Every Single Album - New Music Corner: Rosalía, Katy Perry, Charli XCX, and Hillary Duff

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Nora and Nathan talk about the groundbreaking new album 'Lux' from Rosalía (1:00) and why the obvious effort that went into this album is what makes it cool and interesting (20:16). Then they hit a few other new releases from Katy Perry (42:10), Charli XCX (55:23), and Hillary Duff (1:02:13). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Pinciotti. And as always, I am joined by Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, how are you doing this Tuesday afternoon? Great. What are we doing today, Nora? Oh, my God. Always does this.

We are talking about some new music. I think it's going to be really fun. We are going to talk about a new album from Rosalia that has sort of taken the world by storm, it feels. I think we will have the opportunity here. I assume to add to the just like world of praise that is being heaped on Lux, which is really, really exciting and I'm really excited to talk about it. And then we're going to talk about a couple other new songs that have come out since last week. And I'll save that rundown for later because I think it's a kind of funny little grab bag. Well, you know what they are famously, but I'll save it from

everybody else. But first, I think we should talk about Lux because, I mean, we've been talking about the Grammys for the last couple of weeks. And of course, this album came out on Friday and we'll be in the conversation next year. But I think the headline is that this is being like rapturously received. I think it's an easy nod for an album that is this year going to be at a top a lot of critics year-end lists. I think when we get to the Grammy's next year, and I mean, next cycle, not in 2026, I think we're going to be talking about this album. So I'm clearly part of the chorus that's just really excited about this. But I want to know how you feel, when did you listen, how did you listen, what did you think? Give me, give me the basics.

Well, I can't understand a word of it, Nora. You can understand some words of it. I mean, there just has been a lot of online chatter about this. And for good reason. Like, there's something about this album for me that, I mean, I finally listened to it last week when it came out because I... But I want to know, like, because you're hinting about the languages, she sings in 13 languages over the course of 49 minutes of music, which is just, like, unbelievable in and of itself.

And it makes for a very different language. listening experience than what we normally expect from any album, but especially a pop album. And so I want to know, like, did you sort of, did you know what you were getting into? Were you in the car? Did you have a moment of, oh, wait, I need to go sort of like have my full attention on this? She told the journalists who got to listen to it before it came out. And I think it sort of said the same thing to fans that she thinks you should listen to it, like completely in the dark.

So I want you to set the scene for me. I listened to it in the gym, which is kind of like being completely in the dark. It's where I do most of my best listening. But I didn't fully know what I was getting into. I did know that I was getting into an album with 13 different languages, but I had gone to lunch with someone the week before who had heard it and was like, no, no, this thing is an opus and you've got to hear it.

And it's just an incredible piece of art. And it's interesting because on this pod, we spend a lot of time going back and forth across a bunch of different pop albums that sound nothing like this. Right. And there's something about this. I mean, first of all, the 13 languages make it very much a feel album, right?

You just really have to pay attention to how it makes you feel. I mean, I think I speak tiny little bits of maybe four languages that are on this album? That's impressive. Is it? English, Spanish. Do you speak Italian that you're not telling me about? A lot of French,

decent amount of German. Okay. I didn't know. I didn't know Nathan. I didn't know you were bringing German to the table. I didn't know you had that in your bag. This is an opportunity to learn. Yeah.

Well, maybe we'll do the next one in German. But I think this album, like, it really does force you to focus on the way that it makes you feel. because it's just so all over the play. It does feel like you're sitting down for some sort of multi-sensory experience. And that's just what I did. I mean, one or two songs in,

you're like, holy shit, this sounds nothing like Tate McCray, right? Like, we've spent all this time talking about the difference between, you know, the subtle differences between the lane that Tate is in and Charlie XX and Chaparone and Olivia Rodrigo and on and on. you put this album out, you're like, it is so worldly and otherworldly in many ways that it just doesn't even really feel like it's in the same universe as some of the albums that we cover. And that's what was so refreshing and wonderful about it.

And I think that's why a lot of people are responding to it because it's just fucking cool. It's just, it's this orchestral operatic thing that sort of straddles modern, but has so much classic in it. it's in movements. The London Symphony Orchestra is playing all over this thing. She, if anybody listening, isn't as familiar is a very classically trained

vocalist and just has an unbelievable voice. And it's like the elements that are classical feel very classical. And then the elements that are very contemporary I think make it feel very fresh and the way that those mingle is really cool. But I think the thing that's interesting

to me about what you're saying is that I agree. It feels like this completely different experience than from what we often are spending time on. But part of why I think it's good that we're talking about this today besides the fact that we're just interested in it and like it is that she's been pretty insistent that this be considered to be a pop album. Like a big part of what she's... You get to say that? Does she get to say that? Yeah. I mean, like, what if she showed up and was like, no, this is jazz? Would we have to be like, okay, Rosalia, it's jazz?

Well, so, like, it's an interesting question. And now I guess the phrasing matters, right? Because she told the New York Times, for instance, that she, like, has to believe that this is pop. And I think what I took her meaning from Matt to be was she has to believe that something this ambitious and audacious and complicated can still resonate with a lot of people. And now, like, a lot of people is in the eye of the beholder, right? Is an album like this ever going to do Taylor Swift numbers?

