Every Single Album - Pop News Grab Bag: Sabrina Carpenter, Beyoncé, and Gracie Abrams

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

Nora and Nathan talk about a mix of pop music news from the week, including the end of the U.S. leg of Sabrina Carpenter's Short n' Sweet tour (1:00), the news that Beyoncé will perform at the halftime show during a Christmas Day NFL game and whether this is the start of her Grammy campaign (25:44), and Gracie Abrams's first top 10 song on the Billboard Hot 100, "That's So True," and why fans seem to be connecting with this song (50:07). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Bill Simmons. I am thrilled to announce our newest YouTube channel. It's called Ringer Movies. If you're a fan of our movie coverage here at The Ringer, then you're in luck. Because every episode of The Rewatchables and The Big Picture, now on YouTube. Like Bill said, Ringer movies will feature full episodes of my show, The Big Picture, the Rewatchables, as well as special live episodes, deep dives into movie history, and a bunch of other fun stuff featuring other movie-loving Ringer personalities.

Search Ringer Movies on YouTube and Experience the Joy, Chris Ryan impersonating Wayne Jenkins on camera. Welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Pinciotti. I am here, as always, with Nathan Hubbard. And we've got a jam-packed show full of news and updates from the pop girly world. Sabrina Carpenter was in Los Angeles. Charlie XX has been in New York. Gracie Abrams is seemingly everywhere.

Beyonce is going to be in Houston on Christmas Day. And we are going to run through all of those. news items. You and I've been out and about. Yeah. Yeah. Starting with some personal anecdotes. Some personal concert recaps from yours truly and Nathan.

Nathan, I want you to start because you saw Sabrina Carpenter twice, I believe, over the weekend. Tell me about the short and sweet tour in Los Angeles. Celebrity Cluster F. Absolute bugzapper of. Influencer, TikTok or YouTuber, musician, actor, actresses, hot people jamming themselves into

the forum club in Los Angeles to see and be seen. It was, look, I have to say, I saw her in Brooklyn. You saw her, where did you see her? I didn't see her. She only, her shows in New York were exclusively on football.

She did. I think she did like Sunday and Monday, Thursday, Sunday and Monday or something. It was like... Yeah. It was hard with the dates. It was hard to get the right dates on this tour. But what I'll say is this. You and I, well, I guess I saw the Taylor Show early.

I saw the Taylor show in Arizona, which I think was the second, or in Vegas, which was the second show. In the grand scheme of things, I also saw it early. We just, when I saw, we didn't know that it was going to be like 80 million dates long. We didn't know exactly how unbelievably early it was going to be. I saw the Taylor Show, the second Taylor Show, the difference between the second Taylor Show and when she got to Los Angeles

was massive. And it was that she was super comfortable hitting all of her marks. She wasn't counting her steps the way that Dua does. She could introduce the SAS, right? Remember when Yumi and Kai were there, the SAS is what we remarked upon in Los Angeles.

There was so much SAS. And the SAS comes. with confidence. And the show was hitting all its strides. I saw Sabrina in Brooklyn, it was really good. And they were still working a few things out. They were still working out some lighting things.

They were still working a few other things. And man, I'm telling you, not long after I saw it, they locked it in, I'm told, but L.A. was on. And the energy leading up to it was twice what I felt in New York. And the show itself was mad. The crowds was strong.

She was introducing all the sass, which is a reflection of confidence. Christina Aguilera came out on Friday. Did I say that right, Nora? You still can't pronounce her last week. Gosh, why can't I say her name? That's between you and God. I don't know. Christina Aguilera came out.

Christina Aguiflera came out and crushed it. And it was a big moment. And then we had Dolera. Domingo showed up. Yeah. Is there anything you want to say before I arrest you, Domingo? Came on this way. How to explain.

Being up from Domingo. On Sunday night, brilliantly after the sketch ran with Charlie XX on Saturday. So that was quite the turnaround. And Sunday night was really just the star fucker night. I mean, it was just flooded. That's where you had the Katie Perry. John Mayor interactions. That's where you had the whole Kardashian clan, the Haley Bieber clan. I want to ask you about this. And I'm assuming I have not asked you about this offline. Maybe you have inside information, but I'm assuming you don't hear. That's not why I'm bringing this up. But from where you can tell from where they were sitting. Yeah. Was that just like the celebrity pen area? Yeah. No, I know exactly where it was. And Phineas and Jessica Alba and on and on were there last night. They're is a celebrity pen at the forum that is just outside the entrance to the forum club in the arena.

And so you walk out of the forum club, which is the backstage friends and family area. They serve food and there's a bar there. And there is a separate artist area, backstage area, that's like where the close people will be or the band or something. And they'll, they can meet and greet a little bit before the show. But it's not, it's almost like a game room. The Forum Club is where the artist guests are. So you stream out of there. You can probably fit, I don't know, a hundred people in there, maybe last night.

It felt like there were 250. I mean, it was crazy on Monday night. Because it's not just like artists close friends, right? It's like label. It's management. It's like the venue. It's all of the CBC people. Yeah.

There's industry people back there. And then there's like TikTokers, YouTubers, Instagram influencers. and like actors and actresses. Yeah, it's that crew. The reason I'm asking is what I'm curious about is like, did Katie Perry and John Mayer? Did they know they were going to be seated next to each other? And if anybody hasn't seen,

they had a conversation that looked totally, you know, amicable, fine, whatever. There's a possibility that Katie's body language is giving, man, this guy is droning on a little bit, but I certainly can't say that with any certainty. John Mayor is doing John Mayor things. that clip he is talking at someone. But they're sitting like they're not sitting next to each other. Well, no, but they're saying basically behind each other.

