Taylor Swift Is Engaged
00:00If you had to pick just one album to define the 21st century so far, what would it be?I'm Cole Kishna from Dissect.And I'm Charles Holmes from The Midnight Boys.And on Tuesday, July 29th, Cole and I are launching season four of Last Song Standing.But this year, we're mixing things up.Instead of searching for an artist's greatest song, we're asking an even bigger question.What is the greatest album of the 21st century so far?Listen to Last Song Standing on the Dissect podcast feed or the Dissect YouTube channel starting Tuesday, July 29th.
00:29Welcome to every single album.I'm Nora Prenziati and I am joined, as always, by Nathan Hubbard for an episode that is not technically an emergency pod.We are recording at our regular Tuesday afternoon recording slot.And yet this has the energy, the frenetic energy, the chaotic energy, the excited energy of an emergency pod, I think.Because Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey announced via joint Instagram post.mere hours ago that they are to be wed.Congratulations to the happy couple.Nathan, I'm so glad you're here on this joyous occasion.
01:23Do we do like a collective scream?I mean, the videos coming out from like Gracie Abrams concert lines.People are freaking the fuck out about this.And with love, get a grip.But we're freaking the fuck out in our own way, I think.But I will not be doing a collective scream in part of.part because some people listen to this on on headphones. And I don't think that that's very nice to those listeners.So, Nora, you know, there's all these videos that are rolling in like, you know, news anchors finding out
01:53about it and then going live with it. There is, though, this collective, like, certainly I thinkproductivity in the United States dropped by about 85% for about two hours this afternoon.Mine included. I am so lucky this is my job. Yeah. Well, I understand.I am thrilled for her.I am happy for them.I think it's great.All of it.Triple thumbs up.
02:23Can we just start,like,can you just explain from,in particular,what seems to be the female fan perspective,why this is not,I mean,of course,
02:34we love to celebratesomebody's happiness.Like,this is definitely the royal wedding.Is it just those vibes?Or is there also some,like relief sigh after watching this woman go through the torture that made her the poet.Finding somebody who jumps in and does pretty much from day one, everything right.
03:00And we get our love story.Like is there some relief or is this just genuine projection of joy and satisfaction in a moment in time in whichsummer's winding down. The world is weird. People need something other than, you know,drugs and alcohol to escape the hell that is their daily lives. Just tell me what the feeling isthat we're, that shut down the internet today. Oh, yeah. I think it's some of all of that. I mean,I do think that there is, there's such a, there's such a fairy tale element to it. Right. Like,I've been thinking a lot about how there's a trend.on the upcoming life of a show girl called Actually Romantic.
03:46And if I had to guess, I don't know.But if I had to guess, that feels like it must be a reflection of something that she talkedabout on New Heights.The sort of over the top, Travis' friendship bracelet and a dream initial courtship of heris in line with these ridiculous grand gestures that don't seem like they're out of reallife that she has been writing about in songs throughout her entire career. And so, yes, I do think thatthe- It's kind of what she said on the pod, right? Like the say-anything moment from the CameronCrow movie where John Cusack's holding the boom box playing in your eyes, just like, please date me.
04:25And she got it. Totally. Well, and it's like, and it's so, he has the big giant flower archand it's beautiful. And it just, they seem so in love. Like, weddings.are fun. Love is fun. Like, that's some of it too, right? It's just like happiness makes other peoplehappy. But I do think there is something about like having, you know, I'm choosing my wordscarefully here because I think something that you and I have talked about a few times is, is the fallacyof the trope that, you know, she can only write songs when she's sad or hurt or vindictive insome way. And I don't think that's true at all. I think she can write from a joyful place.Well, she's, that's what we're going to get on October 3rd.
05:09But people who have been fans for a long time have certainly like, to some degree,through the music, been along for some of the ups and down.So there's a, there's, you know, I think there are ways to do it that are a little tooparisocial, but I also think that there is some satisfaction and in the ultimate happinessof that.And I think, you know, I found it interesting that the, that the caption on the post.It was so great.your English teacher and your and your gym teacher are getting married,
05:39like acknowledges the fan as a part of the relationship almost,which you got to hand it to her.Like that is a very generous thing to do to your audience,to not keep that for yourself,to basically say like,you guys are part and parcel to this.And I have the relationship with you where I am like the English teacherand I'm always, you know, using this flowery language
06:07and illuminating all these specific things of life.And then here's Travis and Travis is the gym teacher.And he has that connection with people too.Like I found that very notable that the you was addressed in the caption of the post.I also found it pretty notable that there was a post in the first place.Like, where are you on the fact that, you know, we can talk about the timing of everything,but at least in some degree of short order after this happened,they told everybody.
06:38This wasn't something that we found out after the fact,oh, you know, Taylor and Travis got married in a small ceremonylast month with their friends and family.This is photos to the grid, joint post at Taylor Swift,at Killa Trab, still his handle.And they really like did it up big out in the open.What did you think of that?Let's start with the complete insanity that is running three countdown clocks that make everyone think something massive is coming.
07:13And then surprise, it's just another vinyl.And literally the next day, blammo, you know, pow, here we are in like a fucking rainforest cafe.And I've got the rock of Gibraltar on my finger.If you like photos, you know, how you like them apples.So she's just insane.It's so great.I think I'm pretty sureTree Paine was consulted on this, Nora,
07:39and I suspect that Tree Paine...I mean, think about what had to have...First of all, who is the photographer?Because it looks a little bitlike that middle school photographer,like where it's a little blurryin the corners.Like, that's an effect.