No. No. Has it tripled the early returns from her last album? Yes. So the idea that she has some proof of concept with this, that you can widen your tent as an artist with something that sounds like this and is constructed in this way, like really makes me feel good about the listening public. The telltale sign is that Bjork is on this album.

And you know when Bjork shows up, it's going to be weird as fuck. Sure. But it's like, how weird as fuck is it? Because it's not, it's intricate. It's intricate. That's a great way to say it. Because it's so felt, as you're saying, like, you know, I am still working my way through this in a real way when it comes to a lot of the lyrics. Like, La Perla is a great song and has some absolutely phenomenal insults. And they're all in Spanish. So, like, I'm still figuring some of this stuff out. And I think a lot of us are. I think that's exactly an important point, which is most of the albums that we listen to, we can have an instant reaction to because, look, it's pop.

It's not that complicated. It's intended to make you feel. It's how did this taste at this restaurant? This thing, I am still 100% processing. I mean, there's people all over this album who contributed, which is super cool. Everybody from Feral to Ryan Teter to, again, Bjork to our old favorite, Tobias Jesso Jr. is all over there. Like, there's a lot of songwriters who have pitched in here,

but I am still processing this album. I mean, the vocal performance on this alone should shame most people from putting out an album ever again. well and that's where I say that it's not it like I don't know if you want to I'm not saying you're doing this but if somebody wanted to call this weird I suppose that it would you couldn't totally fault them for it. The Bjork song is weird Bergen is there's some weirdness to it in a great way I want to I want to talk about that actually because I like it's it's not a conspiracy theory

but I just have some questions about some of the intent with that song particularly because it was a single but her vocal quality, it just, it sends a chill down your spine. And to some extent, that's a universal experience, right? Like all the ways that it makes you feel, all the ways that it makes you just sort of react, the cinematic quality that goes throughout. There's like a weird- Mio Cristo, Pange Diamante is a crazy song.

Like, she's like, it sounds like the penultimate, movement of an opera. I mean, it's, and then at the end, she's breaks the fourth wall and there's this funny sort of like crashing end. It's, it's an intense piece of music. That final sequence where she hits, I believe, a high B flat. And then it goes to the spoken, that's going to be the energy little bit. And then you have that last orchestral hit. It's going to be the energy. And then Like, yes, that's a sort of crazy avant-garde way to make a song. But it's also, you don't really have to have any relationship to Rosalia or this music to hear that and be sort of moved by, maybe it is the strangeness of it. But it's also just the drama of it.

This is an incredibly dramatic album. And, you know, I don't. I don't say this to be like demeaning of anybody else that we cover or talk about because obviously I love most of the stuff that we talk about we talk about because we love it. But it did feel very refreshing to me to listen to something that wasn't instantly digestible and is reaching for something instead of saying hi or I will at least say just like a little bit more complicated. Yeah, and I don't pretend to have come into this invested in Rosalia in any way as an artist, honestly. Like, I was not paying a whole lot of attention, vaguely aware of some of her work, but not something that I was invested in. And what I think this is a bit of a building on the point that you just made, which is that a lot of the music that we listen to actually requires you getting invested in the world and the story. of the human being. It's kind of one of the fun things about 2020's era pop is you damn well better

be into the lore and you better understand the Easter eggs and you better be, right? You got to know who Olivia is referring to and why Taylor is saying this and we're going to talk about some stuff today that you must you must understand the story to understand the music and this just speaks for itself. And to me, that is what was fun about it. Yeah. Well, and it was easy to, easy to get into, but very complicated and complex and nuanced. And as you said, intricate once you're there. Well, so I have this question about Vergaim, which first of all is one of, is one of my favorites. I love the beat. There's just something that makes you feel like you're driving a fast car

or something about that song. But at the end where you hear the Mike Tyson clip where he says, I'll fuck you till you love me a bunch of times. Fuck you till you love me. And in the actual quote, after that, he drops the F slur. And they've cut that out,

but they're using the clip and they're using it over and over again. And it's in this song that was the lead single and does a little bit of a red herring, I think, because it is titled the name of this famous techno club in Berlin. And I think it made people think that it was going to be a dance track first and foremost. Now it has like an energy to it. So I can sort of in some ways see now it being able to support. that, but it's much weirder than that, and that's not really what's going on. And there's

something about that song, and particularly the ending when they put that clip in, where I felt very conflicted and maybe purposefully confused about, is this supposed to be, like, is there sort of some tension with, she clearly wants to broaden the audience? Like, she, she is talking about how she has to believe that this is pop music and wants to, you know, treat the audiences as intelligent enough and believe that they can get into something like that. But then there is this little moment in this song that makes me think, you are trying to make some of this difficult to listen to. Like, you're trying to make at least some of this have rough edges that make it difficult to throw on a playlist or like listen to while you're running your errands or listen to

music in any of the sort of easy frictionless ways that we do consume a lot of different kinds of entertainment but especially music because it's so portable. Any thoughts? Am I mean just having like a whole doing a whole think piece on a song in my head? That's fine. I I'm still sort of stuck on the fact that, like, you would think about the concept of a single from an album like this. Well, like, was your reaction... Yeah, but was your reaction to it, did you listen to it as a single?

Or, like, had you heard it before you played push play on this? I had heard... I had not. I heard it on social media. Okay. Well, either way, this thing deserves, to be listened to in sequence in order at once. Like, it is a, like, there's four sections to it.

