Every Single Album - 'Plastic Hearts' | Every Single Album: Miley Cyrus

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

With 'Plastic Hearts,' Miley seemed to have found a home in a heavy rock sound. Nora and Nathan talk about the EP that she put out slightly before this album, 'She Is Coming' (1:00); whom Miley seemed to be turning to for inspiration on this record (28:09); and why her voice is so well-suited to the rock genre (48:35). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh, and welcome to every single album, Miley Cyrus. I'm Nora Pinciotti, and as always, I am here with Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, how are you doing on this fine Tuesday afternoon? I'm ready to go. We have lots of Miley stuff to pack into this episode. Lots of Miley stuff to pack into this episode because we are here to talk about plastic hearts. And in conjunction with that, we are going to be talking about the EP, she is coming, and all of the music that Miley was putting out.

in the very extended lead-up to the eventual release of this album in November of 2020. However, Nathan, may I hijack the podcast for just like 90 seconds? I swear I'll be brief here. Yes, you can. Okay. So, as I said, it's a Tuesday afternoon. It's Tuesday, May 20th. And I spent the morning scrolling through my feeds being inundated with nothing other than

snippets from the Handmaid's Tale promotion featuring Reputation Taylor's version. And I am so sorry to say this. I'm not trying to bait anybody. Don't be like me. Be different for me. I'm weak. I'm stupid. I will be proven wrong so soon.

But I was seeing those little posts being like it's six days. It's the sixth album and it's six days to the AMAs and there's something else with a six somewhere. And I put my clown face on. My clown face went on. It went on. And I'm going to be honest, it's been on since the moment

that the president of this country, it's not tweeted, it's truth. It's whatever he does. Taylor Swift is not hot anymore. And I just went, this is how we get it. This is how we got this fucking album.

This is how we get Reputation Taylor's version. I believe it. I'm just for the record saying that I'm bought in now. Did you believe it when she first put out, look what you made me do on the Patriots documentary that you were involved with? No. Why?

First of all, because I, like, because I was moderately involved in that, I knew that they went to her. So that's their timeline, not hers. It just happened to be that she said yes. I really do. Like, I really hate to give him this credit, even though obviously he is taking the wrong side of this argument. I really do think that the stupid. Taylor Swift isn't hot anymore. Like, if I were Taylor Swift, that's when I would put out reputation Taylor's version.

I would just take that opportunity to be as petty and vindictive and reasserting myself as possible. And I just, I think it's happening. I think for the first time in years, she is very, very happy to be out of the spotlight and actually living her life for once. and that guy repeatedly reminds the world that he can't get over, he can't get her out of his head,

let's put it that way. Literally obsessed. Yeah, and so she's already won. She's winning at life right now. She's taking a load off, like, resting, and getting to spend time in this relationship and with her family that she didn't have. The last thing that she wants to do right now

is start up with another album campaign. I mean, I don't know. That makes all the sense in the world to me. And maybe I'm just, I'm not even trying to lay out the argument for it. I'm just telling you what I feel in my delusional bones. And maybe it's just that that song amps me up so hard. Yeah.

I'm just sitting there and I'm looking at my stupid little phone and it's like, ooh, look, what you mean? And I'm just like, ah, it's happening. I feel like it's happening. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I do not feel like it's happening. But I am happy for you as we head into the first weekend of summer to be in a very, what I'm sure is going to prove to be a very hot and sweaty clown suit

that you have to take off. When will you, you will wear this until June 6th? I suppose so. Yeah, I guess June 6 is when I take it off. There are some interesting things being released June 6th. but it ain't Taylor-Swiss's reputation Taylor's version. I mean, I guess June 6th, I would need some additional piece of evidence. This is when I start to sound like I'm so through the looking glass.

Oh, only now do you sound that way. You're right for the first time. Yeah, that's definitely right. I mean, we did hear, look, I know that the song has been done, right? So it's not as though I think this marks some moment of, oh, this thing that we didn't previously know existed exists in its entirety. like I'm good there. It just felt, it felt meaningful because there was so much of it I get.

Like they had basically the whole song. I mean, did you listen to any of this? Were you listening for any of the little like nuances and how does it sound different? Because I got more of that out of this promo than I did in the Patriots doc. I think because Tom Brady is talking over her in some of that, whereas this was just more of like the song. Yeah, I just, she's got a plan. Just like God, Taylor Swift has a plan.

You got to go with the plan. And if she had wanted to put this thing out, she would have done it at the end of the ERAs tour. She's got a plan for a little time off that she has earned and that she deserves. But I don't mind you spinning yourself up over this. Okay, I will say that I'm working through this in real time

and I think you've convinced me. I've been sitting on this all day, Nathan. I haven't talked to anybody about this all day and I've just been spinning my wheels and I do think that now you are like talking me back into reality. But I'm still going to watch the AMAs. Well, I think everybody should.

Let's go. If she announces this on the AMAs, I will be turned inside out. I think she's going to take it. some time. This has been the plan. She's going to just, she knows when she should go away, right? She's got her finger on the pulse of that fan base. When she's feeling like she's overexposed, she goes away. Somebody someday will tell me why when she's out on tour, everybody knows exactly where she's eating dinner and there's paparazzi everywhere chasing her after her friends. And

then instantly when she wants to disappear, she's able to do that save for the occasional person who snaps her in restaurants in Philadelphia or whatever. But it's not my place to speculate about the nature of a paparazzi artist relationship other than to say she deserves her time off and she's getting it. And, you know, and as we talk about plastic hearts, you know, the only thing that kept plastic hearts out of the number one slot, don't you, Nora? Taylor Swift? Evermore, baby.

