Every Single Album - 'Midnight Memories' | Every Single Album: One Direction

Episode Date: April 18, 2022

The boys of One Direction are back just a year after 'Take Me Home' with their new album, 'Midnight Memories,' and they're trying on some rock sounds for size. Nora and Nathan talk about their musical influences for this album (1:00), some of the new collaborators they worked with (21:10), and some of the head-scratching lyrics in these songs (47:18). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, the host of the podcast, Plain English. We tackle technology, politics, culture, history, everything that's happening in the world and why it matters. New episodes of Plain English drop every Tuesday and Friday on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And welcome to every single album, One Direction. I'm Nora Pinceati, and I am here, as always, with Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, it's a Wednesday afternoon. How are you doing? I love KFC, Nora.

I love KFC. I love KFC. Let's go. It's midnight memories time. It is midnight memories time. We're going to talk about One Direction's third album, which was released in November of 2013. So, Nathan, what's going on with our boys in the fall of 2013?

Well, there's a lot of things going on. with our boys. I mean, they are going to debut this album at number one, which is the third time that they've done that in three albums, which makes them the first group in history to do that. Suck up, Danyty Kane.

Yeah, to have some of that. They have the best-selling album of 2013. They sell 4 million copies. They are already getting out a tour that's going to happen in the summer. They have their eyes laser-focused on stadiums. They've played

every other day basically in 2013. And when you add in travel and recording, it's not clear to me what in the hell these guys are doing other than making midnight memories because that's the only time in the day that they have to not be on stage or recording. But Nora, this is a different sounding album than what we've been talking about for the last two episodes, isn't it?

Right. And so that's sort of what's going on with the band. And the funny thing is that what's going on in music, so this ends up being the best-selling global album of 2013. It's followed by Eminem's the Marshall Mathers LP2. I'm beginning to feel like a rap guy, rap guy, all my people from the front to the back. Justin Timberlake's a 2020 experience. Bruno Mars' Unorthodox Jukebox.

Mm, too young, too dumb, too real. I should have bought you flowers. Random access memories by daft punk. We're up all night to get some. We're up all night for good fun. We're up on night. And Katie Perry's Prism. So there's almost nothing you want to be less than a rock band.

And yet that's what One Direction decides pretty wholeheartedly on this album that they want to be. I mean, I think Imagine Dragons is the closest thing to a rock band. you're going to find anywhere near the top of the charts. They're also probably hearing a lot of Mumford, particularly in the UK, and you can end up hearing that on this record. But while they've been operating at this just ridiculously breakneck pace, they're not only churning out more stuff, but I think as we'll hear on this record, trying to change their sound a little bit.

Yeah, I think you're right. It feels like they're borrowing from the female pop stars of the moment and from the male rock stars of the 80s. But these songs have more character. Of not the moment. Of not the moment. Of a very different moment. No, very different moment.

But these songs do have more character. They're less predictable. They're more than about those little chorus hooks. And we'll talk about who were the teams of people working on this and why maybe that was slightly different. They have some thoughtful crafting and chord changes. It's enough to feel fresh, and it's probably not a coincidence that Louis has written nine of the 14 tracks on this album.

Liam gets a credit on eight of the 14, and of the ones that those two boys didn't write together on, Harry Stiles is a writer on two. So they're starting to inject themselves into the music. Now, there is still some question that we should talk about, how much of this change. in direction of one direction, was actually tied to the boys themselves versus the machine that is putting them out on the road

that is in parallel to their live shows, setting up the studio backstage and in the hotel and on the tour bus to record, that is making decisions about the merchandising that we'll talk about. And the misalignment between those two things is where some of the schisms start to happen. And as we get into the end of 2013 and into 2014,

hey, this is their last full year as five guys in a band. And it feels like we just started. Yeah. And just to sort of take everyone into the insanity of that pacing, they'd been on the road for 10 months after the album cycle before this. and they were home for about a month before this album was released. During that tour that they'd come off of, they'd tweeted things like, I mean, Harry at one point,

I think they're in Mexico, tweets, Jetlag took over, I fell asleep on the floor in my clothes, a meter from the bed, so close. Which is funny, right? But then Liam says, trying to sleep through people shouting names, Jetlag hurts at this point. And even Nile, who can't complain about being exhausted without still sounding chipper, at one point posts, long day to day, I'm so tired right now, need to sleep.

Now there's an exclamation point at the end of every single one of those sentences. Because I don't think Nile has it in him to be sort of glum and sleepy. Bullion is his way of being. Natural resting state, right. But then they go back on the road from April to October again. they're all getting to the point where they're pretty over-exposed in tabloids.

Zane and Louis the following year like get caught smoking a joint and cause basically an international incident. Yeah. I do think this raises a lot. My daughter's in love with this man. I mean, you know, it does raise questions. I'm sure a lot of parents are going to have

questions about this. And I wonder what you guys think about it. There's a book. There's a fragrance. There's a fragrance. There's lots of books. There are even more tattoos than fragrances or books. And they're also quasi in sort of like the artist's development business in a weird way.

Because when they go back on tour, they have five seconds of summer. Yes. The sort of Australian pop punky little brother to One Direction who opened for them. And behind the scenes, each member of One Direction, owns a little piece of the LLC behind five seconds of summer. So all of this is happening and they're trying to take this step forward musically. And it's two interesting results, I think. And we can get to categories pretty quickly because I think one of the most interesting

ways that that kind of plays out is in which songs from this album. ended up really, really resonating and getting huge, because I've got to imagine it wasn't quite the ones that they expected. And for the last two albums, the lead single and the first song on the album was pretty unquestionably the biggest hit. And I'm curious if the first song on Midnight Memories, which is best song ever, is your answer for the biggest hit on.

this record because I'm not sure it's mine. Okay. What's yours? I'm going to say best song ever. I mean, look, I think if they're good at one thing, it's that they, and by they, I mean, the entire machine. They know what's going to resonate.

They closed with it on the tour. I know you're going to say midnight memories. They opened with midnight memories in fairness, but this reached number two on the Billboard Hot 100, and that's the highest position that they ever reached. You know, my problem My problem with it is

it just so steals from Baba O'Reilly by The Who. And it is so difficult to hear the song and not wonder did they even know what was being pilfered? And there's a lot on this album

that feels that way to me. But for you, there is a lot of folklore and a lot of fun hijinks around midnight memories. what you think was their biggest hit? It's not. But hold on.

I want to backtrack a little bit. You don't think that they were in on the joke because one of the things that I love about best song ever is the self-awareness of it. Like the self-awareness of I think it went oh-oh-oh. I think it went yeah, yeah. How many One Direction songs are pumped full of those same filler words? Yes.

