Every Single Album - Mailbag: The Summer Touring Landscape, Taylor Swift Wedding Watch, and What's on Our Summer Playlist

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

Nora and Nathan open up the mailbag and answer questions about why so many artists are now selling tickets for their tours before their albums are out (1:00), whether or not Harry Styles will get an invite to Taylor Swift's wedding (23:03), and what songs have stuck with them throughout the year (39:37).Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and 54% of leading positions held by women, diversity is a strength that helps L'Oreal Group create the best beauty products for all people. Visit L'Oreal.com to learn more. Hello and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Pryanti and as always, I am joined by my pal Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, it is Friday, May 1st as you and I are sitting here. Oh, no, I didn't want you to tell them that.

I was going to fake like you're on honeymoon. I was going to ask you how your honeymoon's going. How's the honeymoon? I loved the wedding. I had so much fun. Weird solo guy at your wedding. I'm sorry for the table dancing. First of all, never apologize for table dancing.

Be glad I kept my shirt on. You're at a good table, Nathan. You're at a good table. Let me just tell you you're at a good table. Uh-oh. I can't keep up a farce for an entire podcast episode. So let's be truthful with the people. All right.

As you listen to this, I am on my honeymoon. But as we record this, I am not. It is Friday, May 1st. What the fuck am I doing? What are you doing? What are you going to do with May? What are you going to do with all this time with your one wild and precious life? I don't know.

The Nathan Hubbard Solo show has been canceled, not approved. Not by me. That's true. The, by me. What am I doing in May? Who wants to hang out in May? Kaya, what are we doing? I'm just going to call Kaya.

Be like, hey, what's up? You want to hear me talk some bullshit for 45 minutes? Are you good? I give you permission. If you have like strange random musings about the state of the music industry and the various players, you can drop me a line. No, I'm not bothering you. Well, you guys actually will have to keep me updated if like Taylor Swift does anything crazy. Okay.

Well, you know what's happening right now? There's a new Gracie song that's out. Taylor Swift, whatever fuckery she was hinting at with this Toy Story movie and everything else has brought the bullshit back into your life. Thank you, Taylor. We will talk about it before it actually, before you actually are off, we will have had an opportunity to talk about it. I believe that the people, the listeners, brilliant as they are, are going to be able to keep the situation with the dates. I do too. Straight in their minds. All of which is to say, we're here to record a mailback. Oh, yeah.

We've requested and received many excellent questions. we have. And we took this opportunity to go a little off the wall with them. We've got some just sort of random stuff that people were curious about that I thought would spark interesting conversation. There are a couple questions that have come to us this week are things that we want to address. But open your hearts to the possibility that somewhere over the course of this episode, one or both of us will say something. thing that by the time you hear this in the middle of May is wildly out of date and sounds patently ridiculous. Cold takes. Freezing cold takes. Maybe they won't. Maybe it'll all be perfect.

But, you know, Taylor's posting countdowns. There's maybe something with Toy Story. We live in fear of getting poo craved. Who's to say what's going on? So we ask for your general. as we go through this exercise. Give your favorite free podcaster's grace. We're trying our best here, guys.

We really are. We're trying our best. With all that said, shall we begin? Let's go. Okay. The first question, this is not stuck in a moment in time. It is from Tiny Isis, and it is what was each of your first concerts? My first concert, my parents took me to see Bob Dylan at, yeah, in Washington, D.C. That's a good answer.

It coincided with my first beer. I think there was like a 45-year-old woman who handed me like a lukewarm Miller Light. And I really have struggled with beer ever since. Did you feel like, what was your experience of the concert? How did you experience Dylan? This guy cannot sing. But it got me intrigued. You were like, what's all the fuss about?

A little bit, yeah. It wasn't like, I got the energy of crowds. I got, and I definitely sort of fell in love with it in that way. I didn't fall in love with Dylan. And I still have a appreciative respect. for his songwriting and I think a healthy skepticism of him as an artist

who could have thrived in any other era because of that experience. Sure. Were you, did you know that you were really into music at the time that you went already? Yeah, I mean, I was like taking pretend album cover shots in my room by myself.

Yes. that's amazing like what like nope that's all we're going on today okay okay it was at wolf trap which is outside of dc and it's this great little amphitheater outside it's pretty summer concert thing yeah that's really where i i sort of fell in love with what it means for people to come together but interestingly it didn't really make me fall in love with the artist i've gone to see plenty of concerts that have made me fall in love with the artist Did you go in New Hampshire? Where would you have seen your first show?

Well, so I sort of have two answers to this. My parents are classical musicians. So, like, all of my actual first concerts were going to the symphony with my family in various capacities. Okay. My first concert that, like, I was the driving force behind was when I was in high school. And it was supposed to be, it was this weird, like, three-headed monster tour of Maroon Five. Because when I was 11 to 14

I was so into Maroon 5. I was like upsettingly into Maroon 5. There's no shame. Yeah. No, I mean, to this day, great songs. Very big band that actually went away, like had a follow-up album that did not do anything, and then came back.

Like one of the very few to survive the sophomore album slump, and come back with a bunch of hits. I mean, thank you moves like Jagger. Thank you, all that other shit. A very interesting case study in that band. Yeah. So I loved Maroon 5. And Maroon 5 was going on tour with Train and Gavin de Grau.

Nice. I played a concert with Train once. Really? I opened for Train. Wait, that's crazy. I didn't know this. Yeah, yeah. Wow.

Well, you could have... Another podcast. In it... Okay. We'll circle about. to that at some point. My mind is kind of blown. There's sort of a weird sliding doors of

probably the timeline is not quite right but in another world you might have wound up opening for this concert because it was supposed to be Maroon 5, train, and Gavin de Grave. But then Gavin deGra got hit by a taxi and he was fine

but it was like the morning of the concert he was coming from New York. That guy's had a lot of bad things happened to him. And he got nicked by a cab somewhere in Manhattan. Well, he got attacked, too. I mean, God, wow. Yeah. Wrong place, wrong time for that guy sometimes.

And I'm telling you, Gavin de Grau, he played in like 2004 or 2003. He was Clive Davis's guy at the Grammy Party. Like he was, and that album, what is the name? It's Sherriott. Yeah. I love that. That's a great album. That is a great album.