07:51Like, I can't believethat the fuck-ass yellow filterwas not put on these photos.Oh, that kind of makes me sad.But who was the photographer?It would have been so funny.It would have been terrific.But maybe there's a, you know, maybe there's a different edition, a different version of it that'll come out just like the vinals.
08:10But like, think about how many people would have had to have stayed under NDA just to make that happen.Let's talk that through a little bit.We don't know.Because I have, I am purely speculating here.But I have to imagine, I think this, my best guess for where this happened was in his backyard in Kansas City.because I don't think there's anywhere else where he could do it.Like, I imagine she coordinates basically all of their travel because she has her whole systemand it's easier for him to just hop on board.
08:42And I think that's been the case from the get-go.I don't think that there's really a way for him to, like, get her to a location or be ather house and have any amount of logistics that don't either raise.flags for security people whose responsibility is to her and not him and therefore, like,would have to get involved because of their jobs, I assume, or just in ways that she would findout herself. So I think it has to happen, like at his home, his turf, he can set it up the waythat he wants. He can consult with Tree. You know, Tree can, Tree can be making the color paletteand Tree can be like floating ring design ideas. Or maybe it was Abigail. Maybe everybody tag teamed.
09:28don't know. But that's my best guess is I think this happened in Kansas City in his new backyard.And can I go a little tinfoil hat here? Please. Or not even, but this is just one thing and this,I know a lot of people caught this is if you look at the photos, Taylor Swift, who is known forfrequently rocking a colorful manicure, appears to have either a very simple nude nail,but maybe no nail, maybe no manicure.Which first of all, begs the question, was this a surprise?Was she genuinely surprised?Like, didn't know it was coming, didn't have someone be like, hey, well, you know,
10:10maybe you want to get him done, sis.But also, that same nail seems to be what was on her hands a couple weeks ago when she didthe New Heights podcast.when she holds up the album cover,you can see on her hands,like there's either not nail polishor it's really, really light.And it doesn't really look like
10:33just like one layer of gloss.It really looks the most likeit's either a nude or she doesn't have anything.And that has at least made me wonder,one, the surprise thing, but two,did this take place kind of right around the pod?And if so, was it before?or after? Could they possibly have already been engaged when they did that pot? And do we need to
10:57revisit every single Easter egg and stop thinking about the Super Bowl and start thinking about whetheror not they were teasing this? Okay. So now you're now you're off the cliff. This is where I like you.You're back to be in looping Nora. That's fine. Here's what I'm going to say to you. There is no chance thatTaylor Swift with a straight face could have looked in the camera and said this pod gave me a boyfriendif she was engaged. But the pod did give her a boyfriend. There's no way. He might not havethan her boyfriend anymore.It depends on what the meaning of the word is, is he had a game in Kansas City, or he had a gameFriday night.
11:32They were off until Tuesday.On Sunday night, the Chiefs documentary had its premiere in Kansas City.Travis was there with a little bit of a wry grin on his face.He got out of the car, he put his jacket on.I'm just saying they were off until Tuesday.My own bet is this happened yet.Monday.Because I just don't think you can sit on this information for very long,
11:59especially not when it's done in a rainforest cafe with a middle high school,middle school photographer taking the pictures.Like there's no way they could have sat on this for very long.Plus, if she's going to sport that thing around, yeah, they are nice.They are nice.Listen, it's beautiful, but you're exactly right.Like, this had to be somewhere that just was full lockdown.Otherwise, that thing leaks out in its own way.
12:27I think if he did it at home. I mean, we knew about the album.Yeah, but the album, think about how many people have to be involved in the album.And particularly once you involve, as we've talked about vinyl and all the retailers and all the packaging and all of that.Travis could have.Somebody made this ring.Okay.And but that person clearly, first of all, had a huge.And the jeweler has talked, by the way.
12:47The jeweler has in the last hour or so, like, a.piece has gone up where they're talking about the stone and the design process and it's eightcarrots F color, S-I-1, clarity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.By the way, I do think the ring is really, really her.I think he did a good job.It looked like a Super Bowl ring in the first picture.I was like, what did he get her?Gynormous.
13:14It's El-Higante for short.But I do feel like I think a chunkier gold band, the antique cushion cut, that sort of vintage look is very tailor.I can't quite see in the photos whatever's going on with.It seems like there's little side stones, but there may be like set in a bezel.It feels very like it does have that vintagey, a little bit art deco vibe to it.And to me, that really tracks with her.Last Great American Dynasty or Marjorie or somewhere in between is the vibe.People are saying that maybe there's a T on the side, so that maybe there's a T on both sides,
13:52which would be a cute little thing and consistent with the fact that they are just all in on the TNT.Well, and that's really like what they do is Super Bowl rings.It's always like the engravings on the sides and the letters and all of that.Right.But okay, so the jeweler knows.But the jeweler doesn't necessarily know the timing.But also the jeweler has signed an NDA that would.make a CIA agent weep, presumably.