Everyone is pumped full of that. And let's be mindful that the original version of the album closes with this song Better Than Words that has verses... I mean, at least they just fucking own it on Better Than Words, where they... They just take words from Shakira and Beyonce and Maroon 5 and Lano Richie and Bieber and fucking Boston.

Elvis and Adel and... The Beechies. The Beach Boys. Drake, Narls Barclay, Carrey. Like, they have all of that. So at least there, they just own it. But between the start of this album with Best Song Ever and the finish of the original version with better than words, there are going to be a lot of songs that we have heard directly before and that feel, again,

in the moment of urgency to get something out, to keep the machine churning, to put out this intellectual property that is enabling all of these other revenue streams, the tour, the book, the fragrance, everything, the t-shirts, they are moving super fast and the end result feels fun and familiar in the best ways. But underneath the surface, I think you're going to start to see some of the backlash to the backlash to the thing that's just begun. The backlash to the backlash to the thing that's just begun. Like, people are starting to resent the rise of the band and the way that they've done it. Rolling Stone gave this thing two and a half stars.

And they basically say, like the Supreme Court, one direction wants you to believe that corporations are people too. Yeah, that was the first line of the review. That's not a good review. They joyfully plunder, rock riffs and hip-hop beats, but a logjam of lousy ballads suggests Brian Adams embodies their ideal of maturity. We'll get to Brian Adams. But there is this, you know, the next couple albums that, come out increasingly you're going to have, you know, traditionally thought of as well-respected artists who start to throw little darts at these boys and maybe at the machine that's churning

out music really quickly that is borrowing deeply from things that have been created before. But Nora, hold on, hold on. I'm not done. I'm not done here. Okay. This is where I think the self-awareness of it is so important. And the other thing that we just can't leave unsaid to that end is the music video for this song. Okay. Because it's, it's, it's one of their absolute best. It is so funny. It has all of the guys dressed up in these like amazing prosthetic costumes as

Hollywood studio execs and their lackeys, trying to get the boys to do this really cheesy shoot with all of the trappings of typical sort of manufactured boy bandness. Even like Harry dresses up as this hysterical. stylist who's brought in and he has all of these like sample sample cards of how they might how he might dress them and one of them they're all bunched together in matching white

outfits. So let's take a look at some of the styling options for the film. Now personally I think this one is the one. Absolutely not. We'd never wear that. And it looks just like the millennium back Street Boys album cover. There are so many little details in that music video that are so spot on. And it makes me believe that they got it. And I think that's really important because if you are going to crib this much, right?

Like you kind of have to understand your place in the whole ecosystem. And I don't know if they totally did, but I do believe that on this song, they got it just because it feels like it's in on the joke. All right. I will stop stalling. That's fine. You're going to make a huge presentation for story of my life. The floor is yours. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So, why don't I just make the argument that this is both the biggest and best song? Go.

On this record. Is this your favorite One Direction song? It is not my favorite One Direction song, but it is among my very most favoriteest, most cherished, most, I love it so much, one direction songs. Okay. So here's a quote from Julian Benetta, one of their songwriting and production buddies, to Rolling Stone.

He said, this was a make or break moment for them. They needed to grow up or they were going to go away. And they wanted to grow up. To get to the level they got to, you need more than just your fan base. That song extended far beyond their fan base and made people really pay attention. And I think that's true.

I think the fact that they all wrote on it, the fact that it is stripped back relative to the sound that people were used to from them. And the fact that it had real sort of poignancy that I think grabbed people who probably didn't expect to be grabbed by a One Direction song is really, really important. And the interesting thing is the search for credibility, right, is this thing that so many artists have to go through. A lot of boy bands, I think, kind of get to bypass that because, sure, they're going to be criticized for being manufactured and not being authentic. But that's usually just sort of part of the package and it doesn't really matter. It's kind of an empty threat because it's like, well, yeah, are you criticizing this chocolate chip cookie for not having enough nutritional value? but I do think you see them start to want a little bit of that.

For instance, they did SNL, Paul Rudd hosted during this album cycle, and the two songs they chose were Story of My Life and Through the Dark. And they're kind of, you know, they're two of the most Mumford-esque songs on the record. and they're standing up there. They're all wearing pretty simple black outfits. There's even like Edison bulbs and the set design that they're using. It's just like every signifier of sort of like hipster authenticity that you can think of. Yeah.

So this song as something that seemed really important to them came in part from them and helped them expand who they were singing to, I think is really, really critical. So look, they all got a writing credit here. This is actually the only song that Zane gets a credit on. I think you're probably right about the resonance and sort of enduring component of this song. It's also, by the way, it has, it crushes every other song on this album

in terms of Spotify streams. Yeah, I just think Diana's better. I just think Diana's more fun. I think it's better. it's got a little everybody wants to rule the world in it. But I just love Diana. Story of my life is like, I think the cool kids like Diana.

Story of my life was forever. That's the story of my life is the song where everybody's like, oh. Did you just call me a loser? No, I did not. But I do say, You just call yourself a cool kid? Maybe I did, Nora. I think that's what happened.

I don't know. I haven't really thought about it. I think I'm removed from all this because I'm too old for this shit. But the reality is like, I think story of my life was that song that the world embraces when you've been with the band. And albeit a huge band with not really a niche following, but there were people who distanced themselves from this band because it was the second coming of what they thought was in sync or Backstreet Boys or or something that didn't have as much substance. And I think you're right that this song became that crossover, sort of all-expanding, you know, breakdown the walls hit. But what inevitably happens with the fan base,

when a band gets embraced like that is they're like, oh, fuck, you know, now the normies have this band, like, you know, and it becomes uncool. But I think One Directions fans were so crazy passionate that maybe they distance themselves a little bit from this song being their favorite. Anyway, Diana kicks ass, and it's my favorite song in this album. It is close, though. It is close. I'm still surprised that you didn't go with midnight memories

because there is that folklore about that song that happened really because they released the clip of them writing this, right? And they had the fun guitar intro in the chorus, and they were looking, sorry, in the verse, and then they were looking for placeholders lyrically in the chorus, and that's where they used I love KFC. I don't care who sees. I can't see.

I love KFC. Yeah, exactly. I love KFC. Yeah, exactly. For now. That's a big phrase. Yes, I absolutely adore. I believe Julian Bonetta posted that clip at some point.

It's just really. fantastic. It was they had an early writing session in London, I think before they did the rest of this album back on the road. Yeah. But they wrote a bunch of songs. This was one of them. It just sounds fun, doesn't it? They're just having fun. The funniest thing about because, right, so they have, they have the chord structures and they're playing around and they're trying to find some words and to the cadence of midnight memories. they start singing, I love KFC. Chicken, chicken, chicken.

