Every Single Album - New Music Corner: Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, Gracie Abrams, and Charli XCX

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Nora and Nathan catch up on some of the new music that was released while they were out. Including: the song Taylor Swift did for 'Toy Story 5' (22:25), the latest single off of Olivia Rodrigo's forthcoming album 'You Look Pretty Sad for a Girl So in Love' (39:33), the first single off of Gracie Abrams' new album (43:37), Charli XCX teasing her "rock" era (51:54), and MUNA's newest album, 'Dancing on the Wall' (1:00:50). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to every single album. I'm Nora Princeati. And as always, but not for a bit. I am joined by my friend Nathan Hubbard, who I last saw, actually literally a month ago. Oh my God. Late into the evening while wearing a wig. It's great to see you again. It's great to be here under these circumstances.

It is great to see you again. I had so much fun at your wedding. Did you have as much fun? You are an incredible wedding guest. I did have a lot of fun. I had an incredible time and you are just a fabulous wedding guest. Thank you for coming. Thank you for staying. It just was, it just was a dream. I had a great time. Do you know something? I felt really awkward at your wedding. I just have to confess because I had a really good time. Your friends are super cool and they were so sweet to me. But I was in this long, drawn out period of cleanse. And I was in this long, drawn out period of cleanse. And, not drinking, and I decided to not drink at your wedding. And I might have some regrets about that because I think I was the only person who made that kind of personal choice at your wedding, which is part of why your wedding was so much fun, because everyone is having such a good time.

Yeah, people were a little lit. People were a little lit. I'm glad to hear you thought that my friends were really sweet. My first question to you was going to be, when they ran to you and accosted you, did they introduce themselves first? Or did they just like launch into whatever they had to say? No, but I had long before given up hope of remembering everybody's name. And I was just okay with the random social interactions because everyone was so sweet and nice.

No, like, yeah, we got a lot of notes on the show. That was helpful. Thank you, friends. But it was just beautiful. And I was so happy to be there with you. I didn't get notes, anything in particular that I need to know. No, I've internalized it all over the past month. I've taken the feedback.

I'm working on it. It's going to manifest itself going forward. But no, it was so much fun. And mostly it was just fun to be there for you. And I was so happy to see you so happy. Did you, I take it you did not get eaten by any lions or tigers or bears. I did not get eaten by any lions or tigers or bears. I had a great honeymoon.

I had a really nice time. We did dance at Taylor Swift together. That was kind of fun. I tried to publish. the entirety of the playlist on the Friday night before the actual wedding. I took notes. I just sat there. I was such a fucking weird, O'Nora. There I am in the corner. I meant to send it to you. I'm going to send it to you right now. You never sent it to me and I knew you weren't going to send it to me because you had 10 million people. All of the people in your life were there paying homage. And there was no way that you were going to remember to send me the

playlist. So I, of course, sat in the fucking corner and took notes the whole night on that playlist. And I actually, like, I published it somewhere. It was a good playlist. Yeah. The only thing is there was just a moment in which the iPad totally firked out. And it went back to, like, suddenly it was playing the 1975 shit again. And there was a couple songs. I know, but I think that was me because I think, like, the iPad died because we'd been there for 600 hours.

Not us, but the people who set it up. And then I think I went to my wedding planner, Jove, and was like, well, you started again here because I want to listen to this song. So I think I made everybody listen to like a big portion of it over again. But I think that's fine. I don't think that anybody was paying, like you made fun of me for putting Audrey Hobart. I like to touch people on the playlist. Yes. But the thing is, I don't think anybody was playing as close attention as the two of us.

I think you and I were the two people most clocked in on the playlist. playlist. Well, first of all, I want to say, thank you for putting Freedom 90 on there. I am absolutely sure that you did that for me. I was very surprised to hear a Counting Crow's song. You're welcome. I was very happy. Yeah, I just didn't know that that of all the things that you would throw in was what you would throw in. You know, hits different. I'm not surprised, but there wasn't a ton of Taylor on that playlist. So the fact that you went to hits different, I mean, big, big thumbs up for sure.

What's the Taylor on the playlist? The Taylor on the playlist. It's different and new romantics. No, there's a couple others. I think Dorothea is on that playlist. Also, this playlist is seven hours long. Well, that's what I was going to say. Well, that's what I was going to say.

Well, that's what I was the rehearsal dinner, which was right before the welcome party. And then also we used it on Sunday when, when we had to, brunch. It also had August. It also, I know it had paper rings. All right. Well, none of that happened while I was there. It had so high school. Yeah. That was all the warm up back before I got quite a bit of Taylor. You can, you and I can both post this playlist. I'm kind of proud of it. So. Okay. Well, you should post it. But I mean, at some point then I like to touch people and then we all got kicked out, which I think actually was the right timing. When people are late night

listening to I like to touch people at a wedding, at a wedding. Then we all got kicked out and then I did 100% Irish goodbye or French exit. I'm not sure what the difference between those two things is. Maybe one is done with more hostility and the other is done with more cowardice. The thing that was really funny to me was when, so as I said, you know, my first dance was not to Taylor. and I hadn't specifically requested a lot of Taylor on Saturday. I figured it would happen, which it did. And then the band at one point basically did a little mini Taylor Swift set.

And you kept asking me like, how did you make this happen? And it made me laugh so much because I was like, Nathan, I am a 31-year-old white woman getting married. The band doesn't have to receive a special report. to play Taylor Swift. It doesn't have to, like, Bobby didn't have to make a call. Nobody had to set the wheels in motion. This is just the type of stuff that happens. Yeah.

