Every Single Album - Taylor Swift Is Ready for an 'Encore.' Plus, Miley Cyrus's 'Bass Persuades'

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

We have been cl0wned. After dropping a series of obscure clues, Taylor Swift revealed that she is releasing an expanded edition of 'The Life of a Showgirl' on Friday called 'Encore,' featuring four bonus tracks. Nora and Nathan speculate as to why she's deciding to release bonus tracks after saying that 'Life of a Showgirl' would only be 12 songs (1:00), and talk about some of their favorite bonus tracks that Swift has released in the past (30:58). Then they talk about the latest album from Miley Cyrus, 'Bass Persuades,' and the two sold-out shows she'll be playing at the Hollywood Bowl (37:46).Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I get it. I'm Siaiaia and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem.

Oh, and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Prunciatti. And as always, I am joined by my friend Nathan Hubbard. And in fact, I am joined by my friend Nathan Hubbard for the second time in two days. Because what you are listening to now is, of course, a re-recorded podcast segment. Done 24 hours. After the original, because of the actions of Taylor Allison Swift. Oh, boy.

And it's wonderful to see your face again. Yeah. Thrown in the bucket. Unusable. We felt so good, by the way. Because we really should have known. We recorded an episode yesterday that, by the way, was supposed to be about Miley Cyrus and her new album, Bays Persuades.

And you are going to hear that segment at the end of this. But we spent probably the first two-thirds of that episode talking about Taylor Swift and her announcement of an upcoming single on Friday, Patient Zero. And... Taylor Swift at the Chiefs game. Taylor Swift at the Chiefs game. We were talking about all these things. We were talking about, you know, okay, this one single, like releasing one single. It's such a different mode from what we've experienced.

from her. Is it part of showgirl? Like, what does it belong to? And we were so happy because we were like, well, she never does, you know, this countdown. It ended at 2 p.m. Eastern on a Tuesday and we record on Tuesday afternoons, Eastern. Like, it never works out like this for us. We really should have known. We really should have known better. We should have known better. The whole premise of the discussion really boiled down to it's going to be fascinating to see what patient zero

what style it is who the producers are because this is the second time that she's released a single that's really unaffiliated with any other project but it's really the first time because I knew it I knew you was obviously affiliated with the movie soundtrack and this is the first time that she hadn't sort of designated

what it is like what on and less than 24 hours later she comes up with this? We now have a completely different conversation to have. Yes. And by the way, that's why we're re-recording this. Like, I'm sure at various points along this conversation, we can point out the ways in which we were completely wrong about things that we were discussing yesterday. Like, this is in no way an attempt to save face. It just frankly, like, that conversation was obsolete and made no sense. Yeah, it's a complete save face for me. I texted you at 6 a.m. when I'm looking at my phone and I go, oh my God, here it is. And then I text you right away and I'm like,

we have to re-record. Like, what we have now is stale-ass milk. We can't do a stale-ass milk podcast. Okay. Well, maybe that's what it is for you. But like, I'm going to identify some ways in which I was extremely wrong. But that's good. We're just trying to, we're trying to give you guys as as high quality information as we can muster and as good of a podcast as we can make. Let's do the specifics here, right? So on Friday, there's going to be a four-song encore to the Life of a Showgirl album. And this is music that, according to Taylor Swift on Instagram, was recorded in the week after the release of that album last year, last fall. The week after? Or like a week plus after. Right? She said she went to Sweden to...

Well, to celebrate. To celebrate the first week of the album. I guess I assumed that to be like after the first week she went to Sweden. She just says you gave Life of a Showgirl the biggest first week for an album in history. Me thinks she does celebrate too much. I took a trip to Sweden to celebrate with Max and Shelbach. Really? We just wanted to... Oh, you're right. To I. I guess she doesn't say that she went, like, right after. In my head, I felt like she was saying it had this amazing first week, so then I flew to Sweden. Well, I got some questions about this Sweden trip, but not because of so much the timing. It's the next sentence, which is, really, we just wanted to reflect and take in how grateful we were for the moment we were in.

Which is to say, originally, we just got on a plane to fly to Sweden. Mm-hmm. for a gratitude celebration. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, can we, like, center this part of this conversation? Like, I...

What's interesting to me, because it's been obvious for some time that something has been coming. A foot. And we knew that the Emmy's sketch had some Easter eggs that felt like there was some legitimacy to them and then there was the decoding of the third letter of all of the things that she said. Yeah, I got to talk about that because I have a real problem with that theory.

