Every Single Album - The Eras Tour | Every Single Album: Taylor Swift

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Nora and Nathan talk about Taylor Swift's recently announced 52-date stadium tour and how she'll possibly fit her catalogue of songs into one show (1:00). Then, they each build their ideal setlist (21:57). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The time has come to get ready for the 2022 World Cup. And what better way to prepare than by revisiting the World Cup's most amazing goals? I'm Brian Phillips. I'm making a podcast about the history of the men's World Cup, told through the stories of 22 iconic goals. The show's called 22 Goals. It's out now on the Ringer Podcast Network, and we're having so much fun. Hi guys, it's Nathan and Nora.

It is Friday morning, November 11th. Why does she do this to us? We got scooped again. You're about to hear at every single album episode with our dream set lists for the Ares Tour, which we recorded yesterday afternoon. Between then and now, what did Taylor do, Nathan?

Screwed us. She added 17 more shows. There's 52 shows. She gifted. us 17 more shows. But for the purposes of this podcast, there are a few things that it might change. Not the set lists.

But yes, there are 52 shows. Is that right? Across 20 locations. 52 shows in 20 locations, including five stadiums in Los Angeles to end the tour, which is not coincidentally one more than BTS played a year ago here that everybody was all. buzzed about. I mean, she is taking over. She's going to set some records. Yeah, she's going to set some

major records. She's going to set some big records with this thing. Because look, we talk in this episode about how she didn't do a residency, but she sort of is now. I mean, she's only playing 20 markets. Most 52-date stadium tours play 52 markets, right? So there is interestingly going to be a lot of travel to these locations. And she added shows in the same spot, which means her cost stay low, right? Because she doesn't have to load in and load out. So all those people in Washington, D.C., who are like, hey, why isn't she coming here? Well, she made a decision about what were those markets that could give her some contiguous dates here. This has been the plan from the beginning, to be clear. When we saw those first few dates, we knew there was more coming and that they were

going to book more around the weekend. But interestingly here, Nora, I mean, look at it. I mean, at the schedule, there's only one break longer than six days. It's mostly just a few days off. There's an 11-day break in April after she plays Dallas before she goes to Tampa. But what we're going to talk about here is the set list. And I think it does make a difference because she's going to play a lot. And so the idea that she could do 27-song, 30-song set-less, and then the next night do it again and then two days later do it again. It's just not a reasonable expectation for her to be able to do over the course of basically five straight months, right?

It does change a little bit how much she's going to be able to pack in. I'm with you there, but so we, I think this is fair to spoil for the episode. We both landed 20-ish songs, some of which would be longer than your average song, right? Because we each had a couple medleys or some other stuff that lengthens out a song. I think that is the right amount. Yeah. I think that is roughly the show that she will do. Because I think that that is the...

I agree with you. I don't think she can do a 30-plus songs that list. It's just not physically wise. It's not physically wise, but it also means that the exercise that you and I are about to go through in the upcoming episode is just that much harder

because it means you really have to cut down. She may not be able to do 22. She may have to stick to the sort of historical 19 just to get in and out of there and protect her voice. Yeah, I mean, that's not hugely, hugely different, right? A 19-19, I think there were 19 songs on the reputation tour. Yes.

So I don't actually think that this changes, this doesn't change for me what I would predict for the set list. What this changes is that there are a couple moments, and we talk about this in the episode, where we sort of were going, we don't think this is quite it, but we were talking about that in terms of maybe she will do some concert halls.

Maybe she will throw in some multi-venue, whatever. Now, could she do a one-off with something? No, it's not happening. Somewhere as a separate thing. This is too much. Fine, maybe, but that's not happening. She's doing a stadium show. She's doing a stadium show, that's it. The only question is going to be,

is there something different each night? Does the set list change up a little bit? But there's literally no space in here for anything else. And so the fun and difficult conversation is going to be, what are you going to cut? In some cases, you might, you know, will folklore and Evermore play well in the stadium? Is she going to overweight on Lover and Midnights? Because we haven't seen those more sort of stadium-esque albums before. Or is she going to-

No such thing? Is she going to distribute evenly across the eras? And that's the fun of the episode that we're about to do. Yeah. So we just wanted to hop on, talk a little bit about this very exciting development. I mean, look, one of the headlines from her announcing more shows is that more people are going to get to see this tour. And I think that's really cool. Yeah. And it's probably going to drive down prices in the market too. Because it'll take some demand out of the market. So don't be fooled you at home. If you don't get tickets on the on sale, don't go rush into the secondary market right away. Those are going to be. people trying to take advantage of you. Take a breath. We've got a little bit of time to see how the economy plays out, how the sales play out, all that. That money's not going to Taylor anyway if you're not buying it directly through the Ticketmaster on sales. So try your best and just remember that more people want these tickets than there is availability. But don't be a sucker. Wait and see how things play out

before you go and buy the secondary tickets. PSA. Without further ado. Let's get to this episode where I totally kicked Nathan's butt and coming up with a dream set list for the Midnight's tour. No, you didn't. I very much did. No, you didn't. Hello, and welcome to every single album, Taylor Swift. I'm Norvind Diotti. I am here with Nathan Hubbard.

As always, Nathan has graciously interrupted his nonstop listening to all of the anti-hero remixes to attend this podcast recording. Thank you so much, Nathan, for being here. You said it best. Somebody put eyes on Elvira. Keep her away from this song. How many remixes are we? There's like five of them now. I can't listen to like three. I can't figure out where to find like three of them. I'll keep you guys posted on that one because they're just on her website. I'm not downloading something. I'm sorry, Taylor. I'm just not doing it. I'll wait until they percolate into other spaces of the world. But yeah. Can we get producer Kyya to do a? Producer Kyya remixed. Bev remix? Bev remix.

I'm surprised there isn't already a Bev remix. I'm burying the lead here, though, which is this is the first pod that we've done since the Erez tour was announced. She did scoop us a little bit on the tour. Taylor, come on. Throw us a bone next time. Work with us.

This entire, like, since the beginning of us potting sort of around midnights, we've been taping pods and then just like crossing our fingers that nothing was going to happen while Kaya cooks up all the magic behind the scenes before they go out into the world. And we were doing- Well, we're screwed. We knew we would be screwed.

But we were doing so well. Like every time before the album came out, every single time, it was like, oh, my God, is she going to drop a single? Is she going to drop a single? And we were always okay. And then all of a sudden, just the tour really got us. But we're so excited. Nathan, what do you think about what we have learned so far about?

what the Ares Tour is going to look like. It's in stadiums. I believe right now there's... What else do we know? What else do we know? Something dates? Well... Yeah.

There's 35. She added eight on top of 27. Right. A lot of weekends only. Still feels like there's some space in that calendar to add a few more things. Nathan is a conspiracy theorist who just refuses to believe that this is a stadium-only tour. I'm hoping that it's...

not a stadium-only tour. And I'll tell you why, because in this exercise that you're going to talk a little bit about that you made me do, that has sucked the life out of me, I realized how insane it is to try to put together

a tour that has a limited number of slots over basically two hours to cover everything that's been missing. Like all of the things that I've been worried about related to how all of these puzzle pieces are going to fit together was brought front and center through this exercise that you put us through.