And, you know, I appreciated the set. We sort of got pulled together during it. There were a lot of guys who were, like, I mean, kind of white man overbite dancing to love story. And that in and of itself had me just in hysterics. Yeah. It was terrific. Everybody got down.

Women really know how to dance to that song. Men have no idea how to dance to that song. Well, because you can't really dance to it. That's what I was discovering. I made a comment about how, like, Taylor is a little bit, can be challenging on playlists because it's not, you have to, like, give your whole self over to it. You have to be in the story. You have to be sort of like doing a one-act play in your own mind on the dance floor.

Yeah. And I think women mostly understand how to do that and maybe men not so much. But that's okay. I mean, I feel like 1989 reputation and some of Midnights, a little more danceable. I mean, even if they'd played like, I mean, it's not my jam, but like Opalite, you know, we could have replicated some of the awkward video stuff that, of course, had the clouds in the background. That was an Easter egg for the Toy Story song. Okay, let's talk about Taylor, which we're already doing.

So first of all, speaking of Taylor and speaking of weddings, according to TMZ and page six, and also Nathan on this podcast two months ago, Taylor Swift is getting married at Madison Square Garden on July 3rd. Do you want to take a victory lap? Do you want to wait until July 3rd? Do you want to wait until it actually happens? I appreciate it. There are times on this podcast where we have to present information as speculation. There are times on this podcast where we are speculating. And we're never going to, in order to keep up the anonymity and the speculation, we're never going to distinguish between those two things. I love that you're saying we.

Is getting married at MSG, Nora? I mean, I'm in New York last night. There was one of the highest priced events in the secondary market in the history of that venue, which was the New York Knicks, unfortunately losing, I mean, depending on who you are, I guess, losing to the San Antonio Spurs in game three. If you're the NBA, you're thrilled about it.

It extends the series. We had Trump in there getting the shit boot out of them. If we all recall, there was at one point of rumor that she was going to get married this upcoming weekend because it's going to be Saturday, June 13th in Rhode Island. And among the people not happy about a series extension, anyone in the tri-state area getting married on Saturday, June 13th, because the number. of phones tilted up against floral arrangements on those tables. It's going to be so out of pocket. You know, this was a thing that I had heard in Los Angeles, and it sounded so ridiculous. But the thing that

we talked about back then is what triggered it for me. And I think it was hiding in plain sight. And listen, maybe this is all a fake thing, and, you know, they're going to go to some cabin in the woods. but it's not. She's getting married at MSG. And the thing that was hiding in plain sight is it is the world's most famous arena. It books over 365 events a year because sometimes they do multiple things in a day.

And there is this dark period at the end of June and in early July, over the 4th of July, when there's nothing scheduled at Madison Square Garden. And it just made zero sense. That was the telltale sign because it's clearly, been rented out by somebody. This is, you know, a major business. And you don't just go dark at the world's most famous arena for a week in the summer. It doesn't happen ever. So something was up there.

And I think this is what happened. And look, I don't know how you feel about it with there being apparently more, quote unquote, truth to it. We can talk about the guest list in a second. But it does, at the end of the day, when you've got these incredibly famous people and you've got drunk. you have to worry about now, not just helicopters. You've got security, you've got privacy, you've got a lot of high profile famous people who all have to get into one place. If you're going to have a guest list of a thousand plus, which it sounds like they are, although I'll come back to that in a second. This is a logical place to do it. I just I can't, you know, invent a bunch of places where if you're going to have that many people, you can't,

can do it in a safe and secure place that is going to allow you to have your moment in your day without the intrusion. MSG is literally built for that, right? The president of the United States came in there last night and for all the concern about the, you know, the backups it was going to cause and this, that, and the other, the flow of people was actually fine, I think. So if they can handle that, they can handle effectively a state wedding. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, look, I wonder if this means that they do some other more intimate private

thing somewhere else. Like, the fact that she has to make a choice around this type of event based on security concerns makes me a little sad for her. But that's okay. But like I...

The flip side is I would hate for her to not. You know, the fact that there are no windows. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. It's like the fact that you have to choose a wedding venue that has no windows. Because you're Taylor Swift and people won't leave you alone. And she's literally getting married at her place of work. Yes.

That has a Harry-Siles banner hanging from the rafters. I don't know how many times I can say that. I have a sense they're going to cover all that up. But look, the flip side is, this has been described to me as a business dinner. Yeah. Well, with a thousand people, it is. With a thousand people, you do that because there are a thousand people out there who you've made the decision, it is worth it to you to give those people the

satisfaction of saying that you were invited to the wedding. Right. And but that's fine. You're not, I mean, I had 160 people at my wedding and I think I spoke to half of them. And I tried really hard to speak to as many of them as well. I was trying to get you to speak to as many people as possible. You can't. You can't.

But you can't. You got to eat at a wedding. That's what you got to remember. You have to make sure you eat. Because right after our ceremony. Yeah. Like literally right after our ceremony ended, my planner kicked us upstairs. Yeah.

And had pigs in a blanket on a big plate for us, which was really nice. And then you need somebody who is the designated grenade man who's going to jump on the weird uncle who injects himself into the conversation and tries to hold on to the bride or the groom for two. long because you got to go. This is like a, you're going to get 30 to 60 seconds with everybody there. And if you do that at a 160 person wedding, that's almost three hours. So you can't really do that. And so you cannot have Uncle Larry just fucking, you need a grenade man who just jumps in and is like, Larry, come over here. Have this glass of vodka, you fucking weirdo. And just keeps you moving. anyway. I don't know how on earth they're going to have this many people, but I think they have decided, you know, Travis is going to move into media and entertainment and Taylor's or whatever.

