airport at Logan. And I was like, shit. It's. It's going to be. It It's a solid Logan, you need to grab a bite spot. Right.

And in the in the vein of Walburgers, like, you just got to, you got to try some things, you know? And I think, I think Hyde is so successful with the current thing that they, I think it's, it's scary to consider solo careers. Also, one more note, I have to say, when we're comparing them to one direction. Yeah. Is they have done the reverse one direction in that when BTS started out, their big thing was like they wrote all their stuff. they produced all their stuff. It was coming from R.M. and Shuga. They were writing and producing.

And that was why they recruited them, like from kind of the Korean rap scene was that they were these really accomplished self-producers and writers. And in the past year from BTS, we've gotten dynamite, not their song. Permission to dance. Ed Shearin. God, which is great.

He's always there. Always. And he is responsible for the worst, one of the worst BTS songs of all time. No coincidence. And many of the worst one direction. songs. But they've done the reverse One Direction in that, you know, you guys talked about how One Direction started out being fed these pre-packaged pop songs and then ultimately became more of their

own authentic artists along the way, whereas BTS started out very authentically writing all their own stuff and now have kind of as they've broken into the West, kind of been forced into this little kind of pre-packaged thing, which again, I get it. And again, it's racism. Like, Korean songs weren't successful in America. So they had to sing in English. And that's that. and that's what worked. But, you know, I do think it's notable that they have kind of switched in the way that One Direction did where they now are doing less of their own writing, unfortunately. Yeah.

I mean, listen, a French boy band would have some of the same problems. Right. Like, there's an accessibility issue that I think is just standard anytime you move music into a market. But what I think is astonishing about that band is that they've actually been able to overcome it. That's, they're the first real band that's been able to do that in an interesting way from a, from a different country. Yeah.

Wow. So she said she thinks they're bigger than one direction. That's a big take. They're huge. They're huge. They're the biggest boy band of all time. They just are. Nora, you're silent.

Sorry. No, but I think, I actually think that that's kind of not totally up for debate. The interesting thing is, I think one thing that I've realized about one direction, the more that we've gone through the discography and then moved on to the solo careers, particularly when you brought all that data about Nile, is that it's easy to forget how international of a phenomenon they were. But I don't know that that even really scratches the surface of how it probably scratches the surface, right?

But like that does not rise to the same level that BTS has in terms of like truly global and not just North America and Europe. like spanning continents in appeal. Kate, has BTS made anything that really deserved a Grammy? Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

You're in the back to the soul. Their like H. Y.Y.Y.H. series. They have some really incredible early songs that you have not heard, I promise. However, I will say really quick what we're talking about whether one direction is popular in other countries.

You will not find more 20-something men obsessed with Harry Styles than you will in the K-pop industry. I cannot, if you, there is not a K-pop group that does not have a member that loves One Direction and Harry Styles. Junkuk from BTS has a great cover of falling. There, any member in K-pop, you Google, you know, NCT One Direction or like, you know, blackpank One Direction, as I do. You will find them referencing singing songs, like deep cuts. They love One Direction and they love Harry Styles in the K-hop industry.

All right, let's go a little more rapid fire with these. Megan asks, what One Direction songs would you put back into the solo tour set lists of any member? My answer is I want Louis doing no control because he just murders that vocal. Why hasn't he? He does like, he did drag me down on tour. They love drag me down. They've all done drag me down. Yeah, they love singing Drag Me Down.

Yeah, I. he has to do no control. I agree. I would love for someone to do steal my girl just because it's fun. But although the vocals are hard and it's hard to do

Zane's parts probably. No control in Louis is the most obvious answer. I think. I totally agree about that. Nathan? Liam should do. I should have kissed you.

You're so right. You're so right. Oh, here's one. stop all this bullshit club music and get back to the the real stuff. That, yeah. Hashtag real music. Here's one from Kelsey.

Why do you guys dislike Ed Sheeran so much? No, it's only Nora. Okay? It's because I'm a hater. I'm just a hater, guys. I like Ed Shearin. I think Castle on the Hill. I like Atchiren too.

Castle on the Hill moves me. A Team moves me. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I do not like A team. It's too cold outsides to fly I don't love that his writing is so distinct to him that when it sort of gets delivered to other writers

you can tell it's them singing an Ed Shearin song. Yeah, I actually like Ed Shearin. I don't love the Ed Shearin industrial complex. Right. Because the Ed Shearing Cinematic Universe, we're out on that. Yeah, we're out on that. I don't like when he writes for others often because it is so such a prototypical edge here in song

every single time. I resent the Marvin Gaylifting. I also get mildly irked. He has so many features. Like other people feature on his stuff so often. And I think he deserves real credit for being a very good identifier of talent and choosing good collaborators

and making those work, I think early on when Taylor Swift's voice worked with very few other people, I think he sounded really good singing with her. There's a lot to be said for that. There's another side of it

that irks me a little bit where he is someone very, very famous who's relying pretty frequently on other particularly female artists to kind of lift his stuff up. And then it feels like he gets a lot of credit for it. When often he's not the one doing the most creative work on it.

