Every Single Album - The Eras Tour Kicks Off Its Last Leg and Remembering Liam Payne

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

Nathan talks about his experience watching Joni Mitchell perform at the Joni Jam (1:00). Then he and Nora discuss all the news that came out of Taylor Swift’s three Miami shows, including her giving Dave Portnoy a letter and debuting a new Reputation bodysuit (12:37). Finally, they take a moment to remember Liam Payne, the One Direction member who passed away last week (40:22). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, this is a true story. I have a friend who once faked his own death so he could have more time to watch his favorite TV show. In my new podcast, Truthless, I'm talking to people about the lies they tell, from forging new identities to taking their love of Game of Thrones a little too far. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Brian Phillips. Listen to Truthless on Spotify or wherever. you get your podcasts. Oh, and welcome to every single album.

I'm Nora Prynciatti, and I am here, as always, with Nathan Hubbard. However, for this week and this week only, we have a little bit of a setup going on because I'm in Los Angeles for Ringer Spotify extravaganzas. Nathan is pretending to be surprised as he is want to do. He is not surprised by this. He knows this. However, Nathan refused to come to the office to replace. to record in person. It's too far. He won't leave his beachside on play.

What? If you tell people you're in Los Angeles, you could also be like in Maine talking to somebody in New York and it would take about the same amount of time. You are far away from me right now. This does not count as an opportunity to be together. This week, there's going to be an opportunity for us to be together in person for the fifth time ever. Yeah, I think it's the fifth time. And we're going to find it. But it was not during this podcast. Nobody drives east in rush hour in L.A., Nora. So, Kaya and I are in the same room, which is very exciting. I'm recording at the Spotify Studios. Nathan is at home.

Kaya offered Nathan, again, the opportunity to come be with us. And Nathan's response via text was, that's going to be suboptimal. Kaya offered Nathan That sounds like a You sound like newsmax being like We offered Kamala Harris the opportunity to come on And be completely raked over the coals Kaya and I went to Nathan

You know on unbended knee Pleading Pleading for him to come Slum it with us in the office And he absolutely refused That's a fair way to put it Anyway here we are I'm glad that you're in the same

studio with Kai so that you can see her like going into the dark corners of the internet while we yap. Yeah. Well, actually, no, she has her laptop tilted away from me. I can actually just not see the screen. Nathan accused me of watching anime

while you guys are recording so out of pocket. It was so random. I don't know what about me strikes him as an anime person, but I promise I'm not doing. I promise I'm hanging on your both every single word. One of our coworkers who shall run made nameless. I was like, meeting in person for the first time was quasi introduced to and was like,

oh, where do you live in New York? And then goes, actually, no, I'm going to guess, which first of all, never a good idea. And then goes, like. Why, is that like asking you how much you weigh? Is it that invasive? It's not that bad, but it's, it's just like, I just feel like, let me make a snap judgment about you is like interesting energy to start off a conversation with. And, And the answer was, oh gosh, did he say Midtown or did he say like Hill's Kitchen? It was the most like 25 year old finance bro neighborhood possible. And I was just like, damn it. That's tough.

And that was the energy that you were coming with with anime. Well, if it's not anime, it's like weird ASMR that she's secretly listening to instead of us. She can't, okay, we're not going to talk about this anymore. We're going to do a podcast. The Ares Tour is back, and we're going to have a lot of fun talking about that. Taylor Swift gave us quite a bit to talk about. And then, sadly, we are going to use some time in this episode to reflect on Liam Payne, who obviously died tragically last week, just the memories and the feelings that it's brought up in the One Direction community over the last several days and how we're feeling. But I thought it would be better and more fun for us to start on a brighter note. So that'll mostly be with the Ares Tour. However, before we get there, I do, Nathan, need to ask you about your Instagram.

If I went to your Instagram right now, I would see a photo of Joni Mitchell, Meryl Streep. Who else? Who else is in this photo in just like a back room somewhere where you were hanging out last night? It was the Joni Jam at the Hollywood Bowl. She played two nights there. This was the same thing that we saw her do at the Newport Folk Festival where Brandy Carlisle basically got Joni out of her shell.

Joni had very difficult health issues a decade ago, and in that time, she sort of slowly come back to health, and after seemingly hanging up the shoes has been coaxed outward into some performances, but only when surrounded by just a gaggle of what appears to be just a totally random set of friends from all different walks of life and generations surrounding her. And last night was the last night of the two nights

that she played at the Hollywood Bowl. This is not going to be a big tour. This is not something that she can, I think wants to sustain like a big full tour on. But last night she did it in L.A. two nights. And it was stunning. And everybody was there from Elton John and Annie Lennox. Yes, Elton John also in the photo.

Sitting up on stage with her. She covered I'm Still Standing to Marcus Mumford and Lucius and, gosh, there just was this whole. like crew up on stage. Brandy Carlyle's sort of the conductor of it all. But man, when I tell you, Stephen Stills was out, which if you don't know the Joni Mitchell, Crosby Stills Nash lore,

it was like, oh, but also the next generation was there. Lucy Dacus was there. Chapel Rhone was there. Wow. And all of them, pre-show, crammed into a little room

around the legend Joni Mitchell warming up singing, I'm still standing. Singing California. California. I'm going to see the folks I dig. Joni's epic song. It was just a magical, magical night. And so much of the royalty came out.

