Every Single Album - The Miley Cyrus Interview | Every Single Album: Miley Cyrus

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Nora and Nathan are joined by Miley Cyrus to take a journey through every single one of her albums. ‘Hannah Montana’ (16:50)‘Meet Miley Cyrus’ (26:19)‘Breakout’ (32:12)‘Can't Be Tamed�� (57:36)‘Bangerz’ (1:13:53)‘Miley Cyrus & Her Dead Petz’ (1:32:23)‘Younger Now’ (1:45:18)‘Plastic Hearts’ (1:56:52)‘Endless Summer Vacation’ (2:04:46)‘Something Beautiful’ (2:09:17) Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Video Production: Belle Roman and Ronak Nair Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Prynciotti. As always, I am joined by Nathan Hubbard. However, there's a third extra special guest on this episode that you're about to hear. Because Nathan, why don't you tell the people what we just did? We just had a two-hour conversation with Miley Cyrus. Yes, we did. She brought notes.

She brought notes. She had listened to the podcast. She had gone through the journey. She had feedback. She had jokes. She spilled some tea. She said a lot of things. She was a delight to interview.

She was incredibly honest and thoughtful. And we just had an absolute blast throughout this conversation, which started literally when Miley walked into our studio, sat down and just started chatting. And so we're going to bring you guys into that right now. I think this is the first time I've ever requested to be on a podcast. Usually we're saying yes or no to podcast. but I set this. Did you know this game for me? I got a note from JD that said,

Miley wants to come on. And I assume that was J.D. saying, we want Miley to come on. No, because I don't want anyone talking about every album of mine without me being able to tell you why certain things were the way that they were. And then, you know, I think that all of it's J.D. I'll just answer.

Yeah. J.D. I'm on the podcast talking about everything. every album that I've ever done. Can I call you back? You're on the podcast. Huh? Oh, it was.

It just started at 1235. But Chanel went fast. So we're here. Okay. I was eager. Bye, J.D. So for those listening, if you keep this part, that's my manager, J.D. Who is the best.

He is. Who has only been my manager for my past two albums, which I think they're my best two albums. So there's something to be said about J.D.'s magic. I mean, you know J.D.' He's got a great set of ears. That's how I got here. And more than anything, he actually has a real brain and a real heart. Yes.

Wow. So the ears, I don't even almost need quite as much because I got those. It's him. First of all, his greatest strength is that he just doesn't get in the way. And that's why I've been able to make the last two albums the way that they were envisioned, which some of these, which is why I want to be on the podcast is like some of these feel like, you know, they're, uh,

me playing a game of going, well, I could probably get a lot more of what I want if I do a couple things that they want. Because as long as a record label has a single or two, they really don't care about the rest of the album. And I only learned that really with flowers. Single or two has never been your problem. A flower,

I was like, oh, I could have just, well, JD actually was one that said, you could have made 12 handstands, which is my favorite song on the album. And he's like, because as long as you have flowers, And I didn't totally get that until in the summer vacation, that as long as you always have these, you know, part in the USA, something that, you know, a label or the radio can play with why you make the body of work.

But I think I even, I compromised in places more so than I actually needed to in certain times. So that's where I wanted to talk to you about to go like, okay, that was my bad idea. I have bad ideas. I've had a couple of them. You may have even noticed. But some of them aren't mine. So I'm not, you know, I'm not taking the ones that I'm not. taking the ones that aren't mine anymore. Do you, I mean, we're going to talk about this because I think

you have definitely made your best album. I don't think it's a debate, at least not with us. Thank you. I feel that way. But I think that to understand why it's your best album, you actually have to understand the whole journey that you've been through. And one of the things that I want to make sure we get out of you today is you just told us about sort of feeling like you need to trade off with the label. I've heard you talk a lot about how you understand the business that you're in. But I wonder if in those moments, you understood the power that you actually had. Because there have been moments where you've had crazy flexes.

