Every Single Album - Taylor Swift Wedding Watch. Plus, New Releases From Gracie Abrams, Phoebe Bridgers, and Charli XCX.

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

Nora and Nathan talk about all of the rumors swirling around Taylor Swift's impending wedding, including how many people are on the guest list (1:00) and whether or not there is a castle being built inside Madison Square Garden for the event (7:54). Then they talk about some new releases from Gracie Abrams (28:29), Phoebe Bridgers (41:20), and Charli XCX (51:40).Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every single album, I'm Nora Princeati and I'm joined as always by my friend Nathan Hubbard, who's already laughing. Oh, God. Which I think has something to do with the fact that moments before we began this recording, our intrepid producer, Kaya, referenced a report that's currently in TMZ and page six that they're building a castle in. Hyde Madison Square Garden this weekend. Oh, boy. How you doing, Nathan? All right, so like before we do this, because we're going to do a couple episodes on this,

just invariably, can I just first state how I feel about this for the record, okay? Do you want to define what this is? I'm thrilled to do with the fact that this is probably our last podcast before Taylor Swift is a married woman. I'm thrilled that Taylor Swift is marrying Travis Kelsey, and I'll tell you why. when this relationship started from the outside, I have zero.

Like, who cares what I think? But like, when it started, you and I both, they think we're a little bit skeptical. Because we didn't really know that much about Travis Kelsey outside of his, like, press conferences and a few things. And what I think is so wonderful about this relationship is that, you know, this is one of the biggest stars on the planet. And she deserves to be lifted up and celebrated. and she deserves to be with somebody who's not intimidated by her greatness and by the bigness of her life,

but who can actually cherish that and support it. And I'm just so happy that she's happy. That's how I feel about this, okay? Period. End of report. Sure. Cool. Now let's talk about the wedding.

What would you like to say? I mean, you were on this as far as I know. I heard from you the prospect of a Madison Square Garden wedding. Before I heard it from any other source, I mean, you know, rumored or as substantively reported, I didn't believe you at the time because it struck me as unbelievable that someone would choose that.

It appears to have been chosen. It's happening. Do you understand the reasons? In the pro column? There's a con column. But are you down with the pro column? So here's where I am. I'm actually shockingly, I'm not neutral on it,

but I'm a lot closer to neutral than I think most people would guess and most people are themselves on the idea of Madison Square Garden wedding. The thing that I actually find goofiest of all is the idea of having a thousand person wedding. I don't really think that a good thousand-person wedding exists. That and that's just me and to each their own. But so for me, it's almost like once you're having a thousand-person wedding, I don't really care, have it at Madison Square Garden that seems like is, like, I don't,

for instance, I don't totally buy the idea that there's nowhere that they could have a wedding with privacy. Nowhere else that they could have a wedding with privacy. I kind of, I'm more sympathetic to the idea that there's nowhere else, or there's very few other places that they could have a thousand person wedding with privacy. I just like, my answer would then be have a 200 person wedding. But it's hard. Just take away the bigness of her life and think about how close she got based on what

we saw in that documentary to hundreds of people on that tour, all of whom are definitely not invited. But between her family, all of the business stuff that she's got in her life, just put that aside for a second. Travis Kelsey has played football for over a decade with 50-plus man teams that build a bond of brotherhood and that have been through, you know, almost literal athletic wars together. Like he's got a lot of people just in his own orbit that make for a lot of people that you have to pick and choose. And when you've got a team, who do you leave out? Who do you bring in? I will say that that's not my.

experience with professional football teams. In position units and sometimes like an offense will be close or a defense will be close, those teams are big enough that many players do not know some of the people in their locker room. They don't know them very well. They maybe know their name. They do not spend time together. But 15 years into an NFL career, he knows a lot of people.

And so he's been close to a lot of people. he's in Kansas City where he's put in an enormous amount of work into the community. He knows those people. Now, the question that you're asking is, where do you draw the line? And I don't think there is a line to draw at the 200 people or 160 or 180 people that you had at your wedding. I don't think they can draw that. I think that's artificial. I don't think they need to do that.

For them, it was going to be 30. $250 or $300. But I think it's too hard. Or at that point, you have to go the last. other way and you have to have 30. But that's what I'm saying. I think they could do a 30-person wedding with just their family and, you know, two people on each side of the aisle, or they got to go big because if they cut it at 250, does Lucian Grange, the head of Universal Music, get an invite? Does the guys at AEG who've run or touring forever Louis Messina, does he get an invite?

does Travis's position coach for however many years get an invite? Those are the kinds of artificial cuts that they have to make if they don't go big. And I don't think there's anything in between. I don't think the truck drivers on the tour are getting an invite. But I do think the dancers are probably getting, like, do you think Cam's going to be there? Yeah, I would assume, yes. 100%. But like once you go start making that list with everything that they go,

how about the people at Disney that she's close with? Does Bob Eiger get an invite? Right, this is what I'm talking about, Nathan. We've flown the coop here. Does Bob Eiger get an... Like, we're designing this wedding around the need to invite Bob Eiger. And I just... They're going to have a whole life.

