Every Single Album - 'Taylor Swift: The Eras Tour' | Every Single Album: Taylor Swift

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

Nora and Nathan review the Eras Tour movie. They talk about their experiences in the theater (1:00), which songs got cut from the movie (21:35), and whether they would have liked to have seen more behind-the-scenes footage in the film (38:16). Then, they talk about "Tay-vis" (1:00:40) and the forthcoming release of '1989 (Taylor's Version)' (1:16:44). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if you got scammed? Would you suffer in silence, or would you do something about it? Well, I got scammed once, and this is the story of what I did. I'm Justin Sales, the host of the Wedding Scammer, a true crime podcast from The Ringer. And for seven episodes, we're hunting a comment. A guy with a lot of aliases, a guy who's ruined a lot of weddings. And with the help of some friends, I just might be able to catch him. Listen to The Wedding Scammer on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

And welcome to every single album. I am Nora Pryantiati. And as always, I am here with Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, say hello to the people. Hi, Nora. Not a lot going on at the moment. It's me. Hi.

We've seen the Ares Tour movie. This has been the most extraordinary experience of my entire life. And that's what we're going to talk about along with the tailor of it all. She's been in the news a lot lately, hasn't she? Just a bit. So you have seen the Erez tour movie. I have seen the Eres Tour movie. I went last Friday.

But I just realized that I don't even know when you saw it, where you saw it, how you saw it. Tell me about your experience watching this movie. Well, my experience started with a phone call on Thursday night when I was in Las Vegas. and my daughter is yelling at me on the other end of the phone, telling me that she's in the movie. Now, the truth is we had a sense that it was possible because they had giant cameras in their face for a huge chunk of the show.

And at the same time, there were millions of cameras it felt like around that stadium for the nights that this thing was filmed. And my assumption was that every single human being in that building in some capacity was on film. So it started Thursday night with her getting a text from a friend that said, Tess, you and Haley are in the Erez movie.

They're an anti-hero. It's really cute. They look so good. They're so happy. I'll listen to you. And I was telling people outside of the theater. I was talking to some people who listened to our podcast who were very nice and was like, Nathan's daughter, you have to look. I was like pulling my boyfriend's arm like right when it was starting me. Like, they're about to be on camera.

They're about to be on camera. Get ready. So, but it wasn't full confirmation. And, but it was like 95%. And so then I was like, wow, okay. So then I put something out. 95% because the friends were like, I'm 95% sure you're in the movie. That's it.

That's it. Like, it's you. You're in the newsprint. It's you. It's you. It's you. But, hi. Yeah. And so, but it wasn't clear. And so then I put something out on Twitter saying, anybody who's going, can you grab a picture?

And within an hour, somebody's got a high definition clip of their appearance in the Erez Tour movie. Thank you to whoever sent that back on Twitter. I mean, this thing is pirated all over the damn internet. I can't believe. I mean, I cannot believe how many tickets this thing sold, given that somebody was able to turn around a clip in about 30 seconds. So then I was like, all right, I got to see it. I'm in Vegas.

I'm there to see my brother play golf. I'm there to see you two at the sphere. I did have some time on Friday. And so I went alone. to a theater in Vegas to see the Taylor Swift movie No And I have a lot of regrets about that

Okay tell me more Like what how full was the theater What time did you go So I went early Early as show Okay you caught you caught a Maybe not Sunday matinee I hit the Sunday matinee

Exactly on a Friday And there is this weird I mean it's like everything else in Vegas Except that like who goes to a movie in Vegas Like that's like the least interesting thing That there is to do in Vegas And so there's a bachelorette party Disagree but okay

There's moms with a bunch of kids I am a 40-something year old man With a Taylor Swift podcast And this is the first time I've felt super creepy Like sitting? I absolve you of that. You shouldn't have had to feel that way

And I'm sorry that was part of your experience. I think that's iconic. But that's an interesting way to take in this film. And like at some point like the people looking at me weirdly, I was like, oh, my girls are in this film. Like I had to say it even though they're not really in the film. It's like a quick cut just to like manage. Yes, they are. Not a lot of fans made the cut, but the Hubbard gals are there.

Yeah, just to manage my own bits of insecurity about being there. Like, it was, it just was a super weird vibe. And I have to be honest, Nora, and then I need to hear your experience. But like, I did not want to go see this movie. I went to the show four times. I recognized this as a position of privilege, but I saw this thing from, high above, from down low. You only went four times.

I feel like you went like eight times. Well, I think I... I just said that and you're right. I think I went more than four. I think I went... I think I would six. But all the more reason that I do not need to be

in this theater by myself in Las Vegas watching the performances that I was in the crowd for for crying out loud. And so I just didn't have a lot of energy or excitement to go see this thing. And I want to caveat my thoughts on the movie with that. All that said, let's park that because I want to know, it sounds like you were not

alone at this movie and you talk to some listeners. Like, what was your theater experience like? Yeah, so mine was different from yours. I'm guessing. I went on a Friday night, Friday night in the village with my boyfriend and a bunch of friends. It was... So you made it a thing. You made it an event like a lot of the people who were there. We just went. But we did go as a group, which I mean, look, like me going to the movies and a big

group of people constitutes an event both in my life and also in the life of going to see movies these days. I was excited. I didn't feel confident that I was going to walk out of there being like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. That's exactly how I felt being in the audience. So I wasn't excited in the sense that I felt sure that I was going to take it in in an exclusively positive way.

But I was excited to relive the experience. I was excited to be there with the group of people that I was there. Did you dress up? No. I am. Not even like Pete Davidson's Saturday Live sketch dress up. Okay, guys, there's a lot going on here. Let's take a look.

Notice Taylor's eyes. Look at the thumbs up, folks. It's a love story, baby. Just say, yeah. No, I didn't dress up. I was cold that day. I thought about it when I was going. I was like, oh, is it weird that I'm not dressing up?

But I was cold. I am going to, I'm planning to get my nails done 1989 blue soon. So I hope that that makes up for that. But no, I did not dress up. Um, although I did you raise or lower the average age of the theater. So, okay, this is interesting. I think I was, I did not have a significant impact on the average age of the person in that theater.

And I've heard a lot of people talk about, particularly people who, who saw matinees, talk about a lot of very young people. A lot of, like, kids being in the audience. That was not my show. My show was, there were probably some high schoolers, probably some NYK. students. Sold out? Pretty sold. I don't know that it was,

I don't know that every seat. Yeah. But for instance, I know we had a couple empty seats of people that that bought tickets but then didn't end up being able to go.

So it was pretty much sold out. It was a very full movie theater. And what was the energy like? So older, like relatively speaking, right, like 20s-ish crap. particularly like strong queer presence,

a lot of dancing, a lot of singing, reputation hit the hardest for us and for me personally. But I thought it hit the hardest in the actual show. Like, was that a surprise? Not necessarily,

but I don't think that the kids, the kid kids, are there for reputation. Okay. I think there are certain moments that set that are just like big and bombastic and work for everybody. But we were like this crowd was there to watch the movie and to watch the show and to have a good time sort of like reliving that.