My favorite Christmas album of all time. First of all, great transition. Yes. Thank you for that detour with me. That was cathartic. We are here to talk about plastic hearts and not my deranged theories about Taylor Swift. Evermore doesn't always get its flowers. But within the context of plastic hearts, that is very much true.

I mean, the context within which this Smiley album came out is certainly strange, right? Because when you think of an album like Evermore, maybe to a lesser degree than folklore, but those two projects feel so synonymous with COVID and so perfectly designed to take advantage of that time and win that period and give people this thing that was like a gift during quarantine and felt very of a piece with that era. I had a journey with plastic hearts that reminded me how much in the opposite vein this album. came out in at the same time. Because this was not really supposed to be a pandemic album in the same way that something

like folklore Evermore was, was it? No. I'm not sure that it was supposed to be an album. She was working on other stuff before her life took a fairly dramatic turn, one direction or the other. You can say left or right. Several turns. But it definitely was a hard turn.

And I don't... I don't really associate this album with the pandemic, but I do associate this album very deeply with a resurgence of rock music. And with Miley somehow, after all these years of gyrating between genres, and in a lot of ways, delivering albums that had some singles and some other stuff. Indeed. She delivers an album here that I think is my favorite to date, even though it doesn't have one of the Mount Rushmore Miley singles of all time, because I think it's rooted in a whole lot of, first of all just interesting consistency across sort of instrumentation and genre.

I think a lot of that is going to be attributed to the production team, but we'll talk about that. But also, there's some real stuff that comes out about her life in these songs, but that seems to me any way to be presented in a more, I don't know, just digestible way. That said, she was going to do, she is coming. And we probably should start with she is coming. How do you even think about setting the table for this? Because it's a 180-degree turn from She Is Coming.

Yeah. Well, so let's do the timeline because this is going to be one of the thornyest that we will have throughout this whole project. And that is saying something because some of these have already been kind of complicated. But two weeks after Younger now comes out in 2017, she starts talking about working on her next album. This is when she's saying, you know what, this music, I'm not going to tour it. There's not going to be any more singles. I'm over it. It doesn't represent me anymore.

And she's collaborating with Mark Ronson in particular, and she's really excited about the sound that they're finding together. The first piece of music that comes out of that collaboration is Nothing Breaks Like a Heart, which is on his album Late Night Feelings in 2018. Also in 2018, her house in Malibu burns down. in a wildfire. And she and Liam are at that point living together there. They've been back together for a few years. They're engaged. And a month or so after that happens, we now know based on interviews Miley has given,

in a little bit of a not panic move, I don't want to, I don't want to ascribe that, but just in a little bit of like a searching for something that feels solid, they decide to get married. and a matter of months later the following summer, they sort of realize it's not going to work. She decides to end the relationship, and they end up separating that August. In May of 2019, she says she's going to do this series of three EPs

that are going to be called She's, is coming, she is here, and she is everything, and she puts out she is coming. She is coming, to your point, feels like a return to like the bangers era, at least to me. And knowing what we know now about what ended up coming out in plastic cards, it's very different. What is your sort of top line take on she is coming? There's never been a more insane Miley Cyrus song. than Cattitude? Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm trying to forgetitude. Turn on your attitude. I love my pussy. That means the one I'm saying. Oh. And that is saying something. Yeah.

On the whole of Miley Cyrus and her dead pets, I do believe that that remains accurate. I mean, Cattitude, I just don't even know. It just, because I start with that album

with the EP. I should say. Sure. And, you know, mother's daughter, I think, is the hit on that thing and there's some swish-swish that sounds a little bit

like the Katie Perry stuff. Swish, swish, bitch. But you get to unholy and she's drunk and high as hell again. Yes. I'm a little drunk, I know it. And it's like, and she's definitely responding

to the critics and all this. But at this point, like, she's just, I feel like she's just numb us to all this. I'm just kind of over it. And there's nothing that she can do that's going to make me, I know, it's just going to phase me with Miley or shock me anymore. She can't shock me. And then she gets to Cattitude. And what do you think about Cattitude? And I am shocked. I mean, Elon Musk gets a shout out. There's a lot of pearl clutching to be done from that song. Yeah, I suppose, although I have to say, like, I don't think, I almost go the opposite,

where it's like, I'm, yeah, this is, this is kind of a crazy song. There are some weird shoutouts, but like RuPaul's feature, like RuPaul sounds bored doing this feature. Yeah. And to me, that is the ultimate testament to like, the shock value thing is not working anymore. Yeah. Because here you are working with someone who really understands how to play with. the aesthetics of flamboyance in a way that gets the reaction that you want out of people. And it is completely apparent that on this song called Catatitude by Miley Cyrus, someone who

has reached incredibly high highs, at least as far as how controversial and sort of momentous, they were moments in pop culture history that did just that. Rupal really sounds like this is about cashing a check. And to me, I think that is the ultimate symbol that it's like, we can't do this anymore. We can't do this, this reaching for chalk value in this way. I mean, also, like, never mind the fact that she had done the whole, I'm done with hip hop. I'm not about that culture anymore. There's a lot of misogyny that I can't get behind.

And then kind of just goes back to it. It, a lot of that. You really think RuPaul is mailing this in? I do kind of think that on the scale of. Rupal, I think that is mailing it in. Yes. In good conscience, I cannot even read out loud the lyrics from verse one and three because it's too much. Ride, shine, clocks like pussy time.