The funniest thing I have to say is that I don't know how many people recognize Chapel Rhone. It's probably the only... The only crowd that she's been in because it was an older crowd. Like there were young people in the audience, but it was an older crowd. And I think Chapel, certainly backstage everybody knows who she was. The front of house camera people were like, oh, that's Chaparone. But I think she was able to probably walk amongst the 60 plus year olds who were in the crowd without being immediately recognized. but it was fascinating to see this lineage of music.

The legacy artists in Joni Mitchell and Elton and Annie Lennox, Marcus Mumford, who is sort of this chameleon, Mumford and Son, sort of being the godfathers of the Zach Bryan, Noah Khan genre that has sort of had this resurgence to what's next in Jacob Collier and Lucy Dacus and Chapel Rhone, all sort of worshipping at the temple of Joni. And again, Brandy Carlisle being the one, the architect of this, I mean, it really is a celebration of Joni Mitchell's music.

And I was sort of surrounded by both, or filled with both like joy at seeing this happen and being so happy that she survived her health issue to get to a point at 80, almost 81 years old, where her music can sort of properly be, presented to the world as something that shaped in so many ways all of the artist's careers who were on stage last night and in the crowd. But also just like this profound sadness of knowing that everything has, you know, Father Time is undefeated. And I don't know whether

Joni Mitchell is going to perform again. And that filled me with sort of a deep, a deep sense of sadness. But also appreciation as you look at an artist like Chapel, who is in in that moment of fragility now and making sure that we all, as we've talked about, are appreciative of the art and the artists when we have them around. So I hate to follow up that gorgeous sentiment with this very trivial question. However, based on what you just said, it popped into my head. And I just, I need to know if you have a point of view on this one or another. Does Meryl Streep know who Chapel Rona is?

Merrill Street knows who Chaparone is, yes. Merrill was on stage. Yeah, John Batiste was on stage. Yes. Merrill knows who Chaparron is. Do you think before that point, Meryl Streep would know who Chapel Rona is? You know, it's hard to say because she,

I believe that Meryl Streep knows who Chaparona is because of the interaction. Yes, I do. Elton has been a massive chaperon, Chapel supporter. Yes. And, you know, they invited, even though Chapel and Lucy weren't on stage,

they invited them into the warm, into Joni's dressing room to warm up and to sing those couple of songs as a group, all the musicians in there. And I just have to tell you, like, it was a humbling experience for all involved, right? Marcus walked out of there and was joking. He was like, just another Sunday, you know,

and Chapel and Lucy walked out, and their eyes were as big as dinner plates. It just looked like they were all like, what the fuck am I doing here? And it was just so sweet to see each person in that room. Even Elton was just effusive about chapel, effusive about Jacob, like Jacob's piano playing. He was just seeing all of these legends and icons,

it just was this wonderfully humbling experience for these artists who, on the one hand, are massive stars. And on the other hand, as Us Weekly likes to remind us, they're just like us. Well, that is sick. That is just a very cool event. And, you know, hopefully all of those people, especially someone like Chapel, it gives you a goalpost for this is what it can be.

If you find a way, if you just find a way and people give someone the grace to like, you know, keep their head on straight and stay sane. and just keep at it and keep the creative well flowing. Like, how cool. Just how cool to be around Johnny Mitchell. Like, that's just so cool. I can't imagine what that must have been like to,

I mean, for you to be in that room, but for all of those people to just, like, go hum a warm-up tune. Like, that is, like, life-defining awesomeness. I texted my parents. I did. That's so cool. Had to.

And you posted a story so people can go check that out. All right. You're ready to talk about Taylor Swift? Let's do it. Another Johnny Mitchell fan. Another massive Joni Mitchell fan.

We had the final rain show of the Ares Tour because every stadium from here is going to be inside. So she seemed to embrace that. We had, I assume, the final performance of

Florida. We had a Dave Portnoy backstage letter delivery. Do you want to talk about that now or do you want to wait? Let's talk about the show and then... No, we're going to talk about it now. I almost tweeted today. It's an interesting choice to give a note to Portnoy and not Prince Iati. Wow.

Wow. But I didn't think... I don't need a note. I don't want to make that about this. I know. But I think that's the sentiment. And I was like, I caught myself because I was like, that's the sentiment that everybody's feeling. Everybody's just jealous.

And yes, he's being performative, maybe not as a Swifty, but taking it to his story and showing off the note. That's kind of what he does. Like, it is an art of goading people and sort of the bravado is the character. And maybe it's him, the individual. I don't know. But the attention that it's getting from the Swifty. community. The whole thing is a very interesting work of art, isn't it? Oh, I mean, I guess, but like, I was pissed about it and I don't think that it has much to do with like jealousy.

I think that guy's a loser. And it like makes me feel weird about how she sees the world if, particularly because part of the sentiment in the note was like when the world was against me, you were there for me. And I just, I, that is my least. favorite impulse of hers is the crouching tiger thing because... You think she has any idea who he is? Yeah, because I don't think, like, yeah, no, I don't know if she has the right idea about who he is, but I think that if she is going to go out of her way to do that, like, what do we always say about Taylor Swift? Nothing happens by accident. And I have no idea if...

if she's acting on good information, bad information, complete information. But, like, at a certain point, that is kind of, I don't know if it's on her, I don't know if it's on tree or whoever, but, like, you should figure out who you're associating yourself with. And I was scrolling through some of the Swifty Reddit threads today, and there was a lot of disappointment. And I do think that there is a little bit of a thing where, like, we should make it possible for not everything to be a five alarm fire. Like, it, it can be a, it can be a move that I don't love and not be, like, it's fine.