Okay, talk to me. Well, South or South are words that are not used as a part of the third letter of each word going to Encore. So if that's all it was, why did she say North or South? She could have just said North and not had any superfluous words. There is more to that Easter egg. And I... There was no reason to say north or south.

Unless... Well, so, or doesn't... Or I'm comfortable... Or I'm comfortable with because it doesn't have a third letter. The third letter of South is you. Exactly. Interesting.

It doesn't work. There's more here. And do you have... an idea of what that is? No. Unless Cleveland exclamation point is the sequel to Wood,

in which case my poll theory survives. Okay. I still want to talk about the fact that this belongs to showgirl,

but we need to discuss Cleveland and we need to discuss the exclamation point at some point in this conversation. We will. I'm, like,

I think just because she did, I knew it, I knew you. And also frankly, because, like, yes, showgirl was a, you can make a sort of metrics-based volume argument that showgirl was this, like, huge album. But I think it's, I don't, not trying to be a hater here. I don't think that album is going to be held up in the illustrious career of Taylor Swift as a success. I'm a bit surprised that she's like...

As a success? as a relative success to her other work. I think it just didn't. It's reception and the way that it peers culture. I mean, quantitatively, from a measurement perspective, it is a success in terms of the streaming. Yes, but do you think that 10 years from now, people are going to be talking about Taylor Swift and be like,

and you know what real, and the life of the showgirl album? No. I feel that it will. ultimately be a bit of an afterthought. I do too. And again, I love this artist. I love this human being. I could not be a bigger fan than I am. That album just didn't do it for me. And I don't think for most people, I don't know there's anybody who says that's their favorite album. And I think that she heard it. And I think it bothered her. And I think that's why there are lots of references to its

quantitative success versus the qualitative success. reception across large portions of the fan base and the critical press. And I'm just surprised that that doesn't, like, I would have expected that to translate to. And so, therefore, we turn the page. No. Like, let's move on to a new project or a new something that can be different. And maybe it's more successful from that perspective. I think there's a cognitive disconnect for her.

Like, so do you feel like this? this is an effort to raise it up a little bit. Yeah. And then my follow-up question is like, do you think that bonus tracks can do that? No. Not when they come a year later. And not when the original pitch on this album was 12 songs, 12 bangers.

That's it. And this was the constraint that I worked under. Yeah. No. This is, and I do think so. And by the way, I really hope these songs are awesome. I'm going to be excited.

I'm giddy that she's doing this. I'm giddy that she just constantly uses her power as a, and we talked about this on the now, never to be heard again podcast, but I said she is kind of a media company. What I meant by that is she has a direct line to almost every person on the planet. And so it's an enormously powerful position,

and she uses it. But I just, I think... I know, Nathan called Taylor Swift a media company, and I got kind of mad about it because I was like, stop asking me to be a fan of Walmart. But they're not a media company. Whatever. Taylor can reach every person on the planet.

Stop asking me to be like a fan of Forbes magazine. When I was at Twitter, one of our core values was reach every person on the planet. And that was aspirational. Taylor, except for that tribe that they're flying the drones over in the Amazon right now, and just needlessly interfering with, Taylor can basically reach every person

on the planet on her own. She doesn't need that help. So I think that we are now in the Grammy voting season, I think there is a cognitive disconnect for her because she does still have her finger on the pulse of the fan base. There is a disconnect between the quantitative success of a few songs on this album

and the practical performance of it in culture, which is to say it did not pierce through. And I think it bothers her because she is relentless and driven and believes passionately in the work that she does. And she's going to breathe new life into it while she can. And that's what this is. And so then she, I mean, is she trying to improve the chances of awards for this album

with these four songs? I think she has four songs that she's excited about. And this is that she wants to get out. In her mind now is the time to do that. Apparently instead of debut or reputation vault, because I do think you and I have a sense that she's holding those for when she can't be out front as much, or when she has a lull,

or something going on in her personal life where she's not able to put in the work on something new, that she can stay present and out front by releasing it. And now is a time when she can clearly do that. But I just, look, I'd want her on my team. Doesn't seem like she leaves a man on the battlefield. You know, she's not abandoning this thing. She's not giving up.

Right. Right. Right. Well, and one thing that, like, one thing I really admire about Taylor Swift, she really likes her job. She loves her job. She really likes to work, and she really, really likes what she does for a living. And like that, that comes through. When do you think this was made if you don't think it was like right directly in the aftermath of showgirl? Yeah, that's what I want more detail on, honestly, because when we look at the track listings,

we've got some very interesting names. The most obvious that we will talk about is Cleveland. Cleveland exclamation point. Unfortunately, you can never trust a Taylor Swift song with a single exclamation point. And this has been proven time and time again. Because of slut. Well, I mean, first and foremost, because of me exclamation point. Maybe dumb is that you'll never find another like me. But I think people, I think listeners of this podcast know my feelings about the song

canceled. And then slut is more, slut to me is more disappointing than it is bad. It's just like a song that really doesn't live up to its title. And that is, and that is, that's the list. And now Cleveland is joining the list. Do you think they're all jealous of Florida? Florida. Because it's got three exclamation points.