Bus my pussy nut while I'm finger in your butt. Do I suck dick? You ain't seen shit. Throw a scene note. Watch you slide down my throat. RuPaul, I mean, it's quite a text to mail in. Yeah. It is out of control.

But it just, you are right that when the song is over, it's like, Miley, it's enough already. Like, I don't need to hear about butt fingering. I just don't. It's enough. I get it. Can we move on to something else? And when you step back, it's like you can't even believe that the same human being just released these last three pieces of music. dead pets and then the swerve to younger now that is ostensibly maybe to reach out to a conservative base,

well, mission not accomplished on this album, because whether it's catatitude, with almost anything on here is going to alienate anyone who would clutch their pearls, with one exception, I think, and I want to give you the floor for slide away. because I think you love this song. It's like one of my favorite Miley Cyrus songs of all time. And I think it's terrific. I think it is so stunningly beautiful. It's like it's poignant.

It has this, it has a perspective on a relationship that's not working, which is really interesting because she wrote this song while she and Liam were still together. Like she... Yeah, but that it could be like, it could be like midnight. could be like Taylor. Sure. Sure. But she, I mean, things happened so quickly with them in terms of being on and off and then getting married and then getting separated and then eventually getting divorced that like in some ways it's if if she wrote it before, she had to have written it just simply not that long after they got married. And it wasn't actually.

on she is coming, right? I mean, it got added later on. It got added later on, yeah. It's important context, because I think without Slide Away, you're just like, what the fuck is all this stuff? Like, party up the street. First of all, there's not a Mike Will watermark on that. I don't even think Miley's really singing on this thing. You got dream where she's saying drugs rule everything around me. Like, you'd be really worried. It's pretty intense and sad that song. Everything around me Slideaway doesn't really fit on the cluster fuck

that is she is coming. No, I mean, it's, first of all, it's like a, it's just a much more straightforward pop song musically, but then thematically it's a complete,

complete departure. And yes, I think it was, it was going to be on, on the second EP and then it got added because clearly they knew it was a good song.

Right, because they trashed to their EP's. Yeah. I don't think she has, coming sucks. Let me be clear. It's not bad. I dig mother's daughter. I'm nasty. I'm evil. And I think unholy is okay. And dream is kind of interesting if you don't get too caught up in what she's actually telling you. And the most is kind of cool. She's singing that thing full-throated, the little I'm on fire snare drum hit. Like I'm down with the general sound of this album.

But it is both a departure from younger now and what's to follow. And it just feels like she was experimenting a little bit with Mark Ronson and a little bit with Andrew Watt. And then it just, her life changed and like she has done so many times, she sheds the skin immediately. It's like the metamorphosis, like the gestation period for Miley Cyrus turning into a butterfly is about four days. And you set your watch to it from the time the album is out, she's done and she's on to the next thing. She's over it. Well, and so there's a part of time when, so she's, she and Liam have separated. That throws some of the album or sequence of EPs into a little bit of chaos because there is this question of do we scrap the stuff that was done before this?

Is it not going to, is it going to feel like she needs, she's in a different place? Is this weird? And then she has had tonsillitis. And doctors discover that she has all this damage to her vocal cords. So she needs to have throat surgery, which ends up delaying some of what she's doing. And so we get all the way into 2020. By the way, global pandemic changes a lot of things. And that summer, she puts out Midnight Sky, which ends up being the first single,

but says that there actually isn't going to be an album coming and says that singles let her communicate how she's feeling in real time without the risk of evolving past the work, which obviously has come up time and time again. Later, she says that it's actually because she doesn't want to release an album until she can tour it,

but there's at least a portion of time. Right. There's at least a portion of time when she's saying she's just putting out singles. I mean, nobody morphs and evolves their thinking about this stuff than Miley. and she's always telling us what's in her head at any given moment. I just think the conviction and the consistency of those feelings

is rarely there for a long period of time. And by the way, there's a lot of that theme in plastic hearts when she ultimately puts it out. For sure. Which ultimately happens in November. Right. Two things that I want to hit on are how, this coming when it did in the pandemic affected how you experienced the album and I think the general

experience of the album. But will you tell me a little bit more what you're talking about when you say that you hear this within the context of a resurgence of rock? Yeah. I mean, I I spend a little bit of time with artists and I think a common theme that I see across them is because the album cycle is long, not just after it gets put out and then the tour and everything, but leading up to an album, there can be a year or 18 months since these songs were written, two years since these songs were written, sometimes even longer, before they actually get out into the hands of a fan base. And in particular artists that have existing fan bases, they're not necessarily looking for new audiences.

but they've got a fan base. Like, it's really important to them in a lot of cases for the fans to be where they are. And so this feeling that Miley seems to have a lot, which is that she's putting out music that doesn't represent where she is right now. She's already a year, two years ahead of what's on tape and what's going into the ears of people in that moment. So she sort of constantly feels disconnected from the music. and that is in particular a characteristic of artists who are speaking their truth through their music,

as opposed to just sort of like writing songs that are vignettes or stories are a little bit less personal, right? I just, around this time, Andrew Watt as a producer, is sort of protecting the legacy of rock and roll. and he's working with a combination of artists old and new, and in a lot of ways, sort of acting like a time portal between the two. And so he's working with Pearl Jam, and he's working with the stones. He's working with newer artists all around, like, really guitar-driven stuff. And it's not uncommon for after a few years of a style of music.

music that new things sort of sprout up and sometimes they tap into old, right? And right around this time, folklore was an album that, um, that sort of reject it, right? It was a massive shift for Taylor from what we had heard from her before. It was sort of the, we had, uh, the phrase that you always make fun of me for, we'd reach the edge of the forest of what could be done in that mid-2000s era. I love edge of the forest. Synth stuff. And there was a bit of this resurgence of guitar-driven rock. And look, we saw that, I sit on the board

of Gibson Guitar. When we started, I started working with the company in like 2016 and we were really concerned about guitar's share of sound. Because if you go listen to a bunch of music,

X one direction, there was a lot of music that was being made without guitars. And the question was like, is this an instrument that's going to go by the wayside as we move forward?

