Every Single Album - The Best (and Worst) of the Hannah Montana Discography | Every Single Album: Miley Cyrus

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

To kick off their Miley Cyrus series, Nora and Nathan are of course getting started with Hannah Montana. They cover all of the music Cyrus released up to her album 'Breakout' in 2008, including 'Hannah Montana,' 'Hannah Montana 2,' 'Meet Miley Cyrus,' and 'Hannah Montana The Movie.' First, they talk about Cyrus's origins on the show 'Hannah Montana' and how that later shaped her career (1:00), the power of her voice from a young age, showcased on songs like "The Climb" (30:12), and the songs that foreshadowed the rock music she would release at a later time (1:05:16). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe show. That's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the playoffs are coming up. And now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify. or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast. Let's go. Hello and welcome to every single album,

Miley Cyrus. I'm Nora Pinciotti and I am joined as always by Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, are you ready to go? Yes. Let's do this. It's Miley time. We've been really excited about this and now we get to kick it off. This is our first episode of the Miley series. It's going to be all Hannah Montana, the origin story. And Nathan, I do feel that I have to be. have to start by asking you, prior to less than a week ago when I convinced you that you were going to spend a not insignificant amount of your time deep diving into the Miley Cyrus discography, where were you on Hannah Montana? Like, what did Hannah Montana mean to you before it was forced upon you by me into your life? I will tell you what it meant. It meant to me,

So I was CEO of Ticketmaster in the late 2000s. And around 2008, 2009... It's crazy. I've just never heard you mention that before. There was a lot of internal lore. When I had the chance to work with that company, there was just a ton of lore about Miley Cyrus, because Miley Cyrus had gone out and put tickets up on sale at very reasonable prices. And everyone, everywhere, had tried to buy these tickets.

And they had sold out immediately and then immediately appeared in the secondary market for multiples of what they had been sold for. And so, listen, you do not piss off Disney moms. That's the rule. You don't piss off Disney moms. And Disney moms from all corners of the country were furious. And it really was the first very public, at least in the two, since really the pearl jam ticket master dust up. It was really the first very public presentation of these problems of supply and demand, which is that like a lot of, when two million people want 20,000 tickets in an arena and they all go on sale at the same moment in time, like that's a formula for a stampede, not a great buying experience. And Stubhub had become a thing in the secondary market on the internet.

had become a thing. And so Miley Cyrus really was the case study from a music business perspective for, it really pretended what needed to evolve and change in the entire space because you had all these people who thought they were going to be able to buy their kids, these tickets, because their kids loved Miley Cyrus. And shortly thereafter, my kids loved Miley Cyrus. So my experience with her was first on the business side and then as my girls started, to discover her, they became pretty much superfans. And so those were the, that's the lens through which I saw her. Now, for you, though, like, we're really around the same time as fearless, maybe a few years earlier. But, but, you know, 2000's early pop princesses, the bubbles have burst.

I mean, at this time, I'm in the four seasons in L.A. and Britney Spears is running around the bar and a long pink wig down to her, you know, knees. And things aren't going great for Brittany, right? And so we're past the Christina. We're past, like, it's sort of evolved. And we're looking for what's next in this moment, right? We're really in that pocket that Taylor came out of, that Miley came out of, that high school musical came out of, that the Jonas Brothers came out of that, I remember you sort of elucidated to me went tandem with the original Taylor phenomenon because, one, you had that pop bubble from the early 2000s kind of burst, but two, you also had this microgeneration kind of coming of age. That is exactly how old I was to be right there when these Disney

channel artists, when early Taylor, when this, this music that was really by, you. people for young people was getting immensely popular. I'm curious because you said that your kids went crazy for Miley. Was that as Miley? Or was that I would think that your kids are too young for Hannah Montana. No. So they are huge fans of a select number of Hannah Montana songs. But when I asked them how many episodes they actually watched, like I remember Blues Clues and Dora the Explorer and like some stuff. I don't think, I mean, this was only a four-season show. It's not like it was friends or freaking, you know,

Gray's Anatomy or something. This was relatively short. Now, it had to be by design because Miley got older. And Miley, you know, as we'll talk about this, the dichotomy that sort of split between two different personalities is a theme of her life, I think. But I, they, best of both worlds, my girls know inside and out and love that song. I mean, love that song. The climb, they are 100% in on the climb.

Like there's a select number of these songs that are part of their growing up lore. And when my girls were in their like single digits, like five, six, seven, eight, nine, these songs were in the dance party rotation at our house. And they were jamming out to the climb. I have a feeling the climb hive. And I know the climb hive is out there and it is active and it is vibrant. I think the climb hive is going to have a good time on this series. I just find that so interesting because I saw every episode of Hannah Montana.

I saw like that I saw every episode of Hannah Montana. Hannah Montana like Drake and Josh, that era of tween programming is. is exactly the age that I am. And it is interesting. And did you know right when it came out, like, were you there for the first episode? Or was it a thing that after two or three episodes, the virality of it just took over and you had to watch?

No, I think I was there for the first episode because it was such a routine. Like, there were these shows, The Sweet Life of Zach and Cody. Of course. Like, you would come home and I was allowed to, 30 minutes or 60 minutes whatever my TV allotment was

you just sort of knew and that was how you were going to spend it. Like what do you remember about these episodes? 30 minute episodes? I think they're 30 minutes, yeah. They're 30 minutes. Short and sweet. And it feels to me

that like it just, it is of course the corporation of Disney talking to the world. But in so many ways it speaks to that like, basic human dialogue of wanting to be known, right? Believing there's something special inside you, if people could just see me,

and I am a superstar secretly, and all of the aspiration of it, it seemed in particularly that moment in time, that moment in culture, to speak to young girls in a way that just deeply resonated. Yeah, so just in case anyone listening to this is not up to speed on the, Television masterpiece, that is Hannah Montana.

March 2006 to January 2011, that's the time frame that we're working in here. Hannah, Hannah, Miley, Destiny, Destiny Hope Cyrus, originally named. Yes. Tried out for the part of Lily, who's the best friend,

and then nailed the audition. Eventually, the show ends up being remade around her. And the idea, is that she has a double life. She's a pop star with a double life. She's Miley Stewart by day, Hannah Montana by night.

And my recollections of the plot lines of Hannah Montana episodes are basically that Hannah is living a double life and someone's going to find out and there's something that's happened in every episode that is threatening that perhaps Hannah Montana

is going to be exposed. And we just kind of did that over and over. Right. But the reason that it worked And the reason that it became like a real tent pole show for a subset of young millennials is one that Miley Cyrus was electric to watch. And two, it was packed with music. It was like Lizzie McGuire is in a lot of ways the precursor to Hannah Montana because you had Hillary Duff who went on to have a singing career and had some. songs. Lizzie McGuire had like four songs total. Hannah Montana was like, there is an original

song that is here to drive plot happening all the time. I can't believe how much music there is. She was prolific. I didn't know. Like, I just did not understand how much was pumped out. And it feels a little bit like, you know, executives just hitting the button again and again. And, you know, it's very reminiscent of the one direction situation to me, which is they found a formula that worked. And suddenly over a very short period of time, it's just album after album after album, music, after music, after music. And suddenly, within just a couple of years, there's this volume of catalog that, I mean, where's it coming from? The thing that is so weird about this for me, and I wanted to ask you about it, is the line between who is Miley Cyrus and who is Hannah Montana

to me because they are, I mean, even you and I planning this podcast, we weren't exactly sure how to split out and group the stuff together. Today, we're not going to talk about Hannah Montana or Hannah Montana forever because we decided, and I think rightly so, after much spirited debate between you and me and Kaya, that this was the right grouping. How this sausage gets made. Yeah. But it's fierce debate over the Hannah Montana three soundtrack. It's on Disney-like to have brand confusion.

