Every Single Album - The Eras Tour Kickoff | Every Single Album: Taylor Swift

Episode Date: March 21, 2023

The Eras Tour is finally here. Nora and Nathan break down the first two nights of Taylor Swift’s sold-out shows in Glendale, Arizona (or should we say Swift City, Era-zona). They talk about which songs they were surprised to see on the set list (1:00), her decision to include only one song from her ‘Speak Now’ album (20:19), and how she’ll maintain a 44-song, three-and-a-half-hour set over the next seven months (34:19). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's no secret the NFL has a problem with race. Think Colin Kaepernick. Think Brian Flores. But this isn't a new problem. It's one that started as far back as the 1930s, with a ban on black players in the NFL, with a past that informs the present. Blackballed is a new miniseries podcast from The Ringer,

about the four men who broke the color barrier in football. I'm your host, Chelsea Stark Jones. BlackBald is dropping soon on the Ringer NFL feed. Hello and welcome to every single album, a very special edition. I'm Nora Pinciotti, and I am here with Nathan Hubbard because the Erez tour is underway. There's 44 songs. It's three hours and 15 minutes long. Taylor's back, break, and records.

Also, it's just like a lot going on in our world. I mean, Harry's still on tour. The Jonas Brothers sold out Broadway. Nile's got a song out. Nathan recently randomly posted a photo of himself and Maddie. Healy on the internet and also texted it to me with very little explanation. There is a lot going on at the moment. So we needed to get back together first and foremost to talk about the Aeros Tour, which had

its first two dates over the weekend. Nathan, you and I have not talked about this yet. At all. Do you know why? You announced on Twitter that we weren't talking to each other over the weekend. You didn't tell me this. Because we weren't talking. Well, yeah, but, you know, I get it in my mentions. You're tweeting it somewhat. Norah and I are not going to speak this weekend. Oh, okay. All right. That's fine.

Nora, I'm five days in to a five day fast. So all bets are off today. I have no ability. I'm so crystal in my thinking and at the same time completely messed in the head that I don't even remember the exchange that you're talking about. It probably was happening as I switched into ketosis. Like a food fast. Yes, a food fast. Are you going to like pass out on this podcast? Should we be worried? Kaya, I want you monitoring his movements. If you see any like wooziness going on in Nathan's, Nathan's little Zoom cube, we got to step up here. Listen, if Taylor Swift can make it through three hours and 15 minutes, 44 songs, wearing 11 million outfits and running what looks like, we got to get one of those little pin chips that they put on.

soccer players where they like take Rinaldo off. They're like, the next gen stats, dots. Yeah. He's run like seven and a half miles. Does she, does she have like an Apple watch? It could just track her steps. Yeah. We need to know because it appears from all, I mean, every vantage point that we have that she's running a lot more.

I mean, JJ Watt, Hall of Fame, future Hall of Fame football player, very close to your heart, Nora, is very concerned about the endurance that he saw. He's like, there's no way I could do that. And he wasn't wearing like six inch heels the whole time. Yeah, well, they say there's 11 minutes of action. My wonderful colleague, Kevin Clark, before he was at the ringer wrote this amazing story for the Wall Street Journal about how there's really only 11 minutes of total action in an NFL game.

Three hours and 15 minutes without a lot of breaks, I think is what JJ was commenting on. Pretty impressive stuff. I don't know that this tour. I mean, first of all, it's just, I guess we should say spoiler alert. I have been scrolling through my TikTok, which is just, exclusively videos from the shows right now. And so I've seen pretty much everything that's available to me. I don't know what you've been doing, Nathan.

I'm curious to hear. But if we have any listeners who've tuned into this podcast somehow thinking that it wouldn't talk about what's actually going on at the show, we love you, but turn this pot off because there's going to be spoilers. What's your approach, Ben? Yeah, it's exactly that. I'm not even eating. What else are I?

I'm consuming content from the... tour. I mean, this is, and there's so much of it that, you know, after two nights now, I think we have a decent sense of the shape and scope of what we're looking at. But man, there's a lot to talk about. So we ought to jump in. Okay. So as you, I'm curious, I guess you just gave the answer to that question of if you think we have the full shape and scope of this tour or if there's any possibility that it morphs in certain ways. We can get to that. But as you said, let's just dive in. Is there one thing that caught you or surprised you more than anything else once we got to take a look at this? One thing.

I mean, let's just start. Curl Summer leading off, she knew what we wanted, just zero fucking around. I know why you came here. I'm not going to make you wait. It's a lot like, I went to see Mumford at the peak of their powers after the album with I Will Wait on it. And they played that second at the Hollywood Bowl. It was just like, fuck, yeah, here we go. We know why you came.

Bring it on. It just pulled the energy up in the whole venue. And it was just such a gift to the fans. There is a case to be made that she could have closed with it. And we can talk about the order of the eras here. But I love that she just said, right at it, I've heard you. Let's go. So were you surprised.

So Cruel Summer comes second. The opening number of being Miss Americana, I think, might have been. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. my theory is that this was going to be the opening sort of sequence of lover fest, and she really liked it and wanted to just sort of recreate it here. That as the opening song choice, initially, though, really, really surprised me. But then you do get cruel summer coming right after that. So it's like if you, if you're someone who really wanted to see this show and somehow got a ticket

but isn't a die hard, die hard, die hard, if you're not deep into Miss Americana, you're getting a song that you know you love. You can scream everywhere at the top of your lungs within the first seven minutes of the show or whatever it is. But what did you think about how it started? Yeah, it's a little bit of a surprise for sure that she went with this.

I think it's a little bit abbreviated in fairness. True. And so she doesn't even go through the whole thing. There is that spectrum of songs that are going on in the background, including so it goes, which is not particularly different from this one in some ways that happens beforehand.

So this feels like she just sort of picks up the snippets that are happening in the background and jumps in. We need something to get it started. I feel like if she came on with Cruel Summer, the room would melt. So this was one of those surprises. I mean, listen, thank God she didn't open with me. Thank God me is nowhere on this set list. I mean, this is...

The more that I think about this, And her communication through the show is going to be very interesting because we'll see if the hardest part in the Achilles heels of the Achilles heel of this show is that it's 44 songs over 50 plus dates. Like how is she going to keep the dialogue fresh? Right? Two nights in a row talking about the Evermore stuff, it felt like she was... But she did it differently.

She did kind of revamp it. Yeah, but can she do it 50 times differently? Probably not, right? So it's going to be interesting. But what we know is she's paying attention. the more you step back from this show and look at all this shirt, a lot going on at a moment, at the moment, right? Oh, we're going to talk about that.

Oh, I know we are. I know we are. The structure of the set list, the way she talked about everyone, she's listening, this is very much a response to everything she's heard since 2018. And I just, I loved, there are Easter eggs within Easter eggs inside this show.

Well, if she's been paying attention to absolutely, Absolutely everything. And if she's been paying attention to not this podcast, but the types of things that we occasionally say on this podcast, and I think are echoed in a lot of corners of the fandom, a big question, a big thing that she would have heard is how do the songs from folklore and Evermore translate to a massive stadium environment? Turns out she thinks they translate just fine. That was another big surprise to me is just how much we're getting from folklore and Evermore. Folklore, the first night, eight songs, that's including the surprise songs. Evermore, five. Folklore had the most more than Midnights was next than Lover in 1989, Evermore.