So maybe you should talk about the exercise first. Okay, yeah. So I'll explain what we're going to do. And then I do have just one thought on how this all seems to be panning out. But we are going to share our dream set lists for the heiress tour. We talked about the fact that, you know, something around the 20-song range would be appropriate because that's what the reputation tour was.

That's what the 1989 tour was, if you counted the surprise guest songs. And we didn't talk about it all that much beyond that. So in terms... Yeah, this is not... You're going to be very disappointed in me today. So there is... You know, I have questions about, like, how chronological does an era's tour have to be, right? Like, can you skip around and try to just develop certain themes in certain parts

the show, or does it really have to be, like, we start from the beginning, we go to the end. She has so much sort of creative freedom with this, and it could go so many ways. Yeah, this is, I mean, this is the thing. It's like, she's got 10 albums. It means if she really only plays 20 songs, and let's be clear, like, Beyonce at Coachella did 32 songs. Jay-Z set list from the last tour, 20. Prince, like, in his peak in 2011, was playing 27.

Springsteen, who's also known for playing forever, plays 27. Harry on this last tour was playing 18. U2, 24. So there's something between, like, 19 songs. I don't know. Do we count, how do we count a mash-up? So I counted it as one. So you counted.

And that's operative, because some of these things can be long. So you counted style, love story, you belong with me, mashup is one song. I counted that as one from the reputation tour. Okay. As did I count, we are never, this is why we can't have nice things. Like, that was one, too. How do you count when she brings out Candace and Gigi and Martha and Uzo and Bahadi and Lily and Carly on the runway? Is that a song?

It's not a, well, sometimes that was during style, right? We did one time. Let's not forget that all of those people came out July 11th at MetLife Stadium after Nick Jonas came up and saying jealous with her. Okay. I was watching. That's not happening again. I was watching a TikTok of the Wiz Khalifa See You Again performance from that tour. That was so good. Well, there was a lot that was great from that tour. It was so good. Like, she sounds so great. They also both look super happy.

Like, they just look like they're having a good time. It was good stuff. Good stuff. Well, it's not fun about being in front of 100,000 people. But the thing about the, just spacing of this, right? It's like 10 albums, it basically means if there's 20 songs, she only can play two songs per album on average, or like two hours. It would mean like 12 minutes per era.

So I actually think, I mean, I think we're in for a bunch of mashups, Nora. I think we're in for a bunch of mashups. I don't think there's any way to do this without turning it into like the Katie Perry Vegas show where we're going to get like somewhere between 45 and two and a half minute snippets of a lot of stuff. I will be curious to see if. you think at the end of when I share my set list, if you think it tracks to you as something that would sound like a lot of mashups or not. I don't, I don't want to spoil further than that, but that's an interesting question. But this is where the artistic direction comes in,

because will the mashups be within eras or will they be across eras? Because intuitively, you think, like in my head, I can see the costume changes, like, all the stuff has to be within eras. It would be weird for her to be in the like red circus costume singing anti-hero. And so intuitively for me, I feel like this is going to be more like a Broadway show with a series of acts, right? The reputation tour had like six acts. They started with videos and they sort of rolled. You could see those costume changes, the aesthetic changes on stage, probably again, an intro video with a bunch of the defining moments in media. But maybe she could group some of the eras together. Like maybe as we went through in the,

whole, every single album, Taylor Swift, canon, like Taylor Swift, Fearless and Speak Now are grouped together. And then a red moment. And then 1989 rep and lover. And then cottage core. And then you let some of the midnight songs shine. So maybe you have five acts and eras. But then like chronologically,

doesn't she have to play the 10 minute all too well? Where's that going to go? So, okay. I think we should just get started and do this thing because I'm excited to talk. about it and I don't feel like I can answer your questions without spoiling the set list. But I want to say one thing before we get there is that you and I had a lot of conversations about this tour when we didn't know it was the Erez tour, didn't totally know what shape it was going to take about this as an opportunity for disruption and innovation and for her

to do something different and interesting in the live event space. And I don't know to this point like the desire to see that has been full-fellation. filled, right? In some ways, she is doing, in most ways, she is doing a completely traditional, standard stadium tour. There is a part of me that is curious to see, of course, what it would look like if she chose to do something different, fresh, innovative, new. I think one, just because it might give an opportunity for some of the quieter, more stripped down stuff from folklore and evermore to have a more appropriate showcase than a stadium. That would be a more. That would be cool. It also would be cool just from the perspective of loving concerts and being fascinated

by what someone with her platform, her creative abilities, her power in the industry would do if they tried to do that. But the more I think about it, the more I think a stadium tour is cool. I think it's cool that she's doing this for a couple of reasons. One, this is the best way for the most people to see her do this really cool thing. We don't live in a content world anymore where there are that many things that people can coalesce around. And in pop music, Taylor Swift is one of the few entities that can do that. I think there's something about her not just, I live in New York City. If she did 10 days in New York, like if she did the Harry Styles thing, that is really good for me as a consumer.

But I think it sucks for a lot of people. And there's something about it that makes me happy that she didn't do that and that she's going to work her butt off. But she's not going to that many places. She's going to a lot more places than New York, Los Angeles and Chicago. 15 instead of five. But yeah. That's three times as many and she's going to go. Like, that's a really big difference.

Okay. It's a really big difference. I think it's meaningful. And it's harder. Like, I think it's cool about this pop star. being like, you know what? I'm going to do a two plus hour show and let myself across the country for however a lot.

Like, I'm grateful that a person of her stature who doesn't have to do that is still willing to. And that's all I want to. I just, I've thought about that a lot since the initial, like, man, it would have been cool if these were a little, like, satellite residences in a couple places moment. I don't even care about the satellite residency piece. What I want to see, and I just, I reject that we're going to get a 20-song normal stadium show that's just one song after another. And I'm excited to hear your set list.

But I don't, I think she's going to do something different because she has to. Candidly, because, like, Ivy is not going to play so well to the 500 level up in the rafters of Gillette. and that may be because there's going to be a B and a C and a D stage that's up in the 500 level where she plays or something. There's going to be something different than a here are 20 songs from, you know, a retrospective across my catalog. The way that she performs these is,

who knows, maybe she's going to play the women's bathroom at 4 p.m. before the show. I don't know what's going to happen. But this is not, there's no way. I refuse to accept. that this is just going to be a normal show, you know, front to back 20 songs. That said, sounds like you got 20 songs to talk about.

Nathan, I have. Well, yeah, maybe. That might be right. That might be wrong. Let's do it. And we can revisit some of this stuff at the end if it answers any questions or it doesn't. You want me to go first or do you want to share yours first?

No, I want you to start because... All right. All right, let's do it. So the way that I did this, is initially I just went through all of her entire discography with an eye towards, okay, what I know is that it's going to be in stadiums. I'm thinking a little bit about like what makes sense. But I am, you know, this is my dream set list.

So I'm thinking about what I want to hear in that context. Did the fact that, I mean, I had at least 50 candidates. I had 54 songs. Okay, there you go. So the fact that it is in the stadium, did it kill a song for you that otherwise you would have definitely wanted to hear, needed to hear? Yes. There are some, like, Ivy is a really good example of that. You kill Ivy? Ivy's not on my set list.

Damn you. So. I'm quitting this already. Goodbye. Well, so there's actually an asterisk there. Can you just let me do this? Probably not. It's not what we do. All right. So, first of all, the more I thought about it, eras implies some degree of chronology to me, but this show's got to start with midnights. Really? I think it's got to start and to some extent end with midnights. So I think in my show, she...

