Every Single Album - 'The Great Impersonator' | Every Single Album: Halsey

Episode Date: November 1, 2024

Nora and Nathan break down Halsey's intensely personal album 'The Great Impersonator.' They discuss the rollout for this and whether or not it needed to be a concept album (1:00), how Halsey's health struggles inspired many of the songs on this record (22:42), and what comes next for the artist after she thought that this could be the last album she would ever make (49:16). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producers: Kaya McMullen and Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did you know that scientific studies have found most people lie once every 10 minutes? In my new podcast, Truthless, I'm talking to people about the lies, they tell, from faking illnesses in high-pressure moments to making up stories on national TV. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Brian Phillips. Listen to Truthless on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I am joined by The Fabulous Nathan Hubbard, and we are going to talk about Halsey, the great impersonator, new album released last Friday today, and one that kind of snuck up on me in a sense, but that's been really exciting and interesting to dig into. Nathan. Did it sneak up one of you?

Well, so I was going to caveat that, and then I figured I would just save it for our last. little intro here. It snuck up on me in the in musically and we'll get there. But what I want to hear from you first is what your experience was of the rollout of this album, which was the first thing that I noticed about it and sort of took in of it. A rollout that to me was both strange and eye-catching and something that I think a lot of our listeners probably at least noticed in some capacity, which involved Halsey in really extensive stage makeup, costume, hair design, whole, you know, dress up situation as various artists who have inspired her and inspired each of the songs on this album. I think given that we have the album, we have a little bit more

context on what this is all supposed to mean and how it plays into the album as a whole. However, for a while, I'll tell you point blank, my experience was just like every few days there was a crazy photo of Halsey dressed as Bruce Springsteen or someone else. What was that like for you? Yeah, same thing. I think around the industry, there were a lot of like sort of crinkled foreheads of perplexion and like they're just very unsure about where this was going and thinking that actually there was some concern around how this thing was going to be received and that the rollout didn't feel like it was resonating with people. Let's put it that way. You know, you go back and to your point, in context, I feel like it makes a little bit more sense. I don't know that

critically, this album is going to be a home run and lauded in the way of some of the other albums that we've seen this year. But I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised. And I've seen some reviews that sort of poo-poo this concept, which we should talk more about. Well, one in particular, right? There's a pitchfork review that is not good and plays into this whole relationship between Halsey and pitchfork that is completely. on both sides, it seems, and has been for a long time. Have you seen other things? My sense is that it has been mostly positive.

Yeah, I think so. It's just a... This album was written on the edge of death and survival. And so, while I think the pictures and the impersonations that were coming on social media almost had a little bit of, like, I mean, they were sort of funny. You know, a little bit. Well, they were a little clowny. Yeah, I was going to say clowny.

Yeah. For an album that is very much not clowny is talking about, you know, for the most part. Couldn't be less clowny. Yeah. Really dark subject matter. Halsey struggles with lupus, a T-cell disorder, I think multiple other chronic illnesses, and described this album as something she made in the space between life and death, which is a little to me incongruent with like, here's me in my Bruce Springsteen outfit.

Yeah. It's not, like, it's not funny. It's, there's pieces of it that I, that feel like they make more sense. And then there's pieces of it that feel like they make less sense now that we have everything together. I mean, there's the, there's the one where she, where the inspiration is Aaliyah, where, you know, when that hit the internet, I, that was the one where I was like, oh, God, what is going on here? And is this going to be well executed?

I will say that I think it turned out to be very well executed, maybe not perfect. And there are some things that I'm still trying to piece together. But I found this album to be pretty emotionally wrenching, but also to have some really beautiful music. So to me, I think like you're saying as well, it was a really pleasant surprise. Yeah. Here's my current impression is that she didn't need to overdo the girl. great impersonator thing. This is sort of a concept album.

There's definitely some songs that are either interpolations or, you know, fully taking parts of a Britney Spears song, for example. But it kind of didn't need it. Like, what this really is, is Halsey, who's been a pop star that you sort of have come across in collaboration with the chain smokers and with a whole bunch of other artists. this is her more stripped down. Her last album took a pretty interesting left turn, having been produced by nine-inch nails,

Trent Rezner, and this one now is just totally stripped down. And I almost feel like the concept album idea to me was maybe air cover for her to stylistically go in this more acoustic rock-ish vein, right? songwriter vein? I definitely feel I feel the same

in the sense that I don't think they needed to do this right to make it a concept album to dress it up with all of this stuff that said I will say

I feel like I understand Halsey in general but also specifically what Halsey's life is like these days in a way that's pretty intimate

and pretty compelling through this album I probably would have listened to it if I hadn't seen all the posts. But I think there are a lot of people who would not even have been aware of this album if it weren't for all of that. So do I think that... Well, it does not have radio hits in my view. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think to me, the song, a lot of the songs on this album are downright hard to listen to. And there are a couple that I think are beautifully done, but I will probably never go back to in my life. Yeah. It's like listening to Ronan

or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that's a totally apt comparison, and that's not an apt comparison in a lot of situations. I will say the song Ego to me, which was one of the singles and was the one that she performed at the VMAs. Yeah. I think that's the easiest song to listen to. That's the song that I can imagine putting on the most playlists. I don't think that's the point of this album. Right.