...have a hard time taking that seriously. They're going to have a whole... Really? Because I think that from their perspective... I mean, we don't know what the relationship is between her and Bob Eager, but I'll tell you this. She's very close with people, some people... some people at Universal Music, for sure. I'm sure that the Lippmans, who are the heads of Republic Records,

who she's signed to now, definitely getting an invite. But then you probably ought to also got to invite Lucian. You got to invite the head of the publisher, Jody Gerson, you probably got to invite. You got to invite, like, all these people who she has in that, or it just, the list gets so long when you live a life that is that big. So I don't blame her. I think it was going to be too hard to make arbitrary decisions to get. get down to a list of 250. Again, I'm with you. She could have done 30 to 50. They could have done

30 to 50. By the way, like, I'm not saying she should have a 200-person wedding. That's that- I love that we're in this. But I think it was one way or the other. Right. I think then you choose 30. I think it is the only rational choice. Well, you know what? We got the set of some giant fucking castle and some gardens getting moved into Madison Square Garden right now, it sounds like, it's going to be awesome. They're going to turn it into some kind of fun-ass thing. My form of coping with this had been that I had convinced myself that they were going to throw basically like... They're going to low...

No, that they were going to throw basically like a big private concert, like big private one-day music festival, right? And like she was going to call in all these favors and have amazing performers. And if you're going to like a thousand-person thing, that was the vision of it where I was like, okay, that would actually be, that would be fun and cool to go to. And if a lot of people, the main thing that they're getting out of this is being able to say that they were invited and they were there, like, they can have that and it's still a cool experience and there's something communal about it, even though they're not, like, just your opportunities for interacting are so limited. Yeah. And then she put a castle inside the garden.

Oh, my God. I think it's awesome. I would just ask this. wait, reserve judgment because there's a lot of stuff that's, you know, buzzing around, and this is all based on people are seeing set pieces loaded into the garden and find. You know, the Erez tour was pretty fucking great.

So generally speaking, when it comes to things like visual display, I trust Taylor Swift and is it going to be tacky? Maybe, but also, like, may I remind you? And I say this, like, not in a joking way at all. this is probably one of the five most death-threaded Americans that exist. And so part of doing this in Madison Square Garden is because it is a bubble of safety where no drones are going to come in and nobody's going to infiltrate the security and try to blow up like they did in Austria.

There's going to be safety. And I think she lives in a world in which she's not always safe. And so creating a bubble environment, yes, maybe it's going to be the fucking Truman's but where she can, in a large environment with people who she has asked to give her their trust. For just a couple days, put your phone in an envelope. Don't tell anybody about the details of this. And it looks like for the most part, they have by and large obliged so that she can just feel safe. And I will give them credit for that.

It is impressive how little of this has gone around. Yes. And so people are actually giving her that trust. so that she can say there are so many human beings in her life that she can't trust because they want something from her. Well, apparently not. Well, no, but that's what's actually sort of beautiful about this. And so if she is constructing basically a parallel planet for two days where she can just go be safe and be a normal wealthy human that has a castle, and if that is her dream, it probably isn't her dream. but it's probably the best that she can make it

under the circumstances of her current life, which net net, she will accept happily because her life is great and it's big and it comes with downsides and all these things. But this is probably in her mind the best that she can do. So great. Now, look, I will say that I had almost... The castle threw me over the edge.

I was fine. I was okay. You don't know what? what the castle is. But what if it's like an awesome-ass food station? She's got 10 chefs making shit. Or, you know, what if Iger sent some props from Disney? Maybe that's why Iger's in writing. You're asking me to get on board because Taylor Swift is getting married at a facsimile Disney World inside Madison Square Garden. Nathan, this is my nightmare. Well, she's got plenty of songs about castles. It's going to be okay. Like this is where I just want you to trust. Trust that, because by the way, a lot of the press,

their subtle reason for publishing all of this detail is to find the criticism and to make you go, ah, it's tacky. Oh, that influence of Travis, you got a little too much Cleveland Heights in this fucking part of it. Or, oh, she's, you know, she's a little too just, you know, pulled apart from reality. She's like the president of the United States. She doesn't know the price of milk, right? That kind of thing is what I'm sensing from some of the crescendoing coverage of this. Well, yeah, there are a few, it's funny, there are a few different threads of it.

I do think that from it, you know, you have to start from a baseline, and I need us to live in a shared reality where Madison Square Garden is not many people's idea of a dream wedding venue. Yes, yes. My only case is that she has a limited number of places where she can do that and be safe. Yes. Totally. That's all. Totally. This isn't where she dreamed to have her wedding when she was a kid.

Totally. But at the tree farm, people can fly fucking drones in there, man. Yeah. Clusters and storms of drones. Sure. Now, I will say there are people like Zendaya and Tom Holland. Not even remotely in the same. celebrity parallel universe.

