Every Single Album - Taylor Swift Is Engaged

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

Nora and Nathan discuss how Taylor Swift shut down the internet with her engagement to Travis Kelce. They talk about the logistics of making it a surprise and keeping it a secret from the public, their Instagram caption, and how this could affect her music (01:00). They make their wedding predictions, including where it could be and who will be in the bridal party (30:19). Hosts: Nathan Hubbard and Nora Princiotti Producers: Kaya McMullen and Olivia Crerie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you had to pick just one album to define the 21st century so far, what would it be? I'm Cole Kishna from Dissect. And I'm Charles Holmes from The Midnight Boys. And on Tuesday, July 29th, Cole and I are launching season four of Last Song Standing. But this year, we're mixing things up. Instead of searching for an artist's greatest song, we're asking an even bigger question. What is the greatest album of the 21st century so far? Listen to Last Song Standing on the Dissect podcast feed or the Dissect YouTube channel starting Tuesday, July 29th.

Welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Prenziati and I am joined, as always, by Nathan Hubbard for an episode that is not technically an emergency pod. We are recording at our regular Tuesday afternoon recording slot. And yet this has the energy, the frenetic energy, the chaotic energy, the excited energy of an emergency pod, I think. Because Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey announced via joint Instagram post. mere hours ago that they are to be wed. Congratulations to the happy couple. Nathan, I'm so glad you're here on this joyous occasion.

Do we do like a collective scream? I mean, the videos coming out from like Gracie Abrams concert lines. People are freaking the fuck out about this. And with love, get a grip. But we're freaking the fuck out in our own way, I think. But I will not be doing a collective scream in part of. part because some people listen to this on on headphones. And I don't think that that's very nice to those listeners. So, Nora, you know, there's all these videos that are rolling in like, you know, news anchors finding out

about it and then going live with it. There is, though, this collective, like, certainly I think productivity in the United States dropped by about 85% for about two hours this afternoon. Mine included. I am so lucky this is my job. Yeah. Well, I understand. I am thrilled for her. I am happy for them. I think it's great. All of it. Triple thumbs up.

Can we just start, like, can you just explain from, in particular, what seems to be the female fan perspective, why this is not, I mean, of course,

we love to celebrate somebody's happiness. Like, this is definitely the royal wedding. Is it just those vibes? Or is there also some, like relief sigh after watching this woman go through the torture that made her the poet. Finding somebody who jumps in and does pretty much from day one, everything right.

And we get our love story. Like is there some relief or is this just genuine projection of joy and satisfaction in a moment in time in which summer's winding down. The world is weird. People need something other than, you know, drugs and alcohol to escape the hell that is their daily lives. Just tell me what the feeling is that we're, that shut down the internet today. Oh, yeah. I think it's some of all of that. I mean, I do think that there is, there's such a, there's such a fairy tale element to it. Right. Like, I've been thinking a lot about how there's a trend. on the upcoming life of a show girl called Actually Romantic.

And if I had to guess, I don't know. But if I had to guess, that feels like it must be a reflection of something that she talked about on New Heights. The sort of over the top, Travis' friendship bracelet and a dream initial courtship of her is in line with these ridiculous grand gestures that don't seem like they're out of real life that she has been writing about in songs throughout her entire career. And so, yes, I do think that the- It's kind of what she said on the pod, right? Like the say-anything moment from the Cameron Crow movie where John Cusack's holding the boom box playing in your eyes, just like, please date me.

And she got it. Totally. Well, and it's like, and it's so, he has the big giant flower arch and it's beautiful. And it just, they seem so in love. Like, weddings. are fun. Love is fun. Like, that's some of it too, right? It's just like happiness makes other people happy. But I do think there is something about like having, you know, I'm choosing my words carefully here because I think something that you and I have talked about a few times is, is the fallacy of the trope that, you know, she can only write songs when she's sad or hurt or vindictive in some way. And I don't think that's true at all. I think she can write from a joyful place. Well, she's, that's what we're going to get on October 3rd.

But people who have been fans for a long time have certainly like, to some degree, through the music, been along for some of the ups and down. So there's a, there's, you know, I think there are ways to do it that are a little too parisocial, but I also think that there is some satisfaction and in the ultimate happiness of that. And I think, you know, I found it interesting that the, that the caption on the post. It was so great. your English teacher and your and your gym teacher are getting married,

like acknowledges the fan as a part of the relationship almost, which you got to hand it to her. Like that is a very generous thing to do to your audience, to not keep that for yourself, to basically say like, you guys are part and parcel to this. And I have the relationship with you where I am like the English teacher and I'm always, you know, using this flowery language

and illuminating all these specific things of life. And then here's Travis and Travis is the gym teacher. And he has that connection with people too. Like I found that very notable that the you was addressed in the caption of the post. I also found it pretty notable that there was a post in the first place. Like, where are you on the fact that, you know, we can talk about the timing of everything, but at least in some degree of short order after this happened, they told everybody.

This wasn't something that we found out after the fact, oh, you know, Taylor and Travis got married in a small ceremony last month with their friends and family. This is photos to the grid, joint post at Taylor Swift, at Killa Trab, still his handle. And they really like did it up big out in the open. What did you think of that? Let's start with the complete insanity that is running three countdown clocks that make everyone think something massive is coming.