So what I'm asking you is at the time, as somebody who, for whom this was appointment viewing, Were you super clear when you were hearing from Miley Stewart, when you were hearing from Hannah Montana, and ultimately when you were hearing from Miley Cyrus? So, no, I don't think that I was always clear on it. I don't think I really cared. I'm still not clear. And I think that I felt primarily that I was hearing from Hannah, Montana. not because the fictional character was important to me as a voice, but that was how I came to this music. And so to me, I think I was just,

I was in the Hannah Montana ecosystem. And while there are differences, there are differences even within, we're going to talk about Hannah Montana, the original Season 1 soundtrack, Hannah Montana 2, to Hannah, 2 Montana, which is a double album where Side B is Meat,

Miley Cyrus, and the songs are by Miley Cyrus, not Hanna Montana. Oh, yes, they are. And then the Hanna Montana, the movie soundtrack, which has songs that are credited as by Hannah Montana and songs that are credited as by Miley Cyrus. And then a lot of other people shit. Oh, yeah. I mean, oh, yeah, a lot of other people's. Yeah. This thing became a platform for launching other artists. And pulled in some pretty interesting and notable shit. people who we may or may not be fans of. We have a long way to go to get there. I thought it was Hannah.

I just sort of felt like I like Hannah Montana, the franchise, and here is this music that is coming from the Hannah Montana ether. And I don't... When we went back and started digging back into this stuff, It is the Meet Miley Cyrus that has the biggest collection of the songs that I remember in real time just being super obsessed with. Wait, Meet Miley Cyrus, the second part of the album? The second part of the album, the stuff that is coming from Miley Cyrus. But I just don't think that I distinguished it.

And you can distinct, you know, there are differences that you can hear now, but I don't think that I was caught up in that at all. I think I just felt like Hannah Montana has always served me. Yeah. I wouldn't expect like a seven-year-old to be able to make that distinction. I was like 12, I think. Okay. I wouldn't expect a 12-year-old to be able to make that distinction. But there are pretty significant differences between the school hall rock of Hannah Montana 2 and meet Miley Cyrus.

But it's interesting. They made an attempt to differ. her and to sort of launch her as a standalone star out of this franchise, which in some ways was successful in other ways wasn't, but we're going to document that in full. It starts, though, with this show. And the understanding, as you said, that most of the meaningful moments had a soundtrack to them, which again, like, Gray's anatomy sort of is that way, right? It became a platform to launch the fray and a bunch of other artists and their songs. Like, if you could get your song on Grey's Anatomy, it was going to be a thing. There was a handsome doctor that could perish to

your, to the sounds of your music. Yeah. And in 2006, 2007, 2008, what's happened in 2004 is that Napster, you know, 2000, 2004, Napster has decimated the music business. And people have, the sales of albums have plummeted because there's an enormous amount of piracy. And the Spotify's and Apple Musics is the world. We don't even have iPhones at that point in time, right? And so that digitization of music hasn't happened. The record business is freaking out. And so they're looking for any ways to basically tie their music to other things.

And that happens with bundling albums and tickets that starts to drive live events. suddenly the amount of money that an artist makes goes from 20% on the road and 80% in recorded music. It flips. It becomes 80% on the road and 20% comes from recorded music because just the economics of recorded music change. But also, people get really passionate about live events as witnessed by Miley Cyrus going out and doing this tour, the best of both worlds thing that melted down in 2008, sort of melted down the, the ticketing world for sure. So you have this confluence of all these business dynamics in the music business. They're desperate to find a platform to sell music. And this show and the Disney Channel becomes one of the most important ways to do that. And so they just start hitting that button

over and over again. And lucky for us, it creates a ton of content. Now, when this first album comes, like, just tell me, what do you remember about that first album? Was it, did you remember? Did you run out and buy it? Did you know, like, was it a must have? Was it a slow burn for you? I think I would have gotten it shared from friends. I think people, I think people at school talked about it. I think people burned CDs that had, I mean, I remember having like a, I guess it wouldn't have been a CD, but I remember like getting, she's no you. by Jesse McCartney, which is on the first season soundtrack.

Like somehow via someone else who'd probably pirated the file. Right. And getting it on my little, like, colorful tiny iPod that still clicked and made the sounds when you scrolled through the music. Like, people passed this stuff around. It was, it was almost like, it's like a preteen water. or cooler. Yeah. Yeah.

And, I mean, Jesse McCartney's an example of a guy who had, you know, a career because of this show. It didn't, it didn't quite go into the stratosphere like people thought. But Miley herself...

Although, can I say that Jesse McCartney, every like two years, he will play Irving Plaza or Webster Hall or something like that in New York, and I'm sure he's doing that in tons of cities. The women,

exactly my age, myself included, who are packing those shows, and having like such a time, nostalgia is a powerful thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's a super powerful thing.

But it started... Can I say one more thing in terms of how I would have accessed it? Please. It was just Radio Disney. Like, Radio Disney was a pretty significant and powerful entity where you would just listen to this stuff.

Can I ask you something? Of course. And then I want to come back to Miley and just focus on her and sort of why she was so accessible because it's this origin story in who she is and the relatability of someone who, in many ways, is not a normal human being,

not like a lot of us because of a ton of her talent, because of her life story, all these things. But Emily Osmond, Jason Earls, Mellera Hardin, Vanessa Williams. I don't want to hear Mitchell Muso Slander on this podcast. I just want to know, like, did any of these people go on and do something massive in a meaningful way?

Like, was it a platform for actors and actresses? I don't think really. Yeah. I think... I think Hannah Montana was so clearly about Miley Cyrus

that there... I mean, she fought with Tyra Banks. Tyra Banks was on that show. Tyra Banks? It's our only pair. That's not funny. Do you know who I am? Well, I know you know who I am.

So? So? So. So? Okay. Tyra Banks has gone on to do some some other things since her Hannah Montana days. That's one. You've got one. But it was about Miley, right?

It was totally about Miley. I also, let me just hand up. I don't know the ins and outs of what Mitchell Mousso's IMDB page says right now. I know he's not doing anything massive. Is there meaningful work happening on a smaller scale? Quite possibly, I'm just not aware of it. Listen, if you weren't in Valentine's Day,

you're nobody from this air. But the, you love that movie. But the thing. about Miley that it just starts from an accessibility and authenticity standpoint, doesn't it?