Right. Dead pets. Seems like a... That's one of my favorite. Diculous fucking flex. Thank you. But that no label really would have understood. No label put it out.

Well, that's the point. That's why I was free. Right. But the idea that you actually, as you went through these albums, felt like you had to horse trade with your label. I did a show at... I always say it wrong. Bemelmans.

There's a joke going around. It's so hard. Because I was calling it Bellamins. I made a joke. of like, oh, you know, as vocalists, we warm up saying funny words, like, you know, tongue twisters. And so Bamelmans is a really good one. Bamelman's bar. But then by the end, I kept saying Bellenmans.

And then it became, and the manager of the hotel was in my elevator this morning and goes, do you actually know what the restaurant is called? I was like, yeah, of course I do. Bellamins. And she's like, no, it's Bamelmans. Anyways, I still don't get it. It's good to put the Carlisle on their place from time to time. But the reason I do those shows is because no one can be mad at free stuff.

Like, you know, if someone gives you a bad Christmas present, whatever. Right. It's free. Who cares? Right. And so for dead pets, I remember just going like, it's free. Like, it's not a problem. Like, the fans, you know, you're getting what you pay for, which is a whole lot of nothing.

It's a whole lot of what I like because the only person that paid for this is me. I bought the little microphone and I had a garage set up and that's where I recorded all my vocals. And there was no, like, producer fees because Wayne Coins making it because he wants to make it. And he's already got all the gear. and, you know... The drugs were the biggest cost item. The drugs were the biggest cost. Yeah.

Which to hide those from my accountant, we called them vintage clothes. And so she would get these checks... That happens on touring all the time. Of thousands of dollars worth of vintage clothes. And every time she saw me, she'd be like, where's that like $15,000 original John Lennon t-shirt that you want? It's like, oh, it's upstairs. Would you like some?

We just really want to protect it. It's really delicate, the fabric. Got to take care of it. So I bought a lot of vintage clothes that year. It's amazing. How are you right now in this moment? Is this week it's out? You've given birth to this thing.

Yeah. Is it a relief? It's a relief. I mean, like you've been doing the fucking work in ways we haven't seen it for a while. I'm really glad I can stop working on it now because it's starting to get. It's not going to get better. It's going to get worse. Sometimes when you work on something for too long, you just make it worse.

Right. And I felt us going in that direction. We had like maybe four last sessions as we were tying this all together. And I have a couple more songs. that weren't quite done in time, so we're doing it as a deluxe. And as we started working on the deluxe songs, we were like, maybe we should revisit track seven, and we're only making it worse. So I'm happy to be rid of it for now in that regard.

But as a child of those last vestiges of the music business, where we counted things and numbers mattered, can you sit there this week and know that you just made your best record and detach yourself a little bit from the quantitative bullshit? Like the critical reviews of this are awesome. Yes. Like, you're getting a whole lot of love and your flowers, if you'll pardon the pun. But is there anxiety this week? Like, are you still watching the scoreboard?

Well, it's a yes and no. And the reason why it's a yes is because this project, I put a lot of pressure on it just by its scale and its size. And because the film component was originally kind of meant to be like an arty little thing that I was making with Panos Cosmodos. but, you know, he made Beyond the Black Rainbow for, like, you know, a million and a half dollars, or I think Mandy was like under $4 million or whatever, but Nicholas Cage's glam isn't near as expensive as mine. So all of a sudden, that's what J.D. was saying. It was like, you don't understand that, like, making a movie doesn't have to be that expensive, but making it with you in the way that you see it with, like, archival Terry McLear and the...

Every hair being in the right place. Every hair being right. It's exactly. Every strand of everything. this like kind of meticulous. And the reason why I wanted to do that was because I do think that we're in this world right now of fast and and a lot. Like I want everything right now, everything is prime. We, if it doesn't have like a two-hour shipping, we're, we're done with that. We'll move on to the next thing that does have the two-hour shipping. And I wanted to be

in this world right now where everything is kind of a fast and a little, you know, low quality in regards to just the way, when you make something fast, it just can't be its highest quality. I'm not shading this table, but a little bit. I have a feeling this. You don't want it to be disposable. We were actually expressly told to not bang on the table, and I like that we've disregarded that.