Yeah, that is Celebrity Row. Yes. And you know, did somebody stop to think about that? I don't know. We'll never know. And I don't think it matter. But I just, the way that they were sitting, because he was in the row behind her. And then like one off to the side.

Yeah. It was just catty corner. enough to make it seem like it could have been just, you know, nobody thought about it, nobody noticed, nobody whatever. I think that's exactly what happened. I think you've got all these inbound ticket requests. You got all these inbound ticket requests. I mean, Leo and Selena and all these people, you assume, are asking for tickets at all these shows. And then as an artist, you've got a certain set of holds. The artist isn't thinking about exactly where to put them except maybe like those front rows, right?

Katie seemed to have pretty good seats, didn't she? Yeah. And that's probably where the, well, in that row, there, you would have seen Kendall Jenner and Haley Bieber and like, they're all there, right? It's a whole, it's like going to the zoo, Nora. It really is. It's going to the zoo because then the people on the floor turn around,

they look up at those seats and that's how you get the videos like you did, John and Katie. It's a thing at the forum, whatever. but this was, this was an event. I just have to say, it was an event. And to me, what I noticed in particular last night on Monday night with the end of the tour was just like the cultural relevance of Sabrina in my head when we first had espresso. The question was, you know, and the nonsense outro, even before that, the question was, hey, how much of this is flash in the pan versus how much of this is like locking in? And I mean, I have to tell you, I watched Amy Allen sing a bunch of her songs last night in the crowd.

I just like said, I was like, man, I wonder what it feels like to be an incredible writer and just sit there and watch somebody go perform these things. I mean, Jack was there with Margaret, right? Yeah, Martinov was there. Yeah. And the funniest part, actually, was they showed Jack Antonoff. And there are enough six-year-old girls in the crowd that there wasn't a massive roar because the six-year-old girls had no idea. who Jack Antonoff was. More of them knew who Margaret was. But look, I am leading to this. What this weekend taught me above everything is that Sabrina is not a flash. Like, she has enough cultural

relevance that the moths are drawn to this flame. And to me, it really is the quality of the music. Like, this is a great record worthy of an album of the year nomination. The stuff outside the big hits is high, high quality. And last night, I mean, I, you saw Juno, she was very cheeky with her little final position on stage, but Juno is still in the chamber as a bullet to use. I mean, Bedchem is presumably next. You've still got Juno sitting there.

And I think Sharpest Tool is still my favorite song. And the way that she sings it is full of the feeling around it. She lets the crowd sing. Anyway, I'm very worked up. over this because it was energizing to know that... You had a great time. You went to a great concert. It's not just you and me talking about this.

This is more than just like a quick flash moment. Like this year in music matters and it's permeated the culture. And on a weekend, you know, in which Charlie XX was hosting SNL and we got announcements from a bunch of people. Gracie's showing up like you said all over the place. Sabrina in L.A. was a solar system. she was the sun in that solar system and it makes me excited

hey, it raises the bar for what she does from here, right? The next album is going to be fascinating and I suspect she's already hard at work trying to figure that out because that's what she does. But yeah, it was a great weekend and a great way to end a show that accelerated as much from Brooklyn to L.A.

as Taylor did from Vegas to L.A. in half the time. you see her like work herself sort of into the cultural fabric of like memes and S&L sketches. Like the Domingo thing is so funny because that's another layer of a reference point that brings people back to Sabrina Carpenter. Right. And the year that she's having. And I think that's what short and sweet has in common with Brat is that like we've listened to so much great music this year. and it's been such a crowded space,

but identifying the stuff that is really good on its own, but also that has like leveled up in a way where there are, like, have you ever tried this one, has become a meme? And that'll live on in a way that goes beyond

just people listening to the songs and in the same way that, like, Brat has had so many different lives because of that. And the concerts, it's just like, it's interesting to me to see, concerts become, one, just like a space for celebrity culture, but also for all of the extracurricular kind of raw material of culture in general to, like, be created in those venues.

And obviously, you know, these last run of hers in L.A. I think has shown that, you know, Brat will end the year as the number one example of that. But I think she's really, really done it too. People wanted to be seen at that show. It was something. Tell me about Deeper Well and Casey, because you went in New York and I saw from your story that she played Rainbow last,

which just... Was it last? It looked like she said by and got on the lift and disappeared. She closed with Rainbow, which was really wonderful. There was a lot of crazy weird smoke on that stage. A lot of smoke. I think my friend and I were walking around, like we went to dinner in Brooklyn before, and we were walking into, when we were walking into the Barclays Center,

and first of all, no one asked what I'm just going to tell you. The American Express entrance at the Barclay Center, I guess I should thank them for how secure of a venue that must have been, because I have never in my life, not inappropriately, But, like, I've never in my life been patted down and, like, had every item in my bag picked up and been like, what is this? Those are my apartment keys. What is this? That's my cell phone.

What is this? Really? It was like a whole situation. But anyway, we get in. And you could see, like, it was really foggy in there. Yeah. And I think they've been practicing the smoke machines. I think it might have lingered from the night before

because this was an hour you know, it got in an hour before she went on and judging by the amount of fog that went on that stage during that show I can see it having lingered that log It doesn't ventilate very well That building I remember I was there for the opening of that building Jay-Z played a show

And yeah, there was so much haze and smoke And it wasn't just the explosion machines It was the people It was the fucking people but it was hanging up in the rafters. Let's not roll that out. Yeah. And the funniest shit about that building is they hang up fake-ass banners in the rafters

because no Brooklyn team has ever won shit, I guess until now because the Liberty just won. So maybe there's going to be an awesome banner up there. But they've got like a Biggie Smalls banner up there because why the fuck not, right? It's just a weird building. And if you're in the upper decks there, you have to like go. There's some sections in the upper deck where you have to go down to the lower deck and over to get back up there. I don't know how they built that thing. But needless to say, it doesn't ventilate great.