She's doing a lot from Woodsy Cottage Corps pandemic days. What did you think about translating those songs, translating seven had the spoken word, but then like invisible string. I think Betty, last great American dynasty, August, that's a little bit more of the stuff that we thought could work. But, you know, illicit affairs, my tears ricochet. What did you think about updating those songs for this tour? Yeah, it's interesting to hear these songs in a stadium

because it's exactly the opposite of how we all originally experienced those albums. 70,000 people in outside open air together versus sort of quite literally locked in your home with a small group of people. Yeah. The New York Times review of this very subtly suggested that these songs from Folklore and Evermore in person had a little bit more difficult time carrying the energy around the stadium. But the review was very hushed about that because literally no one dares criticize Taylor at this point. She's like President Xi of China with the media around this thing, and I love it. Like, no one dares say anything or they're going to die. But it felt like, look, she had a lot to do to take those songs and put them to a stadium.

And I still feel, look, when we talk about how they structured this and the format, I still have a part of me that longs to hear these songs in a concert hall. Now, the logistics of whether or not that was possible to do a stadium show and then moved to... I think at the end of the day, the reality is there was just too much damn demand and that there may be things

that she could do from here. Could she have played stadiums, concert halls, arenas, clubs, all sort of in a same city? It would have been super cool to see folklore and Evermore in the Disney concert hall. But I just think demand was too prohibitive to make it an equitable experience. There's a lot that she's going to be able to do

on the back of this tour to go to smaller places, but that has to happen after she gives everyone a chance to go. So, do I love these songs in the huge stadium? I think the outfits are great. I think the cottage core stuff is great. I think my guess is if we're all super honest,

that the energy, it's just hard to project everything that is these songs into a giant arena, especially because it is the, just the vulnerability and softness of her voice, that she introduced in these albums that makes them so unbelievably special. And even on the live TikTok streams,

some of the color and character and just structure of her voice that was so, wow, whoever, you know, Bob Levsetsets criticized the voice historically, maybe that was right, maybe that was wrong historically, but it ain't right now. And on some of the streams, I felt like the nuance of her vocal,

which is what I love about the folklore and ever more album, feels like it's lost, but let's see what it looks like in person. And even still, man, I love, love those records. I love the song choices she put from those albums. The only thing that I really, really missed was Gold Rush.

And I definitely missed this as me trying, but she played it in the second night. Talk to me. What do you miss from those two albums that she didn't put out here? So I have, I guess, a slightly different view. And this is just, I'm reserving a lot of judgment

until I see it live and have that experience for myself, which I have to wait several months for, or two months for, I guess. But from just watching the little videos, I thought a lot of it worked way better than I expected. I mean, just some of the stuff that it looked like she was doing with, like, tolerate it with all of the drama and the set pieces and like climbing on the table. And then there's the part where she's like kneeling in the big dress.

I think that was my tears ricochet and the folklore set. You love the dress, don't you? Well, so I love the folklore dresses. I love the outfits for this tour. I think she looks amazing. Okay, we're going to talk about this. If I had to pick a miss. The Evermore.

The Evermore dress is a little October fest for me. Like, it's a little bit like Love Shack Fancy meets October Fest. Both nights, though? Because she's got multiple. The orange one. Yeah, that was the first night. the orange one didn't pop back up for the for um the second evermore i thought it was the folklore the folklore the folklore was the purple one the first night that changed to the green for the second night

and then there was the maroon version oh i thought that i thought it went to white but i'm not really keeping close track of these things people are digging these outfits i mean i you're right the white outfit did come out the second night i like the white one okay it's just the orange one where the trees pop up from the stage and then we're just like a little, we're in Hobbiton. Yeah, yeah, there's a little Hansel and Gretel to it all. But we'll come back on the outfits because this is really not my area of expertise. So I need a little more insight for me on this. But generally speaking, she's working hard out there to sell them. She's on her knees in some part, like you said, she's got the backup dancers sort of walking in time. But that feels like the

part of the show that needed the most work and selling within the stadium. I'm happy to hear the songs. I just would posit that there's a even better environment to hear them. And I can't wait until she's playing like the Kennedy Center with a string section, even though the band is playing them as well as they can be played in the stadium. I'm pumped that she's going for it because it's fun to be surprised, right? And then you get the super witchy version of Willow, which is so funny to me. And it's so like, she's in her coven with the dancers. And it's as an Evermore stand, it's very cool to hear a full-throated defense of that album and to see it get its time.

And I think that's all awesome. It is just like, she's working hard this entire set. She's working hard for three hours and 15 minutes. But it does seem like there was real dedication to, nope, we're going to make these happen. You know, we're going to keep trying to make fetch happen. it's why they made illicit affairs a little bit more of a rocker, isn't it? Totally. They totally guitars into that.

They just tried to stadium up a few of these songs. And I'm totally okay with that. I'm happy to hear it. I think when you step back, they probably were like, I mean, first of all, 44 songs, we're going to go there and talk about the length of this show and the choice.

But reputation is the last tour that she played. And so she had to ultimately make some cuts. So it's not a surprise that she did five from Evermore, six from lover, seven slash eight from folklore, seven from Midnights, right? She was going to have to go heavy on those because we did see her tour the other songs earlier. We can talk about whether she picked the right ones from those alternate albums. It does feel like some songs made it into the set list that might not otherwise have made

it in if she hadn't turned down the energy by design with folklore and evermore. right? Like, does you need to calm down have to be in there? Well, I mean, think, again, let me just say it again. Thank God she didn't put me in. But you need to calm down as in there. Yeah, exactly. You know, there are a few others that it feels like she could have potentially dropped off. But, you know, you need, are you ready for it, or ready for it, to offset some of the energy that mellows out a bit over the course of three hours and 15 minutes. So I understand. So you think that because we're devoted, give or take five songs to Evermore, seven, eight songs to folklore, you think that that has something to do with why we're getting the man and you need to calm down

as opposed to death by a thousand cuts in Cornelia Street in the lover section. I'll go even further. I think it's why you didn't get new romantics. Because I think when she ultimately builds out of red, and then brings it back down to folklore, she's got to build back up.

And coming out in 1989, she's got to go for the pure dance ones. I just think, would I have loved to have heard clean? Yes, I would have loved to have heard clean. Would I, you know, do I really wish that she'd thrown in Better Man? She'll do it in the acoustic surprise section at some point. But there's a reason why she just stayed with some of those bangers because over three hours and 15 minutes,

it's really a two-act play, right? It culminates. Act one, I feel like it ends with 10-minute all too well. And that's, at that point, she's gone through lover. She's played fearless. She's played Evermore. She's played rep. She's inexplicably played only one song from Speak Now,

which is the Enchanted song, which you seem to love so much. I just can't get over the fact that it's the Al City guy. Why does the Al City guy continue to be able to ride the coattails into history? She is the master. She really falls in love with songs. Like one hit wonders, she's not afraid of.

She had Walk the Moon as an opener on her tour. Like, she really is okay with somebody who makes one song and never reappears. Look, the ability to go to an 11 over a mediocre man is a time-honored tradition. And this is just Taylor Swift's foray into that space onto that hallowed ground. Yeah. And it's an amazing song. look, it is. We have a lot to talk about on the speak now front, but I do think that the other choices from the other quote-unquote eras are somewhat to make space for the energy that comes from Evermore and folklore. So I think she did the absolute best that she could under these scenarios. And I do think it would have been very difficult to get Taylor Swift in this moment and time into a smaller venue and not have people cry foul, especially after everything that happened with the on sale and the like, like, the, like, the, the, this ended up being the best way to satisfy demand.