It is a great album. And in fact, it was on the list of something I might have given you for an album swap. Sherriott is a for real song. That song killed me the first time that I heard it. Yeah. Yeah. No, Gavin DeGra was great. I was really excited to see all of them.

But then, as previously mentioned, Gavin deGra didn't end up coming. So who stepped in? Because he'd gotten hit by cab. I don't think anybody. Was it me? Did. I don't, like, could have been some out? I don't think it was.

I think they just, I think because they already had two artists, they just sort of ran with it. Okay. And it was in Hartford, Connecticut. But that was the first show. Play drops to Jupiter twice. Twice. Yeah, just circle it back three times if you want. It was in Hartford, Connecticut.

And I had, like, it was the first time that I had. At that amphitheater? Yes. Yeah. Gotten tickets. like my mom dropped us off. And that was my first one. And it was great.

Here's the question about concerts in the present day. That actually is something that has popped into my mind a fair bit. Okay. I'm seeing in your face that you have something you want to say. I just want to know how many concerts you think you actually went to before college. Like pop concerts? Yeah. No.

Five? Five, maybe, not a lot. Okay. Not a lot. Part of that, like, I think a little bit as geography. I think a little bit is how my school worked. Yeah. But I also think that, like, this is one of my sort of pet topics.

Kids didn't use to go to pop concerts in the same way that they do now. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I'm thinking about, like, what concerts did I go to before, like I went to see La Love it at Red Rocks. I saw Peter Gabriel

in Switzerland. I saw a couple of Grateful Dead shows because like we would just go and sit in the parking lot and then, yeah, shit like that.

Like I don't feel like I did like big time. Because concerts just, it's like from there on things started to really ramp up and then you have Napster in 2004. Right. And people didn't have the same relationship in general, I think, with concerts necessarily. 100%. It wasn't as socially. No way. It wasn't a thing. And technology then created a bigger, better show. And artists needed the money from the road. They were only touring once every four years. They were really touring and supported the music. And then as music lost its value, the concert became a bigger thing and started to sort of take over a much higher percentage of people's disposable income anyway.

Nobody asked for a history lesson, Nathan, continue Nora. Why is there a trend now of dropping concert tour tickets before the album is out? This is from C.C. Berg, 27. It's a really good question, and I don't have the answer. At this point in my life, I feel like I know a ton about the live event industry just because of the rooms that I've sat in. And any just normal process of osmosis would have meatloaf knowing a lot about, not the guy, the actual like. food would have absorbed enough being in those rooms. So I feel a little bit dense telling you that I don't know the answer,

but I think it is this. There is so, just as there is so much music on Spotify right now, and it's so hard for artists to break through and create an actual, you know, sort of pierce through culture. There are also lots and lots and lots of concerts that go on sale, that are competing for your dollars. There is only a, you know, there's a finite number of concerts

that each person is going to go to. And I think the name of the game now is to get up as soon as possible because the sales curve looks like a you. But like, it almost looks like a, I don't know, like the Grinch who stole Christmas's smirk, which is to say,

it's really flat in the middle and then turns up steeply on the ends as if you grafted over time. When the on sale, happens, there's lots of sales, and then it flattens out for a long, long period of time. And then really only I mean, the

over half of the secondary market activity for a show happens in the last 48 hours. Most of it does. And so there is this initial flash, then it's flat, and then boom, there's a big uptick at the end. And generally, the promoters and the artist want as much time as possible

for two reasons. One is just, hey, we want to be able to cut through culture and sell and be on sale so that as people are Googling wherever they're going to be, you know, over the summer or in November next year, or if they love this artist that they get the tickets. You know, there's a little bit of a cynical view, which is that the promoter gets to hold on to your cash for a while, and people get pissed off about that, and I understand it, right? They're basically sitting, it's kind of a free loan, interest-free loan that gets given to the concert business. And by the way, to be clear,

in a lot of cases, that cash has gone out the door to the artist. So it's really an interest-free loan to the artist in a lot of cases. If not 100%, you know, some percentage of the overall sales will get given to the artist either as a guarantee or whatever. So that's the only reason that I really can come up with is why they would go in advance. And I think it also just speaks, Nora, to the reality that if you draw the pie chart of an artist's revenue, like 15% of it, 10 to 15% of it comes from recorded music, 70 to 80% of it is coming from touring. And And so it's really that touring is now the central focal thing for the artist. It's the most important thing that goes into world building.

It's the way that they make their money. They're really releasing music in support of the tour. And so making that tour clear and having it be a part of the album release cycle so that as there's all this news and press and everything, everybody talking about the new music, that there are touch points and connectivity points back to the tour, I think that's really the answer. It also seems like Because there are so many tours Because artists tour more frequently

Tours are long I would I would wonder if some piece of it doesn't have to do with the fact that You know I wonder if venues book out a little bit earlier Because there's just so much demand for We have to find dates We have to figure out where we can put on this show Because we know that there are

and other shows that are going to be sort of in the same ecosystem around the same time and looking for dates and looking for venues. And then once you have the arenas, stadiums, whatever venue it is, once you have those booked, you have more insight into this than I do. And I think this sounds like what you were just describing. But all of a sudden, then you have contracts. Then people start wanting the cash flow to start happening. And you start doing all the things that you need to do to set things.

things up. And so it just like pushes everything earlier and earlier and earlier. I will say it like it has become, I don't quite know when this happened. I don't know if you have a sense of that either because I feel like it didn't used to be like this. And now all of a sudden, something about the Harry album and on sale and the Olivia one, like it's just been very front of mind to me recently that, yeah, I'm like, mark in 10 a.m. on my calendar so that I have my Amex. and can do the presale, and I'm ready to, you know, drop however many hundred bucks on this thing. And I haven't heard the music. Yeah, maybe that's some of the point, right?