And then surprise, it's just another vinyl. And literally the next day, blammo, you know, pow, here we are in like a fucking rainforest cafe. And I've got the rock of Gibraltar on my finger. If you like photos, you know, how you like them apples. So she's just insane. It's so great. I think I'm pretty sure Tree Paine was consulted on this, Nora,

and I suspect that Tree Paine... I mean, think about what had to have... First of all, who is the photographer? Because it looks a little bit like that middle school photographer, like where it's a little blurry in the corners. Like, that's an effect.

Like, I can't believe that the fuck-ass yellow filter was not put on these photos. Oh, that kind of makes me sad. But who was the photographer? It would have been so funny. It would have been terrific. But maybe there's a, you know, maybe there's a different edition, a different version of it that'll come out just like the vinals.

But like, think about how many people would have had to have stayed under NDA just to make that happen. Let's talk that through a little bit. We don't know. Because I have, I am purely speculating here. But I have to imagine, I think this, my best guess for where this happened was in his backyard in Kansas City. because I don't think there's anywhere else where he could do it. Like, I imagine she coordinates basically all of their travel because she has her whole system and it's easier for him to just hop on board.

And I think that's been the case from the get-go. I don't think that there's really a way for him to, like, get her to a location or be at her house and have any amount of logistics that don't either raise. flags for security people whose responsibility is to her and not him and therefore, like, would have to get involved because of their jobs, I assume, or just in ways that she would find out herself. So I think it has to happen, like at his home, his turf, he can set it up the way that he wants. He can consult with Tree. You know, Tree can, Tree can be making the color palette and Tree can be like floating ring design ideas. Or maybe it was Abigail. Maybe everybody tag teamed.

don't know. But that's my best guess is I think this happened in Kansas City in his new backyard. And can I go a little tinfoil hat here? Please. Or not even, but this is just one thing and this, I know a lot of people caught this is if you look at the photos, Taylor Swift, who is known for frequently rocking a colorful manicure, appears to have either a very simple nude nail, but maybe no nail, maybe no manicure. Which first of all, begs the question, was this a surprise? Was she genuinely surprised? Like, didn't know it was coming, didn't have someone be like, hey, well, you know,

maybe you want to get him done, sis. But also, that same nail seems to be what was on her hands a couple weeks ago when she did the New Heights podcast. when she holds up the album cover, you can see on her hands, like there's either not nail polish or it's really, really light. And it doesn't really look like

just like one layer of gloss. It really looks the most like it's either a nude or she doesn't have anything. And that has at least made me wonder, one, the surprise thing, but two, did this take place kind of right around the pod? And if so, was it before? or after? Could they possibly have already been engaged when they did that pot? And do we need to

revisit every single Easter egg and stop thinking about the Super Bowl and start thinking about whether or not they were teasing this? Okay. So now you're now you're off the cliff. This is where I like you. You're back to be in looping Nora. That's fine. Here's what I'm going to say to you. There is no chance that Taylor Swift with a straight face could have looked in the camera and said this pod gave me a boyfriend if she was engaged. But the pod did give her a boyfriend. There's no way. He might not have than her boyfriend anymore. It depends on what the meaning of the word is, is he had a game in Kansas City, or he had a game Friday night.

They were off until Tuesday. On Sunday night, the Chiefs documentary had its premiere in Kansas City. Travis was there with a little bit of a wry grin on his face. He got out of the car, he put his jacket on. I'm just saying they were off until Tuesday. My own bet is this happened yet. Monday. Because I just don't think you can sit on this information for very long,

especially not when it's done in a rainforest cafe with a middle high school, middle school photographer taking the pictures. Like there's no way they could have sat on this for very long. Plus, if she's going to sport that thing around, yeah, they are nice. They are nice. Listen, it's beautiful, but you're exactly right. Like, this had to be somewhere that just was full lockdown. Otherwise, that thing leaks out in its own way.

I think if he did it at home. I mean, we knew about the album. Yeah, but the album, think about how many people have to be involved in the album. And particularly once you involve, as we've talked about vinyl and all the retailers and all the packaging and all of that. Travis could have. Somebody made this ring. Okay. And but that person clearly, first of all, had a huge. And the jeweler has talked, by the way.

The jeweler has in the last hour or so, like, a. piece has gone up where they're talking about the stone and the design process and it's eight carrots F color, S-I-1, clarity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. By the way, I do think the ring is really, really her. I think he did a good job. It looked like a Super Bowl ring in the first picture. I was like, what did he get her? Gynormous.

It's El-Higante for short. But I do feel like I think a chunkier gold band, the antique cushion cut, that sort of vintage look is very tailor. I can't quite see in the photos whatever's going on with. It seems like there's little side stones, but there may be like set in a bezel. It feels very like it does have that vintagey, a little bit art deco vibe to it. And to me, that really tracks with her. Last Great American Dynasty or Marjorie or somewhere in between is the vibe. People are saying that maybe there's a T on the side, so that maybe there's a T on both sides,

which would be a cute little thing and consistent with the fact that they are just all in on the TNT. Well, and that's really like what they do is Super Bowl rings. It's always like the engravings on the sides and the letters and all of that. Right. But okay, so the jeweler knows. But the jeweler doesn't necessarily know the timing. But also the jeweler has signed an NDA that would. make a CIA agent weep, presumably.