It's not the perfect forum for these two albums, but I don't think it matters. She's selling it the best she possibly can, and I think the visual spectacle of the show makes it work. Yeah, I don't know. Again, I'm reserving judgment until I see it, but I really felt like from what I could see on TikTok, I was really, really impressed by just what those songs sounded like

and sort of how theatrical she was able to make them in that large of a space. Let's talk about Speak Now, though. Yes. One song. Something's a foot. Something is a foot. I'm highly a foot.

I'm crying bullshit. It is complete bullshit. And all we know, look, we saw it in the bejewled video. We've seen it in the store. We know Speak Now is hanging out there. It is very, very strange. that neither Speak Now nor 1989 were put out in advance of this tour. I think I have a little bit of insight into why that is.

The songs that she dropped on the eve of the tour feel like a little bit of cleanup for the songs that were hanging out there that weren't on formal albums, but that you might have attributed to the Speak Now era if you squinted a bit, and that she's sort of clearing the decks for Speak Now, both sonically in her recordings,

but also through the tour. I just, why else is there only one song from Speak Now in this entire tour? I have no good explanation for it. I'm shocked by it, frankly. Yeah. Because my explanation for why

Speak Now Taylor's version is not out has to do with the tour is all that matters. The tour is, it's going to be the biggest tour that's ever toured. It's the most amazing thing. I mean, three hours and 15 minutes. She is giving blood, I'm sure, at some point, but certainly sweat.

And we saw tears to this thing. And people spent a ton of money on it, but they are getting a lot from her in return. And the only thing that I could think that made sense was just, you know what? We're not, it would be great to put Speak Now, Taylor's version out, and have that and have the songs. and when she, you know, resets her own record for the biggest streaming day on Spotify as she did the day after the tour started, when that happens to be able to redirect that attention to the re-recorded songs, great, sure, that would be wonderful. But that's not what we're doing right now. We're doing the tour. That said, if that's the priority and it's the era's tour, then what would follow for me is, look, it is what it is.

and every era is available to us, and we're going to work with all the clay that we have to mold. And just doing Enchanted doesn't fit into that for me. I'm not necessarily mad about it, even though Speak Now is a contender for my favorite album. So I guess I am because I love to hear more of that song, more of those songs. I mean, we've heard them live.

Like, it's not as, there's the songs I wish that we heard that she's performed live all right. ready and the songs that I wish that we heard that like have not had their live moments yet and I do separate those. But I just, I can't put those two things together. They don't make sense to me. Okay. So you're right. They don't make sense. But I'm going to make the case for optimism. Okay. And here's here's the case. The first is she spent the first two nights telling us, I really love Evermore. Evermore was not, you know, a reject. My least favorite child. It's not my least favorite child. And so that clearly, in its own way, that narrative wounded her a bit.

Or it bothered her or it annoyed her. Pick your, you know, whatever verb happened to her. It happened to her. Or she just thinks we're all insane and wants to make fun of us for it. Here's the thing. She's right in that, or the fans are right, in that it did not get the attention that it deserved in the flurry of content that she released. because she put out folklore and then she put out the long pond and then she put out Evermore and then only a few months later, boom, it was fearless. And so there was this entire spread of content that we know put Evermore, which you and I can make a strong argument is as good of an album or better than folklore.

Or better than folklore. That it got washed away a little bit. And I think she knows that. And the strategy that we saw post fearless and how she set up. read the way that she went out on the VMAs to announce midnight. She decided, I think, that she was not going to let her art get washed away. I am also privy to a little bit of inside buzz. The little birdie thing, they were worried about pulling this off. Okay, this is a monumental effort. We have not simply seen a tour of this length ever. And we can go back to talk through

you know, all of those artists who have come before. Springsteen in 1985 played 29 songs. Huge touring year. 99, he averaged 24. 2012, he played 27. So yeah, Springsteen plays a long time, but a lot of that is instrumental and the band. And he's not playing 44 songs. He's certainly in running around. He's in 24. Her 23rd song is the all too well 10 minute version that you defined as the end of act one. There we go. There we go. And Springsteen not wearing heels. And, not running around an entire stadium down the catwalking up and down. That would be something, though. It would.

I'd love to see it. Maybe 2009, Beyonce played 28 songs. 2013, she did 23 songs. 2016, she averaged 31. The Coachella set was 32. Okay, so that's, we're still, we're still 75% of that show. Coldplay plays like 21, 23 songs. Prince, in 2011, he played 29 songs on average.

In 2004, he averaged 32 songs. Dylan, who has this monumental catalog. In 1978, he played 28 songs. It was all downhill from there. By 95, he was playing 15 songs or less in his set. So my point is, this is a massive effort that is not, it doesn't have historical president, not just because of the number of songs, but because of the production. And this is a visual spectacle.

We should talk about that visual spectacle and whether it lands in the way that she intends. But this is the most complicated tour likely that we have seen in a long time, if not ever. I think you could argue maybe some of the Pink Floyd stuff, but this is a visual spectacle. They were worried about it happening. It took all of the energy possible to get it out. And I don't think they could focus on anything else. So the reason for optimism is we know these things are coming. It is weird intuitively. If your desire in publishing these albums, re-recording them, is to cut the legs out of people who are making money off your art, who own the old versions. It still makes no sense to me why you wouldn't just get it the F out. And the only reason why I think we haven't

seen it is they figured out that when they put out fearless, it did okay, but it did not kill old fearless. When they put out Red with a full album campaign and a lot of space to breathe, it killed old Red. And so I think she's hoping to have the space in time to release these things. And I think the reason we're not hearing speak now is something absolutely has to be building towards a release of that in the not too distant future. Well, okay. So can I go a conspiracy corner on you and can we talk about what not too distant future?

I love conspiracy, Nora. So you saw the, a lot going on at the moment. Mm-hmm. T-shirt, right? Mm-hmm. That was the first night. It was born during the 22 red era shirt, the update of the not a lot going on at the moment.

shirt, but it said a lot. So the rest of the letters were in black, but a lot. A, L-O-T is in red on the shirt. The next night, the shirt says, who's Taylor Swift anyway? Ew. Who's Taylor-Swift anyway is in black, but the ew is in red letters. Yeah. So in red letters, we have A-L-O-T and we have E-W.

Put those in a bag, jumble them up. So far, they do work. as part of spelling out speak now Taylor's version. Oh, come on. It's all I'm saying. That's the craziest shit you've ever said to me. It's all I'm saying. I can't take credit for noticing that.

It also spells Nora Princeati. No, it doesn't. It actually, in fact, is not. I don't have a W in my name. Yet. All right. Well, you think that through the course... It doesn't.

You think that through the course of this tour, she's going to wear t-shirts that in red, when you jumble up the letters, not unlike the vault stuff that she put us through for the old red, that it's go, or for the new red, Taylor's version, that it's going to spell Speak Now Taylor's version. Okay, when you say it like that, I sound bananas, but maybe. I just can't believe that Speak Now is not part of this tour in a significant way. It's going to be in some capacity. And again, when I say, I think this is the great democratization of her touring with the fan base. She now, she had so much demand that she had to get this out there and just get people in so that nobody could say, I didn't have a chance. And let's be

clear, you do have a chance. There were tickets available in all sections, yes, in the secondary market, on the day of the show. On the day of the show, in the hours leading up to it, there are a few hundred to a few thousand tickets posted. Pretty clear brokers are afraid of getting caught and having their tickets canceled, so they're holding stuff back and waiting until the last 48 hours to put stuff up there. Overall volume sort of looks low, but I suspect it's a little bit higher than we see because I think brokers are hiding the ball because of all the drama around it. They didn't want to get their tickets canceled, all this stuff. It's a weird market right now. What I'd say to you is, if you want to go to this tour, you can. And if you start looking 48 hours beforehand,

you're going to find a ticket that gets you in. That's not $1,000. That's for sure. It seemed like I can't really I don't want to put too much weight behind this because I've just seen a couple of things on TikTok it did seem like prices were dropping a little bit to more than a little bit. It's not going to be cheap, but it seemed like you could get it.