But I guess if I had to pick one where, you know, you can you can slip it into the most context in your life. That's one where I believe the inspiration is supposed to be the cranberries, which I got to say I don't totally get. No, it's more third eye blind for me. Yeah, or like pink. There's a lot of like pink don't let me get me in that song. Okay. And it's definitely hard. It has a little bit more of a hard edge than.

than the cranberries, I think. But, you know, there's a few of those. I don't fully believe the inspiration for each song is contained to the one that she identified, right? Like, there's... Interesting. As we get into it. Like Darwinism, she said, is Bowie, but to me it sounds more radiohead than Bowie. But if I'm made for land and not to see it all, could I crawl and find some kind...

Sure. Sure. And their share in Letter of God in 1974 or whatever. That, she said, is sort of a share-based thing, but it sounds like a Dolly impression, and it's definitely pulling the Stevie Nicks Wildheart YouTube video. Well, and it's also barely a song. Notes at the beginning that mirror exactly what happens

on that Wild Heart demo that Stevie is singing. and they seem to have mirrored the echo of the room. So there's a part of me that wonders if, in some cases, she matched an artist with each song to throw us off the scent in some cases. You know, I wonder if Halsey albums have historically all come with kind of a concept. And she does think in terms of these sort of overarching themes. And I wonder if that worked for some of this and didn't work for other parts of it. I mean, she told a story, I think, in one of the recent sort of fan chat events that she's held about the song, Arsonist.

Where they said that they've remade it in a pretty complete sense towards the end. And it almost didn't make the final cut. but then they did a whole new take and the last take ended up really dramatically changing the song. That's supposed to be a Fiona Apple-inspired track, which I hear a fair bit of. Sure. But if the process of these was inflected with a lot of,

you know, not just that there's a specific vision of replicating a certain artist, certain inspiring artists sound, but arriving at something that felt true to Halsey, maybe things started as one thing, moved away from the original concept, sort of morphed in all of these different ways, so you get kind of the bleeding of the influences.

I will say some of them feel very clear, and like I get what she's talking about. Letter to God, 1983, is lifted right out of Bruce Brinkstein's I'm on fire, for example, right? And panic attack. Titanic attack. Totally. It's absolutely the start of dreams. You can hear the drum fill intro on the little snare.

That is for sure a Fleetwood Mac song. But when I listen to this album as a whole, like to me, the first time I went through it, I was just kind of, I was like blown away in a sense by just the intimacy that she's singing about these incredibly harrowing experiences. And that is what I came away with. It was not. Oh, it's so interesting to hear what Halsey thinks about, you know, about share and what she takes from share. No. No. That was not my experience. That's why I'm weirded out a little bit by so much focus on the concept album because it's not the right prism to look at this. The right prism is the early lyrics and the first song on the album to me, which is called the Only Living Girl in L.A. I wake up every day in some new kind of suffering. I've never known a day of peace.

My special day in some new kind of suffering. I've never known a day of peace. My special talent is feeling everything that everyone feels every day. She's like kind of a chronicler of the human struggle on this album. And the tension between her believing genuinely that this might be the last album that she made is what's fascinating about this, not to your point, not being. in Bowie makeup. Yeah, and I think that's the best song on the album.

You do? Yeah. I think that song is kind of incredible. I mean, I just, I don't know if I could sell out my own funeral. Because I don't know if I could sell out my own funeral. Right. It's a cool line.

That's a, it's a cool line. It's a devastating line. It is a line that ties together. the themes of life with a chronic illness, and also some of the commentary on fame and her career, that's another undercurrent that made me feel like I was getting to know Halsey through this album, not Halsey as dressed up as, in this case, Marilyn Monroe,

which again is one where I was like, okay, I don't want to think about that at all. I just want to think about this is a story that you are telling me about what you've been through and how you feel, and it's 20 times more compelling that way. But also, musically, like, the way that it is basically all verses strung together. And then it keeps building and building in a way that makes the... Ultimately, it feels like the first verse where it's just her and the guitar feel like it's being kind of sampled and reprocessed over and over again. I think I'm special because I cut myself white.

Like, the first thing that struck me about this song is that, you know, she is pouring her heart out in a way that I think is really effective and really compelling. But the second, third listen, I do, like, the music here is cool. They constructed a very cool song. And by the time it gets all, like, I mean, it gets all, like metal at the end. Yeah. It builds into big professional. This is it. This is it for me.