It's not like, I mean, the chain smokers do it way more often and way more egregiously. Right? But like there's a little bit of that thing where it's just like you are not really the person making this song go, but you are the person who's getting the majority of the. credit for it. I think he is genuinely excellent at a few things. Yeah. And I want to just say there are very few people in the history of the business who can walk into a stadium with 60,000 people carrying only his guitar and some pedals and carry an absolutely kick-ass show. It is unbelievably impressive. And like that is the thing where I think he's,

he has a distinct superpower, right? Like, he has a core talent that's pretty special. I don't really know what else he does. That is super compelling to me. But that in and of itself is enough to make a really quite the career. Stay tuned for every single album, Ed Shearer, when Nora and Nathan, passive-aggressively swipe at each other for 15 hours of content.

I'm going to tweet something and be like, if we get 500 retweets, we'll do it. And it'll just be us, like, growing. Like the Rita Oritz, we were like, then you have to delete it. Because people are like, never mind. Yes. Yes. We don't want it. Just kidding. It was a joke.

All right. Jenna asks, what do you guys think of trouble the unreleased One Direction song probably about Taylor? Taylor heads, take it away. Nathan? Nora. There's really only one thing to think of

about this song. And that it contains the lyric, it never snows in Hollywood, but when we sang, it showed us that it could. It never snows in Hollywood, but when we sang it showed us that it could. Which means that Harry and Taylor sang together.

Wow. Which means that the collab is possible. I don't know. Maybe it means they walked at the grove where they do fake snow during Christmas. That's all that might mean. and they'd like hum to Christmas tune. Probably Noddy List by Liam.

Oh, my God. That's why they broke up. That would do it. That's like Taylor left the New Year's vacation. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Ellen asks,

what's the best Harry Styles concert moment? His banter is as entertaining as the music. Kate, you want to hit us with one? I mean, every time he helps a fan come out is just lovely and funny and charming. Do you want to tell or should I tell her? I can tell you. Yeah. Excuse me.

Did, do, do, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Lisa. She's gay. And I think there's, I think it's so good because he, I mean, he's done it, like, the, he did it at the show I went to, and he's done it a million others. And he always just, like, takes a minute, walks around, looks at signs. Yeah, it's not. paired. It's this incredibly high stakes moment that is so brave for someone to take on and be like, I'm just going to roll with whatever the sign says. And it's, you know, helping someone come out

to their mom or like the rest of the world. And he just turns it into this like very loving and earnest and entertaining and not like too cringy or awkward moment, which is just like such a superpower to have and to carry that. There's also, I was on, I was so deep into like Harry Stiles TikTok during the love on tour thing. And like, My entire For You page was just videos of him doing this at concerts. I resent that. Oh, boy, by the way. But there was a very funny TikTok that has stayed with me of him.

It's just a video of him. I wanted to love on tour shows where there was a baby at the show. I don't know if you saw this. But the baby is like sleeping through the show. It's got these big headphones on. And he's like, he's like, he's a goner. He was gone a long time ago. And he'll continue to be gone.

And he's like, thank you for coming, young child. She's half a sleep, which usually I would find very effective. But considering she's almost too, I'm going to let it slide. I mean, like, has this whole monologue with this sleeping child. And he just, like, kind of won't let it go either. Like, he's just kind of still going. And it's just really funny. And it's just, I just think it's really impressive that he is just able to,

as someone who talks more than they should when they're nervous. like kind of rambles, as maybe you can tell, from any podcasts I've ever been on. It's just impressive that he is just able to be so funny and so charming, just off the cuff with interacting with these very, like often quite passionate fans that are near the stage. I think that the point about him like not letting things go is really good. It's always like 10 seconds longer than it maybe it should have been.

But it works. It works. It works. Like one that we, I know we, we didn't get a chance to talk about, which is just such a tragedy, but we get to talk about it now

is the Poutine show, the Poutine rant in Canada, where he just yelled Poutine over and over and over again. What goes on in this man's brain? Just keeps it every time. Have you guys talked about, again, I don't know, you probably haven't. There was also the moment when he fell

and he talked about it on the Ellen show during One Direction show where he just absolutely ate it. Wait, it looked like you're used to the microphone sand leaving with you, but it was, it was, it was bad carpentry because there was a loose flat. Almost pulled up. And like, it wasn't funny at the moment, but looking back on it and him talking about it is

quite funny. Kind of funny. This man can get away with anything. He can. He can. It's true. You guys are so in the bag. It's just, honestly, there's probably, there's probably three bodies in his garage right now.

And you guys are going to be like, I wish, I wish one of them was me. You guys are going to be like, Poutine. Poutine. Nathan, have you been to it? Wait, wait, wait. Nathan, have you been to a Harry Styles concert? I assume you know. Absolutely.

Yeah. What's your favorite, like, what's your favorite moment? Have you not been moved by the spirit of Harry Styles when he's been bantering with the crowd? I have been moved and I have watched some of the Harry Styles TikToks. I guess I have watched. So I was at the one night only show where he played fine line before pre-pandemic. Same. And okay, so for me...