But we were also there. Like when I think back on this experience, I will think back on like yelling out the Sydney thing in blank space and doing the take her home melody change. in the one and kind of like memeifying it. And doing all of the in-jokes. One, two, three, let's go, Bish. Yeah. And having that be a thing that like we all did together

is where this was a really, really, really fun, positive, memorable experience. Didn't you do that with 70,000 people in the stadium? Well, so, like, yes, but I'm happy to do it again. And in the crowd, do you have a guesstimate as to how many people had been to the show and then decided to spend another three hours doing this versus this was their first chance to experience it? And it was really meeting excess demand where there was limited supply. So my group had seen the show. I think everybody had it,

but at least primarily had seen the show. That was the sense I got was that most people, you know, if they hadn't seen the tour, it was not for lack of trying because this was a crowd that knew basically every word that knew the karma dance

and we could do it in the aisles and was ready to make the jokes and knew the beats of the show already. so, and this is where we get into the question that I think is a separate one of like, how good is this as a movie that's sort of different? And did they do the most with what they- That's a dumb conversation, but we're going to have it. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't know that it's a totally dumb conversation in the sense that,

like, I want to go again and I want to take- So my mom and my boyfriend's mom both want to go. Oh, boy. Have they met? And so, yeah. How's the vibe? The vibe is good. But like the piece of that where I'm like, oh, God, I hope this goes well, it's not like

them together. It's them and Taylor. I want them to, like, if we're going to go do this, I want them to get it. No, I didn't. That's why my mom, no way. My mom was like, should I go see this? I was like, hell no. This is not.

Right. And so this is where I think it's a worthwhile conversation to have of like the quality of the movie or sort of the effectiveness for someone who's not in the bubble, who's not in the cult, who's not going to dance and sing and doesn't know all of that. I'm not sure it hits. Well, but, I mean, you and I are talking about our moms, which is really sort of, is this the way to bring the older generation into Taylor Swift? Maybe if you're, you know, like my mother enjoys a good Broadway show.

So I thought perhaps the production, but putting aside the older generation that maybe doesn't feel connected to this artist, I think this was right down the middle for what it was really intended to be, which was so many people did not get to see this show. The secondary market for tickets told us demand massively outstripped supply. The people in the parking lots told us demand massively outstripped supply. People in all kinds of markets who just weren't going to go. I mean, their own comfort level, putting this thing out when there are still more shows left on the ERAs tour than have been played is an indication that they know just how many people wanted to come to this and either could not afford it or couldn't, you know, travel to the markets because they don't live there. So for that, giving these people the experience of a cultural moment, it worked.

got a ticket and got in, but we're in the nosebleeds or we're kind of behind the stage, right? Like, one of the people who I was there with saw the show and saw a great show and had a great time, but was in one of the sections that's like kind of to the side and a little bit behind the stage. And he got something out of being in the theater. Yeah, for sure. That hadn't happened live. That doesn't mean that the theatrical experience replaces the live experience, but it can be additive. I think even to people who did get in.

Okay. Do you think that for those people who went to this concert live and had a reasonable view? And by the way, if you watch this thing in SoFi Stadium, they have the most gigantic screens in the world before the sphere of... Very large screens.

The football teams are so into their large screens. God, they love to talk about it. Yeah, giant screens. The single thing that has gone well for the New England Patriots this year is that they, like, debuted their big giant screen. And they're like, did you guys see? We have a big giant screen. Yeah. It's too bad the big giant screen can't play quarterback.

But does the movie itself and the guy with the giant calves who was super annoying the first night and the robot BB8 that they hired to take video the second night or the third night, like, did. They capture things that you missed that are substantive from your live concert experience. So not, I don't think a lot. Yeah. I think to the degree that, and this is like, look, I agree with you to some extent. People talking, there's like a conversation about, oh, did it miss some of the box office projections and blah, but, like, who fucking cares? I could not possibly have that conversation on this podcast right now.

She made like a hundred million dollars with a concert film that took two days and somebody else doing it like oh, you mean not doing that? You mean for this particular case, the pre-sales were probably front loaded with demand and maybe your stupid-ass models didn't forecast that of course the crazies are going to go and then there's going to be some semblance of people who don't. Like, yeah, your algorithm sucks. That's not a disappointment. This thing blew the numbers out of the water.

It's an absolute smash. I will say, I did think it was sold out. So if I hadn't had tickets, I never would have walked up to a box office being like, hey, can I get two to the era store? Because I thought it was, I thought that that was not a possibility. For sure. And clearly that was. I also buy that there probably was the casual observer of this who was like,

I am not going to a Taylor Swift seance. I will go the second weekend or I will wait until it comes out on streaming, but I am not going to see 12-year-old girls holding hands in a circle, wearing costumes that I don't totally know. Like, this is not for me. I think that's unfortunate,

but I also sort of understand it. Like, one of the things that struck me was, I just had a moment where I was trying to put myself in the mindset of someone who, like, doesn't know any of the stuff and doesn't have the context. watching Willow and watching her go out there

with the orb dancing. You're like, what is this again, is this a seance? Like, what's happening here? Like, what did Beyonce think? Yeah. Do you think Beyonce watched it? Do you think Beyonce stayed?

No. I need to, like, this is my number one question. Sorry, we're getting like really out of order because I just have a lot, like... It's fine. Your energy and enthusiasm for this is making me. so happy because I really wanted to know how this was going to land with you.

I turned into, first of all, I saw it in a super weird place. Second of all, my kids are in it. So that's kind of like the focus. Third of all, I feel like I've seen this a lot from a lot of different angles and I just wasn't sure that this was what I should be doing in Las Vegas. But, you know, you made a moment of it. And you were not creepy guy by himself in a theater in Vegas. You are not creepy. I need you to know that you were not creepy.

I understand why you were worried about seeming creepy, but you were not creepy. I, like, I hereby with the power vested in me by producer Kyah. Thank you. Absolve you of any creepiness. Can I, because I feel like I have just like word vomited my feelings for what? Can I give you some like concrete takeaways here? Please. So one, I think the experience of this movie is, as we have been discussing, very significant.

dictated by the context of the theater and who else is there and are people singing and dancing and are people doing the bits and are you doing the bits and all of that. So like for instance, I want to take the moms and I am thinking hard about should we wait until it's on streaming. And then we all watch it together or something. Does that make more sense? Yeah. And we can pause and we can talk and we can blah, blah, blah, blah. I wonder if that's a better vehicle. I think that's what I'm do with my mom when she comes for Thanksgiving or Christmas. Will it be out by then? Will it be up? Whatever. We'll get there. We'll get there when we get there. But whenever it's on Netflix or Amazon or whatever it's going to be on, I do wonder if that's easier. Because first of all, now we have gotten past the initial weekend. And I do think that they are very smart to only have this in theaters over the weekends so that you have the concentrated audiences. Because I do think seeing this, well, I don't know. saying this by yourself would suck. Is that what you were going to say?

I would kind of enjoy. I'm not going to lie to you. Like, I could log off of this Zoom right now, go down the street. And like, we're recording this on a Wednesday. It's not playing today. But let's say it was. I could go in there, get a diet Coke and sit there in the darkness by myself. And I would have a really good two hours and 48 minutes or whatever. Yes. That's what's lovely about you, Nora. Well, but also I don't have like, I sort of look natural in that environment. And I, I wouldn't have any of the, like, creepiness anxiety is. But so, so I do think that being with other fans maximizes how much fun it is to see this thing. Right. That is not purely because of some of the, the shortcomings of how it was made, which I think are being over, overcovered, but do matter in some small ways. Talk about those. So, okay, let's talk about what didn't make the cut, right?

So we're missing the archer I've been the archer Yes Cardigan Yes Wildest dreams Correct Tis the damn season

Yes So we could call it even You could call me babe for the week Not necessarily I don't have a lot of qualms with what was what was cut out and what was kept in. Except, first of all, I was a little... Long live were missing, save for the credits, but...