You're starting with lavender haze. I'm starting with lavender haze. I'm starting with lavender haze and bejeweled. She comes up. Everybody rocks out. You're like totally buzzing by the end of those two songs. And then that's when she stops and does the, Hi, I'm Taylor.

And everyone's like, we know. Like, we had to sign up on the little computer thing and get somebody's capital one card to get the tickets. We know your Taylor. Well, good evening, New York. I'm Taylor. And then she talks and she's very charming and she introduces the show and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then I think, because the third song is usually a moment, right? So I think she's going to give her little spiel. And then at the end of it, she's going to be like, so I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's me. And then she does anti-hero. Okay. Here we go. And so that is sort of the,

that's the opening sequence of the show. Then I have five acts. And the first act, I called them, I named them, you know how sometimes she'll do those like chapter playlists on Spotify? Yes.

I named them like that. So act one is the play it again chapter. And that's where, we're covering debut, Fearless, and Speak Now, essentially. Okay, so you are grouping those together. Okay.

How many songs are coming out of play it again? So it's short. I felt that because, like, debut is a little bit of a weird fit. But I think she's got to acknowledge it. If this is the era, she's got to acknowledge it. And I think that our song would be a really, really good sing-along.

And it would work really, really well in a big stadium. It feels like something she could very naturally sing with all of her fans summer 2020. Like I can see that. So act one starts with our song. Then first medley. It's fearless, sparks fly and mine. So we can mix. We can mix. We're mixing albums, right? Like, we're mixing Fearless and Speak Now. Okay. And then she's playing Love Story. She's playing Love Story front to back. She's played it.

Like, we've heard it on tours before. I don't care. Like, everybody wants to hear it. And there was an iteration of this where I had Love Story as part of the medley. First of all, it's already been part of a medley on the last tour that she did. I don't want to do it again. I want to hear Love Story. Straight out and open.

That's the play. again chapter. Okay. Fearless sparks fly and mine. Um, why sparks fly? Because it's a banger. All right. I mean, okay. Do you need any more answer? Like that, like that, I love that song. And it's, it's, that song is a pocket of, no. That kind of surprised me. I don't, here's the thing. Fearless as an album is about love story and you belong with me. I like those vault songs. They're fun. some of them I go back to. I don't go back to them anywhere near as much as the Red Vault songs. That album and the success of Taylor's version of Fearless is that there was enough fidelity

and actually enough improvement in her vocal on Love Story and You Belong With Me, that those versions stand in and maybe in some ways even improve upon. Are you going to really leave off you belong with me from the Play It Again chapter? I did because it's not as important as, love story and it was in the medley from reputation. Hmm. And I'd rather, like, mine is such a special song, because, you know, it could have been, you could swap that out for mine, right?

But, like, mine is a really special song. And I think it's a little bit more of a nod. Like, that's the nod to the hardcore fans. And then the fact that she's doing love story in its entirety is the nod to everybody. All right. So that's act one. just I just So mine as a song

Okay I got it This is really your dream Yeah Like Okay I mean Mine as a song

Has had a lot of performances Relative to everything else historically I mean like She's played mine a lot It's been a while Mm-hmm It's also been a while And

how often do we see that you made a rebel of a careless man's careful daughter line held up as like that was a moment when people who were really paying attention just went oh holy crap this person can put a novel's worth of storytelling into eight seconds of a song and that matters to me and I would be personally very happy to see that showcased as she's showcasing all of her different heiress. Yeah, I just, listen, you belong with me. It's the third most played song that she's ever done. It's interesting.

Now, of course, some of the older stuff has had more opportunity to be played. But that's, leaving that off is a big deal. Okay, you're making choices. Listen, we've only got 20-ish slots. And that was a, that was a choice. Yeah, it's a choice. There was absolutely a literal moment where I had written out, you belong with me, and then press the delete.

on my Google Doc, right? Like, I definitely thought about that. But I don't want this to be, I don't want this to just be greatest hits by the numbers. It's because it just, it's not as creative if she does that. If she just essentially creates a set list

based on, okay, if I go to Spotify and rank by which songs have been played the most and choose from that, like it just, you just lose, you lose a little bit of creativity, you lose a little bit of getting to see it as her vision, as opposed to just what kind of the market selects.

So I definitely thought about that, and I thought about it with that specific song. But love stories there, you belong with me, is not there. Let me just ask you, how did you make choices to live off, or to leave off Dear John and back to December? So back to December is, I thought about both of those. Dear John felt odd. I just felt like the vibe of that would be odd.

There are a couple things like, I'll spoil, 22 is not on the set list. And you've actually asked me the question of can she credibly sing to 80,000 people? I don't know about you, but I'm feeling 22 in the year. 2003 at the age of 32 and have it seem right. And I've always answered that in the affirmative. And I stand by that. But it did, I was sort of surprised it did turn out to be enough of a factor where I was like, oh, maybe there's something odd about that.

Maybe when, when forced to make all of these really, really difficult decisions, maybe it gets knocked off there. What if she mashes it up with would have, could have should have? So. it would be incredible. I mean, that's got to be on the table. It's so chaotic. The chaotic energy of doing that and unleashing that into the universe would just be wild.

But man, oh man, if she did that, I would certainly tip my cap. I think that would be embracing controversy to a degree that I don't know if, if I were, say, her publicist, I would deem wise, but it would be, it would certainly be a moment. I mean, what are we talking about? She's, she, here's, no, you lose, she has plausible deniability by the skin of her teeth, but she has it. She does that. She does not have it. What if she puts out Taylor's version of speak now between now and then?

Does that change how you think about what she features? Deep sigh. Yeah, I don't know. I thought about that a lot and I think it's just hard for me to answer without hearing it. You had asked about back to December. The reason I left it off is because the back to December mashup with Apologize was such a moment on that tour. And that exists in live album format and is something that gets play for me. And I just, I feel like that song has had a really big tour moment.

And so it felt easier for me to go, okay, I don't need this. she's certainly been hat-tipping some some enchanted too, right? She said, I'm enchanted to, like, so they're, uh-huh, but. And that is another one where that song in Wildest Dreams had, I mean, that is literally one of my favorite Taylor Live performances ever is that mashup from the 1989 tour. So that is something that I could see changing, right? like do we get enchanted, which is one of my absolute favorite Taylor Swift songs, do we get it in a way where it just sort of feels essential,

even though it already had that moment? Maybe. Maybe if we get Speak Now, Taylor's version soon. Or maybe there's a vault song from there, right? Like I do think that, and we can talk about this in my act too, I do think that there will probably be a moment or two where she chooses to showcase some vault songs so that people know about them, you know, to give some songs that people like a little bit more of a platform and a showcase. I just don't know if there's enough time. We're talking about

10 to 12 minutes in era. Max. Well, okay. So can I give you, can I give you my act too? Please. What's it called, first of all? It's called the reminiscing just the other day chapter. And it starts with holy ground. one, I want to hear one of those red stadium bangers on this tour. And I thought about State of Grace. I thought about Holy Ground. And I'll be honest with you, the tiebreaker was, I just think it's cool for her to sing I was reminiscing just the other day. Okay.