So they're a power couple. But I am hearing like there's random football people who got this invite who didn't think that they would ever have had a chance. And then there's some people like close to the inner circle who, you know, got a single invite, you know. And so it feels like, They've spread, like, not even bringing a guest. Like, I don't know if anybody's getting guests. Yeah. Anyway. I've heard through the Great Bite a couple people who are like fairly, not like

inner inner circle, but like more than random football people who didn't get guests. That's what I heard. But they know a lot of people. They know a lot of people. Yes. But at MSG, what is the number? How many could you actually have? I mean, you can't put them in the seats.

It's got to be on the floor. No, it's got to be on the floor. floor. It's got to be on the floor. I mean, here are a couple questions that I have. Okay. First of all, what will take place if Madison Square Garden following the conclusion of the NBA

finals is reduced to rubble by overzealous Knicks fans? Yeah. What's the backup venue? Right. Like, what do we do? Weddings in Chicago. I guess that's a little bit more of a hypothetical. Yeah, I don't know. It's in the United Center in Chicago. Or we're going to Brooklyn.

I'm just saying that that venue is being stress tested over the following however long in a major way. It is a good point. Where is everybody going pee? Well, there are lots of pee spots at MSG. I mean, that's the thing. Yeah, but like it's, okay, is every guest at this wedding in, you know, I don't know what the dress code is, but whatever it is, they're going in the stalls, they're going in the, at the Taylor Swift-Chip Travis Kelsey wedding. You're going in the... You know where they're peeing?

No. They're going wherever Timothy's shot-a-me-pe's when he's sitting on the floor. There are really great restrooms for all the courtside seats. And there's not a thousand people around those rings, but there are also really nice restaurants for all the club seating that is, you know, the couple of rows behind the floor seats. So there's going to be plenty of places for people to go. They're pretty nice.

It's still the garden. Like, yeah. But yeah. But yeah, you're, I mean, look, the set designers. Yes, she's going to be in the, you're going to, like, somebody's going to have to do a lot of decorating. And I'm sure they will. This is the thing that, you know, this couple, if nothing else can afford and should, you know, spend the money to make this what she wants. Or she has to go inside. I don't know. They'll figure it out, I suppose. Here's another question. As far as I'm aware, Madison Square Garden is a Pepsi venue.

Also, as far as I'm aware, Taylor Swift is a Diet Coke girl. If Taylor wants a Diet Coke, do we have to bring it in from outside? Do we have to source the Diet Coke? You're importing the Diet Coke because that's exactly what Trump did last night. Trump was drinking Coke. Yes. Didn't keep him awake. It did not.

I don't think the people at the Taylor wedding are going to have that same challenge. That issue. But yeah, I mean, you're going to have to bring that in. It's going to be rented out. There won't be food and beverage sold. So I think they can actually, it won't be the MSG catering, I assume, who's serving it. But it makes sense. They've got kitchens, right?

So they can totally cook. They've got the security thing down. I think you're exactly right. I mean, the only sad thing is that there's just going to be no, to quote Taylor Swift, daylight. Yeah. No, that really is. I mean, in reality, there are so many wedding venues that are actually just blank canvas industrial spaces where people go, okay, I can make this whatever I want. Right.

It's not that different from that. It is just simply, she will get married with no natural light. And I guess that's a small price to pay for security. She has an entire team of the best people in the world at making her look incredible in non-natural. light. She literally for a living gets lit up by the best lighting people in the world to look as good as she possibly can. So I think they're going to figure it out. But you're right. She'll look amazing. Yeah. It just, it's, it's the type of thing that people bend over backwards to have a single moment on their wedding day where, you know, the glow of the sunset is on their

face and like all of these things that I, I, somewhere in her, she's just a woman. And this is not a real problem, but in terms of the champagne problems of fame, for some it's probably because, like, I just had a somewhat analogous experience, even though not at all. Like, for some reason, that one's hitting me. But, well, just because you know how much people try to, like, have, get you outside. Yeah. And how much you want to be, which, like, we got to be. But that's, that, I don't know.

I wish them all the best. I hope they have a great time. Well, of course. And it's sort of, when you think about this thing as a business dinner, because, yeah, there's a lot of people who they need to invite, it's going to make more sense as it rolls out. But the thing that I'm going to say, I mean, her camp is incredible. They have kept the lockdown on so many of these details, both around this wedding and the Toy Story stuff, the, you know, weird website. site leak, notwithstanding in May. Do you think that was an accident?

It's the right question. I do. I do. I think they were testing something. On the other hand, it massively helped the speculation and conversation around the song. So it would have been a smart, that's where I go.

But the fact that it, the fact that they didn't let it go down, like the countdown clock was starting a countdown clock that then disappears is not. a viral marketing tactic. They could have just changed the background to clouds, and people would have been like, hey, what's going, right?

That was an accident. That was a website test that happened too fast. But it ended up being, like most of these things, it fuels the speculation, people engage, it creates buzz, the fan base in all corners aligned around, ooh, this is going to be fun, let's go find some of these Easter eggs. The discussion of clouds in the New York Times songwriter interview

now is definitely an Easter egg that she was laying, it's so awesome against the backdrop of her sort of, you know, faux, you know, speaking about how there are portions of the fan base that can interpret things in different ways. And, you know, however you want to interpret what she was saying there, she was definitely, the whole thing was concocted to use the clouds metaphor when talking about a song. And then we get the clouds on the, and then here's, you know, Travis and Jason, Kelsey, who are new to this Easter egging shit. And they just can't help themselves on their podcast.