14:15Well, the jeweler's trying to make a million dollars too.And the jeweler is also, you know, the publicity and everything.Like the jeweler has so many incentives to not mess this up.Then who do you need?You need a florist.I imagine you probably also get the florist under some legal lock and key.You also don't have to tell the florist exactly what's happening.Now, I don't think you want a random florist running around Missouri being like,
14:41I went to Travis's yesterday and I set up a giant flower arch.I don't think that would be ideal.And a swing. A swing. A bench. Yeah.But then beyond that, what do you need? You need whoever's taking the photos. That could be someonewho's in the circle. And then I think you need tree pain. And that's basically it.Yeah. Well, come on. You also need her dad.Well, sure. But like, that conversation doesn't need to happen a week ago. That conversation doesn'tneed to be. I don't know. This is just not something that could be very well kept. She missed
15:15Selena Gomez's bachelorette party for whatever happened this weekend. The only explanation for meas to why she wouldn't have shown up at that is because he talked her into something to the effect of,hey, I need to hear this weekend for this or can you stay this weekend? Like, I don't know, whatever he saidwas going to happen. It feels like it was Saturday or Monday. That wouldn't. That wouldn't.shock me either.Like she should have been at Selena's thing.Yeah, although I was reading something that said that maybeit wasn't even a bachelorette. She just like went to
15:46Cabo with a bunch of friends. I don't know.They all got off the plane wearing sweatsuitsthat said, that pick I didn't see. Okay,confirmed then. I don't know. Yeah.Look, the thingthat I just keep like, how did this happen?Did she walk into thebackyard and saw it and there's
16:02some guy like hiding on the side witha camera? That girl can find a camerain a stadium of 90,000 people.she will look right at your ass when she feels that camera on her.So how did, like, at some point, she must have known, right?This wasn't a surprise.Couldn't have been that big a surprise.I do find it really hard to believe that what if I told you none of it was accidental,
16:27didn't know.I also think it's like really hard to not at least kind of know,even if you don't know when.Right.two committed adult partners typically have a hard time not involving each other in thingslike huge life decisions like do you think there's any chance that Travis does this withoutbeing 100% sure that he's getting a yes he's getting an unequivocal I love you you know to themoon and back uh I'm not saying uh hey by the way yeah I want to do that
17:07but like there's a conversation about finances that we need to like anything like thatthat's all completely put away.This guy shot, he shot his shot on a podcast.Like he is going to just take his swing.And that said, you know, these weirdly planted stories in People magazine over the summerthat were like Travis and Taylor are taking their relationship to the next level.Like whoever that is who's feeding that in,there's been a lot of chatter because, of course, their lives are aligned.
17:40And listen, for me, like, having watched this woman come out of the I wouldn't marry me eitherphase of midnight, you know, being in a relationship for six years in which it didn't happen,and she clearly wanted it based on some of the writing that came out of that,at least wanted marriage for herself, if not in that moment, understanding, right?two years fellas that's the right time like at two years especially when you're with the most famousperson on the planet and by the way we're not spring chickens exactly nora like we're 36 here in a fewmonths like it's it's you're not old but like hey let's if we're going to move these things alongyou know uh the bioclots and all these things like let's go and by the way parents aren't getting
18:32any younger like let's do it so i i feel like now was definitely the time that's whyI just didn't receive this informationthe way that the peoplein the Gracie Abramsconcert lines and the internet did.I mean, I get that it's like a moment to celebrate,but like,odds were off the board.
18:50They were getting engaged this year.This is Travis's last year of football.They're going to go figure out their lifeand get married next summer, right?I mean, that was the plan six months ago,I think, for people paying attention.I'm not at all surprised that it happened.I am a little surprised in the world.
19:07way that it happened. Like, not in the way that it seems like the proposal happened. I'm just surprisedthat they posted. I'm surprised that it is so, and maybe I shouldn't be because that is how they've beenthroughout this entire thing. Ripped a Band-Aid off. Control the message. I just would have anticipatedlike a more keeping it to themselves sort of thing. But what do you, do you think that that meansthat it's going to be like that throughout the course of them planning a wedding and havinga wedding? Like, are we going to, we can't possibly know where Taylor Swift's wedding is going to bebefore it happens? Because I can't imagine that she would know.Find that acceptable from a privacy and security perspective. I don't know about that.
19:53I mean, first of all, the reason they had to post, Taylor always controls the message.But have you seen that fucking ring? Yeah. No, she wants to wear it around.If you got that ring, listen, if Travis gave me that ring, I'd wear that ring around. I mean, forcrying out loud. Like, there's no way that she can go out now anywhere. She's going to walk through,she's going to walk through FBOs at private airport. She's going to, what, people are going to see her.And if she wants to, you know, wear the thing and celebrate and do the thing that you do as a newlyengaged human, like she has to get the word out there. So that, that to me, I think is why theyposted because they like to control the message. I'm obsessed with doing that because you want to
20:33wear the ring in public. I find that incredibly relatable. There you go.there has not been a celebrity weddingwhere people haven't ultimately knownwhere it was happening.And I'm thinking aboutevery single massive one that we've had,the only alternative is for her to elope.And I think that she probably wants the fairy tale.
20:55So we're going to ultimately know.And it's going to have the same level of security.They're going to pick a spot that allows for that level of security.And whether that's somebody's private home,whether that is, you know, her own place.I mean, God, I don't think it can be Rhode Islandbecause it seems like everybody is,I mean, that would be a fucking shit show.