But no, as those years, years clicked forward towards 2020, Gibson did and continues to grow its sales because guitars really got reinjected into the fabric of music. And that, by definition, really included rock as well. And so I thought about this album. And I have to say, when this album came out, I wasn't paying as much attention. I was wrapped around the Taylor Axel, right? Because in the calendar there, folklore is out. You've had Long Pond. And now you've got Evermore. Holy crap. I was pretty wrapped around that and then some of the music that had fed into those

things, Boni Vare, the National Big Red Machine. But I distinctly remember taking note of Miley as not just this chameleon, but truly seeming comfortable in her skin as a rocker. And whether that was the Chris Cornell tribute concert, whether that was seeing the cover songs that she was doing. And I think in a lot of ways. Plastic Hearts is a cover album. I mean, you cannot walk through Plastic Hearts. It's hard to find a song on this album that isn't rooted in something else, right? Plastic Hearts starts for sure with sympathy for the devil. Angels like you starts for sure with In My Life by the Beatles. Prisoner is interpolating physical by Olivia Newton-John. Give Me What I Want is the song Closer by Nine Inch Nails. Night crawling has Billy Idol.

on it. Midnight Sky is Edge of 17 and literally got remixed with Stevie in it. Hate Me is an oasis song. Bad Karma is Joan Jett on it. Never Be Me starts with Walk the Line and Play With Fire

which are Johnny Cash references. So you got nine songs on this album that are deeply rooted in rock of old. I know I do this every time I walk the line I play with fire

And it really is to me the culmination of a career where she's been searching and seeking and clearly she had has these heavy sets of influences that hadn't really made their way into the experimentation in the 2010s and she gets to the start of this new decade

and seems to plant herself squarely in a genre that I think probably because of her Nashville roots, feels incredibly comfortable and natural. What I do remember is that she had started doing all those covers. Like she'd started covering Blondie. She'd started covering the cranberries. I feel the same as you that I missed this album a little bit

when it was happening because of the Taylor thing, because 2020 was a weird year. And also, I think, because it doesn't, I don't know, something about it didn't feel almost, like it was one of those pandemic albums that sort of felt like it was recorded for a different lived experience than everybody was happening and something just just felt out of whack when it was coming out. To me, going back and listening to it for this was pretty surprising in the sense that I do,

I think you said this earlier. Tell me if I'm misquoting you, but I do think it is her strongest album, her strongest top top to bottom album. it is less one that's it's the antithesis of most of what we've talked about right it's not one that stands out through a couple individual tracks it is a strong top to bottom body of work that even though it dabbles in you know these tributes to all of these iconic songs and therefore a bunch of different sounds i think does have this cohesion to it but also just a sense of Miley being rooted in the music that she's making and singing that feels at peace with itself

in a way that I think is kind of a first. Like it's the most, it's the Miley Cyrus album of anything that we've talked about so far that sort of feels like an exhale, which is a bit remarkable given the amount of chaos in her life that we just went through that led up to this. But there is something, and I think it is. that Nashville background that even when she has spent more time working in an array of genres,

she always reads as credible in country and she always reads as credible as a rock star. And there is something about this amalgamation of rock tributes from different eras and in different styles that I think this makes us a pretty remarkable album because it feels like, you know, It's not, I don't think that anybody thinks of this first when they think of Miley Cyrus, but it really does come across to me as the album where she kind of comes into her own. And there's a thesis of the artist that Miley Cyrus wants to be, and I kind of feel like she actually might not disavow this one in two weeks, which does go on to be true.

And it comes through in the music, which I think is really interesting. I listen to this and I hear a lot of a lot of 80s. There's some sort of like glam rock almost all over the place here. There's a lot of new agey stuff. Is there, but it doesn't sound, it still sounds contemporary.

That's right. How did they do that? It's Andrew Watt. It's Andrew Watt, who I think lives in the present but is of the past and has found ways through a bunch of his work. Most recently, he put out an album with Brandy Carlisle and

Elton John that sort of bridges the gap. Speaking of Time Portal people, that's Brandy Carlisle who helped bring Joni Mitchell back to the stage, right? And she coaxed Elton into this album. But doing that with Andrew Watt, I think matters. He just understands the art of rock and roll. he's a great melodic songwriter. He sort of insists it feels like in his music about attacking melodies and taking risks. And he's not going to write a Nirvana song. Although, by the way, there are shades of Nirvana across this album. Foo Fighters, now deceased drummer, Taylor Hawkins is playing.

There's a lot to get to there. But his music is very performative. more glam rock to your point than the sort of head down, don't look up, you know, couple note rock stuff. So that's what I attribute it to. This is not a self-serious brand of rock and roll at all. No, it's not. But you're right. Like even in like, even in Prisoner, which is, again, interpolating physical by Olivia Newton, John, if you listen closely, you can hear some lifted stuff from like the Eddie Van Halen guitar parts and beat it.

and that's real 80s, like rock. There's a big-ass solo in that song that Eddie Van Halen played, like all that stuff. Those are the earworms that I think exist in his head and combining it with Miley, I think, just brought out the best in what she can do in the genre.