It's creepy and chicken, chicken, chicken. It's really, really funny. It's just a totally joyful moment. But you hear them yelling stuff in the back, like somebody yells. It's like Zeppelin, which is just the funniest, like, sure, guys. Because it's actually deaf leopards pour some sugar on me in the chorus. Right. And then you can hear, like, Liam is just still ever responsible Liam.

He's like, are we recording? Let's just make sure. Like, ah, are we recording all of this? Just make sure. Oh, safe. Yeah. It's really wonderful. It's just this really wonderful sort of, yes, insight into the process.

But also, if you want to believe that amid all the exhaustion and chaos, that must have been going on, that there still was some real joy in the creation of this stuff, that's a pretty easy way to do it. I love listening to that. Are there other things that resonate for you on this album?

I mean, sort of top to bottom, we'll get to what we would have cut in a bit. But does anything compare? Are there songs that sort of stick with you? So I absolutely second your nomination of Diana. Okay. I think this

album is fairly top to bottom. There's exceptions to that. But I really like a lot of songs on this album.

I don't know that anything else is a super contender for best song other than it's story of my life for me, but I could really

hear the case for Diana. Yeah. I'm with you on that. I, there are just top to bottom

more interesting songs but then also as I listen to this album from top to bottom I get sort of more and more aggravated by the pilfering. I really,

I got to say I really don't. That tends to be true for me across artists. They are particularly consistent with it for sure. But I do think that part of that

is they were making some clear efforts to make these songs pretty easily playable for young fans. No doubt. We've given one Taylor Allison Swift, quite a bit of credit for doing similar things, making things singable for groups of young people. It just, I think it's a fun game. I love to play the, you know, match this song with this song game. In my heart of hearts, it doesn't really irk me that they do it this much. When you listen to you, and I.

Does it not sound exactly like Brian Adams heaven? Like, I can't hear it. And it was the fourth single on the album. And like, then you go and you see that video,

which is cool. And they're all wearing the same sweater and you think they're, they basically invented TikTok transitions. Yeah, how much would that sweater go for on eBay? But then go look at the everything you wanted video from Clubfeet, and it's the same thing. And it's like, God, we took from Brian Adams,

and now we're taken from Club Feet. Oh, okay. I enjoyed the video. They're very handsome. Oh. It actually, so you're right that it is kind of like a pre-Tick-Tick-Tac transition. I'm ignoring your frustration at this. That's fine. I think it's a you problem. I think you got to work it out, Nathan. Well, but it doesn't stop there. Like, don't forget where you belong. Like, I don't forget where you belong. I love that song. It's an actual life experience written by Nile. Yeah. It sounds a lot like Keen somewhere only we know.

I can't fucking unhear it. They got a song strong that follows that. My hands, your hands tied up like two ships. It starts out exactly like Kelly Clarkson stronger from the year before. once again. Kelly Clark's in! She will not stay away from this band. Where's the collab?

I mean, that's the reunion I want. Yeah, I mean, they should sing with her on the tune from the first album that they played. It would be fun. Yeah, I mean, so there's just a lot of that on this record. I mean, don't get me started on Does He Know? Talk to me about Does He Know? It's Jesse.

Jesse's girl. But lately something's changed that ain't hard to define. Jesse's got himself a girl and I want to make a mind. It's Jesse's girl. I mean, come on. In Compson.

Top to bottom. It's Jesse's girl. Like, how did this happen? I can't believe. What is Rick Springfield doing? I have a thought. Does he have lawyers? He needs lawyers.

Well, this is kind of, when did people really start suing for that stuff? Yeah, not yet, but you'd think... Not quite yet. You'd think now... I think they skated. They kind of skated. Look, you couldn't do this today. All these catalogs now. Bruce Springsteen just sold his catalog for half a billion dollars.

Dylan sold his catalog, the chili peppers, hundreds of millions of dollars. This catalog at some point is going to be an asset that trades for a lot of money. because people sort of look at it like it's a bond because now that Spotify and Apple music and Amazon and D's and the likes are all set and paying regular royalties, you can sort of forecast out how much money a song is going to pay. And a lot of artists are saying, hey, especially older artists, are like, hey, I'm not going to be around for 80 years. So pay me a little bit less than this thing is going to be worth over the next 80 years. And then I get hundreds of millions of dollars to pass down to my family and to spend now in my last couple years.

Well, that's all well and good. But if somebody's going to sell this catalog, you would think that Rick Springfield or Kelly Clarkson or like the neon trees and why don't we go there? And that's, why don't we go there? Sounds like everybody talks. You would think that they're going to look back and go, now hang on.

Some of that actually is my money. Was there a statute of limitations on this? It's a great question. question. I mean, copyright law. Yes. Can I make one more point about does he know? What? This Mr. Steelier's anthem? Right. This girl's boyfriend seems nice. He knows about you in every way. He's memorized every part of your face. Inside a nap, baby, head to toe. Oh. He knows all sorts of things about her. pays a lot of attention.

He's not asking her to get into the skinny jeans. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. We've evolved a little bit. That's a pretty low bar, though. A lot of this record, though, is kind of a booty call, isn't it? Yes, very much so. And we have no problem with that. I mean, what else would they know? Yeah. They're never at home.

No, and the only time they have free time is midnight to 6 a.m. they're not dancing around the kitchen to the refrigerator light. They haven't seen their refrigerators in months. They don't even know what a refrigerator is. They haven't seen their parents in months. Maybe they're not even eating. I don't know. But you're right.

This is an album that feels like the chaos of the road. I mean, like Little White Lies is a consent anthem. It is not. No. Yeah. What's happening here? There's some, I think, artistic license that we allow.

Okay. I'm not made uncomfortable by anything on here. But I think part of that is just like, come on. They're charming. Is that what's happening? Are they getting away with a ton of bullshit because they're so charming and handsome? Yes, they are, right? And maybe we're fine with that.

But I think it has to be said. Yeah. And by the way, I really like this album. Yeah. I love this band. I think it's important to establish, like, how we analyze the words to a song on an album versus looking at it as just pure text. Yes. Right.