21:14But like, they'll figure it out.And they'll either do it really bigbecause she and they deserve itor they'll do it as small as it could possibly be.It just doesn't feel, you know,one of the remarkable things I thought about that podcast,just when we finally got to see themsort of communicating normally,
21:34is that they're just trying to have a normal relationship.And they're actually committed to that and that that is part of the important overlap of their Venn diagram circles.Is they're both committed to that normalcy in a world that doesn't look at them as normal human beings.And they sort of found each other and an ability to be themselves.So I expect that they will try to protect their right to be normal human beings in the circus.And, you know, she should have a wedding, man.She should have a wedding.She shouldn't have to elope because, you know,
22:06the 16 gaylers are going to protest in the corner or like, you know, some some weirdos,some weirdo dudes are going to come out of the woods.You know, I just think they're going to figure out.Can I call my shot here?Please.Lake Como wearing Vera Wing, like every good millennial fantasy.Does this change the way you think about her playing the Super Bowl?What, like the Chiefs make the Super Bowl?
22:36half time they get married on the 50?I mean, she just comes down from the rafters in the dress.It's kind of like Gaga, but there's more tool.Yeah.Yeah.She comes out of the stands out of the rafters, out of the bleachers, whatever.But I don't think there's almost nothing that the NFL wouldn't let Taylor Swift doas evidenced today by the fact that Adam Schaefter sent a push note of
23:06via ESPN about this.Yeah.Yeah, it's a little,listen, it's a big deal.Let's allow the internet to break.I'll tell you why it changes the way that I think about it,because I think it confirms what we suspected,which is that she is getting into her life.
23:22And don't forget that this album that's coming upthat I think is going to be a peek into the joythat she was feeling in the early stages of this relationship,at least one year in.And I can't, you know,I can't emphasize enough that I agree.with you that she is capable of not writing just sad breakup songs, but we haven't had an albumwhere the central tenant was joy. And that's what makes me so excited about life and showgirl.
23:47You don't think that was true of Lover. But I mean, Lover had sad, poignant songs, but I think that wasfrom a pretty thematically joyful. Yeah. I, I, I, this is really neither here nor there.I think it was, but I don't think it. Racking my brain. No, no, no, no, but I just, I thinkyou're right, but I think there was enoughin there thatwas tumultuous, andit wasn't the central tenet and themeof the album in the way that
24:13her hurt wasa center, sort ofthe center of reputation forme anyway. Like there have been thingsthat, or even tortured poets,like her torture wasthe central theme of that.So I just
24:30don't think she has ever been in thisplace, and thereis something about the human exclamation point that is going to fuel.Uncomplicatedness of it because now I'm interrogating my own question.I do think lover mostly came from a joyful place, but it was a joy.Think about, you know, I don't want to lose you, hope it never ends.There is an inherent anxiety to that, even though it is beautiful and special.this is like there's something very solid about it.
25:06She posted so high school as the song on the post.Come on.Like this is going to be an album.You know how to ball.And they're going to be overt.Yes. They're going to be overt.They're going to be direct, right?You know what you wanted.
25:26And boy, you got her.That's what this is about.Her previous relationship was one that was surreptitious and hiddenand in the shadows by design.this one and the energy that she pulls from it is celebrating her open publicness but creating a spacewhere they can just be normal but still embrace who they are, which are these massive public figuresand not have to like run away from that. So look, I think I think the album is going to be great.I just think it confirms that she has a plan because that album was recorded a year ago.
26:04and she has been pursuing this plan, you know, letting her feet heal, letting her body heal, being at rest, going to Yellowstone Club, going on secret vacations.Like, that's what she's been doing.And I think they've pretty well telegraphed that this is probably Travis's last year.And I think that part of her thinking was, hey, if we get through this summer and everything is good, then yeah, we're going to get married and we're going to start our lives from here.So I say all that because she ain't touring in summer 2020.folks. She's not going on tour. And so that tells me that if she's got that fucking bug thatpushed her up on stage at tight end university with Chase Rice's guitar, maybe she does one lasthurrah here for a little while where she goes out on TV. It's just that this thing takes so much
26:55rehearsal time, so much planning, so much effort. It is absolutely her nature. But I just wonder ifI still, listen, I think it makes it more likely that she's going to do the Super Bowl is my take.I still in my heart of hearts think she has to be sitting back going like, is that how I want tospend my fall? Is that how I really want to do it? Am I crazy also for, so first of all, what you just saidis compelling to me. I am in agreement that I still don't think that she's going to do it. But the idea that would,the idea that that would give her a chance to put this thing on stage and on one of the only stages in the worldthat would kind of come even close to matching the type of cultural saturation of something like the heiastor.Like there are just almost no things like that and the Super Bowl is one of them.
27:45And she's just crazy enough to do that, right?I mean, she's so maniacic, like she's just so driven that I can't understand why she's,she would do that while planning a wedding.But like, it is a very Taylor Swift thing to do.And I'm probably crazy for thinking that the NFL or Rock Nation would have trepidation about it.There's part of me that thinks it would make sense if they did.But also, I'm just thinking about how today went.And again, the Adam Schefter push notification of it all.