But boy, it looked like the show was quirky but great. How do you describe it? I had such a good time. My number one takeaway is that she is just a really underrated, I guess, but just really good singer. Her voice is lovely. Yeah. And, you know, you can hear that she's really singing up. there and musically, I thought that was the best party experience, which she sounded great.

I will be honest, it was a weird show. I found it to be a weird show in a lot of ways. Tell me. In a way that mirrors how we talked about that album, just in the sense that it is so mellow. Right. That it felt like maybe it was, you know, an amphitheater show or a show that was meant to be in smaller, more intimate settings that had been transposed

on these bigger arenas. And I believe she sold out both nights at Barclays. So obviously the demand is there and people want to go see her. I, you know, myself along that. That's exactly what we talked about, isn't it? Right.

And it just felt a little, like sometimes it felt a little like she didn't have the energy up. There were a couple times when she would do the thing where she would stop singing and want people to sing back to her. And she chose weird moments to do it.

And then it wouldn't really work. And then at one point it happened and she was like, last night was louder. And it seemed a little bit not like a joke. Oh, man. So there was some funky moments. Yeah, maybe a little scolding. But she sounded great. The two high horse and justified were the two high points of the show.

And those are the two high energy songs. Yeah, those are really the two high energy songs on the entire set list because even Follow Your Arrow, they do it like sort of in the round, pared down and pretty slow. And follow your air. So I could have stood to be like moving and grooving and up in my seat and boppin a little bit more. But I had a great time. She is Spacey Casey through. and through. Like, the fog,

there was a whole situation where she has this, like, it's called the deeper well wolf. Had you heard about this? What? I had not either. There's, when she does deeper well,

she's, like, going in between the two stages, and she walks around with this big wolfhead on a stick. What? Like, Lord of the Flies style? It's not so much Lord of the Flies as it's giving,

like, Renaissance Fair. Oh. There's a lot of actually... Is there a falconer somewhere? Yeah, it has that vibe. It really... A weird amount of the show was giving Renaissance Fair. That's what I'll say.

Well, I watched your... First of all, I would have paid for a ticket just to hear Rainbow. And as it seemed to be sung there. But, man, from your story, it looked like towards the end of Rainbow, she was making her way towards the back of an... elevated stage to get to a lift that was going to lower her. But the smoke was up at least to her knees. Yes.

And so I was like, holy shit, is she going to trip? Is she going to fall? Like, how do you make your way through that muck? Was there any fear on the ground that she was like, did it look that way to you? So there's a lot of, there is a lot of smoke, but she is, this is the other thing. She's barefoot the whole show, which is like so, again, so Spacey Casey. She's just like, she's in her, her cooey-sleeved, like,

woodland goddess nymph dress. And she's just not wearing shoes. She's just running around not wearing shoes. There's a part of the show where she goes to a second stage in the middle of the crown. And there she does put on, like, Hunter Wellies. Okay, I don't know what that is.

It's like a rain boot. It's like a muck boot. So she's really like one with year. The only shoes she wears on this show are muck boots. Like she's, Flamming? Yes. Yes.

Like, think about the difference is an experience that you and I had where you watched Sabrina Carpenter wearing like no less than five inch platform heels at all times. And still being under five feet, by the way, yes. Totally. But Casey is just like, like waltzing around barefoot. I'm texting you a picture of the deeper well wolf right now.

I don't know that I want to see this. Yeah, Nathan's going to react live. Holy shit, look at this thing. Is that a deer? That's a, no, it's a, it's a wolf. It has antlers. Okay, it's a wolf with antlers. You're right, it does have antlers, but it's a wolf with antlers.

It's a, it's a, it's a dulf. It's like a, it's like a deer and a wolf. I will repost Casey's post of the deeper well wolf on my Instagram. I consider myself someone relatively tapped in, obviously, to the pop music scene. When she pulled out this wolf, I was like, I don't know what this is. And I don't know what's going on. Can I tell you 100% honest story? Yes.

So earlier today, I went for a run and I took my dog and I walked outside my house with my dog. And you have met August. So August himself kind of looks like the deeper well wolf. No, he doesn't. A little bit. He's so cute. Yeah, but I mean, listen. Yeah, he is.

Well, that's... Anyway. So I walk outside and there is a tall dude walking towards me with a huge smile on his face. He's probably 25. And he says hello to me and I say hi back and he says, I like your dog. And I said, well, thank you so much. And he goes, I'm having a spiritual experience right now. I took peyote an hour ago.

and I was like, all right, dude, good to see you. And he keeps walking down the street in the direction that I'm about to take Augie on a run, okay? I stretch because like I need to. And I stretch for like, you know, two and a half minutes or something. And then I'm ready to go. And so then Augie and I just start running down the street. Nora, this guy, when I pass him, is projectile vomiting all over the side. So he went from I'm having a spiritual experience to like all over my neighborhood.

And what I am telling you this story for is he definitely was seeing the fucking deeper well wolf. That's so funny. Oh, that's hysterical. Thank you for helping me understand this day. Yeah. Yeah. No, totally. Totally.

Thank you for helping me understand my experience at the deep. well door and shouts to that guy. But it was a fun show. Tuesday. Tuesday morning. Fucking peyote projectile vomiting. That's intense. That's an intense choice.