Like, I hope you don't hate it. So I just want you to, you know, it has been this slow acceleration, and in particular in the last five years coming out of COVID, when there was just this boom in people wanting to get out of their homes and go connect with other people just to feel that. And we say this a lot here, like human beings are chemically wired to be together. They are. And so that, um, the easiest and best way to do that in a moment that felt safe and, um, celebratory was in live events. And frankly, if you looked at the analysts that followed public companies in this space, they all thought,

oh, there's going to be this boom. And then it'll start to die back down as people sort of stop yoloing with their money. Well, no. It turns out that that's become inculcated. culturally in a lot of young people and that they just have sort of permanently shifted a larger percentage of their disposable income to live events. And so accordingly, as a promoter and an artist, there's more competition. So you're going to go up sooner to try to be the first one out, right? Like the on-sale season used to be in February, March, January, at earliest for the summer concert season. Now people are putting stuff on sale in the fourth quarter or sooner, right? I mean, Olivia's tour is going to go up for, you know, events in, like her Los Angeles shows are in January of next year, right?

And that's considered totally normal. There was a while when Elton John put up a tour that was a year in advance. There were some other things that were going up big shows that were like a year in advance. And there was some initial balking and, you know, hemming and hawing about it. But here's the reality. Artist is a non-scalable resource can only play so many shows when there's more demand than there is. supply, then you've got to, you know, it's in the artist's sort of obligation to try to meet that. And that's not to say they have to go up a year in advance, but you're right. Like, there's only so many days. Imagine if you want to play Madison Square Garden in October, it ain't happening because there's going to be Knicks games and there's going to be Harry Styles. And the rest of y'all can

fuck off. And so you got to find another time to come through in the fall. And that's a big blocker for a tour that was going to roll through in the fall. It's like, shit. Well, we either got to go to Brooklyn or we got to wait to play the world's most famous arena. Right. And if what you're choosing there is that you're going to wait, then you're talking to the garden people and they're saying, okay, you can come through the following May or the following September even. And if you make that deal, then you have your date. Yes, it's very far away. But then once that's in, yeah, you're going to be, it's going to seem reasonable and it's going to be incentivized to then say, okay, we have the date booked. Let's try to sell some tickets for this thing. But it just all, it does all accelerate. It also like, you know, sometimes when you're as a consumer, sometimes when you're planning your life, you're sort of like, oh, God, like five months ago, I bought tickets to this thing that I've forgotten about. But now, like, do I have to say I can't go to this thing because I'm supposed to, you know, go to the Barclays Center for whatever?

And it's had me thinking recently about trying to have a little bit more restraint and self-control to say, okay, if a concert to me seems life-changing and like something where I deeply, deeply want to be in the audience for something, then I'm pulling out all the stops. I'm going to sign up for all the pre-sales. I'm going to set my alarms. I'm going to do everything that I possibly can. But to try to differentiate between the ones that are like that and the ones that would just be nice to be there and that I'm interested. And then those maybe play a little bit more of the waiting game because there's just so much about doing it at the moment of on sale, including the experience of it, including how far in advance it is, often now including that you haven't heard the music. And maybe, you know, I can't say that I've ever bought tickets for something before hearing the album. been like, shoot, I don't want to go. But... But...

Yeah. It just... It makes me think twice about which side of that you is better to be on. And of course, the downside of being on the within the 48 hours side

is you're more susceptible to the whims of the secondary market. Well, that's it, isn't it? That's where the secondary market fills in. And that's why what happens at that front part of that U is a lot of brokers when they can break through, grabbing tickets, and holding, hoping that they just bought dollar bills for 50 cents.

And that as we get closer to the time, there's going to be more noras who waited and who are coming in and where the price they're going to be able to get something higher. Now, what ends up happening in practice is the graph or the line of the graph of price through time often starts high and starts to get lower through time, unless it's a really big high demand thing. Taylor Swift was an example of this. But a lot of times at on sale, if you go into the secondary market and there's tickets for sale, why are you buying a year in advance? Because what they're doing in that moment, the brokers, is they're fishing for suckers. They're looking for somebody who has so much disposable income

and is so fucking rich that they just don't give a shit. They just want to get tickets. In a lot of cases, those guys don't even have tickets in hand. They'll post something, depending on local laws, that says here's a, you know, a ticket in row five for $15,000 because they know, they understand the market and know that they can go get a ticket in row five from somebody for less than $15,000 and make money. So that early on-sales section, if you don't get those tickets, the general right thing in primary, you shouldn't go buy in the secondary market right then and there. You should wait and see how the market dynamics play out because most of the time, you're going to be taken advantage of by somebody who has, you know,

pretended to be somebody else, pretended to be a real fan and grab those tickets. All right. Here's the one that I think you were alluding to and you said that I keep texting you about this. It's from Michaela 2323.23. Will Harry be at Taylor's wedding with? This is not the one, but I know that you want to talk about this. So let me open the floor. will Harry be at Taylor Swift's wedding.

I don't think so. Because Zoe won't be invited or because Zoe's going solo? I bet Zoe goes solo. Because even if, don't you think that even if, maybe he is invited, maybe she goes, you know, Zoe Kravitz plus one. I mean, if it's an MSG like we do. I mean, fuck. we don't get the invite and it's an MSG, I'm going to be bummed.

I personally do not think that that is in store for me, but I wish you nothing but the best. Because here's the thing, is that, like, I think that you just, wouldn't he just bow out respectfully? Wouldn't he just, like, have a prior engagement, you know? I think if they are normal, functional friends, Taylor and Zoe will talk about this

and Taylor will be direct and explicit about what she wants. I think the much more interesting question is will Blake and Ryan be at this wedding? Yeah. I think the answer is no. Yeah. I think it's over.

I think it's the craziest shit is that if I'd told you two years ago that Harry Styles would be at the wedding and Blake and Ryan would not, you would not have believed me. Yeah, it's really But you know, look, life is long, things change But you're right, it is surprising

I mean, even the feeling of like Blake not being a bridesmaid Or not being in sort of a central role is kind of How is she going to pick bridesmaid? She's got 11 million friends This is a hard job for her You kind of know who the core people are though Do we? Like, it's going to be Heim times three.

Is it? I don't think time times three. I don't know. I'm not in the meetings. You don't think Heim times three. I think there might be a sister. Okay, but you can't do one Heim sister and not. Well, this is the problem with being Taylor Swift.