I think if you look at it as just pure text, it's a little bit like, whoa, guys. These are vessels for the expression of teenage emotion, aren't they? And I think in that context, it's much easier. to process. Now, what's interesting about this album and this era, if we can declare it an era, because their era's last six to nine months, basically. But it's that we start to see a little bit of daylight between who the fan base wants them to be and who they actually are, which is they're human beings. They're boys who have grown into young men who have not had normal lives by any stretch. And the smoking video for me that you mentioned is an example of that, right? It sort of

triggers this entire mothering from the fan base, begging them to stop smoking. Concerned about the drug use, yes, but even more than that, like, please stop smoking. Like Liam gets caught and all these guys are, there really is this difference between what we project them to be. Now they're starting to show us who they are, not really through their music, although a little bit on this album, but mostly through the content that comes out around the music. Right. I don't know. How does that, how does that strike you? Is that they should have done something different, or is that a natural stage of the boy band lifecycle? I think, I think as we get into their most important collaborator, you just said it, because we should talk about John Ryan and

Jamie Scott and Julian Benetta, who basically take over for the ultimate trio before of Falk and Jakub and Savin, who make one appearance on this album, by the way. It's like Nathan Chapman on 1989. He had one last hurrah with Taylor. What song did he do? He did this love. Happily.

No, but Nathan Chapman did this love on 1989. While Max and Shelbach did the rest of the album, basically. On this one, those three guys did happily. That was a Swedish takeover. This is, the Swedes are gone. Happily. Yeah, fair enough. So maybe we're, yeah, it's the overthrow.

Harry hangs out with the Swedes for one track on Happily. Right. But I think, I think that their most important collaborator to get to your point is, it's modest, which is the management company that's looking after them. And the fan base has very complicated and in some cases bitter feelings about modest because they channel the frustrations that they had, Zane leaving the band, Larry not being allowed to, you know, live their true lives, Louis and Harry together, and all these things that sort of they just needed an adult to blame, basically. But they've now played over 300 shows in three years, right? They're on a stage one out of every three days. You couple that with travel and recording.

Again, what's left? But like the moment and you and I fragrances are out, they got brush buddies toothbrushes. These magical toothbrushes feature songs by one direction. With Brush Buddies singing toothbrushes, mornings are now the most favorite time of her day. They got Hasbro dolls. They got Office Depot stationary supplies. Come on, fellas. Visit an Office Depot store or visit Office Depot.com slash together.

It's a merchandising machine. It's like Star Wars. They're now intellectual property and they are definitely acting. like it or if you go down the rabbit hole of the fan base, they're being treated like it. And I think probably the truth is somewhere in between because they're creating this enabling IP through the albums that's then got a million brand extensions. And the tour is obviously the biggest, but it's also the most labor intensive for the guys. And even though we're only three years into it, there are these massive chinks in the armor that are starting to show.

Zane and Nile later on will tell us about their anxiety disorders that started to flare, you know, up through this and the stress that was associated with it. But I think that's what's happening here is it's only been less than three years since this thing started, but they're working so hard. They have been completely robbed of their late teenhood. And they only know the dark streets of major cities around the world between midnight and 6 a.m. There's going to start to be some differences between who we perceive them to be on the

poster and who they are. I think that's okay, but that's what I think is happening here. They played 123 concerts in 2013 alone. And if that tension between, okay, yes, for everything that upset people who are huge fans and were following their every move and wanted an outlet to sort of explain why it all had happened and to cast blame. Then on the other side, you know, when this started, they were kids. If we can say pretty clearly at this point that the pace was to some degree a mistake,

now not in terms of the bottom line, right? But that the pacing of their work contributed to a lot of bad things for them personally and also the fact that the band broke up when it did, to what degree is management responsible for that? I mean, even without getting sort of in the weeds of, you know, stuff that's deep down a Reddit page, just sort of philosophically. Like, what does artist management sort of have to see as a role?

Especially, especially at this age. Look, I know Richard Griffiths a little bit. He is a good human being. And he still manages Nile Horan. And so I think that in and of itself says that they're still relations. And they still got a great relationship with Harry and the like. So I think a lot of the fan base threw stones at them because they needed somebody to blame, as you said. I got my haircut today, Nora.

You'd be very proud of me. And I did it in Beverly Hills near. Yeah. Yeah. This is just where the guy. This is where the guy works. You work. Yeah, no big deal.

But as you get that, as you drive there to the. to the salon right on the other side of it basically is the four seasons. And the Four Seasons Hotel is where when Britney Spears was having her absolute meltdown and shaving her head and walking around with huge pink wigs through the bar of the four seasons at four in the afternoon just to get attention, that's where she was. And I worked near there. And so I had a lot of business meetings in that hotel at that time. and I would see Britney Spears in all kinds of those situations. And today, looking at that hotel, it reminded me of watching her and thinking at the time, why is nobody helping her?

And the answer in so many cases is because they looked at her as intellectual property to exploit. I don't think that is how modest interacted with these boys. But I do think that they were intellectual property that was massively exploited. they had basically lost their parents. We heard their parents say that in the documentary. We talked about that in the last episode. And at some point, you're exactly right. Somebody has to be an adult in the room and say,

we've got to give them some space. Now, maybe you could argue at the time, we didn't have enough knowledge about mental health and the like. But who else, to your point, is going to do it. The parents, they don't have parents anymore. Right. there's a I think one of the reasons that I love don't forget where you belong is that I think the harmonies in it are just gorgeous like Harry and Liam have some harmonies in that song that I think

are just stunning agree but Zane has one towards the end where the words that he's singing you don't really process them as a line right because they're just these sort of harmonic accents but what he ends up singing is never, never, never, home. And I wonder if that was intentional in some way. I just would, I would love to know if that thought was there. Because if there is a theme to this album and to the lyrics on these songs, look, the top theme for these guys is always writing songs about women.

Yes. And there's quite a bit beneath that on this where the tone within that is is a little bit rowdy. But there's... Saucy. Saucy. Saucy. They're very cheeky these boys. Horn doggery.

We should have placed bets on who was going to be the first person to say the phrase horn dog through this little podcast we've got going for ourselves here. I honestly thought it was going to have to be me, given that I really do consider myself a big fan of Nile. Okay. But you just took the cake and I'm very proud of you. Thank you. But there is in story of my life and don't forget where you belong, especially a little bit in you and I. And then it peeks through in midnight memories, certainly, you know, straight off a plane to a new. hotel, you get these glimpses of just the fact that they're never at home and that maybe

they're missing that to a pretty substantial degree. They don't know what it means anymore, I don't think. They've never seen a refrigerator. Yeah. It's wild. It's wild. Well, so with all that said, it sounds like maybe you have a different, most important collaborator.

I want to throw another one up there for you. I do think, look, Julian Panetta and John Ryan are their new musical stewards here. And they're the ones who take over and shepherd them as they try to change their sound here. And I think for the most part, they're very effective at it. And you can hear through the I Love KFC snippet that we both love so much that part of that was just having a great rapport with the team. Yeah. But I do think we owe a real shout out here to. Alex Oriott, who's their tour engineer.