I was one over. It's sort of hard to be like, hey, which song about near death is the one you like best? Very very terrible. No, I like the one. For me, the best song on here, it is actually hard. I mean, I liked Only Living Girl in L.A.

From a lyrical standpoint, I guess musically, it didn't move me as much as something like, I never loved you. Which has a lot of Peter Gabriel in your eyes piano on it. And maybe that's the point. This is sort of her Kate Bush-inspired song. Kate Bush sings on Peter Gabriel's song, Don't Give Up. Don't Give Up.

And there is a lot of piano like this on that song as well. Yeah, I got kind of a Maggie Rogers thing from this song as well. Yeah, no, I thought that one was really good. I also, can I just be honest, lonely as the muse is cool as fuck. I mean, it is... It's a cool song, yeah. Yeah, it's totally the evanescence Amy Lee thing, but with the duplicate whisper vocal and shit, like,

and the driving low bass, I'm super into it. Yeah, and I think it's... One thing that this made me think about, is Halsey a muse... Yes. to whomst? Well, she says that she's been the source of platinum songs. So, who knows? I just was like...

Maddie Healy, by the way. Yeah, well, that's true. Although your brain is proper weird? Sure. I mean, inspiration draws in many parts. I just, I totally am with you. I think this is a really cool song. I don't...

not, I'm not sure if I'm tapped in enough to know who it's about, I did listen to it and I was like, are we giving G.EZ a little bit too much credit here? Maybe. Maybe we are. She's, she's a very interesting run of significant others, hasn't she? Yes. Yes. And I think her most recent partner was at one point making a documentary about her that I believe didn't happen in part because of the health issues. So maybe that's what's happening here. Which is weird because this album is a documentary of her health issues.

Yeah, well, and maybe this is an easier way for that to appear in the world. Right. I just, that was my one. I just couldn't sort of shake that question, but I think it's a cool song. Well, there are some really good songs on here. Do you think there are hits? Is there a biggest hit? I mean, I'm with you that it's probably ego.

Maybe lucky. It will be just because it sort of brings or brings back Britney Spears and who doesn't love it when we bring back Britney Spears? Feels like it's going to be close between those two. I think I'm seeing a lot of buzz about panic attack.

I mean, a lot of buzz. Let's caveat that this is not going to be the tortured poets department, right? Like this is not going to be bagillion quadrillion streams kind of album. But I think that is a song that one, it is on the less

it is it is on the less weird end of the spectrum of some of this. And I think it's, I think that may end up being kind of like a fan favorite hit. I don't think it's going to be a radio hit in the traditional sense. No, it's too close to dreams for me,

for it to be a standalone hit, but I do like it, and I do think it is not a coincidence that it's the song that follows Letter to God in 1974, which I really do think is intended to be impersonating Stevie Nick sitting in that backstage room in that YouTube video,

singing Wildheart. Interesting. Did you get, and so that gave you something? Yeah, it did, just because I love that video so much of Stevie Nick. And those notes, the notes of that song when it was in the demo form are just sort of emblazoned in my ears. So it's an earworm. So as soon as I heard it and you can sort of hear that atmosphere of the room, I was like, wait a minute.

And then to go right into panic attack from there feels like it's an extended Stevie tribute. I am staying on my corner of, and I, there's something that makes this, a challenge of talking about this album is. I don't want to, you know, not appreciate the insights of these moments, which are reflections of times, Halsey, saying, you know, I prayed to God for my survival. And I was in a moment of desperation and I'm reflecting that through this. I maintain that the sort of sporadic interlude interstitial tracks that have become a feature of a lot of. of pop albums tend to not do very much for me. And I tend to come away with the same impression, which is, if you really had something here, you should go 30% further and make it a real full song, or we should maybe not do this. And I will say that I still felt that way, particularly

with this one. Well, you can stay on that corner. I, I, I, I enjoyed it. Okay. Okay. I wasn't thinking about Stevie. So, and I love to be thinking about Stevie. I don't want to be somebody that they want to get rid of. It's like, it's great.

I love it. And I think, I think quietly and intentionally, this is a Stevie tribute. It's not even the, my problem is that they take me out of the album. Yeah. But in context of the, of the great impersonator, it makes more sense. Yeah. but again, that's something that has me, I think what we're both saying

with maybe different moments on this album that made us think this is this is a pretty strong collection of work that might work better if it were just allowed to stand on its own. And to me, when you get to the interlude, that's when I start thinking about all of the other stuff. I start thinking about,

okay, this one's share, this one's clearly Springsteen. And here we are, and we've done this number of songs with these inspirations, and now we're going to, whereas without it, I'm just sort of in this body of work that I think has some really cool stuff in it. Without me. But. Yeah, it's, it's, I do want to just focus on this one point, though. Do you think there are big hits on here?