They're not the same, but I don't know if, I don't know if I agree with they're not remotely anywhere close, particularly as the two of them, you know, their relationship is highly publicized. They've been on press tours, both of them one way or another, for the last couple of years, basically.

People didn't even know they got married. Yeah, but they're not as big, they're not even as close to, as popular, a couple. This is like if Leo Messi got divorced and then got married to Kim Kardashian. Yeah, I don't quite know how to quantify the degrees. I mean, it's still heavily interesting to fans, creepy people out there, the tabloids, the regular press. I would assume that that event was much smaller, which again, like, it's easier to hide and protect something that's at a different scale.

And so again, like, you know, Duelipa is not as famous as Taylor Swift. No. But she is highly. It's not the same level. Yeah, but being down a level, I'm not sure makes it a complete different conversation. There are major security concerns. There are major publicity concerns. And you saw absolutely everything from that wedding that she wanted you to see.

and absolutely nothing that she didn't. Right. I'm not convinced it's impossible. I'm not. Taylor Swift does a lot of stuff, including a lot of stuff with people that nobody sees. It's a different conversation from,

I want to have a thousand people and I want to just feel like all of this is a fortress. And I think that's fine. It's not like, to me, I don't get it on the balance of what you have to do in order to have that,

but if that's what she wants, fine. I do think that there is a particular type of cope going around where, like, there are Swifty accounts online making AI renderings of, like, vines hanging from the Jumbotron. Right. Where one must get a grip. And because also, like, once we're having a conversation that's like, well, they could cover the Jumbotron in fabric, I do feel that we are sort of getting away from it. Well, let me ask you this then. Do you think we are going to see any photographs from the inside or the ceremony of her wedding?

Or is part of the point of this that a thousand people are going to see this and nobody else? Yeah, no, I think we'll see it. You do? I'm finding this to, I think, again, they should do whatever they want to do. Like the rock and all thing to do would be to not see it. I completely agree. Lock up phones and there's no footage except what she has and she owns and she controls. I completely agree.

I do think that we will see photos. I hope I'm wrong. I really think that that would be very cool. And... I mean, she'll post something in a wedding dress for crying out loud. Well, then you're going to see it. Yeah, yeah, but I just mean... Like, I don't begrudge her that.

Like, it's fun to share. Yeah. Like, Doa did. We don't know what the ceremony looked like at Doa's thing. Right. Right. Right. No, I think she...

I think she... She's not posting it. 10-minute wedding video. It was three minutes. And everybody loved it. I loved it. No, I think that she had a really nice midpoint of, there were certain parts of it that everybody saw and were like heavily consumed. And she is.

Look, no one also, like, here's the other piece of it. We're working this out for you. This is so great. I love it so much. No one in their right mind was expecting Taylor Swift to have dual. Leapah's wedding. They represent different things in culture, and in an odd way, the dual leapa version, I think, has become more aspirational to more people.

Taylor's is a different weird alchemy where, like, there's part of me that Galaxy brains this and almost feels like the fact that this is not, like... This is being hosted by Taylor Swift, Inc. instead of Taylor Swift. Yeah. And the fact that it's not, it doesn't make you seethe with jealousy, that there's like a galaxy brain thing about like this. Maybe she knows what she's doing. This is why she is who she is.

Because sometimes I think that when she wears a weird outfit, that's what I think. It's like if she's too perfect, it couldn't. If Taylor Swift was just wearing the nice basics that I would like, like to see her in. Yeah. It would become too like, oh, quiet luxury. She's better than everybody. Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And if she just had like a nice, elegant wedding, maybe it would be the same thing. I don't know. She's a genius. She is operating on levels far above what my P-Brain can handle. I just can't handle the castle, Nathan. I can't handle the castle. Give it a week. We're going to do a follow-up podcast that's going to answer all of these

that is an instant reaction, I'm sure. Just trust that the designers... Listen, if you told me that the start of the eras tour, some guys were going to walk out with these giant... Who's the artist that draws the pants, the vaginas? Georgia O'Keefe. Georgia O'Keefe-looking parachute things that were going to go up and down

and that it was going to be like some Miss American Kana was going to open the show for fuck's sake, I'd have been like, oh my God, this is going to be a nightmare. But guess what? It's awesome. And she did it right. And she does a little snippet and then bang, it's into Cruel Summer. And they fucking get it right.

So I think that they're going to get this right. I do think that this is going to be the question, though. How much of this is Taylor and Travis? And how much of this is Taylor and Travis, comma, incorporated? And let's see because this is the in like these two things are sort of as as they're merging their lives. The the business slash personal piece is part of what has brought them together. And it's going to be sort of inextricably intertwined forever. And one of the things that people are going to have to do is absorb and accept

that that's part of them. Like they are always an enterprise. When the new song comes out, we are immediately posting before, sometimes before we even post details about the song, we're posting about the multiple versions. Like it's, there is always the business angle,

and it is part of the drive that has made her great, and it seems to be part of the drive that is going to make him successful after his athletic career. And I think that's a thing that they have in common and that draws them together, one of many. I feel like you're telling me that it's okay. You don't have to like it.