This happens in most events and five to 10% of the time the price goes up because there's suddenly a bunch of people who want to go and supply is actually really tight and that means when you draw the supply and demand curve, price goes up. In this case, demand is absolutely there, but there is also a lot of supply. And I think, again, I think it looks to me like brokers are not posting all the tickets that they have

because they're afraid of getting busted. And so they're posting them in small increments. When their tickets in one section sell, they refresh it and reload it. So I think people are sitting on inventory. And this looks to me so far like a tour that if you wait, until those last 48 hours, you're going to get something that is reasonable. They are definitely right now fishing for suckers if you live in Philadelphia or New York or Los Angeles or, you know, any of those dates that are more than a month out. But I think Vegas is coming on Friday and Saturday. I took a peek

today. There's a few tickets that are posted there and in a couple hundred bucks gets you into the into the seats. I just, unless something about the set list changed it dramatically, and I don't think it did, if anything, it's going to lower demand, because there's going to be a few people who go, three hours and 15 minutes isn't for me. Ha-ha, more for the rest of us. But unless you're that person, I do think that the last 48 hours right now is going to be a place to do it. But if you don't live in Vegas, go on those secondary sites if you're looking for a ticket and just track, watch the behavior of what happens across different sections.

Watch how many tickets are available. It'll give you a really good indication of what's going to happen when the tour comes to your town. I hate that you have to buy in the secondary market, but let's be clear, like, there just was more demand than supply, and that's just where we are. So I just think, Nora, at some point, we're going to hear a lot more from speak now before we get to these five shows in L.A. in August. I would be excited about that. Let's talk a little bit more about, you've just brought up that the shows in Philly and New York in L.A. are a ways of away from now. I'm going in New York or New Jersey, technically, at the end of May. Three hours and 15 minutes, a couple or a few times a weekend for the next, however many months.

How is she going to keep this up so that when you and I see this tour, it's fire on all cylinders? I mean, first of all, I feel badly for the openers. Like, is anybody going to go see the openers? The openers are awesome. I'm thrilled. Yeah. I actually thought it's a good point because now that if people know how long of a show they're in for, it's, it's, you're signing up for a lot of hours inside of a stadium. That said, I did think, I remember going to the reputation tour and it was awesome to see Charlie X, X, X, X, X, and Camilleo, I went to both openers. It was, they were great. I remembered thinking, man, the. difference between Taylor's production value and like the one just the effort into Havana for

Kamala Cabo of just making the video screens work. And it also was a little bit later. So it was getting a little bit dusky. So it starts to get dark and it makes the screens pop and everything was so, so, so stark where like the beginning of Charlie, it was just you couldn't see anything. It was totally light out. There was not a lot of stuff going into it. Right. Gail, Paramore, deserve, and probably Taylor's people, and anybody who was involved in sort of how that happened, deserve a lot of credit because I agree with you. I didn't see a peep about either opener for, like, close to 48 hours after this thing started just because the stuff about what Taylor did was so intense and so just overwhelming all of my feeds and everything. But when I watched the Paramar show, it was good.

They sounded great and it looked great. and it seemed like they put a lot into it and the screens were going and I hope people don't do that because it looked awesome. Yeah, I do too. I mean, this is kind of lover fest except she is all the bands

with the few openers. You know, it's like, I think this is what we were going to get. It's just lots of her. And that's fine by me. I think, let's be clear, miss me with the, hey, they didn't say this about Paul,

about Bruce Springsteen, about Prince. This is about, you know, they're challenging her physical stamina. as a woman. No. J.J. Watt. Hall of fame professional athlete was like, I have no idea how she did that without a halftime, without a break. Like, can she actually go do this? Adel's voice has barely been able to pull off an entire tour. And so I think it's a reasonable thing to be worried about. Can she physically

do this? Now, the good news here is there's less dancing in choreography per note. I think there are some abbreviated songs for sure and there are also a lot of background tracks where her voice is being used on all 10 minute all too well like she can duck in and out of choruses she does that on blank space at least in the first couple nights

and they still hold up fine she only plays guitar when she wants to like she stops during the casually cruel in the name of being honest part on all too well 10 minute version it's fine the band that strong, they're carrying her. So I think they've created a scenario in which she can sort of dive in and out of these songs. Obviously, she's got to sing the verses. She can't, she can't

bail out a Marjorie. But she's got to, she has some bailout areas through the course of this. But they are worried about her getting through this, not because she's not strong, but because nobody wearing heels singing hard for three hours and 15 minutes. It just has not been done before. No one's ever done this before. The Springsteen show, he's playing a lot of guitar. You know, there's big long, long band jams. It happens only in transition at this show. She is the show and she's singing her ass off.

It's hard to do. Nora, is she actually going to write and direct a feature film through all this shit? Oh, my God. I can't even. She's got to be on vocal rest, right? It's like not a normal person. It's like so ridiculous. But that's true.

And that's probably why this is going to be fine. But I do believe that if she gets through this entire tour with all of the energy that she's bringing, she's probably making an album in the background, everything else that's happening, it's going to be an incredible physical feat. And I agree. She's hugely superhuman.

But I think what is going to be the biggest accomplishment of this tour is if she can actually pull off a 44-song stadium tour over three hours and 15 minutes that she does night after night after night, around the country, and that's before she even goes to the rest of the world. This is not an easy thing to do, and I think that is a credit to her. She's taking a risk. That's the danger in this show. The rest of the show doesn't necessarily have danger except for the two sort of

what are going to be the acoustic songs. I mean, we got to talk about what she dives into when she goes swimming. Well, yeah, I was going to say also when she dives into the ball pit or whatever it is under there. I wanted to be a ball pit. I wanted it to be like a sparkly ball pit. I wanted to be a ball pit. I want it to be a... Taylor, if you, if you will answer any one question

that we have, it's, is it a ball pit? Just what's down there before you get slingshot it across the stadium. It can't be a gymnastics, Matt, because she'd get marks on her,

on her, like, arms and legs, right? Is it like a love sack? Is it fuzzy? Is it a giant beam? Is it a pool of her enemy's blood? Is it Joe down there catching her?

What's happening? Oh, my God. Cute. Cute. Can you imagine if it were Joe? I love that idea. Yes. I don't know because here's not like he's acting.

She's like really putting her body on the line with that. It's not like she cannonballs in there. She goes head first. And you know what it looks like under makeshift stages. There's like there's wiring and there are sort of pipes and it's not like warm and fuzzy down there. No. No.

And I had a friend who was like, she dives kind of weird. I was like, she's jumping into nothing. Like, what do you want? You want her to go up and do like a swan- She's like slinging herself. Into something.

I don't know. We may have a neck pinch. She might be out with a knee. There's going to, she's going to have like a hockey injury report. The vocal stuff is, the vocal stuff is massively impressive. And clearly they have a plan for it.

And there is rest between the shows. But if she pulls this off, it'll be massively impressive. That's what I'm worried about. I'm worried about a, you know, a separated shoulder or something like that because the ball pit wasn't stocked well enough. Right.