It's all, this is one of those where it just is not just an assembly of songs that they sat around thinking hard about how to sequence. I imagine that there was purpose to all of it. But I think you're right that that is the one part of the album to me that feels a little hard to listen to, I don't think there's another spot on the whole album. Yeah, a lot of it does. Well, and this is a language thing too for me, because I have to work a little harder to understand the transitions between songs. Most of it, it can flow from one to the next. And I have to sort of take a moment before I know what song it is and that the next thing has come.

but it just struck me that that song that had been centered a little bit was the one where it was given a little bit of intentional friction I think for the listener. Did you have favorites? Like do you... It's sort of hard to even

take a part but I want to know what songs stood out to you. Reliquia Same. Yeah, is great. Mio Cristo just like blew my mind. I love thinking about you, like, in the gym, you know, pumping those irons and just listening to that song. It was suboptimal as like a rallying, a bit of music.

I don't know. That's pretty intense. I was, it was very inspiring in its own way this whole album was. I was just kind of like, whoa, this is super different. And so it was an enjoyable experience as opposed to me like, yeah, anyway. It wasn't listening to the last Katie Perry album. Let's put it that way. But yeah, I like, like, I think, I think divinize is great. How do you, how does she pronounce that?

I think divinize. Yeah. I think, unfortunately, it sounds a lot better when Rosalia says things than it does when we say things. It does. So even if you're saying it correctly, it just doesn't quite have the same ring to it. She also, I think it's cool to know. So she doesn't speak all these languages. And she learned the lyrics and she worked with a pronunciation coach.

And it's just very effortful. And it makes it... But it sounds effortless on the album. It sounds effortless, but it seems like a very effortful process. And, you know, you got to, like, I respect it. She puts so much into it and so much came out of it. I loved Memoria, too. Yeah.

The second to last track. Yeah. Was there something that grabbed you? So I do love La Perla Again, I think the insults Which people can look up are fabulous I do I think

You tell me if you heard this I think I understand what I'm hearing I think there's a moment Where there's a little sound effect That sounds like she's pulling a knife out Yes I'm obsessed with that That's so funny to me

Like that's so That's just really juicy and clever And again, like, I think it's very easy for orchestral music to feel very cold to people, or at least for people to have that predisposition. And then you add in the fact that she's speaking all of these languages and a lot of her audience is not going to be able to immediately understand every song. there's those little moments of personality or a quirk. Right. Fourth wall breaking or sprinkling in of modernism

that makes it feel fresh. And human. Yeah. And because actually in a way, it's funny to think of the relationship between like classical orchestral music and electronic music.

But like both of those actually are styles that occasionally can feel sort of cold. and like removed from the person at the center. And to make something pop, like you do, I feel like one of the, you know, it's such an amorphous thing to talk about because like what is pop?

Is it just what people like? Is it more specific style than that? But I do think that one of the kind of you know it when you see it things is that there is this like person at the center. And she's not doing that in the same way, as you said, as, you know, a Taylor or a Sabrina. but I do think that those moments

just bring you back to the fact that there is a human creator whose mind and, you know, body and soul worked to make this and it's just really, it's really, really well done. Yeah. Well, and you said that it is effortful. It is. This is, I mean, you know, Sabrina's record, man's best friend,

was recorded in a very short period of time. Like, there are some albums that are like, it's like a week and I'm done, two weeks of work and three weeks, and then there's mastering and there's all that. But like, this is years of work. It just by definition, it has to be. And so it feels big. It feels like an entire whole work of art

instead of just like a snapshot of a few Polaroids that ended up on the floor. It feels like an entire world has been created. And it feels like it came from a place other than how do we give people what they want to hear, which is not necessarily a bad goal to have. Right. But I do think that it's one that can have diminishing returns because there is a lowest common denominator that comes in with this. Can I ask you something about this, really? Yeah.

How much of people's reaction to this is just because it's such an obvious Zag to everybody else's Zieg? Like how much of the press around it? Yeah. Do you think it's just because it's so different and clearly was a lot of effort and her voice is incredible? I mean, the sort of practical manifestation question

that we ask each other about these kinds of albums is like, what will you come back to on this? What will you go back and spin again? So... You know, like, I found myself coming back on I quit the Heim record, like way more than I thought. There were parts of that that I just... I'm so glad to hear that.

I love that album. I don't know if I ever brought it up. It's a good album. I mean, by the way, it got nominated for rock album of the year. I know. We didn't talk about the rock stuff and that... I was mad at myself about that because we love. It's going head to head with Youngblood and Turnstile.

I mean, holy shit. But, I mean, good for the girls. It's cool. but I there's some stuff on there that like I go back to there's stuff on the Audrey record that we've talked about that like I go back to a lot speaking of the gym there's stuff like there's some albums that we've listened to that I've been like wow that's great like the Lily Allen album I think is terrific and I don't know if I'm going back to it I just don't know going back to it by the way have you yeah you've been going back to Peapalice

Yeah, what did you call it when we did the episode? Like, um, I called it whatever it was going to take for me to not have to say what it's actually called. It's sort of the deer or something. Yeah, no, I've been going back to Pussy Palace, which is what those songs actually called quite a bit. I always thought it was a dojo. But on this, it feels like, uh, like, what would you play this?