Did you see Ellen DeGeneres? No, I didn't. Nathan Seas were probably a lot closer to Ellen DeGenerg. No. But I love watching him get overwhelmed with his bigness. So I love the moment that Nora called out on the pod where he's at the troubadour with Stevie Nix. And he just like sits down and he actually like puts his head in his hands.

I am losing my shit. And I loved that night watching him deliver his music to the world for the first time and the way that he sort of took it in during the encore or at the end of the last song, just sort of the way that he experienced the crowd that night. There are just moments where he sort of breaks through that fourth wall. You all have talked about how he's so composed and he's charming. It's those moments where he actually isn't this like perfect all the time guy, where he actually shows that vulnerability

and overwhelmed that I love to see on stage. It's the opposite of Taylor fake putting her hands on her face. Like, oh my God, everyone's here screaming. Like the mouth open face. It's the opposite of that. That was unnecessary. The two of you, my Los Angeles,

were talking about the Grove a minute ago. So I'm, I'll let Kate handle this one first, but I want both of you to answer. From Anna, what are your thoughts on the Harry Styles vomit, Trine, and I will add my own addendum, which is I need to know if either one of you has ever seen it. You know, it has never occurred to me to drive past it. Where is it? So I'm, this, I should know. I should know. Because I'm just looking at a daily mail article on the 101 in Calabasas.

Oh, that's, that's rich people territory. Nathan, have you ever seen it? I've never seen it. Who wants to drive by a vomit train? Let's take a field trip. I all take a trip. Yeah, I think we need a field trip. It's, first of all, it's, it's historic. It's. It's, it's, it's historic. It's. historic landmark. And if it had ever occurred to me and I had been in the area, I probably would have driven by and looked for it.

Is it still there? Probably not. Do you think if I drove by? Do you think I could just like sense when I was like near it? I think I probably could. I feel like probably. The photo that I'm looking at though,

it does look like the shrine was kind of a, just like a, the sign looks like it could be a little fancy. Somebody died in a car crash. What? That's what it looks like. It looks like all those terrible things and somebody like...

Or they put the teddy bears in the flowers. Okay, but instead it says Harry Styles threw up here. Right. October 12, 2014. The nice guy had a moment in L.A. That was a fun place for a while. A little too fun for Harry. Yeah.

If I ever am in the area, I will let you know and I will search for it. I doubt that it is still marked, but I would love to go out of pilgrimage guys. Let's do this. Let's do this. Next time you're in town, Nora, we will go out and drink too much.

And then we'll get in an Uber. And then we're all going to gross. And first one to do it. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's a sign of respect. It is. Okay.

Gross. Next question before I be ham ill. K.M. Tate asks, which boy has the best solo cover of One Direction? And why is it Liam's what a feeling? Nathan. Well, he's answered his own question. isn't he?

It is pretty good. I do think Niles, of the drag me downs, which drag me down is the best? Three of them have done it. Louis-Leom Nile. I think Niles is the best, actually. I think Niles is the best drag me down, yeah.

Yeah. He's got like the raspiness to it, you know? Nathan. What is the best? I suck at this question. I don't have... My job is to hear covers in their songs,

not the other way around. That's fair. That is fair. I do, obviously, Harry's Stockholm syndrome is very important to me. But I don't love the way he plays it live.

That's what I was trying to... I know me too. I was trying to avoid saying that because that's really what's in my head. Wait, what do you think about... What bothers me more is his changing of what makes you beautiful. Same.

That's what I was going to say. I love the symbolism of him doing that song, but I don't really like how he doesn't. No, me either. It feels wrong. Do you now know what was going on my head? I was like, I don't actually like some of those.

It just doesn't work as well for me. Yeah, yeah. But I think Niles dragged me down as good. Liam's what a feeling and Niles dragged me down for me. All right. This is actually going to be our second to last question because I'm going to insert my own at the end. But Lily asks for thoughts on Harry's Better

Homes and Gardens interview. Kate, I want to bug Nathan on something on this. So I will direct this to you first. I want to say, first of all, that I loved you calling out Harry Lambert as Harry's best collaborator for Fine Line. And I just trust him so much in everything, in everything. And I, and this was just another example of just like having fun in this sort of like great photo shoot setting.

that I also think really, I love that it was Better Homes and Gardens because it was Harry's house. It's just brilliant. Whoever in that conference room is like, here's a thought. 50 covers of Better Homes and Gardens have been like leaks.

And now here's Harry's. What company to keep, honestly. I just thought that was so funny. I love that like you just had kind of the cottage core photo shoot vibes. I will say I was concerned. There's the picture of him in the creek that just looked very dirty and unsafe.

and maybe full of all sorts of crawly things. So that kind of freaks me out a little bit. He's got E. coli at this point. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there was a lot of discourse about him in that profile, like not wanting to label his sexuality again. And I just have no problem with that. Like, I don't think he needs to.

People were like, why does he keep, you know, talking about LGBT rights and people's sexuality if he doesn't want to label his own? I'm like, that's every person's right. Like, I think a lot gets projected onto him. And he handles it very gracefully. I have no problem at all with with him not wanting to label that. So I think that was the big discourse around this particular profile. But I thought it was great.