On the Erez tour at the beginning of this new sequence. These songs are very similar. She could also mash them up. Yeah. But I also, in the same way that that's true, she doesn't need to. With some exceptions of people for whom one of those is their absolute favorite song, I think more people are leaving that show going,

oh man, holy ground sounded great. That was so cool to hear that song in a stadium. Then are going, man, she didn't play State of Grace. Like, I don't think that's a big, a big population who's walking out of there, disappointed in the tour because that song wasn't on the set list. The next song, this is this is sort of what I was alluding to. What about message in a bottle? Hmm.

One of the most streamed songs on Red Taylor's version. A song that's performed very, very well, but it's a vault song. It's not all too well 10 minute version. Nobody's, you know, nobody's aggregating tweets about it. Why not girl at home? Can you imagine? No. There's a version of this.

There's a version of this that's just like, the troll version of the bearist torso. There's a super troll version of this. But listen, you're not that far off. That would be a shocker if she did message in a bottle. So there was an iteration. I think she's more likely to sing the police version of message in a bottle. That would be something.

I don't know. If she does that, that song is already clearly on some level, resonating with people. People like listening to that song. There is data that proves that people like listening to that song. She's got to know that. It can't all, I really don't think it can all be greatest hits. Now, the song that I initially had in that spot and took off to make room for a vault track that's like a real vault track that's not all too well 10 was red. And so if she wanted to play red instead of message in a bottle. I'm more than cool with that.

But I go for it. Just set the stage for me here. Have we had a costume change between play it again and the reminiscing just the other, like what's going on on the stage? What are we getting visually now? So you're going to hear where I'm going in this chapter. And it goes, it goes pretty far forward pretty quickly.

So I don't think that she's wearing like the marching band outfit from the Red Tour. I can see some of that iconography being on the video screen and us seeing that. I don't think she's playing dress up. But I do think that there's probably like she could wear the same thing for act one and act two. but I think there's probably some visual distinction from the beginning of the show where she comes out and does midnight stuff and we really have that midnight's aesthetic.

I think there's something that takes it back in time a little bit. You know, I don't love opening with Midnights, but the extent to which we think about Midnights as being an album where she reflects on all the other eras, you could see her sort of weaving that visually and from a narrative perspective into starting with Midnights, talking about how this is an album of sort of reflecting on eras

and then sort of going into the time warp time machine back to where she started. So I don't love, I get that you, there's a great TikTok with the guy like opening with Lavender Hayes and she like responded

not no or something. She's, we got to get her off TikTok. She's going to give away all the secrets. She's, I think she's been Taylor King is back. It seems to be back.

Taylor King seems to be back. Yeah, I just think people want to hear it. I think this album has been so successful that it's hard for me to see her getting up there and opening with stuff from 2008. You know, it's really... I'm excited to hear about it. I'm excited to hear about the possibilities. But okay, can I finish Act 2 for you?

I want you to. Messaging a bottle is eight. Yeah. And message in a bottle also, it helps us because it, we have a little bit of connective tissue to, oh, we're going pop. Then we have our second medley. And it's, I knew you were trouble, blank space, and shake it off. Which, by the way, those three songs were in the middle of that AMA's performance she did in 2019 when she won artist of the decade.

That's not really super relevant. They can, you know, they can arrange whatever they want to arrange whenever they want to do it. But there's a little bit of proof of concept. She's done these three songs as a medley as part of a medley before. I mean you were troubled blank space and... And shake it off. Yeah. And I think that is sort of...

You're jamming a lot into the one song. That's like five, six minutes right there? Yeah. It's probably like six minutes long. Hmm. We have to fast forward. The theme that's emerging, the theme that's emerging for you here is that you're, you're introducing, okay, you're introducing some non-traditional elements into the set list,

and then she's checking some boxes on some songs that sort of have to be in there. That's an interesting approach. Okay. And I don't, but like that to me is not at all pejorative, right? Like, checking the love story box is a genuine value ad. checking the blank space box is a genuine value ad. Now, when we've never heard Lover Live, when we've never heard folklore evermore,

when we've never heard Midnights, I do think you have to speed through some of that stuff. Yeah, because we're almost halfway through the show. I mean, with your next song, it's going to be the 10th song here. And my next song is Getaway Car. Which means that blank space and shake it off, which don't get their own spots. They're part of a medley.

Those are the representatives of 1989. Okay. And it surprised me a little bit that that happened. I mean, it surprises me that you didn't put New Romantics into your dream set list. I know. What is going on? New Romantics was, what, the second song on the 1989 tour? like it baffles me that that song was a bonus track,

was a Target Deluxe Edition bonus track in a way that equals my bafflement at, I mean, I understand the business elements of it, but new romantics and hits different, like, oh my goodness. Yeah. But the one instance in which you could clearly see her being like, okay, my bad, I know this song slaps and you guys love it, is how high on the set list new Romantics was in the 1989 tour.

And I'm choosing to just to hold that memory dear and say, okay, we've done it. We've done it. We're halfway through the show. We're in the reminiscing just the other day section. And that has some red. It has some box checking on 1989. And you've just gotten about halfway through the show. you've just delivered getaway car as a standalone.

Where are you going now? So now we go to Act 3. Costume change? I think costume change. I think costume change because this is a bit of a... It's not totally campy, but Act 3 is called the Don't Get Sad, Get Even chapter. Okay.

Because for as much as Taylor's had these album eras, you know, we talk about Taylor's reputation era. Taylor's reputation era, yes, is that album. Taylor's reputation era pops up from now and again, right? Like, once in a while, she just delivers you a song that says, I've got a real. Well, that's an example in one way, but also, uh, just sometimes she wants to talk about revenge. Yes. And I tried to encapsulate a lot of that in this act. So, first of all, I want a look what you made me do. musical interlude. Oh,

look what you made me do. Look what you made me do. As she's like done her costume change and she's coming back, I want a little bit of the sound of that to be sort of soundtracking the transition. Then. Musical interlude, okay? Then. Karma.

Oh, boy. We're playing karma. And then at the end, I want just a little. little bit on the outro. I didn't call this a medley. I don't think this counts as a medley. But I want the outro of mean. Why you gotta be so mean?

I want her to do karma and then just throw in like eight bars of mean at the end. I want it to be like, me and karma vibe like that. Because someday I'll be living in a big old city. It would just slap. So we're doing that. Okay. I like it. Then, third medley.

I did something bad. Nobody, no crime. Vigilante shit. What? Come on. That would be fun. That would be fun as heck. Wow.

And then, what have could have should have? Just, geez. Geez, I'm just like, I'm just, I'm stunned. I'm stunned. But I'm with you. Are you stunned because of the amount of midnights that popped up in there?

Here's what I'm stunned by. I think we're off the rails in terms... Oh my God, we're so on the rails right now. We're on such good rails. That's fine. I'm just very surprised to see you the way in which you are interpreting eras because you have now stitched together reputation

evermore and midnight's into a single sort of track which is fascinating it's fascinating look Taylor Swift

it's funny we've talked about how whenever she has an album we're all so nervous about it in spite of the fact that she has never once disappointed us I feel the opposite about her tours

if I know that she is doing like a big production, I feel very confident that this is a person who is going to deliver. Okay. So if you told me it's the Erez tour, it's going to be completely chronological, I would be like, okay, she's got a vision and it's going to be really cool and she's going to do it and it'll be really, really fun to go on that journey with her and she'll do it in a really good way. And I trust that if she thinks that's right, it's a good creative choice. Okay. It was really hard for me to get, I could not get there. I don't think, first of all, I just, there's a lot of stuff that we haven't heard and that's tough. Also, Midnights is the album right now. We gotta hear a lot

of Midnights and we ought to hear a decent amount of lover on this tour, I think. Okay. I mean, never mind that there's the little small detail of the album of the year in folklore. Yes, true. Anyway, let's keep going on this. It's just a fascinating way these things. Look, my thinking on this is maybe biased by the tour poster, which seems, and to be honest, the bejewed video. Yes.