Okay. Like we talked about, this band played 123 concerts this year. And they recorded while they were on the road. And that meant... Then they play a bunch of stadiums. Yeah. Right.

So that meant that, first of all, the setting up for stadiums is, of course, very complicated. But beyond that, this guy is like flipping mattresses up against the walls of hotel rooms to create makeshift vocal booths at, you know, one o'clock in the morning when they're finally done getting home from the show, right? Yeah. Like, the fact that they had to just produce this and make this sound like something and capture their voices when, first of all, I'm sure they were pretty tired.

Like, that's a real lift that I feel like should be acknowledged here. Fair enough. I mean, look, they wouldn't even get out of bed to take a picture with Trump's buddy, which is why they get kicked out of the Trump Tower after the MSG show. So he said, could you take a photo with my lawyer's daughter? And we were like, she's going to come down and make a big hullabaloo. And we're like, no, no, we're just on lockdown the show, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he said you're not allowed to use the garage door anymore.

You're going to have to stand on the front steps and take photos and, like, specifically promote the hotel. so we just left. So the fact that they could get them up to actually record vocals, although I'm guessing a lot of this happened at night rather than the morning. But yeah, it was not easy to capture them. And there are bits of video content that we get

where they basically are having to tackle the guys and make them do it. And again, it's why they, this band loves to be naked. They just, they're like, there's one kind of guy who likes to be. naked and there's another kind of guy who really doesn't. These are all guys who like to be naked. I think.

They're always recording in their boxers. They're dropping trow on stage. They're shirtless and half the videos. These guys just love to be naked. I do think one of the first anecdotes Julian Benetta shared about sort of bonding with them was that Nile, as we've talked about, really enjoys mooning people.

They're recording something. He looks down at the bored and he's sort of muttering like, oh, can you actually try it again, but do it a little bit more like this? And he looks up and he just sees Nile's butt. Nile ass. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's a, it's a helpful trait in a boy band member. Comfort with lack of clothing. And it seems like they took full advantage of it based on the lyrics of these songs. That said, which of these songs would you cut? I mean, come on, we're going to mercy kill the bonus tracks for sure, right? They're insulting. Not all of them. God damn it. They're insulting to the craft of songwriting.

Why don't we go there is a good song, but it's everybody talks by the neon trees. Does he know is Jesse's girl? I mean, come on. Alive, we're going to talk about in a second, but they definitely lifted some like sounds and subtle notes from both Alive and Jeremy. And then the chorus is like photographed by Def Leopard. Half a heart, they didn't even play it. With half an arrow in my chest, I miss everything we do. I'm half a heart without you.

Half a heart I can do without. Although the funniest part of, I guess this is a little bit a demerit as well, but the walking round with just one shoe line in half a heart, I think is so funny. Fair enough. It's not really like, I don't know if they're in on the bit for that one, but it's just like, it's really corny. If I had to cut, fair enough, I mean, if I had to cut one song from the main album, I think I'd probably cut.

You have me rethinking through the dark because they played it on SNL, but I just thought that was kind of an outtake of story in my life. But what would you, what would you take out back and shoot? Well, I could really look with my apologies to, Harry. Oh. Right now. I don't, I can't really think of a reason other than not wanting to tick off Ryan Tetter. Yeah, it's Ryan Tetter again.

Why this song is on here. Okay. We got to have a conversation about this, though. All right. Talk to me. Now, I'm going to save it. I'm going to save it for a category that's coming up. But it's interesting to me that you're going to kill that.

I'm going to bring that back around in a minute. Here's the thing. Here's the thing that I feel about right now is I think what happened was somehow there was a file somewhere and someone was trying to tag it as this is a song for one republic

and then they accidentally like hit the wrong key and it went into direction instead of Republic like Ryan Tedder is here. I think Zane even sounds like Ryan Tedder on this song. He does. No, 100% he's doing a Ryan Teter impersonation.

It's great on the chorus, but yeah. If I am going to be, I now manage One Direction. Congratulations to me. Hey, way to go. The cool thing for them to do here would have been to just like give this song to One Republic and be like, hey, look at us. Do you not feel the same way about something great, which Harry wrote with Gary Lightbody and it basically sounds like a snow patrol song?

To a lesser degree, but no, I do feel. the same way about that. All right. So you're putting, you're putting some of these Harry songs in the bear trap. I like it. I don't,

I don't love the Harry songs here. Yeah. Yeah. Happily is okay. I like, I think it's pretty dull for a while. And then you get to the end and they have all the acoustic guitar

and all the haze. And it sounds like they're all around to campfire. And it's very, it's very Mumford. Even though Mumford apparently dish them at the Brits. It's out there.

They were fans, right? Or something? Oh, I don't know. So what I think happened was, so they were both nominated in something called the global success category and also for best British band. These categories they make. Just like, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. The best five guys that we like to hang out with goes to. So One Direction beat Mumford and Sons in the global success category, which I think they announced

first. And so they go take their award. And first of all, apparently, they went backstage and saw Mumford and felt that they were snubbed. Then Mumford won best British band. And Marcus Mumford gets up and says in their acceptance speech, we weren't really expecting that. I mean, we're in a category with Muse.

small pause and one direction. And we're really grateful for that. First and foremost, we're in a group with muse and one direction. And I think people felt like the way that he said and one direction was sort of a dis. I don't really know. But there was a Mumford incident.

Okay. The Mumford incident. There was a Mumford incident, even though there are a few Mumford. incidents on this record. That sounds like a crime series on Netflix. I would watch that. Yeah, I think I'd watch the mumford incident. Vitch the crap out of the Mumford incident. Yeah, why not? All right. So that's what we would cut. I mean, I, all right. I think we're aligned on that one. I guess what I want to tell you, I'm going to shuffle the categories just a sec,

if you're okay with it, Nora. Go for it. Because I really want to get to whether any of these songs are about Taylor Swift. And Gary Lightbody, what do you know? What do you know, Gary Lightbody? No, but right now has the same melody as State of Grace. And Tedder wrote it with them. Like, I really think that that is a Taylor Swift song. Huh.

Yeah. Missing someone longing. Interesting. This is post that relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And guess what song comes right?

after it, Nora. Little black dress. Which, by the way, is their first fade out. Well done, boys. You actually can end a song that sort of continues on a jam. You guys are turning into real rockers. But Little Black Dress. Now, Harry's not credited as a writer.