28:16They probably go, who cares if the other team is mad?It's Taylor Swift.we roll out the red carpet.Okay.I'm with you that I still am a no,but I'm compelled by that argument.I'm compelled by that logic,much more so than anything
28:33that has to do with bread.Yeah.Can I just put you on the record on something?I think you answered this question.Were you surprised that this announcement came now?The honest truth, Nathan, is I don't,this is not what I think about.For as much as I think about Taylor's
28:51Swift. I'm sitting here trying to think of the last time that I thought to myself, when are they goingto get engaged? And it's honestly been a long time. Like it's, it's just not where my head goes with her.It goes to, is it Max Martin or is it Jack? When is the album? Is she going to tour? You know,how many vinals is an okay number of vinyl? Like, those are the things that compel my brain just like a littlebit more. And so I don't know that I had, I had the sensation of all of a sudden my phone is blowing upand oh my God, look at the ring, look at all this stuff. When did this happen? Where did this happen?Like, blah, blah, blah, blah. I can't place myself within a, I thought it would be sooner or I thoughtit would be later. Like, this makes as much sense as anything else to me. Yeah. I just think about her
29:41is such a planner and as a person who thinks about her life in terms of eras and chapters,as a person who has cycles, right? And just from a logistical standpoint, it felt like,I mean, what's he going to do? Propose in between practice like before flying to the Raiders gamein October now, like it's now or, you know, it's after the season. And so I was,was actually a little surprised that it hadn't already happened during their sort of fun time thissummer. Since you don't think about it, Nora, I'm going to give you 10 seconds to think about thisand then you have to answer. She has five bridesmaids. Who are they? Go. Okay. Abigail,Selena. Well, I think her brother would be in her wedding party if that's okay. Ashley Little
30:41Bob, Kara Delavine. Oh, God.Heim.Kylie Kelsey?Oh, interesting.I guess I'm...So then maybe her brother would be in Travis's party and Kylie would be in hers.But also, Nathan, what about Heim?It's going to be hard.
31:02Maybe they're the wedding band.Well, maybe she has eight bridesmaids.God.Blake's not in there, right?No, no.I think that ship is pretty well sailed.Carly Claus, not in there.I think that ship indeed also pretty well.
31:14sailed. Could you imagine?Lana Del Rey? She was in the Super Bowl suite. Oh, yeah. Lana,Lana, Lona possibility. I mean, who's a fit? Okay.Sabrina.Sabrina, as much as they seem close, I don't feel like we see them interacting as much on purelysocial terms. Like, they hung out so much when they were on tour together, but I feel like,I guess that's not where I would go first. I mean, what about, you. You,and I both of the opinion that like all is well and good between Jack and Taylor, does Jack have a
31:49role? Does Jack, like, we're assuming Jason Kelsey, Jason Kelsey best man. Kylie could be Taylor's or like.Are you sure about that? Well, what? Pat Mahomes to me seems like the front of them. Oh, really? I think,no. Are you sure? You don't think that his brother is going to be his best man? I would be shocked.Well, here's the thing. When you have multiple brothers in the mix, I guess he just has his brother, but he's gotTaylor's brother, maybe you go, hey, I'm going to have my best friend. I don't know. I'd beinterested to hear what the audience thinks of this. Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't even consideredfor a second that Travis's best man would be anyone but Jason. Pat is probably in his,maybe Pat is one of his groomsman and Ross Travis. What about the guy who traveled? Yeah,
32:37Ross Travis. It's still so funny that his name is Ross Travis.Yeah.Yeah. And then maybe like some other members of the entourage.And then I don't know. I think like there's like.Yeah. His business buddies. I mean, Travis has boys from high,from like elementary school that he still hangs out with.Well, they could have really big wedding parties. They could have a really big wedding party.Yeah. Or if they have so many people, they could say.
33:10you know, we're going to havefamily onlyKylie AustinJasonparents and then everybody elseyou know maybe you get a special seator something but you're here todo you think Andy Reid
33:26officiates it? Yeah so that's a realI mean ifPat Mahomes's best manI think Jason officiates itotherwise I do kind of think Andy Reidofficiates the weddingand like does that mean that AndyReed is going to have to get like fake Italian ordained or whatever it is.
33:44Well, I mean, Lucy Dacus is doing it on stage right now.Why not?There's all these things where like in certain in certain states, like you, you know,you incorporate the church of whatever and then someone can actually marry youinstead of just sort of pretending to marry you in front of people.This is a huge win for Andy Reed.Like this is a part of, this is now...You think he likes this more than one of his Super Bowl trophies?
34:09Yeah, probably.I mean, he has like probably one of them, not all of them.I think it's the second line.Like, okay, Andy Reid, before the Chiefs were winning Super Bowls,well-deserved reputation as someone who, you know, before he won it all, still had donejust incredible schematic work as an offensive football mind and had really been a big partof incorporating the college game into the NFL and really creating like modern NFL offenses.Also, he's the,
34:40the coach of the, you know,Chief's dynasty with Mahomes,all of that.Also,he kind of introducedTaylor Swift and Travis Kelsey.And like,I don't know.
34:50I think it's at leastthe second line of,of his resume.Really?Yeah.Because that's,that makes him likecongressional medal of honor,
35:01you know,presidential big time.I'm fine with that.Let's get Big Redssome recognition for this in this area.I just,I've been a little bit,uh,
35:10skeptical of that story, of his centrality in the, in the story of them.But, you know, and she, I think gave him some credit on the podcast without saying, yeah, yeah,it's because of Andy.It sounded like her cousins.Because of Andy.But it seemed like it was because of a lot of people.Yeah.Well, they can all share in it.