And long live, yes. I sort of don't count it because it wasn't in some of the shows, but yes, that show, and nobody, no crime, which was also in the shows that they felt and didn't make a video. I'm sure it was just too complicated to get the shit done with Himes label or whatever. I don't know. I'm letting up until the day I die.

So, the cuts, the way that the cinematography was done is very jump-cutty. And the way that, which I think probably has to do with like, how can you shoot it so that you're not only catching the big screen and the big thing and what are you zooming in on? It had a couple of effects. One, I think that had to do with why they cut some of the slower more just like Taylor-Sexam. standing there without a lot of choreo and not not a lot from the dancers songs. Mm-hmm. And I do think one thing it didn't, it got rid of, which I'm sad about, is I didn't feel like

I got quite the same level of Taylor Face acting as I got live. Well, she was, she was punchy the night you, me and Kyia were there together. Yes, she was, she was on one. It was 100% sass that night. And I agree with you that I'm not sure that's what we saw on film. And we did see, I mean, there are certain moments where you get to see it

and you get to see it up close in Super HD, right? The, do the girls back home touch you like I do? And then she mouths like, no, no, they don't. That's a great thing to be able to watch her do when the camera is in her face. and you can, you just see every little wink and you see all of that stuff. That, to me, is the magic of Taylor on stage, much more so than choreography. Even with the back of dancers who, I like how that show looked.

I like the visuals of the show. I like how the dancers work with her and support her. Yeah, Last Great American Dynasty is a little bit of a sketch. And so it's nice to see that up close and the acting and all that. Sure. But I think those moments, the last great American dynasty But I think those moments, the choreography of something like a last great American dynasty, or the dancing and lover, right?

You get those really, it emphasized those moments more so, I think, than the acting from the cheekbones that she does. And it was cool to see some of those dance numbers and see those scenes up close and to get a better look at them. I enjoyed doing that. But that to me is not canonically what makes Taylor on stage electric. It's that she can communicate so much like wattage of emotion by raising an eyebrow or or winking or just doing little expressive gestures. And I love watching it.

And I do think that some of the, I mean, it was like an Oliver Stone movie sometimes. It's just like you're going around and you're cutting and it's cutting together and you can see the seams because the hair looks different sometimes and it's less frizzy in some cuts and it's more frizzy and other cuts. Don't get me started on the hair. I know. I know you had thoughts about the hair.

Just this documentary. of a slow meltdown. It's humid. It's humid in Los Angeles sometimes. It's fine. Oh, my lord. We just, again, just want to state for the record,

how is there not a product available to help this woman? Oh my God. I'm so maddy. There is not. There is not. Every woman with like quasi-curly hair or like sort of wavy and textured hair

is screaming at this podcast right now. There is no product. There is not a product. I'm just saying somebody should invent one. I understand. It's very clear there's no product. When you watch this movie, it's just like a slow descent

into the lower circles of hell for her poor hair. Take it up with like K-18. Okay? Yeah. Somebody needs to make something to help this woman. You know, I'm, we, you remember that after that first night, we got out of there and we passed her

police escort on the 405 going home, and she's in the back seat scrolling through her phone. You sound like the Californians right now. And I wonder if some of that jump cut was exactly what you're talking about. Like, there probably were some angles. I mean,

again, she was paying a lot of attention to what people thought each night, as she always has. But you just can't imagine that there were, I suspect there were a few times where she saw a scene was like, can we go with the other night on this one, even if it's harder and a rougher cut? Like, please don't show me in this angle versus the other. Because she does go through it physically. I mean, she looks terrific, but she's going through it on stage. And there

probably were some moments where she's like, I don't love the way I look in 4K here. I love the way she looks in 4K. And I love seeing the sweat on her brow. And I love seeing how hard she's working. And so it really didn't bother me. I'm not like, delegitimizing some people being bothered by knowing that they're watching something that was pieced together. Right. I just simply could not give less of a shit, but that's okay. Okay. Okay. I just, here's the overarching thing for me. All of the intrigue, and I don't think this is because I saw it for, you know, a bunch of times. So much of the intrigue around this tour to me is what went on.

around outside in that motorcade as she's driving home under the stage as she's doing the dive how the fuck does she get back up to the stage so quickly show me the turbo sled

she's going through a breakup what the fuck was going on with Maddie Healy like all of this but we're never going to get that but we got a little bit of it in Miss Americana I'm just saying that

so much interesting her star starts to take off in ways we hadn't seen before, even during the course of this tour, the capture of the celebrity thing. And, you know, the through line from J.J. Watt to Travis Kelsey, like, all of it. There's so much of an interesting story to tell.

One box office number I will pay attention to. 78% of the people who went on opening weekend were women. J.J. Watt can stand down. Yeah. That's the movie, though. I'm saying the tour itself, through the course of the summer, became a much more like diverse and inclusive for people who had not traditionally walked up the on ramps that she has laid over the last five years since she last toured. The indie dad rock stuff, the athlete stuff, like all of it was this room that, felt like you had all of America, and I think that's what created the, what is now a super cliche term, but the monocultural moment. What I will tell you is that the theater did not feel that way to me. And that's fine. It's not for me. But it didn't, it felt like more of a private club than what I saw in Los Angeles, in Arizona, et cetera, you know, across these stadiums

over the course of the spring and summer. And that's okay. And for the record, my theater didn't feel that way either. It felt different from yours, but it felt like, not like a secret session, because Taylor was not there baking us cookies, but it felt like a space for real fans. But here's what's crazy. What's crazy about that, if you acknowledge the point, is that the secret club, the inner circle, paid $150 million around the world to see this. That's how big the inner circle is in one weekend. Holy shit. And that is why...

They're still going to be able to sell it to a streaming service. And I think when it's there, that is probably when, you know, Joe Schmoe who's interested, but... My mom. My mom. Well, I would never call your mom, Joe Schmo. Well, whatever. I mean, like, yeah. The Taffy piece in the New York Times aside, and I did get her to read that.

and if any of you have not already gone and read from the New York Times Magazine last weekend. I read it. I couldn't fall asleep last night, and I was reading it in bed on my iPad at 2 o'clock in the morning, and I cried at the end of it. I was just like sitting there crying. It's not really about Taylor Swift. It's about something so much bigger, and it's one of the most brilliant pieces of... I got sent that article by a golf writer who is an excellent, I think, the most articulate golf writer. and he DMed it to me on Twitter and was like, I would be really... Sorry, I don't mean to make fun of anything while you're making like a real... The most articulate golf writer is like a very funny super... Well, fine, but he's like... No, I think that's a sports writer.

That's wonderful. You are an articulate golf writer is wonderful. You should have a soft spot in your heart for an articulate sports writer. And I was like, whoa, what does this mean? Because like, this is touching... And I just, I read through that piece, it was so unbelievable. anyway. Well, but I think that, I think this could, in some ways, this connects back to what you were just saying about the, you know, this was not, this was a concert film. This was not behind the scenes.

Yes. This was not sort of, this didn't reveal. And my experience with that piece was I saw the headline. I saw, you know, Taffy on Taylor in the New York Times magazine. And I like screamed because I was like, oh my God. Taylor talked to Taffy. Right. Because she's a, she is a celebrity profile. Right. That's where her bread has been buttered. And then I clicked into it. It was like, oh, no, Taylor didn't.