Florida got three exclamation points for a reason. You can absolutely trust a Taylor Swift song with three exclamation points. Well, why don't we have one with two? It's a great question. It's a really great question. The reason that I need to hear this. before, I want to understand the timing is, because when I see a song title, Cleveland exclamation point, I think about her sitting on the floor of the Cavs game with Travis.

And that was last spring. Sure. So it feels a bit more recent. But I have a sense that given that the life of a showgirl came out October 3rd, 2025, if she in fact took this trip of gratitude that just magically and coincidentally morphed into let's make more songs. You don't go to Sweden for a trip of gratitude and then end up conducting business? I actually didn't do that one time in fairness.

Yeah, like that makes a lot of sense to me. I sat with our friends at Spotify, but it really was a trip of gratitude. That said, those things were, I knew that I was going to sit with our friends at Spotify. I want to go on a trip of gratitude to Stockholm. It's a wonderful place to go. I'm putting that on my 2027 mood board. Go in the summer. We can do it as a podcast.

We can go to Stockholm for gratitude. Go in the summer. It's light 24-7 and there's just all sorts of vitamin D that's coming your way. I've met to Stockholm in the summer. It's really beautiful. It is incredibly beautiful. But I don't really think she fired up the jet

for just a trip of gratitude. But if it happened, you would imagine that it would have come... You're saying she lied. You're saying she's the lying liar who lies? No, I'm not. I think that somewhere in her mind, she was going over there to add. I mean, there is a disconnect.

If there's a cognitive disconnect for Taylor Swift between the quantitative performance of this album and the cultural performance of this album, there is a cognitive dissonance for me between the way that this project was introduced as just 12 songs, concise, it's a constraint that I put on myself, 12 bangers, here you go,

this is it, nothing else coming, go have it. And a year later, here's the, encore with four more songs. So what and why? Is it because these four songs didn't quite have a home? And so we tag them on to Showgirl. Is it because we're trying to give Showgirl one last look and one last boost in the Grammy season? Is it, I don't know, are these going to be, I mean, these are Max Martin Shelbach songs. So I assume the production's going to feel different than I knew it, I knew you.

In the light of the window wearing that scene smile Man, it's been a while But I know Is this all just a way to just put attention on her Because she's got Trying to get the Oscar?

Yeah, right. I mean, there's a thing happening online Where everybody's putting Cleveland into the line from the chorus of choose in Texas So she just goes full country But Max and Shelbeck do it? I don't think so. Well, there's some

think that feels a little bit incongruent with the photos, too. Like, she has these kind of, you know, they've released some visuals with this, and she's wearing, she's always wearing black in the photos.

There's almost something about, like, about them that's almost a little bit kind of musical theatery. Like, they look like the cast headshots that you'd see in a playbill. Yeah. Did they Photoshop her armpit or something? People are screaming about?

They did. You can, I don't know. You can, yeah, I think someone maybe wasn't so careful with the, with the cleanup there because the armpit does look a little. Yeah. She's pretty particular about the visuals, though. Normally, yes. But I do, like, something, something slipped past QC there. And like every, not every, but the vast majority of photographs that, like, we are seeing in artist promotional materials have gone through editing.

And I think we all know that and that's fine. So like that's not what we're talking about here. Correct. But I do think that something got past QC here, which I guess is notable because usually I don't think that happens with Taylor's team very much. I'm more interested in the fact that like the photos don't totally. look like they belong to showgirl. And I guess you could say that maybe it is that kind of that Broadway playbill side of things.

Behind the scenes. Yeah, that's a type of showgirl, but it's not the wearing rhinestones in the bathtub. It's not the feather boa feather headdress, Bob Mackie style of visual. It's not orange and teal. Like it's not the same, aesthetic palette that she was working with there.

And I wonder if that's going to end up feeling like it signals something about the songs. But I don't know. Can I just tell you, outside of Opelite and Fate of Ophelia, which are both. Yeah, which are both streaming in the one to two million a day on Spotify number, Fate of Ophelia is like 2.3 a day. Opelite is a million a day. Do you know what's streaming the best on a daily basis from that album?