We wish him well. We wish him deeper well. We wish him deeper well. We wish him deeper well. He found a deeper well, I think. Oh, my Lord. Hopefully he's not, he's not like lying in one right now. Anyway, we had some good.

shows, Nora. I am, you know, Casey is an interesting one to me. I just, the vibe is so intriguing. It's really what comes next for me with Casey. She's got a very interesting set of choices to make about where she goes from here. But I will say that I'm glad you saw her and I would like to see it live because I'm with you that the voice just gets me. And that, that Instagram story, I was like, oh, I want to see Casey. Yeah. I mean, I don't think, I think there was a lot more that was more than worth the price of admission, but what you said that Rainbow alone, like, does it? I'm totally with you.

And I will say, while I'm, you know, speaking my truth here and saying that I had a really lovely experience, but it was a little off in certain moments, I was sitting in front of, you know how sometimes you go to a show and the person behind you, you just quickly realize is like the number one Casey Musgraves fan. Oh, highly invested. And just like the shrieking and the screaming

and sometimes you're like, all right, man, tone it down a notch. Yeah, yeah. But it is also like someone is just experiencing such joy. Right. They're having a spiritual experience. But that was fun. And that was a guy. And the other thing that I will say to you, a lot of men.

Huh. A lot of men at the Casey show. I'm making an assumption here. I think a lot of gay men. Okay. That's what I was going to ask. Yeah. What did it look like?

Yeah. The pit, the floor area. like 60% dudes. Huh. And I just was very surprised by that. So also just an insight into the fact that there is a very committed, like I came away understanding that,

you know, it might not be massive, but there's a very committed Casey Musgraves fan community. And there are people where, you know, even though you and I are like love her music so much and love our favorite pieces of music that she's produced so much but have sort of gone in ebbs and

flows. There are people who are like really, really with them. They ride or die for Casey. Yeah. Yeah. And that came through. Speaking of writing, or not dying. Let's talk about Beyonce. Amazing. Is it any surprise to you, Nora, that this album came out lots to do around it. And then it's kind of like she stopped doing work for six months on it. Yes. If you go on to Beyonce Reddit, you see a lot of people talking about like the lack of promotion. And now we have documented this a lot on this podcast. Jay-Z stood up at last year's Grammys and made what I think was the start of a campaign to get Beyonce the album of the year award. She is

the most nominated artist of all time at the Grammy. She is the most. The most awarded artist of all time at the Grammy. She does not have an album of the year. And the four times that she's been nominated and lost, you could say that she had a case going against fearless, going against Beck album, going against Adele is kind of a tough one, going against Harry. I mean, you could say that she had a case. I'm not necessarily making it, but you could understand it. So here we are now. And it feels, as we've said, to me, like there's an existential potential crisis for the Grammys if she does

not get this and is a five-time loser of album of the year, especially with this album. But Nora, when I look at the betting markets right now, the betting markets say Billy Eilish's hit me hard and soft, which I think you and I identified at least, I said, I don't know if you disagree

with me. I don't want to put words in your mouth. But I thought if Beyonce didn't win, Billy's going to win for a bunch of reasons. First and foremost, the album is fucking awesome. Secondly, the Academy seems to love her. But all of a sudden, Beyonce seems to be doing the work. Well, she's at least hinting at it in case anybody missed this announcement that she is doing the halftime show at the Ravens Texans game on Christmas Day,

which is in Houston, her hometown. It is going to be streamed on Netflix, which is a first for an NFL game, which is a big deal. And yeah, it seems like she's doing the work in the sense that this would be the first performance of anything from Cowboy Carter, I too took it as maybe not exclusively, but as her putting herself out there to

maybe nudge some Grammy voters or just reassert herself in people's consciousness going into the main voting period. And I think you know, whether it's like just or not, I think it's a smart move.

Because I have to tell you, The more I think about it, the more, and this is not a value judgment or a value statement, this is just like a predictive sort of kernel of feeling, something in me feels like Billy is going to win. Yeah. There's a vibe. You're right. And it's a bit like, listen, you cover the crap out of football. It's like when, you know, some guy is running for a touchdown and he thinks that nobody is going to catch him.

And so he sort of slows down. and then all of a sudden there's a defender on his ass and he just starts sprinting to get across the line. It sort of feels like that is what's happening. Not that she's been showboating at all. I just, the silence given the magnitude of this album and, by the way, just the size of it and the number of co-performers

and guest appearances on this thing for it to just sort of come out and then not a lot is kind of strange. So I'm glad that she's doing it because I think it's going to be awesome. What do you think she plays? Well, I think, I mean, I think she is going, like, here is my prediction about the set list

is that she is going to work in the line, AOTY I ain't win. But they do it again. A-O-T-Y I ain't where that's grown. I ain't something about them. Oh, really? The more I think about it, the more if this is a Grammy's oriented choice,

I think she kind of has to shame people into doing it because I just, I'm just putting myself in the position. That worked really well in the election. Sure, right. But who knows? Might be the only option because I'm putting myself in the position of a voter who hasn't, who, you know, clearly people haven't voted for her

enough for her to win in the past. And even if you sort of understand the moment that the Grammys are in and how important it is, I think it could be really easy to be, and maybe even on some level the right thing to be sitting in front of your ballot and going, I simply think the Billy Elish record, and we know the Grammy voting population loves Billy Elish.

I simply think the Billy Elish record was better, and it is my job to vote for the thing that I think is better. And it's a complicated year, because in some ways I don't think that that's an unjust position. If she lost this year, you could, I'd feel better about it than the Beck record. I would feel, you know, and I love Harry's house, but I would feel better about it than Harry's house. And some of that has to do with Renaissance, actually, relative to Cowboy Carter, not Harry's House versus Billy's record.