Okay. Taylor didn't participate. And at first I was a little disappointed. Right. And then I started going through it. And I don't, you know, no spoilers because I think people really should go, go read it. But it just ended up being this really wonderful thing. But something that does incorporate the fact that I don't think we should set ourselves up for the

disappointment via expectations that Taylor is in her like. personal revelations era. No way. I don't think that the sort of soul-bearing and to some extent record-correcting and politic playing of Miss Americana, I don't think we're going to get something analogous to that for this stretch. I think we're getting the work. Well, we'll talk about that as I'm sure we're going to move into what has been

happening in her personal life. But I do want to tell you, I have gotten multiple phone calls from movie studios over the course of the last month of people saying, hey, because we work with a bunch of artists, people saying, hey. Yeah, that's okay. You can flex. If it works for Taylor, let's go make 10 or 20 of these concert docs. Like, I love it.

it's so great, it doesn't cost that much, and look, people come to theaters. And, like, every time, I'm like, dude, don't be a lemming because with all due respect, there are very, very few people who can pull this off. Like, very few. She will lead you into,

she will make you yeat yourself into a strange hole in the middle of a gal-in- into a hole where you've got, like, you know, whatever. Like, you've talked yourself. into some, you know, I don't want to even make fun of an artist, but like there's going to be an artist who has no business having a documentary about them up in a theater. And again, you want to talk about creepy guys. There'll be three of them in the theater and you're going

to look like a jackass. So how this reinvents the film business, I'm not exactly sure, so much as it speaks to what was in Taffy's piece, which is this is a singular beacon of media who does not need a middle person, and that is the ultimate victory of Tree Pain, which is that she does not need help. She gets to decide what is presented, what is said. I don't think they had that level of conversation

about this piece. I really think they understood they had a shit ton of demand. It was an easy choice to film this thing. And a pretty cool move to just go straight to the theaters, cut out the studio and say, I can make more money putting this out there,

but I'm making this whole thing primarily not to tell a story, but to reach the legions of fans as she puts in friendship bracelets at the end for you and because of you who've made this thing possible, but either couldn't afford it because it was an expensive ticket

or couldn't be there because they didn't live there. I think that was the fundamental thing. And if you view it in this light, all of the goofy critique about all... Like, this was not supposed to be a piece of art. If it was, I shouldn't say that. It is a piece of part.

They made it, but they made it quickly. Quickly. Tell me a movie that gets shot in August and comes out in October. Like, almost not. Like, she put a lot, a lot of faith into the director and the editing crew on this. In service of getting this out to people while the interest was still there. And I respect that. Also, I think in part in service of not disrupting substantially, I know people had their

qualms, but not disrupting substantially the shows at which it was filmed. I think they probably could have gotten around some of the things that I didn't think were great about how this movie was stitched together with a lot more equipment up on that stage, right? But she was not going to do that. It was disruptive. It was just the first night, it was disruptive. But it could have been more disruptive.

The guys' calves were magnificent. Okay. Hey, you have this whole thing with the calves. I can't believe the calves. It's just crazy. He's like a deadlifter. Anyway, it was like, it's not because I was like looking at the guys.

His calves versus JJ Watts calves. I don't know. Whatever. It's just like a dude running around with a camera. Like, it was very much in your face. And you can't miss when there's this like tank with a camera on. Like you can't, it was disruptive. So I appreciate that they kept it to just a couple of shows.

I'm glad that the documentation is there. It matters. This thing mattered. It deserved to be filmed in the way that it did and captured in the way that it did. But I think if you overthink what this is, you start to delve into a bunch of criticisms that are just fucking stupid given that it was filmed August 1st or whatever and put out October 13th. Like this was an attempt to deliver the visual experience of the tour to people who couldn't be there or couldn't afford it. Mission accomplished. I definitely hear you on that And I think primarily I agree Just to state for the record I think it's fair game She put it out there And she is someone who cares a lot

About her work Though I will say She was more involved In the Reputation Tour movie Welcome to the Reputation Stadium Tour And if I'm

If I want to present someone It's a little complicated Right Because Reputation is a divisive album those songs are not for everyone in some ways. And also eras presents the poo-poo platter of the entire career in a way that that show doesn't. But if I want to choose an example of a show that has a compelling narrative structure and was filmed really well and that showcases the things that she is great at, I choose reputation. Hmm.

Any day of the week. she was, you know, I'll point out, she was more involved, I think, in that concert film than in this one. And maybe that's just my wanting to give her credit, or maybe that does have something to do with it. I choose this one because my girls are in it. Yeah, that's fair.

I mean, in somewhat, like, it's, it's complicated because if somebody said, I'm going to watch one Taylor Swift concert movie, it's sort of like, okay, well, do you want to get all the eras or do you want to just get one? But as a piece of art, I do think reputation is stronger. Okay.

And I think it has more narrative impact. I think it, and it, you know. Yeah, fair. All that fair. Speaking of the art, was there any song that you think became elevated via the movie versus what you saw live? Well, it's, I mean, this is not.

But I loved the reputation set live. That's what I'm saying. What was interesting to me was having everybody else in the theater kind of lock in when that started. The other thing that I will say, and this sort of shouldn't count because I did not get to see it live, our song is just a slam dunk. That is a slam dunk three minutes. is Taylor Swift and a guitar singing our song when I get to sing along with my friends? Like, what is better than that?

There just isn't anything better than that. I'm sorry. Like, we've all peaked. Because we got to go to the movies and sing our song. Or maybe even the tour and sing our song. There are so many songs she could have chosen for the surprise set. I think you're on your own kid was also a good choice. Why do you think she chose that?

I'm so glad that our song is in that movie. Our song, So the tour, right, and this was not the performance of our song during the secret set that made the movie version. But our song was the first surprise song. And then New Year's Day was the last one on the tour, which I think it has been pointed out. Bookends the recordings she's made that she does not own her original masters of. So it adds a piece of that reclamation narrative to this tour. And so I think maybe there's something to that with including our song in the surprise set for the movie.

But I also think that, you know, it's one of the ones that I really wish had made the set list. And it's not, I think, more people. broadly got into her via the fearless hits. But for a lot of core fans, that was the one that did it. Yeah. And it is just such a good sing-along. So that's an all-of-the-above answer, but it's a Yeah, no, I was more interested in why you're on your own kid was the one that she decided to go with. Our song seems super obvious. Like you had to do something for the day-be-ed-you-on-your-on kid. I guess it's kind of the it's a little bit the thesis of the show.

Right, it's this walk through her life and all of her different. And it's also sort of, as we know, where she was in that moment very much personally, although that was about to change, but maybe also feeling that way professionally. You know, I am really still shocked.

at Cardigan, and the only thing that makes sense to me on Cardigan being cut is that folklore probably was one song too long in the set. And to me, I thought they could have, I really missed getaway car.

I definitely missed death by 1,000 cuts. So there were some choices that were made, I think, to feature that album because she hadn't played it, but you know she hadn't played she hadn't played lover either um so that to me is the only thing otherwise you got to fall down a conspiracy theory hole of she didn't like the way she looked in that song or the camera work got fucked up on the couple nights and so they couldn't really piece together

something that was a comprehensive cardigan i don't know why they decided that two hours and 45 minutes was better than three hours or better than two hours and 35 minutes i would love at some point to hear a little bit of an explainer on why they cut the songs that they did and whether they targeted a certain time for the movie overall. I mean, so I think making some cuts was the right choice.

I will say, I think even with the opportunity to sit in a big cushy, recliny seat, that's a long time. Yeah, I'm dreading this damn Scorsese movie because it's a long-ass movie. Yeah, movies need to be shorter, but that's a different pod.