I mean, this is a woman who has multiple, multi-billion streaming songs. Without me is massive. Yeah. Closer is massive. East side, massive. He used to me on the east side in the city where a sudden do it. Him and I, giant. Do you think there's anything on here that's going to do something like any of those songs?

No. No. No, but I don't think they're trying to do that. I mean, I don't think, you know, Halsey's given interviews talking about if I can't have love, I want power, which is the Nine Inch Nails produced album that that was their last one that came out in 2021. And I believe she's talked about that as her personal, like, as her greatest personal success and greatest professional failure.

And that being something she feels totally comfortable. with. So I get the sense that having a big radio hit, a big streaming hit is just not the point of any of this. She's kind of deconstructing her career in some ways. Like it's like I swear to God, I don't mean to be at all flippant sounding about this. I have a, you know, thank goodness I wouldn't know personally, but I have a feeling that being really sick probably makes you deconstruct a lot of parts of your life. Yeah, exactly. Anything else for you? I mean, it sounds like you're in the same place.

You don't think that there's a big hit. I don't. I just don't think it's on here. I do want to ask you by the end. You're going to remix with, you know. Right. I just think we're talking about something different. Yeah.

Do you think you're going to go back to these songs? I think I will go back to, so I think only living girl in L.A. is the best song. I really like ego. I really like panic attack. I think those are songs that I can see myself going back to. Man, do I think that the end and life of the spider? If I knew it was the end like a child,

because I'm the spider in shadow on the tide. Like pretty vivid and, in a way, spectacular depictions of what this person must feel and experience. I don't know if I will ever listen to them again. Okay. Can you pick me up at 8? My treatment starts today? Could you pick me up at 8?

Because my treatment starts today. Thought I was damaged goods. Yeah. Intensely beautiful, intensely sad. It doesn't totally feel like a Johnny Mitchell song to me, by the way. but it is, the end in particular, feels as much of a journal of that time in her life as anything. You get to know her very well, but I'm with you.

There's some stuff here that I heard, and that's enough. Like, I like I believe in Magic, which is the Linda Ronstat one. It's basically about her being a mother, and her son's voices all over this album. I think I might start trying because I haven't been. But do I need to go back to that one? I'm not sure. That's, I will definitely go back to I never loved you.

I think it's probably because of how much I love the Peter Gabriel stuff and the album So in particular. But I, I'm with you that there's some stuff on here that it's just hard to hear. I'm glad that I heard it. It's interesting art. I don't know how much I'm going to revisit it. That doesn't make it a bad album at all because I think it's actually really good. It might even make it a good album.

Yeah. It might even be part of the thing that makes this what I think it is, which is a good album. It's just, it's just tough. Yeah, I mean, it's what, look, I said her most important collaborator with lupus and T-cell disorders. Oh my gosh, Nathan, Jesus. But, I mean, she's an artist who is fully detached from her body. Like, I believe it. There's something spiritual about her that kind of transcends the physical presence.

Like, you can see the. space between her soul and her body in the art that she's creating. And she's this fascinating combo of fighter and survivor. But it also feels like the physical hand that she's been dealt, when you put it in context with her whole story, she struggled with being bipolar. It's like she's been dealt these health issues that are almost insurmountable. It's like this metaphor for life. Are you going to keep going? And she's writing and singing about those moments. again, knowing that she made a decision as a 17-year-old to actually stop going and to give up and has since been advocate for all sorts of ways to help people who are struggling.

And there's just something about that tension that is really fascinating to me. But it is really part of who she is now. There's, I just, you can see the space between her body and her spirit and it's cool. Yeah. And there are, there's some gallows adjacent humor on this, too. I mean, I don't, I don't know if it totally always works. Like there's the line where there's basically the pun about the blood type. I said I have a universal blood type.

I was a little bit like, what are we doing here, man? But it's, there's something truthful about that. I felt like I was sitting in the chair with her. She said, now I'm the one with the needles in my. legs and you really feel like you're inside the doctor's office and clearly there was a doctor who gave her wrong advice or didn't accept the symptoms and the conditions and she talks about him swirling down the drain like there's a lot and this is the thing somebody in struggle i think she wasn't diagnosed right properly for a really long time right and actually had a female doctor

when she was pregnant or talk to her about her pregnancy experience and who figured out that she had lupus because you treat lupus with immunosuppressants and pregnancy

in certain ways suppresses your immune system so a lot of people with untreated, undiagnosed lupus really like being pregnant because it actually helps them. And this doctor, who I guess was the first woman doctor that she'd had for this specific set of health issues was like, well, how did you feel when you were pregnant? And she was like,

fucking great. I loved being pregnant. And this woman was like, we should see if you have lupus. And that ended up being kind of a breakthrough. But obviously, like, it's not, this is not like an acute, this is a daily struggle. Like, this is a daily part of. And she takes you through it. Like, somebody says, oh, I have lupus. She's like, oh, that sucks. You must feel bad. But it's not just about how she feels, right? You're vividly in the waiting rooms and thinking about how it restructures your fucking dating life. And the very vivid feelings of the blood tests, like you said, and the needles and all those things that you feel like a patient. A young person talking about making their estate plan, right?