She wrote a letter. We only know about it because he took it public in order to drum up this kind of a response from people like you. Yeah, but like, I don't really. Why give it oxygen? Because it's. It's like major pick-me energy for him to do that, and it's fine. But he knows what he's doing.

As soon as she sends the letter, like, that is a possibility, if not a probability. I also don't like, if a tree, you know, it's sort of like if a tree falls in the forest, like, if she writes the letter and expresses that to him and he doesn't take advantage of the moment to say, hey, look at me, I got this letter from Taylor Swift. Like, does that necessarily make it better? You tell me? I don't really think so. Like, I just, I, I, I, the feelings that you're, that you're reacting to is you see her being someone who gets into that crouch and either you're with me or against me. And that's the only filter that I use to decide whether I like you. I think when Taylor Swift gave her very good Billboard Woman of the Decades speech, something that she said, and she, you know, she was talking about Scooter Braun at this point.

But she said, let me just say that the definition of the toxic male privilege in her. industry is people saying, but he's always been nice to me. And of course he's nice to you. If you're in this room, you have something he needs. And I don't think she's showing a lot of awareness of the exact dynamic that she called out in that moment by doing this. I just, I don't think she has full information. Well, but again, that's sort of, yeah, I honestly, I don't either. I don't either. But like, I sort of think that it's, that then she shouldn't take the risk. Yeah.

But again, I don't want to, I don't want to make it like this is the biggest deal in the world. It's a, it's a fucking that sort of was my reaction.

But I do think that sometimes, like, sometimes she has moments where she will post her endorsement and it is the most lucid,

like, perfectly crafted targeted way of doing that for really the only celebrity that could probably really make a difference in that kind of mode. And I just find myself being like, this person has maintained a genuinely shocking and impressive ability to see the world, understand what's needed of her, and understand how she can, you know, move through the world in the way to do what she needs to do for her career, but also like make a difference and have her head on straight.

And she just seems to like get it, which feels shocking for someone who's had the life experiences that she has. And then there are some moments when I'm like, ah, I don't know that Taylor, like, fully gets what's going on or has full information, which in some ways, like, I don't know how a person in her position could. But I have felt recently sometimes like she kind of toggles back and forth between those things. And it confuses me a little bit. And this is one where I was like, I wonder what your world is like that it feels like this is the right thing to do. there is a fall there's a fall tailor message that feels you know she she she put out the endorsement the celebrity endorsement i want to ask you about endorsement in a second but it does feel like there's an underlying part of her message which is that we can disagree and not kill each other but i'm not sure uh that this is the execution of it do you think that dave portnoy's involvement in the swifty community and the ways in which he, and I'll just put in quote, supports her, has been net positive for Taylor and the fan base?

I think it has been net neutral. I don't think it matters. I don't think, I think if that doesn't exist, I don't think, I think basically nothing about the Taylor Swift experience or the Taylor Swift project or the Taylor Swift Life or whatever it is is a shred different. I do think that, like, I think they, you know, and coming from someone who has a Taylor Swift podcast, I do think that they kind of use her for clout. So do a lot of people. Like, and where is the line between clout chasing and engaging with something that you genuinely love and think is interesting?

Like, I think sometimes it's hard to figure out. But I just, I don't understand why that's something that she was. would want to validate. Well, there's a lot of people who are asking that question. It will be interesting to see the dialogue from here. But I would, I would also say that giving it oxygen is the point and the, and the desire of making that note public and, you know, quasi-threatening to call tree and ban a fan or something. That part to me felt very performative and in service of attention. And that's, that's what he is amazing at. That's, right. Like, bear shits in woods.

Yeah. And so the question is, does the community want to give it oxygen or not? Yeah, to some degree. But I also think that like,

there's a level of that where it's sort of playing into what he's trying to accomplish. But it's also like, you're allowed to say that something is disappointing, right?

Like, it's, it is, it is, I think it is okay to express that. I do think that, like, some sense of proportionality

and understanding that this isn't the biggest deal in the world is probably healthy. Yeah. But I do think that like, I guess I just think that it's okay if, like, you can love Taylor Swift and have seen that pop up on your feet and be like, what the fuck, man? Like, wish that didn't happen, which was basically my summed up experience of it. Well, it did happen.

Was there anything else? What about Tom Brady being there? Did you feel? So Tom Brady goes to the area story. And then he posts. He was like, oh, I had so much fun at the story. the R's Tour. I think I'm in my reputation era. And I'm like, yeah, Tom, I've been saying this for years, buddy. Like, nothing has ever been more. I mean, talking about bear shitting in woods. Like, nothing has ever been more obvious. Tom Brady, in his reputation era. I mean, every, like, every NFL quarterback is a little bit in their reputation era for the most part. Like, that is the default. Aaron Rogers?