You don't have to like it. I think it's too fucking hard to go through a list of a thousand people and cut it down to 250. I think that's what it is because you don't, they have the same number, same kinds of connections with about 950 people on this list. And they've got close intimate connections with 50. But like...

Well, then it's the 50. because you don't talk to a, you don't keep up in a meaningful way with a thousand people. You don't. You just don't. Nobody does. It's impossible. I mean, it's like Abigail is going to be at this wedding no matter what. Abigail is one person.

Let's go through. There is one Abigail. There's not an army of 200 Abigail's that needs seven tables to themselves. Who from the Kansas City Chiefs is going to be there? Pat Mahomes. Pat Mahomes. Yeah. Mahomes, Brittany. Andy Reid, who introduced them or had some role in...

Definitely. And I think he's... Oh, God. Clark Hunt. And the girls who got a nice gift from Taylor and who have made sure that she's safe in that stadium? She does not have a meaningful relationship with those people. Come on. Come on. Clark Hunt thinks he does.

I'm sure. Clark Hunt's daughters think they do. Okay. At a certain point, what is the point? point. Like, what is the point of being her, of having the resources that she has? If you can't tell Clark Hunt that respectfully, it's not about him. Do you think they're going to publish this list? Like, they publish, like, major... I mean, I'm just not sure they're going to... There's going to be a forum to sort of track who gets in, right? It's not, like, going to be the red carpet of the Golden Globes or something. Well, although, did you see that there was... They put out a red carpet and then they took it back up? Because they put it, like, I'm not... I'm not sure we can rule that out. I do think that that is an interesting thing about the picture is because I don't think that you have a thousand people if it's not about making it not a C&B seen like necessarily within the walls of the event. But if it's if it's not to some extent about it's going to mean a lot to X, Y, and Z folks to be able to say, hey, I was invited to the wedding.

it's a little incongruous with then we're not going to show any photos and then presumably we would ask other people not to show any photos. I don't know, man. Congratulations to the happy couple. It's a wonderful expression of where we are in the world. It's an expression of what it means to be like Uber famous. It's an expression of, and it may be terrible.

There may be some things about that it's terrible. It may be income and quality. Yeah, I think it's an expression of those things. I'm not sure I think it's a universally wonderful one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. No, I mean, it's a fitting, not wonderful necessarily. It is fitting. And it's going to tell us a lot about where we are as a society and a culture right now. And also, like, what it means to be famous and the things that they have to do. We're going to learn a ton of the next week. I can't wait. This is just great. Where we are as a culture is in a bouncy castle in Midtown. Oh, I mean, if it's a bouncy castle, you know who picked that. She loves a bouncy castle. She's had a bouncy castle at the Fourth of July parties. Well, so... The Fourth of July parties, by the way, always looked fun.

Always looked genuinely fun. So if we got a bouncy castle in there, I'm sure that was a Travis, like Travis insisted on the bouncy castle, for sure. Like, they're going to make it fun. It's going to be terrific. Just go with it. Tacky is in the eye of the beholder.

Okay. Let's move on. That's what I'm saying for now. Let's just see where we get. That's as optimistic a pitch as I can have on it. I'll ask you one more thing before we. I'm choosing to trust the creativity of Taylor and her team. This is going to be great.

Go ahead. I'll ask you one more thing before we switch topics. You are 100, 100 million percent confident that this is happening. There is no chance in your mind that this is somehow a red herring. I one million percent hope it is some kind of like James Bond distraction. Yes, I do. Be amazing. I am 100 percent certain that this is happening.

Got it. I just wanted to check. I've been wrong before when I've been 100% certain, but that's how I feel, yes. I mean, it seems inconceivable that this could all be a plant. This would be an incredibly expensive ruse to close Madison Square Garden and apply for these permits and do the whole thing. Like, this would cost you.

I also, like, I'm not particularly sympathetic to the criticism that it's unfair or selfish to close down the streets. No, everybody does that. Fucking depends, does it when they launch something in Times Square. Yeah. It happens all the time in New York. To be a New Yorker is occasionally to be inconvenienced. And that's part of the bargain we make to live in a place where a lot of cool stuff happens.

I also feel like, look, like, I don't know that I love that it seems a big, portion of it is going to go to James Dolan. But say what you want about Taylor Swift. Historically, one thing she does is pay people who help her create the things that she cares about exceptionally well. So whether it is for... Job creator, Taylor Swift. Castle, bouncy or otherwise.