Well, the jeweler's trying to make a million dollars too. And the jeweler is also, you know, the publicity and everything. Like the jeweler has so many incentives to not mess this up. Then who do you need? You need a florist. I imagine you probably also get the florist under some legal lock and key. You also don't have to tell the florist exactly what's happening. Now, I don't think you want a random florist running around Missouri being like,

I went to Travis's yesterday and I set up a giant flower arch. I don't think that would be ideal. And a swing. A swing. A bench. Yeah. But then beyond that, what do you need? You need whoever's taking the photos. That could be someone who's in the circle. And then I think you need tree pain. And that's basically it. Yeah. Well, come on. You also need her dad. Well, sure. But like, that conversation doesn't need to happen a week ago. That conversation doesn't need to be. I don't know. This is just not something that could be very well kept. She missed

Selena Gomez's bachelorette party for whatever happened this weekend. The only explanation for me as to why she wouldn't have shown up at that is because he talked her into something to the effect of, hey, I need to hear this weekend for this or can you stay this weekend? Like, I don't know, whatever he said was going to happen. It feels like it was Saturday or Monday. That wouldn't. That wouldn't. shock me either. Like she should have been at Selena's thing. Yeah, although I was reading something that said that maybe it wasn't even a bachelorette. She just like went to

Cabo with a bunch of friends. I don't know. They all got off the plane wearing sweatsuits that said, that pick I didn't see. Okay, confirmed then. I don't know. Yeah. Look, the thing that I just keep like, how did this happen? Did she walk into the backyard and saw it and there's

some guy like hiding on the side with a camera? That girl can find a camera in a stadium of 90,000 people. she will look right at your ass when she feels that camera on her. So how did, like, at some point, she must have known, right? This wasn't a surprise. Couldn't have been that big a surprise. I do find it really hard to believe that what if I told you none of it was accidental,

didn't know. I also think it's like really hard to not at least kind of know, even if you don't know when. Right. two committed adult partners typically have a hard time not involving each other in things like huge life decisions like do you think there's any chance that Travis does this without being 100% sure that he's getting a yes he's getting an unequivocal I love you you know to the moon and back uh I'm not saying uh hey by the way yeah I want to do that

but like there's a conversation about finances that we need to like anything like that that's all completely put away. This guy shot, he shot his shot on a podcast. Like he is going to just take his swing. And that said, you know, these weirdly planted stories in People magazine over the summer that were like Travis and Taylor are taking their relationship to the next level. Like whoever that is who's feeding that in, there's been a lot of chatter because, of course, their lives are aligned.

And listen, for me, like, having watched this woman come out of the I wouldn't marry me either phase of midnight, you know, being in a relationship for six years in which it didn't happen, and she clearly wanted it based on some of the writing that came out of that, at least wanted marriage for herself, if not in that moment, understanding, right? two years fellas that's the right time like at two years especially when you're with the most famous person on the planet and by the way we're not spring chickens exactly nora like we're 36 here in a few months like it's it's you're not old but like hey let's if we're going to move these things along you know uh the bioclots and all these things like let's go and by the way parents aren't getting

any younger like let's do it so i i feel like now was definitely the time that's why I just didn't receive this information the way that the people in the Gracie Abrams concert lines and the internet did. I mean, I get that it's like a moment to celebrate, but like, odds were off the board.

They were getting engaged this year. This is Travis's last year of football. They're going to go figure out their life and get married next summer, right? I mean, that was the plan six months ago, I think, for people paying attention. I'm not at all surprised that it happened. I am a little surprised in the world.

way that it happened. Like, not in the way that it seems like the proposal happened. I'm just surprised that they posted. I'm surprised that it is so, and maybe I shouldn't be because that is how they've been throughout this entire thing. Ripped a Band-Aid off. Control the message. I just would have anticipated like a more keeping it to themselves sort of thing. But what do you, do you think that that means that it's going to be like that throughout the course of them planning a wedding and having a wedding? Like, are we going to, we can't possibly know where Taylor Swift's wedding is going to be before it happens? Because I can't imagine that she would know. Find that acceptable from a privacy and security perspective. I don't know about that.

I mean, first of all, the reason they had to post, Taylor always controls the message. But have you seen that fucking ring? Yeah. No, she wants to wear it around. If you got that ring, listen, if Travis gave me that ring, I'd wear that ring around. I mean, for crying out loud. Like, there's no way that she can go out now anywhere. She's going to walk through, she's going to walk through FBOs at private airport. She's going to, what, people are going to see her. And if she wants to, you know, wear the thing and celebrate and do the thing that you do as a newly engaged human, like she has to get the word out there. So that, that to me, I think is why they posted because they like to control the message. I'm obsessed with doing that because you want to

wear the ring in public. I find that incredibly relatable. There you go. there has not been a celebrity wedding where people haven't ultimately known where it was happening. And I'm thinking about every single massive one that we've had, the only alternative is for her to elope. And I think that she probably wants the fairy tale.