Somebody gets a little loose. The roadies are on the, they're having a two gummy night under the stadium and they forget to put enough balls in the ball pit. Or like, she's climbing up that ladder to the clouds before midnight and ladders are not safe. I don't know. What if the Willow house collapses?

The vigilante shit chair. I mean... There's slippage potential. She's wearing the 90-inch lubitons in that moment. Look, JJ Watt is still in his 30s. So this guy knows he watched the show. He's like, that is a... There's a lot of hazard happening right here.

I mean, JJ Watt also knows a thing or two about getting injured at State Farm Stadium or whatever. Yes. He knows well what it's like to get injured All too well. All too well, Nora. But listen, that is going to be the fun of tracking this tour. And I do want to bring you back to that question because we learned something from the

1975 tour. It was one of two extremely innovative tours that have happened over the course of the last year. The first was Harry Stiles, and you and I have spoken ad nauseum about the shift from just going town to town to town to actually putting up residences in large venues. maybe Taylor's doing a residency in LA with five stadium shows fine. I think she sort of landed somewhere in between. But it was this notion that you can save a lot of cost on touring by having people come to you. That was kind of the first interesting innovation in touring. The second, I think was the 1975 tour, because that tour and Maddie Healy went out every night

performing for the internet more so than the crowd in front of them. And they had a two-act play and every night the question was, is Maddie going to eat the raw meat? Is Maddie gonna touch his own dong? Who's Maddie gonna kiss? And there was this energy around you gotta see it. And it just generated clip after clip after clip. So what I ask you is,

in this format, it has to be highly choreographed, it has to be structured because you can't do a 44 song set like this without it. Outside of the two surprise songs a night, is there enough of that, is that enough, the two songs a night?

And if not, you know, is there stuff elsewhere in the show that is going to keep this buzz every night where you're checking back to see what happened? Okay, I'm not over Dong. I don't know that anyone's ever said that on this podcast before. I didn't know what to say. I have a response. I know I'm going to respond to your point.

I just need a second. All right. What should I have said? Princeati. It's fine. God, let's go. She's not doing his JJ Watt. What?

Just leave JJ out of this. He's been through enough. All right. Taylor is not doing what those people are doing. She's just not. You are very inspired by all of what's going on because it's you. And it is fascinating to see. She is not doing what they are doing.

She's a unique presence. She's a different performer. She's not like Harry is breaking the fourth wall at all times. which plays really well for the internet because it's different every night and it's bespoke. And it's, I'm talking about this sign that I see in the fourth row and you broke up with your boyfriend. Oh, you know, could have been your fault. Ha, ha, ha, banana. They're all dressed as bananas.

They're dressed as bananas. And everybody goes wild and posted on TikTok and it can be different on an evolving basis throughout. the tour. And there's other stuff. I mean, like the Jonas Brothers just sold out Broadway for like five nights in a row or something. That was very cool. Taylor is doing, I guess the biggest similarity would be just sort of how theatrical and how innovative as an experience and a show the 1975 tour was. I definitely see a parallel there. But she's not breaking the fourth wall in the same way. she is putting on a show and that show

required so much effort like she's just in the best way possible she is a try hard and I mean that is such a compliment but she's not doing the same thing that I think a lot of people do where it's sort of like

oh how cheeky we're just hanging out no she's showing up to perform and she's going to perform for three hours and 15 minutes sweat her ass off maybe get a shoulder contusion when she dives beneath the stage and she's just put together this spectacle,

and I think that's going to stand on its own. That's what I think. How does that parlay into her inter-song banter? I think a lot of people still have a little bit of PTSD from the little bit of the, wow, this is my shock surprise face stuff from the early days. My vibe from the first two nights was, this is a woman who's super comfortable with herself.

her dialogue felt a lot more authentic and less of the C word that she gets criticized for contrived, which sometimes I see sometimes I don't. But I just ask you, do you think we're going to get a lot of that playful inter-song banter or do you think that the banter

at the end of the day is part of the show? And while she might reword the, I've been watching you talk shit about Evermore, she's going to say it every night before she starts there. I think most of it will be consistent. Now, I think she's going to, I don't think she's going to go on the whole.

I see it. I'm watching you. I see everything on TikTok over and over and over again for 52 or 53 nights or whatever it is because, yes, I think people will, at least the super fans, although it's worth keeping in mind that there are a lot of people who are going to see this tour who are not watching every last little thing. This tour may not be for them, but yes. Yeah, but it has to be for a lot of people. Yes.

She can just alter that stuff subtly, but if the, if the. question is, do I think that she's going to throw out the, you know, and I'm your host this evening. My name's Taylor. I think she's going to do that 53 times. I do. Like, I think that's a part of the show. Because it's for everyone. Yeah. Show. And it's a part of the routine. And it's almost like choreography. And I do think to an extent naturally, she gets to do something different every night because of the surprise songs. And she'll get to talk a little bit during those. and talk a little bit about those songs, and that's going to be bespoke,

and that's going to be different. And I do think that's going to be enough because for the most part, I think she's not showing up to play around. And it's too hard. Like, what she's trying to do every night is too hard. It has to hit its beats. And I think that's what they're doing more so than banter,

banter, this will be cute on TikTok. Yeah. She's got to keep the thing moving. We don't have time for a lot of inner song shit. Because this is 44 songs for crying all right. And actually, I think more than in past tours, it seemed like she would go straight from one song into another, which adds to the vocal challenge of what she's doing.

But it does, there's always a lot of talking in a Taylor Swift show. There's maybe a little bit less in this one over the course of the whole thing. Yeah, I think that's right. We'll see how it goes through the course of the tour. How do we feel about the production, generally speaking? I mean, it looks awesome. You get the perspective. of everybody from the floor to the upper parts of the 400 level in the stadium through

TikTok and Instagram and everything else. And it does look like a little bit of a different experience depending on where you are in the venue. They've put up screens to try to give the obstructed view, people of view, and the people high up. But the floor versus stands feels like a different experience for sure. And there are some cute moments that if you're on the floor, you're going to catch that if you're in the stands and not watching the screen, you won't, right? I noticed that in last great American Dinos. There's a woman, one of her backup dancers is playing the part of Rebecca. And when she says that, you know, and then it was bought by me, they sort of make this eye contact and there's a handoff.

And it's a very interesting moment that, again, with the Evermore folklore stuff, I think you have to pick up that nuance to get the show part of it. But how do you feel about the production overall? I think it looks amazing. And look, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that sitting in, you know, the last row of the 400 section is, is. the same experience as having floor seats. No. But I think to the best of anyone's ability, it looks like an experience no matter where you are.

And there are certain things when you see some of the videos that are from higher perspectives or more zoomed out, you do get a sense of, oh, all the bracelets light up and make the rainbow or they make the hearts that go around the stadium. and you get a sense of scale that to me is really, really cool to watch. And I imagine it's very cool to watch in some ways when you're in the building.

Now, again, I'm not going to compare that to you're sitting in the front row and you see her wink at you. Like, I'd faint. I'd cease to exist. It's all over. But... For the people in the 400-level section,

it's almost like they're watching a TV show, but it's live. Yeah, but it looks more. It looks like, it still looks like you get something out of being there. Something really, really real. And beyond just sort of sensing the energy. It looks like there's been real thought into, yes, you're going to see that, but you can also just sort of the audience and the venue becomes part of what you're watching.