Right. But I just wonder, those two songs together, State of Grace into Little Black Dress. I don't know. That's as close as I could get. Did you get any closer? Well, I have the same question about something great, which Harry is involved in. Yes.

Just because, like, again, Gary Lightbody. Who wrote the last time with Taylor Swift, right? Right. The early 2010s for Gary Lightbody, he was in some interesting places, is I guess what we should say. And again, it's a song about clearly. like a sort of tortured past romance. Where that's supposed to have like sexual innuendo? Or you just mean he just was in some weird rooms with weird people?

No, I just think he was in some, not weird. He was in some cool rooms with cool people. Okay, okay, fine. Got it. Like, Gary Lightbody's doing a song with Taylor and then he's doing a song with Harry Styles. Yeah. Which I guess, I don't know. I guess Gary Lightbody had plenty to offer Harry Styles.

I mean, he was absolutely... The 2013 version of himself. Dominating medical drama shows. True. I've been watching a lot of Grey's Anatomy recently. I'm sure. Means I've been hearing a lot of Gary Lightbody. Yeah, that means you've heard a lot of Snow Patrol.

So with that said, then what is P. Carey in this area? I actually struggle. with this a little bit. I mean, there's interesting parts on the albums. He's definitely starting some verses in place of Liam, but what did you see? Yeah, so I think that is important to notice that Harry's kind of like, he is,

you can get a frontman vibe more so than in the past because he does start quite a few of these songs. I think Harry learned to be a rock star on this album. the out screech in best song ever Listen to you That her name was

George Rose I can do it too Come on Harry And then the I don't want to I'm not going to do this one But I don't want to stop So give me more

Ah Okay I tried Screech that he goes into On midnight memories Yes I think this is an important moment in the evolution of Harry

into the rocker that he is. Yeah. Okay. Okay, I can buy that. I mean, for me, it was really the man bun. So we're basically saying the same thing. Yeah, his hair has gotten quite a bit longer. How long does it take to get to a man bun? I mean, like two seconds.

No, I mean growing longer. Oh, too grown. God, your hair grows long. I haven't cut it for about a year, I think. He's braiding it, he's man bunning it. Like, yeah, he's, he's, he's moving in this direction. He's also, I will say, we talked about the best song ever music video earlier. He's fantastic in that.

He's just fantastic. He's just very funny. Cute as a button every single one of you. First scene, I'm talking massive dance number. I'm thinking a hundred dancers, fireworks, the lot. Dance is just so hot right now. This guy gets away with murder. It's fantastic.

There's just something about him. He can do no wrong. I mean, even... Don't get me in trouble. Yeah. I mean, even, like, you know Harry was doing drugs while Louis and Zane got caught, right? So as we go to Peak Louis, for me,

look, Peak Louis is these songs, I think, in fairness. There's a lot of him right. on this album as we talked about. But, like, he does the full confession in the weed video. He's not the one on camera, but he's literally narrating a Peruvian police officer quizzically looking in the windows, smelling the... Like, he just...

It's a full confession. He's having a look. He's thinking, I'm sure I can smell an illegal substance in there. And he's at the nail on the head. He did not seem to... understand that you don't put that, you know, Trump at least knew you don't use somebody's phone to overthrow the election. This guy just, his voice, his phone recording, it was, it was Peek Louis. I loved, I loved the innocence of it and the lack of awareness of the consequences.

Louis also kind of can't, he can't hold it in. He has to, he has to tell it like it is. He's, he's a truth teller for better or worse. That's why the Larry thing really bothers him, right? It really bothers him and he will tell you, right? Like, even more recently when it came up in euphoria, because there's a scene that involves, like, a very sexually explicit graphic novel about Larry Stylinson. But what made her famous was her story, the first night.

A 7,000-word fick that was largely credited with starting the Larry Stylinson conspiracy theory. he's on Twitter going, they absolutely did not get approval for me. Like, I hate this. And, you know, my guess is that it bothers Harry less and that this is,

that's part of it. But like, that's just, that's not how Harry deals with anything, right? Like, there's no, you know, here's my real time. Yeah. Right. He enjoyed it,

the appeal that it gave him to a different audience and sort of enjoys the mystery of it, I think. Louis just doesn't like it. I don't know. There's something. there's also something about Harry Styles that's always seemed like he is almost

unnaturally comfortable in his own skin I think and there are very few people on the planet who at least by you know my outsider's estimation share that to that same level and I don't think

you could expect that reasonably from most people Louis included in some ways it doesn't surprise me but yes he does have a real knack for saying exactly what's going on. What's your peak, Louis? Well, I am with you because I have my peak Louis and peak Liam actually going together. Yeah, agree. Me too.

Because they totally spread their wings as songwriters on this album. And look, some of the other guys are trying to do it, right? like Harry's here, but they're the ones who at this point, and by the way, in my estimation, certainly Harry Stiles grows into an incredible song crafter.

But in this moment, Louis and Liam, I think, are the two who you can say are really, really doing it in a way that's turning into some pretty successful songs.

Because they're in Little White Lies, they're in Better Than Words, they're in Little Black Dress, they're in Does He Know, they're in through, the dark. They're in midnight memories. They're in Diana. They're in with the rest of the guy's story of my life. That is the bulk of this album. And cribs aside, almost all of those are songs that I very much enjoy listening to. And look,

hey, maybe there's something to Louis's inability to just not get it out there that contributes to the ability to put some feelings into words that become songs. Yeah. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how is the play on the cribbing stuff? But he has much stronger vocal performances on this album than the last couple. So I'm with you. And I think for both of them, I mean, that Midnight Memories video, the I love KFC, I say video, it's on YouTube, but it's just a clip,

audio clip. It is instructive in how they're writing. though, right? Which is these teams of songwriters are bringing them music and then they're working through melodies and words, which is absolutely songwriting. And by the way, that's how Evermore and folklore were written in a lot of ways. Right? So we've seen Taylor sit at the piano and mumble stuff out and then have a few lines here and there a zillion times. Right. We know that Aaron Destner brought her a lot of that stuff, you know, not fully baked, but pretty well baked instrumentally. and she was able to find melodies and unlock songs.

And those are, there's something very different about that. And so this is, to a lesser extent, the process that's happening here. And so I don't want to over-credit them because I'm not sure that these guys in that moment could all sit down at a piano and bang out a song the way that Taylor could, right?

They needed the help, but they certainly seemed to be contributing in ways that matter here. Including, so Liam, Liam was credited by Julian Benetta for being the guy who, when they were doing something similar to just sitting down and messing around with midnight memories with better than words, Liam was the one who goes, hey, what if the lyrics were all names of songs?