I'm amazed that this concert was as long as it was, and that I think is incredible. But being in a dark theater, even with people who are adding to the energy of it, it's just a long time. So I'm, I guess, glad that there were some cuts, or I think it was the right choice, even though, you know. Okay.

I'd have taken as much as I could get, but I think it was the right choice. In terms of what the cuts were, I just think you go through it and you see, them taking out the songs where she's a little bit more static on stage. For sure. That is the one sort of mistake in the construction of the film that I care about a little bit. I'm not saying that it's just about which songs stayed and which songs went, but I think

they felt like they needed to fill the screen visually. And I don't think that you do because I think that a lot of the moments that end up being most compelling are just Taylor at a piano, Taylor with a guitar, Taylor sitting and singing to you. And that doesn't necessarily, you know, I don't think that Cardigan is the same high in the show as all too well, right? Or as one of the surprise songs. It's not. But I think in their thesis of what would make this work inside of a movie theater, my sense after having seen it, is there was something about like,

we got to have a lot going on and we got to have the dancers and look they're twirling and look at them twirling and it's like breakdance. And I see that need in what stayed and what got cut. Like for wildest dreams, right?

I love that song. It's a super popular song. It's a little slower. I think it's just not in there because it's a little slower and there was less going on. It feels like Beyonce won't have the same problem because she's got, I think her choreography is, I would say, a little more elaborate.

You think? Can I just, can I go there without pissing people? Like, Beyonce is a fun. I think that's fair to say. She's a phenomenon to watch in some similar, but a lot of different ways. Create the new. That's what the Renaissance is about. So I think that movie will be different.

And it does sound like there's some behind the scenes stuff that's going to be a part of that. And, but. Yeah, that's, you know, the funny thing is that's the part that I'm worried about with it. Not worried about. It's fucking Beyonce. Like, it's going to be amusing. Of course, I would love to see Beyonce behind the scenes. But Beyonce, historically, she's an icon.

She's a boring interview. Like, she doesn't, she doesn't say she doesn't reveal. She reveals in the work. And she puts a perfect. a perfect product onto the screen. So I wonder if we will come away from these two movies being a little bit like, Taylor should have done a little bit of behind the scenes.

And I just want the, but like, I'm not going to prejudge that I'm so fucking excited to see Renaissance. Like, yeah. Well, I'll tell you one thing. Taylor's going to show up at that premiere.

Of course. She will a one million percent repay the favor. And I actually bet Taylor might stay and watch it. Which I do not believe Beyonce did. You don't think Beyonce stayed. No. Because she would have sat with Taylor. She's a girl's girl.

She respects the work. 100%. But she would have sat with Taylor. It's not like Taylor. But Taylor is sitting. I don't know. Taylor is sitting with her dancers and stuff and the singers. If Beyonce shows up to anything you do, you sit next to Beyonce.

If there's a seats. Like, come on, man. She comes to your house. You sit next to Beyonce. I think that's just so funny. It's a traffic stop. And she's the cop. You sit next to Beyonce. You just get as close to Beyonce as you possibly can. And that's fine. They took the little picture of throwing the popcorn. And what this was,

was promoting two women who have done something very, very interesting from a business perspective that, again, I don't think everybody can do, but sort of created awareness around, from business perspective, you can go straight to the studio or straight to the theater. And I don't expect Beyonce's opening numbers to quite be the same. But it, It is in a summer in which the two of them were compared, only because they both were doing stadium tours, and it was the summer of Barbie. And for all those things, some of which was fair

and some of which, as usual, was grossly unfair, I love that they came together to support each other in that way because it sort of diffuses this idea that there's a competition and just makes it about great women making great art. Totally. It's so cool to see them together. I mean, it had stuff coming up on my TikTok. What do you mean? There was somebody had put the video of them at the premiere, like, side by side with when

Beyonce brought her back up on stage at the VMAs with the Kanye incident, which was not the thing that was funny about it. I had just forgotten that in that video, she gets up there. Like, Taylor gets up there and it's really, like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, like weird to watch back, but Beyonce is being so generous and Taylor seems appreciative, whatever, they're having their little moment.

And then the camera cuts to Lady Gaga who has just like a white reef around her face. She's just standing, like it is the largest hair accessory I've ever seen. Well, maybe Taylor should have worn that as the show went on.

Stop it. Not another word about this woman, Sarah. of you. But anyway, that was a fun trip down memory lane for me. Strange Gaga, Sitch. I really, like, there were the videos of Taylor dancing and singing to the songs from the theater. I just would have loved a close-up on, on Beyonce's face during The Man. Okay. The Willow situation. Right.

Take my hand with my... Which, like, if you know Taylor... If you've never met this woman. If you're in the... If you're in the weeds with it and know that she's sort of serious, but she's also sort of kidding. And that, like, she knows it's weird

that she's dressed up as, like, a medieval druid. Right. That is such a different experience than watching that and thinking she's playing it straight. And I just, like, I can't imagine... What that would have been like. To also be... be Beyonce. Yeah. Someone who like, who deals in literal perfection, who is not like,

there aren't like bloopers in the Beyonce universe, but just like watching Taylor Swift's goofy shit. Yeah. It delights me to know it. Yeah. There are going to be different films. That's for sure. I'll say this, Nora. And it's not lost on me that I was in Vegas for, you know, the next day. I went to see you two at the sphere, which I'm sure a lot of people have read and seen a lot about. And I say this because I think when you combine that, which was an incredible visual experience, with the Beyonce show and the Taylor show...

Wait, I'm sorry. Can I ask an incredibly dumb question? Yeah. Was you two there or is it like the Abba thing? No, no, you two's there. Real you two is there. Real U-2. Bono Edge. Yeah, the only guy

is not there is Larry Mullen because he's a drummer, he's got back problems. So they've got like some... Rock on. Love it. Yeah.

No, no. You two is there and you just can't believe what you're seeing. And honestly, I think I've seen the two most visually astounding concerts

in my lifetime in the last couple of months. Taylor's for sure and U-2's for sure. And I just think that, you know, add in Beyoncé into that mix, like they are actually evolving in an innovative way

what the live experience is going to be. It is going to be very, very difficult for artists of all sizes in the summer of 2024 to walk out with a big screen behind them that sort of shows a few images and a couple pyrotechnics. Like what it means to make a great live event has changed before our eyes.

And this movie is a documentation of that, but it really is going to push a lot of artists and I think the overall fan experience forward. I mean, what this is telling us is, hey, people are willing to pay a lot of money to sit in the 400 level, but you better deliver an experience. And if not, like, your tickets are either not going to sell

or you're going to have to charge 10 bucks and weigh less. It's just going to be, there's this like, bifurcation of the live experience. that's happening now. And I'm fascinated to see the impact in 2024 because following the Taylor stuff, following the Beyonce stuff, following what I saw at the sphere at U2,

really, really hard to do for any band. And I think fans' expectations, the democratization of the consumption of this experience through this movie is going to raise fans' expectations for what they get when they pay somewhere between $50 and $500 to go see their favorite artist. Okay. So one more on the sphere.

There's like a stage, but then you're just in a bubble and there's a video. Did you even listen to me? I can't with the sphere. I'm so happy with you. Let's talk about it. I just can't with this. Yes, yes. You are in, it's like you're in an arena,

but there's 18,000 people just on one side. It's not an arena. So it's more like if you cut a stadium in half or something. And then the entire, yes, you're basically, the screen goes all the way around you. and because of the dome and the shape of the screen, they can do, and the size of it and the quality of it, they can do all kinds of visual shit.