You know, I'm always happy to see a hairstyle's photo shoot and profile. And I thought it was really well done. It wasn't as good as the mushrooms one, but what is? Yeah, I'm totally with you that any of my criticism feels like very purposefully obtuse. What was up with the hole in the sock? They got to show off that pleasing toenail polish, the nail polish. the specific new pleasing shade of green. Do you know how uncomfortable it is to walk around with sock like that?

It was disturbing to me as well. You have to stop over your art. Voluntarily. Yeah. Gotta get that spawncon in there. It looked like a cozy sock, too. I think it's okay. The thing that caught my eye from it was that,

and this was sort of just a little aside, but he mentioned that he's been listening almost exclusively it sounded like to just a bunch of classical music. in preparation, or he was in preparation for doing Harry's house, which I found really interesting because the idea of One Directions music and his music being derivative is obviously something that we've talked about so much. So Nathan, what I'm curious is did you read that as I kind of did as a subtle acknowledgement of that almost and maybe an attempt by him to see what album he makes if he tries to kind of rid his brain of all those influences. It was a little bit like a

digital cleanse. I mean, you guys referenced the universe, the Ed Sheeran universe. And I think it doesn't matter if it's Harry Styles or any other artists. Like, we've talked about this on this podcast a bunch. And it ties into all of the, hey, we heard a lot of, other songs in One Direction songs. But like, we're at the edge of the forest, Nora, I know you love that phrase. We're at the edge of the forest of what you can do within this format.

Until we move in the way that like big band, you know, classical move to big, jazz to a different format, like until we move to a truly different format, we're just reinventing the wheel. And yeah, you can take Ed Sheer into court, but you can take pretty much everybody to court because there just aren't math, mathematically that many ways to combine these chord structures in new and innovative ways.

We can use computers to make really interesting sounds, but we're kind of there. And so I appreciate that Harry did sort of this cleanse, musical cleanse to sort of reset it. But I actually think that artists going forward, like they are these universes. They are these like worlds. And the music that they make is only one part of it, right? For Harry, it's, there's a whole. universe around Harry that is short-form visual content, it's long-form visual content, it's consumer products, it's whatever the fuck's going to happen in the metaverse.

And the way that innovation and real artistry and creative expression is going to happen may actually happen around the music instead of wholly through the music, certainly the words and the feelings that get put into otherwise recycled chords and musical structures might be real and authentic, but that a lot of the innovative, you know, creative stuff that happens is going to be in an artist's world going forward. So I'm happy that he did the reset. Yes, I think it's probably a tacit acknowledgement that he's got to not, you know, write a print song on this record. And it's also, I think, an acknowledgement of the pressure that he must be feeling. We heard a lot about the pressure when he was making fine line. But to try to

top fine line in this moment when he has a chance to basically join Beyonce, Taylor Swift, and according to Kate, BTS, as one of the four biggest stars in the world, I'd be doing a cleanse too. I have to say, you can call it a cleanse, but I look forward to the episode of this podcast

where you guys talk about Harry's house and Nathan does five minutes on how music for a sushi restaurant reminds him of Beethoven's ninth. Like I think, listen, it's still music. There are still influences that could happen here

and I wouldn't rule it out. That's incredible. That's incredible. So we're going to move on. to the song draft an ensuing fight to the death in a second. But Nathan, I do want to give you the floor. We are recording this on May 6th.

And I just want to give you 60 seconds to give your take on these little mini-residencies that Harry has announced for New York and L.A. And he's playing a couple other places. But this little sequence of mini-residencies that's making up additional

love on tour dates. I think it's the future of touring for really big artists because it's so much easier on them. It is easier on the environment. There's less gasoline, burned, going town to town. It is cheaper to do

because you only load in once and load out once and you're not, you know, sort of all the costs associated with getting from place to place. It allows you to actually take a bunch of the demand out of the market, which means that you play so many times, and there are so many tickets available, that it actually keeps prices overall lower for the fan

and reduces the secondary market. Prince did this in 2011 and L.A. at the Forum. He played 21 shows, I think 18 at the Forum and 3 at House of Blues, and he charged $25 a ticket. And it was a fucking religious experience. And so I think this is an environmentally conscious. way to tour. It is, I think, probably net net more profitable for Harry. It also gives fans an opportunity to see him for a lower price. What's not to like, of course, is that there are people sitting in Tulsa and Indiana. It's Kate. It's young Kate who's like, what the hell? But you know what? There are people sitting in rural parts of Argentina who felt the same way about every artist ever. And what's interesting about coming out of the pandemic and the fact that he's

doing this coming out of the pandemic. I promise you, there will be some after these shows, not before, or certainly after they're all sold out, there will be some announcement of a streaming 11 million camera shoot that anybody around the world with an internet connection can access and see him live and feel like he's a part of it. Is it the same thing? No, we are chemically wired to be together and be in person and that's why, you know, Kate is probably making up for last time going to all the shows that she can in LA. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to Lord tonight for crying out loud because there's something just, you know, ecstatic and just religious about being there. But I love that he's pushing the envelope and doing something different.