They're trying so hard to do it in like a smooth way. But as soon as they start talking about, Travis is like, that's another toy story reference. You're like, Trave, you're not good at this. Come on. Let her do this. You're not good at this. You're spilling the beans, man. It's so cute.

But he's trying to help. They're so giggling. I know. It's so great. And so, anyway, the whole thing was just this encapsulation of the family business now. The family has expanded. Like, she protects the family. It's expanded.

He's in on all these jokes. the extended cinematic universe of Taylor Swift is in on it. I love it. And guess what, Nora? I love the song. Standing there in those out of the window wearing that same smile. But I knew it, I knew you. Yeah, so it all built to the new original song.

I knew it, I knew you. Which would be on the Toy Story 5 soundtrack released last Friday. I was going to ask what she think of it, but clearly it's hitting for you. I mean, what do you make of the fact that it is really a return to country for her? Is it, that's what I want to talk to you about. Is it that it's country or is it just that it's not pop? I mean, we've got some harmonica.

We've got some banjo. We've got some non-traditional pop chord changes. But by the way, we might even have a little twang back in the chorus, in the light of the window. And there's like me the reintroduction of Twine 2.0 in this song. But it doesn't feel like country to me. It feels like it's more stripped down. It's almost more rockish.

And I just came away like, oh my gosh, can we preview 12 more movies for her so that we get a 13 song album of this stuff? Because it's great. Well, so I wonder if we have to. I agree with you. in the sense that, like, to me, it's country through the filter of Jack Antonoff, who, as is also notable, produced this and wrote this with her.

Did it reek of Jack to you? Um, it didn't reek of Jack. It had a sprinkling of an O to Jack in the kind of like, it's very, there's a pulse to it that anchors me in his production. Yeah. Like, that to me is very Taylor and Jack. But given that she's, you know, I don't think it's the country song that she would make with Died in the World Nashville Veterans, which is something that I would be interested in what that would sound like at this point.

But I think in a broad strokes sense, yes, it's Taylor Swift returning to country, which I think is pretty notable because it makes me wonder, is it a bit of a triage? balloon for that. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, if I have one criticism of the song, I really enjoy the song. Like, I was not excited about it. I was almost dreading like, oh, here we go. Because look, what's the backdrop here? She's going for an egot. And I love it. And she's going to get the O. There's no doubt because it's a good song. And because the Charlie XX stuff, other than dying for you, I'm not sure that the Wuthering Heights stuff is as quality. I mean, Charlie's flooding the zone a bit right now. Also, like, the Oscars will be thrilled.

Yes. To have her there, have her almost certain to make a speech. I mean, you can, like, that is a walk. Right. No, no, it is. And so that's why, like, coming into it, I was like, oh, here we go. It's, it's, it's, is this just going to be a formulaic campaign to get Taylor the Oscar? you play it and it's like it's fucking great it just is it's great the only like tiny criticism i have

is that there are phrases and words that she that are just a part of the taylor swift vernacular at this point that we've heard before right i knew you but when i hear the phrase i knew you it makes me think of cardigan when she says it's been a while like that's from style So there are these little lyrical phrases that feel like, you know, okay, more colors. All your blues. More, right. I knew you. All your blues like a mood ring changing colors.

That are at least sort of concepts and words that we've heard before. That's a function of her having a 300 plus song catalog that is probably unavoidable because she has, you know, not fully exhausted the English language. She's tapped into a lot of it. But there just were some moments of the song where lyrically it was like she was wearing a Halloween costume. I was like, no, wait, I know what's under there. Like, that's style talking. Wait, that's cardigan talking.

But I just, I enjoyed it. The thing that I think makes it a song that I really like and also probably that makes it a song that doesn't rock it up into my A tier tailor is that it's really easy. and it's been a minute since she's put out music that's just felt like, oh, this is Taylor Swift, lyrical and melodic genius, sitting down with a little kernel of inspiration and writing something for the fun of it and writing something because she's in a flow and not necessarily because she's trying to do this kind of like contortionist act of here are the nine layers of the public's perception of me

and the way that I'm trying to respond to the feedback from the last album and change it a little bit for this and respond to it and breadcrumb people from where I've been to where I want to go. This is just joy. And some songs like that have been great songs that I've liked, but so much of the recent work feels laden with the weight of that. and this does not at all.

Like you say, it does feel like joy. Yeah, I loved it. And in hindsight, like, it makes the next album appetizer on Life of a Showgirl, I think, ruin the friendship. Because that was something that was more stripped down, more acoustic, more space in there. It's not the same kind of song at all. And ruin the friendship is, in fact, like, there's massively sad record scratch moment in it. but there is this sort of more rootsy part of Taylor that is not evermore folklore.

You know, as we talk about the Gracie song, you can hear Aaron Destner's rhythmic, percussive repeating of notes in that chorus, which by the way, or in the verse, which I think is terrific. But you can hear. the, you know, the dad rock production there. This just felt a little bit more, yeah, it's easy and it's joyous, but it's good. It's not like it didn't feel plain or other than the lyrical stuff. It didn't feel like recycled.