And the parkening to the lover, snow globe, totally. Each of these albums and eras, like, costume-wise, you know, just aesthetically into its own box, its own box, it's in its own thing. It's in its own room in the house. Totally. The back and forth sort of cross-mixing cross-pollination is interesting, and my mind is open to it. And frankly, there's a part of it that I hope that she does. But when you think about how to make that a visual show as opposed to the playlist that we put on at the party,

I think it becomes difficult to sort of distinguish and create this feel of eras. But I love what you're doing. I don't want to interrupt your flow right now. We just did what or coulda shoulda. That's the 14th song on the set list and the Don't Get Sad Get Even. What else we got in this chapter? So I just want to respond to a tiny bit of that.

I'm with you. And the number one thing that gave me pause was thinking about some of the aesthetics around the poster and how much it seems like she's separated the eras. But I'm doing a little bit of, I'm doing a little bit of vibe checking with the songs that go into the chapters, right?

Like, I don't think that there's anything here that I can't see an aesthetic working for everything. And so, like, no, are the songs in the Don't Get Sad, Get Even chapter? Do they correspond with a specific album? No. But can you construct an aesthetic that, works for that set. Yes, I actually think very easily. And when you're, you know, feeling like a total badass after the I did something bad, nobody, no crime vigilante shit mash up, aren't you just so ready to scream what have, could have, should have with her at the top of your lungs and just feel

the catharsis of that kind of anger and satisfaction and expressing it? I think it was my choice to be like, I think there's a way to make this work. And I think it's a more creatively interesting show than just doing things in order. So that's where I am. You asked about folklore evermore. And I think after we've all, yeah, I think after we've all just like felt all of our feelings at the end of the Don't Get Sad, Get Even chapter. I think that this is when she, you know, strips it all back and does. an acoustic set.

Okay. And this is where I think it's a little bit of a surprise song kind of situation, or there's a bunch of songs that are in a rotation, because I do think that if there isn't some other alternate showcase, I think at some point there has to be an acknowledgement of there are songs on folklore and evermore that just are not going to be at their best in this context. and that's tough, but choose them wisely and don't force it. So my thought is that it's a four-song set.

Okay. My picks for those songs were Death by a Thousand Cuts. Betty. But if I just short up. Let's your party. Would you have me? Would you want me? Lover.

Can I go? And the all too well 10 minute version. In the acoustic set, death by a thousand cuts, Betty, Lover. Lover. All too L 10.

Okay. You are drunk. I'm so not drunk. Because you know what? All of those songs work. Just her and a guitar her and a piano, but everybody can sing them.

There's still good songs to play in a stadium. You can, I can hear all of that. I can hear the showed about your party part in Betty, like really, really slapping for tens of thousands of people. Now, if you wanted to swap in for, I think all too well, 10 minutes stays as the end of that set every single night. But if you want to start swapping, swap in sweet nothing. Swap in Cornelius Street.

Swap in Better Man. Sometimes it I just miss you and I just wish you. Like, change those up from night to night. Use that as an avenue to get more of the folklore, more of the Evermore songs into the tour, even if they're not part of it on a night to night basis. I think that's your opportunity to do that. Hmm. Okay. I just want to point out that if she plays all too well 10-minute version,

that is like 10% of the show. That's fine. Okay. And you think that it's 10 minutes. See, here's the thing. It's an interesting idea. Like, I like the notion of her sort of like feet dangling off the stage with an acoustic guitar just doing 10-minute version of all too well.

Think about SNL. But so much of that song is, and the reason that it doesn't feel like 10 minutes of the same shit over and over and over again is because sonically, the stuff that's happening, honestly, Jack Antonoff, production stuff made it feel like there were a number of chapters and it kept it fresh. It didn't feel like a 10-minute thing. But you know what else would keep it fresh is if she plays the movie? Like in the background? Yeah. Like think about the SNL performance. Yeah, but there was,

she had more of the band than just the acoustic guitar. But, you know, there's not a ton of acoustic in 10 minute all too well. She can incorporate the band a little bit if she wants to, right? Like, I'm not saying that every- She's Taylor fucking Swift. She can do whatever the hell she wants to do. She can do whatever the hell she wants. I think aesthetically,

this is the best place for that song. I think she's got to do it. I would almost, honestly, I would, that is almost more of like, I think she has to than I really, really need her. But I think she has to do it. And I think it works best

if it's in the most intimate part of the show. And I think this is that. If she wants it to be like, I'm going to do a true acoustic set of these like three sort of rotating songs from like a little bit of lover, some folklore, some evermore, and have those be truly just Taylor guitar, Taylor piano. And then, oh, by the way, we're also going to do all too well,

10 minute version. And there's going to be a little bit more help from the band, help from production on that. I am totally fine with that. And I think it would, I think they could make that flow really, really easily because it's still this sort of like emotional. let's slow things down part of the performance.

Well, we don't have a lot of time left after you're done with this. We're on song 18. We've just had a 10-minute version of a song on song 18. How many songs do we have left here? So we get to Act 5. Okay. Act 5 is three songs long. It is called The None of It Was Accidental Chapter.

It begins with long story short. A song I love from Evermore and would love to hear on this tour. And I think it's sort of nicely referential to, like, everything sort of comes back and puts you in the place where you're meant to be, right? Like, long story short, it was the wrong guy as funny in the context of a show where we've heard all of these old stories of hers as she goes through the set list. It is a little bit of prelude to one of my favorite songs, one of the songs that is currently on the most, the heaviest rotation for Midnight's. mastermind. Okay. What if I told you none of it was accidental

and the first night that you saw me, nothing was gonna stop me. And then, the end of Act 5, the end of the final act of the show, closes with emotional sing-along, everybody doing you're on your own kid.

Huge. spectacle. Maybe people are crying. It's so like, it's a little gut wrenching, but it's also really powerful. And everybody's having a great time. And she sounds great. And everybody's singing the chorus together. She waves. She goes down below the stage. The lights go down. And there's a, you know, a hush falls over the crowd. And everybody's waiting. And then all of a sudden, she's back. Encore. Cruel summer. End of show. Best thing you've ever seen.

Everybody's going home on Cloud 9 because they heard Cruel Summer. Just one song encore. One song encore, Cruel Summer. What else do you need? It's like two minutes and 40 seconds long. It doesn't matter.

She could play it twice. She could do the Kiwi thing. I mean, I... You're like speechless. I'm speechless. You put some things in this set list that I'm absolutely stunned by. but I'm open to it all.

I think that you've been day drinking. Listen, you're on your own kid is really a lot of people are loving that song right now. It's a very... I am among them. I've seen a case for it being one of the best track fives. I would also make that case. Yeah, yeah. So I get that you would want to slip it into the set list in this way.

I want to talk about. what didn't make it for you. Okay. I love how flabbergasted you are right now. I really am. After our total group thing on the Midnight's reference rankings, this is very satisfying to me. Yeah.