And I know we talk a lot about people with their authentic me, but like Miley was able to pull despite being, you know, in 2025, we'd call her a NEPO baby,

wouldn't we? Well, so I was going to ask you this exact question and I was hanging off on it because I feel a little bad about it. One, because I'm a little tired of NEPO baby discourse, but two,

just because this is our first episode, on Miley and I didn't want to kick it off there but I have a, this is a real question. Is Miley Cyrus a NEPO baby? Yes, she is. Billy Ray Cyrus was a star and Nashville

in that moment in time, again, the sort of pop princess bubble has burst. Nashville was becoming this again, confluence of rock and country and artists like Kenny Chesney were starting to play stadiums

every single year. And it became this center of American culture that lots of businesses were looking at as well. But Billy Ray Cyrus was a star in his own right. And so Miley getting a shot here was not an accident. It is not why Nor Princiotti or the Hubbard girls tuned into the show because they didn't give a shit or know who the fuck Billy Ray Cyrus was. It really was about her and the show and the branding and all those things. But they knew that they had someone who had the DNA to be able to be a music star. And clearly she was able to play this part in part because I'm sure some of her life experiences she'd seen it. Had the DNA to play the part of someone who's natural on stage? Had the DNA? Had the DNA to play the part of someone who's natural on stage? Had the

to be someone who is meant to be performing on stage. As we talk about Miley, as we go through this whole thing, there are so many things in her career that ping pong back and forth. And it's in all of these different extremes that in some ways seem like they have nothing to do with each other. I would say that one of the core constants is this is a person who is captivating in front of an audience. Yes.

That I'm absolutely there with you. I think I'm there with you in general, but just to play devil's ad. I think the origin story is important and sort of nuanced because, yes, she is the daughter of fair to say a one-hit wonder, pre-lil-naz-X. I mean, that's saying a lot, but yes, yeah, absolutely. The one-hit wonder artist of Akey Breaky Heart. This sort of ridiculous country song. Yeah.

The story that I most often hear invoked in terms of Miley Cyrus as a Nepo baby is that Dolly Parton is her godmother. Right. Dolly Parton has given some interviews about this, where the way that she has described how she came to be Miley Cyrus's godmother is essentially that she didn't really know the family that well, but Billy Ray just asked. And so I just, I think there is a little bit of, like when I hear Nepo baby, what I think of is institutional privilege, right?

Like someone who grew up in a context where they have access to connections that other people might not have. And they also have access to a kind of savvy that other people might not have access to because they are family members of people who just sort of. know the drill and know the ins and outs of the system. I think some of that is probably true of my life. I also think that the Cyrus family operates a little bit more like what we might call like stage parents.

It's Kardashian-esque. They really wanted fame. They seemed to really want to make it big. And I guess because there's some little bit of that that, that, to me, signals almost kind of a lack of knowledge of what it's really like. I just, I don't, by definition, Miley Cyrus is the Nepo baby, right? You're trying to unburden her from some of her nepotism privilege. I'm just saying that it's a little different.

I'm just saying that I think it's a little different from like some, you know, like a Patrick Schwarzenegger. Right? But I also think, first of all, her mother was Billy Ray's second wife. Her relationship with her father is extremely complicated, including like two of the most fuck-ass songs across this catalog are the duets that she does, where they seem to have ripped off other artists. And I just would shoot them into the fucking son. And I think that she probably feels the same way right now. and there's a lot of drama here that we're going to talk about.

Yeah. That, you know, she rebels against her own character. She rebels against the trappings of fame. She rebels against the Disney box of Goody Two's shoes. She also rebels against her father. So there has a lot here. There's a lot here to unpack that has gone into the psyche of someone who became famous way earlier than her father did for sure.

And you know what? I think what I'm ultimately saying is that it can be both. I just want to make the point that I think there were certain parts of how she wound up auditioning for Hannah Montana, getting the role. They write Billy Ray into the script so that he plays her father, but her father is a musician where there was a real attempt to make it big as a family for Miley. Yeah. Where there's some stage parenting at work. No. In addition to being an industry kid.

History is littered with kids who got famous and the parents don't really understand that it's not about them. And they want to be famous. There are money problems. There are interpersonal challenges. And the Cyrus family is not exempt from them. For sure.

And we will have a lot of time to get to that. But let's get to these songs. Let's get to these soundtracks. Just to remind people, we are covering Hannah Montana, the season one soundtrack, Hannah Montana 2, Meet Miley Cyrus, the double album, and Hannah Montana, the movie, the soundtrack. Those are the three that she worked on before she really got into putting out solo music that was unaffiliated with Hannah Montana. So that's why we've grouped them this way. We're going to talk about Hannah Montana three.

We're going to talk about Hannah Montana forever. But we're going to do that on later episodes when we cover the solo work that was happening. How did I get here? Stop making fun of me when I am explaining things. Thanks to our listeners. Did I get here? What has happened in my life? We're going to talk about those within the context of the solo work that was happening

when those later albums and seasons of the show came out. And without further ado, Nathan, let's talk about it. Do you have the biggest hit from the early Hannah catalog? Yeah. I mean, I think it's best of both worlds. Mixed it all together and you know that the best. That's the both world. I mean, you got to tell me, but I think that's what it is.

You can't really look at streaming stats for this stuff because, again, it was sort of caught in the tweener between the Napster and the Spotify eras. But when I ask the young women in my life who are in my family in particular, and now I'm narrowing it and telling on myself, but like this is the one. This is the one that they just relate the most. too. It tells the story of Miley Cyrus. It is the, it just sort of packs all of those things about the, I'm a superstar inside. If people could just see me, life is all the Disney stuff. This is it. Now, maybe you're going to tell me it's fucking pumping up the party or something,

which is also a good ass song, by the way. But I think it's best of both worlds. I went in the same direction you did. Now, if you want to make a more stream-based argument, and I think that you could also make this argument as what is the most lasting song from this era, then I think you have to talk about the climb. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure.

Because Best of Both Worlds is truly Hannah, the fact that that song, as the theme song, was really good. I just think went such a long way because again, I'm not knocking the script writers. I sat there and I enjoyed every minute of my Hannah Montana.

But the fact that the music was really good was such a huge part of the success of the show and I think the fact that they started off on that foot, it did fit the narrative of the show. It was designed to fit the narrative of the show, as many of these songs are, but it gave you that both that kind of

Disney-Pyed pop punk very guitar-driven aesthetic in this Miley package where one of the things that I think is

so interesting to follow is that she does always on some level sound like she's singing a country song even when she's not. There was something that combined

aesthetics that were incredibly popular with the demographic that they were designed to go to with a person where you were pretty quickly like, oh, I like hearing from her specifically that I think even if you can't make the same type of numbers based argument, I do think that that was the hit that kind of defined the era.