Like I like the chord progressions that there's some new stuff that she's doing here. And to me, that's why I was going to say it didn't feel so much like country as it just felt like soundtrackish. It feels like a movie song. And that is sometimes its own genre in my book. Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, there's been this joke kicking around social media that the phrase, there's a snake in my boot,

is actually perfectly tailored to usher in debutation. Okay, got it. And so the idea that she could be building not just being a part of this movie in a part of this soundtrack, but that perhaps there could be kind of a tie-in or just a seamless way to release some of those

vault tracks, question mark, question mark, particularly the debut ones because of the country-ish. Yeah, which if they sound like this, bring it right the fuck on. I mean, okay, conspiracy corner. Is there any chance that this is a debut vault track?

I say no because of, unless she completely lied, which she has done to obfuscate before, but she said she went home after getting a sneak peek preview at this movie, which I want to come back to, and wrote the song.

So I don't think it counts. I think that's probably right, but I just wanted to, just wanted to throw it out there. It's a possibility. Nora, let me ask you something. Go ahead. Why is she getting a debut or a preview of this movie?

Is it just because she decided she wanted to get the Oscar and do this? Or is my dream of them playing the potato head still possible? Doesn't the movie come out pretty soon? Yeah. What do we know? Well, they've kept a lot of secrets, Nora. that was my point. Like there's been a lot of stuff

that's been locked down despite the webmaster pushing code too soon, prematurely coding. They've kept some secrets. I don't, I think we would know by now because like,

if we're hearing about people not getting plus ones as you and I have independently, you would think we'd know that there are the potato heads. But I'm not ready to give it up. Like fewer people probably have to know that than, like, as you said, if it's a 1,000 person wedding, whether she's, as has been reported, you know, texting people so that there isn't a, or calling people so that there isn't a paper trail about the events or not, like, that's just a huge number of people, some of whom are not best friends, right? some of whom are going to be just too excited to know information that everybody, like, that is a really hard thing to keep down.

Yeah. Whereas it's possible, particularly because with animation, like, not everybody has to be together that it would be a smaller circle. Yeah. Well. It's interesting. It's interesting. It would be wonderful if they could be the potato heads. Look, even if they're not, the fact that she went saw this movie and that Jesse was the inspiration for this song.

I love it. I love it. Keep challenging her. Like, and, and I, I actually mean it. Like, you know, I think what her super, she told us in that New York Times songwriter interview what her superpower is. She really told us it was the, what did she call it? Not the layering, but where when she gets Aaron Destner's hard drive or Jack's, you know, ideas, she will write a melody and words to it like immediately. And that, like, What that is is collaboration at the core. And she gets inspired by small bits of music at times. And then she just like locks the fuck in and slays it. And everybody who's worked with her in that capacity feels that way. And I almost wonder if then now showing her visuals or movies, things that move her, then inspire a song in this way. Like more of that, please.

Let's, let's, I'm sure she's writing her own film. Who knows if it's going to come out. Speaking of like a debut and reputation, when are we getting the Taylor movie? But I, this, this, she's got a 300 plus on catalog. Yeah, 300 plus on catalog. Like, keep finding ways to challenge her creatively

in slightly new ways so that she can lock in and do that thing that she does best, which is react in real time to something that moves her and just crush it with melody and lyric. I mean, there's not like, there's not a individual line that I want to, yank out of the song and just be like, holy blah, blah, like this is insane. This is, this is walloping me over the head.

This is the most amazing thing ever. But like, even just the beginning, I knew you through the days of the blades of the grass in summer. Like, the flow of that. I knew you through the days of the blades of the grass in summer. The internal rhyme, which we know she loves, like that, it, it, it's not a big, big song, but there are elements of it that really feel like a return to form of some things that she is so good at and that I have missed her doing. And I wasn't dreading it in the way that you were.

I just was like, this is ultimately a kid's movie and it's not going to be for me. And so I felt so pleasantly surprised by just this being something that I'm going to want to listen to. Why isn't, what do you mean, Toy Story 5 is for everyone, Nora? It's in everyone movie. It's an everyone movie. It's an everyone movie. I think sometimes she, I have a particular trigger of, like, her, her, I think she's infantilized. I think she's infantilized her career a little bit.

And that's a, that's a trigger point for me. And I think just, you mean just because like she, like lots of people who get famous young, they get frozen at that age? And also because I think in a way. I think because of the specialness of the multigenerational aspect of her fan base, it has put her in a box of needing to think about writing music for incredibly young people, which I don't think is creatively ideal for someone in her position. Well, but part of what we criticized about Life of a Showgirl was that it seemed to open up a little bit of a generational divide for the first time. Like that seemed to be music for 30-somethings. Well, in part because a lot of those 30-somethings have kids. Right.

But it didn't feel like Showgirl was directed. You think she was trying to write for 16-year-olds on that album? Oh, not 16. No, I mean eight-year-olds. I don't mean 16-year-olds. I mean, like, children, children. I think that she has... I think she sanded off some of the edges a little bit.

Okay. And that's fine. That's fine. But I think that there are multiple ways to do that, and I prefer this one. Yeah. Well, I think that it's just hard when you have this abundance of stuff that you've made

to keep finding inspiration. and not just being prolific for the sake of being prolific. Like, she put out a thing on Instagram about the new Paul McCartney record. I am going to get to it at some point. It's not something I'm sprinting to because I have heard the most amazing stuff that I've ever heard in my life written by Paul McCartney. And, you know, I'm interested in where he is and what he has to say right now. But I'm not expecting to put that on and be like, holy shit.