This is why this wedding is going to be at MSG and like there's just going to be randos who are at this wedding. I don't think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, three. I think Ashley, I think... I think Abigail, I think Selena, I think Gigi Hadid. Okay, but not any of the backup dancers, not... No. Do I think they'll be guests? Yes. Do I think they'll be bridesmaids? No. Like, I just think that there are graceful ways for Harry to bow out if that's not something that

he wants to be involved in. I just think about that interaction that they had at the grand last, not this past, but the year before. And it seemed cool. They had a conversation. They were cool with each other. It seemed like it was cool in the in the 2021, where, you know, where they were in the masks and stuff. So it seems like they're through it. And if Zoe is now actually engaged to Harry Stott, I mean, it is what it is. At some point, they have, if they are actual friends, and they seem to be actual friends who have stayed in each other's houses, there was some conversation over the course of the last nine months between the two of them about the relationship and making sure it was cool. Yeah. I have you ever dated any of your friend's exes? I'm not Zoe

no, but I'm not Zoe Cravitz and Taylor Swift. Like I just don't also Zoe Cravitz seems kind of strange to me to be honest. Like I just don't feel like I understand the contours of that relationship. of that particular friendship. I also, like, I don't know that I could handle someone losing their snake in my hole. Like, that might not be something that I could. Well, and that's an interesting point, because the way that Taylor has told that story suggests, there wasn't consultation in advance about the snake being there.

And so maybe it is the dynamic of their relationship that just like she showed It's actually not at all about something that I would incredibly respect is if it has absolutely nothing to do with this man and it is about the unauthorized snake. Yeah. But like, just like Zoe shows up with a fucking snake and doesn't tell anybody, maybe she shows up with a hairy and doesn't tell anybody. Well, no one who's not on the list is getting into this wedding. Here's the other thing that I want you to consider.

That's exactly right. They're going to be fully vetted. Re, Harry, but also Blake and Ryan. I think eventually there will be things that trickle out about who is there and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But just as the possibility that, like, we're not really going to know. Because what I will say is that, like,

there are several rumors currently about where they might have it if it's in New York City. The garden is one. The Park Avenue Armory has become another one. People are not keeping their damn mouth shut. These are places with roofs. These are places where, like,

drone photography, anything like that is just simply not an option. You cannot open yourself to drones for this wedding. It has to be undercover. It's going to, yeah.

It's going to be a covered event. And... Well, where else in New York could it be open? I mean, like on either a roof deck or central park. Yeah, or like places where it becomes

a little bit harder to get in without some openings. I don't know. The thing that made me kind of get on board with all the New York speculation was the page six thing about Michael Rubin changing the date of his white party, which was speculated to be so that guests wouldn't have to choose. There was something about that that just made me think, okay, I guess that kind of only makes sense if it's for one reason and if it's for this reason. if the false flagging extends to doing that, I would, the round of applause that I would give them,

that would be incredible. And just going to those lengths to just take this for yourself. There's a lot of athletes. Yeah, but like, what athletes are really coming to this wedding? Do you think Steph Curry's coming to this wedding? Oh, no. Do you think Tom Brady's coming to this wedding?

No, but I think that, I think Patrick and Brittany, are coming to the wedding? Of course. I think. But they don't need to go to, like, Michael Rubin can have his party without them. I don't disagree with that. I just don't know that there's another great explanation for why that would be moved. I mean, Michael's a busy man. He's got, he's running multi-billion dollar companies. He's got all kinds of

things. That party itself has been under a lot of scrutiny. He's, you know, there's all kinds of reasons why they do that. Yeah, but it's not like he's not having it. He's just moving the date of it. Yeah, but also like around the SBs, they do. do their fanatics fan fest, which inexplicably I'm giving free publicity to at the moment, but like it's an event that they do in New York. Yeah, the fanx fan fest, of course. It's like a collectible conference that I think is around that week in July. So it may, I, I am, it would not surprise me at all if he moved it so that people who come in for that party also then blend into

their collectible, you know, convention week and that they can just sort of, you know, It can be bait to get people to that event. He's a very smart guy in the way that he brings people into his universe. I guess all there is to do for us is to find out. I am with you that if it were all a big bait and switch, I think that would be really fun. What a fucking rabbit hole we just fell down. We're going to go down another one in a second,

but actually I have a different question first. Okay. A silly one for Nathan. Are there any celebs who are actually good at golf? That is from M. Walton 22. This is the one where I've added my... own addendum, which is that I want you to rank a top three golfers from the music world. Oh, okay. Yes, there are lots of celebs that are good at golf, and there are actually some

decent musician golfers. Kenny G. Is in... Heck yeah. I mean, listen, have you watched that man play the sax? Like, he's got really good hands, and he is very good at golf. I think he actually won the AT&T. There's a pro-am that happens at Pebble Beach during the regular PGA tour event. He is good at golf. Steph Curry is awesome at golf. This is why I said from the music world.

I don't, athletes are different. Okay, fine. So music world, Kenny G. is good. Vince Gill is an excellent golfer. Justin Timberlake is a pretty good golfer. He shows up at that Pebble Beach thing and plays. my guy, Zach Topp, is a very good golfer. Our guy, Marcus Mumford.

Marcus Mumford is an annoyingly good golfer. He tells you how terrible he is, and then he steps out. And in his most proper British accent, feigns surprise at how good he is. Yeah, I mean, that's, there are a lot of country. Nile Horan, well, I was building to that, which is Harry Styles. I am pretty sure is really good at golf. His manager, Jeffrey Azov, is excellent at golf. And I believe that they play enough together. And we've heard enough stories about Nile, who is a golf fan and actually started as part of Modest, the company that manages him, they started a golf or management

firm as well. Yeah, Nile's good at golf. I bet Harry, just like people who are athletic like that and just can move, like in a fluid way and have great body control. Golf is hard in that way, but people who have really good control of their extremities are generally awesome at golf. Top three. I mean, I think you can only pick three from that list. It's Kenny G., it's Vince Gill and Timberlake.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. But I would love to see a Harry Styles for, versus Justin Timberlake one-on-one, like the match Thanksgiving thing, that we can bet on. This is how I get into golf. See what I'm saying? Grow the game.