It's going to crack it in half because it's made out of paper. That's the thing is you can get these things that they look nice, and they will do, but they're not really something that you're going to pass down. You know, like my grandmother's, you know, like, you know, cherry oak amoir that's made it from like, 1890 because it's of quality. So it's like, my grandma's not that old. But it was her grandmas.

I can do some math. Which, by the way, we're going to talk about your math because your seven things math is wrong. Thank you. Thank you. Come on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, my life.

Honestly, we end the podcast now. I'm good. That's it. It's seven things. Like, I counted. Really? No, because you're splitting up like you got it right. You're splitting the lines.

Their ideas? It's a concept of a plan? I wrote this down. You have it right. It's seven fucking things. It's you're saying like the whole You're saying having friends One thing

That's one thing It's one thing It's like your friends They're jerks Like fuck the guy's got jerky friends Did you write all seven of those things Yes I wrote all seven of those things They're all real things

And I did the math Someone's never gone out with a mass Exactly One of many losses I'm gonna take today Your friends They're jerks when you act like them You know it hurts That's one thing

Yes That's not like you act like them And it hurts two things It's one thing. It's because one creates the other. To me, it was you made me laugh, you made me cry. I don't know. That's one.

Right, because it's about the back and forth. The laughing isn't the problem. It's the fact that, like, you're not all bad. You don't ever stay with someone because they're all bad. Right. It's like, you stay with someone because there is this glimmer of, like, you make me laugh. But on the other hand, you make me cry. I don't know what's side to buy.

You're confusing. Emotional roller coaster. That's one thing. Anyways, this conversation's never going to be linear. We're going to go from talking shit about this table to. It's totally fine. I mean, it's over. Talking shit about your math.

Fucking shit about your math. Another loss. My math is terrible. Your math is off. But anyways, your question was about the numbers and do I still focus on it? And it's like for right now in the kind of closing of what I feel like I'm doing, I don't think I will do something again that it has this much pressure at this much scale and the rollout. But it was one final, like, last lap for me. and because after flowers, I kind of had the motivation, you know, to do it because I got the little, you know, I'm sober, but I have addictive qualities.

And so like, you know, I got my flowers, as you so cleverly put. And then I'm like, okay, I would like one last bouquet, if you will. And now I realize that like flowers, you know, it, again, we call it the unicorn. It's like this, you know, once in a lifetime kind of thing. And it's throughout my, like, journey. I've had these other unicorns, but they weren't a unicorn that I created in the way that Flowers was.

So I felt like I had this little new motivation and this new kind of like fire behind me, and I really put it behind this project. But the reason I'm kind of going so hard is because I don't plan on doing that again. Because I'm so... It's enough already? I think it's enough for me doing it this way.

It's not enough of me of the music. It's not enough for me of creating these universes that I invite people into. I'm sure I'll end up doing that again. I'm actually... You seem to be addicted to that. I am. I'll show you on my phone. Another thing that we can find that's really fun is the track list for my next album.

See, you're a maniac on this. Look, I already have all 12 songs. Why do you do this to us? Because I just love it so much. And I even have a playlist, which I do use Spotify, of what... And my fans are going to hack my account of this is my album, like in trackless order of how I want it to feel. and then I've put all my songs... Like a MoD's app.

Like a MoDZAP. Like a MoDZAP. So this is it. I only keep my music on the notes app. Why do you do this? Every time you put out an album, you did this on Younger now, you did this... Yeah, you're like, I'm two songs deep into my next one.

Before we've even heard it. Because it always takes too fucking long. Is it a defense mechanism, though? Because you're worried people aren't going to like it? Everyone takes too long and I hate marketing. It's not where you are as an artist. I get it. I despise marketing.