It is a choice that he is making with Jeffrey Azoff at every turn. And with all of these great artists, Taylor Swift, Madonna, JZ, you name it, their business is inextricably linked to their creative output. And it's fun to see them taking a few risks and, and, and, you know, and, you know, trying to advance the industry in a way that benefits the planet, the fans, and his own pocket. If I can piggyback, too, not to bring it back to BTS, but they just did, they called it a residency. They just did two weekends in Vegas. And, you know, obviously a lot of fans, they did the thing where they broadcast the last show worldwide for anyone to watch.

But they also did all these pop-ups and events. And they did, like, they turned buildings purple and they did pop-ups and they did club nights. And they did all these, like, you could visit like eight sub-ups. supplementary buildings and events and spend your money there and buy their merch there. And I think I would be shocked if Harry doesn't do something similar to this in every city, especially the cities that he's spending a lot of time in. And yeah, I just think it provides so many extra opportunities for fans to the extremely passionate fans, which they all are, to really, really invest and commit for for all day and all weekend

and all 10 days of this of these residents. We've talked a lot about BTS admiring and trying to replicate. and copy Harry Styles. It wouldn't surprise me if the Harry Styles crew is watching what they've been doing and we'll see some replication. Agreed.

Yeah. Kate, thank you so much for joining us. This has just been a true delight. Guys, thank you so much. I have, again, just have enjoyed this podcast so much. And I can't wait to listen to the episodes

that I have not heard yet as they have come out already as people are listening, but I have not been able to listen to them. And I really can't wait to hear you guys talk about Harry's house. We'll see it for every single album, BTS. Great. I'll be there.

All right. It's time. Welcome to the Thunderdome. This feels grossly unfair. You literally last week, your other job, among many of us, is to like be the world's expert on the NFL draft. So you just spent an entire week, like getting deep inside the minds of people thinking about drafting all kinds of strategies. I was just listening. Drafting for need. Drafting for volume.

Right. Let's talk about the rules. All right. Here's how we're going to do this. Nathan and I are each going to draft a team of 10 songs. Everything is up for grabs. Everything meaning every one direction song ever. And then all of the solo work that that followed it. The only rule is that each of our draft classes must include at least one song by each member as a solo art. artist. Right. Now, that means we could draft multiple songs from a solo artist. You're not required to have five one direction songs. Okay. But you need one Harry Styles song, one Nile Horan song, one Louis Tomlinson song, one Liam Payne song, one Zane Malick song. Okay. How are we going to determine draft order? I think I have an idea for how to do it. My very generous thought was going to be to let

you go first since I smoked you at the Taylor Drive. No, no, no. This feels like a trap. I don't like it. I think what we should do is you should pick a number between one and two. Kaya, producer Kaya, who's currently off camera on our Zoom, should be holding up a number between one and two, and she should come off camera to reveal which number she was holding up. Nora's going to guess.

And if Nora's right, then she can decide. If she's wrong, then I can decide. Here we go. Nora, what's the number? Kai's holding up a two. Son of them. Guy was holding up a two. No! No!

I just gave away the first pick trying to be cute and fair. Why do I do this every time? It's tough. It's a really tough scene. It seems like you're scrambling. Doesn't seem like you've got order in your draft room. I'm completely thrown. I'm in the Rams draft room right now.

It's like a super nice house, but there's not really a lot of thinking going on. God. You're not picking until 104. All right. Oki dokey. Everything is awful. And everything is on the table

because with the first overall pick in the every single album One Direction draft. Don't you fucking do it too. I am not going to try to outsmart Nathan. I am simply going to pick my very favorite one direction song.

What? No, that's not true. I'm picking watermelon sugar. Okay, okay, okay, fine. That's fine. I can totally live with that. I had written that off. I mean, not even on my draft board, Nora, to be honest, because I knew that's where you were going to go. Have it. Watermelon sugar is all yours. I don't take it. I am up next. Oh, I mean, it's just like, you know you're looking at a star. You know it. It's right there. You have to take the best player on the board. And the best player on the board.

and the best player on the board that I cannot live without. I really spent a lot of time thinking about this over the last few days and I was like, I think I can lose every song on the board. I'm not sure I'm totally there, but the one song that I absolutely cannot lose

is steal my girl. I'm happy for you. I'm happy for you. I know you have a plan for how you're going to use that on your team. You're up. So, I'm going to stick with my philosophy

of drafting my board, not trying to draft your board. Thank you. This is not true, by the way. I know that you have an absolute punch in my face that's lined up somewhere. Like, you're totally bullshitting me right now. Well, I don't think so. Stop speaking so calmly. I'm taking night changes.

Let me draft night changes. My favorite one direction song. What? It's my favorite one direction song. I really missed this. I really thought that story of my life was the one you were going to grab. You were wrong. Huh.

Huh. Okay. All right. I'm sticking to my board then. There are things I, again, there are things that I can, I, I'd be willing to lose. Look, it's the coolest song. It's a little off the repertoire, but I think it's, I think the real ones know. And I, I'm going to take Stocklomson.