Yes. Right. Like, Kirk Cousins. I suppose is not in his reputation era. But the list of ones who are not is a lot shorter than the list of ones who are. But like Tom Brady, that is in part because most NFL quarterbacks this day and age take their cues from Tom Brady and try to act like Tom Brady

acts and has acted. And if you were to sum that energy up, it would involve like a lot of snakes. And what did you? you make of the TikTok that she posted? What do you think drives her to make a social post at this point? Like she walks out in the no it's Becky yellow sweatshirt. It didn't say no, it's Becky, but it's that yellow. It's fuck-ass yellow. And she's holding the cat. And she gives the camera a little look. So she's definitely, this is a pre-orchestrated, heavily Taylor Swift directed TikTok.

What do you make of that? Why in that moment has she chosen to post? I mean, she's really almost stopped posting online other than thank you for coming to my show. I mean, I suppose to kind of like start drumming up the fan engagement. Well, she put out the vinyl and the...

What else did she do besides the vinyl? in the week before. In the week before the tour started back up? Yeah. Well, she did the announcement about the book. The book and the vinyl came out. So that was the start of, hey, let me re-inject this into the conversation. You asked a while back if Torchipoits was ever going to have vinyl, and the answer is yes.

Yeah, she probably tries to drum it up for the holiday season. We got a book announcement on GMA. Nobody loves GMA like Taylor Swift. God forbid she ever goes on the sedation. However, I will say because I'm on a journey of trying to clown less in my personal life, I do think that one thing that I have achieved

is like... Nothing big was coming on GMA. It's been a minute. Yeah. She did do the Red Taylor's version announcement on GMA if memory serves. But like, since then, It's always something. It's worth knowing. But, like, I have successfully calmed my nerves when she's doing something on GMA. Because I've, I don't think she's going to announce reputation or debutation on Good Morning, Erica.

Well, it is a reminder that she remains always a commercial animal. And that is the Michael Jordan Republicans by Sneakers 2. part of maybe even the humoring of certain people who some of the fan base would wish that she wouldn't associate as much with. Yeah. It is undoubtedly a consideration. We saw that very famous scene in Miss Americana, the doc, where when she wanted to come out and make an endorsement, there were concerns not just for her safety, although most of it was for her safety. But some of it were for her sales numbers. for sure. Yeah, I guess I wish that someone in her position,

because I think that Taylor Swift's sales numbers are pretty untouchable, would exercise a little bit more confidence in that, if that's the case. But I almost want to put this way and talk about other stuff because I don't think that like the fact that Taylor Swift wrote Dave Portnoy a letter as little as I care for it. I don't think that we need to do an entire podcast on it. I just don't.

I think she did that. And that's her prerogative. And it's not going to, like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to change my point of view on Taylor Slift because of it. No, no. No. But there, look, the Miami shows,

my question to you was, why is she, when does she decide to post? Like, is it just like, all right, let's do it. That was a directed, thought out one. Is it, is it she's trying to reinsert herself into the narrative after a month off? Yeah, I think she's like, I'm back, bitches. And so we got TikToks, we got some things released. And it's like, hey, there's one more go. I mean, all the tickets are sold at this point, except for the secondary market, of course. But this is the last sort of bit of publicly in your face attention that she's going to get.

It suggests to me that by the end of this, there's a lot. will be some reputation just because, again, there are not tickets to sell in the commercial animal. Maybe it's just about the vinyl in the book, maybe. Well, so I think that by the end of this, there will be reputation because I guess I think she's... You had to think about that. Well, because here's what I think. If I had to guess right now, I would say that she's going to announce it on the last night of the tour. Right.

is that a weird way to end? Like, if you were Taylor Swift, would you think twice about ending the Erez tour in a way that makes it about something else? Or would you be like, sick? Here is this moment and here is how I'm going to like spin it forward into the thing that's going to come next, which happens to be a thing that like pretty clearly she's had in the bag for a while. And therefore she can take some time. She can step back, but she can still. put something out there. Yeah. Well, the countercase would be you've got a boyfriend who's a football player on an undefeated team that's going to be playing presumably into January. You've got a tour

that's going to go basically till your birthday in December. So you're going to be pretty heavily out in the public eye until then. If the goal is just sort of extension of attention, you might wait until after the Super Bowl put it out. Let's see if Travis continues to play football and you buy your time there. If you're just thinking about how to stay in the public consciousness, you probably wouldn't put it out in December. It's just that she has a thing with her birthday and with numbers and with the holiday season. And I just said that I'm trying to clown less in my personal life. But the new rep bodysuit is what you're going to talk about right now. No, it's not even the bodysuit. It's not the bodysuit. Like the body suit is awesome. I think that's super fun. It is the

fact that during 22, where she normally holds up the two, two, two fingers, she held up 5.5. Yeah. Fifty-five nights from that show, which is the Saturday show, is December 13. Yeah. That same night in a, like, goaded surprise song night, by the way, one of the mashers, was Lommel, which is how you say the name of that song, as far as I'm concerned. And Whitehorse. And then the other one was should have said no,

and I did something bad, which first of all is just like, that to me is a top five surprise song mashup. But it is also a mashup of songs from the only two remaining albums that do not have Taylor's versions. And I'm sorry that I can, I can't, like, here's what is a possibility is that it's not actually a sign about when rep is coming, when debut is coming, but she is actively trolling.