Like all the things that most people don't do at that age. And again, I think part of it. Part of the art is in the way that all of that makes the listener feel uncomfortable. In particular, if you haven't gone through that struggle, it's hard to relate to. And it just, she's so vivid in her detail and account of it that it, gosh, I don't want to be a patient. Get me out of this a little bit. Can we talk about the song, Dog Ears? Okay.

Because I think, I totally, everything that you're saying totally resonates with me. I do think there's a sort of funky thing that happened in a couple cases where I became so, I guess, attuned to the severity of the stories that Halsey's telling and how dark and difficult a lot of the subject matter here was. And I may be over ascribed death in a few cases. And apparently in this one, which is a song that I don't know what, I guess I thought it was about death. And then I guess, according to Halsey, this is about, it's about like rough sex. Yeah, that's what was the vibe I got. Yeah, I kind of missed that. I mean, how can you from the chorus?

I've been a really good dog. I know, I know, but I just, you keep, once you go dead dog, I just go to a different place. Oh, that's how you lose Nora. When you talk about a mercy kill for an animal. Yeah, I just, I couldn't. Like, this is my fault, but that's what happened to me. You can always distract Nora with dog stories. I don't want to be a prude here, but I do think that we should keep the dead animals out

of the bedroom, even metaphorically. Yeah, well, I don't want to know. who disagrees with you on that? But yeah, I mean, she's calling herself the dog in the situation. But yeah, this to me sounded like, I mean, her inspiration for this is PJ Harvey, but it to me was more like Liz Fair. It really sounds like a Courtney Love song to me.

Yeah, it has that kind of like, it does have that kind of like spooky sexy thing, which again, I don't know how I sort of missed this, but I just went, this is the dead dog song and now I'm moving on. And that's it. I mean, yeah, I've been such a good girl. Can we go for a ride?

I'm on a real short leash. But I like it tight, you know. And even through all that, you were like, they hurt the dog. It just like, it put me in the wrong headspace. Won't you shoot me in the yard, put you in the wrong head space? That it did.

Well, does that mean you'd cut this? By the way, it's crazy that Greg Kirsten produced this song. It is wild that Greg Christian produced this song. Greg, interesting career. That guy's putting together. He of a del lore? Yeah, sure. No.

I don't cut dog ears. Well, I don't know. I don't need to cut dog ears. I think there's clearly something interesting happening there, even if it had fakes me in some ways that. now seem like what was I thinking. I do look, I want to cut the, I want to cut the letters to God.

All of them? I particularly want to cut 1974. What the fuck? It's like two minutes long. And it is recorded to sound like you're saying, like a backstage snippet. Correct. It is, to me, not additive.

to the experience of the album. Oh, come on. No. So I would cut, I would cut at least that one. But you want to cut all the letters? Like, 1983 is a live Springsteen show.

Where, by the way, at the end, she's like, I don't want to be some, she's like, thank you. I want to be loved. I don't want to be somebody you're trying to get rid of. Thank you. After like the most depressing thing ever,

she's got this like, hilariously upbeat. Thank you. That's the one where I would like, could that have just been a song? You know, like a full song. Well, it is a song. It takes three forms in different styles across this album. With the same refrain, please God, I don't want to be sick. Don't want to get hurt. Please God, I want to be loved.

Right. And I think the treatment in the 1983 version is the most interesting to me. and I would have said just like, what if, what would have happened if that had just been blown out a little bit more? And this doesn't have to be... Well, you would have had a full song that sounded like I'm on fire. Well, but that's going on in a lot of places here. And maybe with that extra attention, there would have been ways to get away from that. I just, it puts me in this kind of like, you're either in on this song or you're out on it place. And it makes me...

Letter to God, 1998 doesn't do very much for me. me. Nor I. Nor I said the fly. But I sort of understand and appreciate the concept of it flowing through the album, which is this like prayer refrain. It takes a whole bunch of different forms. But the core is the same thing.

If you're going to kill me, kill me. This album didn't need a concept. It doesn't need all the bells and whistles. The, the concept is that this is an incredibly vivid and emotional portrait with some very good music of someone who's been through genuine crisis. And I, like, I, these are the things that make me feel like, why, like, why isn't that enough? Why can't we just do that? The other one that I would cut is arsonist. No, really?

It, I'm, it's too weird. It is kind of weird. It's pretty weird. I also, again, like, this is me. clutching on pearl clutching corner, I guess. But the outro, the do you know the father's DNA stays inside the mother for seven years? Like, if I never hear that again in my entire life, I'll be fine. Did you know the father's DNA stays inside the mother for seven years?