So credit that as you will, but, you know, there's a kernel of an idea in there. And then Savan actually. That's not what it is in that case. It's not. But Sovin also gave a lot of credit to Louis for, this is a quote he gave, shepherding them into adulthood away from the very poppy stuff of the first two albums. He was leading the charge to make sure that they had a more mature sound. And at the time, being in it, it was a little difficult for me, Rami and Carl to grasp. But in hindsight, that was the right thing for the first.

them to do. So I don't quite know where to trace that in the album, but it is interesting that Louis gets a lot of credit for leading that charge. Yeah. There is a lot of irreverence on this album. It's sort of, yeah, I do too. I enjoy it. I mean, also, like, come on, they're teenage millionaires. They're probably going to be a little irreverent. Yeah. It's great. It's exactly what we want. Although if there is one who is not irreverent, it is our guy, Nile. Yes, exactly. So, I mean, I don't have a lot for Nile here other than, you know, he's taking some more vocals, which is great. We talked about his knee last time.

He had reconstructive surgery on his knee in January. Then he has a football match to support autism in a stadium. He raises 300,000 pounds for that. He's just a grinder who doesn't give up. Like, he just keeps going. and this, I think, is going to be the story of his life. But what do you have for Peak Nile? Well, I just have, don't forget where you belong.

Because I want us to talk about that song for a second because I really do, I really do like it quite a bit. I just think it's really sweet. I love the melody. I love the handclaps at the end. We talked about the harmonies, particularly Z. Danes at the end that, you know, the never, never, never home, maybe a little bit on the nose, but I think it's really interesting. And the fact that they were working occasionally in, in more restrained ways is important. I actually think this song probably gets overshined just because story of my life is a little bit similar in tone and is on this album as well. But I just think it's a really lovely song. Yeah.

I agree. If I had to choose another one, though, I would give honorable mention for Nile to when, or maybe this is a hairy moment. But there is a moment in the movie where... Oh, boy. They're talking about Harry and... I think it's Liam.

Maybe Louis. But Harry and someone else are talking about... It's okay. Savannah Guthrie had no idea who they were either. We are so... What did you just say, Liam? I'm Louis. Louis.

Oh, my God. I never meant to doing that to you. Well, they were talking about a time when, just in the early days of forming the band and getting to know each other, they were all supposed to meet at a coffee shop. And Zane didn't come. And Harry's joking, like, I remember we gave real thought to kicking Zane out of the band, which I guess in some ways is sort of like, is that an Easter egg in some way, shape, or form. But the thing that really cracks me up is that Harry's just like lying on they're out on a boat

and Harry's just lying on the boat and he takes this long pause and he just goes Nile would have to be the mysterious one and it's really funny Do you remember and we went to the coffee shop and Zane didn't turn up

and there was actually a serious conversation Do you remember that? There was a serious conversation about kicking Zane out the band. Oh my God. Imagine. Nile, I'd have to be the mysterious one. Well, we're to the hardest one here for me,

which is Pek Zane, because he's the most complicated, isn't he? Yep, for sure. He's the most dark and light at the same time. And we talked a lot about that schism between what the fans want these guys to be and who they actually are. And I think nowhere is that more prominent than Zane. I mean, there are lots of rumors about infidelity with Perry Edwards. He's the sort of face of this, you know, online chatter trying to get them to stop smoking.

But honestly, for me, the you and I that he sings coming out. Which, by the way, like, Zane is the only person of color in this band. And the fact that that came down on him so much more harshly, I don't think you can purely explain by the fact that he was the person more. more visible in the video, right? Like, there's some twisted stuff here. I think just musically for me, him singing that high you and I part coming out of the bridge solo

in that song, you and I, is jaw-dropping. It's beautiful. It's really, really beautiful. And as I focus on, you know, focus on what musically is so great about this, this journey, Zane just constantly surprises me in terms of his growth and it makes me sad to know retroactively

that he wasn't into this stuff maybe he was more than he leads on, right? Maybe at the time he was and he's got a sort of a bitterness about the way it all ended that leads him to say that. But I wonder how much of this is him playing apart

versus just putting his heart into a beautiful part of a song. Well, I even think about, I think he's really good on the bridge in Little White Lies. And you can hear it as a place where he's doing a little bit of, you know, he has some little accents

and he allows the richness in his voice to come through. But it's one place where for me, I hear it and I wonder if that was an example of a time when he wanted to mess with it a little bit more. He wanted to do something else with it and ended up having to sing it fairly straight. I mean, and that is something that he brought up only after the fact when things were pretty negative between him and the rest of the guys. But he's spoken about wanting to bring some more sort of R&B inflections to what they

were doing. and sometimes you can go through and hear him singing something. And another thing that he said was that he would, you know, they'd ask him to take something 15 different times and then use the one that was the most sort of like square. And you can hear places where I don't think it's like, this is definitely where that was. But you can hear places where there would at least be the opportunity.

And it just, it does just make me wonder, particularly as we. start to see pretty much everybody else. I mean, you know, Harry and Nile to a lesser degree at this point.

But the rest of the guys are taking more active roles in the creation of these songs. Nora, nothing happened on March 25th. Things are about to start happening. But is this our last year?

Yeah, I think they're about to start happening. I'm going to be honest, I tried to find like even a sort of like a cheeky cultural event. It was a Tuesday. It was like a. really dull Tuesday. Just an incredibly boring Tuesday.

Tuesday. Tuesday. It was Tuesday. But nothing really happened. No. So who won the album? I give it to Liam and Louis. Yeah.

I gave it to Louis and Nile. For becoming songwriters. You go to Louis and Nile. Yeah, because I think they finally get some real airtime here. We finally get, like, I finally can see the, the kernels of, of like real artists instead of just like cute boys that got put on stage and auto tuned. And Nile gets to start you and I. Yeah.

Which we just talked about that. We should give credit to that song too because that's another one that I like a lot. Well, because you like Brian Adams heaven. I like the instrumental bridge with the electric guitars. I like the key change. Yes, yes. Who wouldn't? What I want to know then...