I mean, first of all, how bummed would you be about like a karma you need to calm down mix instead? Like as a mashup. Not bummed at all. Yeah. Not bummed whatsoever. I actually would really love to hear

you need to calm down. some, like, it's not essential to me, but I think that would be a very fun song to hear live. Well, there's a piece of me that thought also that maybe we should she should just do a me mashup with like the song

Me. Anti-hero. I'm the problem. It's me. Last great American dynasty would, like, or she comes out of the bridge and is like, and then it was bought by me. Me. Right. And then you belong with me.

Like, if she's going to go across eras, maybe she goes sort of thematically to that. She's doing like slam poetry now? Who knows? Who knows what's happening on your set list? I mean, this is ridiculous. Look, I... Dude, my set list slabs. I don't know.

This tour rules. I'm just not sure that you've... I'm not sure that you've closed the set pre-cruel summer. You know. The other thing is, yeah, she kind of likes that long outro where she's waving to the crowd and there's fucking confetti.

An encore would be new for her. An encore would be very, very new. And I'm just not sure that, like, Cruel Summer has the outro that does that. But listen, to each their own, Nora, I don't want to, you know, I'm just very, I just don't think that she can limit it

in the way that you've limited it. I think she's going to have to do more mashups because if, you know, and I don't even know if they're mashups so much as just like song snippets rotating through stuff. Because I feel like, you know, if people leave without hearing, I mean, look, at the macro level, the things that I don't agree with you on are order. And I think there's got to be. That it's not chronological enough. Well, it's not just that it's not chronological enough.

I just think, I'll take you through. If you're going to make me do a straight up, like, pick 22 tracks, I can take you through how I think about that. I actually think that we're going to see a lot of costume changes. It's either going to be 10 eras or more likely it's going to be something like five, like we talked about, you know, debut, fearless, speak now. is one, I actually think about red as its own. And then 1989 reputation, lover as a third. But do you really think that after Lover Fest didn't happen? I think there needs to be a little bit of

space for Lover. Like, for instance, I think there needs to be more space for Lover than there needs to be space for 1989 on this. Yeah, I agree with you. Agree or disagree. I totally agree. And the way that I structured just in a straight-up set-list piece, besides all of the, like, silly mash-ups that would cross over. Like, I think it would be interesting if she did an Epiphany Marjorie mashup, right? Grandfather, grandmother. With you, I sir. And if I think you were listening to me now.

Yeah. That might be a nice, like, both sides of the coin, acoustic moment. I also think, and I'll take you through. I think she opens the set. I think she goes chronologically. She should open with Love Story. She should just go for it. Come out and just give them right in the face

and hit him right in the mouth. I'd go Love Story, our song, you belong with me, Dear John, and back to December. I don't recommend that dear John woulda should have had mash up, but I wouldn't mind

if somehow at the end of that she sort of wove that in. Because I'm not sure that Wooda could have should have has total space on the set list even though I absolutely love it. I love it.

So I will tell you, I love that because if she were to do something like this, I like where your head is in particularly for this, this earliest era, not being sort of prisoner

to the format of needing to put a song from debut first. I just don't think that she's starting this tour with our song, right? Like, I just don't think that happens. And Love Story, that's a really, really powerful arrow in her quiver. Because she could start this tour with Love Story, and that would be okay.

So if she's going to do it like this, I think that's spot on. And there's a good drum intro and there's a big band build and like, you'll get crowd singing right away. The aesthetic, you know, on the video boards and the screens can sort of take us through media clips and the sort of Easter eggy stuff like from I just think we're going to get it's going to be highly biographical this show I think potentially but I think your costume changing after that

and then I think you've got to go to the next era you have to start with the song that started it which for us I think was I knew you were trouble and the dubstep right and so for the next sort of section for me we're thinking about it in the same way. Like I knew you were trouble, followed by style. Getaway car. We're never getting back together, although she always seemed to mash that up, but I really want to hear it just as is because it's so goddamn fun. And I just, then I was like, okay, now we have to rotate into something more chill. So I use

delicate for that. Is it cool that I said all that. Is it chill that you're in my head? Because I know that it's delicate. Because I think delicate, because I just think... I will just say that you already have two songs that I'm sad, didn't make my list, which is style and delicate. Okay, so delicate for me,

we hear a lot of delicate in what followed reputation. So I think that that's like a really important song. Some of the roots of Bev are in delicate. Listen for the best. My reputation's never been worse. You must like me for me. How is Bev doing, by the way?

Bev's doing great. You might hear from Bev. But I think Delicate is a good sort of launching off point to sort of transition from some of the pop. Because where I would go from there is then start to scale the show back because we've got to get to a quiet moment. And I think the mashup is New Year's Day and Champagne Problems because they are the same damn song.

I'll be cleaning up bottles with you on new. Left you out there standing, crest falling on the land in champagne problems. And you could really sort of transition from that pop moment into, you know, where I'm going to go from here is into the cottage court. And so you could sort of bridge the gap there by putting those two songs together. The only reason that I think she probably wouldn't do that is because, she's mashed up New Year's Day before, right? And I'm just not totally clear. Can people leave without hearing that song? Can people leave without hearing that song, Nora? Yes. I think people can leave without hearing New Year's Day. I also, I don't want to, I don't really want to hear champagne problems

on this tour. Well, I know you don't. I know you don't. But if we're mashing up songs, those two go together. I know a lot of people like that song. I like that song more than I liked it when I first heard it. Yeah. I don't want her to be a total prisoner to the venue. Right. But I don't think you're maximizing value with the combination of the song and the setting by devoting, even if it's, you know,

even if the total time allotment is a minute and 18 seconds of champagne problems, I just, I think you are wasting a minute and 18 seconds of your tour. Well, I think she's going to, she's going to use that moment to transition into the cottage course stuff. I think it gives her a chance

to be in the spotlight at the piano, which we really don't have much of through the rest of the songs and set list. Yep. And then I think we're rotating into the cottage core, and I do think there's a different stage elsewhere in the stadium, and so maybe you just get this sort of long piano outro on the champagne problems.

You know, she's going to pop up somewhere else, and now we're in an acoustic set. You and I agree on the acoustic set, and actually, we really weren't off too much on what those would be. I would have her do This is Me Trying I'd have her do Ivy She's got to do Betty

In the garden Would you trust me if I told you It was just a summer thing And then I think from there We've got to come out of the quiet acoustic thing And work our way back in for a big finish And I think Gold Rush is the perfect song to do that

I do not I do not want to leave this tour Without hearing Gold Rush I really want to see it In the spot where I have long story short, you could swap that with Gold Rush for sure. Okay. And I have no complaints. Yeah.

So songs 12, 13, 14, 15 are in the sort of let's get to, I get Betty. I don't personally need to hear Betty on this tour. But I think it just says it's one of those that has to be up there. Because it's also, it's a really good sing-along. Right? Everybody doing the, I showed up to your party. Yeah. Did you tell me to go fuck myself? Like, right.

But if I just showed up at your party, would you have me, would you want me? Would you tell me to go fuck myself? No, it's a good, it's a good point. Yep. And I think somewhere in there potentially could be, you know, when she plays with Phoebe, she'll definitely do nothing new in there. Ah, I'm so excited. personal everything at 18 but nothing at 22.