You know, he just at 80 years old has transformed my mind. my thinking about him as an artist. There's a few artists who've done that. I think about sort of Johnny Cash, you know, when he did the Nine Inch Nail song, when he did hurt, and a few others, but that wasn't even his song and his writing. That was more of a performance, right?

So my point on this is just like, this is very encouraging to me because it feels, it doesn't feel like, it's words we've heard before, but it doesn't feel like stuff we've heard before. And so I appreciate the subtlety. Like we asked for a break from Jack Antonoff, she took it, and then this is the next thing back. And it's like, yeah, this is why

it's not that we don't like the collaboration between you two. We love the collaboration between you two. But Jack made a Bleacher's album and Taylor made the Max Martin thing. And now they get to come back after being in different rooms having separate conversations for a little while and pick back up the sword and see if there's something fresh and new. And that's what this feels like to me. That's a great song. Really happy about it. Great bridge. Good job, Taylor. Good job, Taylor.

How about we go? Not quite rapid fire, but like one by one through a few other slightly less new releases, but stuff that came out while we were away. Okay. You want to start with Olivia, who, by the way, we are going to cover,

you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love, We're going to tape that over the weekend pretty shortly after that album is released. And so that will be with you as soon as we can make it happen. But the turnaround will be quick. The Cure, the second single from that album, came out a couple weeks ago while we were taking a break. What do you think about this song? I really like ever It will never

It will never be the cure. I really like it. It starts out like ever long by the foo fighters. The chorus has a little bit of nobody's son by Sabrina Carpenter. But I really like it. Drop Dead did not resonate as much with me

and I don't think it resonated with people as much, but I think the cure is striking a chord. What do you think? It's interesting. Drop Dead has stuck with me. I'm still listening to that song, I think. Okay. I agree with you that it hasn't felt like it's taken over culturally,

but I'm just a fan of that song. I do think it's interesting that she's kind of done the inverse with these two singles of what it's felt like she's done with the last two albums, where the first thing that you hear, the first single that you get, you know, driver's license was its own thing,

but then Vampire, the last cycle, was a little bit of the driver's license style song where there are tempo changes so there are parts of it that have an intensity and a kind of frantic energy, but it is the, gut-wrenching, at times ballot-adjacent single that she's putting out.

And then the second one, you get slightly poppy or slightly more up-tempo. And it seemed like she flipped that this time around. I think it makes sense to me this way. I think the music video for this song is really cool. And I don't know that... Probably 25% more on a daily basis than drop dead right now. So, no, it's newer, but it's meaningfully outstreaming, drop dead. I mean, it puts you through the gamut of emotions.

This one seemed to matter to her, didn't it, in the way that she introduced it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it gives us more clarity on the timeline of recording the album, how she's dealing with, you know, the beginning, middle end of relationship that she experienced at various points. while she was writing this. And I'm pumped. I think both songs are really good.

So I'm excited about this album and I'm excited that we're going to get to talk about it by the end of this week. Yeah. Gracie Abrams. Hit the Wall, lead single from her album, Daughter From Hell, which is coming out in July. Where are you on this? This is as expected, a collaboration with the Destner's and continuing her collaboration there. Got some Boney Bear singing it. I'm a fan of the song. I really loved the clip when she put it out. And I, you know, I think the thought we get married, but I guess not is just, it's just brilliant. The delivery of the line. That's Gracie.

Like that's her. Vintage, iconic, Gracie. And yeah, and it's, it, it is why she is the ascending icon star that she is because she speaks in a way, she writes in a way that young women speak and they, they just resonate with it. But then I think it's accessible for everybody. It just feels like a, I don't know, like a, like a Rosetta stone of 20. something's vernacular. I love the portion two-thirds through where it shifts and it modulates. It just feels so satisfying.

It feels so exciting. Watch my play. I have one thing with this song, which is sometimes I can't tell what she's saying. Yeah. She's a little, like she used to get all those accusations of being a little mumbly and then she really got past that. And I do feel like we reverted a little bit into the mumble, but I like the song. Yeah, look, the clip itself got me really excited and then I sort of waited for that transcendent chorus. I think I like the verses better than the chorus on this song,

but I think the verses are great. And it makes me excited for the album. Look, there's a lot of buzz about this Gracie record being terrific. And they're definitely excited about it. The tickets blasted out. Oh my gosh. Don't even get me started. Yeah. I'm interested in the name of it just because it's so...

That has an intensity, daughter from hell, that I don't associate with her. Right. Like, I think of Gracie Abras. She seems like a very nice girl. She's absolutely beautiful. It seems like, you know, she's got a nice relationship. she friends with seems to have a beautiful friendship with Audrey Hobert

I don't want to say that she seems She seems mild Yeah It just The idea of Gracie Abrams Being someone who comes from a fiery inferno Feels really Foreign and not legible to me

So I'm curious how she makes sense of that Phoebe Bridgers Oh my God. Phoebe Ridgers. Let's fucking go. Touring. Locking up phones. Plan for a dollar.

Badass. Badass. I love it. Tried to go. Was not chosen. That's okay. Yeah. Obviously the tour is out.