And for a Taylor and Travis Inc. convention or something really meaningful and beautiful, I think that she probably is on the whole. doing something that's going to be good for a bunch of people who are going to staff that event and help create the vision and do all of that. And like, if, if history is any guide, she compensates those people more than fairly. So, like, I don't really know why, like, all of a sudden there are these, these hordes of people online desperate to be in Midtown on a summer Friday. And I just, I'm, I don't relate. Oh, and the heat dome. No, get out of the heat dome. You weren't going to be there. You weren't, you weren't going to the Macy.

It's fine. No, don't do it. If you're taking Amtrak from Boston from the north, get off at Stanford and get on Metro North because it's nicer to end up at Grand Central anyway. Just my two cents. Anyway. Is she or are they going to legally change their names?

Name or names? No. They won't be the Kelsey's or the Swift Kelsey's. I mean, maybe she'll do like, What if Travis shows up in an 87 jersey that says Swift dash Kelsey in August? That would be so cool. It will be the single highest selling piece of merchandise in the history of the NFL. It would be amazing.

I would buy seven of them. But I'm just saying, this is a possibility. And it is a very commercial thing. You're thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. I find it doubtful. I mean, I don't know what they'll do in their personal lives. Remember who told you in April that there was going to be a wedding at Madison Square Garden?

That would be wild. That would be truly wild. 87 Swift dash Kelsey. Let's fucking go. It would be amazing. I'd forgive seven castles for that. All right. Let's talk about some new releases.

We have Phoebe, we have Gracie, and we have Charlie. Where do you want to start? Let's talk about Gracie first. Okay. And I want to talk about Gracie first because I'm really am interested, I've been thinking all week, excited to hear what you think of this song.

Look at My Life, which is the second single from Daughter from Hell, which is going to be out July 17th. Yeah, that's going to be the first album that we actually get of this trio. What did you think? So let's talk about just the song as a song. I quite like it. I mean, to me, it's like a classic Gracie. It's propulsive. It kind of, you have the feeling.

of just like, the best Gracie Abrams songs always make me feel like I'm like a golden retriever sticking my head out of a car window. Like you just, you sort of feel the breeze in your hair and you move forward and there's something sort of exhilarating about it. And I think it's, I think it's classic from that perspective. The thing that it,

the sort of threat of intrigue I have, both with this song, also with the lead single. And also just with some of the marketing of this album is that she seems to be suggesting an angst and a messiness that I want to understand more about. There are a couple glancing references to sort of self-medication in these first two songs. Otherwise, she seems mostly to be talking about, you know, youthful social anxiety. and like a loose past as a slightly rebellious teenager. Light drugs.

Yeah. And packaging that as daughter from hell. Yeah. Yeah. I want to know more. I'm not against. I'm fascinated. She had a great answer about nepotism.

I had a safety net and that allowed me the ability to experiment and to concentrate. and I had like the gift of time to dedicate to doing this thing I loved. I wasn't growing up afraid financially, and that's like the biggest deal. Sure. That I thought was both self-aware but also humble. And I was impressed with the way that she talked about that. Well, but that's what I'm talking about, isn't it? Every answer she gives is impressive.

Well. She's like relentlessly charged. She seems to be friends with everybody. She's friends with Taylor and Olivia. Yeah. She's like self-effacing. She can, I mean, she can pull off a bob. There's like this, there's, you know, and to some extent that's what the song is about, right?

Like, it's not entirely what it looks like. Yeah. I'm not sure I'm convinced it's not pretty good to be Gracie Abrams. Well, and I think that's what she's spoken to outside of this. that this isn't as much of a negative song as it comes off. I mean, but oh well, look at my life. Bet you can't tell, but it's kind of a bad time. By the way, long story short, it was a bad time.

And I fell from the pedestal, right down the rabbit hole. Long story short, it was a bad time. Is what that line makes me think of every time I hear it. Sure. Sure. there's, and I wonder if it's just the earworm got her. But I, I sort of, you're right that it's kind of a classic Gracie song. And I actually think it's pretty good. And I think what's kind of cool about this album rollout and the way that she's

letting people more in to know her and she's head on taking on the NEPO stuff and just like parrying it away, like a gifted politician almost, is like, I don't know that this is a transcendent hit, but when you put it in context with... Although I will say that it's the biggest song of the three that we're going to talk about so far. Yep. And I think that when you put it next to hit the wall...

I've said this before, and I'm going to say it again, I think Gracie Abrams' songs are like a rosetta stone for how 20-somethings speak and think and feel. And that's what this is to me. When you put this together with Hit the Wall, it's like, whoa, we've got a real rich text that's going to roll out that's going to teach us about this moment in time and this generation of 20-somethings. And she is relatable. She is beautiful without being hated. People think that she's their best friend.

She's a, you know, in all these ways, she just is sort of the perfect blend of. She can be oddly controversial in some ways. Yeah, well, I think people be like, what's an example? Like, smoking? I'll give you a serious example and I'll give you a joking example. The unsurious example is the I blocked Gracie Abrams stuff. Is the idea that like, is the internet joke that if you're mad about something that has nothing to do with Gracie Abrams, you should take it out on Gracie Abrams because she has everything.