That feels possible to me. But if she is, but the only two possibilities are that she is actively trolling. Right. Actively planting red herrings. Or it means something. I'm not, like, the thing about the. the snake looks like a two. That's just what a snake looks like.

I'm not doing that. That's silly. She held a two fives. Yeah. She could have just been like being like waving at somebody, right? Like she could have had like a hand cramp. Or the fan was like holding up like come touch me

and she didn't go touch them directly. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, 55. She could also be somebody who counts down every single day until a birthday and wakes up and knows that it's 94 days. Yeah, but she hasn't been doing 9-4 during 22. Well, hard to do that with two hands, but yes.

Yeah, but... Okay, so you've told us the level of crazy that you will go to. But I don't, but she didn't do 54 the next night. Yeah, that's fair. When do you think it's coming? Yeah, I've been on record saying I thought that we would get something. around the holidays. If I was her, I would wait till after the Super Bowl to buy myself some time. But you think, if you were her, that's how you would do it, but you think it's coming around her

birthday. You think something's coming around her birthday. Yeah. The release of the book and the vinyl made me a little bit less confident. But we still have two months. And she doesn't need a setup. Speaking of other things that could be coming or will probably be coming at some point, she was pretty obviously getting filmed. 100%. And I think we've talked about this a little bit, and I'm just speculating, but like presumably because there's already a concert film of this tour,

the thing that would make the most sense. In addition to that would be some sort of behind the scenes, you know, airs tour documentary style. Yeah. The cameras are not following her around all over the place and talking to openers and all that just because they wanted footage for the, I can do it with the broken heart video. She's putting it together

and if she's happy with it and feels like they got good stuff, of course she's going to release a BTS documentary about the highest grossing one of the most impactful tours of all time. Yes. It's just when. Well, but that is something

that in theory could come out around her birthday. That would be something she could release them that is not reputation or debut. or debutation. Yeah, I would have told you that I'd be surprised if that came out before the tour ends. But, you know, I was surprised at how quickly the live concert video came out.

I mean, again, like the tickets are sold. A year ago, yeah. So let's see how fast they can actually work. But I do think the live concert video was, they didn't have to make as many editorial decisions about the content. the content of the show. It was about, did we get the shot? Is this the right angle? When are we cutting away to Nathan's daughters? Etcetera. Big meaning on that one. You can have your

fucking letter. I got my daughters in the airs tour. I know. I know. It was like really iconic. But I just think it's a more difficult. I don't have a letter. Edit. There's a lot of time. I open the pod by saying you should have one. I don't need a letter. I don't deserve a letter. It's fine. You're fine. You're fine. you have impact and we have reason to believe that there's listening to your voice that happens in lots of ways. So don't, don't, well, so I just think it's going to be harder to piece that thing together because there's more decisions that have to be made. Do we want this in? Do we want it out? You know, is this an infomercial? Are there hard moments that I'm comfortable being in there?

How much Travis, if at all, right, all that stuff are, those are editorial decisions that have to be made. So. Sure. Lots of content from Taylor's still going to come, even though this tour is going to end. It's really true. Did it feel to you at all, at all? Like, yeah, yeah, okay. Like, did you have excitement for her to come back?

Or did it feel like, you know, this has kind of been in our consciousness now for 18 months? Oh, I had excitement. I knew people who were going, who were really excited about going. It didn't feel like this again at all? No, because I also. think that, like, to me, I felt some sense in some of the clips that crossed my feeds of, like, it had a certain curtain call energy to it. Like, even the way that she hugs Florence, where after the last night, I mean, I suppose we don't, it's not like confirmed that Florence

isn't going to come to Indianapolis or whatever, but I assume that that's a Florida thing. Um, they just hugged each other and kind of jumped up and down. And maybe this is just me projecting my own sort of like pre-nostalgia for the end of the tour. But the vibe of it to me was like, this is the last time we're ever going to do this. Like, holy shit, we were a part of this together. And where she talked about the little monologuing about the rain show, this is our last opportunity for the rain show. Like, I don't know. I got these little tingles of this is the on.

core almost. And I thought that felt exciting. I don't know if did, did any of that come through to you? Yeah. What came through to me was the confidence and comfort with this show. Totally. And the way that she was sort of just prowling around on stage. Yeah. But I also have to say that with it coming back, it feels like it's time. Like the Ares Tour was a presentation of a whole bunch of Ares. And it's time for her to move into the next one. So I hope she has a great little victory lap here. It would not be like her to go out without a bang. It would not be like her to just sort of say goodbye and not leave something for the fan base at the end of the tour. So we'll see. It remains. Don't get me wrong. I'm 100% sure. I guess to the extent that you can be 100% sure about anything that has to do with Taylor Swift. But like this tour is ending in Vancouver. They're not going to be surprise dates announced, whatever. It's still so random. It's ending in Vancouver. It is. Good night, Vancouver. It's the biggest tour of all time.

See you later. I'm going to go take the ever-popular Vancouver to Kansas City flight. Maybe she'll take a couple days off. She'll go on one of those like orca whale watches. I did that shit this summer. Why not? I got some ideas. That's cool.

Super cool. I've never been to Vancouver, but I really want to go. I've heard it's amazing. Yeah, December not really the time. Yeah. That wouldn't be my first choice month. But it's funny. Anything else on Deer Tay?