Live might be dead. Live might be completely collapsing because the Saudis have defunded it. But this is how we actually grow the game. Is it Harry versus Timberlake? Solo guys who made great careers out of boy bands golf off. I actually, it would be really interesting to see those two in conversation or golf with each other. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, no, you're really on something.

All rights reserve for the ringer. The every single album, Golf Invitational. All right. Seeing as Olivia is sticking with arenas, what will be the next stadium tour? That's from R. Dodkowitz. What do you think? It's, yeah, this is a hard question. There are a few people who are going to do stadiums in 2026 who I just don't really feel like are the answer to the spirit of the question.

And those are, you know, the Ed Chirons and the Bruno Marses and where it feels a little bit more legacy than something new. Someone who's an interesting question for me, it seems like from what I can tell, Ariana Grande, who has just announced a new project pedal, is everything that she seems to have booked is in arenas. But she was someone who popped into my head just as a pop act who's like really kind of, kind of super famous in a way that touches a bunch of different quadrants in ways that like

even someone like Olivia you don't necessarily get to. Did anyone pop up for you? I mean, I think it's less of a distinction at this point because there's so many people now who are finding ways to play stadium shows. I mean, I think Lord is playing SOFI in L.A. Yeah, it's wild. So like, and that's not any kind of knock. It's just like.

So the flip side is like Harry could do stadiums. Harry's doing a bagillion arena. Sabrina could do stadiums. Gracie and some markets, I bet, can do stadiums. Olivia could attract stadiums. Now, you need a show that is fit for that and that can service 80,000 people, which is different than the, you know, 12 to 18,000 in an arena. It just requires different stuff depending on the artist, right?

I mean, that act that we just saw Bieber do at Coachella, could that ultimately go into stadiums as is? Maybe. I mean, maybe. I bet in major markets he could just go with the big, you know, white-looking, whatever those circles were and his YouTube account and go do it. I think the question is what you want to leave people feeling like they had. So I'm not trying to dodge the question.

leave people feeling better. Like, if you're Bieber, I think you leave people feeling better if instead of doing that, you do five nights at... Yeah. ...whatever arena, as opposed to one or two at a stadium. The problem with the stadium show is

it has to be about a really big communal experience because you're just not going to see the artist well from the upper deck. You just aren't. And that's okay because you can have a great time if the screens are really big. witness the eras tour. Like people had an awesome time up there.

But the community was part of the situation, right? So the answer is I don't know that there's anything where you're going to be surprised. Gracie's coming back. Does Phoebe come back this year? I don't expect that she's going to do stadium shows this year, but that is on the table, depending on how it goes because I think she and the Boy Genius thing and everything else were just that big. Yeah, and that's a good, it's a totally different vibe because it's not about the bells and whistles and the pyro and the fireworks. No.

But there is something that really leans into a communal experience about what that show maybe ends up being, where people are happy to be, people are happy to be outside. Yep. And they're happy to be together. And so that's, I actually, I really like that answer. I think that's a good answer. Okay, well, the only other note that I'll just make for people in their own minds to distinguish, like there's a difference between Noah Khan playing Fenway and Noah Khan playing Foxborough, which is to say the difference in capacity between most baseball stadiums is significantly smaller.

It's about half or less a quarter of a football stadium. So it's really, when an artist goes into giant stadium in New York, Foxborough and Boston, SoFi and L.A., right? Soldier Field in Chicago. That's when you go, holy crap, okay, this person needs to accommodate large, massive amounts of demand. 60, 70,000 people a night, generally. Correct. One day, you're negotiating with suppliers. The next, you're installing a shelf in the back room. Running a business means moving in many directions all the time.

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Wait, for this price? Moment. Old Navy's drapeed denim wide leg All right Here's the one where we get to go down another rabbit hole Okay Taylor countdown on her website came and went Conspiracy Corner Question mark question mark question mark

That was from M. Wolkoff I'm not doing this we're going to look so dumb It's May 1st Some shit is definitely going on Of course when we saw her go into San Vicente West Village there was something, you know, it was intentional.

Of course, somebody, maybe somebody unintentionally triggered a countdown clock. We're going to find out. I don't want to say anything else on this other than. So there was a countdown clock. No, no, no, no, we're going to do it. Why? There was a countdown clock on her website.

We always look so dumb. Which you and I, we were just going to tell it like it is. This is what we know right now. This is what we know to be true. We're texting. You and I and Kaya are going, wait, everybody's saying there's the countdown clock.

And then we go, And none of us can see this countdown clock. I'm like on the website, I'm scrolling. You're like, did we get poo craved? But then Kaya's like, no, it's not, but it's not there anymore. And apparently, from what we know now, the clock was against a backdrop that had the same clouds as are on the Toy Story poster. Clouds. And also we're on that background in the Opelite video.

Yes. And also match the colors of the dress that she walked at... This drives me insane. It's nice. So it's the dress and then the dress, the lady Dior bag, and her shoes all fit into the color scheme of Toy Story. This then leads to my favorite piece of speculation that Kaya brought to her attention.

Kyra, yes. That the voice actors who voiced... Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head have both sadly passed. And therefore, there was some speculation that Taylor and Travis could be lending their voices to the film as Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head. And I want you to understand something. I'm all fucking in. They should be Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head.

It's fantastic. They have to be Mr. and Mrs. Potato. And now that I'm aware of a world in which Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey are voice acting as Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head, I actually can't bear for that not to happen. Well, I hope your honeymoon is great because I got you, Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head, Taylor Swift, Travis Kelsey. I do actually need you to let me know if this happens. When does Toysburg come out? I don't even know. Not until June. Not till June. Okay. So I'll be fine. But we're going to know,

we're going to know soon. And the thing about it is... June 19th. Yeah. The thing about it is, if you think about those characters, now maybe they're going to play them differently. But in the movie, my recollection is that Mr. Potato Head is a bumbling buffoon. And Mrs. Potato Head is actually mildly domestically violent with Mr. Potato Head in the way that she manages his absolute buffoonery. And so the idea of Taylor just absolutely ripping into Travis

as a preview of what it's going to be like when we're 30 years down and they've both retired and Travis is sitting around being goofy laughing at some stupid fucking meme about babies, you know, AI babies walking around bumping into each other or whatever and Taylor's just pissed because he won't take out the fucking trash. It's going to be priceless. I think they should do it.