Okay. All right. This is in my top 10, which I guess means that. Wait, what. What? Don't do it. No. I want to draft. I should have kissed you. No fucking way. That is mean. That is mean. That is mean. See, I'm sorry. Now, the reason that it's really mean is that I thought you really wanted story in my life. And I had that. story of my life on my list of things to draft in spite if you took I Should Have Kissed You. Listen, the fact that you were introduced to that song, you didn't even realize that song existed before this podcast. And my advocacy made another fan. I'm going to tell you that I feel really great about it, even though I'm absolutely crushed. But I did make a decision last night that I would lose, I should have kissed you, to your absolute draft fuckery.

in exchange for hang on to steal my girl. So I can live with this. Right now, my head is high, even if my feelings hurt. It's my turn. I'm taking girl crush. You won't me just as much. And I've got a girl crush.

Oh. You got scared. You got scared. I was going to sweep in and do it before you could. I did. I got really afraid at this point, now that I know it's a war in the trenches, it's hand-to-hand combat,

you are not taking that from me. I'm trying to think about, oh, there are a few. I do have a few precious ones left, so that's fine. I can't believe you took a guy should have kissed you. That's so mean.

He just did it for the sport, Nora. How could you? You've been to my house. I made you dinner. He's so mad. You tried so hard to pretend you're not mad. You didn't do that much of the cooking. Your brother made me dinner. You're going to end up trading that song for cash and a player to be named later.

That's this dog shit. I'll pick it up in the expansion draft. You know what I would trade it for? New Romantics. Okay, fair. We'll see. You'd trade it for it. Well, never mind.

Where do you think I'm going to go next? This is not my job to think about it. I mean, where do I think I know where you're going next? Uh-huh. go ahead, take it. It's fine. Slow hands. Yeah, I was prepared to sacrifice that. It bothers me. It should.

Yeah, it bothers me, but I actually have two Nile songs that I think I like as much or better than Slow Hands, even though I think Slow Hands is unbelievably awesome. So I think I can live with that. What I'm really thinking about right now and having an absolute mental connoissement over is whether you might actually draft two Nile songs in this top ten. That's the part for me

that could be super painful. Losing the first pick is really hard. I'll put it to you. You came up with this game. God damn it. I really want to hurt you with Zane. But the thing is, I know if I take pillow talk right now

that you will be just fine taking I don't want to live forever because you get to put Taylor in your list. That's the part for me that is really difficult. But I think that I don't want to live forever is more about the two of them than like an amazing song. And so I'm taking Pillow Talk. Okay. That's a good pick. That's a high value pick. Yeah. I respect it. So you thought I might take two Nile songs. And you might have been on to something. Oh, no. But I don't know if, I don't know if you're quite on to something in the way that I'm going to attack this. Okay.

I'm drafting wolves. I'm pretty upset. I'm pretty upset because in my list, my top five one direction song is Wolves is definitely in it. It definitely is in it. And I made a last second change that actually moved it down to number six. And I have some regrets. I didn't think that you were going to be bold enough to take wolves.

And that's fine. you can... I don't know. I mean, I want wolves really badly. Your draft board is starting to look just spiteful. I don't even think you're building a team. You're like... You're the fucking Jaguars or something.

There's no rhyme or reason here. Right now, I have four of the top five songs on my big board. This isn't about you, Nathan. You've drafted five times... I don't believe that. That just means that I've been... very convincing. Okay. We're trying to... You know what? I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I have four of the top five songs on my big board. And the only song that is not in my top five was I should have kissed you,

which I did take to say. It's super spiteful. All right. So look, we agree on words. So that tells you that there's one of my top five that's still out there for grabs if you could just figure out where it is. I know what it is. But I don't want to. it. I don't want it. I'm not going to, I'm not, this is not a draft where I'm trying to inflict damage on you. This is a draft where I'm trying to get the team that I really want. I could take the Liam song. I know you want the Liam song, but. Or do you? Oh, God. Okay. I'll tell you what I'm going to do here. Ooh, this is a really pivotal moment in this draft because this is my fifth song. You have, see, I think I can clean up in the back part on the One Direction stuff from you.

All right. It will destroy me if you take San Francisco, so I'm taking it. I just got to cover my Nile ass there. I was prepared for you to end up with San Francisco in this draft, but I'm not going to lie to you. Still, it still hurts. I would have thought a lot about our song. with the song with Anne-Marie, because I really, really like that song. But I'd be lying if I told you that I think it's, it's the same as San Francisco or slow hands for me. I just know that I have watermelon sugar and slow hands,

which means that people are coming to my party. We'll see. If you have a party and I have a party on the same night, people are coming to my house. I'm going to have all the people with crumbs in their bed. All right. I think this is where I've got to win. employ a little bit of strategy because I was getting nervous about you taking this year,

even though I'm not sure it's what you would, would even do. But I know that if I don't end up with this song, I think the gap gets pretty big. So I'm going to cover my Louis portion here and take walls. Yeah, that was the one that I was going to take just to screw you over. But like, it would have screwed me over. I can't draft walls there because it wouldn't have been a genuine thing. Again, I'm sticking to my big board. So you can have walls because I'm pretty sure you're not taking another Louis song. So that really was the way I was going to hang in there.