So we're going to ultimately know. And it's going to have the same level of security. They're going to pick a spot that allows for that level of security. And whether that's somebody's private home, whether that is, you know, her own place. I mean, God, I don't think it can be Rhode Island because it seems like everybody is, I mean, that would be a fucking shit show.

But like, they'll figure it out. And they'll either do it really big because she and they deserve it or they'll do it as small as it could possibly be. It just doesn't feel, you know, one of the remarkable things I thought about that podcast, just when we finally got to see them sort of communicating normally,

is that they're just trying to have a normal relationship. And they're actually committed to that and that that is part of the important overlap of their Venn diagram circles. Is they're both committed to that normalcy in a world that doesn't look at them as normal human beings. And they sort of found each other and an ability to be themselves. So I expect that they will try to protect their right to be normal human beings in the circus. And, you know, she should have a wedding, man. She should have a wedding. She shouldn't have to elope because, you know,

the 16 gaylers are going to protest in the corner or like, you know, some some weirdos, some weirdo dudes are going to come out of the woods. You know, I just think they're going to figure out. Can I call my shot here? Please. Lake Como wearing Vera Wing, like every good millennial fantasy. Does this change the way you think about her playing the Super Bowl? What, like the Chiefs make the Super Bowl?

half time they get married on the 50? I mean, she just comes down from the rafters in the dress. It's kind of like Gaga, but there's more tool. Yeah. Yeah. She comes out of the stands out of the rafters, out of the bleachers, whatever. But I don't think there's almost nothing that the NFL wouldn't let Taylor Swift do as evidenced today by the fact that Adam Schaefter sent a push note of

via ESPN about this. Yeah. Yeah, it's a little, listen, it's a big deal. Let's allow the internet to break. I'll tell you why it changes the way that I think about it, because I think it confirms what we suspected, which is that she is getting into her life.

And don't forget that this album that's coming up that I think is going to be a peek into the joy that she was feeling in the early stages of this relationship, at least one year in. And I can't, you know, I can't emphasize enough that I agree. with you that she is capable of not writing just sad breakup songs, but we haven't had an album where the central tenant was joy. And that's what makes me so excited about life and showgirl.

You don't think that was true of Lover. But I mean, Lover had sad, poignant songs, but I think that was from a pretty thematically joyful. Yeah. I, I, I, this is really neither here nor there. I think it was, but I don't think it. Racking my brain. No, no, no, no, but I just, I think you're right, but I think there was enough in there that was tumultuous, and it wasn't the central tenet and theme of the album in the way that

her hurt was a center, sort of the center of reputation for me anyway. Like there have been things that, or even tortured poets, like her torture was the central theme of that. So I just

don't think she has ever been in this place, and there is something about the human exclamation point that is going to fuel. Uncomplicatedness of it because now I'm interrogating my own question. I do think lover mostly came from a joyful place, but it was a joy. Think about, you know, I don't want to lose you, hope it never ends. There is an inherent anxiety to that, even though it is beautiful and special. this is like there's something very solid about it.

She posted so high school as the song on the post. Come on. Like this is going to be an album. You know how to ball. And they're going to be overt. Yes. They're going to be overt. They're going to be direct, right? You know what you wanted.

And boy, you got her. That's what this is about. Her previous relationship was one that was surreptitious and hidden and in the shadows by design. this one and the energy that she pulls from it is celebrating her open publicness but creating a space where they can just be normal but still embrace who they are, which are these massive public figures and not have to like run away from that. So look, I think I think the album is going to be great. I just think it confirms that she has a plan because that album was recorded a year ago.

and she has been pursuing this plan, you know, letting her feet heal, letting her body heal, being at rest, going to Yellowstone Club, going on secret vacations. Like, that's what she's been doing. And I think they've pretty well telegraphed that this is probably Travis's last year. And I think that part of her thinking was, hey, if we get through this summer and everything is good, then yeah, we're going to get married and we're going to start our lives from here. So I say all that because she ain't touring in summer 2020. folks. She's not going on tour. And so that tells me that if she's got that fucking bug that pushed her up on stage at tight end university with Chase Rice's guitar, maybe she does one last hurrah here for a little while where she goes out on TV. It's just that this thing takes so much

rehearsal time, so much planning, so much effort. It is absolutely her nature. But I just wonder if I still, listen, I think it makes it more likely that she's going to do the Super Bowl is my take. I still in my heart of hearts think she has to be sitting back going like, is that how I want to spend my fall? Is that how I really want to do it? Am I crazy also for, so first of all, what you just said is compelling to me. I am in agreement that I still don't think that she's going to do it. But the idea that would, the idea that that would give her a chance to put this thing on stage and on one of the only stages in the world that would kind of come even close to matching the type of cultural saturation of something like the heiastor. Like there are just almost no things like that and the Super Bowl is one of them.

And she's just crazy enough to do that, right? I mean, she's so maniacic, like she's just so driven that I can't understand why she's, she would do that while planning a wedding. But like, it is a very Taylor Swift thing to do. And I'm probably crazy for thinking that the NFL or Rock Nation would have trepidation about it. There's part of me that thinks it would make sense if they did. But also, I'm just thinking about how today went. And again, the Adam Schefter push notification of it all.