You couldn't really play this at a party. Okay. Unless, no, I've thought about this. I've thought about this. Okay. So I love, like, I love to cook and I love to cook by myself. Like, I love to, like, close the doors. This is a definite, I'm making brunch sort of album.

Yeah, start to finish. Totally. Pansearing some salmon or some shit. And just, and playing it, like, not blasting it, but playing it start to finish pretty loudly. That is an experience that I would like to have very soon. I can't have it tonight because I have plans, but if I didn't, that's what I would be doing. But I agree with you that it's not,

like it's not an album that you can playlist. It's not an album. It's not like a road trip album, you know? Like there are some use cases that don't really work for this. But I was asking myself this afternoon if people were over for dinner, could I put it on kind of in the background?

And I actually think the answer is maybe. Yeah, you could. But I do think it's kind of beside the point. Because I just don't... Not without somebody being like, what the fuck is this? Well, and maybe that would be the benefit to it because maybe...

In a good way. Yeah. And then they would go, they would go listen to it more with more focus. But I just, I think what's great about it is that that is not

what she's trying to do. and I do think that there is more reward from things that take a little longer to digest, things that are a little bit more challenging. And like this is, this is, I think what is so interesting about watching all of these artists try to figure it out in a pop space because you have this constant push and pull of what is empty calories and what is the lightning in a bottle that has some substance to it

and can also bring tons and tons of people together. And this is obviously further towards the other end of the spectrum. But I do think that in an age where so much of what we consume is designed so that we will keep scrubs. and keep and just sort of not turn anything off, when someone is able to break through doing something else, it's good to see that richly rewarded,

which seems like it's what's happening with this album. Yeah, well, it certainly is not meant to be played in arenas. This is meant to be played in opera houses. Yeah, so she's talked about it a little bit, at least alluded to, you know, wanting to do something very theatrical with live shows. How could she not? Yeah. It's not a, it's not, there aren't bangers on here. But I mean, what do you think like, Rosalia at Lincoln Center? Yeah, exactly. That's where it should be. And if you have to do seven nights there or 12 night residencies and then go to the Sydney Opera House and then go to

to the Disney Concert Hall in L.A. And, you know, that's what it should, that's what it should be done. It's, you know, totally non-sequitur and not the right comparison point. But, like, Evermore was not meant to be played in a stadium. And neither was folklore. And it's why she trimmed some of those parts down.

You think Rosalie is going to get out there with, like, a bunch of orbs and... Right. It's like, and Taylor tried her best. She tried her best. But, like, you know, they had to put in some heavier guitars and shit just to carry it.

Like, this is not that kind of music, and it's not a stand for. It's like an experience, and it is a feel thing. So it'll be interesting to see how she tours it. I just, yeah, it's, it is so refreshing in a moment to have this thing drop. It's such a weird moment to drop this album, I think. I don't totally get why they put it out at such an early stage of the Grammy cycle. like it's not like there's additional singles that are going to come out.

This is just going to be a thing that people hear and appreciate and then there's going to be a Grammy campaign in basically a year. 10 months, a year, you know, that tries to get this thing, the recognition that it deserves and where do you actually put it

and will it still be in people's minds? And I think, you know, some of it is, I don't fucking care. I'm putting out this art. It matters to me, and I hope it matters to you. And that's great. We don't do this shit for the Grammys.

And it, you know what it does is that it communicates confidence, right? And now if it hadn't gone this way, if it hadn't been this good, if people hadn't found a way to connect to this music, then maybe I'm singing a different tune here, maybe we all are. but it just comes across as someone who had a point of view who knew they'd worked really hard and created something exceptional and just kind of said, screw it. Like, it's going to be a Grammy contender because it's good enough to be a Grammy contender and whether that happens in November or April or July,

it's not going to make a difference. And like, honestly, you know, there's a lot of time left. There is almost a literal calendar year left for other people to put stuff out. But I think that she has set an unbelievably high bar for what's going to be album of the year in 2027. Yeah, it's exquisite. I mean, it is. And how we define it, it's refreshing because it just doesn't feel like, it just doesn't feel like anything. One of the things we do all the time in this podcast is I, is we live.

like, are like, oh, that sounds like this song. This song sounds like that song. I had nothing for you on this album. There's just, I'm not schooled enough in, in like 14th century opera to bring you something that, 16th century opera to bring you something as a point of comparison. It's just, it is so unique. And it will just be about, again, like,

who gives a shit about the Grammys when it relates to this? I'm more interested in, and we've had a couple of albums that we've talked about here over the last month that are different, that are grabbing attention because of their uniqueness. West End Girl, because it's like watching a car crash, this album because of just the enormity of the effort and the process and the beauty, it is just like achingly gorgeous. It is, it's just a stunning album. It's cut through the noise. But the reason I asked that question of, will you come back to it,

is, hey, you know, Ophelia and Opelite are number one and three still on the Billboard 200. Like, is they're going to, this album's going to debut in the top 10, it did, will, but it's not, you know, you're not going to have smashes off of it. And so to what extent will this amazing piece of art be embraced and percolate through culture, right? The last one that I can think of that made people go, well, that's different. I haven't heard something quite like that. but it got embraced wholly was Brat. Sure. But Brad had fucking bangers on it.