It's going to be a totally crazy analogy, so just just follow me, please. But the thing that I kept thinking about is you'll often hear in, like, fashion journalism, or clothes analysis that often if a designer is working with clothes that use fur, using faux materials is a moral choice, but it is also something that people will choose to do to make things look contemporary because there is something about the fakeness of it that feels modern.

or the, and fakeness probably isn't a word that's applicable in the musical sense, but it's almost like the, it's like the right elements are digitized. There's something, there are these sort of classical references to these songs, but there is something in the patina, and I do agree with you that I think that that's a testament to the production, where it can both be a cover, and it's also a new Miley Cyrus song. And I think that is a hard trick to pull off. And if you spend the time to get through this thing and really go through every song, I don't want to spoil, but I had trouble with finding something to blast off into the sun here, just not to say that I don't have favorites and less favorites, but it is a really consistently well put together album. them. With that said, I don't remember angels like you being a huge song at all. And allegedly it was.

It's super weird. It's angels like you or the song that wasn't even on either of these albums, which is nothing breaks like a heart that seemed to be the two dominant streaming songs from this record. Nothing breaks like a heart. I remember in its moment. I don't remember people listening to Angels like you. Like I know the song, but I really, like I remember Midnight Sky so much more than Angels like you. Yes. I can place myself just like out in the world hearing Midnight Sky.

I cannot place myself out in the world hearing Angels like you. Is it because it's maybe about Caitlin Carter? Like does anybody... No. I don't think anybody cares. Care about Caitlin Carter? No. I mean, no offense.

I'm sure many people in the world do. But I don't think that any of the, like, in a really unusual turn of events, I don't think that very much of this, even the Liam stuff, very little of this processed as this is the Miley Cyrus song about XYZ. There's some amount of like, oh, this is an interesting commentary on the choices. that she's made and how she feels about her life in the spotlight. And I think like slide away, again, even though it was written before, ended up feeling very tied to her divorce and her relationship.

But in general, and I think this is because it does have this feeling of like this is almost a classic rock album, it doesn't feel linked to the tabloids. And that is a rare thing for a Miley album. So I think it's just about the music. I just, like, I really like me, thank guy. There's a lot of tabloid responding stuff in here, though. Yeah, but I don't think that it was potent in the same way that Recking Ball was. I mean, you know, it didn't, it wasn't like a national event in the same way.

Oh, yeah, for sure. I just think she is on this album a bit more reflective. and sort of directly addressing some of the tabloid fodder about her. Sure. I mean, I think I see it in Slide Away where, you know, she's definitely having a response to the, to the fires in Malibu. I want my house in the hills, don't want the whiskey and pills on and on back to the ocean. I love that moment.

I love when her voice cracks, which just makes me emotional. Yeah. Yeah, but also the like move on, we're not 17. I'm not who I used to be. You say that everything changed. You're right. We're grown now. That to me is really the lyric of the whole episode.

Oh, I got you on that one. I love that song. I love that song so much. I can't listen to that song without crying. I also, I remember hearing it for the first time because it came out of fucking nowhere. And then it was just like, oh my God. I was not ready for this emotional wall up. Yeah, it's, I mean, we can talk about it. I'm still processing it. That's fine. I mean,

I understand. It's a, it's a really meaningful song. I think golden G-string is not for me, and it's probably my least favorite on plastic hearts. But there's a lot in there about her, you know, their layers to this body, primal sex and primal shame. They told me I should cover it, so I went the other way. primal sex and primal shame they told me I should cover it so I went Like I was trying to own my power still I'm trying to work it out Yeah at least it gives the paper something they can write about

So she definitely is acknowledging for the first time She just across all of this work she's a bit more reflective She's definitely growing up post younger now Right where she sort of told us that for the first time and we're going to see more of this theme come out in endless summer vacation. But I also think, like, it is, I mean, I resonate with some of this stuff because I'm in the middle of it, right? I mean, you're, you and I are going to be together this weekend. Yeah.

I'm literally going to drive you up the Malibu Coast, and you're going to see mile after mile after mile of house literally burned and disappeared into the sea. And there is this emptiness and loneliness that comes after your house burns down, not just because people move on and they get back to their life. And you're going to come from outside of the area. We're going to go in past the National Guard. And it's going to be like you're not even going to believe that people are living their lives normally outside of this area. But they are. And there's definitely an emptiness and a loneliness that comes from that situation. but it's also because like you have to divorce yourself from the importance of material things

and the physical presence of home. Like what grounds you has to become like ethereal and emotional. And the things that sort of physically reminded you of the stuff in your life is gone. And it's just it's just memories in your head now. And I think the memories are like the remnants of your life, right? And there's a lot of that that seems woe. into the text here. And Miley has told us before that, like,

these songs, I mean, she went on Stern and made a comment about her songwriting, which is like, it's catching fireflies and putting them in the jar. And they just sort of pulse. And she's like, there's a pulse of a feeling that doesn't have to be you and represent all of you.