Ruin the friendship? Correct. Good. That makes sense. It's the best song. It makes a ton of sense. It is the best song. Thank you for coming to that.

And... I don't know if it's my favorite song, but I do think it's the best one. And I think there's a... I mean, that's, this was an album that had two songs. Well, that's actually not true. Elizabeth Taylor, I think, is streaming a little bit better, but it's really close. Elizabeth Taylor. But those were three singles, basically, that got put out and had videos, made, and everything.

This was an album that, for the first time, it feels like, and we're going to, we're going to throw it to the Miley conversation at some point. But at some point, this was an album that felt a little bit like Leslie. of an album and more like a couple of singles and some other stuff. And different than something that she'd pursued before. And I think algorithmically it has performed that way. I mean, Ophelia is over a billion already. Yeah.

It's, I mean, Fianofia is also still like if you turn on, if you turn on the radio, it's there. Like if I turn on Z-100, if I'm driving somewhere right now, Like you're hearing fate of Ophelia constantly. You are hearing choose in Texas, Bruno Mars, and fate of Ophelia, just sort of like on a loop.

And that's kind of it. And it speaks to the power of the music algorithms that we are subjected to, depending on what service and place that you're listening to music. But it just performed in that way. The rest of the album isn't just quantitatively, again, not streaming in the same way. It just isn't. And that's okay because these two songs

are definitely big songs that some people care about and listen to in a meaningful way. But whereas we turned off the microphones yesterday looking at each other going, I don't know, for all we know, this could be like a transition to country. This is the first time she's ever launched a single that's not associated with an era.

And 24 hours later, it's this whole... I mean, first of all, Do you think there were some leaks? I felt that it belonged to Showgirl. But I wasn't sure because the last song that we got from her was a single that was more country-leaning and that was Jack Antonoff. Do you think that there were leaks that prompted her at six in the morning to make this announcement? Like, why the back-to-back days? Yeah, it's a good thing to mention because it does feel like there's something about this rollout.

And maybe, like, by the way, maybe something with the visuals, it's like maybe they rushed some of that out. It does seem like there are some leaks out there. I've seen lyrics. There's stuff that's floating around online about the Patient Zero lyrics in particular that seems to be out there. So yeah, I think that's definitely possible. I mean, I'm excited because

another discussion that you and I had was whether I didn't feel like there were any songs on Life of Shoeuvre. showgirl that were like really deep love songs about Travis about them as a couple and our conversation about patient zero was if you think that patient zero is maybe taken from that Los Angeles Times line where they say Taylor Swift basically said Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey are patient zero for an emotional contagion about their relationship it would be kind of the first time that she's written about them as a unit as opposed to her infatuation with him in so high school.

Or his private parts in wood. Or, you know, like it would be the first time that she sort of wrote from a position of us. and that is going to be really interesting because it's the continuation of her pivot to joy. Can we table this because I have seen, I have seen lyrics because they've... That are definitely real? I don't know. I don't know.

But it's really hard for, like, I've seen lyrics that may or may not be real and I don't want to, it's like hard for me to not speak from a play of having seen those and being wondering about that, and I don't want to ruin it for other people. And also we're going to get a chance to talk about this stuff very soon. So, like, I feel like we can get there.

I, like for me, and this is less, you know, I think this is a lot to ask of four songs that are still being positioned as bonus tracks. More broadly in the grand scope of the career of Taylor Swift, who, as far as I'm concerned, is entirely welcome to continue working and making songs for reasons other than the ones that I'm about to lay out

and I'll be happy to listen to them. But in terms of accomplishments, and this is a person who likes goals and accomplishments and trophies and benchmarks. To me, there are only two remaining, basically. Song of the year. They're less tangible than that. Okay.

I think it's been a long time since she wrote a song, since she wrote and released a song that really has a strong argument to make that it belongs in the pantheon. What's the last one? Anti-hero? For me, it's But Daddy, I love him. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think, But Daddy I Love Him is a really important one. You think it's one of her greatest songs ever written? I mean, you can't understand her and the canon without hearing that song. I agree. I think that's like an electrifying song.

I mean, you also, but you also can't. And I think it really matters. But so is the smallest man who ever lived. The good song, a message to the smallest man who ever lived. Yeah, but I think But Daddy I love him is. is the one that I would choose. I think it's just more, like I think in particular because it's about the fans. Yeah.