Yeah. It's easier to see, like, I mean, I don't know. Could there be porcelana TikTok dance? Right. It's like, but it's, you never totally know, but it's certainly not built for that in the same way that Apple feels like it was.

But I do think that there is what they share is you know Brat didn't necessarily sound like a lot else that was going on not quite to the same extent that this doesn't but everything else that was going on

in pop this certainly doesn't. And again, I do think that there's a confidence in that. And there is something very attractive about listening to, you know, something that you know, somebody kind of did for the love of the game, right? Because they're not chasing a trend. They're not chasing, oh, everybody does this. So let's see if I can hop on that and then maybe I'll get out of that and everything.

Yeah. And I think there's a little bit of that groundswell energy around this album that reminds me of Brat. It reminds me of West End Girl a little bit, but I think it's different just because that was so tied up with the narrative and the information and the names and the, you know, who did what and when, that it just feels a little bit different. Although I will say that there was a moment in time When I was pretty caught up in How often Jeremy Allen White Was like leaving farmers markets in Los Angeles And getting photographed carrying flowers

Like every day And that was when these two were briefly dating So, you know, just just chew on that Right I remember that that was a thing They were being spotted at gas stations and shit do you think that like what do you think Farrell actually did on this album?

That's a really good question. I don't know. Usually Farrell is someone whose musical signatures are like pretty obvious and for also obvious reasons that's not easily decipherable here. Do you have an idea? No, I mean I think he's on Demadriga.

And I don't know. know exactly whether he just brought the vibes or if he brought, I don't know. It's a, it's a short song. But there he is. I can, I just think it's a, I mean, even like Tettor's presence and some of the other songwriters, it's like, this is something where you don't go, oh, that sounds like a Ryan Tedder song. So, yeah, I think it probably, I, where I'm going with that is, man, I would love to see a little doc on even it was like a 30 minute yeah like how did they do this and how are these songs really composed and i mean i read since like she she took she'd start with stuff and google translate and and that would be the sort of foundation for some of these songs and she again like

each song is about a saint and like i'm this one it feels like warrants a little bit of a deeper dive because it is so uh intricate does the how do you relate to the religiosity of it. Because it is, it's about sainthood and God and divinity and wanting to you know, sort of the opening

arias like I wish I could go to heaven and then come back down to earth and then by the end she's sort of completed this journey where that's, that's happened. Who could come from this I mean I find a lot of my spirituality through music.

It's what I love about it. It's because it sort of reminds me that I'm human in so many ways. Like the things that music makes me feel just inside are where I feel. I feel like I'm connecting to some sort of divine being to be candid. And so I did not actually spend a lot of time, as I often do, like diving deep into the lyrical component of this record and what she was trying to say in words. I just really felt, and that even as we're recording now,

is basically most of my experience with this album. Sure. So I say that because it was a very spiritual experience, which is why I was so weird to be at the fucking gym listening this thing. I was like, holy, wow, the world is big. And look at what human beings can create. And how cool that they started to be like the double rainbow guy. Like how cool that, as she pointed out,

that this is something that sort of is language transcendent. And that's part of the point. but that it can feel very spiritual just from a sound and the influence that those sounds have in your body is what's cool about this. I love the idea that you're looking around being like,

do the rest of these people know about this album? Are the rest of you listening to Rosalia? Yeah, I was like, hey, Meathead on the bench. You got to check out this fucking Rosalia album, bro. Hey, can you give me a spot and check out Porcelana? I did. So that all, like, that all resonates with me. I think, like, I'm not a particularly religious person, at least in the traditional sense of, of that word. So I don't know that I necessarily,

like, I don't specifically connect to that part of it, but I also don't think that it caused me any, like, disconnect from it. I think it just comes through as this, it's very grand. It's, it's, it's, ethereal and and but I do wonder how someone who is better versed in the actual biblical references and all of that would um would respond to this I did I was going through some of the reddit pop threads about this album and somebody posted this is like that photo of the Pope wearing a parka And that made me laugh. What a great way to describe this album.

It kind of like is because it's, it's when you see something so, the merging of something very contemporary with something very, uh, oriented in history or grounded in history, that, that will be forever my visual of this album is the photo of the Pope wearing a parka. Well, should we leave it there? Let's leave it there. I think we're going to have more opportunities to talk about this just because, you know, again, I think it is going to be all over the year-end lists. I think the Grammys next year will probably give us another opportunity. But just, if anybody hasn't been listening to Lux, I highly recommend you go check that out. Let's get to our little grab bag of songs here. Do you have a preference on where we start? No, I dropped a few hints through the course of that discussion about

where we might be going, but I'll let you make some choices. Okay, let's talk about Katie Perry first. So Katie Perry put out a single called Band-Aids. And it is kind of a, it is a breakup song. It is a, this is what went wrong song. And, you know, one of the key lyrics is it's not what you did. It's what you didn't. It sort of paints a picture of a detached and,

disengaged partner who fumbles a relationship. So obviously, as we were just talking about how a lot of contemporary pop music sort of has this story and celebrity in person at the core, that is very much true here. What did you think of this song? I kind of like it. I kind of like it too. And I wonder if it's just because I have, I know that. and you and I talked about this,

the moment that she was like dangling from, from that contraption on stage at that show, I started, I started feeling bad for Katie Perry. I shouldn't even say that because I think that's a little condescending. I started kind of rooting for things to be okay for her. Yeah. Yeah. Look, this song is super close to being great.