Yeah, I don't... Again, I bring this back and say, I don't want to over-parallel the one-direction stuff. this work was less driven by a single set of people. There's lots of writers across the Hannah Montana catalog. There are lots of producers, although she does start to zone in on the rock mafia guys. But generally speaking,

it feels like Disney had a stable of relationships across writers and producers, and they grabbed a bunch of stuff and threw it against the wall. As I listen to this, though, I do hear elements of music at the time. Like that first Hannah Montana album, you know, if we were a movie,

seems to steal from Jason Moraz's The Remedy, right? And I learned from you that just a god-awful song with Billy Ray Cyrus. Sounds a lot like I'm with you by Avril Levine. And the other side of me sounds a little bit like Spice Girls Wannaby. You can hear that they're pulling pieces from this mid-2000 Y2K sort of decade music. And integrating it. And I don't mind that because they were just trying, it was really more about the message, right?

It's the message of telling the story of Hannah and underneath it all, I'm just like you. But I am more than just your average girl and I can do anything. And I don't know. All of these little quasi-feminist girl power messages were layered over songs that certainly sounded familiar if you'd been listening to pop and rock music for the decade before this show came out. I also think especially if you were in the Disney universe, that first season soundtrack is the least singular, right? It has the least awareness of what she's specifically good at. It doesn't mean that it's bad.

It's just most of those songs, you know, they could be Hillary Duff songs. They could be the Click Five. Like, there's so many, you know, in that, like, young adult tween Radio Disney universe where those songs could have been passed around. That happened on some of these and on some of the later ones, and we'll talk about that. But I do think with to some degree the exception of the best of both worlds, and I don't know if that's just because it was the theme and it's a great song, that feels like it has a mildy signature that a lot of the rest of the first one doesn't quite have.

When we get a little bit later on, I think some of these later songs start to play. around with what she was good at, but also sort of zero in on a more, more Miley or more Hannah signature. Well, you and I have documented a few voices on this podcast over the years that have evolved in a lot of ways. And I'm thinking, of course, about one Taylor Allison Swift, whose narrative, unsurprisingly, is threaded through the Miley Cyrus lore, as we will talk about today. narrative we have never asked to be excluded from. And, but Taylor's voice changes a lot, a lot from 2009 to 2015 to 2020. Miley Cyrus's in a lot of ways is the same. It's the same.

From this first record in 2006, all the way up until the singles that have dropped just in the last few days. And I think there's something about this woman's voice that I want to just get your perspective on because there are like a lot of guys that I talk to about Miley Cyrus. And I know that in and of itself is a thing that might be hard for some people to believe actually happens. A lot of guys I talked to about Miley Cyrus, quote Nathan Hubbard. They like her voice. They like her voice. And I have to tell you that in and of itself, I've never thought of it as this incredible instrument. It is husky and smoky at times.

But I wonder if it is such a perfect fit with her personality, which was designed to make people believe that she could just be this average small-town girl who's walking the halls of your high school with a secret superstar life. Like her voice couldn't be so unbelievably, you know, Ariana Grande could not have played this role, I don't think, because her voice is too standoutish. There's something about the way that Miley sings that is exceptional, but you could also believe it's one step above what you and your friends would be able to fire off at karaoke at night. I don't know what your view is on this, because there's some people who think her voice is like incredible out of this world. And I just wonder if it's that it's that it's, It feels so accessible, and that's what makes it exceptional. I would even go a step further and say that you could argue that her voice is the same now as it was that.

I mean, obviously it's not, right? It's a little nasolier early, but it's not like the Taylor evolution. Come on, man. But you would go, that's Miley Cyrus, in the same way that you would go, that's Miley Cyrus, if you heard a song today. I think part of it is she does, it is identifiable. She does have that husky quality that I love. I don't know that I would speak about it in the terms that I would in Ariana Grande. No.

Or an Adele and say, oh my God, what a, what an instrument. This has happened so few times in the history of the world that someone has been able to use their voice and sing like this. That's not Miley. But she has kind of a pathos. I think comes out of there. It does feel... And that she could be a 70-year-old woman who's chain-smoked her whole life?

Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. I do think that's part of it. I used to have... I don't know how I'm going to bring this around and make this a concrete point because this doesn't have a lot to do with anything. But I used to have, when I was in, like, preschool and kindergarten,

my best friend was this girl, Cassandra. And she sounded like she was a 70-year-old woman who changed-smoked her entire life. And she couldn't, like, say ours. So she would, like, talk to my parents and be like, where's Noah? And my dad, like, to this day, my dad will just, like, sob laughing if this girl is invoked. And she did sound a little bit like Miley Cyrus. That's a story that's basically for me and no one else.

But anyway, she is talented enough. It was very much for us. Don't worry. Okay. Great. I just wanted to tell you guys about, like, my. My dad would make jokes that this girl was chain smoking in the bathroom at kindergarten when we were less than 10 years old. He was just like ripping off this poor girl. I'm not saying her full name here. Write down a few of those jokes because that's effectively what I have for Miley's voice in this moment is it's kind of, yeah, it's like that. It's not a thing that startles you where you just sort of lean forward. But it draws you in.

It is strong enough as a developed instrument that they don't have to do a lot of editing to her. Right. And I would say that by Hannah Montana 2, the double album, to Miley 2 Cyrus, particularly on the Miley Cyrus side. There are songs where you feel like she's really close to the mic and she's, just singing right to you in your face. It feels very real. It feels like it doesn't feel like a glossy pop song that's been run through a bunch of filters and has been tweaked and perfected in a studio.

It feels like, and I'm thinking of, I'm thinking of see you again. I'm thinking of start all over. I think particularly those sort of rockers, you hear so clearly that a person is singing these songs. And I just think that one of her superpowers is that when you hear her, you always picture in your mind's eye the full person. Like, think of something like the Tate McCray album where I liked it more than you did, but we agreed that one of the things that's a little weird about it is you're listening to it and going, okay, I'm listening to songs that are pretty well put together. But like, who is this coming from? I don't really have a picture in my mind's eye.

When have you ever said that about Miley Cyrus? Well, that's right. And the thing that is interesting about her as an artist that I really only retroactively understood in doing my homework for this is that she is a fascinating blend of what's actually happened with the music industry, which is that rock has become,

country. Country has become rock. And Miley Cyrus is a rocker and a rock star. She actually is. Like, I saw her perform at the Chris Cornell tribute concert and was like, what the, who, whose idea was this? She killed it. And she had that sort of rock era that we'll talk about. But the roots of- about to go into another one, by the way. Yes. The roots of these songs are straight up rock and roll. And I mean, I will go for, like, Hannah Montana, too has some of that, like, skater boy stuff. But it's still schoolhouse rock, and it's still telling the stories of Miley Cyrus, right? You got the American Idol judge, Kara DiGuardi.

Yeah. Responsible for every song that you just thought of when Nathan said, kind of skater boy adjacent, that's a Kara D. Gordy song. Right. And she doesn't actually write many of the songs on Hannah Montana, too, but they all sort of fall in line. And we'll talk about nobody's perfect, which my daughter's love, but I think is the most ridiculous song in the entire Hannah Montana catalog.

It is, I mean, it is. So off the rails, ridiculous. We'll talk about this. No, I know. Talk to me about it now. I have to hear this. It's absurd. It is absurd.