No, I think we covered it. There is quietly a lot happening there. And the most interesting satellite view question for me is, what's next? Will we see her or will she unplug and shut down for a while and use some of the things that, as you talked about, are in the bag. reputation, presumably debut, the behind-the-scenes thing, to stay present in our consciousness. Hey, one we haven't mentioned. T.S.12. To stay present in our consciousness without physically having to be there.

The thing about this tour is she's a non-scalable resource. That's the point. That's why the ticket prices are so high. She could go do 500 more of these shows. But she personally can't actually do that and have her own life. She has some content that the marginal cost of delivery is zero. So she can distribute that around the world and stay in our minds. That's really why I asked you about the TikTok,

because how much of that will we get? Will she stay present? Or will she have that sense that, man, maybe it's time for me to go away. Maybe Travis and I now having done our sort of Prince and Princess Tour of America for a year and a half post-playoffs or whenever that Kansas City season ends, will they want some sort of return to whatever normalcy looks like for them where they can feel what it's like to actually be together for two contiguous weeks?

Sure, for sure. I guess we'll see. All right. Switching gears, and obviously this is a hard thing to talk about it in a lot of ways because this is just an unbelievably tragic story. But Liam Payne is someone that you and I have spent a fair bit of time talking about, enjoying talking about,

enjoying talking about, you know, his work in One Direction and some of his solo work. And as I think people know, he died last week. God, I hope you didn't just break that to anybody. I know. I really hope not do. But I have a feeling for our audience. That's not going to be the case.

But, I mean, just how have you been feeling, Nathan, since that news? Yeah, I've been feeling sad. I've been feeling like a lot of the discussion that you and I've had through the summer and end of this fall has been around that redefinition and rethinking of the artist fan relationship and the impossibility of being young and famous

and how what stands out most all of the unicornness of Taylor Swift, having just talked a lot about her, is her ability to have handled being young and famous. And it is that drive and that sort of manic work ethic, that maniacal work ethic that has sort of powered her through and that focus and energy. And most creatives do not have that. They just don't. And so being thrust into the spotlight and all of the psychological things that come with that is incredibly difficult. And what we saw through the spring and fall were some,

some in summer were some artists who could handle that. And we saw some artists who struggled with it. And I feel like, for better or worse, one direction were, you know, along with Beaver and a few others, they were the guinea pigs for being massively worldwide famous in the age of the internet, right? Yeah, I mean, and I really do think it is one direction. It is Taylor and it is Justin Bieber. And obviously they've handled that in different ways. And I do think that that is a different experience for a band versus an individual person. Yeah.

And some particular ways. Yeah. But those three artists or groups, like they are the people who made stardom in the social media age what it is. And I do, I wonder if we're a little bit at an inflection point now where maybe there are some people, maybe it's chapel, maybe some people coming along kind of trying to spin that forward into whatever the next iteration of it is going to be and what that's going to be like and reframe some of that. But the world that we have lived in for the last decade plus, like 10 to 15 years, maybe closer to 20 even, if you go back to like, earliest MySpace days of Taylor, I really think those are the three entities who have made it what it's like.

But it's not just hard when you're famous. Because it's really hard when you're famous, it's really fun when you're famous. But it's incredibly hard when you're not famous. And in this case, it was even harder, I think, for Liam to be one of the least famous guys at the end and have the least level of success of the guys, right? Zane came in with his own set of mental health challenges, I think, and found a way to be reclusive.

Nile, I think most people feel like, is like a solidly grounded guy who's got a lot of Irish folks around him who keep him whole. And thank God for them, like truly. Yeah. Louis picked up smoking. Harry may not be a, You know, he may not have the intellectual horsepower. Harry has a really, really good manager. Harry has an excellent manager, but that doesn't mean that Harry mentally necessarily would have been able to handle it on his own.

I think there's a, let's just call it, Harry seems to be blissfully detached from the complications of, and details of day-to-day life. Yeah. The movie feels like a movie. Maybe a euphemism for, yeah, exactly. You know, would Harry blow

away an IQ test. I don't know. Maybe that helped him in some ways. I don't know. Maybe he would. I don't know. But what I'm saying is like he seemed to be able to either compartmentalize it or be unaffected by some of the things of fame. And that has some superhuman qualities to it. And Liam didn't. Like Liam was the dad and he was the sort of guideer and the protector, which we saw in a

lot of the notes that the boys posted. Yeah. And there came a moment where he went out. and put out LP1 and it didn't go well. Yeah. After some singles that seemed promising. And then there was some weird tension and statements. And you could just see there were the addiction issues.

There was that slow downward spiral when you look back. And it's just a very, very, very sad story. And to me, a reminder that it is so unbelievably hard to be famous young. And it gets harder. It is hard to be a young person, period, today. It's hard to be a kid. in this world of interconnectivity and fake content and the dissolution of truth. It's hard to be a person. It's hard to be an adult. It's hard. Oh, yeah. All of those things are hard.

To be a kid who is famous seems nearly impossible at this point. And that's not to say that, you know, it's the fan's fault in any way, shape, or form. It's not. But as a society, you know, we got to think hard about how we lift up these children into an interconnected world. as quasi-deities, because the scorecard says that most of them don't make it out well. Yeah. Well, and I think it seems pretty clear that, you know, I think they all had, I think they all had a lot to deal with. But Zane seems pretty clearly like the person who struggled the most being in one direction. and Liam's... I mean, this news, he postponed his tour. Right.