But I try to capture that and build something around it. So you're going to see those little fireflies and those feelings. What the fuck is, is a song that is like that. What the fuck do I? Right? Where she like was, what the fuck do I know? Where she was like, she talked about it in that context saying, yeah, I think about Liam

sometimes. But like it's not all me and it's not what I'm completely consumed by, but it felt like a thing that was enough to capture and put in a mason jar and turn into a song. So I resonated kind of deeply with, obviously, with my own personal situation. But I do think that there is a maturation. of the way that she is writing that comes through in these songs. And I wonder if Andrew Watt helped her get there, because when you listen to She is coming outside of Slydeaway,

you might convince yourself that she may never grow up. She's just going to write more catitudes. And drugs rule everything around me is going to be more of what we hear about than the sort of subtle idea of her whole world turning to ash. and, you know, what comes with that is not just your physical things, but it's also super hard on relationships. And I don't think it's a coincidence, as you pointed out, the timeline of that relationship where she just was sort of grasping potentially for something solid and grounding that you'd go get married. And then the process of actually recovering from a disaster like that can be brutal on personal relationships. And so it's no surprise that, you know, at that point, they have to figure out where do they live and what do they want and what matters to them.

And there's all kinds of life reset that happens. And this is the music that came out of that. So it's fascinating to me. And I don't think it's a coincidence that there's more consistency to it because she isn't searching so much here as she's telling us what's changed. It also seems like she is drinking and smoking a whole lot less, at least, you know, by her own statement. Although there's a very funny, there's a very funny piece of a Rolling Stone profile that she did a little bit after this album came out where she's talking about it. She's saying like, I just, I was too reliant on drugs and alcohol and I wasn't thinking clearly a lot of the time and I needed to stop. And I did and it's really helped me, which is great. And I don't, I think that's great. Her next sentence. And this is so, I think this is wonderful. And I think so Miley is like, I would do mushrooms, though.

Like, or have you done ayahuasca? And then all of a sudden she's just like talking about it again. And she does have this sort of verbal diarrhea thing that I think is so charming. But it's just this wonderful. She's given this very poignant, like, reflective comment on how she cut back a lot and it helped eliminate some of the chaos from her life. But then she is like, just to be clear, I would do some shrooms if they were if they were here. I'm like, okay, Miley. It's Miley.

So what is your best song? So I have three from this period. I had to give you a slide away, but you've made the case. I really love hi. Same. Oh, Miley Cyrus singing a song to us. It's really good. It's just great.

It's just a breath of fresh air. And I think it stands alone a little bit for me on this album, because it doesn't. feel directly rooted. Like, I can't directly trace the roots of it. And I think that may be, because the writers are different on this one, too. This is one of the, I mean, Andrew Wyatt produced it, but he wasn't a writer on it. And I think it's also a reason why my other favorite song in this album is Never Be Me. And Never Be Me, I wanted to not like it, Nora. like I really did but I there is something about this that feels like one of the most honest things that she's ever sung.

I totally agree. The melody on it just got got to me. It's a little bit, again, a little bit different than the rest of the album. These are the two songs that stand out for me. And again, I love the rest of the album. It's cool and it's an interesting musical journey. And as you said, there's a tribute to it, but it's not old. It's fresh.

But these are the two that just jump off for me. and that chorus of if you're looking for stable, that'll never be me. If you're looking for faithful, that'll never be me. That is a sad fucking song. Yeah. Yeah, but she doesn't sound, again,

this is that Miley thing. Like she's, especially on this album, there's a self-assurance to it where it's, it's poignant, but it's not so devastated as when you start to really think

about those lyrics. Like, heartbreaking in a way where and it's interesting that those are the, that those two songs, Hi and Never Be Me Stand Out to You as almost a pair that are set apart. I hear that too.

But you don't like golden G string very much and I will say that I find it strange in a few ways. I mean, in particular, there are some really insightful words, I think, like the lyrics that you mentioned about why she's acted out in the ways that she has. There is a portion of

the song where it's basically like, well, the patriarchy made me do it. He says if you can't make ends me, honey, it must be your fault. And it's sort of like, well, maybe, Miley. But the fact that this album, the last two songs before, you know, the remixes and the bonus stuff, it ends on Never Be Me and Golden G string. and it just feels like the moment when you get your lighter out at the concert,

like, or your, you know, your cell phone because it's 2025. Yeah, it does. I just think Never Be Me is like a really great song and I think Golden G string, like, I don't know. Like, melodically, it's not that interesting at all to me. She really says the T in Montecito. I woke up in Montecito.

I was thinking about my life. Yeah, and I just think rhyming that's just the world we're living in with the old boys hold all the cards and they ain't playing gin. Like, I don't, we could have worked a little harder on that one. We don't, yeah, no, yeah. That one was, yeah.

And there's definitely a, but there's a verse in there that's, again, about her own body in the way that she sort of reacted to, once again, Miley Cyrus, if you try to put constraints and boundaries around her, she is going to bust through them. I think the best way to get Miley Cyrus to do something is to ask her to do the opposite.

They told me I should cover it, so I went the other way. Yeah, she will go the other way. But then, you know, then she delves into the bridge, which is, I think, about Trump. And so... Yeah, that's the other thing is that this song is also sort of about the first Trump presidency. So the madman's in the picture

and his heart's in iron... And we did younger now to try to maybe appeal to the conservative bit. I don't know. But so that's why this one for me just feels a little bit disconnected from the rest of it and just melodically isn't as fun for me. I don't know that I can shoot it into the sun, though, because of that verse about her body and like it teaches us some important stuff about Miley.

The second verse matters. I don't really. In truth, there's nothing on this album that I want to shoot into the sun. Like, I don't, I, there's, there's no song that stands out to me as meaningfully, uh, detrimental to the quality of the album. The one that I went with is give me what I want, because it just lands, I guess, a little flat for me. Like, I, I don't mind it. I think it's a good song.