But I just, I think she's, I think if she's going to convince people that this is, you know, this is a little bit of a lifetime achievement thing. This is an overdue thing. this is something that she has earned, even if this is a complicated field, I do think she's going to have to kind of come out and remind people of that. And I wonder if she uses this platform

to do that in some ways. I'm all for it. More Beyonce is better. I wish there'd been a video with Miley. I wish there'd been more, but I'll take whatever we can get right now. I think the other possibility, if it's not just Grammy lobbying,

and obviously these things are not mutually exclusive, is if she might, end up announcing something using this platform, whether that's a tour, whether that's an upcoming Act 3. Merry Christmas. Here's my new album. Could you imagine? Bad ass.

If it's like, if it's the rock piece that completes the trilogy. Yeah, I thought you meant like the rock, like Dwayne. Not Dwayne the Rock Johnson. No. The Rock will come out on stage at the NFL game and he's going to announce the new Beyonce record. Great. great. He shows up at all the Super Bowls and shit. You know, he's always making the announcements the last couple of years.

Anyway, it's not going to be The Rock. You think she just goes all Cowboy Carter and because she's in Houston and that she just does this album? Yeah, I do. I mean, I think she might, you know, could she work freedom in there? Maybe, maybe that feels too loaded. but I couldn't see that happening. They're just not that much time, is there? Yeah, I mean, if it's like a halftime show for the Super Bowl,

which it's no guarantee. It won't be that long. It's going to be like when Creed plays. You think Beyonce is showing up for eight minutes? Yeah, I think she is. That's the point. This is not, you know, sometimes on these Thursday night things like the Halsey thing where it's like an hour of content.

This is to borrow a phrase from Sabrina. This is short and sweet. Well, but the halftime show is short and sweet in the sense that it's like 15 minutes long. But if this is considerably shorter than the halftime show, then, I mean, she'll be in and out. And maybe she closes with some yeah, yeah, and she does a little bit of American Requiem. And she weaves in Texas Hold'em. And that's kind of it. It continues the art of this project.

Half-time, football, on-streaming, Christmas Day, lots of American eyes. What's the statement going to be? And more interestingly, which has been the point of this entire project, what's the response going to be? Totally. Yeah. It is also a little bit of an entry into this idea of how Beyonce has been received and how Cowboy Carter has been received by these Americana, like these institutions, both in country music. You know, there's a lot of crossover with Texas football, right?

Like, she is coming into a lot of people's houses and making a lot of statements there. And I think that is really cool. And I also think she's so intentional about those moments. But obviously, like, in country, that has not been generously received. If she does Texas Holdham, do you think she's going to sing This Is Texas? Ain't no Holder? Probably. Probably.

At least once. All right. And you think she's going to do the album of the year thing. Do you think she's going to have Post Malone come up and be a guest? I can see it happen. I mean, Post Malone loves to come to a football game, loves to pop up and sing a few bars at a football game. I guess I...

I got a picture. picture of Post Malone at a football game. I have one of those too. He shut up with Sean Mendez. Dream Blum rotation, as they say. To a Cowboys Rams game. Yeah, I mean, he's out and about. He does it.

I don't think so. No guess. I don't know. For some reason, like, I could see in some ways I could see Miley more than I could see Post Malone, especially because, like, Post Malone is not really a great. he's competitor of hers now, but like, I don't know if she's sharing that spotlight. I just don't, especially because he has been... They're competing for a country album of the year 100%.

So you're right. I don't think that it's like any animosity or anything like that. No. Like he has gotten the warm welcome that she has been denied. And therefore, I think it would be a little weird if they were sharing that stage. Post Malone will be available to be seen at Coachella, though. It sounds like, which I think he announced. accidentally?

Or like it wasn't... Coachella hadn't said anything yet. And then he just posted his tour dates and the two dates of Coachella were at Coachella and people figured it out. Right. It was kind of like, oh. Cool.

You know, the last year, by all accounts, was not the best year for Coachella. And there is some concern that the festival which I still think is the certainly the biggest American curated festival that introduces people to new artists

but it has strayed a little bit from that over the last decade and become a little bit more headliner dependent. And the problem in the business of festivals these days is that because of venues like the new Intuit Clippers Arena that Steve Balmer built here and

a lot of arenas around the world that artists can make a lot more money going to stadiums on their own or arenas on their own than they can play festivals because the price of beer and parking and the ticket price that you can actually charge with a great production in an arena or stadium

is so much higher. And so it's just a little business point to say a lot of festivals are secretly struggling a bit because they can't actually pay artists enough to get them to come. And if you're a festival that is headline dependent, meaning if you don't have a headliner,

people aren't just going to show up, as opposed to what Coachella used to be, in a lot of ways still is, which is like you're going because it's a right of passage and all the cool kids are there and whatever, so that if, you know,

it's Nora and Nathan headlining Sunday night, like people are still going to show up. Coachella last year really struggled with that, having become a headliner dependent, and they didn't quite deliver it, So this year, I think the people who organize that festival are hellbent on delivering home runs. And I think Post is just that, but he's not the only one I think we're going to see at Coachella.

Interesting. I also think the other thing they have to kind of think about solving for is like it is such a zoo and has become such a, like, you know that there will be hundreds of influencers and brands doing their, activations and like using it as a space to make advertising. Right. And to me, the sense that that is happening is like not a thing that seems fun and cool and interesting to be around. And that has become so dominant that that's like in two ways, right? Because some people get really excited about it and they want to be a part of it.