I'm like, why does it take so fucking long? Like, the day that I shoot the cover, I could have turned that album art. Out in an hour. Just put it out. Just go. Like, when the song was done, something beautiful was done two years ago,

like, I wanted to drop it. Yeah. I wanted to drop it. And when Beyonce was looking for, I'm always trying to like, I need to quit. For some reason, I like think I'm Beyonce's A&R.

And when I wrote something beautiful, I'm like, just do that. Like, I know you're making a country record, but you should make a rock album too. People love when you do that. She probably is. Well, act three.

That's what I heard. And I was going to give her something beautiful. And then I kind of fell in love with it. And then I hoarded it. But I, I'm always kind of like, if I can't get something out fast enough, I'm like, who's in an album cycle so they could throw this on as like track 11 deluxe? So it can just go away from me because it's going to be old. Time moves too fast.

And that's my problem with technology is that it's moving so fast that the old way of doing things can't keep up. So for my thing is not actually that I'm moving so fast or I'm defensive against the project that I'm making and I'm trying to kind of avoid the project by moving on. The next one is just that everyone takes too long. So it's never been a defense mechanism. It's never been sort of a disavowal. It's a part of like probably an attention deficiency disorder of some sort, even though I don't have ADD. I'm pretty focused. I'm more OCD.

Like I'm more, like, this is probably more of an obsession. Yeah. Than like, I'm distracted from what I'm doing. And you're just, you've got into the music all the time. And I've, the reason that I already have these songs is because, which I'm looking at them, the reason I already have these songs is because they were ones that didn't make it on other projects. So like I already have this first song because I wrote it. There was a thing that I'm going, oh, like, it'd be sick if I could do this like PJ Harvey kind of thing. And then I'm like, oh, I already

referenced PJ Harvey on this endless summer vacation song that I never end up doing. And it's not right. That's why I didn't get used. But I don't want to just throw it away. It needs to be revisited. So I have a lot of these already. Seems like technology should work in your favor if you want to be, you want your fans to know where you are as an artist in this moment. Nathan loves tech. I love tech too. But both things are always true at the same time. Dead pets it and just say, fuck it, I'm putting it out right now. I didn't say, fuck it, because I could have gotten like totally sued and dropped from my label.

So I had to wait a little bit longer than I would have. Otherwise, I would have been putting them out at 4 o'clock in the p.m. probably because I was still awake. I was going to say a.m. But that was like we were just getting started. I would have been putting them out every day. Right. And it was really good when I invited my entire record label managers and agents to sit in my garage

and listen to my 22 or 23 track. album and then at the end asked them what their favorites were and they all looked like they were going to vomit. Well, the answer is lighter. That's one of my favorites. That's John Mayer's favorite. And that meant a lot to me because I really, I'm like, listen, he wrote me this beautiful letter about that song lighter, which I originally had written for Ariana Grande.

Right. I really truly think that I'm like, Sia or something. But I'm trying to be like Sia because she sits at home with her wig on, writing songs for everybody else. You can't shake the wig, she's like the most top listen to artists, and she's always writing all these big songs for everybody else. And every time I call her,

she's just watching TV. And she can go to a restaurant and nobody cares. It would be interesting for you to have another era that was wig-centric. I would love to. The reason I don't really wear wigs is because I'm not good at doing something half-committed, and there's something about a wig that's like, she's not half-committed because she's fully committed to using it the way that she's using it.

But usually when someone's like, oh, I'm feeling crazy today. I want to have some pink hair. I'm going to wear a pink wig. That would never work for me. I would have to dye my hair pink. Sure. Because my whole thing is about like going all the way. That's my thing.

The irony of you starting in a character who wore a wig. But that again, that was conceptual. But that was the craziest part of your New York Times thing. It didn't even make the print article. But like in real time with her, you had this epiphany that you kind of live your life a little bit like Hannah Montana. Yeah, for sure. At home, you're just normal and you don't even look in a mirror. And then you're out and you're on.