They probably go, who cares if the other team is mad? It's Taylor Swift. we roll out the red carpet. Okay. I'm with you that I still am a no, but I'm compelled by that argument. I'm compelled by that logic, much more so than anything

that has to do with bread. Yeah. Can I just put you on the record on something? I think you answered this question. Were you surprised that this announcement came now? The honest truth, Nathan, is I don't, this is not what I think about. For as much as I think about Taylor's

Swift. I'm sitting here trying to think of the last time that I thought to myself, when are they going to get engaged? And it's honestly been a long time. Like it's, it's just not where my head goes with her. It goes to, is it Max Martin or is it Jack? When is the album? Is she going to tour? You know, how many vinals is an okay number of vinyl? Like, those are the things that compel my brain just like a little bit more. And so I don't know that I had, I had the sensation of all of a sudden my phone is blowing up and oh my God, look at the ring, look at all this stuff. When did this happen? Where did this happen? Like, blah, blah, blah, blah. I can't place myself within a, I thought it would be sooner or I thought it would be later. Like, this makes as much sense as anything else to me. Yeah. I just think about her

is such a planner and as a person who thinks about her life in terms of eras and chapters, as a person who has cycles, right? And just from a logistical standpoint, it felt like, I mean, what's he going to do? Propose in between practice like before flying to the Raiders game in October now, like it's now or, you know, it's after the season. And so I was, was actually a little surprised that it hadn't already happened during their sort of fun time this summer. Since you don't think about it, Nora, I'm going to give you 10 seconds to think about this and then you have to answer. She has five bridesmaids. Who are they? Go. Okay. Abigail, Selena. Well, I think her brother would be in her wedding party if that's okay. Ashley Little

Bob, Kara Delavine. Oh, God. Heim. Kylie Kelsey? Oh, interesting. I guess I'm... So then maybe her brother would be in Travis's party and Kylie would be in hers. But also, Nathan, what about Heim? It's going to be hard.

Maybe they're the wedding band. Well, maybe she has eight bridesmaids. God. Blake's not in there, right? No, no. I think that ship is pretty well sailed. Carly Claus, not in there. I think that ship indeed also pretty well.

sailed. Could you imagine? Lana Del Rey? She was in the Super Bowl suite. Oh, yeah. Lana, Lana, Lona possibility. I mean, who's a fit? Okay. Sabrina. Sabrina, as much as they seem close, I don't feel like we see them interacting as much on purely social terms. Like, they hung out so much when they were on tour together, but I feel like, I guess that's not where I would go first. I mean, what about, you. You, and I both of the opinion that like all is well and good between Jack and Taylor, does Jack have a

role? Does Jack, like, we're assuming Jason Kelsey, Jason Kelsey best man. Kylie could be Taylor's or like. Are you sure about that? Well, what? Pat Mahomes to me seems like the front of them. Oh, really? I think, no. Are you sure? You don't think that his brother is going to be his best man? I would be shocked. Well, here's the thing. When you have multiple brothers in the mix, I guess he just has his brother, but he's got Taylor's brother, maybe you go, hey, I'm going to have my best friend. I don't know. I'd be interested to hear what the audience thinks of this. Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't even considered for a second that Travis's best man would be anyone but Jason. Pat is probably in his, maybe Pat is one of his groomsman and Ross Travis. What about the guy who traveled? Yeah,

Ross Travis. It's still so funny that his name is Ross Travis. Yeah. Yeah. And then maybe like some other members of the entourage. And then I don't know. I think like there's like. Yeah. His business buddies. I mean, Travis has boys from high, from like elementary school that he still hangs out with. Well, they could have really big wedding parties. They could have a really big wedding party. Yeah. Or if they have so many people, they could say.

you know, we're going to have family only Kylie Austin Jason parents and then everybody else you know maybe you get a special seat or something but you're here to do you think Andy Reid

officiates it? Yeah so that's a real I mean if Pat Mahomes's best man I think Jason officiates it otherwise I do kind of think Andy Reid officiates the wedding and like does that mean that Andy Reed is going to have to get like fake Italian ordained or whatever it is.

Well, I mean, Lucy Dacus is doing it on stage right now. Why not? There's all these things where like in certain in certain states, like you, you know, you incorporate the church of whatever and then someone can actually marry you instead of just sort of pretending to marry you in front of people. This is a huge win for Andy Reed. Like this is a part of, this is now... You think he likes this more than one of his Super Bowl trophies?

Yeah, probably. I mean, he has like probably one of them, not all of them. I think it's the second line. Like, okay, Andy Reid, before the Chiefs were winning Super Bowls, well-deserved reputation as someone who, you know, before he won it all, still had done just incredible schematic work as an offensive football mind and had really been a big part of incorporating the college game into the NFL and really creating like modern NFL offenses. Also, he's the,

the coach of the, you know, Chief's dynasty with Mahomes, all of that. Also, he kind of introduced Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. And like, I don't know.