Now, the way to really get you would be to take the Liam song. Would it be? I don't know. Yeah. You like strip that down. I do. You really like strip that down. I do. I just think that whoever drafts what makes you beautiful is going to win this draft.

So I need to have that. I made an executive decision to park that in my stash. And I'm going to draft that because I think it gives me good coverage down the road. So give me what makes you beautiful. How do you feel about that? That's a good pick. That was like the hardest, the hardest strategic decision in making my big board was whether I should put what makes you beautiful in line with where I really feel it ranks versus bumping it up a little bit for sort of historical impact. That's what I did. I chose not to do that. Yeah. And that's why you got wolves and I ended up

with what makes you beautiful. Because I had wolves in there and then I moved what makes you beautiful because I'm like, I got to, if it's on the draft board, you got to take the offensive linemen. You got to take the left guard. It's not as sexy, but like it's the anchor. All right. Now I'm drafting Olivia. Okay. I'm actually totally comfortable with that. I like Olivia. That song is so good. Yeah, I'll tell you how. The answer is because I'm taking Diana. Because all the cool kids like Diana and Diana's cooler than Olivia. The cool kids liked Diana when Olivia didn't exist yet. We'll see about that. We'll see. Also, my girls love it. It's a good song. It's a good song. Yeah. So listen, Olivia V. Diana, I think that's actually a really good Twitter poll. We'll see how people feel about that.

All right. You've got not a lot of slots left, I just want to say. Yep. I have three slots left. And there's only the one song that remained in the top five of my big board. Yeah. It's still not gone off the board. So I think this is where I grab it. And it's no control. Did you do any research for this draft, or did you just try to take things that I like? No, I made my own big board. So here was my process. I came up with a one direction order, with a Harry order, with a Nile order, with a Louie order, with a Zane order, with a Liam order. And then I thought about it. And with some eye towards strategy, not towards what you would pick,

though I did go through after I'd compiled my big board and put stars next to the ones that I could really target to stick the knife in. Bullshit. I compiled the big board mostly just based on preference but with an eye towards what I thought might get drafted quickly.

Okay, but can we just talk about something? Okay. You are out of song. You have to pick a Zane and a Liam song now. I know. So I have only one that I, can, yeah. So I am down to, I have not picked a Liam song. I have not picked a Louie song. So if I really want, I have to pick a Liam song. So if I really want to screw you, I can take, strip that down. You know I love it when the music stop, but come and strip that down for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it. And make you pick a different Liam song.

because I will have the entirety. I can just strip that down Nevada remix that I love. That is the same song. Doesn't work. I get all of the remixes with them. Just like you get all the Elvira remixes when you take Willow. So strip that down. Come on down.

Have some. Go deep into the Liam category. This is hard for you because you have to stand up and declare that you want to. this song. I'm taking the Drag Me Down Big Pano remix. No, that doesn't count. That does not count.

It totally counts. Big Pano is Liam as a solo entity. No, that is Drag Me Dad. No way does that count. Because then I could go take a million. I'm going to do the Nathan Hubbard. I should have kissed you remix. It sounds a lot like I should.

have kissed you. But Nathan Hubbard is... With me in the background, like, this song fucking rules. Here it is. Well, unfortunately, you're out of... I would let you draft that, but you can't because you're out of slots.

This is an absolute violation of protocol. There's no chance you get to take Drag Me Down Big Pano remix. I don't know. I don't know. I think if Girl Crush is on the table as filling the Harry category... That's a cover of somebody else's song.

this is a remix of a One Direction song. This is completely outrageous. This is outrageous. If you take Big Payneau, I don't know, I don't even know how to respond to this. I didn't realize we need a judge. Kaya, what do we do? Is this acceptable?

Oh, I feel like I want to rule that it's, I feel like I want a rule that it's not. acceptable. No. It's not a Leam remix, but it is a Liam remix, but it is not a Liam song. Thank you. Payneau remix. It's not the solo category. All right. I'm going to take, I'm going to out of spite, take the Christmas song and play it for you guys over and over again. That's a great pull. Which one? Nottie List. Nottie List. Gross. You two haters are listening to Nottie List nonstop.

Gross. I really wanted to take root hours. So if we were doing this in a non-spiteful way, I would have taken root hours. Really want to get there. Let's be safe tonight. And Nottie List never would have been on here. But strip that down, have some. Okay, so Nottie List it is. I have a Louie song to pick. but you've already picked Louis. You're not going double Louis. And then I get a One Direction song or a Harry song. Oh, this is lovely.

You have to take Zane next. So for me, it really comes down to, well, let's get Louie out of the way because I love Louis and I love Back to you. I really love Back to you. I had that marked as a Nathan. And I'm glad that I think you will appreciate it more than I would have appreciated it.

I really am going to enjoy that song. That said, like, that said, if I could have drafted the Walls album as a vibe in that slot, I would have. I really enjoy Walls. I got Walls the song, and that's going to make me super happy. Go ahead, Gallagher sister. So the value pick for me is to take I don't want to live forever. Yeah. Because if I'm being honest, that's the song that I'm going to listen to the most.

Yeah. Here's the thing, though. What? What are you doing? You really got me on Rainberry and I really like it and I'm taking it. Oh! Wow!