Well, but then Liam seems like the one who has struggled the most without one direction, which is not to say that all of that time in the band was universally, like, productive and uncomplicated and good. I mean, this is someone who's had a lot of issues with alcohol and drugs and addiction and has shared stories of because the... it is the fan intensity, but I don't say that in a blaming way, but like because the fervor around them was so intense when they were on the road,

there was nothing that the people around them could really do other than lock them in their rooms. And so they spent a lot of time just like hold up in hotel rooms and, you know, it's in a hotel room is a mini bar. And I just, like, that's just so sad. It's just such a sad. like these people

The whole thing is achingly said. They've brought so much joy to so many people and brought so many people together and the fact that like something that seems like it should be the first thing that people would worry about. It's like how are these people

going to maintain any sense of normalcy and stay healthy through this experience? I'm not sure ultimately. And clearly they had some some really good people around them and maybe some people who weren't so good. On the whole, it doesn't seem like the care and feeding of One Direction when they were like 14 and 15 years old.

I don't know if time will look back on that as something that was like really humane. And obviously, some of that has to do with the nature of superstardom and fan communities and how like we as the public treat. as you said, these people who are actually just teenage boys, but end up getting lifted up as these quasi-deities. And that is really complicated and weird in a lot of ways. It also has to do with the fact that, like, I'm sure there are some really, really good people in the music industry who like working with young people. I do think that there's something that at least deserves a second glance when people are making immense amount of money off of teenagers.

Like it's just a really it's a weird situation and it's in some ways I guess sadly not that strange that there are a lot of awful stories that

end up being the outcome. This is, look, it's a terribly sad story. It is in hindsight one where it's like, gosh, how is there a way to

help someone that, you know, It's just the whole thing is awful. The way that it was revealed to the world from a picture cropped of a lifeless body through a, you know, desperate for attention quasi-newsite is disgusting. And all of it just speaks to, it speaks to the, like, the dark parts of humanity in this moment. Yeah. And as wonderfully advanced as we have.

become as a society in some ways we have regressed to some of our worst instincts and all of it is encapsulated in this story. To your point, like the exploitation of underaged boys for money, albeit for music, but still, you know, who knows the way they were treated, sort of being left to struggle with the fallout from that rise to fame and crash via addiction kind of on their own and certainly someone who had their own demons and who knows what's to be believed from the restraining order stuff that was filed, but all of it being public,

it just is impossible. The human brain could not possibly have evolved fast enough to adapt to what Liam Payne had to deal with in his life. On a slightly, like, I don't know, it's not a lighter note, but like it, when the news broke,

you texted me and Kaya and then I immediately went online, but I was, I was like very surprised by the number of messages that I got and the number of people who I don't think of as like directioners, but are, you know, like friends and people who are roughly my age, which is like maybe not, I think people who are a couple years younger than me are like truly the sort of core one direction age, but it's close enough. and it did make me think about like I think it is easy to miss how influential they are. It's a reminder. It is easy to miss. And when we talk about albums with Julian Bonetta on them,

you know, when we talk about the Sabrina Carpenter record, when we talk about albums that are still being made, that entire family tree stems from that band. You're exactly right. And Liam was a driving force and a glue. of that group. And that's what those statements

that were lovely from each of the boys reflected to me. Well, lovely from each of the boys. And then like, when they put out that statement together, I believe that was the first, like, act of one direction,

or at least, you know, the four remaining members of one direction since they went on, like, quote unquote, hiatus. Yeah. And so there is this sort of strength, like, people are grieving,

They're also trying to reconcile how to feel in a moment of tragedy about a very complicated person who had very recently been in the news for some really ugly things. But there also is this like, it's almost like, it's almost like people are sort of grieving the band or like grieving the moment in this period in life when a lot of people came together over a share love of something, sort of like developed a piece of their identity associated with being part of this fandom where a lot of people like forged community through One Direction. And like I know to me I was surprised how far out that extended to people who I don't think of

as like big One Direction fans. and it just like, I guess it's because we lived through it. And I think we think of like, we think of standum now as so, like, so active. It's so participatory. It's so like the people who are online and posting and really making it actively a part of their identity. But like when you, when you were there at the beginning, it was. Like, it could almost be passive, but you just felt so much like one direction mania was happening everywhere that I think it was a reminder to me of just how big that was and what a time that was and how influential it's ended up being to see the number of people who were sad together. And I mean, even seeing like Maggie Rogers do night changes at her show in Boston.

It was awesome. Was awesome and it was really poignant. Right on point. Yeah. And it was like an understanding of the fact that this, like, I do think that it's very easy to look at one direction and be like that was a silly little boy band. And like they were a silly little boy band in some ways. But it was bigger than a lot of people realize. I don't know. It had broader ramifications than a lot of people realize.

Definitely. And... Musically. Musically. I think people know it was big, but I don't think people understand the impact musically. You're right. And I guess I just like,

it was a very sad reminder of that, but it was a reminder of that. And, you know, for all of his flaws and all of his struggles, like this is someone who was a part of something. That was huge. And that has been a thing that a lot of people have come together around.