But that's her making you uncomfortable. That's a really, like the way that she talks about that, again, I believe her. No, it's, I absolutely believe her too. I personally find it too. It creeps you out or what? It just creeps me out. That is the point. Yeah, but I don't know that I think that that's,

I think there are more artful ways that that's done. Have you ever waited seven years? I was like, oh. Yeah, no, me too. Just thinking about that from like a sexual assault victim standpoint, It's just like how gross it is and how it's just something that doesn't go away both in terms of the emotional and mental damage

but even just the physical disgust of living with that. I mean, it's just, oh. Yes. I think that that is not... It's intense. What I am looking for from this. Well, but that's not... You don't get to decide that, Nora, Prince Iati.

No, well, I listened to it. and therefore you're right. I've heard it. It will stay with me. I just, I mean, if it came, it's not like, if it came within a musical packaging that I was more interested in.

The discomfort is the point. She's trying to put you inside the way that she's feeling and she's being very effective at that. Even if it doesn't become an earworm that you come back to. Yeah, but a lot of this is not becoming an earworm but is more,

is more effective at illuminating something that I don't feel I'm already sort of, look, like, there's a certain amount of the discomfort that she is explaining in this song that I think to a lot of women is more familiar than a telling of disease and feeling on the brink of death. And I think to me, those things felt a little bit more eye-opening, I guess, and not just purely discomfort for discomfort's sake. But I also like, the ick is packaged within music that I'm not interested in here. And like that's, that's mostly where I'm coming from.

Well, the great impersonator with her little bork noises. Yeah. Yeah, that's an interesting. It's so borky. It's really borky. She really, she borked, she borked hard with that one. She'd super borked that thing. and that one, I don't want to cut,

but it had all of the Bjork that I'm not that into and less of the Bjork that I am into. I don't know, I might kind of be into Halsey doing the Bjork that you're not into. Whatever. That's just because it was light. By the end of it, you're ready for the lightness that comes from that song.

Yeah, and also it does unsubes. some level function to tie in the, you know, Ringling Brothers element of the rollout with the album, which I suppose I want to keep it around just for the purpose of that, because there is a world in which, without that, this does feel like, okay, I get that influences were a part of the making of this album, and the rollout definitely got more eyes on this thing that I think is really worth digging into. Without that, I think it would feel even more like, what are we doing here? Like, why is this concept attached to this body of work? I like the answer. I mean, she asked the question, does a story die with its narrator? And she did some stuff on Twitter

about this, just sort of raising that question of like, how do you look at this art? Does it continue? Whose is it? Does it own? Like, she was doing some deep thinking about that. And again, those are interesting questions, but all of it, for me, gets washed away by the intensity of the discomfort. Discomfort is the point. So I am made uncomfortable by the outro in arsonist, and you are made uncomfortable by how borky it is? Yeah, it's, there's just too much bork. It's too borky.

More cowbell, less bork. Yeah. What would you cut? Well, I might have cut hurt feelings. You can't really cut hurt feelings because, lo and behold, this is the issues with her dad's song. So you can't really pull that out, even though she's... Yes, and famously, we can never cut the issues with our dad's song. No, daddy issues always stay.

And she's impersonating herself in 2015 on this one, supposedly. So you can't really yank that one out. I think it's letter to God 1998 for me. I just didn't need it. Please God, oh, you've got to be sick. And I don't totally understand why it was 1998, but O'Lea was the inspiration, I guess. I do think, again, like, of the... Take me straight from Brittany to the Bjork.

Back-to-back, BB. We go, we go Daddy Issues, we go Brittany, we go Bjork, and then we're out. Perfect way to end an album. Yeah. That's the way this. thing could have ended. How do you, where are you on life of the spider? Because I'm the spider in your baths where I'm the shadow on the time.

Well, I'm a massive Tori Amos fan. And this is why I'm asking you this question. Yeah. Like, heigante Tori Amos fan. Is this really a Tori Amos song besides being a song with vocals and piano? No. That was my issue with it. This is where I probably,

I think I tolerated it because she just gives the shout out to Tori, but really it doesn't feel, I mean, Tori Amos would write a song called Life of the Spider, but she would sing it more like joyfully. She would sing the depressing lyrics way more joyfully. I mean, but this is where I'm going to say to you. I don't think it sounds like a Tori Amos song. I don't know.

This is one where the, knowing the inspiration, I think is unhelpful to appreciating the song. Right. This is the one where I want to say to you that I think the discomfort is the point. And I think not singing it joyfully is the point.