Rounding out the top ten! Rainberry! I don't want to live forever on the Taylor side. I'm... I mean, I don't take this the wrong way, but I'm proud of you. Thank you.

That's a really thoughtful and meaningful pick. All right, well, we're at the end of it, and I really have three options as far as I'm concerned. I can take infinity. If I tried, I know it would feel like infinity. I can take story of my life. Or I can take Cherry. And I think if I'm being...

I know what you're going to do. Honest. Like, really, really honest. I have to take Cherry. That's so hot. Because Cherry really is a song that moves me and is one of my probably five favorites, for sure, across the entire catalog.

I just was really hesitant to take two slow Harry-style songs. But I have stripped that down. So we in the club... We in the club with strip that down. We in the club with what makes you beautiful. I'm ready. I feel great about this draft. I miss you.

I should have kissed you. I miss you. I do. I wish you were on my team. But it's probably how you feel watching Tom Brady go to the bucks and win a Super Bowl and then have a bad season and retire. It's like, you know, you're great for so long and it hurts. I'm feeling pretty good about my team.

I got my top two, three, four, five, six, seven. The top seven players on my big board. What did you not get that you wanted? Really. Thank you, Ky, for keeping us on the rails, by the way. God, I can't believe she tried to do that. I kind of think it's still count.

That's fine, but then I get, I should have kissed you the Nathan remix. That's okay. Go ahead. What did you not get? Stockholm Syndrome was the one that hurt. That was eighth on my big board. But only eight.

Yeah. So my big board went night changes, watermelon sugar. At the last second, I realized that there just wasn't a lot of chance that you were going to draft night changes. Right. And I think you could have gone for watermelon sugar. There's a universe in which that happens. Even though I know you're not like totally. I changed seven on my list of 1D songs.

But you knew that watermelon sugar wasn't as important to me. I knew it was important to you. I just really appreciate you leaving steal my girl for me. I couldn't have survived this draft if you took it. That's why I froze up in the first part with Kate. And you knew it too. You saw it. I was like, fuck, if she does this to me,

I mean, that's how low my expectations had to be set and how in my head I was about this shit. I was like, if I just get steal my girl, everything's going to be fine. That's a good life philosophy. Yeah, I'm sad about wolves. I think I listen to San Francisco more than slow hands, although slow hands is,

you're right, it's a party song. Yeah, so my board went, night changes watermelon sugar, slow hands, no control, wolves, Olivia, walls, then Stockholm syndrome, which you got. And then there's a bunch of, songs that neither one of us took in part because there's a one direction glut there. You got what makes you beautiful, which I had 9, 10, 11, 12, 13th on my list.

I should have kissed you. Came right after that for me, but I nabbed that. Because I had to take something away that you were going for. And then Rainberry and then, well, I went off board with, with. Liam. Yeah, you did, didn't you? If you had to cut something. From my draft? Like, if, or if you could only keep five, like, is there anything? Well, we can't because they need eliminate the solo stuff. So it doesn't really work. I mean, look, if you gave me three more slots, I'm really surprised you didn't take, they don't know about us. I'm surprised you didn't take temporary fix.

I thought those were really going to be in your wheelhouse. The one that I would have gone for pretty quickly that has a little bit of the same vibe as the songs that you're listing is Where Do Broken Hearts Go. Yeah. And Kate talked about that. Like I think maybe story of my life I think is important to One Directions overall trajectory.

Right. Where Do Broken Hearts Go is a song that I like a lot more. I like story of my life. But where to broken hearts go gets a lot more plays for me. Well, I'll miss infinity because I like infinity. Story of my life, I feel like, is a weird omission by us. But I also think as people think about this draft order, remember, that's the fun of the game.

Like, there's actually strategy in it. Like, Cherry is a top five song for me. I just knew that she was going to take watermelon sugar off the board and that Girl Crush was the only one that she might grab as well. So I took that early. but I think like I definitely like San Francisco more than I like pillow talk and I just took Stockholm syndrome because I thought that's probably one you were going for anyway the strategy in this game is so much damn fun I hope you all play this at home and send us your draft order and we are happy as we have always been to break the ties and vote please do it's an absolute blast and we sort of got out of this unscathed I I think when we finish this pod and I spend the rest of the day

thinking about what I should have done differently because I'm a maniac like that, the I should have kissed you thing will hurt more. But for now, I'm just really happy. I mean, you got me on Liam a little bit. What I'm telling you is I have Stockholm syndrome. What I'm telling you is I have wolves. No, but I mean I actually have Stockholm syndrome.

You're holding me hostage and I'm pretending that I'm happy about it. Same old, same old. All right. This has been every single album One Direction. As always, I'm Nora Princeati. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you so much to Kate Hallowell for joining us for the mailbag section earlier on this episode.

When we are back, it's going to be time to talk about Harry's house, Nathan. Are you excited? I almost drafted as it was. Would that have been okay or not? Totally. it's out there. Yeah. I'm saving draft slots for late night talking.

Yeah, now you are. We'll see how it goes. Can't wait to talk about it. Thank you, as always, to Kai McMullen for producing this episode. And we'll talk to you all soon.