Look, they're going to go down as one of those bands that never got back together, right? The Beatles didn't get back together. Would they ever have gotten back together if John had not been shot? You know, if Oasis can get back together and the police can get back together, would John Lennon have pulled a Robert plant and, you know, just said, we're never getting Led Zeppelin back? And after John Bonham died, the drummer, you know, that was that. Insync is definitely going to get back together at some point in tour.

All of these bands seem to do it at the end of cycle so that they can get paid, to be honest. And also probably because they put bygones aside. They stop mauding with their brother and they get together. But this is going to be one of those bands that was never able to do it. And that is tragic because, to your point, like, that's, there are a lot of people around the world who were impacted by them. So that's that's the, it's just really sad that he's like, he's so clearly had not figured out how to be and who to be and who he was outside of one direction. And like, you know, you look at someone like Zane who has had some really major and public struggles. Yeah.

But who as far as I know has sort of like figured out how to. how to live a quiet life and like that was not to absolve you know a lot of people made a lot of mistakes but like he shut up with Camilla Cabello at Fashion Week or next to her he's around

but he's like for the most part out of the headlines right? Yeah yes and seems this is a total outsider's point of view I don't really know but like just how it seems seems like maybe he's

found a little bit of equilibrium. And it obviously was a messy process getting to that point. And I just, I find it very sad that, you know, someone has died who had a lot of struggles, many

of them seeming to stem from not being able to find that in the absence of being part of this thing. And he just will not get the chance to try to do it. that. And I just, you know, this is not to absolve any of the mistakes that he made or say that he was a flawless person. Clearly, that was not the case. But, like, it is just very sad that he will never

have that opportunity. All right. I think we can move on. There are a couple things that I want to just check in on with you before we close out here. I did not. New Gracie songs? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Talk about it. New Bonnie Verr songs? Well, and also New Lady Gaga and new Addison Ray coming this Friday. I just wanted to say that you really

clocked that there was going to be new Gaga soon and that it was going to, at least from the looks of this rollout and I think there have been some leaks of like producers and stuff like that. It is very clearly giving like, like not Tony Bennett Gaga. It is clearly giving pop Gaga.

You do not call your first single disease. Maybe it's death metal, but it's not the American songbook. I don't know. Could she do a song called? I was reading the lyrics that were pieced together through the website

and there were lowercase letters in song titles on Spotify because everybody wants to be Taylor Swift. And I was reading the lyrics and trying to see if I could hear it in my head in the tone of like shallow or of the Bruno Mars song, which is apparently like the number one song in the country

despite the fact that I feel like I've heard it four times. Yeah. Absolute maximum. But yes. But yeah, I just, I wanted to give you your flowers for clocking that and then I couldn't help myself but say that Addison Ray also coming out

with a single Aquamarine on the same day. Well, all that means, is there's going to be more for us to talk about in the weeks ahead. The new Bonney Bear stuff is really good. I like some of the Gracie stuff for sure. And I think it's fair to say that, and we've said this, I suppose, but I think Gracie, as a performing artist, has evolved more in the last year than most artists evolve over the course of five years.

She has maybe had a motion coach. Maybe she's just watched Taylor do it, and she's figured it out. but she has evolved. Her live performances are much more vibrant and interesting than they were when she opened, the last time that she was opening for Taylor on this tour. She looks great.

That's awesome. It's also very funny to me to see Paul Miscal revive his role as... I suppose he's not the first gentleman of the heirs tour anymore because he was considered that in a pre-Travice-Celsea world. But he is the second gentleman of the Ares tour. with the second girlfriend or love interest.

You think he just recycled the all-axis pass? I mean, maybe. Like, they probably did still have his, like, social security number on file. The credentials. There is, like, like, when you do NFL stuff and you have to give them all of your information, it is, like, you need to upload a photo

and it needs to be this resolution and cropped in this way. Like, he probably stuck with the same one. Also, do you know the lore about Paul Muskell running away from his dates? What? You don't know this lore? No. Okay.

There was like, this came from like tabloid stories. There was de moi nonsense. But there was, there was a rumor that after a romantic encounter, after multiple like, quasi-casual romantic encounters, Paul Mescal, like, took off running away from women. And then he had a habit of at the end of a date or at the end of some sort of interaction, like he would just get up and sprint. And this is obviously not true.

But he recently did a magazine profile where he was asked about it. And he, like, leaned in and was very funny about it and was like, no, but my mom found out about that. And it's the whole thing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I will just say that... This is all news to me. Okay, it is just a very funny. It is like one of the funniest,

clearly apocryphal tabloid stories of the last five years. However, all of this to say, huge missed opportunity for Taylor to play The Bolter. Then she runs like it's a race behind her back. Her best mates left. And they nicknamed her the Bolter. Well done.

That was like, yeah, well done. It took a little bit of a windup. No, good job. That was like a Chappelle standup. Great job. Thank you. You brought it back home. You landed the plane.

I love the boulter. What a great song. This has been every single album. Yeah. It's like, we're done. We're getting out of here. Cue it. This has been every single album.

As always, I'm Norr Princiatti. He's Nathan Hubbard. She's Kaya McMullen in the studio with me. Nathan refusing to coming out with us. Maybe see you this week. See you this week. We will be back next week. Thank you for listening.