I think it's at least the second line of, of his resume. Really? Yeah. Because that's, that makes him like congressional medal of honor,

you know, presidential big time. I'm fine with that. Let's get Big Reds some recognition for this in this area. I just, I've been a little bit, uh,

skeptical of that story, of his centrality in the, in the story of them. But, you know, and she, I think gave him some credit on the podcast without saying, yeah, yeah, it's because of Andy. It sounded like her cousins. Because of Andy. But it seemed like it was because of a lot of people. Yeah. Well, they can all share in it.

So let's step back for a second because a lot of this is just some page-stakes. shit that I know we're going to see, you know, Tree or somebody's going to deliver some details about how this all happened to People magazine in T-minus 24 hours. My countdown clock is clicking for that. And all will become, you know, clear. Does this in any way, shape, or form affect, like, how does this affect Taylor the musician, the art? Is there any part of this that, you know, it changes the journey in a good way. I mean, that's the thing that is most interesting to me about just the story of her life because so much of her life has been incorporated into her music.

And the energy in particular of her life has driven her music. This is going to be her 12th album. And we've talked about this before. But, like, Cole plays there and Chris Martin's like, people have heard enough from us. We're done. This is an artist who I feel like because of her. her drive, the thing that makes her great that we've talked about for, I don't know, maybe 200 hours

in total on this podcast, but that she's not capable of stopping. And so the only question is going to be is the stuff that she creates? Is she able to keep it relevant and will the audience continue to embrace it with the same fervor and passion? And her being the center of figure in a royal wedding in America is not going to hurt. That's for sure. It won't be televised, right? No, I thought about this. Okay. Because one way, one way to just take the air out of the balloon would be to do that.

Like it literally is a fucking little wedding in a giant cathedral. Yeah. Yeah. I just think too many people will, there'll be too much backlash for that maybe. I don't know. I also just think that the person who, for really good reasons, sometimes transports or inside a broom cart. Right.

Would not be comfortable. I mean, like, what if they sold off the rights for $50 million or $100 million dollars and gave that to charity? Would that be something that might? Yeah, that would be cool. But yet, you're exactly right. I think let them have their moment with their people. Let them do it like a normal.

Yeah, that's what I think she wants. As normal as they can. I think she wants to have the experience of having a wedding. Yeah, absolutely. It's really fun. But I'm just asking, like, So here she is. What she is done with this post is confirmed what we thought from afar

and what seemed to be oozing out of the screen of that YouTube New Heights thing was that like these two people are very much in love. And that she has had a life pivot, her words. And every time she has a life pivot, it goes one of two ways from my perspective. I either get super excited about the art that it's going to create, independent of like just somebody who roots for her to have a great life and be happy. But like, or her a life pivot can also change, you know, the way that you create. And I do think that I think you make a good point that lover was,

um, she was not in a place of sadness. That's for sure. But like she is in a different part of her life where there is a, um, a very long fairy tale storyline that she's been pursuing since she was, I don't know, putting pillowcases on her head as a tiny little girl like pretending she's in a wedding like here it comes

and I do wonder how it will affect her art I have no you know the the immovable object and the unstoppable force of Taylor Swift is going to be her drive

versus her finding peace and satisfaction in her life and how those two things come in contact with each other I will tell you that that you know 10 years ago there were people in her camp who openly said

she may not do this forever and I sort of didn't believe them at the time right and record and release music yeah yeah and go be a public pop star forever and it's so hard to believe them because of the pace with which she has created in the last 10 years but there is this

Hamiltonian why do you write like you're running out of time that she has projected over this last decade of it feels like she's trying to, I mean, it almost feels like she's nesting, you know, and just this unsustainable pace of creation. And maybe that is a superpower that she will carry in through all of her life. But I just am interested to see how those two incredible forces, her drive and now a major life pivot that puts her in a moment of peace unlike any that she's ever been in. Now, she is, you know, I don't think that, I think she is such a creative force that I don't

think there's any one relationship that can change the way that she creates. But I do think, I do think that it is a new era. It is a new chapter for Taylor Swift. And it's one that is even more evolved now than when we saw her, and then whatever we're going to see her in through the prism of the last showgirl. So there are very few artists, let's put it this way, whose 15th album has sustained the quality of the first few. There's also no other artist on the planet who's won four albums of the year. So we're talking about a unicorn here.

But that to me from a music and art creation standpoint is the most fascinating part of, and the reason why we talk about our personal life, because it does impact the art that this amazing artist will create in the future. Yeah. I also, it's been, don't give me wrong when I say this, it has been plenty long, I think, for their relationship to develop into something worthy of this commitment and this love. I do think things ebb and flow, right, in terms of like, they haven't been together for that long. they must still be in such a, like, a honeymoon period that I'm not saying ever ends, really,

but like in a period where she must just wake up every day and be like, I was so excited to see Travis and, like, do Travis things. And I think that has really come through. Like, but then, like, I think at some point you sort of almost like find yourself again. You go like, oh, and then, and then you have a different kind of coexistence. that is maybe even deeper. And like, I don't know, maybe that happens.