Yeah, my only point is the words are classic, Tori. I've got the venom in my teeth. It is a Tori Amos special right there. And it doesn't help that you will treat. mean like I've got the venom But I just think

instead of singing it the way Halsey does Tori would have been like I'm not even going to try to impersonate Tori Amos right now in this podcast but she would have said something We almost got it We almost got there You almost did

I almost did a Tori Amos line there I'll have to think about that for the next time But it just She would have sung it a little bit differently Like almost like Mary Poppins That's what's cool about Tori Amos You'd think if you weren't

If you didn't speak English, you'd be like, is she like singing a Mary Poppin song? But meanwhile, she's saying, I feel like a monster and it doesn't help that you will treat me like I've got the venom in my teeth. Right. Right. Yeah, I mean, I think it helps this. I think it works for the song in this case, that that's not what's happening. But the introduction of the idea of who Halsey is imitating makes it.

probably more complicated than it needs to be. Yeah. I mean, overall, you know, I come away from this a little bit unsure of what, I mean, it's been a theme of our pods lately, hasn't it? The dissolution of genre. I'm not really sure what kind of artist Halsey is right now.

I am not confused about whether or not she's an artist. Yeah. She is an artist. but I just don't, if we had a next album appetizer, I have no fucking idea. I mean, she could do anything is the thing

because, you know, as you said, as you listed out, Halsey has multi-bjillion platinum huge hits. Some of them I think do carry,

you know, you know that it's Halsey, you know that there's, You hear some storytelling, you hear, I mean, even like colors especially came from a Tumblr poem, and there's a lot of storytelling there, obviously, and people kind of know the lore of it. Some of those big songs are just sort of big EDM era smash hits that are relatively impersonal, and those are great songs. For sure. But I think to me, for someone who's had such big presence, it was hard. harder to actually get to know Halsey and especially now given what their last however many

years have been like. To me, this is this is a thing that helps people know who this artist is. And you can go in any direction from there because it's not really about what these, what genre these songs fit into. It's not even necessarily about like what are the musical qualities that tie these things together. It's this is who I am. This is how I feel. This is what I care about. And if someone is interested in that, which I think if someone likes this album, that's probably what's resonating with them, then that person is interested in whatever Palsy is going to do next. Like that's how I feel. And if they said, I want that to be an all, like, let's just take this Evan essence thing and do an entire album like that, sweet, cool, I'm on board.

Is it all going to be, you know, more singer-songwriter, more acoustic, kind of the beginning of Only Girl in L.A., only living girl in L.A. vibes. Cool. I'm in on that. Want to do more of the Fleetwood Mac thing? Cool. In on that. I'd listen to a country album. The Dolly Parton song is cool. Like, I just, it seems, I'm with you,

it's hard to say what the direction is because I just think it's pretty wide open. Well, I just scrolled through a bunch of Tori Amos song titles.

Just to be reminded about how absolutely ridiculous her song titles are. And life of the spider in parentheses draft would fit so perfectly into Tori Amos. It can fit right in between

Mr. Zee. and Cautolite sneeze. And right two songs after that can be donut song and in the springtime of his voodoo. It's so good. If nothing else, she impersonated

of Tori Amos song title. A title, which, you know what? That is an art. God, I love Tori Amos. That is peak, Nathan Hubbard. Just on a podcast, not about Tori Amos. God, I love Tori Amos. So good.

I assume that's what you, like, if you, if you have a nightmare, you wake up in the middle of the night, you just go, God, I love Tori Amos. Thank God. Tori Amos, yes, I probably would. It's true. All right. What is your P. Caulsey? I think it was the lead-up. I mean, it really started to weird people out a little bit, I think.

Yeah. I still can't tell. you made the point earlier. Did it drive intrigue and interest? It must have. But it, or were people just like, they were starting to talk about this album

like it was like a Katie Perry record coming. Like the Katie Perry record that came. Yes. Just to say, it had the same like, oh boy, she's trying really hard. And do we have to believe this Bruce Springsteen impersonation picture thing to get into this music?

And oh, fuck, is this going to be a flop? I mean, that was sort of, the inside baseball chatter leading up to this and then I do think outside it was a little bit

more like just simply what the fuck is going on rather than is this going to be a total flaw. And people started

meming, right? Some of the stuff it was just kind of like what is this? So again, she made people uncomfortable. And also got

people engaged. And I do I feel really torn over whether the whole rollout was a good idea because I think if you could guarantee that people were going to pay attention to this, then I would say that it was detractive because I just don't think that it was necessary. I think the music can stand on its own and what I feel engaged by and interested in and moved by from this album really has very little to do with that stuff. but I do think that there is

noticeably more chatter about this than if I can't have love, I want power. For example. Let's see how the music lands because it is not an easy listen. Yeah, but it's not as... There's enough in there

that's at least it's memorable, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. For sure it is. it's not like disposable, right? It's not just, okay, well, whatever, I listen to this and I'm never going to listen to it again, and it's like it never happened. The things that I'm not going to return to, a couple of them are because they don't land. More often, it's just like, man, I'll never forget that song, but it's not going on a lot of playlists. But I think that's a different thing.