Yeah. So I guess we're going to, I want to ask you about the Hannah Montana stuff. I mean, we have a million questions about it. But when you think back on that, and we've even today talked about how you have constantly been pushing against these constraints. And you've been famous since you came out of the womb. But in that case, there was, you were sort of working for a company. And I wonder right now, do you think that that experience of being on that show, did it shape you? Or was it something that you used to go after the ambition that it feels like you've had since you were a kid. Everything is true about that. It's both. It's like none of it can be black or white. You know, it's, of course it shaped me because it was literally my most primal developmental, impactful time in my just like human development. So it had to.

And then, you know, I also experience, like, this is just a totally stupid sidebar. But, you know, one of my friends, like little sister had a play the other day and she's my age that I was when I was Hannah, and they were so impressed. They thought she did such a good job. She was okay. I was touring the fucking world. I was like, look, they were like, come on, you're being so mean. She's only 11.

She did pretty good. I was like, she forgot our lines. And like, she stuttered. What do you think they did to me? And they were like, she's 11 years old. You're being an asshole. I was like, I was 11 years old. I wasn't stuttering through my lines.

I wasn't half assing. No one would have ever come to see me on a world tour and be like, she was so good for 11 years old. It was like, no, they were comparing me to like Lady Gaga, who was like 30. I think, I don't know how old she is, but she was like an adult. Yeah. So my vibe was like, yes, it shaped me. And then it also taught me to be like a pretty, I'm a pretty like intense, you know, I only would judge someone as hard as I judge myself.

And I think I only judge myself as hard as I've really been judged throughout my life. But that is hard as hell. Yeah, way too hard. So now that's where I'm saying I'm after this album. I have to put a little bit of a close on some of that and probably dig in. Why not this week? Because I'm just so busy. She's got to unravel my psyche.

She's got to sit with us and being on this table. I cannot unravel my childhood traumas this week. No EMDR this week. No. I have Tribeca. I've got to go to this like Chanel brunch. Like I don't need someone at the Chanel brunch being like, how are you? And I'm like traumatized.

Yeah. Which is probably true. I don't know. You could. I could. It might be kind of a move. I don't need to. I don't think Kristen Stewart. I mean, she'd probably be like, oh my God, me too.

Yeah, you could kind of queen out a little bit. It might be interesting. I don't need to do all that. But at some point, I do need to go into probably some of that, yeah. So if we can spend a little bit of time with Dear Hannah. Let's do it. When we listen to those songs, and it's funny because I was right in the age, like I was watching, it was part of my after school routine.

And there are songs like Nobody's Perfect, where it's just so in my brain that every note and every touch is as it should be. Because it's nostalgic and it's perfect. And then Nathan's listening and going, What's the problem? I bet she wanted to, I bet she was going to scream every time she had to say, oh, yeah, and that's right, and all of those little touches. Oh, totally.

Well, at that time... Did they feed you that stuff? No, I'm like, you know, I am... I am Hannah in some way. Like, the identity that, like, truly, like, the identity behind her, she was not really something that was made on paper. Because when I got it, because like you said at the beginning of this, like I've been around fame and on stage since literally my dad would call it escaping the nanny

where he would leave me on the tour bus and all of a sudden he would look behind him and I would be out there with the microphone singing like songs from Love Boat or something. Pissing off the guitar tech. Totally crazy. And so there was things about Hannah that I was just like, that's not right. And then the other fact was the people that were writing Hannah Montana were like old guys. And I would be like, no teenager wants to hear a song like that. Right.

And so I would add my own thing. And, like, I actually was down with, like, woo, because it's very Shania Twain. Totally. All those little, like, ad libs were my version of Shania Twain. Really? Because she's always like, let's go, girls. That's right. Right.