Okay. I think. Like, it's very reminiscent of Roar for me. Sure. You know, she's doing the, like, A-flat to D-flat chord thing. It's basically the whole song. I like the visuals. She's back to the sort of self-deprecating,

like blowing herself up and, you know, getting into all sorts of explosions and logs falling off truck. and all the sorts of, like, funny Katie Perry shit. So all of that, I think, is there. My problem is that the big culminating line is bleeding out, bleeding out, bleeding out slow, Band-Aids over a broken heart. The dissonance, like, why couldn't we rhyme heart?

Why couldn't we rhyme slow? Why did we have to... Oh, do you not think that that's supposed to kind of make you think that she's saying broken home and is like just shying away from it, but also letting your mind go there, which is a little bit... Whoa, is that generous. Wow, is that generous. No, I'm not even trying to... That is totally what I thought was going on in that moment.

I mean, you win. Trophy for Nora. she wins the day because I have been spending hours of my time staring at the ceiling being like she could have said bleeding out, bleeding out, bleeding out slow, band-aids over a broken, yes, it could have been home. It could have been, Band-Aids don't fix a heart with a hole. Band-a-hast-Bendys don't fix blood holes. You say sorry, just for a show. Bleeding out, bleeding out from the start, Band-Aids over a broken heart. Like, you know, whatever.

Who just ripped that stinky fart? Band-Aids over Broken Heart. Anything to give me some resolution here because the whole song is really just, again, just kind of two chords. It's got a lot of Katie Perry stuff to it. It was almost there, and there's just something about that moment

that feels less singable to me. Let me put it that way. And it's not because I want all my shit rhymed. I'm a Pearl Jam fan. Eddie Vedder just walks up and says whatever the fuck he wants to say. Like he does not, you do not need to rhyme in your songs. But I certainly feel like there was some efforts at rhyming

through the rest of the song. And maybe you're right. Maybe I just completely missed it. And that your mind is supposed to go to home. But in that case, like, do we rhyme slow with home? It's not exact. I will certainly give you that. But I do think that it's close enough that when I heard that,

my just where my mind went was this is a little bit of a sticking it to Orlando Bloom. Well, yeah. But sure, and it's not subtle like overall. At all. But I think there's something about broken home that invokes like, you know, a family in pain and sort of not just Katie Perry that feels darker. And so I took it as like she's just pulling back from that, but she's letting you think about it. This made me sad.

I had in my head just this idea that Katie, especially after we've talked about a lot, that Russell Brand breaking up scene in the documentary that maybe she was, that it was all good. And now here she is running around with the Canadian, former Canadian premiere. And she's, you know, she's doing, I don't, this doesn't feel like a distract. But I mean, tried all the medications, lowered my expectations, made every justification. It's sad. Is hard. Yeah.

No, it, it, I'm trying not to like feel bad for her because I don't think anybody really wants that. But it did make me feel old. I think you do. No. I think that's the genius of this song. Because she's been dunked on so many fucking times. that the vulnerability here and the, like, you know, constantly being- is actually, I think, purpose-built to put us on the side of feeling sorry for her

and a little protective for her of her and, like, root for her again. It just, it does, it does feel like it got to be too much. I don't think Katie Perry in general is someone who has, like, a great track record of decision-making lately, but like that's not the same thing as not being able to wish for her arrow to go a little bit on the upswing. All of this stuff is, I think, helpful. Because first of all, again, this song, you know, does it sound like, it sounds like a Katie Perry song. It really does. It's like, okay, we're back.

We're back. Like, it's not a transcendent thing. It's not something that's super new. But like, well, okay, just musically, there's some big stuff. She's singing. she's got some moments in it vocally. But if I just had the rhyme in that moment. Oh, God.

You think Justin Trudeau likes it? But I think he's, he's Gaga at this point. And I, it's pardon the pun, but I think he's just googly-od for Katie Perry at this point. He's so glad to not be getting yelled at by whole country. But I just, this is good. This is like a good redirection for, Katie Perry. It's like after all that shit, I feel like this made me, the visuals and all,

made me kind of root for her. And that's the side that I wanted to be on it. I will say, when we went through the Katie stuff, we were pretty clear on the last record. Like, we love Katie Perry. In my family, we had Katie Perry Tuesday. Like, I would get in a car with my kids and we'd sing some Katie Perry because it's fucking awesome. So this is not a question of, is Katie Perry like an all-timer? She's got all-time. She's got all. time hits and songs. But it has been this tryhard quest for relevance, trying to stay cool like we talk about.

She just keeps running into windows and thinking their doors. And she can't find her way into the room. She doesn't have to. She doesn't put herself, and maybe this is giving her, it is too generous. But she doesn't choose, she doesn't seem to choose great people to surround herself with.

Yeah. And I think you can say that possibly in relationships, at least to a certain extent. I think you can say that in friendships. I think you can say that in women's world produced by Dr. Luke. Like, she's not, you know, she is not completely innocent in all of this, but I do think that it got to a point of a piling on that has made me, despite her errors root for her a little bit. and this song was enough for me to do that.