And that probably drives people to pick out the songs that they do find a little bit more. easy to incorporate in your musical life and maybe helps the other ones get more lasting power. I don't know. This is definitely more of a niche thing than a lot of the albums that we talk about, but I do think that it is striking. Okay, guess the Tori Amos song title that is not actually a Tori Amos song title. You ready? Oh my God. Here you go.

I'm going to give you four options. Okay. Number one, space dog. Number two, nachos for us. Number three, yes, Anastasia. And number four, Father Lucifer. Wait, what did you say the first one? I'm going with yes, Anastasia.

That is a Tori Amos song. Damn it. Which one? What is this? As far as I know Nachos for Us is not a Torrey Amos song? I thought that was so weird that it couldn't possibly be the answer. But that's what's so great about Tori Amos. She probably has a song called Nachos for Us.

That would be, yeah, I think spiritually, in the world of this podcast, we're going to say that that as part of Camden. That's ever been done. Maybe that's, maybe in parentheses, is nachos for us. It smells like teen spirit, nachos for us. You know what is a Halsey lyric

that I freaking loved from this record? Tell me. I told him I'm not bitter because I finally found a lover who's better for my liver and now I'll finally recover. I told him I'm not bitter because I finally found a lover

who's better for... I love this idea of a recovering addict who finds somebody and thinking about them as being better for your liver. It's just very, all of the influx and combination of love and body and sickness. And again, that space between her body and soul. It's a line that sounds like it's supposed to, it sounds like it should be metaphoric,

but it's actually very literal. It's literal, exactly. Yeah. It's cool. I'll never get over. I don't know if I could sell out my own funeral. Yeah, I think you're right. I had a sense you might go for that one. It's certainly as good as anything else on this album, lyrically.

What's your grade, Nathan? Well, that's what I wanted to see. I actually want you to go first. I'm really fascinated to see how you graded this. I gave it a B-plus. Yep, that's what I did, too. I gave it a B-plus because it doesn't have the hit, and there are some things around the edges that feel like we're leaning

too far into the concept and away from the substance of this confessional space between life and death. It's really good. I think there are some I think there are some

like truly A moments. Okay. But I agree with you. I felt like I needed to kind of deduct for... You took points off for the interludes? For the interludes, for the... You know what I'm also...

Now that we're in like minute 50 of this podcast, I'll share the other way in which I'm a hater. I don't really need the gurgling baby on the track anymore. Yeah. It's getting overdone. It's not that it's not like I should not come down on Halsey any more harshly. Are you one of those people that hates babies on planes? No, I love...

Well, on planes, hit a mess. You get mad. I love babies. I love babies. I love babies. Babies are so cute. This is like a goddamn insightful record. There is more, like, Halsey is capable of creating things that are going to do more to move me and engage me than gurgle baby voices.

And that is not a novel trick anymore. We're seeing a lot of artists. do this and that's okay. It can be really cute. I do think it's getting a little overdone. Leave your baby at home. You know what? Part of this is about being a mother.

Some of this is about postpartum depression. As you said, some of it was about the medical issues that came from her pregnancy. What I'm saying is like I didn't, I know that. I know that because she told those stories really, really well. So I actually don't need you to, play a baby for me to understand that. Okay.

Well, I think we agree on this one. I'm not bothered by it. I'm just sharing my truth. Yeah. I think we agree on this one. And I think that the most interesting takeaway for me on this is number one, where's Halsey go from here?

Was this something she just had to make to survive? And then she'll get back on the pop train. I think her record label, which she broke up with, capital in a little bit of a controversial way. I think her new label is probably wondering that as well, and they're interested to see where she goes. It's not a bad thing.

You don't know where is this artist going. And was this just sort of a one-off thing, or will we get more music like this on a go-forward basis? That's interesting. And then the second thing is just how it's received. Because this is somebody who, again, is a multi-billion streamer. And will people listen to it and, revisit it, it feels like it's resonating with some folks.

I agree with that. But I just wonder, will they spend a lot of time? I think it's going to make people really like and admire and respect Halsey as an artist. Will it be an album that people sit with and listen to again and again and again? The data will tell us that. And hopefully, so we'll our wonderful listeners, if you're listening to this album, I'm very curious to hear what people's impressions are and how much time you're spending with it and what it makes you think. feel. Nathan, I think that's a pod. Cool. Cool album. Interesting album. Conversation I was not

necessarily anticipating that we would have on this pod at any point this fall as of, you know, a couple months ago. Well, you should go listen to the fair motor maids of Japan. All right. This has been every single album. I'm Nora Preciati. As always, he's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kai and McMullen for producing this episode and we will talk to you next week.