35:36So let's step back for a second because a lot of this is just some page-stakes.shit that I know we're going to see, you know, Tree or somebody's going to deliver some detailsabout how this all happened to People magazine in T-minus 24 hours. My countdown clock isclicking for that. And all will become, you know, clear. Does this in any way, shape, or formaffect, like, how does this affect Taylor the musician, the art? Is there any part of thisthat, you know, it changes the journey in a good way.I mean, that's the thing that is most interesting to me about just the story of her lifebecause so much of her life has been incorporated into her music.
36:18And the energy in particular of her life has driven her music.This is going to be her 12th album.And we've talked about this before.But, like, Cole plays there and Chris Martin's like,people have heard enough from us.We're done.This is an artist who I feel like because of her.her drive, the thing that makes her great that we've talked about for, I don't know, maybe 200 hours
36:41in total on this podcast, but that she's not capable of stopping. And so the only question is goingto be is the stuff that she creates? Is she able to keep it relevant and will the audiencecontinue to embrace it with the same fervor and passion? And her being the center of figurein a royal wedding in America is not going to hurt. That's for sure.It won't be televised, right?No, I thought about this.Okay.Because one way, one way to just take the air out of the balloon would be to do that.
37:16Like it literally is a fucking little wedding in a giant cathedral.Yeah.Yeah.I just think too many people will, there'll be too much backlash for that maybe.I don't know.I also just think that the person who, for really good reasons, sometimes transports orinside a broom cart.Right.
37:38Would not be comfortable.I mean, like, what if they sold off the rights for $50 million or $100 milliondollars and gave that to charity?Would that be something that might?Yeah, that would be cool.But yet, you're exactly right.I think let them have their moment with their people.Let them do it like a normal.
37:54Yeah, that's what I think she wants.As normal as they can.I think she wants to have the experience of having a wedding.Yeah, absolutely.It's really fun.But I'm just asking, like,So here she is.What she is done with this post is confirmed what we thought from afar
38:11and what seemed to be oozing out of the screen of that YouTube New Heights thingwas that like these two people are very much in love.And that she has had a life pivot, her words.And every time she has a life pivot, it goes one of two ways from my perspective.I either get super excited about the art that it's going to create,independent of like just somebody who roots for her to have a great life and be happy.But like, or her a life pivot can also change, you know, the way that you create.And I do think that I think you make a good point that lover was,
38:47um, she was not in a place of sadness.That's for sure.But like she is in a different part of her life where there is a,um, a very long fairy tale storyline that she's been pursuing since she was, I don't know,putting pillowcases on her headas a tiny little girllike pretending she's in a weddinglike here it comes
39:08and I do wonderhow it will affect her artI have noyou knowthe the immovableobject and the unstoppableforce of Taylor Swiftis going to be her drive
39:21versus her finding peaceand satisfaction in her lifeand how those two thingscome in contact with each otherI will tell you thatthat you know 10 years agothere were people in her campwho openly said
39:36she may not do this foreverand I sort of didn't believe them at the timeright and record and release musicyeah yeah and go be a public pop star foreverand it's so hard to believe thembecause of the pace with which she has createdin the last 10 yearsbut there is this
39:57Hamiltonianwhy do you write like you're running out of timethat she has projected over this last decade of it feels like she's trying to,I mean, it almost feels like she's nesting, you know, and just this unsustainable pace ofcreation. And maybe that is a superpower that she will carry in through all of her life.But I just am interested to see how those two incredible forces, her drive and now a major lifepivot that puts her in a moment of peace unlike any that she's ever been in.Now, she is, you know, I don't think that, I think she is such a creative force that I don't
40:39think there's any one relationship that can change the way that she creates.But I do think, I do think that it is a new era.It is a new chapter for Taylor Swift.And it's one that is even more evolved now than when we saw her, and then whatever we'regoing to see her in through the prism of the last showgirl.So there are very few artists, let's put it this way, whose 15th album has sustained the quality of the first few.There's also no other artist on the planet who's won four albums of the year.So we're talking about a unicorn here.
41:17But that to me from a music and art creation standpoint is the most fascinating part of, and the reason why we talk about our personal life,because it does impact the art that this amazing artist will create in the future.Yeah.I also, it's been, don't give me wrong when I say this, it has been plenty long, I think,for their relationship to develop into something worthy of this commitment and this love.I do think things ebb and flow, right, in terms of like, they haven't been together for that long.they must still be in such a, like,a honeymoon period that I'm not saying ever ends, really,
42:01but like in a period where she must just wake up every dayand be like,I was so excited to see Travis and, like, do Travis things.And I think that has really come through.Like, but then, like, I think at some point you sort of almost like find yourself again.You go like, oh, and then, and then you have a different kind of coexistence.that is maybe even deeper.And like, I don't know, maybe that happens.