So I think the production value looks really, really high. Yeah. There's one thing about the production value and the problem. with up-close cameras and maybe the problem with everything getting published to the internet, which is, did you see the like finger in the light socket hair? Like her hair,

the static situation with her hair, we got to figure out how to keep that shit from turning into a full-on tailor-fro. It is problematic, let's say, in the first two shows. I don't know if it was the desert air or whatever, but there were some major components of her hair that were just not

going to participate. They were not going along with the program. They were going to elevate as high as they could. And it was hilarious. It is very dry there. And that affects, when I was there for the Super Bowl, I left, I left my hotel room looking like Priscilla Presley a couple times back. Because it's just like, woof. And as always, there's something wonderfully human about that. Like, Taylor's always the, you know, the jealous of the cheerleader girl playing who's made it and in this great role, but she still has the sort of sensibility of like, maybe I don't totally belong here, wink, wink. And the hair thing while wearing all these Versacee outfits that I want to bring you back to was just fantastic in its own way. So part of me hopes that they figure out something to

glue that shit down, but part of me hopes, just fucking let it go because it just, it humanizes this person. Yeah. I hope they don't. Yeah, because and also like she looked great. Oh, that's not the debate. There was not a visual issue. It does get captured in some memes and in some tweets and some TikToks and stuff like that, but she looked awesome. Like, don't change anything. No. And the thing is, I don't understand how they're pulling off the costume changes. I mean, there was a moment where you could see one outfit under the other. It's like people are digging these outfits, but it does feel like she's got to wear like a moo-moo over a more fitted dress.

And sometimes the fitted dress like peaks in the bottom. Like one time I went, I went to like sit on Santa's lap when I was a kid. kid and the guy had like a bud he i saw he had like a little bit of a bud wiser shirt that peaked out under the costume and i was like you first of all fuck yeah dude but second of all like you are not the real santa right right so it was kind of there's kind of that energy to it that was that was when you figured it satan's real nora and so so is stevie nix and i love how the folklore dresses sort of harken back to that but the outfits here's the question i have for you on the They clearly have struck a chord. People love them. Did she pay for them? Oh. They're all custom.

Fascinating. Probably not, I would imagine. Just because it's massively worth it to those designers to outfit her with all of that stuff. Yeah. If she needed to pay for them, she could. I mean, I saw the estimates for the decked out boots that were like $20,000 or something like that. But, Yeah. They can put it in the tour budget if they need to. But if I'm Christian Lubiton, who she has a very long relationship with touring shoes in particular, I would imagine. Yeah. The honor of outfitting Ms. Swift.

I think that's right. I don't think it's a surprise that the dresses are all getting their own Instagram accounts. And like you can see that. Yeah. And Oscar DeLorenta's posting about how they do the beating on the. body suits and all of that stuff. And I mean, she's using a lot of, so she's doing a lot of Oscar DeLorenta.

As you mentioned, a fair bit of Versace. I think they did the man glittery blazer that goes over the lover body suit and some other stuff. She's mostly using, she's using a lot of designers she has relationships with. So, I'm sure they worked it out. Let me say as a member of the board of Gibson

guitar. We're thrilled. I'm thrilled to see all of the Gibson guitars that she's playing, including the one that her parents apparently bedazzled for the fearless thing, which is awesome. Okay, here's my last question for you on outfits. And then we actually have to get to this set list. Nora, is the reputation outfit drunk? Or are you all in on it? I'm so into it. I love it. It's like the snake is coming down the one leg. Yeah. I just want to make sure that that's, are you, you're ready to ride or die? for that one too. Yeah, totally.

Truly, I think... It's just the Evermore first night. My favorite... My favorite is at the end when she closes with karma and she's got the sparkly body suit plus the fringe coat that changes colors.

And then all the backup dancers have their other fringe coats. I think that's so fun. My favorite shoes are the healed over the knee boots with all the glitter that seem to exist in multiple. iterations.

Truly, the only one where I'm like, what are we doing? Is the orange one. Just the orange sort of like... And then when all the trees come out... Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Again.

She's such a theater kid. Again, yes. Super theater nerd. It's wonderful. We have got to talk about the notable emissions from this set list because there were some choices made. And for me...

Choices were made. Yeah, choices were made. and I think the choices are going to be covered up by these, you know, two surprise at night, two a night surprise acoustic songs. But the first revelation, and there are others, but the first revelation is that debut does not appear to be an era. Do you have a problem with that? Yes.

What do you miss? I miss our song. My manifestation starts now for, May 27th, Taylor, our song. I hope my friends that I'm going with aren't upset about this, but that's what I want. I mean, I'm crushed

that she played This Is Me Trying on Night 2. I know. I think you're crushed that she played State of Grace. I mean, that actually worked on piano. That was beautiful. Yeah, that was amazing. Mirrorball, whatever.

Tim McGraw, I wanted her to go to that, like, minor chord that Maggie Rogers did in the cover. I was hoping we were going to get that. You love that. I do love that. She didn't get it. But so what else? So debut is the first thing. And I assume she'll cycle through a few of those songs. But she has basically determined that that's not an era. And that was surprising, I think to most people, not because we were like dying to hear that music, but because she definitely stepped back and said, I got, okay, 44 songs max. I can only do so much. It's been five years. I've got all these albums. I have to play lover. I have to play

folklore. I'm going to play Evermore. I got to play 19, uh, Midnights. And I got to play the hits from 1989 and rep. So if there's going to be somebody who loses out, it's going to be you debut. What we didn't expect Nora was that it's also speak now that's going to lose out. Yeah, but I didn't expect that debut would literally not be part of this other than in the Tim McGrath surprise song. Were you hoping for the curls and the boots? I just didn't want to accept, has she yeed her last ha? Like, come on, it's an era. It's in the house.

It's a room in the house, but it's not an era on the tour. Yeah, I agree. So what is this about? Is it just that it feels less authentic for her? She's more comfortable being who she is. Is it that she looked back and as she's trying to do the re-recorded? She's like, man, yeah, redoing the twang is, really difficult for me at this point, having lived in New York. I mean, what do you think was behind it?

Yeah, I guess that's probably it. I mean, also, look, I'm speaking from a place of I would love to hear all 200 and whatever songs she's at right now on the tour. So when I say something, I'm not doing the, you know, I always go after people when it's awards ballot season in the NFL where somebody says, oh, it's unbelievable that this person is an all pro. And I always say, if you're going to tell me that so and so should be on a ballot or should be off a ballot or whatever, you have to say who the replacement

or who the retraction is because there's only so many spots. Well, it appears that Evermore in folklore were the replacement. Right. And I could go through and probably do it,

but when I say, I can't believe we're not hearing our song, I've not necessarily gone and said, okay, you know, I don't want to lose Marjorie, right? No. So there's probably a little bit of math to be done there.

But the songs that I'm... I could lose you need to calm down. And the Archer. I'm okay. I love... So I've never stand super hard for the Archer. So that's me.

I know a lot of people feel very differently about that song. I like tearing. You need to calm down. You need to calm down was built to thrive in a tour, big dance party environment. So I've got no issue with that.

Yeah. Shade never made anybody that's gay in the stadium with everybody screaming. It was awesome. Very fun. And that's really what it was about, I think. Because, yeah.