But then if you don't like if you're not a part of it, you can't be. And then that frustrates people. And then it also, I think, like, I don't know, it seems, I wonder if some of that has jumped the shark a little bit. And I do think that you see it in particular at Coachella. And I felt like when people complained about last year, that was a lot of it. It's hard. The cost of delivering an experience has gone up dramatically. The cost of people, the cost of staging, all the sort of fan experience stuff. And Paul Tolet and Golden Voice, like, they care about the fan experience. And so the economics of these things, suddenly you've got two weekends of Coachella.

I'm not sure it's profitable if they just do one weekend right now. Like at least not if they deliver the same kind of experience. And to your point, like when the vibes get a little weird and it becomes more about like you're walking through the filming of a million different commercials, it's going to be very interesting. Which is not them, right? Like, I mean, I'm sure there's some things you can do about it. But like when something becomes cool, you see this with everything. right? Like something becomes cool and then all of the brands descend.

And it is a challenge for something to stay cool once that happens. And I think, I think Coachella has to deal with that too. Big year for them coming out of a year in which ACL at least on drone camera looked cool as hell. It looked fun at ACL. Yeah. Look pretty massive. But I think they're going to figure it out. It's still Coachella. It still is a right of passage. It's still a really fun festival when they get it right. So, um, I mean, do you think that there's any, who I would call sort of the big three right now in the pop girlie space being Charlie Sabrina Chapel? Do you think there's any chance any of those people do it? I do. I don't, my guess is not Sabrina because she was just there last year. Right. The. Interesting.

But, yeah, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see what comes. It might even be a bigger surprise. Taylor Swift? What's next? Oh my God. This is how rumors get started. Okay, I guess we're just going to talk about Charlie XX now, who was on SNL this weekend, who hosted and was the musical guest on SNL this Saturday. Very passable performance. Ah, passable.

Great. I thought it was really good. I thought it was really good. but then I was so confused why I thought the mean cute digital short that they cut for time

at least on the East Coast was like one of my favorite sketches I'm so sorry no I'm sorry I was walking around like a like a dumb hairy Italian yeah I mean

with the Please Don't Destroy Boys yeah the Andy Samberg sketch was separate and that was funny. Yes. Yeah, they, I don't know why they cut it. And they kept in some stuff that was just okay.

But it was, for me, the craziest thing about the whole night was you could see the seams in the box that she put her in, that they put her in to perform. Like, it was like the set design people did not close up the seams. So in the like brat green box that she was dancing and you could see it. It was so, like, jarring after a couple weeks of performers, like Chapel's performance, for example, right? It was so jarring for her to just be, like, in a box. And, of course, like, the, the janky nature of it and the, it was all brat. It really was. Yeah, it was perfect.

It was fucking brat. It was so good. And it was like, I don't care. Fuck you. I don't care. I love it. She has really taken over New York. City this weekend too.

Because she took over Times Square, right? Yeah. So she was obviously, she was on SNL. Then, you know, they have a big after party. George is there. Maddie Healy's there. Like, A.G. Cook is there. Her whole crew is there. They're passing on the vapes. And then last night,

Monday night, as of when we're recording this, I think it was part of like an H&M thing, but she did a pop-up concert in Times Square. And then that also had after party where everyone was also passing around the vames, etc. She's like doing the work. There's a new photo of her

leaving her hotel in big chunky boots and a mini skirt and like a belted top every morning last week. Like she's just, she's having a real downtown moment even though she actually spent a lot of it

in midtown. Well, again, she is nominated for album of the year. And she's doing the work. And Sabrina's out here in L.A. nominated for Album of the year. And everybody's coming out to see it. And Taylor Allison Swift turns 35 on December 13th.

Shortly after she plays her last few shows in Vancouver, she's going to do the work of some sort. So, like, there's a lobbying campaign underway. and everybody knows it. And I think I shared with you the insight that at least secondhand heard that Charlie herself had done some lobbying to keep her album in the electronic category so that she would have a chance to win. And that's what this is.

She's doing the work. And everybody kisses Grammy ass in some way. Everybody goes out and campaigns in some way if they really want to do it. And she's just doing it cooler than everybody else, isn't she? Yeah. She really is. I'm so into her. I would walk into traffic for Charlie X-TX right now.

She just seems so fun. I thought she was really good on SNL. I want to go to the after parties. They all look fun. She looks like she's having a great time. We don't dress in a similar way. But every time I see her wearing something, I'm like, you look good. That's awesome.

That's so cool. I do think it's funny that the 1975 is just like incredibly around right now. Yeah. It's the rehab campaign. It's the Maddie Healy rehab campaign. Rejoined Instagram and posted downtown lights. On his Instagram story. He's such a little.

Sending the Swifties. I'm sorry. He is such a little bitch. He is. He posted the Annie Lennox cover of Downtown Lights and just posted it on his Instagram story. I forgot exactly what the caption was, but it was like, I mean, it wasn't, I haven't heard it in a while, but it was like, if you haven't heard this,

this is a great cover. And it, I mean, begrudgingly, I do feel I have to respect it. Well, it's a much better move than Sean Mendez putting hallelujah as the last song on his new album. From your lips, she drew the... Which,

again, for everyone listening, is a Leonard Cohen song. And in dumb and poetic, Sabrina Carpenter sings about him pleasuring himself to lyrics by Leonard Cohen. He put out an album that is lovely to listen to.

It sounds like a John Mayer record. It sounds like... I'm going to be honest with you. I'm learning that this album came out. I knew this album was coming. It had been posted. boned, I'm learning that this album is actually now out in the universe from you live on this podcast.