42:28And she has a period of getting away from creativity and just focusing on getting to enjoy the stage of her life.But then at some point, she goes, oh, but like, I love to do this.So I want to do some more of it and picks it back up.Like, I do think that for as much as she plans, I think it's unknowable even to her because it's an impulse, right?It's it's catharsis. It's the creative need of a genius. And I think there are people who meet all of those descriptors who like at least as it seems like I observe it in culture with other artists with people who create for a living. Like some people do hang it up and then some people hang it up and pick it back up. And I just, how could you ever know that, I guess, is my feeling. So I think the good news is it just seems. I think the good news is it just seems.like she's doing the things that serve her and the things that make her happy. And I imagine that asmuch as we have to see where that takes her, like she will have to do that too. I want to just speak tosomething because there's a couple like internet things that we should talk about if you're up for
43:39it very briefly. And I'm going to be somewhat dismissive of them because I think a lot of it is justsort of like fun whirling speculation. The first is that, you know, there is a photo shoot fromLover that looks a lot like the... Yes, the Cornelia Street.Rose Garden.Yes.I'm going to chalk that up to coincidence.You?I am also going to chalk that up to coincidence.
44:00He doesn't know some songs on Red.He must not have seen the cover, you know, the inside photo shoots for Lover.Yeah.I mean, also like most trees look kind of similar.You know?Here, hold on.Can I give them their literal flowers for a second with this?We have probably never had reason to talk about this before.
44:26But there is a phenomenon that I have to credit Madeline Hill, who along with my buddy Charlotte Welder, hosts the sports gossip pod who loves to cover Taylor and Travis.They do a great job.Madeline also has a substack.And she has been for some time pointing out this phenomenon of the athlete wedding florals, which Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Kevin Love,he got married.Like the list is long and they all do the same thing,which is they all do these like super tightly bunched white flowers where a lot ofthe greenery is taken away and it's this very,
45:06Dwayne Wade.Like it's,it is every big high profile athlete wedding seems to all do this very similarfloral aesthetic.A lot of them,they're either using Mindy Weiss as a planner,or it's sort of derivative of that style.And it's not that it's like, there's nothing wrong with it.
45:27But it is like, it happens every time.And I just can't tell you how happy I was to see some color in there.To see that we'd made an arrangement, we'd created a palette that was very tailor,you know, romantic pastels, but that also just had a little bit of its own,its own palette and its own style and its own design and its own aesthetic.So Lover, look, there's a reason that Lover opened up the ERIS tour beyond just the fact that it was the start of where she hadn't been able to put stuff on stage.It's beautiful.It's those beautiful sunset colors.
46:07So I think coincidence.And I think good for them for the colors.Oh, I didn't expect that.Okay.I got it.Wow.this is a tough moment for everybody who's been dating someone seriously for two yearswho's under the age of or over the age of 30.
46:27Yeah.In my view.Yeah.It's like, hey, let's get on with this.Are you fucking Joe Alwyn or are you Travis Kelsey?Who are you?I mean, how many, in how many relationships is one person, you know, bringing the phone over thisafternoon and saying to the other like, oh, babe, like, that's a.
46:47So cute. I wonder if they talked about it before. Do you think that we'll ever do something like,do you think just hypothetically, you know, if we were to ever and then that's either startinga beautiful moment or it's starting a big fight, that has to be happening like everywhere right now.It's actually a secretly tough night and tough week, honestly, for for the men without conviction,I would say.Any partner without conviction is going to have a tough week, I suspect.We just got to say it because it's everywhere on the internet,and it's nobody's fucking business.
47:23But there is all this, like, there's a lot of pre-knup jokes.And the answer is almost definitively that they will have some sort of real clarity around it.They each have their own set of finances,and they certainly have had a conversation about how they handle these things,which I think is part of what makes them work,because they clearly, you know, there's whatever.They've worked it out in two years.They each will have their own sets of finances
47:50and there'll be some stuff that's their ownand some stuff that's theirs togetherand they'll have a way of splitting it upand yes, there will be those conversationsand it will not be contentious or difficult, I'm sure.Because this is not Elizabeth Taylor marrying,you know, marrying the janitor.Yeah, but also nobody in the history of marriage
48:11or at least in the history of like modern marriage, as we know it now in this country,no one gets married without documentation and a spelling out of how their assets are handled in the case of divorce.If you don't have a pre-up, it is the state law in which you live.But there is still a piece of paper that says, if this thing goes south, what happens?So like to be, yeah, no, totally.Like, they're going to do what they're going to do.I think that's enough on it.Fine.
48:47Yeah.Yeah.But like, yeah.Does it exist?Sure.Yes.But it's also not a thing where it's like there's going to be 50 lawyers withtheir guns pointed at Travis Kelsey.
48:56Like this is a thing that you can do in a cooperative way, whether you are two very wealthypeople or too, you know, normally financially endowed people.It's also like, like, yeah, no.And they can do whatever they want.And if that is, if that is.if that is that she wants that she wants everything that they earn from the point that they're married goingforward to be jointly there is great if she wants to keep everything separate in perpetuitygreat they're both fine she ain't given up she ain't given up ownership of her master's
49:27no never you're i mean do you oh now that's a conspiracy corner do you think that she madesure to have that all wrapped up and done so that it didn't become a like not that it wouldbecome a complicated thing because he wouldn't be on board. But like, do you think she was like,okay, it's not communal property? Clear that up. We don't have a weird, funny legal situation.This matters a lot to me. Now, Travis, let's get it. No, no, no. They've worked it out.These things work best when everybody has their own stuff. They can do their own things with what theyhave. You've got some joint stuff that goes towards your joint activities and your kids.and, you know, one of the things that is amazing about Travis Kelsey in my mind,
50:08in the way that he has, I mean, God, boy, shoot your shot.That is the lesson.What a job by this guy.That's really beautiful.What a job by this guy.It's wonderful.But like, he has figured out how to handle it.And it's not an easy position for some men to be in.