And that's so, like, the way that we will understand Taylor Swift in X amount of decades will be intrinsically linked with the modes of modern standum and fandom and how she has wielded her fan base and how they have wielded her at times. And the same,

the quiet, part out loud of But Daddy I love him Wine moms And like the The fuck you and the horse you wrote in on Of it all like it just Yeah

It's just a remarkable song For that reason And I also like I love smallest man Who ever lived but I do feel like it Went to another level for me With the live show And if you really ask me Like if you really ask me to boy

it down to the song itself. Daddy, I love him is just, that's the one for me. And like, that's the one where I think if you, I'm not saying she has to write a song that's going to be a top five song of her career. Like she's on her way to 300 at this point. Like, it's a tall task. But something where it feels solidly in the top 20, I think if most people make that list, it leans pretty heavily on things that happened, you know, a decade plus ago.

And doing something that really feels like it has that type of fastball now in 2026 would be really meaningful. The other one is, you know, I think Travis still has a little, a little bit of proving himself to do as a muse. and amuse beyond things that are sort of sweet and silly. And so a really great Travis song that kind of escapes new heights of manhood or Touch Me While Your Bros. Play Grand Theft Auto song I Love, by the way. I think that would be meaningful. I think that's a bar to clear.

And I don't necessarily feel. like a set of four bonus tracks is the right place to be evaluating whether or not she's able to do that. But like, that's where my eye is. Like, that's, that's sort of, you know, to the extent that I want certain things from her, from the perspective of an entitled fan. That's what I want. Are we putting too much pressure on these four songs? I mean, let me ask. That's why I'm saying I don't think it's the right space to be asking, like, can she do that or not? Because from a vector perspective, like when she's brought the vault, for example, or bonus tracks,

like what are the best, you know, Steve Jobs at the Apple presentation and one more thing? what are the best of those and one more things that she's made? All too well 10 minute version Is It Over Now and nothing new

featuring Phoebe Bridgers Baby Was it over Is it over now And we still want me When I'm nothing new And I ride pretty hard for I bet you think about me Then I was too late

I bet you think about me Well, Black Dog was on the second part of Tortured Poets How you don't miss me In the Black Dog When someone Place the starting line

And you jump up Oh, didn't factor into I thought we were talking about the vault If we're talking about the second half Of a tortured poets, then yes, the Black Dog And the Bolter Started with a kiss

Oh, we must stop meeting like this But it always ends up the town car speeding. But more the black dog than the bolter, but both of them. So, I mean, I think... I mean, the best Taylor Swift bonus track of all time is New Romantics.

And that's like totally on my Mount Rushmore. So it's not like she's never pulled something out of the bag. A little bit after the fact. It had. Yeah. It came in the after midnight thing that it felt like... And I damn sure I never would

Dance with the dance Okay, that doesn't feel like it counts. The after midnight, Midnight's tracks and the tortured poets anthology feel like a different thing to me. I guess I'm still just saying let's not set the bar too high. Ordinarily I would not set the bar too high

because I don't think that she's put up very many Pantheon songs as, hey, one more thing. On the other hand, there's a lot of space. In most of those cases, those songs existed or were recorded at the same time. This is potentially a year later, two years after she wrote these songs. Yeah. So maybe she's sort of grafting them onto the showgirl project, but they represent something else.

That's why I think we cannot talk about Patient Zero, but Cleveland could be the love song, right? I mean, it's kind of what is CLEveland exclamation point. But like some of these songs, it feels like most of these songs were written

after she was engaged. Yes, I think that's right. Cleveland exclamation point could enter the discography as the second Taylor Swift song to feature a somewhat obscure 30 rock reference.

Big that sweet Cuyahoga glow. What smells so good? Cleveland. Just putting that out there. The first being anti-hero, sexy baby. Sometimes I feel like everybody. The whole sexy baby thing isn't an act. I'm a very sexy baby.

Okay. Well, I'm not sure that's one that we, put up on the plaque, but fine. I'll be more interested. Look, I think there's a lot of showgirl that was about her falling in love and sort of the infatuation phase, because that's what was happening as they were gallivanting across Europe in the summer of 2024 when she was ducking into the studio to write this. Like half of showgirl was about falling in love, and then the other half was the long list of grievances. Right. And so maybe this will be a continuation of that.

I guess I'm just saying that... Four more grievances. By the time this album comes out, she is engaged. She is... They are definitely a we. She's got stability in that relationship. It's sort of an object...

More object permanence, right? And she's probably through some of that initial honeymoon phase that would cause someone to write a song like Wood or, you know, got the whole block looking like you which is fine, but that's some of the sort of giddiness of the early stage of relationship that percolated into the songs.