She's got more dates that she's posted. Very clearly there is new music and it's coming. And this is going to be fascinating. I mean, Phoebe Bridgers is giant. And amongst all of these pop stars, it's just been a while since she's been out. And the last time she was out, it was with Boy Genius. And, you know, I think you and I both felt like the Lucy Dacus record was nice, but not one for the ages. And I think, you know, it just spoke to the star power of Phoebe. And I think it has a chance to be the biggest record of the year if she lands

the plane in that way. Well, and the stuff that she's doing with these shows is so cool. Like, it's just so obviously cool in an era of live events being so important, but inaccessible for a lot of people. It just, it shows how much she cares. It also, we talk so much about the ways in which artists are challenged to create live events that are going to be widely legible. on social media and that night after night can present something new in those formats. And that's

inspired a lot of creativity and a lot of high impact moments that are really fun and that mean a lot to us. It's cool to see someone go the other direction, right? And say, the way that we're going to make this a moment is by actually like everybody spends too much time on their phones already. We're going to block that out. We're going to make this about community and presence and being in the room together. And also, yeah, I'm going to play weird places in New Mexico and, like, states that you would not normally see me play in small rooms to just build the buzz. And the only way I'm going to announce it is put up flyers on, you know, signposts. Has it remained true that she's playing in places that have a history of UFO sightings? Or has that been debunked? I haven't quite, I saw that and it made me

lab. Yeah, I mean, starting in Roswell was the issue, but I think it's, I think it's been largely debunked. But look, you said it right. When I was in sixth grade, my first big research, like, school research project where I had to do a presentation and like make a whole thing was on Area 51. Okay. What did you discover? Well, I just, I just wrote about the history of Area 51. And I came in second and I was really pissed because my classmate, my, Miles Schelling, who did his I-search project on going to Stockholm to be present for his grandfather's, his grandfather receiving the Nobel Prize. Oh, you never had a chance. I never had a chance. His grandfather was like really instrumental in the development of game theory and won the Nobel Prize.

and when we were little, like, it was that year, and they went to the ceremony, and that's what he did his project on. And I just did aliens. Crushed your alien project. Sorry to hear that, but... It's fine. It's cool. Whatever. That's exactly the kind of sentiment that's woven through everything that Phoebe Bridgers does.

And she's going to, you know, even the imagery that she posted when she announced the more tour dates, like the PBS logo on the TV and Phoebe Bridgers. or sucks. Like, she's going to be constantly the anti-pop star. And she's going to do these things. And look, I get, she had a sponsor for the MSG show. But, like, fuck off. Where's anybody else playing for a dollar? Let me know, you know.

And now... Great. I'm thrilled she had a sponsor. Make all these companies pay for this instead of the fans. Awesome. Yeah. Get two next time. Yeah.

Her ticket prices are up. They look reasonable. I don't know. They'll probably do some platinum pricing and all that. But, like, they're not out of this world. I think she took the temperature of the room at the moment. And, you know, you can, the seats are like $90 to $120 in the upper bowl. Like, that's a very reasonable thing to get in to Phoebe Ridger's show for.

It's not cheap for everybody. I get it. Like, it's hard-earned money. But as you think about the ways in which you spend, you know, it's costing a lot more for some other big tours this summer to sit in those seats. Totally. Totally. Charlie. Let's talk about Charlie

What's going on with her? Everything's in black and white The true follow-up to Brat Music-Fashion film that Marty Scorsese seems to be involved with somehow On the cover Is out July 24th on the cover She's put out two singles

Rock Music and Spring Summer 26 And a B-side I keep thinking about you every single day and night I think the don't so he's dead She'll have you ever Every single night She's touring and playing a bunch of festivals this summer She was a dual-leap's wedding

She's doing some DJ sets playing chocolate by the 1975 and making George hide under the DJ table. Fabulous. It's not, it doesn't feel like it's building to a, you know, anything analogous to Brat Summer. No. I like both songs. Yeah. It's very, you know, she seems very, as she has for a long time, but both kind of, especially rock music,

get at her tendency to kind of dare her audience to figure out how much of this is serious and how much of this isn't. I think that's a great note. How much she's doing this to kind of take the piss out of the idea of what rock is, what is a rock star, you know, all the lyrics about like nerve damage from head banging. I'm really buying my head But then there also is something to it That's pretty earnest When it comes to Just an idea about creativity

An idea about just sort of the urge To make yourself do something To morph and to try something new Hmm You know Maybe this is a flavor of what you're saying But it strikes me that The success of Brat was that she effectively

positioned that whole album, music, cinematic universe of people associated with it in the 360 video as underground cool kids culture. And it was so successful that she is now actually setting and leading the tone of culture. And people are now looking to her to set that. And that's a very different position to lead from the front instead of the brat campaign, which started from behind. I thought rock music was interesting, and it sort of grew on me. Lord played All Things Go Toronto on Sunday,

and I was there. And first of all, Lord delivered a set that I had no idea she had in her. It's only the second time she played it. She premiered at the Gov Ball. She's doing this festival run. go see it. It was unbelievable. It changed the way I think about her as an artist. Like, I did not believe that she had that set in her, and she was outrageously great. It is worth going to

see. But the, you know, if you remember on the Taylor tour, the applause, Gaga song, is the one that when that came on, you knew she was about to come on, and that was when that electricity would fire. through and here would come Andrea and Scott out of the crowd and like that was really the opening warm up song. Same spot before Lord came out was rock music

and the crowd was into it. And so I, that to me I watch. By the way, Lord also played Girl So Confusing in a cool little break moment where she's just doing it and singing it and but Charlie's part is there. The band

takes a break and they all like smoke a cigarette. and the end Lord comes over and finishes it with them. It's fucking great. You've got to see the show. But that to me, I was like, wow, Charlie is really leading culture. Here is Lord basically coming on to rock music and also playing girls so confusing in her set. Like, Charlie is out front. And I just wonder, I'm building to a question to you because she has been present for a long,

period of time now. She has been cycle on since Brat started. And this is a choice to stay out there. Do you think that her being out front is going to create any kind of backlash? I don't think so. Just because the, maybe it'll build. Maybe even while being out front, there's still a way for this to sort of crescendo. It hasn't felt like these two singles have made huge, huge impact. Right. Both of them are short. Spring Summer 26 is longer and it's under three minutes long.