The song that I am most shocked is not a part of this is Cornelia Street. I sort of can't believe it. Really? I'm not saying that that's the one where I'm going, like I'm not making my prayer circle

for Cornelia Street. If I were to make in that family, it would be for Death by a Thousand Cuts. It's Death by Thousand Cuts. Last box, waking me up. Yes. I mean, come on. Okay, but Cornelia Street is a mass,

is a fan favorite. It's just not as much of a bob. It's just not. Neither is death by 1,000 cuts, though. That's why I think they're both not here. Well, sure. But I'm talking about songs that have become, like Cornelius Street, I think is a song that has become

very, very, very special to the fans. She's going to play it on piano, and it's going to be gorgeous. But she's only going to do it one night. But she's only going to do it one night. And I'm surprised by that choice. I'm not saying that I disagree with it. I actually think I probably agree with it. Okay.

You just miss it. No, I'm just surprised that it's not there. If I had my perfect set list, something would be swapped out for death by a thousand cuts. Because of those, like, slightly less boppy lover songs that I agree with you, probably aren't on this because they're not high energy enough to balance out the folklore and the Evermore.

If I could have one of those, for me, it would be death by a thousand cuts. That said, if I were Taylor looking at this, if my goal was to sort of do fan service, Cornelio Street would be there. Death by 1,000 Cuts did have its moment in the live paris show with the guitar, right?

So did Cornelio Street. They both did. They both did. You said it was a great love, one for the ages. So if the story's over, why am I still riding pages? That's how we'll hear them on this tour.

We just have to touch on the fact that basically my favorite song from 1989 and your favorite song from 1989 are not on here. And I really thought the reason I didn't talk to you this weekend is I just was waiting for you to come to me and go, go, this is a nightmare. Like how can there not be new,

44 songs and it doesn't have new romantics? Like that's what I expected for you. Okay, you keep saying this. I'm not that surprised new romantics is not on this. Did I even put New Romantics on my, I'm pulling up my predictive set list. I don't think I did, Nathan. I didn't.

Are you more surprised that Out of the Woods is not on there or New Romantics? I'm probably more surprised that out of the woods is not on there than New Romantics. Again, I am too. I am too. If I had my way, I would love to hear New Romantics, but New Romantics was on the Target Deluxe edition of that album.

And despite that, because the fans, myself included, rightfully understood that it is an impeccable song, helped it get the buzz and Taylor recognized this and gave it a big spot on the 1989 tour. That is more than I think I ever would have predicted new romantics would get.

You sound very satisfied with your favorite Taylor Swift song. I didn't get let down by this because I was not expecting to hear it. The songs that I was expecting to hear and didn't hear, So again, I'm a little surprised getaway car, even though it had the big spot and the reputation tour. I'm surprised that's not there. Nothing beats the, there's only one speak now and there's no debut.

But I thought that we would have had you're on your own kid to. That felt like a big song when Midnights came out. I miss Ivy. I really miss Ivy. I would have loved to hear Ivy. I just love that song. Yeah, Ivy for me. Ivy, certainly Gold Rush, but Ivy is the one that I'm bleeding a bit from. I'm trying to, so here is, when I made my guesses, the ones that I thought would be on it. I think you had long live. No, I didn't. Oh, maybe I did. No, I didn't. I had, so our song, not there.

Sparks fly and mine, not there Jop everything now Holy ground, not there Message in a bottle That was an unhinged choice by me When we did that up in the song What on earth By the way

By the way, when she put out that All the girls you've loved Like I just very briefly Was terrified It was the Julio Glacius Willie Nelson song that she'd recut or something did a cup anyway I'm glad that she didn't

it's kind of growing on me that song all of the girls let's talk we should talk about it before we go but okay message in a bottle strange by me getaway car

I thought she would play and she didn't play I had an I did something bad no body no crime vigilante shit mashup of those only vigilante shit is in this

no mashups how do you feel No mashups. There's not a single mashup. And you based a lot of your prediction on mashups. Well, because my prediction was, what, like 25 songs long or something? Like, she's going to have to do it. You have the right instinct, which was she's going to play 44.

She's just going to mash them up. But I just didn't want to, like, if she's willing to do this to herself, then we are the lucky recipients of that. I don't want to be the person who's saying, hey, Taylor, go out there for three and a half hours and work yourself to the bone. Yeah. No way. Dance, monkey.

Yeah, exactly. I was not willing to do that. Good decision. Is there anything else that, like, really haunts you? Better Man would have been great, but I understand. I understand. You're going to play it one night. Yeah, she'll do Better Man.

Again, I would have loved Would have, Could have should have. I remain feral for that song. What if she plays? that. I will expire. It'll be over. I think, yeah, I'm pretty excited about the idea. I just am not exactly sure how she does that. And the same of that, I'm not sure how she does new Romantics acoustic. But I don't think she's going to do, like, I don't think, I have made my piece with the fact that I don't think even if I could, even if if I meet a genie and get to wish for my absolute dream acoustic set, surprise song set, I don't think I'm hearing

I know places or new romantics on the shore. And that's fine. I've actually... She has a hundred songs to fill if she doesn't repeat. She has a hundred slots. And she said that she only feels like repeating if she screws something up, which is a very Taylor thing to say, but I think I don't

foresee her repeating a lot over the course of the tour. I guess we've alluded to this, but I want to ask you directly. Do you think beyond the surprise songs, the set list stays the set list? I believe the set list stays the set list, yeah. Does that mean that you don't think we're getting Speak Now, Taylor's version until after the tour is over? I think there's something more focused around Speak Now, Taylor's version that's coming. And I, I, I, I, which means that in order to be more focused, it would happen after the tour is over. Yeah. Or maybe there's going to be an added,

you know, she's going to put it out in the middle and do an added speak now night in an arena or, you know, some acoustic speak now. I don't know. It may be that after the tour, she's going to do some stuff this fall tied to speak now. I don't know. But I think it would be a lot if suddenly in Philadelphia or later on in the summer, you know, she's playing speak now stuff that she did in the beginning of the tour. She has a history of trimming some stuff back. But this is so delicately choreographed. every single move, where she ends up on the stage, it is a full, like she is playing a part the entire time except for those two songs. I agree. I just don't know from a lighting, from a rehearsal standpoint, there's just not enough time to make a lot of changes.

And let's be clear, she doesn't need to. It's fucking working. I agree. It doesn't do much for my t-shirt letters, anagram theory, but overall I agree. Another question. Do you think part of the reason that we don't have international dates

for this tour announced yet has to do with testing out just how it feels and how it goes physically in terms of the stamina of going through it? I do. I think there's other things going on in her life that maybe make her not sure

if she's going to go spend two years going to Shanghai. Go be like, Harry's singing the banana song in New Zealand. Yeah. Harry's going to pull every dollar out of the market that he possibly can. It may not be possible to overexpose Harry Styles

is maybe the lesson, but if it is possible, it'll happen. I don't know that Taylor's going to go do that. He and Harry Lambert are still coming up with new things to bedazzle on like cropped t-shirts. So as long as that's still going, I believe in him.

I'm very happy for him. Just every time I open TikTok and see Harry Styles videos, I'm just like, go home, sir. Yeah. No, it's like, I've seen it now. Thank you. It's wonderful. It's so good. But unless you got a giant-

I will take it. I will take more and more and more of it. It's lovely. I'm just like, how is this man still touring? Yeah. Well, he's newly single and maybe that's the energy that he's getting. Right. Right, right, right.

Look, Taylor also, this is something that could take a break for six months change. and go out with new different music. I think this is now a little bit of a touring carnival in that she's got so much material that she could be quote unquote on tour with this for the next three years and just do it sort of sporadically, as we're seeing here. She just got a lot, again, as the shirt said,

there's a lot going on at the moment, and she's making a lot of money from this tour. She doesn't need another billion dollars necessarily. So, I think it's fine for her to balance her personal life, her professional life, meaning her interest in film making, and what clearly is a continued creative spark around music, if we're to believe the pictures that she took in the studio with Jack Antonoff, who was not the producer on the recently released songs.