Actually, I would say even more than that. I like it. Yeah, she sings like a fucking animal on this song. She's growling. She's growling all over the album. But I mean, she'd already done a nine-inch nails cover of head like a hole. And so she definitely had that band in her veins. And that's what this song sounds like to me.

I sort of gave us some grace and allowed us to shoot party up the street. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Because I don't even know if she's on that song. You're being kinder to she is coming. than I am. I can...

Mother's daughter is fun. I like mother's daughter. The rest of it... You can't kill Cattitude. I suppose I can't kill Cattitude. It has to exist. Just as a concept. Just as a thing that exists within the record. It has to go in the time capsule. It just

has to be there to understand. Let's hope that's the last of the ridiculousness. But if it is, what a way to go. Rupal. Butt-fingering. Great job. that means she's got catatitude. If you don't feel what I'm saying, I don't fuck with you.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. It just, this album, it just continues, the peak Miley is throwing away two EPs after you've literally announced them. And the sequence of them and the rough dates and the titles of them and throwing away because you're just not there as a human being or a person anymore. I mean, and that's the,

that's the part of never be me that I, that sort of got me a little bit because it's just like, like she's constantly, one way, one, the glass half full view on her on that is that she's constantly evolving, right? And that she's always changing. But then there's this part that's like,

if you're looking for stable, if you're looking for faithful, it's like, is she constantly just in betrayal of herself? Because she's just trying to feel. figure out who she is. And that's the part for me that I love about her art. But even on this album, she's gone through these incredible personal events in divorce, although we've been living with the instability of her relationship with Liam now for five fucking albums, right? I mean, on Younger now, we were like, please get her out. And now I guess she's out, which is great. glad that we're there.

But there is this question that I have about if she's just born to evolve and change, if the chaos that she definitely is comfortable with is the point. If she has to exist in that chaos and completely disavow these little worlds that she builds and then move on to the next, or if it's just part of her seeking someone who never really was given a childhood and an adolescence where, you're allowed to make mistakes to find out who you are. If this is just part of that process of her recovering from whatever emotional and psychological trauma had to come with being worshipped as a child.

Well, and also with the, I wonder, and this is just me theorizing, but I wonder if the specter of Hannah Montana was just so big that it ended up being the first domino. in that she had, she got started on this massive scale, but was instantly saddled with something that she felt like she needed to escape. Yeah. And then there's one force pushing you in a direction that's about not being something. And so then you do something, but then maybe you're not doing it because it's actually what you want to do. You're doing it because you want to get away from this thing.

And then because of that, you're moved to do it again because of that. it just keeps on happening and happening and happening. She, I think this was also in this Rolling Stone cover story that she did around this time. She talked about how, because this was after the Billy Ray Lil Nas X song happened. And she talked about how that was kind of meaningful to her because in part of how they approached each other and it happened was that Lil Nas X was a huge, was really into Hannah Montana. And there was something about this, you know, person in popular culture who's a queer icon, who Miley had a lot of respect for saying, I endorsed that. I loved that. That was meaningful to me as a kid. And I associate you with it. And I think that's wonderful. That was sort of illuminating for her because all of a sudden she went, oh, that was me too. Like that. That was also part of me and coming from me.

And even if I didn't like certain elements of how the Disney machine operates, and even if I was ready to leave before I was able to leave, like, that doesn't mean that the whole thing has nothing to do with Miley Cyrus. And so she does say in this piece, she says, I discredited myself for what I had been almost every. Okay, the sentence doesn't make sense, but we're going to forgive Miley. She says, I discredited myself for what I had been almost every step of the way. During dead pets, discrediting bangers. During bangers, discrediting Hannah Montana. During Malibu, discrediting bangers. It's almost like when I have evolved, I've then become shameful of who I was before.

Yes. What makes you an adult, I think, is being okay with who you've been before. And I was just so happy to read that she said those words out loud. And that that was a concrete thought that Miley Cyrus had in her head and was able to express. And I do think that the sense of like kind of peace, even though it's tackling some really complicated things that comes through with this album or like a comfortable landing spot from her is a reflection of that. Yeah. Yeah. There's just this yin yang inside her.

In some way, she knows herself so incredibly well that she's been. confident enough to do all the things, you know, gestures wildly at everything we've talked about for 25 hours through this journey, right? But in others, it feels like every year she's trying something else on for size. And sometimes she abandons it by the time that it's out. She just, again, she's constantly seeking. But what comes with that is the zinging and zagging that shows itself in the music. And when you couple that with the fact that she is totally a musical mutt, right? She has the DNA of so many things inside. her and that's what's come out over the course of this album journey is there isn't much that

that settles in but I think the most interesting word from that quote that you just gave me is she called herself an adult yeah and she has talked about herself as an adult very recently I mean we're going to get into her new album shortly in a few episodes but the reconciliation with her father and talking about what is clearly important to her most in this moment and in time, right? So she, as we think about next album appetizer, I think there's going to be more consistency on endless summer vacation as well, even if, you know, it's got flowers, which is on the surface, you're going to get an album that looks a lot like bangers, which is you've got some Pantheon singles and then some other stuff. There's, there is more consistency. There's less whipsawing

in the music that she puts out from here. And I think there is an acceptance into that world of rock. I mean, it is crazy that Miley Cyrus came out and sang at the Chris Cornell concert until you go through this journey and understand that she's really good at it and that she would have earned the respect of musicians in that genre

because just of what she can do. Just on the surface, going Hannah Montana to Chris Cornell tribute makes no sense. But in the same way that Meet Miley Cyrus is punk as fuck, plastic hearts is punk as fuck. Yeah. Yeah. And it, I mean, I guess you could say that you could draw the line for Meet Miley Cyrus in some ways.