It's the ayes and uh-huhs. And that's what I'm talking about and work it. Like, it just slays me. I was laughing so hard. Everybody makes mistakes. Montana sings about talking about a plan, but I absolutely am going to. It's like her big thing is, I'm going to make a plan. Like she's Dora the Explorer to the tree across the fancy bridge and then to grandma's house. Like that's what's going on in this song. And it's all these like high ass voice

hustle porn lies where she's like, yeah. Like we get obsessed with kids like the Rizzler now. Like this is like listening to the Rizler. I am on record as hating the Rizzler. just to say it here. If all you did was listen to nobody's perfect, like the breakdown with her motivational speech, it's just too much. It's totally ridiculous that we're listening to this child

give us a pump-up motivational speech and all of the little things. I can just hear the record producer being like, give us a work-it after that, Miley. And then she goes in there and it's like, work it. It's like, come on, man. It's one step shy of Jojo's Siwa for, me. And I know that she, like, it comes later, but nobody's perfect. When she's like, if things don't turn out

the way you planned, figure something else out. If things don't turn out the way you plan, figure something else out. Don't stay down. Try again. Right. Whoa, thanks. I mean, nothing turns out the way that I plan. I can't figure anything out. What the fuck now, Miley? Counterpoint? Great chorus. Oh, terrific chorus. My girls love this song. Like in the absence of understanding the ridiculousness of taking life advice from a child, this is a pretty cool song. It might be crazy, but she does it anyway.

Oh, that's really, really, really funny. It's out of control. Do you know the one that I love and our girl is responsible for this? It's in you'll always find your way back home where she's like, you can change your style and you can change your jeans. Something about the jeans line makes me laugh so hard. Well, she likes to sing about her jeans. Well, yes, of course. It's like we didn't even want to reach for a metaphor.

We're just like, you can change it up by putting on new pants. Yes, yes, you can. You can put on your old blue jeans if you want on Anna Montana 2. The movie, we're going to come back to you, always find your way back home. Because clearly, we need to have a discussion about the intersection between Taylor Swift and Miley Cyrus. but the thing that I want to tell you about Hannah Montana 2 meet Molly Cyrus

is that Hannah Montana 2 is fine nobody's perfect yes lots of people like rock star fine old blue jeans I'm okay there's two songs on this record that I absolutely want to

like just kill true friend fuck you whoever wrote true friend this song sucks so bad you and me together could have been a decent song, but the harmonies turn this into just like a total album The Chipmunk song. Whatever.

Hannah Montana 2, it's fine. But what I need you to understand, and I texted you this, and I believe it with every fiber of my being, Meet Miley Cyrus is punk as hell. That album fucking rocks. And I don't think that you agreed with me, when we started this conversation

and we traded a few things. But that album is, it fucking rocks. Okay, do not assign me this. I 100% agreed with you. You were just having a hissy fit about how many Hannah Montana albums there were. And I was focusing on that part of the conversation.

I mean, she writes a lot of these songs. East Northumberland High is like London calling by the clash. It's unbelievable. But then, like, start, you said it, start all over, kicks ass. Start all over is incredible. That's a Fifi Dobson song that ended up going to Miley.

And like, I fucking love that song. That song rules. Well, right here is two minutes and 45 seconds of a full ass beat down in the best way. I'm right here. Clear almost sent me into a mental hospital because why are we doing

a fucking calypso reggae song right now we just played start all over and but then they totally save it with good and broken which is one of the best songs on the album again super punk it all starts with it just like

it is a rock album I miss you I mean why Brian Green and Wendy Foley Green. I don't know who you are, but I blame you for this. So can I, let me push back on that. I believe that Molly wrote, I miss you. I believe Miley wrote, I miss you as a tribute to her grandfather. I know. And I think these people probably were just there to do some handholding.

And I think it probably meant something to her. And that's the only reason that it's there. We make no excuses for people who you had no sympathy for Katie Perry when she did that. Do you feel like after however many years that we've done this show together, we are currently reaching the highest form of every single album, which is just Nathan Hubbard ripping off Hannah Montana takes. That's a little bit how I feel now. I just need you to know that you had no sympathy for Duelipa, no sympathy for Katie Perry when they did.

Now, I get that it is a fair comeback before you even say it. She was a child. She was a child. She was a minor when she put this song. When have I been accused of having no sympathy for Duelipa? Well, you didn't have soon. empathy for the relative lameness of I'm trying to pour my heart into a song

songs from Duolipa. Fine. Fine. But Duolipa is like a fully formed human being. Yeah. I just, Miley Cyrus, meet Miley Cyrus in particular. Meet Miley Cyrus is punk as fuck. And that is the truth.

Take it to the bank. Destiny Hope Cyrus is a writer on a lot of these songs. And if you were paying attention when this album came out, you fast forwarded through all those Hannah Montana two songs and you went, who is this girl? She is going to be a star. So do you have a best song? I cheated and went with the top five. So I can give you my top five Hannah Montana era, Miley, Hannah, whatever.

But I want to know what if it's for Meet Miley Cyrus or something else. I mean, look, I love the climb as a song. I really do. I think that's the best song. I could pick five songs from Meet Miley Cyrus that I think are badass. Start All Over is badass. Right here, kicks ass. See you again.

Kicks ass. Good and broken. Kicks ass. I've said this already. I'll stop. I think it's the climb. I think it's the climb too. Everything that you just mentioned, I absolutely agree with.

Another one that I love is dream. Really? Yeah, I like that song a lot. That's a Karate Eiquardi song that sounds like a charity. Guardi song. It's just so ethereal. It just sounds so fun. Yeah, I dream for me was kind of like a skip, but I'll give it. At that point, I mean, it's on the other side of the climb. How do you feel about Ho-Down Throwdown? Ho-Down Throwdown is so hard for me to think of as like a non-novelty. It's like a real song.

Boom, declapped, de clap, boom, boom, clap. Boom, clap. Boom, de clap, boom, boom, clap. Boom, de clap, boom, clap. Boom, de clap, boom, clap. Because I really did learn how to do it. And I was in high school by this point. Yeah.

To me, that has been part of the sinking in of how much this show and Miley at this stage got into youth culture, but also what she meant to people is the climb. I mean, one of my best friends, the climb is like her song. Yeah. I cannot think of that song without thinking of my friend Katie, like spending so much time doing her homework in high school and just being like, I can do it.

And during that time period, the movie came out. The movie came out, I think, in 2009, which was we were, we were either freshmen or sophomores, depending when it happened. But I remember that like... And whether you were held back for math purposes? Which I wasn't.

We went to... I think we went to see it. And I believe that I've gotten into this before. I went to boarding school. I'm not going to bore you with the specifics. To go see a movie, you cared about the movie. And I think we all went to see the Hannah Montana movie together. And I do remember, like,

being in our dorms and doing the like, put your hawk in the sky. And it was like the apple dance before the apple dance. Like we did the ho-down throwdown. Yeah. Well, it's so hokey. But in the context of the movie, it makes a little bit more sense. The climb for me is it just sounds like that intersection of Nashville became the place where songwriters go.