There's more music that's coming. Like, it's cool that she's, as you say, seeing if she can actually do this. I mean, you and I, by the end of an hour and a half podcast are feeling a little hoarse. Right. So speaking of which, those songs that she dropped on the eve of this tour are sort of the one thing that I have on my notes here that we haven't gotten to. Let's talk about the songs themselves first, but that I also want to, and I guess we've gotten to it a little bit and how this all fits into if and when we're going to get to speak now and 1989, Taylor's version and all of that stuff and all of the releases that may at some point be coming. we can talk about the timing of the drop

and how we dug for them on Spotify, but eyes open, all the girls you've loved before, safe and sound, if this were a movie, Taylor's versions. What did you think? I mean, I thought that eyes open, she redid with a producer who was in the band White Snake

and in the band Nelson, which most people probably don't know what the fuck that is, but like two of the biggest like 80s hair bands of all time. Like they basically had the same hair that she has on the debut cover. Maybe that was the inspiration. It might have been. But other than that, I thought it was a strange choice. Everything about it was strange unless you think she's clearing the decks

and erasing songs that could be associated with Speak Now because those are songs where she had some co-writers, I believe. And now she could just put out Speak Now and say, this is the album that I wrote all by myself with nobody else. And I've just re-re-re-she doesn't have to clear it. She doesn't have to do any of that. Right. So, and in particular, if this were a movie,

had been on Speak Now Deluxe, that now seems to belong to the fearless era and the Taylor's versions don't have Deluxe, separate deluxe versions. So it's not as easy to delineate things. That way? Sure. Fine. I guess. It's, it's for someone who, and I, I, I, I, I tend to look at, uh, her ability, ability to be choreographed and, and her emphasis on planning and go, I don't get why people hold this against her because I think it's really wonderful. Right. I also think that we should

acknowledge that there are times when this is just like, she's an agent of chaos. Like, what's going on? These things were so hard to find. Impossible. These songs are so random. All the girls is really fun, but like, it doesn't, it didn't feel like, oh my God, it's the eve of the tour. I have to get this out.

I think like 12 million people have streamed it on Spotify. It's not like. I think 12 million people couldn't find it on Spotify. She buried it in a hole down by the river. I mean, there's nothing. I don't understand it. I don't understand it. The only thing that makes sense is that she's clear in the decks.

I went to dinner last night. By the way, at like a, you know, sort of like an old red saucy New York City Italian place, they were playing, they had fearless just the entire album on repeat. So somebody must, somebody in the kitchen or whatever was like on it and really needed to hear it. But I was just laughing at like the cultural reach this woman has because it was the last place on earth that I would be like, Oh yeah, Taylor Swift is on the soundtrack here. Do you want the spicy meatballs? Yeah, seriously.

So that was really funny. But some of the people that I was with were like asking me on behalf of other people how to find the sauce. I know. Because they were so buried. I don't get it. And at times I think there's a method to the madness. At times, I think they're just being very, very conservative about how they were

roll out this music because, again, if the primary purpose was to stop other people right now who are making money off your art and to reclaim control of that, you'd put it out. We know it's done. I guess we don't know, no, it's done. We're pretty sure it's done and ready. And so... Yeah, and this is not the stuff, but this is not the stuff that you put out to do that, right? I mean, I guess every little bit counts, but I don't think that they're... No, no, no. This is not a marketing can for that. I don't think they're losing a lot on people streaming the original version of Safe and Sound. Like, no shade to that song, but I don't, no.

It's not gobbling up the revenue. This was some box checking for what comes next. And that is why, as I said, six hours ago when this podcast started, I think there's reason for optimism. I think these are clear signals that there is a lot of stuff coming ahead and that the creative output is going to continue. we're going to have new stuff before this tour is over. All right. Let's end this way. I want to know,

even in advance of that, because I think we both think that Speak Now is coming. 1989 is probably coming, but right now it's tour time. You and I both have a little bit of waiting to do before we get to see this thing after getting a sense of what's in the set list,

what it looks like, you can't say cruel summer because that's too easy. Why? But other than that, what are you most excited for? Oh. You can't, because it's too easy. We would both say it and it would be boring. Okay.

People listen to us talk about this for like an hour and ten minutes. We have to give them something. We can't just, you know. Okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I am extremely, you know I love Evermore. And so I want to see Evermore in the flesh. I want to see what that feels like in the arena.

I want to see if she pulls it off, A. B, I just, I cannot wait to hear the crowd in particular on all too well-tenment version. Just like seeing that energy and whether she's able to keep it up night and night out. I think she's going to be able to. It sure looks like it. But I just, I can't wait to sort of be in the moment. Because I have such a bigger appreciation for that song, as we talked about through the course of this podcast, I wasn't that into all too well. I mean, I got it, but I really wouldn't that all that.

I love the 10-minute version. Whatever. I love the 10-minute version. Like, on a relative basis. I thought I'll tell what was fine, but it just didn't feel like it was a song necessarily for me. The 10-minute version got me

just completely wrapped around the finger of that song. And then I guess, lastly, Bajouled is still with me. And I'm excited to see that one live. Yeah. How about you? Oh, also. Yes.

I can't wait for Buclead. You do not know how excited I was the first night watching the stream when Bev showed up on midnight rain and Lavender Haze. I was like, fuck yeah, they brought her along. I'm so glad Bev gets to come on the door. Bev's going to fill in for Taylor for six nights when she dislocates an elbow jumping into the non-existent ball pit. I can't go for four seconds. Not 44 songs. Bev definitely can't do 10 minutes all too well.

We got to keep Bev away from that territory. It's too long. Way too long for Bev. Bev is actually, Bev is the ball pit. Bev and Joe together catch Taylor. And then they put her onto the rocket sled and they shoot her down to the other side of the stadium.

What's your moment? I am very excited for 10 minute all too well. I think that's going to be cathartic. I also, I just think karma seems like an absolute blast. You were on it before I was. You, you, it feels like it's the right finisher and I wasn't super into it and you really loved it from the beginning. So, points to you. I love that song. I love it so much.

Karma is a cat. That one I'm really excited for. I think that the vigilantee shit chair routine is making a lot of people behave in an unsurious fashion on the internet, which I support. But that's amazing. Go off, Tay. really like burning down the lover house. I'm very excited for that. The fearless spin, the sparkly guitar.

I'm just excited for the whole thing. But if I have to pick, all too L10. New Romantics in the acoustic set. No, I keep telling you that I've made my peace with this. I don't think it's happening. You love that song. I don't need it to happen. It's like Valentine's Day.

You'd love that song. If I could choose, if I could choose my surprise song, I think they would be our song and death by a thousand cuts. I say, Shandalee still flickering here because I can't pretend it's okay when it's not. Okay.

I'll pass the message along. Thank you. Anything else, Nathan? Are we all set? We're going to be back. There's more shit coming. Are you going to tell people why you're appearing in random internet photos

with Maddie Healey? No. Is this why you're entering ketosis so that you can eat raw meat? Can you do that? Yes. It might be. All right.

Well, we'll keep you posted on all of that. This has been every single album. Thank you for listening. I'm Nora Preciati. As always, he's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you so much to Kai McMullen for her wonderful production on this episode. And we will talk to you soon.