Put on your boots. Right. And so it's actually like, and like all the, like, who, that kind of stuff. Well, now I know it's Angeline, but it's Shania Twain. And so I was kind of doing my, like, Shania, Faith Hill, those girls. girls were very into ad-libs. Pop-country crossover when I was growing up was all about a sexy ad-lib. But it just sounded a little less sexy because I was 10. Right. The fact that you were Hannah, was that part of what made it so hard to sort of figure out

how to distance yourself or find the separation? Because in some ways, it's like, okay, she wants to go be her own artist. She's not as much part of Disney anymore. But it was you. Yeah. You had to separate yourself from yourself. It's impossible. Well, I just remember, like, probably, I guess I was, it was before I had a license. And I started doing things that Hannah wouldn't be doing, because it's like a Barbie, you know, she's just like, she's kind of sexless in that way. And I started, you know, living, we shall call it. And I remember thinking, this is going to be very awkward to now wear tutus and Doc Martins and, like, go like, yeah. And even the directors and, like, photographers that I started working with as Miley, they kept.

up saying, like, how are you? I remember one of the directors was like, it's like, now the lion's been let out of the cage, and it's like seen where it's come from. And you're going to have a really hard time walking yourself back into the zoo. That's why there has to be wranglers. Allegory of the cave. And so there I go. Like, you know, you see the lion that it's not walking itself. It's like on a chained collar and it's being dragged or prodded into the thing. And you're going to have to do that. And I remember just kind of going like, now I feel like I'm a little bit of a fraud because these like kids are looking at me as this kind of like sexless thing. And now I know what all this is. And it feels a little bit sillier putting the wig on now.

Yeah. But it wasn't until like I was probably 15 or 16 and then there was still more seasons of that. And that's when I started pushing more. But what was interesting is as I started to push Hannah forward, they actually started to kind of try to reel her in because I think. It's just scary for them. Yeah, it was scary for them. But you, there's two. pushbacks. One is I'm growing up as a young woman and I'm having life experiences that Hannah maybe wasn't ready for and yours were probably advanced because you're famous. I'm exposed to everything. You got a bunch of people around. But the other is creatively. And it sounds like you walked in studios where you had a bunch of old guys who'd written songs for you where you made some edits.

And so in that moment, we saw sort of publicly you slowly like blinking twice and punching out of the constraints of the Disney like not wanting you to grow up as a human. But music, but musically, how did you start to put your palm print on some of these songs? I mean, they still were making you sing with your dad. Right. Record true friend. Totally. So I think for that, it's like I wouldn't have even known, and I don't think I probably

would have gotten a credit. But, you know, because I think that obviously there was this line between Miley and Hanna, and they never really wanted Miley to eclipse Hannah, because that's another thing on my notes is it's like, you know, the more like, like, the Miley entity became larger, the more that it was going to eclipse the thing. And that was going to pop a bubble in the entire synopsis of the whole thing. And so I didn't know to like ask for songwriting credit because I didn't even know. Because I'm like, well, it's going to say Hannah Montana and I'm Hannah Montana.

So that's enough credit for me. But now I'm like, I should have really had more credit in there because I was shaping that whole identity of the thing. And like a lot of the songs were written off experiences that I was having. And then there were songs like True Friends that were more just about the episode. So some of the songs that are not like, you know, I think you said some of the best text in lyrical history or something on one of your episodes. It is not the best text in lyrical history. I learned from you is not the song I would have put you and your dad on. It's not the song either, but it was episodic.

Yeah. So some of these albums are hard to dissect without knowing the synopsis of the episode. Right. So that's why certain things like Blue Jeans is like about this. like, I think Hannah, like, my fans are going to go, that's not what the episode's about. I don't know. They know what it's about.

It's about fucking Blue Jeans. I don't know. Right. So, anyways, also is a Bob. Yeah, that's a Bob. Blue jeans holds up. And it's like a cool beat and whatever. It's kind of like minimal and yeah.