I think it's a great idea. I also, you know, if she was, the other idea that has now been planted in my brain by the internet is a Taylor Swift cover of you've got a friend and me. which would be lovely. It's very sweet. Taylor Swift covering anything would be great. But produce of Kaya may cut this entire part if we get there and we've just been horribly wrong.

But I'm excited about it. It is, listen, I kind of envision them like the two old guys and the Muppets up in the corner, just like fucking ripping on everything that happens in the whole movie. I'm all in on them. And if they become like a comedy duo that gets inserted into movies and very, ways from here on out. I'm all in. This is terrific. It's a great idea. It's great casting, whether by an actual casting director or by the internet. From Kate Rollo, in a retrospective of the past couple of months or year, what is still on your

regular playlists? What do you got? I mean, I kind of have one answer to this and like one clear number one answer to this, and it's Audrey Hobart. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm listening to Audrey Hobert a lot. Do you know why? Because it's good. Correct. It's fucking awesome. Because the music is good and she is cool and I like her.

Exactly. That is a great answer and that sticks with me. Listen, there's little songs that have percolated through the playlist stuff for me. We've talked about them. I love dopamine from Robin. I love Nightingale Lane from Ray. You know, there's some other stuff that we've talked about this. this winner that, you know, I've liked that hasn't like totally hung with me. Like, I haven't

gone back to. I mean, we're a few days removed from our conversation about the Noah Khan album. I've spoken highly of it to other people that I've talked about, just like socially, but I haven't actually gone back. I also haven't had like an outdoor hang session with somebody to sort of put it on in the background, right? But yeah, I had to. dinner at a friend's house last night and they were playing some of it just like a few songs were added to a playlist and it was nice.

Yeah, but I'm with you in terms of like actually shaping my Spotify algorithm, it's Audrey Hobart. Yeah. It's the Hobbes. And she's now got her brother, Malcolm Todd, by the way, just covered the song Phoebe

for like a BBC thing or something which was cool. And he's He's got a song, he's got a song called Breathe that is starting to go. So the dynamic duo of Palisadian kids, uh, from, from Pacific Palisades in L.A.,

that's Audrey and Malcolm, seem to be like on to something. That's very cool. Oh, this is one that I, that I need your help on. Okay. This is from Dichter Danny. Okay.

The Spotify stock sales. How it's helping artists and what role Taylor plays. in it. Yeah, I think Well, and should we let's say that I think this is in reference to some news from this past Wednesday, again, we're recording this on May 1st,

that UMG is selling half of its 3% stake in Spotify, and there are some trickle effects to artists from that that you will now illuminate us on. Well, I mean, not wholly, because I don't pretend to have my arms fully around it and certainly wasn't in the room on the Taylor thing. I think, you know, in the aggregate, this was equity that Universal got in exchange for helping to build Spotify into what it became by giving what is the largest catalog of recorded music in the world to Spotify.

Warner got some, Sony got some. Those are the three big major labels. There are some others who got some equity in Spotify, which was a smart business move by Daniel Eck. and his investors to align incentives and to say, hey, when we win, you win, it was a reasonable ask from the majors. And it's a thing that's now we're seeing get repeated in the negotiations with AI music companies like Suno and some others, where the labels are saying, okay, you can have access to the intellectual property that we have ownership in, but we've got to be successful when you're successful. And that means you've got to give us some equity. So that is where this all came from. And that's because Napster did not. Napster just took their catalog and went and did not engage in any kind of partnership way.

But then, of course, the labels got left looking at the outside. And so the lesson for them coming out of the mid-2000s was, okay, fuck, I've got to engage with these forward-facing technology platforms. But I need to get some equity as a result. So the question is, would the labels have distributed? the funds that came in as a result of the stock sale to artists in the absence of Taylor Swift. And Taylor has not made the, well, I guess Taylor did make a statement that part of her negotiating her deal that she signed with Republic when she was out of the big machine contract and basically decided that she was going to own her stuff and distribute through Universal

was that this was a requirement in the same way that she pushed Apple when they were doing the three-month free trial stuff and weren't paying artists, she said, no, no, you have got to pay artists fully, not just me, but all artists. So I think... To my understanding, her specific point,

and I believe when she did that deal, it was right around the time when there had just been, at a smaller scale, but there had been some similar sales that had affected Sony Warner artists, and one had gone one way and one had gone the other way. I forget which, but the difference was that if an artist still had anything that was to be recouped by the label,

like if they owed anything based on their contract, one of those labels, the way that they'd done the deal, said that when we go make these payouts to artists based on the sale that we're making, it goes against that recoupment. So if you still owe, we're taking that out. We're taking that of it. Right. And then the other one, we'll give me 30 seconds to just say, to just say, the way for people who are listening, the way these deals will work is I'm an artist, I sign to a record label, they give me an advance, they give me a check right up front, they give me $400,000 or a million dollars, and then they make up that money through streams. Once I release the album in six months or a year, whenever, all the Spotify payments that come in go

to the label until they've made back the money that they advance the year. artist. And then going forward, we split that money in whatever way the deal term says. Now, what happens at the end of the day is lots of artists don't fully recoup the money that the label gives them. And so I still, well, I'm not on the hook. I don't have to pay back the money to the label. Money that comes in from Spotify royalties is not coming into my pocket. It's going against the deficit balance. And so, as you were saying, one of the labels said, we're not going to take this money and hand it to the artist, but we will use it. to offset the balance of money to get them back to recoupment.

And I think so when Taylor made that deal, Sony had recently done payouts. And in the case of Sony, they ignored whether or not an artist was fully recouped. So they just gave all of their artists, you know, however it was distributed, all of their artists got some portion of that. Warner had a similar thing going,

but they counted it against you if you hadn't recouped. Right. And I think if you're an artist, you're feeling, and I'm squarely in the artist's camp on this, your feeling is, man, I'm the one who shows up and does the Spotify concert. I go in and I do all the things as part of my promotion to lift the value of Spotify.