And she has a period of getting away from creativity and just focusing on getting to enjoy the stage of her life. But then at some point, she goes, oh, but like, I love to do this. So I want to do some more of it and picks it back up. Like, I do think that for as much as she plans, I think it's unknowable even to her because it's an impulse, right? It's it's catharsis. It's the creative need of a genius. And I think there are people who meet all of those descriptors who like at least as it seems like I observe it in culture with other artists with people who create for a living. Like some people do hang it up and then some people hang it up and pick it back up. And I just, how could you ever know that, I guess, is my feeling. So I think the good news is it just seems. I think the good news is it just seems. like she's doing the things that serve her and the things that make her happy. And I imagine that as much as we have to see where that takes her, like she will have to do that too. I want to just speak to something because there's a couple like internet things that we should talk about if you're up for

it very briefly. And I'm going to be somewhat dismissive of them because I think a lot of it is just sort of like fun whirling speculation. The first is that, you know, there is a photo shoot from Lover that looks a lot like the... Yes, the Cornelia Street. Rose Garden. Yes. I'm going to chalk that up to coincidence. You? I am also going to chalk that up to coincidence.

He doesn't know some songs on Red. He must not have seen the cover, you know, the inside photo shoots for Lover. Yeah. I mean, also like most trees look kind of similar. You know? Here, hold on. Can I give them their literal flowers for a second with this? We have probably never had reason to talk about this before.

But there is a phenomenon that I have to credit Madeline Hill, who along with my buddy Charlotte Welder, hosts the sports gossip pod who loves to cover Taylor and Travis. They do a great job. Madeline also has a substack. And she has been for some time pointing out this phenomenon of the athlete wedding florals, which Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Kevin Love, he got married. Like the list is long and they all do the same thing, which is they all do these like super tightly bunched white flowers where a lot of the greenery is taken away and it's this very,

Dwayne Wade. Like it's, it is every big high profile athlete wedding seems to all do this very similar floral aesthetic. A lot of them, they're either using Mindy Weiss as a planner, or it's sort of derivative of that style. And it's not that it's like, there's nothing wrong with it.

But it is like, it happens every time. And I just can't tell you how happy I was to see some color in there. To see that we'd made an arrangement, we'd created a palette that was very tailor, you know, romantic pastels, but that also just had a little bit of its own, its own palette and its own style and its own design and its own aesthetic. So Lover, look, there's a reason that Lover opened up the ERIS tour beyond just the fact that it was the start of where she hadn't been able to put stuff on stage. It's beautiful. It's those beautiful sunset colors.

So I think coincidence. And I think good for them for the colors. Oh, I didn't expect that. Okay. I got it. Wow. this is a tough moment for everybody who's been dating someone seriously for two years who's under the age of or over the age of 30.

Yeah. In my view. Yeah. It's like, hey, let's get on with this. Are you fucking Joe Alwyn or are you Travis Kelsey? Who are you? I mean, how many, in how many relationships is one person, you know, bringing the phone over this afternoon and saying to the other like, oh, babe, like, that's a.

So cute. I wonder if they talked about it before. Do you think that we'll ever do something like, do you think just hypothetically, you know, if we were to ever and then that's either starting a beautiful moment or it's starting a big fight, that has to be happening like everywhere right now. It's actually a secretly tough night and tough week, honestly, for for the men without conviction, I would say. Any partner without conviction is going to have a tough week, I suspect. We just got to say it because it's everywhere on the internet, and it's nobody's fucking business.

But there is all this, like, there's a lot of pre-knup jokes. And the answer is almost definitively that they will have some sort of real clarity around it. They each have their own set of finances, and they certainly have had a conversation about how they handle these things, which I think is part of what makes them work, because they clearly, you know, there's whatever. They've worked it out in two years. They each will have their own sets of finances

and there'll be some stuff that's their own and some stuff that's theirs together and they'll have a way of splitting it up and yes, there will be those conversations and it will not be contentious or difficult, I'm sure. Because this is not Elizabeth Taylor marrying, you know, marrying the janitor. Yeah, but also nobody in the history of marriage

or at least in the history of like modern marriage, as we know it now in this country, no one gets married without documentation and a spelling out of how their assets are handled in the case of divorce. If you don't have a pre-up, it is the state law in which you live. But there is still a piece of paper that says, if this thing goes south, what happens? So like to be, yeah, no, totally. Like, they're going to do what they're going to do. I think that's enough on it. Fine.

Yeah. Yeah. But like, yeah. Does it exist? Sure. Yes. But it's also not a thing where it's like there's going to be 50 lawyers with their guns pointed at Travis Kelsey.

Like this is a thing that you can do in a cooperative way, whether you are two very wealthy people or too, you know, normally financially endowed people. It's also like, like, yeah, no. And they can do whatever they want. And if that is, if that is. if that is that she wants that she wants everything that they earn from the point that they're married going forward to be jointly there is great if she wants to keep everything separate in perpetuity great they're both fine she ain't given up she ain't given up ownership of her master's

no never you're i mean do you oh now that's a conspiracy corner do you think that she made sure to have that all wrapped up and done so that it didn't become a like not that it would become a complicated thing because he wouldn't be on board. But like, do you think she was like, okay, it's not communal property? Clear that up. We don't have a weird, funny legal situation. This matters a lot to me. Now, Travis, let's get it. No, no, no. They've worked it out. These things work best when everybody has their own stuff. They can do their own things with what they have. You've got some joint stuff that goes towards your joint activities and your kids. and, you know, one of the things that is amazing about Travis Kelsey in my mind,

in the way that he has, I mean, God, boy, shoot your shot. That is the lesson. What a job by this guy. That's really beautiful. What a job by this guy. It's wonderful. But like, he has figured out how to handle it. And it's not an easy position for some men to be in.