So I'm interested to hear her write about depth without darkness, as she called Travis, and the human exclamation point, which is probably why Cleveland has an exclamation point on the end of it. There's another one called Pink Clouds, and Pink Cloud Syndrome is, refers to a sort of like temporary stretch of overconfidence and like euphoric feelings and like optimism for recovery in the first period of it's often used in terms of like recovery from a substance disorder so that's that's an interesting title

um Babylon hopefully she's just redoing the David gray song of the same name. Can I, like, I don't think this is going to be it. But, like, there is something sort of weirdly tortured poetry about, I don't know, maybe it's just that the photos are, like, mostly sort of black, white, and gray. They're not in black and white, but, like, that's the color scheme. And so maybe I'm just being, being overly simplistic and basing it on the colors.

But I just, there is this interesting question of, like, what do these songs belong to? And obviously, we've talked about that, and we'll talk about it more when, when we've heard them. they feel a little ambiguous. Yeah, I agree. Nothing left to do for us, but to find out, I suppose. I eagerly await Friday. Let's kick it to our Miley conversation. Let's talk about Miley Cyrus.

While Miley, who has really, though she's put out albums, been, I would argue, a singles-focused artist. And one of the great singles artists. One of the great singles artists of the 21st century for sure is in her second real turn at trying to create an album that is not devoid of singles but does not have an obvious one. Oh, that's an interesting way of putting it because I would say that it does have an obvious one. and of course we're talking about bass persuades, which is Myles Cyrus's new album. I think the first single,

I think the title track, to me, is the obvious single. I just think it's not, it wasn't the point of the project. The point of the project was to make an album. Well, and it represents very little about the album as a whole.

It's almost like, you know, it, if we're still stuck in Taylor Swift brain, like it is in some ways that classic, it's me. Red herring of, yeah, the rest of the record sounds nothing like this. In some, like, I, I'm confounded by this album, and I think everyone knows that we love Miley and, like, I'm totally in the bag for Miley.

I'm, I, this is an album that I think left me with more questions than answers, and maybe part of that is because of that lead single, not having a lot to do with, with the rest of what's on here. It also, the title of it and the title of the album, I assumed, promised more of a focus on dance music

than ultimately comes through here. I mean, did you find there to be a lot of bass to be persuaded by overall? I did not. It's not a lot of bass. Album's called bass persuades.

What's going on? I don't know. I mean, the thing I'm wondering, base persuades reminds me a lot of training day. Like training season? Training season, yeah, yeah, not the movie training day. I also was thinking of Duelipa a lot when I was listening to this. Yeah, and I think it listened better on listen two and three.

But I was largely unmoved by this as a project, I will say. And it isn't bad. There's nothing about it where I'm like, oh, this thing has got to go. And there have been Miley songs where I've been like, dude, fuck this song. There's one song that we need to talk about that maybe needs to go. I actually don't feel like I know which one it is, but tell me. You don't? It's the one where she has an orgasm on Mike called Neon Signs with the guy.

It didn't bother me that much. Really? I didn't really care. I cared. A lot. Who is this guy? Because the rest of the album is about her boyfriend, Max, who she's, like, crazy about.

Like, there's a lot of love-lovy stuff on here. Aren't they married now? And then, well, there's a song called, Let's Get Married on this album. Yeah. But I don't believe so. No. Oh.

But this song, Neon Signs, featuring Andrew Wyatt of Mike Snow, which she really had to make sure you knew it was Andrew Wyatt of Mike Snow instead of thinking it was Andrew Y. Yeah. Thinking it was Watt. But he's going on in the background.

I think it's supposed to be funny. But I don't know if they think it's supposed to be funny. And that was my macro thing with this album. Like there were some, again, 10th album, Red Lights is a song on this album. Truth is all we need. And also what I do.

that sounds to me like the way Madonna started singing a little bit later in her career where she had something, a message that was really important for her to articulate, and therefore she started to over-enunciate the lyrics. And there's a lot of over-enunciation in this album and this song that to me, feels like what starts to happen when famous people get in a bubble and they're like, okay, I need this album to mean something. So I want to make sure that the listener hears it, which is different than like, you know, most of what is on bangers and lots of, you know, we can't stop stuff. You could, her first purpose was not articulation and enunciation on those songs.

Sure. I think that's fair to say. Red lights, I will say, I like red lights. That was one of the ones that I was more into. Yeah. And I also want to give it credit for having some bass. Yeah, fair enough. I did, I did, and this is a disservice to Milit in, a disservice to the album. I spent a fair bit of my time listening to this record just being like, is that a bass?