And I come into the office and I film the vertical videos and all the little things that make that platform form. Yes. I'm doing the work. You know, give it texture. And so, so I have directly contributed to increasing the value of that stock. And I should participate in that separately. And, and so I think, I think it's a very reasonable thing to do. And, and I think in this, in this era, where it is highly competitive to earn an artist's loyalty to a record label, where labels themselves are having trouble differentiating themselves because so much of what they do, if not has not become fully commoditized, it's become pretty common, right? Labels, you and I are recording this and we can

upload it to Spotify with producer Kai's help in about 15 seconds when we turn off the microphones, right? So distribution is much easier than it ever was. The marketing happens not by way of all kinds of behind the scenes, strings pulling, but the artists through their social accounts directly talking to fans. So a lot of the value that the label used to provide has, has, it's kind of evaporated. And so now that gives artists a little bit more power to say, hey, if you want me to be a part of your ecosystem and you want to have some ownership or just like, you know, term royalty participation in the Spotify revenues for my music in exchange for you, you know, fronting some cash and helping me out in some other ways, you need to pay for that. And I think in the broad scheme of things,

that's a great thing for artists. It would not surprise me at all if Taylor's insistence on getting absolute commitment on that locked in their decision. And what Taylor did, to my understanding, is that when she agreed to her deal with Universal,

she said, if and when you do this, if in when you sell some of your equity or all of it, and make these payouts, you have to do it. it without any mind to where artists are in that recoupment. You have to just not consider that.

And they agreed to do it. And so when they made that sale on Wednesday, we don't have the transparency or the insight to know exactly how many people and how many dollars. But one would figure that there are many artists who will benefit from that because of that decision. And it does seem like her pressure was something that in that moment assured that was the case. You know, maybe they would have come to that decision on their own. Yeah.

But she didn't wait to find out, right? She put the pressure on to make it happen in that moment when she had a lot of leverage. And I think they're happy to give them that credit. One quick coda on this, and it's sort of inside baseball nerdiness, but maybe interesting, is people will have maybe heard that Bill Ackman, made a bid for universal music, or at least overtly, it looked like he was making a bid

to buy universal music a few weeks ago. One of the ways in which he had justified paying the price that he'd put out in this sort of deal structure was going to require them to sell their stake in Spotify. And so for a few weeks later, for them to then announce that they're selling part of their stake in Spotify,

you don't know where these things are going. I don't have inside knowledge of it at all. But it feels like, not a complete coincidence that at the time when somebody comes in making, you know, what from the outside look like a potentially hostile takeover bid, at least not something that the board seemed to be ready to fully embrace, that, you know, selling that Spotify stock maybe was part of a either diversion plan or, you know, de-escalation plan. It also could have just been time. I mean, they've been hanging on to this for a while. Spotify is where it is. And it may be that, you know,

universal from a cash perspective feels like there's some other acquisitions that they can make and they want to fund more artist deals and so on and so forth and that this was ready cash that they're they're ready to sort of take in on because they've made a good investment they've been sitting on it for a while okay this is another one that's kind of in in your wheelhouse this is from mattie lee three thoughts on ticket master canceling harry bought tickets and the new quote requesting tickets plan yeah I'm really happy that I don't have to be the one anymore that speaks on this stuff and leads on this stuff. And so, you know, it's, as I think I've articulated before, it's a really hard problem that's deeply misunderstood by the fan public and that, you know, there's been lots of own goals on lots of sides.

In this case, I think it's something to celebrate and I think it's important for fans to see that, like, it's very much in ticket master's interest and very much. in Harry Stiles' interests, for them to know each individual fan who's going to walk through the gate, they want you as a fan to buy the ticket from them because then they get your email address and they know who you are and they can follow up with an opportunity to, you know, buy merch or buy some other show that you like. They actually really want to know the people who are coming through the shows. And so it is very much in their interest to go through and cancel those guys who snuck through the screening systems. And it's hard, man. It is a, it is anytime you're selling dollar bills for 50 cents, you know, capitalism is like water. It finds the cracks. And so

there is a whole, you know, universal army of bad actors who are trying to slip through the cracks to buy these dollar bills for 50 cents. So they can turn around and sell them to you for a dollar. And so there are ways that said that in, you know, retroactively, that they're, you know, that these guys can use AI and data and all kinds of data science and all kinds of things to suss out some bad actors. And when they do that, cancel the tickets and then try to release them in as fair a way as possible, knowing that there's a ton of demand still and that if you just put them all on sale at one time, that's more of a recipe for a stampede than it is for like a really nice fan experience. So I think that the way in which that they're going to try to release these tickets is

a good faith, good-hearted effort to try to create a more balanced and fair way to put those tickets out. You know, Olivia, I noted, on this tour, is going to do her silver something tickets that they call it, that is basically they're going to withhold some pairs of tickets in the pit, in the second row. Some, by the way, partial view seats. You don't know where you're going to sit, but you know they're going to be $20. And you got to pick them up at the box office, and they tell you the location, I think only when you pick them up. And it's all... I love that, by the way. It's awesome. It's a way to say, if all you care about is getting in, I care about you getting in at a low price, you might have to make some compromises. And that means- You might have to wait in line.

You might have to jump through some hoops, and I'm not going to tell you where they are, but I'm going to get you in at a price that's less than, you know, all this stuff out here. So artists care about that, and they don't want this to be an Elizabethan theater where it's like rich people in their dates in the front and the plebs in the back. They want to build, look, I think that I am the only dad in the world who has kids who have made it into both, the Ares Tour movie and the Billy Ilish Tour movie, okay? My daughters are going to be lifelong fans, and when I tell you that my daughters are badasses, their net worth is going to continue to go up over time, and their lifetime value as Taylor Swift and Billy Ilish fans is going to go up about 100,000 over the next 10 to 20 years. They're going to spend lots of money on these artists,

and they're going to do that because they got into the concert at reasonable prices. And if you just get in that, 16, 18, 14, 8, you know, 20-year-old young person who then falls in love with an artist, unless it's Nathan going to a D.L.N. Concert, in outside of Washington, D.C., generally what happens is they become lifelong fans who are going to spend lots of money. And so you don't try to just extract all the money possible today. You think about the lifetime value of a fan. And in many cases, that's getting the young kid in for as little money as possible. And I genuinely believe, given just like what I've seen, that the artist community wants to do that. And it matters to them very deeply.