Brian Adamswood. That's right. I mean, you have a lot to work with here, but what's your swooniest lyric? I really... Oh, no. So this is not swoonie at all. I do love in Midnight memories. Way too many people in the Addison Lee,

which is the name of a car service and that's popular in the UK. There's something that's very real and specific about that, which we don't get all that much from them. And I just like really, really see the visual of just like male limbs all over each other and like flailing in the back of a black car or something. Let me tell you what. There are four male limbs in the Addison Lee and there are 16 to 20 female limbs in that

Addison Lee with any of the one directioners. I don't know what. I mean, you saw it as a clown car. That's not what that's about. Ruinning my pure impression of this quintet. If I can ruin the impression even more, the shittiest lyric on this album is the entirety of a live, which starts maybe as a nod to mental health

with Liam, like, introducing the word therapy. and going to the doctor to say, what can I do? I'm just super horny. And it devolves into this supposed therapist justifying acting on impulsive horniness for all these guys. So they like,

I don't know, it's like the Sopranos or something where there's this relationship with a doctor that seems to be enabling all sorts of naughtiness. And this entire thing sounds like, I have a doctor's note that allows me to hook up

with half this party. He said, hey, it's all right if it makes you feel a lie. I just, I don't know. This one for me was the worst. That's fair. I'm not going to argue you there. I will say, even though I'm not a huge fan of something great, the song, and I think Taylor Allison Swift has potentially inspired many better ones.

As- Paper Doll by John Mayer Bean. the best. As has been established, as is canon. Unacquivocally. Yes. As a fan of Olivia Rodriguez, all I want, I think that is it too much to ask for something great is kind of potent in just how, like, direct it is. So, kudos. Harry and or Gary Lightbody. Harry or Gary. Harry or Gary. Harry or Gary. Nor, it's that time. Or Jack Knife Lee. I don't know why. I'm fixating on Gary Lightbody.

It's just because, like, I don't get... Because it sounds like... Yeah. It sounds like Gary's... It's a Gary Lightbody body body of work. Ha! A Gary Lightbody body of work with Harry. There you go.

It's time to grade this, Nora. All right. We've been through it. Let's do it. I'm worried about my grading scale, Nathan. You're worried about your grading scale. I have a massive Miaculpa. Okay.

All right. I've been terribly, terribly grading these first two albums. And what drew me into that was, first of all, listening to this album, which is, I think, sonically and probably songwriting better than the last two, although nothing for me, very few things are going to top. I should have kissed you, as we've established. But I think as I started to think about the upcoming Grammys, where Taylor Swift's Evermore

and Olivia Rodriguez's Sour are up for album of the year. We reviewed both of them in an earlier season. I realize that if I'm really being honest about what I think the album's grade is on a comparative basis to other artists,

I've been massively inflating the grade. And that really I think the first two albums, if I just am thinking about that, are probably B-minuses. but I also think that I was not giving the guys enough credit for where they were going to go. And I think this album, and obviously as we keep going,

the next couple, start to get substantively more impressive, I think. Even with all of the song pilfering, even with the borrowed sounds, even with, even with, this album is fun. It's really fun. And I just, you know, I, I think that it sustains from front to back a little bit more strongly than the first two, even though there are some songs on the first two that really have a piece of my heart.

So that's a long way of saying the first two albums for me, I would have put it at B minus. I think this one for me lands squarely. If I'm really comparing a cross-artist, I give this one a really solid, solid B. And that said, I will listen to it way more than any other bees. I just, it makes me so frustrated to hear the sort of blatantly borrowed stuff. In the absence of that, you know, I'd improve the grade here. But what are you worried about in your scale, having allowed me to vent and me a culprit there? Well, I love this journey for you. I really, really do.

Thank you. Yeah. So the problem is, I just, I have. Trouble squaring what you're talking about, which is like the comparative scale between artists and different albums. Yeah. And what I feel in my heart, which is just a lot of love for a lot of things. I feel that way too. This is a hard thing. It's hard.

It's like my mom is a teacher and I'm going to call her and be like, that seems hard. Grading seems hard. Yeah. I really like the students. I didn't love the body of work. But like the students are great and I know they're going to be successful. I'm giving this album a B plus. Okay.

And I agree. Because I just, there's something that feels wrong about, I wish we could grade with like numbers. I would give a lot of like 87s. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I mean, don't forget, like, would you give red? You give red a solid A? I believe so, yes.

I think you gave reputation an A minus. Yeah, but it's like in my heart, all of those albums deserve an A, plus plus plus plus with stars and unicorns, but we have to create some type of record. That's exactly why I have retroactively downgraded the first two albums because we have to be honest about the journey and part of the story here.

Yes, especially as we get into some of these solo albums that are fucking awesome. Okay, I'm giving it a B plus and I'm just going to go take my mental breakdown off air. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. You're okay. We're okay. part of this thing is reconciling

the manufactured, commercialized, almost forced, made for TV thing that one direction was with the fact that underneath the surface, there's some real shit

that resonates deeply with, you know, everybody from 10-year-old kids to, I don't know if it resonates with grandparents, but, you know,

to their parents. and it's what's fascinating about this band is there is a realness to the individuals, there is a humanness to the journey in the way that they grow and then flame out massively, but then pick up the embers, some of them as solo artists,

and do something that is even more authentic and matters musically in ways that maybe this doesn't matter in terms of the sort of originality of it, but boy, did they do a great job of pulling at the heartstrings and using this music and then layering on their physical presence at a show, their visual presence on screen, on YouTube,

and all the other content that they create around it to make themselves more human. It's almost the inverse of Taylor Swift, right? The songs for Taylor are how we get to know her. The songs for One Direction, we don't really get to know the boys. We sort of invent something about them. It's everything they do around the song. that we really fall in love with.

Right. Yeah. I think there's something to the pacing of their work where you wonder if some, probably not all, of the people who were around them and had sort of found them and started to work with them,

even initially understood how much potential was there because there's something to the process of doing an album and a tour every single year where it feels like let's get while the getting's good because it's not going to be good for very long.

Yeah. And then it feels like there were second and third and beyond chapters that these guys had in them. Right. That they were really, really determined to see through.

That's right. And I would be really curious you know, there's no way of knowing, but it's like when, when does the light bulb go on and could there have been an opportunity in, you know, some sort of separate universe

for that light bulb to have gone on sooner, where with the confidence of, oh, these people have real substantial things to offer, we don't necessarily need to try to squeeze every dollar and cent out of that. over the course of just a few years, and then, you know, we're going to be totally done with that.

Like, I just wonder how that alternate universe plays out. Well, we'll never know, Nora, so thanks for leaving us on a cliffhanger. But, but we still have two of their albums still to come, and we have just some very stormy, choppy, drama-filled waters that we're sailing into. This, the fun of this album and the energy and that irreverence is a bit of a precursor to a difficult time. And that's what lies ahead. And what lies ahead for us is that we will be back next Thursday talking about four, which you guessed it, is one direction's fourth album. But until then, this has been every single album One Direction. I'm Nora Princeziati.

He is Nathan Hubbard. As always, thank you to the wonderful Kai McMullen for producing, and we'll talk to you all soon.