She's in on the joke. Mostly. I thought she had an interesting answer about that in the podcast interview. Okay. I have a suspicion that people who either enjoy or just spend their time that way on the internet, the likelihood of them not getting support elsewhere is quite high. Where she was like, I feel really sad for everyone. Like, internet cruelty is so widespread.

See, I was a little, I tilted my head at that. little bit. It's taking a meme mighty seriously. Well, what's the serious example? The serious example is, I think, just the idea that, like, her, the scale of her success for someone who doesn't have a super wide range is a criticism that I think is fair. I love the songs. But that's, that's what people are missing. Like, I get it. I was in a cab. Do you think there's more of a range than she's given for it for that? No. I, well, no. but I think what this is is not the Beatles.

It's a Rosetta Stone for how 20-somethings, it's a reflection of what 20-somethings think and feel and talk like. That's what it is. I'm with you there. I'm with you there. And I think some of those lines

when they hit, they just absolutely hit. And I think got what I wanted. It doesn't sit, right? Like, that's played on a loop in my head. Yeah. I think you have to hand it to her. I just think that she...

I just got to the big shot to the party. with the big shots and the Barbies. It's great. Just got to the party with the big shots and the Barbies. Yes. It is interesting to see her position herself

as an outsider in that context. At what point does Gracie Abrams not become a big shot in a Barbie? Yeah. I think that's fair. It's just her experience. I find that there's something pretty charming about it. I just find it occasionally a little indecipherable.

Like I think actually the idea that she's writing this album propelled by a certain type of angst that I think is really relatable where like you're young and maybe it isn't that deep, but you feel it deeply anyway. And it's real to you. It's not about life and death stakes. It's about just wondering how to be who you think you are

and think you want to be and all of those experiences of getting a little bit older and figuring out what your life actually looks like, like that she's kind of applying this patina to it. I find that to be a nice idea. I'm just not sure that that's what it is to her, and I've found myself through these two songs. Again, when, because she, there's those lines about party with the Big Shot and the Barbies.

and then it's somebody offers her a pill and she thinks about taking a handful. He thinks that I should take one but raise him to the whole bunch. And so then you just... No, but then she goes, I'm kidding. God, he thinks I'm stupid. Well, right, but I think that that's the...

That's... And it's working because it's drawing me in because I'm going, are you kidding? Like, because there's a suggestion that maybe she's not kidding, but then she pulls back, at the last second. And that dynamic around someone who, again,

I think presents outwardly as very nice and very polished. Yeah. And... She's got some Jackie O. in her. Yeah, she's really graceful. Yeah. She's a really, really graceful person

who has been telling us through this rollout so far that there's a messiness beneath the surface that we're not aware of. and I wonder how that will shake out by the end of this album. Let's see. I think the daughter from hell thing is maybe going to be an ode to her mother more than anything. And I think we'll understand it more than we get the whole record. But it makes me excited for the record.

But I do think that, again, the prism for this is not like, is this like a transcendent talent? She is a conduit to help us understand a generation. in particular of young women. And I think it's a very important, like, she fits into sort of musical history in that way for me. And I know that that has me letting her off the hook

on whether or not the music is the best thing since sliced bread and worthy of the like fandom. I'll try to be as agnostic and, you know, honest about how I feel about that. I don't, I will say this. I'm pretty impressed melodically

with what I've heard in the first two songs. Me too. I like them both. Yeah. And it's, if I had a complaint about the Gracie stuff, I think people would say, yeah, it starts to all sound the same. These are homable melodies, and I'm very optimistic about this album. Yeah, look, I think that's a con... In some ways, I think that's going to be a conversation for the next album. Because first of all, I think she's got two solid songs here already.

Yeah. I think she's got a lot of wind at her sales. I think this is probably going to go pretty well. Yeah, when you get to album three, at a certain point, you have to find the next move. And I think that'll be an interesting moment for her. But I really enjoy, I've really enjoyed what I've heard so far. I also will say that for this song,

I'd mentioned when we talked about the lead single, that she'd slipped back a little bit into that whispery thing. And I feel that on look at my life, all of the words come through crisply and clearly. Yes, that's true. A new spiral every night. Yes. She's enunciating. And thank goodness for that.

You get to pick. Do we do Phoebe or do we do Charlie next? Let's do Phoebe. Let's do Phoebe. Lost Boys from Lost Weekend, which is out August 14th. First Phoebe Bridgers in four years. I found this song to be. evidentiary of both the pros and cons of going away for that long.

One of the pros is that the second I heard her voice, I burst into tears. Yeah. It's just like a, it's just a warm blanket of a friend. Yeah, it's a national treasure. We are lucky to be alive in the time of Phoebe Bridgers and lucky to have her back. The difference between her speaking voice and her singing voice is one of the craziest dichotomies ever. It's really shocking.