They want to know who you are and they want you in the door. Yes, yes, they want to make money. Yes, it's how they make most of their money because they don't make much money when you stream their stuff on Spotify. Yes, they're going to try to take some money from the rich people who are willing to spend it. But that doesn't have to come at the expense as they're finding and working to solve of getting lots people in at more reasonable prices. Why do we not see? Because occasionally

there will be, it seems possible, to do an on sale in a manner where the ticket prices are set by the artist and they can't be resold at a markup. Yeah. Where there is a ticket exchange

and they stay at face value and if you realize you can't go, you can get your money back because you can sell them for what you paid for them, but you can't increase the price. Why is that not? more standard. Because it just feels like that solves so many problems. Yeah, there's two reasons.

The first is local laws that have been infected by the, you know, sort of scalping community that has a lot of money and they spend on lobbyists to try to eliminate the, or create rules that prevent you from restricting the sale, resale of tickets. That's the first reason and the most prominent reason, because the technology is there. Right now, you know, if the artist allows Ticketmaster to turn on, or some ticketing company, any ticketing company, to turn on that face value exchange. It can happen. But, you know, it also means that if you buy tickets, Nora, as we talked about earlier in this section, a year in advance, and you don't really know what you're doing, you know, May 14th, 2027, and suddenly something comes up and you got something else to do.

Like, you need to be able to, you don't need, but you would like to be able to, resubes, those tickets and make sure that you can resell them. And I think for a lot of things... But when I'm in that situation, I don't need to make a profit. I'm just happy to be able to get out of, you know, get out of my commitment. I agree with you on that. I think there's a lot of people who argue that they should be able to sell it for whatever they want because they put the money in. And that's where I think fans have to decide what's most important to them. Is it access to tickets at a reasonable price, or is it the ability to sell those tickets to anyone in any way at any time at any price? And I think, you know, the messaging from artists ultimately has to guide and

lead this and push this hard, because it is the artist at the end of the day who has control over how these things ultimately happen. And so while that sounds like a complicated choice, most of the things that need to be solved at this point are local laws. And then it's on the artist to decide, are they willing to take the occasional complaint on TikTok and Insta and, you know, any other social profile from a fan being like, well, why can't I sell these? You know, I bought these tickets.

Why can't I sell them however I want to? Why do I have to go through a single place? You know, what's up with these restrictions? It takes artists having the fortitude and vision to hold the line. line because they understand that that's in the interest, best interest long term of fans. Interesting. All right. This is going to be our last one.

We talk too much today. This is a question. We got this question in many different versions. And I sort of mish-moshed two of them here. But El Marada said, what is the lineup of approved Taylor's Swift songs for Nora's wedding. And then this one I actually was very interested in from Elfitz 0729. Will you let Nathan do a music recap of your wedding so we can get a little recap?

Is that something you want to take on? I'm not asking permission. I'm doing it. Elfits. I mean, by the time people hear this in the future, my wedding will have happened. It will be in the past. And I will have an enormous number of photos and videos,

only some of which will be shareable, depending on how everything goes. Remember, I am coming in hot and solo. Oh, I know. Listen, I may be in prison by the time this thing is aired. Look, I don't, I will be honest about this. And I'm really scared that I'm going to disappoint people here. Hand to heart, there's not that

much like particular Taylor Swift incorporated into my wedding. What? There's not that much. There's like a normal amount, I think. Okay. The,

I made a playlist for our rehearsal dinner and welcome party the night before our wedding and that includes that includes some Taylor. It does include what I would call sort of like atmospheric Taylor.

Because sometimes, like, one of the, one of the interesting things about, you know. Atmospheric Taylor. Well, like, you can't. I'm taking over Oaks. Interesting about Taylor. No, you know what I'm talking about. It's like, there's only. There's only so many Taylor Slip songs that you can play without it kind of needing to be the center

of attention. Like, if you're trying to just sort of create a vibe, like, what are the songs that are this playlist. August is on it. Cruel summer and getaway car on it because I just love those songs. Yeah. I think last great American dynasty is on the playlist. Then it was bought by me. Maybe Dorothea is on that playlist, but it's like when you're trying to do, you know, everybody mingling and having a nice evening, it doesn't really work to play love story in the middle of that. It's a different thing. Will there be any opportunity for me to sing Taylor karaoke or is that going to have to be when I go out with your friends late night? Well, so it would be,

I think it would be late night. It would be, oh boy, because we have a, we have a band at the reception and like maybe they'll play. I honestly like was not that specific about, I did have a do not playlist and people are going to laugh. It is Ed Shearren and Bruno Mars. Oh, fuck. I thought we were going to get down with a smile. I didn't want to hear any Ed Shear and Bruno Mars, Mr. Brightside or Shout. And that was my do not playlist. That's a good do not playlist. Yeah. It's a good do not playlist. It's just, it's not even like, no, if those are your favorite songs and you want to hear them at your wedding, great. Go to your own wedding. Have fun. It's, I just have had that experience. And I don't need to have.

it again and I don't need to have it at my wedding. But everybody should do make you happy. The craziest shit about this conversation is that people are hearing it. I have already crushed getaway car on OX at your wedding. I have already just dazzled the youngsters at your wedding. But then our after party has a DJ. It is being DJed by my friend DJ Louis, who hosts a great, music podcast, Pop Pantheon.

And we had a conversation and he was like, do you want to do Taylor Swift Power Hour? And I was like, I want you to mix it in, but no, because I need to listen to Nelly for some of that time. And that's what happened.

Well, Nora, the real answer is like, I don't know. I just don't know how much Taylor Swift is going to be part of it. I don't actually know what quantum of time we're in right now, but I want you to know I had a marvelous time. Okay.

Ruining everything. I'm sure everyone looks forward or looks fondly back at your recap. Can you bail me out now, please? It is May 1st, 2006. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Prince-Diotti. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kaya McMullen for producing this episode.

And to you for listening. We'll talk to you. at some other point in time. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different. Locked in. Loyal, invested.

They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo. So, are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify advertising. You're among fans.