And Travis Kelsey has handled it with grace and admiration and support and all the things that, again, I said this in the last couple weeks. Like, the dude in some ways has helped to evolve the definition of masculinity in my view. What real support is like and what being a partner is like and how to be insanely confident and great at what you do, but also insanely supportive and admiring. You know, in the way that that GQ article said that I know a lot of people laughed at because the pictures were ridiculous. Well, and also because he said the football bounce is funny because it's a weird shape. That is true.

No, yes, that's true. No, that's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. Just like his definition of esoteric, I think, was actually correct. But anyway, it was the writer's description of the way that he just sort of held her up, not in a possessive way, not in a secretly jealous way, but just in like that good old fashion like Midwestern humility where he wouldn't even give himself those accolades. I think, I think it just, it worked. And we have kept up on purpose the episode that has a little

Easter egg at the end from, whose album were we doing? Do you even remember? I have no idea. I don't remember at all. Maybe it was a one direction. Maybe it was, but it was. No, it was later than that. Yeah, but it was from, I guess, July or August of 2023, where when we, when this news first broke, a conversation that producer Kaya recorded where we talked about it. And neither of us had remotely any belief that this thing was going to work. You said something about Elon Musk. We've kept it up there because, you know, listen, we were wrong. One of many, many times when we've been wrong about the situation,

I'm thrilled for her. It does feel very fairy tale-ish. But more so than that, when I think about like, the big celebrity weddings of my lifetime, these are two people who seem to be so committed to the principle of normal and who are doing an incredible job of embracing their public figure and bringing energy to it and celebrating it and not shying away from it. But again, protecting that space for the two of them.

So I'm thrilled. And what I really want out of it is more awesome art, Nora. Okay. Nathan. I've given my prediction. I'm not going to ask you to name the designer of the dress unless you want to. But where do you think this happens? Holy wow. I have no idea.

I'll tell you what. I think it's going to happen in a very private secluded place, literally like topographical barriers. Well, okay. So that's part of my Como prediction. one just because like there are a lot of Yahoo's who could get to Rhode Island who are not getting to Italy. But also, Yellowstone Club, got to be on the list. It could be, I just, I don't think you want to get married at Yellowstone Club. That to me feels not enough for Taylor and Travis.

Yellowstone Club is awesome, and it's amazing. But like, I agree with you. That's why it's not my pick. But if you're talking about places that are topographically difficult and very much closed off to most people, it's a short list. And I think you put that on the list. What about the Christmas tree farm? Oh, that would be so cute. Didn't they sell that?

Didn't matter? They got money. It's rentable. Yeah. I'm not sure she can get married in Pennsylvania, unfortunately. I think it's a little too, like, I don't think the Eastern seaboard. outside is ideal. There's too much

population concentration. It's too easy for people to come hang out. The problem with these two people is they have too many friends, Nora. I know. Like Travis has got a lot of childhood friends. He's got all his people in Kansas City,

like the charities that he works with. He's got his giant family. I mean, God, just getting his brother's family and all the kids in the door for crying out loud. I know. I guess those are going to, like, It's crazy. No, I bet they'll have a big wedding.

Yeah. I bet they'll have a big wedding. That affects the logistics of it. Yeah. Because you got to get the more people that you have to get in. It's just a mess. Anyway, Godspeed Taylor and Travis. Please don't let the wedding get in the way of the marriage.

Yeah, that. Cool. I say that to you too, Nora. I love planning my wedding. I hope Taylor. I'm sure you do. I wonder when it will happen. Anyway. Where can I bet on who gets married first? You or Taylor and Travis?

What do you think? I think it's me because I think it's hard to plan a wedding for that many people in as little time as she would have at this point. Am I invited to your wedding? Yes. Maybe. Yeah, why did you think I asked you for your address like a week ago? Oh, I thought you were going to send me another book. No. Oh, I'm so happy. I'm one for two on the weddings I really care about next summer. Let's see. But I think it's me. I think it'll be me. But I don't know. Maybe. We'll see. We'll find out. It's a big day. I love it when this woman breaks the internet. I also just six weeks ago or whatever, earlier in the summer, Trump was like, she's not hot anymore. Yeah, she's super hot. A couple weeks ago, he was like, oh, you know,

she's where he's shitting. Today they asked him after the cabinet meeting. and he said she's a good person. He just, he capitulated. He knows. He seems like he knows. He's like, that line was getting me fucking nowhere. He seems like a good guy.

She's a terrific person. I wish him a lot of luck. She's the only one who's been able to get that guy to just shut the fuck up. Well, cheers to them. Very exciting. What a day, Nathan.

This has been every single album. I'm Nora Prince-Iotti. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Olivia Cree for producing this episode. And we'll talk to you soon. Bye.