I mean, there's like this moment where, I'm not even going to spoil it, no spoilers, but it is an absolutely fascinating visual experience that really is the only thing that can compare to what I saw on the stage and the screen at the Erez tour with the way, you know, we didn't need the CGI effects in the movie. There was enough going on.

on that stage if you were in a position where you could see it. And by the way, the people on the floor could not, could not see it. So I think if you were on the floor, you should definitely go see this movie and see what you're missing, no doubt. But just a... And the integration of technology into the live event and turning the venue itself into a canvas that requires as much artistic creative expression as what the performance of the artist is on stage, that's what... we're moving to now in this next generation of live events. This fear sounds cool. It's super cool.

Thank you for explaining it to me. I think I thought it was an AI thing. And I went to the, I went to the hologram Abba. You thought it was like the Tupac Coachella hologram? I don't know. It just seemed like a lot. No, it's the band on stage. I don't get Las Vegas either.

Like, there's just a lot of that that is not for me. Your mind would be blown. Okay. Okay. Even when it's like a little emoji, even when it's just there and they put the little smiley face on the outside. Yes. Up close. I mean, it's a fascinating just landmark. But inside the experience of that like a band, but this band and the visual experience that they create in this gigantic screen that envelops you, great sound, it is mind blowing. It really is. Okay. I went to last thing as for the first time. this summer and the highlight of my trip was doing a podcast with you from inside of a car.

But maybe next time, the sphere. It sounds fun. It sounds cool. Where were we? Well, any other hot takes on this movie? I mean, again, I did not need to see it. There's one more thing I need to talk about that I'd forgotten from seeing the show. But I'm glad.

The enchanted dress is simply so large. Yeah. That is such a big. bustle. How many families of squirrels were nesting inside that thing by the end of the tour? I know she didn't wear that same dress the whole time. But oh my goodness, just what do you think it's going to end? There's another layer to it. That is really, that is a feat of layering. I have no comment. I don't even know, again, I'm still stuck on why there's not a product to make the hair hang in there, much less like stuff around layered dirt.

dresses. I can't, this is something I cannot really relate to. But it's so, I mean, she looks like when my daughters would go to Disneyland and like they weren't quite large enough to fit into the smallest aerial dress and so you'd like put them in it

and they would be, they look like a lufa with legs. She looks beautiful. She looks amazing. It is just such a large hoop skirt. Okay. So that That's all. That much I get. There's absolutely no value judgment associated with that statement. I just was sitting there in the theater being like, that dress is really large.

It is a large dress. Okay. But you didn't need to pay $19.89 and sit through three hours to be like, damn. We need, somebody needs to put that shit in the dryer for 20 minutes. Shrink it up. I mean, I didn't need to, but I did. Yeah. And I'd do it again. Okay. Well, very interesting from a dollars and cents standpoint will be how the second weekend does,

how the second weekend does, how it goes over the course of the next couple weekends, because that's going to tell us, A, did the virality of the opening weekend experience attract a few more casual fans? B, were there some casual fans or interested parties who were a little bit scared? It's like, I don't know, man, I don't really,

go to like haunted houses because I don't want all those like weird people touching me and shit, but that doesn't mean I don't like Halloween. So maybe they didn't want to go to the first weekend because they thought it'd just be a little too intense. The numbers from here will be very interesting. If nobody goes this weekend, it will have been a resounding home run, un-effing, believable success, though. Yeah. I think for Halloween, I want to be one of the Willow dancers. Is anybody going to get it? I'll get it. I think people would get it. I think some people would get it. I think the right people would get it. Halloween and you. But so speaking of Halloween, it's nearly upon us. And the costume that I think most people are going to go as is some version of Taylor Swift, some era of Taylor Swift, and a certain tight end that you have covered.

on your other day job in football because despite our best efforts at questioning whether this thing was actually going to happen Nora, it's happening. It's happening. It is 100% on and happening. Do you have a preferred couple name?

I'm using Tavis, but I don't like it. I'm not... I don't know. I haven't thought this through. I'm still stuck. I do not like swellcy. It sounds bad. No, no, no, no.

But the thing for you and me that was hard slash weird about this was obviously the way that it happened, which was like God love Travis Kelsey, but he's a giant cornball. And the fact that he sort of took his shot so publicly in the beginning was a little bit off-putting to both of us, I think.

and the fact that it worked, because I think there was some measure of, like, it can't be that easy, can it? Like, this is not how... There's, like, a little bit of, like, a cat-calling vibe to it, which you don't want to do. But I don't think that that's... I think in hindsight, that is not what went down,

and she was a lot more of a driver as opposed to just sort of like a... Okay. I think it's great, it's great. But where I have come to on this, and by the way, we have resisted for a very long time on this podcast talking in depth about Taylor Swift's personal life.

But I do think when you hard launch it on Saturday Night Live... Once again, Ice Vice. When we get back, we are going to speak with someone who actually wants to talk football. Yeah. Albeit I know that that came together

at the last second. But when you hard launch it like that on Saturday Night Live and you are out and you're holding... And you are putting it out there and it, I believe this is... We're calling S&L the hard lodge. Okay.

Well, sure. But I feel like that was... I mean, you go to Missouri for a man. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. But like the, but like they weren't holding hands under the state. Like this was like a full out holding hands. Did you see that he holds her hand like a football?

Okay. So we're going to talk about this in a second. But I'm just making the case to the listeners of every single album that I do believe this is fair game, in part because... it is all, it wraps up all of the complexity of this woman in her career and the way that she blends her personal life and her art and her business. Because I believe with every fiber of my being at this moment in time that she's very interested in Travis Kelsey and that they have a legitimate real relationship. And I also believe with every fiber of my being that they are both using the attention on this relationship in this moment to advance their own individual.

businesses and careers. You know what I think the problem is? What? I think we need just like a different vocabulary to talk about celebrity relationships because I just don't think that it worked like, date it.

First of all, none of this is normal. Right? Like my friends are, oh, are we dating? Are we in a situation ship? Are we like the language is all screwed up? Fair. It is magnified and a hundred times more complicated when we're talking about one of the most famous people in the world and the chief's tight end. Yeah. Because it is simultaneously, like, of course it is mutually beneficial for them to be together right now.

They are selling things left and right. Yes. There are not paparazzi hanging out outside Nobu. sorry, I saw Adam Driver there like several months ago and tried so freaking hard to find some confirmation that that was indeed Adam Driver. And you can't because no one cares. No one's like hanging out there just to see.

And I just think that we like analyze celebrity relationships as if they're like my dating someone It's just like normal people's relationships, and it doesn't work. No, and that is why the initial reaction that you and I had to how, you know, the podcast shooting is shot thing, she does not exist in a normal plane of being able to have and meet people in any kind of, quote unquote, normal way. This is a perfectly normal way for a celebrity relationship to start because how in the hell, again, she cannot meet Joe from, you know, Silverlin. Lake. Like, it's not happening. There has to be some other way. Like, you just can't even break through her circle because she's got half of the Mossad around her protecting her on a daily basis.