Right. That's actually, I want to hear if you have a sort of a thesis statement about how much to the openers get involved and where they might. Yeah. My overarching thesis here is there's not. There's not enough space. There's not like, we can't have to do it from walk. We cannot have the dude from walk the moon come up and do shut up and dance with me this

tour. It's just not happening. Carly Claus, you are. not invited to the runway. Sorry. Because there's just too much to do here. There will be a runway in the same. Yeah. So look, Gold Rush for me

is the song that is the poppiest. It's the one that gave us a little bit of a hint on what we might hear from midnight. So that to me pulls us back out. And then I'm in the place where you are, which is that you've got to give real visibility to the top songs from Lover

and midnight. Now, I made a decision that will never actually happen, which is that I cut Lover from the set list. She's going to play it. She's going to play it. She has to play it. I'm actually, that this is sometimes by doing these exercises, like we learn things about ourselves and how we really feel about songs. Yeah. I want to hear Lover on this tour so badly. Well, I don't know where this came from. I need her to do it. I was actually listening to, Lover ends that AMA's whole medley that has the I knew you're trouble

into blank space and to shake it off. That's part of my set list. What happens in that medley that she did at that show is then she goes into lover. And I was listening to it. And I was just hearing her play Lover and I was like, I want to be,

I want to go to there. We could leave the Christmas lights up till January. Okay. Listen, you know, this is not my song. I can't get over the Saturday Live Will Ferrell and the hot tub thing. I just can't. It is not unlike your first encounter with a new lover. I just will never be able to let it go.

So in this 16th slot, I have death by a thousand cuts because I really, really, really want to hear it. And I think it's a great, you can see how it would blend out from Gold Rush. into Death by a Thousand Cuts. Shandalee still flickering here because I can't pretend it's okay when it's not. But that's probably the spot where lover is. So can I just ask you one question about that?

Yeah. I also really want to hear Death by A Thousand Cuts just because that's a special song to me. I think Cornelia Street is really, really special to a lot of people. I love Cornelia Street. Death by A Thousand Cuts is, I think, special to me in the way that Cornelia Street is special. to a lot of other people.

I really want to hear that song. If I have the little acoustic section where she's rotating songs, my dream rotation includes death by 1,000 cuts. Right. I'm hearing it more when I imagine what this is like.

I'm hearing it more as the like live from Paris version. Just trying to guitar. I just to kill my tie. I take the long way home. I ask the chopping lights if it'll be all right to say I don't. where it is just her and a guitar.

You have built us back up to a little bit more poppiness, a little bit more production with Gold Rush. Is that continuing in this version of Death by Thousand Cuts? Yes. No, no. I need the base because I think the best part of Death by a Thousand Cuts is the bass on the chorus. And I'm into it.

I need that base because we're going to roll out. Like we've had our little acoustic moment. Now we're powering out. So Gold Rush gets us... You are all about that bass. Gold Rush gets us coming out at 15. Death by 1,000 cuts at 16. Then I'm into bejeweled

because that also has super killer base. Now, you're going to hate my 18th track because you don't like the song. But I don't think there's a way... Okay, but you have all of this goodwill built up for me by playing... The last four songs you've played are Betty Gold Rush,

death by thousand cuts, and bejeweled. So I'm like, this Nathan Hubbard set list is incredible. Yeah, but I don't think that she, that Taylor will do this show without playing The Man. Because of the video. Yeah, I thought about that too. I actually, I don't hate it. Yeah. So I think she's going to go from Bejouled into The Man.

And now what I'm doing is sort of piecing together mostly Lover and Midnight's, with exceptions at the end. But I, but Jewel, she's going to play The Man. I would love her to then play Anti-Hero. Because it's the exact opposite sentiment of the man, right? It's like all of her confidence and then insecurity, all on display in two songs. And then I want to hear Cruel Summer.

And I think from there she's going to, I went with no encore. I'm just assuming if she's got so much to do, we don't have time for that shit. like why be coy let's just power through fill up as much of the time before curfew that she has because all these stadiums have a time that they got to stop

so we're coming out of the man anti-hero cruel summer and I think she's going to play Shake It Off and I think she's going to close this damn thing with 10 minute all too well and what's going to be I think it's the only thing to do is to close it with all too well 10 minutes

and what's kind of nice about that is that it allows her to go around and do the goodbye stuff, right? On the 1989 tour, she closed with Shake It Off, and they had this sort of long outro, right? On reputation, like, she's, she needs that sort of go around the stage, go to all the different parts of the, of the stadium, wave goodbye, sort of taking the, 10 minute all too well is the perfect time to do it. Yeah. And then she can finish with the verse. I was there. I was there. Yep. And then like, it was rare. Yeah. But, but, but, but even in the middle of it. Like in minutes, you know, five to eight, the band can sort of be playing. She can be

going around and doing the waving, all that stuff. The parents with the younger kids might start to file out after the first couple verses because they know, start heading for the parking lot, that kind of thing. And she can sort of go off the stage with it being done. It's impossible for me to hear her not finishing the show with that song. But I'll be wrong. Could be. wrong. That's really interesting. I'm the opposite. I struggle to hear this as a song that could close.

I mean, it's the song. Is it? It's one, like, this is the thing. There's not a the song. There's like four these songs. I think Cruel Summer is more the song than All Too Well 10 is the song. In part

because of the context in which it's going to be heard. And I also don't, I don't want the parents with younger kids Well, they have to. Starting to file out during all-to-L-10. You've got to be locked in during all-to-all-10. I worry that if she puts it in the middle of the show,

it's going to be like when people have the middle song, you know, hey, we're going to play a new one, and then everybody goes to the bathroom. But it's 10-minute all-too-well. I know, but they might. They might be like, well, okay, let's listen to six minutes of all-too-well, and then four minutes of pee. gross.

Well, I mean, you've got to make the... Can you go two and a half hours? I mean, you've got a long-ass show here. I drink a lot of water, like a lot of water as a human. So I'm not a good example for that. Okay. I just... Look, here's what I think we can agree on overall.

I made the joke about the me mashup, but like if the song Me comes anywhere near this stadium show, I am going to have a connipion. I kind of... It would be so funny. It shouldn't. It shouldn't. No, it would not be funny.

But their song... No, it would be really funny. Oh. No, I think it would mean that she didn't get the joke, right? Because you're right. Like, the most precious resource in this stadium show is time. We do not have enough time. We have just gone through set lists.

These are songs that you and I did not put in. Better Man. 22. I know. Out of the woods. You did not have stuff. Ready for it. The one, August.

Call it what you want to. Touch me. It was something, don't you think so? Roaring 20s tossing pennies in the pool. But I can see it's lost in the memory. August slipped away into a moment in time. Because my baby's fit like a day dream walking with his head down. I'm the one he's walking too.

Like, what the paper rings did not make this. You know, Cardigan, which... Cardigan. A massive song. Like I was. More that you say, the less I know, wherever you stray. Which had 10 million remixes, I'm afraid she's going to play... Willow Elvira 90s trend remix.

By the way, the Willow 90s trend remix is the best, is the best of the 8,000 remixes. Just so that we're clear on this. Invisible string, which she could, you know, do something lovely visually, right, in the same way that they did the paper airplanes and out of the woods or whatever. Isn't it just so pretty to think all in long? I love to hear the way I loved you. You know, could have, should have is not a message. Hey, Steve it.