I'm going to save you some trouble, but it, look, he opens with a song where he says, I don't know who I am. That's the song. And that is the vibe of the album. And the last song is a Leonard Cohen song that is done unironically, I think. And not as good as Jeff Buckley's version. And what are we doing here? Who's given him these choices? Who's making these choices?

Because this is a hugely talented young man who is very handsome and a very good singer and a very good player. And I'm just curious what is going on with this talent. I don't totally get it anyway. It's not the comeback. It's not the witty comeback.

to the Sabrina stuff that Maddie Healy reactivating his Instagram and posting that song is. I think Sean Mendez is maybe trying to figure some stuff out. He's 100% trying to figure some stuff out. And that's kind of what this album is about. Yeah. Sigh. Hopefully there will be more and maybe better things from him in the future.

Sounds like this isn't his moment. And that's okay. You know whose moment it kind of is, though? Talk to me. me. Gracie Abrams. What is going on? Yeah.

We covered the Secret of Us, her album, when it came out, obviously. And I think both of us liked a lot of it. Like, as the operative word. Yeah. Like, maybe it felt like some of it just sort of didn't quite get over a hump. However many months it's been since we did that, she's now got a deluxe version out. That includes the song That's So True. which is currently the number four song in the world on Spotify today.

She is just dunking all over us. And can I just ask this question of you because I have no answer. At the time, what you said is, I'm not sure why I should care. And the thing that I am seeing about Gracie, and we're going to get to Paul Meskell, because you're going to have to explain Paul Meskell to me too. everybody's internet boyfriend but we'll come back on that

it feels at the core like this woman there is something about her that just eons of women relate to very naturally and very easy and that I whiffed on that I don't

no surprise I whiffed on that but that it is really easy for girls and young women to feel connected to Gracie. She is somehow extremely relatable and they see themselves in her. On top of that, she has like dramatically accelerated the quality of her performing in six months. Like talk about running up the learning curve. It is incredible how how sort of steep the quality, you know, the performance has gotten in terms of just quality.

But people are just gravitating to this. woman. And what I want, like, do you feel that? Do you see it now? I thought it was really 50-50 that people might just, she might get subsumed as Nepo baby and, you know, the songs weren't necessarily hits until this one, which is definitely a hit. Explain it to me like I'm an old man because I am. Well, so, okay, I'll like try to answer the pieces of that. Do I see it? Yeah, in some ways. But it's interesting to hear you say that a big piece of this or what you're sensing as a big piece of this is that people relate to her. And I do think that's true. But I don't like, she's not in my feeds a ton in terms of videos of her interacting with fans or giving interviews or sort of like showing bits and

pieces of personality that people relate to. I absolutely believe that those things exist. But like, that's not what I'm getting bombarded with. I think it's the song. The song is really good. And I think the song does what risk does. God, I'm actually invested. Haven't even met him. Watch this be the wrong thing.

And I love you. I'm sorry. I think also does, which were the two songs that I gravitated to the most on the album. You were the best, but you were the worst. As sick as it sounds a love. Which is that

I was a dick, it is what it is I happen to kick the age old cut. Which is that there is a frankness and a, a relatable vernacular

that she's able to write in. I think about your dumb face all the time. Yeah. I could go and read your mind. Think about your dumb face all the time. Living in your glasshouse,

I'm outside. Absolute home run. That is, to me, that is the Gracie Abrams thing. Uh-huh. And what I bounced off of a bit on the album originally was that it was, it was hard to, it was hard to figure out exactly what the Gracie Abrams thing was.

There were some pieces that I really loved where you could say, okay, like, I think she does the same thing in risk. And I loved that song. but it felt like she was pointing people towards the Taylor collab. I felt it. And to close to you. Which just didn't seem like her. So that's where I was like, I don't know why I'm supposed to feel like,

like I don't know how I'm supposed to feel about this because I just, I don't, I don't get a sense of who Gracie Abrams is from these, but it seems like she's pointing me towards them. This song, she's clearly, that's so true. she's clearly pointing people towards it. It is, like, I don't see her on my feeds, but I hear this song in, like, every other TikTok.

I also think that, like, people are just talking about her. I had a friend, like, two days ago, just organically text me, what's your favorite Gracie Abrams song? Huh. And that's just one thing, but, like, that's never happened before. Yeah, my Billy Eilish daughter, Billy Elish fan daughter, not... that I had a daughter with Billy Alex.

My Billy, my Billy Alice fan of a daughter. Yeah, just to qualify. Right, of course. Said, Gracie takes care of her fans second best to Billy. That's what, that's the vibe. There's just some like crazy connection that's happening right now. Interesting. I did see, I saw a video where she was like,

somebody had given her a phone and she was FaceTiming a fan that couldn't go to a show and that seemed very sweet. Like, I bet that's part of it. I am less tapped into that. I think the reason that I feel like I have a sense of who she is and something to relate to is, I think it is within the music. And it is the writing style where, you know, I think about your dumb face all the time, like that, that kind of late millennial Gen Z kind of online vernacular. Right. Weaving that into these really tight, you know, these tight pop songs.

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, well and good. I buy that. Did you see the pictures of her and Paul Meskell at the premiere of Gladiator 2 last night? Yes, I saw like some of them. I mean, it is a fucking smoke show, the two of them.

Yeah. They look great. They're a good-looking. I was like, damn, that is an it couple. But yeah, I finally got it. I was like, oh. Did you see the video where he jumped on the horse? No.