Well, but Meet Miley Cyrus is the first ostensible. Yeah. Miley Cyrus album. And it is punk as fuck as far as I'm concerned. Thank you. I've heard that quote. I like that quote from you. It is.

And I think there's a through line from that straight to plastic hearts and the rock and roll cover. Like, I watched you walk on stage and do at the Chris Cornell tribute. And when they announced you, I was like, what? What's happening? And three minutes later, I was, my jaw was open. But it makes sense if you listen to Meet Miley Cyrus. And you actually got writing credits on that. Yeah, that one was me. And I actually started that because it was actually, it was like the first breakup I had ever had. And I was distraught. And my mom was like. Common theme through some of you writing. It happened. It happened. That was a shot. And my mom actually was like, you've got to put this somewhere because, you know.

There's like rage on that album. It's rage. Yeah. And you got to put this somewhere. And there was not really many producers that were going to want to work with like me at the time because it was Disney and Disney was different. Disney didn't have this thing. And so it was Matthew Wilder who did that. And I went to his house and this is just a totally random serendipitous thing. That album, one of the first songs I did on it, I think is G&O.

It's on that album. and that was about the breakup. And that was one of the first songs I did. You know, and I loved Gwen Stefani. That was like totally Gwen Stefani era and like Aver Levine and all the punk girls and like kind of schoolgirl core. It's kind of what's on the album art. Yeah. Because you have that ping.

I brought pictures of her wearing converse and like no doubt days and that kind of thing. But actually the house, the studio that he recorded that out was my house that I lived in that burned down in Malibu. that is a complete serendipitous thing. So I completely forgot. But it wasn't your house. It was not my house. It was his house. And I recorded the album there.

You bought that house. And I actually didn't. So I, when me and my ex broke up, me and Liam, which I, you know, totally cool to talk about too, he and I, when we broke up the first time, he bought that house and had no idea. Oh, my gosh. And so then me and him as we were going to get back together, which was at the end of, you know, I know he loved me because he was with me during dead pets and had to deal with me painting his entire house. rainbow and gluing dicks to the wall of his really nice house, which I still know to this day.

I'm like, he must have really loved me to allow me to do that. It's your white whale. I get it. You know? So I showed up and I'm like, give me your dress, whatever. I showed up to the house and I was, like you couldn't have written it. You made East Northumberland High in this house. Hello.

And he turned that studio into a surf garage. Like all his boards were in there. I was like, you have no idea. This was like. History was me here. You just destroyed the Met. Like this was, this was the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I would have never had to go to Ohio again.

We could have just crank this into that. And, yeah, so I made that in what was now the Cirque Garage, which is now no longer exists. Right here is like Hunger Strike, like the East North Island. That's like a clash song. That's a real school. Were those influences on you at that moment in time? You're such a musical mud. I just can't tell at 13, 14, 15.

No, at that time, my dad, you know, I came from Nashville, which we had a jukebox, which all those records were on vinyl, like at my, in my dad's, uh, like, you know, what do they call it? Like a man cave. It was where his studio was, whatever. So he was always spinning those records anyway. So whether I knew to walk in and say like, hey, Matthew Wilder, I like that, like, Boys Don't Cry song.

You know, which I did love that song, but I wouldn't know to ask for it. Asmosis, it had come in through you. I didn't know. And so I would just say, okay, you know, I know that it wasn't like, I don't want to be Hannah. I was just like, I know that's not really what I want to listen to. And I had converse, you know, at the time, very, like, early 2000s, you wrote like all your feelings on your, on your comments.

Converse and Sharpie. So, like, I had all my little lyrics that I wanted to say or whatever. And that was like... You're taking off your shoe going, I got to remember what I read down here today. East Northumberland High. My Converse was the notes app of... Yeah, exactly. And that was a distinctly different creative process than the Hannah stuff for you? Yeah. I mean, I was really going there and writing the songs and producing them with him.