It needs to be studied. Most of my nightmares are like, I get on stage and I forget all my songs, which is so embarrassing, actually, that that's like a deep fear. You know, there's just that moment where she, it like pierces through and it's so much more like haunting and ghostlike and then you hear her when she's talking and it's nothing like that at all, but it just, it... It's like if loneliness had a voice. If loneliness could sing.

That's what I feel anytime I... Like, insecurity could sing. I don't... They're just like this inner monologue that it just feels so safe and relatable. And yet so unattainable in its beauty. Like, you can't sing like that. Only Phoebe can sing like this. Only Phoebe can sing like that.

But it just projects a range of common emotion from your inside voice into something an angel would project. Now I'll say the flip side of... Yeah. The built-up expectations over the course of a four-year absence, right? Is I press play.

I'm immediately in my feelings that way. I'm immediately just like almost stunned by the experience of having Phoebe Bridgers back in my headphones. And that was my emotional high, you know? Yep. And the song didn't take me to another place besides that. I think that's totally fair.

Yeah. Did you know going in that Bo Burnham was credited as a writer and that Lucy Dacchus and Julian were singing on it? I didn't know about Bo. I knew that the boys were doing harmony. So I'm going to posit something. I suspect that this is going to be, for most people, their least favorite song on the album.

And I think that part of what this was was a reintroduction to Phoebe. If you notice on the outro, the horn section, by the way, did you know that Jack, I mean, did you know Jack had produced it when you listened to it the first time? Yes, I did know that. Okay. The horn section on that outro is very,

very, very similar to the horn section at the end of the end of the end. No, the end. Okay. Okay. And which is the last song on Punisher. So the last time we heard her, there is a horn section that is pretty much parallel to what you're hearing here. And I think that that may well have been intentional. I'd be stunned if it wasn't. It's, it's, I know the end. I keep calling at the end. But it's, I know the end. Yes. And there is a pivot point on this song where she goes, one, two, three, rap. One, two, three.

That will be a moment live that's not that different than the death scream and I know the end that picks up. Now, I know the end is a much more whipsawing anthemic thing than I think this song is. And if you saw the video of this song, like the fact that right at the end it clicks, over to the like video game interaction and she's the nymph. Like it's just, it's sort of world building for me.

Yeah, the video is awesome and super fun. I think this is just like, I think it is intentionally connected to I know the end. And it's trying to just bridge that gap and that what you get from here is going to move you more. I agree. I think the more that you listen to this song, the more that it grows on you. And that's a phenomenon that I have. had with a lot of Punisher. I mean, Garden song, the first time I heard it,

I was like, my knees buckled. I got taller. See our reflection in the water. Scott Street, which was not on Punisher, obviously, but, like, Phoebe can write songs that grab you by the throat the first time, and I think there are going to be some on this album. This is not that one that you just have to go back to

and replay and replay and replay. I do think this was intended to be a pallet cleanser. I'm inclined to agree, for no reason other than I just, in Phoebe Bridgers, I trust. And again, I don't mind this song. I do think that the callback to I Know the End is intentional and that's cool.

It also made me feel like the song ends up suffering by comparison a little bit because I just find it. Like that is a song that has so much id. And this one either has less or it's a little harder to locate. You know, I think what she's seeing

about here is an interesting question. Like, who do you think the lost boys are? Her generation. I mean, she's dating Bo Burnham, right? I mean, the two of them together, arguably, made one of the top five pieces of video and audio content of the 2020s. Right.

And here they are, I don't know, I think, and they've been social critics. Defining pandemic era superstars. Full stop. So that's what I think. But you tell me, who do you think the Lost Boys are? Yeah, I think that's probably right. You know, the sort of...

Do you think it's after the movie? With Kieford Sutherland and Jason Patrick and Corey Heim? I don't think that's what it is. I think the best interpretation is, yeah, this kind of hyper-internet generation... that has a warped, you know, at least I guess to hear Phoebe tell it, has a warped sense of what is real life and what is not. Like the way that living a life online blurs your ability to tell what is real and what is not. Yeah.

And, you know, less we forget that Phoebe herself was an original, shit poster in a lot of ways. Right. And now is pretty much offline from what I can tell. I think that in conjunction with the stuff that she's done around having all the phones go away for the concerts. Like, it's an interesting, I'd like to hear from her on that more. Like, it's an interesting perspective. It's not a lyrically deep text.

No. And I think that, again, to me as part of the purpose, it's like, I don't know. Gracie called her one of the writers of her generation. By Phoebe Bridger's standards, it's not a lyrically deep text. Correct. There was one review. I think it might have been in, it might have been the stereo gum review that was like, there are plenty of artists who go entire careers without a bar like, I don't feel bad,

but I'm sorry. Right. It's just that Phoebe Bridgers has entire songs full of those lines. And like that really resonated with me. Yep. That is, I think, sort of what's going on. But I, and it's, and, you know, she is writing from that classic Phoebe perspective where she's talking to someone she had a past experience with directly and using these very specific references and anecdotes and details. And you're let in, but you're not, you don't know the whole story.