Is that a bass? Where's the bass? It's like a little bit of the daughter from hell thing with the Gracie Abrams. Rooms did where I'm just like every song is ticking by being like, what did you do? What did you do? That was so bad. Grace, like, where is it going to come? And that doesn't have to be the entire point and I kind of made it that way.

The song that made me feel the way that you're describing of maybe getting a little bit overwrought in, hey, I have something to say this is really important, was actually was base persuades, was the single. And I think the chorus of that song, like, like, I think the chorus of that song, like, kind of bangs or at least tries to, but the verses I find really corny and the stuff about like fentanyl.

Yeah. I was my weird timing with the weird celebrity book. Yeah. And also just the sort of like saying something that capital M matters going in the wrong direction.

Like that that's when my red light for that was was blinking here, unfortunately. Innocent ways, she's talking about her sister. I want better for my sister. She calls me only when it's late night and she's high. There's some, like, honesty that comes through it. I just, there are times when Miley Cyrus's voice and the melodies that she's singing in the music underneath her

just move you. There are powerful moments of that. And I just didn't have that moment on this album where I was like, wait, what? I went wait what on neon signs. Like, I was like, wait, what am I hearing? Is this, is this serious? Am I supposed to? Is this like bangers era kind of stuff? Or is it kind of a bit? But there wasn't a musical moment on here where I was like, I got to go back and hear that again. And I did feel that in a few places on the last record. Yeah. No, me too. Me too.

A question I have is why she, like, I would like to understand a little bit more why she made this. Because, so you mentioned the last record, which I think both of us quite like, and I still quite like it. It wasn't a big commercial success. Nope. And this has not been, and I don't think will be either. None of that is stopping her from when she does these shows at the Hollywood Bowl next month. There are literally millions of people or were clamoring to get tickets. And I don't think she's going to do this because of some of her live performance limitations that we've talked about.

but if she wanted to do a 60 show residency, it would be an insanely hot ticket. And that has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on here, really what happened on the last record. And it's like she has these portions of her career that seem pretty detached from each other. And I'm trying to fit them together. I'm trying to sort of understand how one informs the other

if there is a way in which they do. I think you're onto something there. When we think about Taylor Swift, I feel like there's connective tissue through all of those eras. I think Miley Cyrus has changed a lot as a human being and probably feels, say, more disconnected from We Can't Stop

than Taylor does from Dear John. Sure. And so she is... Well, I mean, think about, like, if the number one question, I think that we had for Miley when we talked to her It was we wanted to get this understanding of why do you do this thing where every time you release an album, you instantly tell people that it no longer represents you. Right.

And then it's just not your thing anymore. And I think she had such an interesting answer to that. And it was actually more sort of perfunctory in some ways than I would have guessed just being about like she just moves fast. Like she likes to, you know, kind of be in perpetual motion. But I think that for her- She told us she had this album already in the can when we talked to her. Right. Right.

So she is kind of racing forward at the speed of light in that way, but I think that for her informs something where she doesn't like to do the looking back part of it. Whereas think about Taylor, the entire heiress tour, the entire re-recording project, you know, it was about reclaiming, but she is so comfortable going back. She's so comfortable doing all the old stuff.

She's so comfortable kind of re-inhabiting. all of those past selves in a way that I don't like I think you're right. Miley has rarely shown a ton of interest in that. Well, and comfortable maybe is the interesting word to unpack, and it applies to both Miley and Taylor. And the reality is that a lot of both of their art has come from turbulent things in their lives, whether it's feeling, whether it's experiences. that's not unique to these two women.

That's like what generates a lot of art. It's the story that percolates through religious teaching. And the story of Jesus is about good coming from suffering. That's what makes a lot of art. And it is not unique at all that as artists get more settled in their lives and they have families or they have partners and they accrue. wealth and they get comfortable that that driving force to create art sometimes dissipates. It's a thing that just seems to happen.

And some of that is with age, some of that is with circumstance. But comfort is what I think both Miley and Taylor are interestingly going to battle with now. Taylor is in the happiest place that we've ever seen her. Miley seems to be in the happiest place that we've ever seen her. So what is the art that comes from that? And I'm glad that she's making it, Miley. And the question is just like, does it connect fully with the audience? And how does it integrate, to your point, into the rest of the catalog in a live performance?

She did an interview with Zane Lowe that I think some clips from have gone a little viral for the wrong reasons, including because she, it was interesting to me that she didn't talk about her, you know, lack of more dates in terms of what her voice is ready for. Because, like, it's not as though she's not on record talking about that stuff. And maybe she just assumes that people know about it. But in that interview, I think she's had some stuff that's sort of gone, you know, where certain little snippets have gotten picked up where she's saying that she's basically doing it because she can

and she doesn't need to drive to her fans, they'll drive to her, and she wants to be able to go to her same nail place and da-da-da-da-da. I found it refreshing. Like, I think there's probably a lot of artists who feel that way, but would give a more media-trained answer.