Although, I will be honest, I thought that went through my head a couple times in the last couple of days. I think Lifetimes was pretty good. And I think I might like Lifetimes better than this song. And I think it was pretty good. I think it was great. It was pretty good.

You like Lifetimes better than Band-Days? I kind of like Bend hits better. That's fine. I think I have more, like, I'm just more open to a Katie Perry song right now than I was when Lifetimes came out. But like, Lifetimes kind of goes. Well, there was a moment there where I thought maybe she was getting into Mariah Carey Territory, Mariah Carey Territory. Try saying that fast. That should be on the Rosalia album in Ukraine.

Mariah Carey Territory. Mariah Carey Territory. All right, don't try, because you seem to be better at it than I am. But the fact is, like, Mariah seems to be just in this bubble, right, where she just can't really exist in reality. She's rich. she's like, I don't know, she just like hovers out there and then they bring her out once a year at Christmas time to tell us when it's okay

to start singing her Christmas song. Yeah, so that's kind of where she, and it started to be like, oh God, is Katie in that bubble now where like culture can't pierce in? And she's just going to be this try hard that's just going to be so cringy. And I don't know,

she just went back to the things that work for her. Few chords in a song, some soaring choruses and self-deprecating in some cases self-maming visuals. Fantastic. Let's stick with that, Katie. Have you seen a photo of her boat?

What? The boat that she was making out with Trudeau? Yeah. Yeah. It's like a vintage boat. It's a really old boat. And it's really funny to me that she owns it. Because when you see a headline that says like,

you know, Katie Perry on her yacht with Trudeau spotted by whale watchers making out, you picture the boats that she's on in Portofino and in the Mediterranean in the summer and this is not that

it's a pretty big boat but it's a really funky looking boat and it seems really old and it must be really hard to maintain and I just have a lot of questions about this boat well I can tell you what you need to know about it it's 78 feet

it was built in 1965 by a Dutch shipbuilder. Well, they know a thing or two. They do. They do. And so it's designed, it's designed for making out with world leaders. No, but it's, I think it's pretty cool that Katie Perry has, has anything at this point, because she's gone through two divorces, and she's been the, by a mile, the primary breadwinner.

so I'm sure she's had to deal with a whole lot of freaking alimony and payments to these deadbeats that she keeps marrying. Well, I mean, that boat's got to be a money pit. Old boat? Of course it's a money pit. Old boat. Old boat. Not good for the wallet. Anyway, that's what Katie Perry's up to. We wish her the best.

It's like buying horses. Don't do it. Here's another one. So we have new Charlie XX music, sort of. I think that's exactly the right way to say it. I mean, there's a lot of chatter on the streets that there's a brat too that's coming next year. This ain't it.

No. I don't know anything about that. I would be excited about it if it were to take place. This songhouse is the... It sucks. You think it sucks? It sucks. I think I'm going to die in this house.

Yeah, I think I'm going to die if I keep listening to house. I tried. I'm sorry. This makes me feel like Wuthering Heights, which is the most like dreary fucking thing. It's the thing that I had to just like hold my eyes open to read in high school just to get through it.

Oh, no. No. No. Nathan. You got to love Wuthering Heights. I'm sorry. But you don't have to love this. The Emerald Fennel Wuthering Heights is going to be.

unhinged. And what impression does this give you other than Wuthering Heights as done through the eyes of Emerald Fennell and soundtracked with original music by Charlie XX, X, X, X, X, who's first entry is like, like, I don't even know, I don't necessarily think it's good or bad. It's just sort of like, she thinks of this as slasher Gothic. I think of it as Skip. you didn't enjoy it.

I mean, I'm not going to be coming back for multiple listens. I just like, I don't think that, as you said, this isn't like Charlie doing a Charlie XX pop album. This is most illuminating to me as evidence of what this movie is going to be like. Well, that's scary for me. Yeah. Look, this in the same way that Rosalie did something different,

Charlie seems to have done something different here. And the case of Rosalia, it's like, wow, this is different and unique and ornate and intricate and it's super interesting. And in Charlie's case, I was just like, man, I want to listen to the next thing that you make after Brat and all the remixes and be like, whoa, what a direction. And I just, here's how I justified it in my own head. Charlie just needed a little project and she needed to do something super different to cleanse the palette as she thinks about really what she's going to bring post-brat. So she got involved

in this creative project. As you said, maybe the music is more a reflection of the film. Yeah. Than the other way around. And so that means maybe I don't need to see this Margulabi movie. I probably will see it anyway because it's Margot Robbie. But I'm going to just give her a hall pass. This is like, this is like that, yeah, this is her hall pass. This is like. I actually think it it works as soundtrack. Just because I think it's evocative. But if John Kale is speaking in the background the whole time, how can that be a soundtrack to dialogue in Wuthering Heights?

Well, okay, or it's an original song that has a placement in the film, but it feels of a piece with the soundtrack of a movie that is more about tonally matching the director's aims, which I do think is, like, Charlie wants to make movies. Charlie is a huge movie fan, and I have to imagine is doing this, yes, as a way to make music and have a project, but as an entry point into thinking about the structure of a film

and, like, making a movie. So I just feel like... You said that like Harry Stiles says movie. The movie feels like a movie. God, I miss him. Don't worry. It's coming. Okay. We're telling me about a lot of

brat too. It's coming. 2026 is going to be great, Nora. Phoebe's coming. Don't just get ready. It's so good. Anything else? Any other predictions? I need to save those.