50:26And Travis Kelsey has handled it with grace and admiration and support and all the things that,again, I said this in the last couple weeks.Like, the dude in some ways has helped to evolve the definition of masculinity in my view.What real support is like and what being a partner is like and how to be insanely confident and great at what you do,but also insanely supportive and admiring.You know, in the way that that GQ article said that I know a lot of people laughed at because the pictures were ridiculous.Well, and also because he said the football bounce is funny because it's a weird shape.That is true.
51:09No, yes, that's true.No, that's absolutely right.That's absolutely right.Just like his definition of esoteric, I think, was actually correct.But anyway, it was the writer's description of the way that he just sort of held her up,not in a possessive way, not in a secretly jealous way, but just in like that good oldfashion like Midwestern humility where he wouldn't even give himself those accolades. I think,I think it just, it worked. And we have kept up on purpose the episode that has a little
51:41Easter egg at the end from, whose album were we doing? Do you even remember? I have no idea.I don't remember at all. Maybe it was a one direction. Maybe it was, but it was. No, it was later than that.Yeah, but it was from, I guess, July or August of 2023, where when we, when this news first broke,a conversation that producer Kaya recorded where we talked about it.And neither of us had remotely any belief that this thing was going to work.You said something about Elon Musk.We've kept it up there because, you know, listen, we were wrong.One of many, many times when we've been wrong about the situation,
52:22I'm thrilled for her.It does feel very fairy tale-ish.But more so than that, when I think about like,the big celebrity weddings of my lifetime,these are two people who seem to be so committed to the principle of normaland who are doing an incredible job of embracing their public figureand bringing energy to it and celebrating it and not shying away from it.But again, protecting that space for the two of them.
52:49So I'm thrilled.And what I really want out of it is more awesome art, Nora.Okay. Nathan.I've given my prediction.I'm not going to ask you to name the designer of the dress unless you want to.But where do you think this happens?Holy wow.I have no idea.
53:12I'll tell you what.I think it's going to happen in a very private secluded place, literally like topographical barriers.Well, okay.So that's part of my Como prediction.one just because like there are a lot of Yahoo's who could get to Rhode Island who are not getting to Italy.But also, Yellowstone Club, got to be on the list.It could be, I just, I don't think you want to get married at Yellowstone Club.That to me feels not enough for Taylor and Travis.
53:48Yellowstone Club is awesome, and it's amazing.But like, I agree with you.That's why it's not my pick.But if you're talking about places that are topographically difficult and very much closed off to most people, it's a short list.And I think you put that on the list.What about the Christmas tree farm?Oh, that would be so cute.Didn't they sell that?
54:11Didn't matter?They got money.It's rentable.Yeah.I'm not sure she can get married in Pennsylvania, unfortunately.I think it's a little too, like, I don't think the Eastern seaboard.outside is ideal.There's too much
54:29population concentration.It's too easy for people tocome hang out.The problem with these two peopleis they have too many friends, Nora.I know.Like Travis has got a lot of childhood friends.He's got all his people in Kansas City,
54:43like the charities that he works with.He's got his giant family.I mean, God, just getting his brother's familyand all the kids in the door for crying out loud.I know.I guess those are going to, like,It's crazy.No, I bet they'll have a big wedding.
54:57Yeah.I bet they'll have a big wedding.That affects the logistics of it.Yeah.Because you got to get the more people that you have to get in.It's just a mess.Anyway, Godspeed Taylor and Travis.Please don't let the wedding get in the way of the marriage.
55:14Yeah, that.Cool.I say that to you too, Nora.I love planning my wedding.I hope Taylor.I'm sure you do.I wonder when it will happen.Anyway. Where can I bet on who gets married first? You or Taylor and Travis?
55:29What do you think? I think it's me because I think it's hard to plan a wedding for that many peoplein as little time as she would have at this point. Am I invited to your wedding?Yes. Maybe. Yeah, why did you think I asked you for your address like a week ago?Oh, I thought you were going to send me another book. No. Oh, I'm so happy. I'm one for two on theweddings I really care about next summer. Let's see. But I think it's me. I think it'll be me.But I don't know. Maybe. We'll see. We'll find out. It's a big day. I love it when this womanbreaks the internet. I also just six weeks ago or whatever, earlier in the summer, Trump was like,she's not hot anymore. Yeah, she's super hot. A couple weeks ago, he was like, oh, you know,
56:16she's where he's shitting. Today they asked him after the cabinet meeting.and he said she's a good person.He just, he capitulated.He knows.He seems like he knows.He's like,that line was getting me fucking nowhere.He seems like a good guy.
56:32She's a terrific person.I wish him a lot of luck.She's the only one who's been able to get that guyto just shut the fuck up.Well,cheers to them.Very exciting.What a day, Nathan.
56:47This has been every single album.I'm Nora Prince-Iotti.He's Nathan Hubbard.Thank you to Olivia Cree for producing this episode.And we'll talk to you soon.Bye.
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