And to this day, I think it is where most of the best songwriters are and exist. I think it's why Taylor Swift still bass is there. I think it's like in the music business, that is where most of the sort of like rock or rock adjacent country singer songwriter stuff. That's where it lives. And if you're a songwriter, that's where you go post up and write as much as you possibly can because you hope that, you know, you become Amy Allen and you start writing all the pop songs that matter. It just feels like quintessential Nashville in that moment, beautiful melodies, it builds, it doesn't try to extend her voice too much. It just is the perfect song for Miley Cyrus. And I think it is definitely the best in the catalog. And I have to say,

across this movie soundtrack, I don't love a lot from Hannah Montana the movie. And I understand. And I understand that I'm saying that about a soundtrack that includes not one but two Taylor Swift songs. So I want to hear from your perspective how the Taylor Swift thing happened because what I know, and I am purely speculating in this moment, but I do know that this story could be the Taylor Swift story, right, where she, for her whole life, from the time she could form a thought, believed that she was an ordinary girl, but she was a superstar inside. And if people could just see it, she would be that star and that she was imagining herself in this double life and all of these things. And we know that Taylor gets obsessed about TV shows. I mean,

she names her cats after the law and order people. She is a 100% percent. St. Gray's Anatomy Girl. Like, I gotta believe that Taylor Swift fell in love with this story and tried to get as close to it as possible

and that that is why we have, you'll always find your way back home, a Taylor Swift song, and she actually appears in the movie. But you tell me,

how did this happen? I think it was a little bit of that. I bet she got it. I bet, you know, Taylor as a little bit older, but still a young person, I think,

would have been able to clock, like, this works. Hannah Montana works. This is not going to be a flash in the pan. This is a good thing to get involved in. I do think that given where she was by that point, it probably came from the business perspective too, right? Here is this story that really has a lot of natural synergy, as you said, with the Taylor Swift's career arc and the themes that she likes to sing about.

I believe the Jonas connection also sort of tied her into this world a little bit. And so I'm imagining that it came a little bit more from this would make a lot of sense rather than Taylor is a Hannah Montana superfan in the way that she is a Meredith Gray superfan just because I think she's a little old for it. But Miley was doing exactly what Taylor wanted to do. use country roots to get some fame. Break out of country. Be the full secret pop star she was born to be, right?

I mean, it's all right there. Oh, if you're asking me if Taylor Swift had been offered the role of Hannah Montana, would she have taken it? A hundred percent. And I don't know what world we'd live in at this point, if that had been the case. I mean, these are very, very adjacent origin stories. And I think it might have taken Taylor a little while to shake off that I'm destined to be Miley Stewart slash Hannah Montana.

But give me your honest assessment of these two songs. How have they really played out through the lore of Taylor? I mean, there was always jokes. Hey, are we going to hear Crazier as a surprise song? Sadly, sadly, that didn't come to fruition. But like, what's your assessment of these two songs? I believe Crazier was played as a surprise song at some point. Great.

just for the record. I'll fact check this and get back to everybody and confirm, but I believe that it was a surprise song. And I think that it's the better of the two.

I like crazier. I think crazier is, like, it just lets Taylor do that Edison light bulb twinkle lights with her guitar.

I'm a country girl thing. And I think it comes out in a way that's pretty sweet. do I think it is A level Swift? Certainly not. I would go back to it a lot more easily than easily is not the right word.

But I go back to it much more than I go back to you. You'll always find your way back home. That's not because I think it's bad. Again, I think the jeans thing is a hoot. But it just hasn't stuck with me in a way that a lot of the other, particularly Miley, but some of these other Hannah Montana songs,

have, but crazier I think of as a Taylor Swift deep cut that I'm mildly fond of. She did play it. She mashed it up with all the girls you love before in Edinburgh. You make me crazier, crazier, crazy, another.

Oh, yeah, because that was like, it was like the night after I went. I wasn't at that one, but it was like the night after I went. after she played New Romantics, while you heard it from the streets, right? No, she, it was the bolter that I heard from the streets. Oh, the bolter you heard from the streets. Tragic. But, man, that night.

Bring that up. That's sensitive for me. Crazier with all the girls you'd love before. It was a mash-up, so she didn't do it fully. But anyway, she did do it. Fine. She did it. Which kind of in its own way is kind of cool.

I like it. It's just like, I hear Nathan Chapman all over that song. Yeah, and going back to it now is just a reminder of the evolution. But it isn't, you need to hear these songs

and understand the plot of this to really understand Taylor Swift. I think this was a thing that she, yes, it was the equivalent of a feature on a rap song for her, but it was not just a business decision. I really think she saw a lot of herself

in this character. I think that's fair. I guess I think that that can be both at the same time. Tennessee girl in school who wants to be believed in. That, my friend, is Taylor Allison Swift. Of course. Of course. And the idea that something with that narrative was having all of this success, of course she would have felt motivated by that. I guess what I'm saying is that I do think that I'm a little bit on the upper end in age for people where this was really, really central. And Taylor is a few years older than me. That's the only thing that I'm saying. Just because I think she would have been squarely in high school for most of Hannah Montana. And I think it was more targeted at just before. Okay.

I need you to talk to me about, I mean, we talked about East Northumberland High being a song you love and totally giving you the clash. What I need you to tell me is how you feel about the very end where she goes, rock and roll. Yeah. It's great. it's whoever was putting shit in her ear on nobody's perfect definitely put that shit in her ear and that's fine

I can make some small little you know I can concede I can overlook that let me put it that way but it is a little bit ridiculous but it's the second song on the album of Meet Miley Cyrus Nobody's Perfect is the second song on Hannah Montana 2

and if I'm comparing ridiculous it's not even a debate. But yeah, rock and roll is like a thing that like your kid says after they like, that's like what your three-year-old says after she spills, she knocks over a bottle of something and it goes all over the kitchen. Or like whales on the air guitar. Yeah, she looks at you as like,

rack and roll. Rock and roll. Yeah. So I know that you would cut the Billy Ray collabs. True friend. Fuck off. Fire it.

to the sun. Really, you and me together, we don't need to be together. Yeah, it's you. I do think clear among the the Meet Myles-Iris side of the second album,

which I agree with you is the strongest collection of songs here. Clear, we do not need. No. And I'm pretty clear on that. Yeah. I think, I mean,

we haven't actually addressed butterfly fly fly away. Little girls depend on things like that. Which is the Billy Ray collab where they stole landslide. To the landslide. I mean, they ripped, right?

So it's like every time they put these two together, they can't seem to get a song that sounds new. They got to just put them, I don't get it. And now, look, Miley goes on to have a lot of success, both doing actual covers and also doing songs that are very clearly updates and reconfigurations of classic, classic songs. So she's done it in ways that don't bother me, but I hear you on this one. I mean, let's do this has some Shania Twain in it.

What's not to like is basically trumps when you're famous, you can do whatever you want, speech. Oh my God. It's insane. But I think for that purpose, let's keep it. Yeah, absolutely. Let's tell the kids. What would you cut that we haven't talked about? So I think, look, the purpose of this category in this context, I think, when we're talking about three albums worth four, arguably, because of the double album, I would cut all the songs that we've just talked about.