Like, there's a lot that's going to get left. Just 22 songs. So maybe she can stretch it to 24, 25. But the reason Beyonce could play that many songs at Coachella is because she wasn't doing it night in and night out. It was a one-time thing. Like, there's no way, even with the schedule as it is, she's going to play three in a row. And it's hard to imagine that she can do 27, 27, 27. Because by the way, she stretches her voice a bit.

Let's just be honest. On the pop songs, it's not, she sings incredibly well now. But there are times where she really has to lean in to some of these things. It's not like she's just going to be there whispering in the mic like she is on an ever more folklore. So this is a maddening exercise, I just have to say, because of the cuts that have to happen. And as we went through it, by the way, I bet you think about me. We're not going to hear. That was sad for me.

I wanted to try to. I really do hope that there's sort of. kill your cheat and bastard husband medley in here somewhere. And mine was the did something bad, nobody, no crime, vigilante shit. Yeah. I think that just sonically works better. I bet you think about me is a little bit hard to fit in there just because it works so much because it has that like country twang. Yeah. You could kind of get it there with nobody, no crime maybe. That was sad for me that that didn't make an appearance. It's going to be fascinating. Like Bruce Springsteen has performed over 500 songs live.

But this is a production. This is a different thing. Springsteen's been able to do that because he hasn't had the full visual show historically that is expected and required in a stadium show. There's a lot of coordination that has to happen. And so I hope that they can find a way to be more like the Grateful Dead on this tour

than, you know, like the Harry Style show, which is like, you go see the Harry Stiles. style show, you know exactly what it's going to be. Maybe he plays medicine. Maybe he doesn't. I would love for there to be more, oh, she introduced, you know, these four songs on this set list tonight that she didn't the night before.

Yeah, I'm very much with you for that. I do think the appropriate place to be doing that is when she strips it back. And I do think that even though some of these are... That's the way she's historically done it. Right. I want the band to be

ready to go. Like, I want the band to be, we have 40 songs, and the production team's like, we have 40 songs that we could do, not just where Taylor has to carry it and improvising. Because there's some of these songs that, like, we just have not heard enough of them with the full band. So I get that perspective,

and I would love to hear all of these songs with the full band. I guess the reason that I feel that way is because I do think that that, that's the best way to handle the slight. I think she can totally pull it off, but the slight dissonance between the sounds of the folklore and evermore albums and the fact that this is the stadium tour. And I think one of the sort of Kill Your Darling's moments is I just don't think that she can,

I don't think those albums get the airtime that Lover and Midnights get in the setting. I could be completely wrong. but I think that stuff So those are the sacrificial lambs. Evermore and folklore are going to take it in the, you know, they're going to get woodshed, they're going to get old yellered

because we're in a stadium. You don't think she's going to try to sort of synthetically stitch all these things together and present it as an entire body of work to 80,000 people. I mean, I think they're in there. Right?

Like I think, I think, I think they have moments. It's 20% of her catalog. Yeah, and there was a global pandemic. Like, it is a thing that happened and she couldn't go out on the road and she can't play everything. Well, that is the theme

and how she structures these things and the way in which she groups them together, whether she actually, you know, like the visual work on this tour is going to be as much, which work is the band. I mean, the band is tight as hell. Like, they can play anything. Totally. So it's how she chooses to do this. Maybe, maybe the way that she'll innovate is that, you know, she'll play very different set lists over the course of one to three nights that she comes to a stadium.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, look, I think, I think, I think that would be really cool. And it would be cool to have some of that variability allow us to hear the band playing a whole bunch of different songs. Like I, my, where my brain goes is that that's a way to do, to just swap in a bunch of folklore and evermore songs in an acoustic setting, but I'm totally into that because the band slaps and they could, I'm sure they could, you know, they've got her whole catalog back to front, I'm sure. And it would sound incredible. And it would be very fun to hear them do that. By the way, I just realized that karma is not on your cell list. Yeah. Karma's getting played on this tour, Nathan Hubbard. Yeah, I think it probably is.

I understand that. And you got me there with the mashup that you had. But that's why I sort of had karma mixed with me to come down. I was proud of that. I think the mean outro to karma would be really fun. Yeah. Karma's going to get played. But then again,

like you've got to figure out what are you cutting? And in your case, it was you're going to cut some speak now. I didn't do enough mashups. So you could see these things. But I also could see a world, Nora, in which she decides that she's going to play snippets of 40 songs.

And that she turns this. more into like a Broadway show and less of a, you're hearing every song end to end. I'm going to tell a story of my life, you know, from 13 years old until 33. And this is going to basically be a 20-year journey

of my life told through images and some music. Is that the show you want to go to? No, it's not. Yeah, no, me neither. I'm sure she could pull out, Like, in Taylor, we trust. And I really, all of my, like, weird anxiety about what she's going to do is much less present when it's Taylor putting on a show.

But I don't, that's, I don't, right now that that show is not as enticing to me. It's not to me either. But I do wonder if some creative director gets a hold of her mind and they, they spend it together if that's what they try to do. It's just, these are very difficult choices. I'm very interested to hear what the audience thinks of this and how they would structure it. And you have to be reasonable because, again, there's no what, she's playing somewhere between 20 and 22 songs,

a song, you can do a bunch of mashups if that's what you want to do, but then you're getting it more into the sort of Broadway show concept that we just talked about. So I'm very interested to see what people think about this. Yeah. So I clocked out at 21 songs. Three of them, though, are substantial medleys. And one of them is all too well, 10 minute versions. So that's four songs that presumably are considerably longer than the average song.

That would make this probably a longer show than 1989 or reputation. It has to be. That's awesome. If she wanted to play for five hours, I would be like, bring it on. Now, she can't because it's just too, it's too physically. taxing and regulations don't permit. I think that just because I want people to do this exercise and share it and do it in whatever way you want, like the creative license is what makes it fun.

But I do think that that is sort of the hopeful but rational length, right? Like if we're sort of predicting, okay, how much, what are the parameters of this thing? I do think that it's around 20, 21, 22 sort of normal. That's what it has to be. Songs. Oh, yeah, yoy. I wish she was doing the flipping multi-show different stuff each night so she could get in deeper to it. You want to go to like whatever the Lincoln Center of Los Angeles is and you want to hear her play folklore.

And I hope I hope you get that experience. I hope I get that experience. But I'm so excited to hear this. And I am excited that a lot of people get to come together over it. And a lot of people will get to just sort of share the experience of being a part of this tour. And I think that's cool. And I think it's cool that she's doing it in a way where she's going to touch a lot of people. And, like, I would not begrudge her a second if she tried to do something that was more residency-focused.

Yeah, there's more to come. something that I just, I'm appreciative of the fact that she's going to drag herself to all these different places. And that's cool. We agree on that. Okay. I will just reiterate that we are very excited for people to maybe come up with their own dream set list and share it with us. And we will post this episode, which obviously has ours. Maybe we can post ours separately or something. But we'll share this out if you've listened all the way through to the end of this podcast. I think you're probably dedicated enough that you might want to think about what you want to hear when we all get to the ERIS tour next summer, which we're all very excited about.

This has been every single album, Taylor Swift. As always, I'm Nora Pinciotti. He is Nathan Hubbard. We will talk to you soon. Thank you, as always, to Kaya McMullen for production on this episode and to you for listening.