He had to, for Gladiator, he had to learn to, like, mount a horse at full gallop. So she's, like, running next to a horse. It has a, it's saddled with a Western saddle. And he's, like, running next to the horse. He has his hands on the horn of the saddle. And then he just, like, jumps and he gets into the saddle and then he's on the horse. Wait, that's just your story about Paul Meskell. I thought you were going to relate this to Grace.

No, that didn't know. You said that like with, you just had this goofy grin on your face. Okay, see, that's what's happening to people with Paul Meskell. What my, my, my, my, movie daughter, not a daughter that I had with a movie, but a daughter who likes movies says that, like, he is her favorite actor. She loves him. Not because she thinks he's like, she's Googly ad for him, but because she thinks the quality of his acting is exceptional. Yeah. Well, and he seems fun.

Yeah. It is a little weird that he came to the ERAs tour twice. With two different women. Who were openers. It is. That's kind of funny. No, it's really funny. He is the new first gentleman of the Ere's tour, I do think. I mean, I guess we've talked about this before. I guess that's Travis.

But fine, the second gentleman of the Erester is Paul. He's the Doug of the Eres Tour. I can't. I'm happy for him. I'm happy for him. I'm happy for Gracie. I just, I dig that song. I also, after we,

and we didn't shit on that album. I thought that album was promising. I just didn't quite get, I didn't feel that way. That's why we're having this conversation because there's something culturally that she's woven into here, including, by the way,

being in the Taylor Swift slip stream and like a NASCAR shooting around it, you know, using that energy and force to get around. She's done everything right. I will tell you who has become, like, the number one Gracie Abrams fan in my life is my fiancé, who over the summer,

I would just, like, be playing songs in the car. And every time I played a Gracie song, he would just be like, oh, who sings this? Like, this is good. Who is this? Who is this? And, like, over the course of months, I would just be like, it's Gracie Abrams.

It's Gracie Abrams again. It's still Gracie Abrams. So clearly, like, some people, People are responding to something that I'm not, that I wasn't. But now I am. So that's great. Next week's pod, we're just going to have you do entirely in your fiancé's voice. That's not what he sounds like, but I can't do it. I'll do Adele the whole pod. You do your fiance's voice. We'll have to, I'll take that under consideration. Last thing before we go.

Yes. Yes. I'm going to make you talk about Tate McCray again. Okay. I'm ready to talk about Tate McCray. Okay. Great. I'm glad to hear that. So last week, two announcements. One, she's got an album. We knew this is coming, but it's called So Close to What?

It's coming February 21st. Yep. And then we got the second single from that album, two hands, which came out last Friday. Featuring two chains. Not featuring two chains. Two hands, no chains.

And then she's going on tour next March through September. So it feels like next year is kind of shaping up to be the year where Tate McCray really goes for it. And we'll get to watch and see how much that resonates and how much it clicks for people or not. Does that feel like that to you? Nora, it is all there. We know she can dance. We know that she is ready to do what it takes to, you know, she's got the look.

it's just about the song. And so how did you feel about two hands? I liked it. And I actually, it has around 10, 10 million streams on Spotify, which isn't like gargantuan, but it's certainly not nothing. I don't feel like it is a smash hit. You know, I don't feel like these two, I don't feel like it's okay, I'm okay.

And two hands are like espresso and please, please, please. But I think they're both good. I just wonder if... Is it enough to break through the noise? Right. In a really crowded space. I don't know if it feels like it's enough. But I wonder...

She's playing arenas. Right. She's playing arenas. Enough to play arenas. I'll tell you that. She is, by my estimation, great with visuals. That's kind of what I was getting it. Yeah.

Who, because of her talent is a dancer, and I think her, some of the savvy for just sort of, of putting images together in a cool way. I would be interested to go see. And a lot of the tour seems to be outside of the U.S. She's doing a lot of American cities, but she's spending more time outside of the country, I think mostly in Europe.

But I can see it potentially being something where she builds the fan base by touring. She builds the connections with people. by getting out there on the road a little bit and connecting some of the visual stuff with the peer music. And I wonder if that would be the way that she kind of seals the deal.

Maybe that's optimistic, but I think it's possible. I don't think so. If you offered me some stock to buy in Tate McCray right now, I'm going to buy some stock in Tate McCray. She looks great. She sounds great. She dances great. She is well-managed.

Jeffrey Azoff, Harry Styles manager. is managing her. So in great hands, just needs the song. That's all we're waiting for. Ryan Tatter, don't mess this up. Well, you know, she's going to have a couple more bites at the Apple.

We know that. This is Sabrina's sixth album. So it can be done over time. But you're right that there is now this, okay, you're getting on the big stages, you're playing the arenas. Is it coming? I mean, she's like,

her face if you walked around in I had a dinner and kind of near the garden on Friday and she was up on the garden like you see all the billboards you see the Times Square billboard

like it's telegraphing this is a big Tate McCray moment and I guess we'll see yep it's coming as as the noise of the 2024 pop girls subsides a bit that's what's going to crescendo in the background is Tate McCray. So it's going to be fascinating.

And meanwhile, Gracie Abrams, having this just parabolic growth has put herself into the conversation as an arena tour artist and a festival headliner. So even there are these micro cycles of stardom happening even within this crazy 2024. Cool. All right. I think that does it for a very newsy episode. I'm going to go so that I can send you this TikTok video of Paul is called Jumping on a Galloping Horse. I'm going to go take some peyote. Try to not projectile vomit all over your street. Twice in one week seems like too much. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Princeati. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you so much to Kai McMullen for producing this episode. We are going to be off next week. Enjoy your Thanksgiving

holiday for anyone celebrating. But we'll be back soon. Thanks. Thank you.