I think the way that I would articulate the types of songs that I think don't work so much. it is that maybe there's a little bit of overdosing on I'm just a real girl with my pants. And that comes through in, I would not cut nobody's perfect, but I do, I think that's an example of where it comes through. Oh, yeah.

Overwroughtness of some of that uplifting kitty messaging. How about one in a million? The chimes at the start. It sounds like a TLC song in the beginning. It sort of broke me a little bit. I was like, oh, I'm not, but then I was in, by the end, I was into it. It was like a sound like the way it is by Bruce Hornsby or something at the end. That song is okay with you.

It's different in the context of the sort of rocky album. I mean, I do think that you hear, you hear all these examples of they tried stuff on. And I do think that one of the blessings and the curses of, of Miley Cyrus in general is that on some level she can sell anything. Yeah. And I do think that's why you get into trouble with like, hey, let's have her try a reggae song. Yeah. That's right.

It's like here comes clear. No, no. Do not do this. No. And she can come just close enough to somehow pulling it off because she is Miley Cyrus, that there's going to be no one in the room going, hey, this is, this is not something we should do. Hey, guys. Let's not do it.

Let's get the flamenco guitar out of here. This, you are not Sebastian from Little Mermaid. Can you maybe shift back and let's try another Avril Levine rip off? Sebastian from Little Mermaid is going to show up on the dead pets. Oh. So I think it's some of that. I think there were a lot of, you know, this doesn't, this isn't Miley, but there are a lot of, but there are a lot of the other artists

who were brought in to kind of do the Hannah Montana Avengers thing. And I think that works sometimes and doesn't work probably close to as many times. Like I don't know the last time that I went back and listened to Shining Star

or find yourself in you. Pop Princess by the Click Five. Kind of a good song. So I will say there are some hits, but there are also some misses in the guest artists, I think. But it's really, it's, it's some of the repetitiveness in, I'm a girl with a double life. And if you just believe in yourself, it is some of the, wow, look at this talented young performer.

Let's see how many different directions we can put her in. And sometimes that works and sometimes that doesn't. And then it's the, it's when it gets real saccharin. And those are sort of the three categories of Hannah Montana that don't work for me. Well, and as we talk about the story of Miley, I kind of understand why she got tired of this shit and started to push back against it. Like at some point, it's like, all right, I am no longer a inspirational poster that you buy at home goods to put up in the entryway about, you know, if I could give you one thing in life, I would give you the ability to see yourself through my eyes, how special you. are to me. Like, fucking, hey, can we just get past this and start talking about stuff? That's why I really like Meet Miley Cyrus, because that opening line is like my favorite lyric. Like, I got my

sight set on you and I'm ready to aim. I have a heart that will never be tamed. Like, there's something more front foot and aggressive about that that is so different from anything else in the rest of the catalog, you could just hear her like, bang, like poking out of trying to punch her way out of the shell and of the constraint and just like, like, the matrix when the guy just like, Keanu Reeves' characters like busts out of that egg and rips off the stuff. Miley's starting to rebel even as this album comes out and she's still very much in her Miley or in her Hannah Montana era.

Do you have a most important collaborator? As we discussed, there's a lot. God. I guess it's rock mafia. What do you think? I don't know. Is it Taylor Swift? Is it her dad?

I went with Billy Ray. I do think that in the arc of how all of this came to be, I don't think you have Hannah Montana if you don't have Billy Ray Cyrus. I don't think against his daughter's wishes in any way, but with a lot of intention, putting her in this position to start having a career like this,

to be public facing, to chase fame, to chase a certain type of notoriety, to get himself in the show, to be part of that. And I think both in, in her personal life and the personal lives of this family and also in how her career has progressed

in part as a reaction to how it started out. I just, I think that the imprint of Billy Ray can't be understated. I'm very happy to go with that. I just don't ever want to hear the collabs again. Where are you on Akey Breaky Heart? Yeah, thumbs up. Bring it.

Great song. Okay. Terrific. Okay. But if I have to hear, I miss you. The Butterfly song again, come on. Get me back. Just rewind.

Play right here again. Start all over again. Good and broken. Again. So you want to play backwards, like backwards by Rascal Flats. A little scattered and absurd. But that's what you get when you play a country song backward. Yeah, I mean, I just don't, I just don't want to hear the collabs.

I hear you. No, I hear you. It didn't work. I think Billy Ray worked himself into the mix here and we can talk about the motives of that. And I certainly agree that not all of it was successful. May I give you an Easter egg a trip into the conspiracy corner? Just, just a little. It comes in the form of a question. Pray tell.

We talked about you'll always find your way back home. True or false, this song is going to show up on debut Taylor's version whenever it comes to exist. You mean it was supposed to? I'm not saying that it was necessarily supposed to. I do think that I've seen a few of those, you know, little poorly sourced viral posts about how it's been registered. and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The point is, like, she has reclaimed every other song that she's written and re-recorded, and it's been added to deluxe versions of the Taylor's version.

Yeah, and so I want to know if you think that this one is going to find its way back home on to debut Taylor's version. I do. I do, too. This woman leaves no detail unfocused on. And like you said, I don't think that she would be hesitant to sort of claim her space within the Hannah Montana universe. I think she will love it and she does not leave any dangling participles or hanging chads. She will not leave any songs on if we're going to do this, we're doing it.

I feel like Taylor's supposed probably left a few chads hanging in her time. But um, shhush. Tush. Do you have a peak Hannah? Peak Miley? I just can't. Peak destiny hope. It's nobody's perfect. It just is. that's it. I mean, that's like, we're taking life advice from a child. I'm going home now. I like it.

I do think, so the amount of Hannah Montana. Yeah, you've consumed a lot more of this content than I have. You tell me. Well, so it's funny in the sense that the show is at least a little self-aware. Like, there were moments on the show where Miley Stewart, the character would be talking to Lily or talking to her dad or whatever and sort of go on a rant about

I can't sing this stuff anymore. It's so it's it's nobody's perfect. They're just these uplifting messages. It's just boring. It doesn't say anything. I want to do something real. I want to say something from the heart. And she would really, it's funny because here I am saying that one of the one of the ways in which some of the stuff doesn't quite hit the highs of some of the better music is that it gets a little repetitive in that stuff. And the show did acknowledge that to some degree. And I wonder if Miley kind of made that happen. I wonder if she kind of just wanted it to go there. I think that there is a consistent theme through the entirety of this franchise where you're not sure if life is imitating art or the other way around. And it is that this positive

go get a message, worked for Miley very early on, and then became very boring for her as she grew up and didn't want to be told, she didn't want to be a spokesperson for Disney. Now, the journey between that rebellion and her being named a Disney legend is littered with all sorts of interesting drama and twists and turns in which she, I think, for a period of time, turns her own career into something less than you would have thought it was going to be in 2009, and then very suddenly and unexpectedly turns her career back into complete iconic status. But in the beginning here, even in these early days, you can tell that there is a gap, there is space between the message of Hannah Montana and the beliefs and personal

desires of Miley Cyrus. So I'll add one more thing to this category, which is probably more peak Nora than it is peak Hannah. But I was recalling that right around the time when the movie came out, there's, I think the scene in the movie is, they have to get Hannah or Miley through some room where someone might recognize her, someone who knows her as Miley Stewart might recognize her if they saw her as Hannah Montana or

something like that for the fellow Hannah heads out there. I'm sorry that I'm not remembering the specifics of this better. But what they do is they dress her up. She's got her blonde hair on, but she also, they put her in like huge movie star sunglasses. And the idea is basically we're going to rush her through this room and make it like she's such a diva. So nobody can talk to her. so that nobody recognizes her. I think that's what I remember being the context.