But then also, like, if she, let's say she meets Joe from Silver Lake. Let's say somehow randomly like that happens and he's smoking hot and really funny. A different movie. And, well, yeah. But like, let's say that that happens and they really get along and they want to go on a date. They want to go on a couple dates. And it's really like organic and authentic and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's sprinkled with the farmer's market dust. That couple is going to struggle. They are going to run into huge problems

with Silver Lake Joe dating Taylor Swift. What about London Joe dating Taylor Swift? Right. But this is, you are right. And it's why I'm super excited and happy for her that for the first time she's dating somebody who is so comfortable with his own self, who has his own, like, masculinity,

he's comfortable with he's not so deep in his feelings. I mean, the irony is this is the first time she's ever dated a fan. Well, that's the thing that that really charms me about it is the way that he talks about her. Not only, I think, plays so well with the fan base, but I do think makes you happy about the fact that they're spending time together

because he talks like a fan. He talks like someone who's just in, awe of her presence and what she's accomplished and the fact that he gets to be around her. And this started with a friendship bracelet. He had a friendship bracelet in a dream. Yes, but he is also so different in terms of what he does and clearly who he is than when you think about the other guys who were artistic, who were creative, who were deep in their feelings, who were tortured in some way. This guy has none of that. He punches people in the mouth for a living and she's fascinated by it.

He doesn't quite do that. In some ways, it's basically his job, and it's so foreign and different. It's so different. The moment for me was she's in the box at the Jets game afterwards with Blake, and she's just giggling

over how he's doing the, like, congratulatory post-game chest punches and slaps and, like, and she's, like, imitating it. And, like, it's so, Different and new. It's great. But that was the moment where I was like,

oh, this is something so different from anything she's ever experienced. And even today, he's talking about, you know, feeling this need to protect her. But he does not, it appears, have any problem with her. He can sort of hold both. He can hold his role as like the guy and the mask, but also the sort of masculine, you know, big dude

who's like tapping the. security guard out of the way and being like, dude, I can open the door for her. I got it. Like, bring it on, right? But he can hold that alongside the fandom and sort of celebrating her strength and power instead of trying to run away from it. And I think it just looks like she's so appreciative to be in a position with a guy who's never been able to interact with her and be comfortable with her in that way before. While at the same time, like, being a dude instead of somebody she has to like take care of because he's Jake fucking Jillenhall. Oh my God.

That was intense. Yeah. My comment is I'm having a lot of fun. I don't really want to go like if the 1989 era, which is re upon us has taught us anything, it's that it is really hard to know what is going on behind the scenes. Yes. But here is what I believe is that on some level, when the group chat is popping off,

Taylor Swift is doing her job and doing her job well. And because her job is so intrinsically linked with just who she is and her soul and the deepest feelings she's ever had, that seems both true and complicated and particularly complicated when it robs in who she's romantically involved in. So I hope they're happy. I hope they're having a lot of fun. and whatever happens, I have really enjoyed. Yeah, I have too. I would say the fan base sort of melting down

over every angle of physical connection between the two is a bit much. But there's a part of me that thinks, like, she definitely understands. I think he kind of maybe understands, too. They just got to get through it so they can find a few moments of peace, like hoping that people will burn out at some point.

Like, I hope they do. I mean, it is true that, like, the divorced mom's kids have to like the new guy, but like at some point at the end of the day, let's let mom be happy. And I think the fan base is given the check. And also, by the way, like, and this is not, I buy them as a couple.

Like, this has nothing to do with like skepticism over if something is. Again, I think the whole concept of like is a relationship PR is, I don't think we talk about it in the right way. No. Because I just don't think that it is reflective of what being that famous is actually like. It's so hard to meet someone in that, exactly. And also, if something. doesn't work with your life and your job and your business, that relationship is probably

not going to work. They could also break up in a week and that should be fine too. That's right. That's right. But it's not lost. I mean, like, there's a report that she's been given her own home, the Rhode Island place, to Bradley Cooper and Gigi Hadid so they can keep their budding relationship out of the spotlight. It's like, well, why are you guys in the house? And the answer is, because she's out and doing it. And because 19 and 9 comes out next week and because he's going to be the rock. And because

and also because at some point you're so fucking big and your star is burning so hot that like anywhere you go you're going to get posted up. So let's just get through this period. Give the people what they want. Hold the hands. Show up on

Saturday Live. Get the anonymous sources saying they're making out. Just get through the honeymoon phase both with the fan base and press, but also with each other, so that before you go travel Europe next summer and get to Singapore and play Tokyo when he's, you know, the night before he would be playing the Super Bowl if they get that far. I think you might tell me they probably won't. But that you've got something that's substantive and you can make a personal decision about whether to invest in this relationship,

given that in her case anyway, she's coming out of six dang years of her life getting eaten up by a guy who she told us in the most recent song that she put out, he didn't want to marry her. Yeah. I will say I think people are coming down a little harsh on Joe. Yeah. I agree. Like the booth thing.

It's sort of funny. Like Travis lets her be jeweled is very funny. And I enjoy that a lot. Yeah. We don't know. And that's a person. And that's a person who Taylor Swift, who beyond the specific challenges of her life,

I think has a good head on her shoulders. And she chose to spend six years with that person. And I think that's probably meaningful. And I think that the reputation Taylor's version era is going to be upon us at some point. And I hope that we all remain able to hear the complexity in those songs, the genuine love in those songs. And don't say things or tweet things that we regret. Because I, yeah, maybe it clearly didn't work out. I just think, like, to your point,

point the lionization of this relationship. Like, let her just go. I mean, the guy finishes 50% of his sentences with the word baby or man, because he just doesn't have the poetry of language to, like, land sentences. It doesn't mean he's not intelligent. He's clearly intelligent guy. I'm just saying, like, this is something different. Let them get through. He's living rent free in Aaron Rogers's head right now. One million percent. That's enough to win me over. And by the way, it's fine that, you know, poetic language is not his thing. Like, she also can't blow up a linebacker. But, like, I just would say the best thing, I wish for the fan base to let them find

something that is grounding and normal over the course of the next couple of months, because as protective as they are of her, they make it unbelievably difficult for her to actually have a personal life. Yeah. That's, that's completely 100 million percent true. I will return to my prior statement that Poppera do not hang out outside Nobu downtown. That doesn't happen.

Sorry. But tell me, let's be direct on what you're saying. They called the paparazzi? I think, yes, I think people know where they're going to be. Yeah. And that's completely okay. Again, when the group chat is popping off, Taylor Swift is doing her job and doing her job well.

I think I believe that to my core. Yeah. And it has provided me with something that I have loved talking to friends about, loved talking to family about like this is good shit she's doing it and I think we have to be able to hold to even try to understand this woman

who we all care so much about we have to be able to hold some degree of artifice with something real being possible at the same time but that is why we're talking about this that's the fascinating part of this relationship the way that it started the way that they have

soft or hard laundering it, all of it. It is the story and the conundrum and the complexity. The way he holds her hands like a football. And the genius of Taylor Swift all wrapped into one in this moment. And that's why we're talking about it.

The other thing that we're going to be talking about, Nora, is 10 days from now, and really from the time that this pod gets released, one week, we have 1989. And it is, to this day, I think still, if I'm really being honest. It's my favorite Taylor Swift album. And it's here. Well, it's almost here. It's

coming. It feels like the promo for this album is very original era 1989, which is she's out in New York and there's a whole lot of press around her. And that's going to be what drives the interest here. But I guess what I want to ask you, I have my own things that I'm thinking about. But what are you looking forward to. I mean, I can't believe we're going to have what is effectively a new Taylor Swift album in a week. It's crazy. I mean, I'm looking forward to the vault. She has hyped these five songs up quite a bit, and I'm very excited to hear them. I am certainly on record.