Producer Kai will electrocute me if I say anymore because we have to save them for our actual prediction because there's nothing to talk about at the end of December, except the Taylor Swift movie. But yeah, I just, can we just put this back on the shelf for now? And let's figure out if the movie was the problem here or if this is just a fun little hall pass,

you know, everybody has a hall pass in a relationship. Charlie, this can be your hall pass. You can go do this little crazy fucking thing. I will look the other way and you come back and be some Charlie XX the next time around. What is, how are you going to feel if this movie is kind of a train wreck. I'm going to feel like, oh, well, she probably saw it and was like, this is a train wreck.

I'm going to make some train wrecks. Okay. And have it be. I think this movie is like fairly likely to be a train wreck. Well, she did the whole soundtrack. So it's going to be cool. I'm interested in all seriousness. Like, I'm making jokes.

But like, I think, I didn't love this song. It doesn't make me super intrigued. I get that it's part of a whole sort of universe. world. I just may not be super into that world, but I'm going to give it a chance. I just don't think you know, you and I always do next album appetizer. Please,

for the love of God, let this not actually be the next album. I don't think there's any real album appetizer. I don't think that that is the case. Okay. Last but not least. I can't believe you put this on the list. I was so shocked when you put this on the list. There were so many other artists that I thought

you were going to put on our list. Do you know how important Hillary Duff is to me? I do now. Tell us. My first album, Metamorphosis, I just think that there is a very special place in like a certain slice of microgeneration that I belong to where like Hillary Duff is our queen and taught us a lot about the world.

And the Lizzie McGuire movie made me want to go to Rome and I love her and I support her and everything that she does and I think her new song mature is really fun and I've had it stuck in my head all day because she punched Leo DiCaprio in the nuts with the same joke that every single person on Twitter does

that's fine. That's totally fine with me. I mean, she's remarried now. This relationship must have happened when? Seven years ago, eight years ago? Correct. Very briefly? Correct.

I mean, do you think, let me ask you this. Do you think Leo is even remotely phased by this? Like, does it even rise to the level of a toy chihuahua yapping at me from your handbag? No. But I don't think, like, I don't think that the aim is to like take him down because as you said, this is very much public record.

I just thought, I listened to the song. I thought it was good. Like, how do you feel about the song? Do you think it's like, how do you think about it relative to Band-Aids? I think it's better than Band-Aids.

I think it's catchier than Band-Aids. Oh, yeah. It's been way more stuck in my head. What? I don't think it's good. Like, what do I, my honest reaction was okay

would I love to sit here and say oh my God it's like she's outdone herself it's better than come clean it's better than so yesterday like and I don't I don't feel that way the classics or the classics

and I like maybe you believe me maybe you don't let me tell you that I know Hillary Duff making music again in 2025 was very important to a lot of people. Okay. And I think that she cleared the bar. And for me, like, this is sort of where my point of view on

what it's about comes from is like... What is it about? Do you need this to be good, to feel good about Hillary Duff and all those memories and the influence that you had on your life? No, I don't. Are you sure? No, I don't. I know that I don't.

Okay. But I think because it, like, I think because it's, because it's good, it has, the way that I know it's good is that it has scratched the itch for me of, like, listening to a Hillary Def song. And that's wonderful. And I'm very much enjoying it.

But definitively, if she had released an album of her burping, you would have been able to declare it not good? Yes. Yes. I genuinely feel very confident in that. I do not think that this would be in my top five. But I think that it is, again, that's the way I feel is it is, it makes me feel the satisfaction of listening to a Hillary Duff song.

And the fact that that can happen now is really wonderful. Do you think an AI Hillary Duff song could have made you feel the same way? I mean, honestly, they're probably a really well-made one. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Listen,

I think you've been... But only if I didn't know, right? Like, only if I was... Right, right, right. No, that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah. No, you've been... Listen, good job by you.

You've been extraordinarily honest with us about this. And I think the song is fine. But I'm really happy for you now because it sounds like it really matters to you. Have you ever seen the Lizzie McGuire movie? I have... It has been on in the background. while I didn't pay attention.

Okay. Next time, Nathan, tune in because you're really missing out. With that said, anything else? Do you have any nostalgic childhood faves who have recently put anything out into the universe

that you would like to discuss? Not at the moment. None that I feel as passionate about as you do about Hillary Duff. This has been educational for me. I'm very happy for you. I really... It makes sense to me now.

I really swear to you, this is very much. important to a lot of people. Well, I'm glad we talked about it. I'm glad it's here. I have no problem with it in the big picture. Okay. Okay.

That's good. To me, it's just another Dunkin on Leo meme. It's just another, oh, you turned 25? Okay. Well, I think we can all acknowledge that he brought that on himself. I'm just saying, every time somebody celebrates a 25th anniversary, there's always a joke to make up. Leo's going to break up with you. Okay.

Well, yeah. Again, I think he brought that on himself, but that's a discussion for another time. And on that note, this has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Prynciatti. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kai McMullen for producing this episode. And we'll talk to you next week. Bye.