There's some chance that I'm completely wrong in this. But anyway, Lily, being her sort of shepherd, says to someone the line, Hannah only flies west to east. She's actually getting younger. And I cannot tell you, Nathan, how funny I thought this was in the year of our Lord 2009, such that that line was my Facebook bio for, I tell you, years. Literally years. Nora Princeziati, everybody.

I thought it was so funny. And I can't like, oh my God, I'm cringing so hard. But I share nothing but my truth on this podcast. And that is my truth. Like, it's probably, honestly, it's probably still there. Well, depending on how you end up grading this stuff, I might condemn you to one week of reinstating that in your Twitter Instabio. I just thought it was so funny, like the idea that she's only flying one way around the globe,

so she's rewinding her. I just, it just hit. It really hit. Next album, Appetizer. We talked a little bit about what happens that's different about Meet Miley Cyrus. I would go there more so than the movie soundtrack for the heart. the Harbingers. I got to say, I mean, I think starred all over,

which was again, originally a song that Fifi Dobson wrote for herself, there's an edge there that feels important, both in terms of what comes next when she does breakout as what is technically, it's kind of referred to as her second solo album, really think in a lot of ways that was her first because Meet Miley Cyrus was so tied to Hannah.

But I do think that there are a lot of similarities. Yeah. In the sound of those two. I agree. But I think good and broken is just as punk. And so I think those couple songs on the back, again, interspersed by Clear and I miss you. What are we doing here? I mean, maybe the next album, Appetizer is at the end of East Northumberland High when she says rock and roll.

Because I think what we had, like the big picture takeaway that had been learned this point into the Miley Cyrus arc. is, oh, yeah, she can be a Disney kid. She's, you know, G-rated, family-friendly, for now. Yeah. But this is someone who wants to rock a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the main evolution to this point. Yeah.

Well, the rebel in Miley Cyrus is here. And it is foreshadowing lots of rebellion to come ahead. What is your best lyric? I gave it to you. It's the start. It is the start. of CU again, because right out of the gate for me, I got my sight set on you and I'm ready to aim.

I have a heart that will never be tamed. For me, that was like, that grabbed me. I was like, this is, it's subtle, but it is extremely different in tone and approach and energy and tense than anything else that we'd heard. That never be tamed, can't be tamed idea clearly matters to her. Yeah. I went with

See you again too but not the same lines You like oh she's just being Miley I like my best friend Leslie said Oh she's just being Miley It's so You know what I love about it is that it's a little wrong It's a little weird

It's like okay Sure you're being You're being Miley You are Miley Leslie is also such an awkward name I think in some I have a cousin named Leslie love and respect to all the Leslie's out there.

But there's something sort of, it's like there's a girl in your middle school class named Leslie and that's just who that is. I think the insertion of that little vignette just cracks me up. It makes a song memorable. There's a lot. Like Leslie, like in the show,

her best friend's name is Lily. So anyway. So you don't, right, that's part of why it sticks out because you don't quite know what it's supposed to mean. Did she mean? Does she have a Leslie in her life, quite possibly? I don't know. But there is, I think the magic of so many of these songs is that even though they did come out of this like sort of Disney, Disney artist, radio Disney machine.

A lot of them that could sound pretty prefab don't because of Miley. But in particular, I think this, it's just, it's an unusual moment. Like it just doesn't really fit with the cadence of the rest of the song. And I also just think it's funny. So she's just being Miley. I got to go there. How did you think about grading this? You know what?

I struggle with it. Because I think if you and I put together, it synthesize the best stuff. If we take the climb, if we take best at both worlds, if we take, for me it's a lot of the punky stuff on Meet Miley Cyrus.

If we take, I mean, I don't even hate, like, I don't even hate pumping up the party or if we were a movie or the other side of me, like that's stuff that feels a little bit lifted. But I think if you put that stuff together, you've got like an A-minus pop album on one side and then a pretty fucking good,

like legit little punk rock album on the other side. So I just don't know how to grade it all as a category because there's some stuff, by the time you're through all of it, it's exhausting. The Disney bang me over the head with a message stuff. I'm sure she was tired of it, too. So that's how I wasn't exactly sure how to grade it. It's like if we got three tortured poets full of girl power messages. So we will promise to not wuss out on green. in any future episodes where we're just talking about a single album. I'm going to equivocate a little bit here because it is more complicated.

Here's what I would say. The Hannah Montana Project, it's either an A or an A minus. I guess I would call it an A minus because as a launch pad, it was incredibly successful. It remains to me, certainly, and I think to a lot of people, beloved. It was as good of an opening vehicle for Miley as I think you could come up with. I do think it created some problems for her going forward, just in terms of the ability to break out of the Disney box. And then I think when we talk about this as actual music,

you know, I'm not going to say that there is an A grade full-length pop album in this bunch here. But as you said, there are some really solid songs that you could put together in a collection. I certainly think the best album of the ones that we've talked about if you split Hannah Montana 2 and Meet Myly Cyrus apart is Meet Myelie Cyrus. I think the single best song is the climb. But I don't think the Hannah Montana, the movie soundtrack as a whole, is as good as Meet Myelie Cyrus. I guess Meet Miley Cyrus, I don't know. Would I give it an A minus? Would I give it a B plus?

I think if I come to a musical-based conclusion, I would give Hannah a very warm B-plus. I am not ending this podcast without giving Meet Miley Cyrus some form of a nay. I think that album shreds. I mean, right here, it's not time for this. Right here sounds like hunger strike by Temple of the Dog.

Like, you understand, and then it turns into like a smashing pumpkin song. You totally understand why she got up and did the Chris Cornell thing. This is the roots of her. The snares in your face, like the guitars and melodies kick-ass. This album is at worst in a-minus.

And so it shall be the official grade. I would love to stay here all day, Nathan, and talk to you about how me, Myly Cyrus is punk as fuck, which it is. Luckily, we're going to be back next week. We're going to get into breakout. And I think based on some of what you've said here, I'm very curious to hear your thoughts. This has been an absolute delight to start our Miley journey in this. place to get you ripping off Hannah Montana takes. I will never forget it, frankly.

So this has been every single album. It has also been a true joy in my podcasting career. I'm Nora Preciati. As always, he's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kaya McMullen for producing this episode. And we will talk to you about breakout next week.