Rock music is like two minutes long. So neither one of them, like, to me, give you something that feels totally complete to latch on to, even though I do, I like both of them. And so I don't, like, to put it bluntly, I'm not sure I feel like people are paying enough attention for there to be backlash, even though I think that this is good stuff and it's worth paying attention to. The thing that I think is cool and that makes me pay attention and makes me very interested in this is that from that position of leading culture, she's not trying to, hey, she got a good run out of brat, right? And she did the remix album and everything and it was very omnipresent for a long time. but she's not trying to milk it. You know, she's being a little bit provocative saying the dance floor is dead and all of that

stuff. But from a position where she is, you know, as high up as she's ever been, what is she doing? She's saying, throw it all away. I got to change now. I got to try something new. I've got to morph. And try something. Try something different and try something that's exciting and that has different ideas.

and I will always be interested and excited about someone choosing to do that from a position of strength because the less daring thing to do, right, is like, well, let's see if I can give people more of what they've already responded so well to. And I think she's adamantly not interested in doing that. And the song, you know, the first song is in some ways a rejection of what she's. just did before that was so popular. Spring Summer 26 is like a pretty nihilistic song at its core. Neither one of these things, they're both catchy in their moments, but they're not designed to be super, super easy. And that's what I'm into. But if I, like, I just, I don't feel like people are paying a ton of attention. Well, there's one added layer, which is like the expansion of

the cinematic universe. We talked about like Taylor and Travis being a family. business. Charlie and George are a family business now. And I think, and this is me, I promise, purely speculating, but there's enough buzz that we're seeing on, like there's a 1975 album that is going to come at some point between now and the first quarter I imagine, right? Like it seems like it's time for them to come back on. We've seen enough Maddie stuff. George is present. Like, there's a lot of buzz and who knows? I genuinely do not know, but I imagine that that's coming. And they are definitely intertwined. I mean, that was part of Charlie DJing the 1975 stuff, you know, with George there.

So there's going to be an elongated chapter of Charlie George and then here comes Maddie Healy. Well. That is in our future. And I think it sort of starts now. And in terms of the events that just millions and millions and millions of people have consumed via tabloids and photos and cultural discourse, like that album will be anticipated in terms of what it might or might not discuss.

Okay, last thing. You and I both love this Moona album. This Moona album is fucking great. Go listen to the Moona album. If you're not already, it's so good. I mean, I, East Side Girls is awesome. My favorite song.

Interesting. I mean, I think my two favorites on the album are, so what? And Buzz Killer? But I think East Side Girls is the earworm that you're a worm that you just can't let go of. And it is like a, they're like the 1970s. You know, they're like, they're like, you know, Gay 1975. I don't know what it is,

but they're definitely a cousin of that band. But I just think the music is awesome. And I'm into this band, and they've got some anthems that I've seen them perform live before. And I think when you layer in this catalog, this band's live show is going to crush. I've seen them live, not in a couple of years,

but I just think that they're fantastic. I do think that, like, I would, what I would give to hear that bridge of, East Side Girls, which is kind of the like, you know, queer East L.A. We didn't start the fire. Live, I'm sure it'll be fabulous. I'm sure coming up with that must have been just so much fun. I'm glad that you're super into this. I think it's a great record. I really root for them. I think Muna is just so much fun. Katie on antidepressants double thumbs up. She's talked about that. and I think there's some portion of the fan base that's like,

oh, this isn't sad enough. I'm like, there's moments of real set. Like, listen to Buzz Killer, man. That is, like, there's a line on that song where she says, the band's doing fine. I mean, we're doing all right. And the band's doing well. I mean, we're doing all right.

But I'm past my prime and everyone knows it. You know, she basically talks about her own, like, fears of being past her prime. and there's just some rawness. This band just, I love Katie's writing and I love this band and I love this album. This album like is the one, I didn't know, I was a little hesitant to hear it. I mean, Silk Chafon is what Phoebe Bridgers introduced us to. And I think it's a good song and live, but there's stuff that's like, I know a place.

I love Silk Chafon. Yeah. But like, I know a place is a banger. And it works awesome in front of a big crowd. Like, they've got some big stuff. But, yeah, I mean, there are, there are just some great songs on this album that I hope it gets its due. And my sense is they're going to go out and play some festivals and the music will get picked up. But, like, it's worthy of a full treatment from us.

And I hope the audience will listen to this album. I'd love to do that. Maybe we can make a note to do that because it's one of my favorites in a bit. All right. Should we leave it there? Let's do it. I'm so happy to have you back, Nora. I know.

I'm so happy to be back. I'm so happy to get this time to just catch up because that's what we've been doing. And then the next time you hear from us, it's going to be either very much at the end of this weekend or very early next week because we're going to put out a, very rapid or reasonably rapid reaction to the new Olivia Rodrigo album. So big stuff coming up. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Princeati. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kaia McMullen for producing this episode and to you for listening. We'll talk to you soon.