But this is the album where you could draw, you could put the brackets around plastic hearts and up until now. And I think including this new music that we've heard a little bit of and we're soon to hear more of and go, okay, this is all in the same universe. Yes, there's an evolution, but we're not, we're done with the whipsawing back and forth. And it's, and this is really where that starts. Yeah. And to some degree, like some of the stuff that she was doing, uh, you know, like nothing breaks like a heart, I think fits into this period too. Um, we talked about the collaborators. I mean, I think pretty clear here. I think she did find something with Ronson,

and that was important, but Andrew Watt, you called out. That's who I was going to say as well. There's just a cohesion in the sound, and there's an identifying of Miley as a rock-fluent figure that I think is critical in her development. I did have one more peak, Miley. Give it to me.

I was going to say, I do actually think that it's that she does stop disavowing herself, which I was just very excited about and wanted to make sure that I brought up. However, the other one, at first when she was announcing she is coming in the other two EPs, she went on this whole thing about how she in the context of these three EPs is not a woman. which is fine. And I'm certainly not, like, I'm, I'm never here to try out on anyone's preferred pronouns. The problem is she does, like, she is the feminine version. And so I do think that she got a little bit mixed up.

And so she was going on this whole thing about, like, just because it's, she is coming. It's not about a woman. She said it's not about a vagina. Just like, okay, Miley. And that felt very, only Miley Cyrus, I think, would go. down that. It's not about a vagina. There's a song called Catitude on the first EP. Yes, indeed. That is very much about that. Yeah. No, I don't think that she was being entirely. Not to revisit this for the fifth time on this podcast, but. Yeah. No, I think she was maybe being a little bit coy about

the contents of Catitude. But that was, that was my second entry into Peak, Peak Miley. I mean, I think we just talked about the next album Appetizer. Like, this is, it's really this whole thing. It's the establishment of Miley Cyrus Rock. star. And you have my best lyric. Which is what? I mean, do I have to choose one from Slideaway? It's just like the whole of Slideaway. I love it so much. It's a good song, Nora. You were right. It's definitely top five for me.

Wow. I think it's a top five, Myler's song. It was Slideaway. Really? Yeah. Wait a minute. The climb. The climb We can't stop. We can't stop. And then I would

No, I don't, I would choose Slideaway over flowers. It's going to be, it's going to be a, it's going to be, is it, maybe I would choose like seven. Best of both worlds. No, it's not best of both worlds. But it's like, I can't, I, I would have to think a little bit about what the specific

Santa Montana entry. would be or like Miley from the Hannah-Hara entry would be. You haven't found a song that you like more than slide away other than those three. So there you go. Yeah. I think that's it. I think it's my fifth favorite Miley-Syra song. Well, it's here and it exists and it really was like a lot of Miley stuff.

It sort of existed out there. Like it came out unattached to an album in the same way that Flowers did, in the same way that a number of her other thing. I mean, party in the USA is the song that should be on your list. Oh, yeah, duh. Okay. Okay, maybe it's not my fifth favorite. No, I still think that might make it your fifth because we're talking about party in the USA, wrecking ball. We can't stop the climb.

I don't think there's something that goes higher than that for you unless it's seven things. So fifth it is. Good job. I just like not really willing to not have the Hannah era, but coming from Miley, make top, make top five, but that's, that's okay. All right. Well, five or five. This song matters to you. It does matter to me. No, it matters to me a lot. I do really remember hearing it for the first time and like crying and just not really expecting that. And it was like, it really got to like

number 42. Like it wasn't that big of a song. No, I know. It has not, it has not like been a big song, but it's a big song to me. I think it's so beautiful. It's your Pablo the Blowfish. Yeah, it is my Pablo the Bloofish. Pablo the Blowfish can go back to the city. What did you grade this thing? And here we're really just talking about plastic hearts, right? We're not trying to lump in. Yeah.

This is she is coming. She's coming gets another set of question marks. X slide away because it wasn't on the original. It just gets a number of cat emojis. Or it gets a C for cat, but also for, I don't think it's very good. I think this is like a B-plus-plus. And I am giving the second plus for Slide-Away. Oh, come on.

It's not on this album. Slide-A-way is not a part of this project. Okay, fine. But that's fine. It's a B-plus. Yeah. I think you're right. I don't, the only reason it's a B-plus and not an A-minus is I don't, I don't think

there's like a monster hit on it, right? And we've been frustrated before because we got albums that had monster hiss and the rest was like, whoa, what is this? And now we got an album that has consistency and is really super listenable front to back. And that it's getting a B plus without a song. I mean, I, angels like you, who knew? I was not familiar with your game. But it is, I mean, wow, but I don't think of it as a hit, right? I think of it as the most telling song. You know, she said, she described it as maybe it's part of being something that thrives in chaos. Miley seems to thrive in chaos, but for the first time we have an album that is not chaotic.

Yeah. And that in and of itself, even in the absence of a hit for me, makes it a B plus. And that's right. That's right. All right. This is a really important moment in our journey. Like this is, I think we've entered the era that we will be in sort of in a big picture way. the rest of the way through.

And this is going to... Adulting Miley. Adolting Miley. Feels good. All right. Well, this has been every single album. I'm Nora Preciati. As always, he's Nathan Hubbard.

Thank you to Kaya McMullen for producing this episode. And we'll talk to you next week.