And she's just riffing, and it's not that serious. And I see how when people pull it out of the broader context, it sounds a little bit intangent. But it was interesting to me just because it seems like that had gone a little haywire that she didn't, that she wasn't talking about any of the stuff with her voice. I didn't totally understand that. Here's the truth. I don't think she knows what her voice is capable of right now. I think she knows that it's a fragile instrument. They're going to do these October shows and see. She'll see how it feels. She talked a lot about liking to sleep in her own bed. You know, the fans wanting her to come play stuff. She likes to sleep in her own bed, touring it. is a threat to her sobriety from her perspective because she counters it with routine.

So could down the road, if she enjoys this, you know, could she figure out a way to keep that routine and do some kind of residency and if she has fun with us, I think she's going to have fun doing this tour, or these tour dates. I think she's going to get out there. She was very funny joking about it being like, it's so funny to call it the tour, it's two shows.

Yeah, but I think she's going to get out there and feel some pretty intense energy. And let's see if that doesn't spark something that meets in a place where she, again, can remain comfortable. And in this place of happiness, that's what we want for all the artists that we love and we love Miley. She's given us plenty of art if she never makes another song and she never plays another show. She has done her job. And also, like, it is true. she doesn't need to drive to all of us. We'll come to her,

should we be so lucky to be able to get into the room? And there's a lot of people who say the same thing with their actions, and I don't think that she should be crucified for like being willing to be frank about it and a little silly and saying it with her words. Yeah. Also, there's just pockets of the internet,

they're going to take the swing no matter what. So just like put it aside, there are millions of people who would pay to see Miley Cyrus and would travel to do so. So if she wants to set it up, they will come. It's just whether or not that's something that she wants to do in her life right now. That's why the Hollywood Bowl shows are going to be the most fun sort of in the Miley Canon to check out.

Because it's going to dictate, I think, a lot of what she does over the next couple of years. What the set list is is a fascinating question to me for the same reasons that we've just talked about in terms of her perspective on. her retrospective discography being something that just seems to be this moving target and the stuff that she feels represents her and doesn't, that seems to matter to her. I don't know how you do something like this without dipping back. I think people will expect that. I think it would be really exciting if she did. I assume that she will.

But the choices that she makes around what music she centers. will be really interesting to say. What if she just went up there and played dead pets? I'm all in. Can you imagine? Five million people in the queue. She gets up there. She plays Miley Cyrus and her dead pets, top to bottom.

Thank you. Good night, everybody. The blowfish. This is why I'm like, look, like this project did not speak to me. I still love hearing her voice. I just, I think there's like a pretty high floor for a Miley Cyrus song. This collection, I don't totally get it. I don't get the why.

I just, she just has endless sort of rope with me because she has a level of doesn't give a shit. Yeah. That is so rare. And it's just like, we just, don't have very many pop stars who would make Miley Cyrus and her dead pets. The visuals on this album are pretty cool. I think they got that. I think they got that right.

Yeah. I think one thing she does seem to understand is the connectivity between music and visual. But one of the reasons why I thought about training season is just I do wonder if she takes this out on the road and tastefully intertwines it with the back catalog if it doesn't. doesn't boost people's interest and understanding of the music a bit more. The live treatment of these songs could help, but I'm generally, I think you and I are in agreement. Yeah, it wouldn't be my dream set list, but I can see, I can see that happening. I mean, it also presumably could not be an entire set list, because this is 37 minutes of music and the last song is a remix of the first song. Yeah.

It's not, it's not meaty either. which I think lends itself too. She's going to lean on some other stuff, and I think people will be happy for that. I did kind of feel like on Aftermath, there was a bit of a Bev appearance. Go back and listen to Aftermath and tell me if your Bev lights are flaring. Well, Kit Harpoon is all over this as the producer.

I, you know, he's not immune to a Bev appearance. No. He's worked with Bev before. No, that's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. He knows Bev. He's got, he's got Bev in the contacts for sure. Anything else?

No. I'm excited about this week. I'm excited for no one to ever come back to this episode because everything that we, that we speculated about was wrong and that it's actually the start of a new album, and who knows. Taylor Swift, you're a maniac. It's been true once.

It'll be true a million times. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Pryanti. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kai McMullen for producing this episode. And to you for listening, we'll talk to you next week.