And so again, like it intentionally or not, I think holds itself up. to the great, great Phoebe Bridger's songs, while probably in reality being a palette cleanser, album opener, anthemic sing-along at a point when she knows that she does have to, you know, she's filling these huge spaces and people will be able to sing that chorus and it'll work in those contexts.

And so I bet it's actually a more successful song that I ended up thinking it, feeling like it was after my first listen, just because I think it has a different purpose, as you were saying. Well, the voice alone... And again, it still made me cry. Yeah. I mean, the voice alone made me excited for the album, and I'm not sure that it tipped its hand on what is still to come.

But I'm with you, that it's just so... great to have her back in our lives. Let's talk about Charlie. I got to tell you, I'm digging it. I am too. It's fucking, I don't know why. I don't feel like anybody else is, but I am. Oh, I think people are going to be all over this. It's terrific. Maybe I fuck your dad. Yeah, wink wink wink is great. And in the right settings, I mean, the, the, the death of the dance, I think this is like, it's not Brat,

it's different than Brat, but it has all of the attitude of Brat, the songs that we've heard, rock music, this one, like it has all of the attitude of Brat, but the color palette is different, and even the materials of this art are different.

You remember Brat was this constrained, only a select number of sounds and sort of digital, highly electronic music that only went so far, this she's doing and she tipped her hat which is there's a lot of guitar-driven stuff but it's still loopy

it's still electronic-ish it's still really short spurts of ideas she's self-deprecating yeah and I'm fine with it they're ideas and in the TikTok world I love that she's like

TikTok-eyzed her shit and she's not overthinking these ideas and when they're done they're done and she's moving on. And it makes me go back. Like, I'm into wink wink, wink. And it's a single note chorus. Yeah. I'm into it too. I'd take a third minute. I'd take a bridge. I'd take just like a little bit more. I think we all need to be ready for this entire project to come and go and be cool. But for her to never reveal her hand of how much of this. is a bit and how much of this is serious.

I think that in itself is kind of a fun thing. But that's Charlie X-E-X. Yeah, but I mean, look, like, a lot of what was great about Brat was that she's still Charlie, but she wrote from a pretty confessional place in a pretty, it's a deeply earnest album in a lot of ways, and this is not. And... Well, is the whole album wink-wink, wink, basically?

Yes. Is that the point of... of the whole album. Each one of the songs that we've heard so far I think certainly qualifies. I do too. This one, by the way,

I think is the most listenable. This is the most... I think they're all. They actually all are, but this one feels to me like it fits most seamlessly into

playlists and stuff you listen to in the car and hanging out and it kind of sounds a little bit like it belongs on a movie soundtrack from like 2006. And if you know me, you know that that is a high compliment. Maybe I fucked your dad. I used to lick criminal stories in the summer.

Maybe I fucked your dad. It's really funny. It's really funny. It's just really, really funny. It's the second line in a song. It's just great. At this point, she's almost, yeah, I think it's like a social experiment Charlie X-E-X is at this point.

Like, how far will you go with me and still think that I'm underground and cool? And she really, like, she just seems unburdened. She just seems to be making, like, making stuff. Smoking shit with Madonna at the fashion show, like, she's just in kind of give zero fucks mode. And that is a wonderful place to be as an artist. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's, you really feel the creativity from her. I think. Like, you just get, I feel the sort of palpable sense of a person in a studio or just having a conversation and just being like, let's try this. I want to do this. I have this idea. I want the music video to look like this. I want this color palette.

Like those creative impulses come through so sharply from her. And it is one of the things that makes her to me very exciting. And that is from music, fashion film out July 24, which is a week after the Gracie Abrams album, and I guess three weeks before Phoebe's Lost Boys or Lost Weekend. We got some stuff coming up. We got some stuff coming up. And I do think that some of this stuff is going to start to see. Well, we'll see.

We need to measure how much of this stuff starts to seep into culture. We get the Fourth of July. like, what are people playing at these parties? How much of it actually makes its way into what people are listening to personally? Does it shape their experiences over the next couple of months? It's going to be very interesting. These are fun, intriguing entries. They are not grab you by the throat.

This is something that is going to affect pop music for a while, 2024 entries yet. Except I think the Olivia Rudd. Rodrigo thing is breaking through. Well, what I was going to say when you said, we got to see which what, which of these songs are getting played and what's breaking through. I was going to say,

people are playing stupid silly song quite a bit. People are playing stupid song quite a bit. People are playing maggots for brains quite a bit. And in fact, Charlie posted about it. People are in love with purple. People are playing these songs. And yeah, the legend

of Olivia, I think, is building very quietly. And when it comes out of this weekend, I think when you check the streaming, you're going to know who the biggest pop star who didn't get married this weekend is. Said it before, I'll say it again. Congratulations to the happy couple. We wish them very well. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Princeati. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kaya McMullen for producing this episode and to you for listening. We'll talk to you next week.