Having said that the vault is sort of the make or break thing with the re-recordings to me. So that's, I will not go to the vault first, because I never do that. I will listen top to bottom. New Romantics, Taylor's version. You promise that you're going to go top to bottom? Yeah, I think so. Okay.

Look, if it's a style featuring Harry Styles' Taylor's version, like, sorry, I'm going to break that promise. But barring something like that, yeah, I like to hear the whole thing in order, and I like to kind of experience it chronologically with people. looking forward to all of that. And then this is a real test in terms of the fidelity of the production.

Yes. And these are Max Martin bangers. And I want to hear how they sound. And I want to hear how, you know, she and Shelbeck, I think,

got back in there and tried to recreate it. Those were the moments on Red Taylor's version that I didn't always think hit. And I didn't always think recaptured the same energy of the originals.

So this is a big test. It's a huge album. It's an album that, as you have pointed out, is responsible for big chunks of her streams. And the stakes are relatively high with this thing. So, you know, let's go. I can't wait to hear it. Yeah, it's really about the moments within the songs for me. It's the do you remember that she sings at the end of Out of the Woods? It's her voice on clean, and can she and Imogen Heap like recreate the sounds, the percussive sounds on that song, the synthetic percussion. It's the, I've been there a few times the way she sort of whisper sings across style. Can she, how does she sing the oh in the first verse? Like her voice doesn't totally sound the same. like the quivers on style, right?

And some of the other places. Like, I can't wait to hear your response to new romantics overall, right? But like, where she's like, this sick beat on Shake It Off. You could have been getting down to this. Is it going to feel the same? Will it sound like Starbucks lover on blank space?

Like, will she actually sing the phrase Starbucks? Like, how much time did they spend? All of these moments that I love. across that album, it's going to be fascinating to see. This will be the hardest one to date to replicate as we've talked about because so much of the sound is not something that her amazing touring band can just pick up their instruments and play. And it's the one where her voice really was, it was on its way to being where it is today. But look, her body was different at the time and just like any athlete, like your movements are different as your body changes.

Like, she was in a very different sort of headspace then. And she was in process. I wonder if we'll hear any of that on the vault. Yep. And she was very much in process of evolving vocally to where she is today. So the thing that we noticed most about Speak Now was her voice was almost jarringly good. It was almost too good to capture some of the energy from that. This album feels less angstated to me. Wait, can I stop you for a second and ask you a question about SpeakNow?

Of course. Of course. Is the Speak Now era getting erased? Yeah. Is she removing Speak... Yeah. No, I mean, not totally, but I think that's a valid argument.

I mean, we got one song at the ERA's tour until Speak Now got re-released, and then you got two. I mean... Do you think it's because it's so... like so many of those songs are sort of the airing of grievances? Yeah, I think it's just not where she is emotionally now.

It's just not what she is as an artist. But like... It's not getting erased. It's not getting erased. But look, what she's doing... I wouldn't judge the time between album releases as a signal that she wants to erase speak now. What we have spoken about on this podcast forever is it's made no sense to me why she didn't get these things out as fast as humanly possible if the goal was to reclaim her art from the people who she feels stolen.

If that's your end objective, then you record these things as fast as you can until you're sure that they're good enough and you put them out because that's what's going to undercut the owners of the copyright. So I wouldn't say that 1989 coming out now when she is, as Taffy's New York Times Magazine piece, tells us, basically a one woman media empire that doesn't need anything between her and her. She has a moment. She is aware enough to know that she's got to use it. While the fire is this hot,

it's inconceivable that it will stay this hot consistently for the next two years. So get it out. And I think that's what she's doing. On the other hand, Speak Now, still only as she released it, was a quarter of the songs that she played from folklore. Yeah. I wonder, look,

this is, the place that this is coming from is the Speak Now Stan, who was a sophomore in high school, and that album came out and cares about it a lot. Yeah. I just wonder if when you think about the fact that it wasn't a big part of the tour, that she did the speech about Dear John, which I think was a good thing. As we lead up to this album coming out, I would love for that kindness and that gentleness to extend onto our internet activities.

But does reflect a certain degree of this is not where I am anymore and wanting to make sure that people know that, I think the better than revenge lyric change that we've talked talked a lot about. I think she's very conscious of the fact that she has looped in so many very young new fans and an entire new generation of people who are paying attention to her. And I respect the hell out of her for being conscious of that and conscious of her messaging. But I wonder if she's a little reluctant to center that very personal album in which she shared her response and her catharsis and her processing of a lot of grievances. And sometimes in ways that came through, you know, there's the internalized misogyny

of the better than revenge thing. And some of the critiques of guys that she sort of wants to take back or just not. have people, you know, go and attack them on the internet and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there's, you know, this is, we've talked about this a bunch with the better than revenge thing. I just, I wish she didn't feel like she had to do that because I think it comes from a place of people not giving the benefit of the doubt or just allowing her to be a real person who can be petty and can be hurt and can hurt other people and have all of those complications. And that's what I love that record for.

And I, there's part of me that's like, okay, if you want to make sure that you are being an appropriate role model for really young people and painting a picture of the world, that's the right message, I respect that. And I want like, I respect if that's where this is coming from. I'm just not, I don't know. I'm uncomfortable with it because it matters a lot to me. I know. It matters a lot to you.

I'm also going to tell you objectively, they're not great stadium songs. Yeah, right. Yeah. But then again, neither was folklore. But she hadn't played folklore. So what is a great stadium song? Me could have slayed.

Fine. Electric touch plays. You can't believe that I have managed. to hijack our conversation. I can't. I can believe it. It's fine. You got it off your chest.

It's okay. It is one of the takeaways from that movie is just it's jarring how little attention. You understand debut because like she spends the entire concert trying to keep her hair from going back to debut, much less her sort of artistry from going back to debut. But it is noticeable that Speak Now is not something that she wanted to wallow in. It just wasn't. That's okay. She's about to wallow in 1989. We all are. Yeah, she is. And I mean, just say it out loud. I can't believe you didn't. I mean, yes, it's the songs from the vault. But I want to hear a song that Taylor Swift wrote called Slut exclamation point. I can't wait. I can't wait. It's incredible. This is the best thing that's ever happened.

And I don't know how to say that without being the creepy guy in the movie theater in Vegas. But like, it is what it is. I want to hear it. It's going to fucking rock. Here is the thing, though. I think I texted you this. What if it's sad? Like, it would be so hard to write the saddest shit you've ever heard.

I know. You and I had this exchange. It's going to fucking rock. It's going to have some kind of chorus that we're all going to be like, yeah, it's going to have a lot of people screaming slut at the top of their lungs. It's going to be so good. And it's going to be right in time for Halloween. There's going to be like, I'm just picturing, you know, the moment in mean girls where Katie has the burn book and she looks up and she's like, slut!

Do not trust her. She is a bugly slut. Like, that's the vibe. That's, I'm manifesting. I'm still, there's part of me that's like this is going to be about women and media and misogyny. and it's going to make me cry. But I would like to, I would like a sing-a-long chorus where we all yell a slut together. Nora, you're going to get it.

Because that's what Taylor Swift is all about. You're going to get it. And we're going to be back together in under two weeks to talk about this. Wow. I'm excited. All right. Until then. I wonder if I've seen the Ares movie again before we talk to each other.

Probably not. But maybe. Can't rule it out. Can't roll it out. All right now. All right now. This has been every single album. I'm Nora Pinciotti. As always, he is Nathan Hubbard. Our thanks to the fabulous Kaia McMullen for producing this episode.

And we will be back next week.