And they just buried it on the back of Hannah Montana, too. Well, yeah, so I think it was, I think it was actually smart because I think it was showing the idea behind it was the idea behind it was the... the merging of like someone seeing that behind Hannah, which like, you know, it is, I am behind it, but I truly was. And so at that point, she really was. It's like, you know, I love RuPaul, but I like RuPaul and drag better. I don't really want to meet like, I mean, I love Ru, but I love like RuPaul. I love the hair.

I love the wig. I love the whole thing. Do you love Catitude? That's crazy. I can't wait talk about that one. I mean too. So, which I do have tattooed on my arm. You have catatitude tattooed on your arm?

Yeah, so it's Andrew Wyatt. It says only like, yeah, it's kind of crazy. It's a little song. But anyways, it was kind of like the kids were like, Hannah was that Rupal. I know. He's not going to get over that. It was like the Rupal thing. So it was like, I think they were like, we like Miley, but we like the wig a little bit more.

And then they started to like me a lot because they knew that I was their thing that their parents weren't going to like. And everyone likes what their parents don't like. Exactly. Well, and it felt like you were sort of, you know, it was like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. Yeah, a catatitude. You know, Hannah was never a caterpillar. but Miley sort of emerged and all of a sudden whole new thing. Yeah.

Is that how much of that music is just like ingrained in you forever? I always mix up and you kind of do it too, by the way. I'm sure. I mix up Meet Miley Cyrus and Breakout. And you had a question that you were going to ask me. You said it wouldn't be your only one. But your question would be, do I sometimes think breakout is more of the introduction to Miley than Meet Miley Cyrus? It was on your Hanna and Miley episode or on your breakout episodes.

One on your episodes. And I'm like, I think I do mix up breakout because of the concept of it is like, I maybe, I like the title, but it was like, Meet Miley Cyrus and Breakout is kind of like the same sentiment. They're kind of saying the same thing. And so I guess Meet Miley was like more of a soft introduction and breakout is more like, I'm ready to shed because I don't think Meet Miley Cyrus was ready to shed all the way because I still use Hannah's Mercedes-Degger. So I'm like, if I go on a Meet Miley Cyrus tour, I'm going to be playing a couple hundred people. Right. What am I going on an at a tour? I don't think that would have been remotely true, but I get how you would have, no. No. No. I would see you a ticket master right after you broke.

Isn't there a ticket master law named after me? Do you know about that? Yes. You just, like I came in right after you had melted the system down. Yeah, melted the system and they had to make a ticket master by the law. Yeah. I mean, even today, they're trying to solve the scalping issue because of what happened with you. All the moms stood up and were like in the middle of Topeka, I can't afford these tickets and they're in the secondary market.

What the hell is going on? Right. You started that. That's your own fault. My B. Yeah. And it's been perfect ever since. No, no. Nothing is broken.

No, no. But like, you said you hated marketing, but so much of this is thoughtful about how you separate these two things. I think I have the creative part. I have the seed of what would be considered marketing, which I don't think of it as marketing. I just think it of it as like, oh, here's what I'm trying to communicate with this thing that I'm doing. And then someone else makes it take two years. Because they're like, we got to print it for the side of the bus. I'm like, I feel like I could have printed it for the side of the fucking bus.

Way quicker than you printed it for the side of the bus. How long does it take to put a damn picture of me in a mini, like a schoolgirl skirt on the side of a hotel in Shanghai? It can't take that long. Let's like, let's keep it moving. Get the billboard. My whole life is hurry. But like as you start with breakout, as you start with Can't Be Tamed, is part of your thinking, like, in the forefront, I got to do something that separates me from Miley?

I didn't even think about it so much because I, just was separate. And there weren't men in suits being like, well, there's always always a way of them. But my mom was really good at keeping them very far away from me. She was kind of like the, honestly, she has to take so much credit for this

because she really was the one that was working as a buffer so I could stay creative. She took a lot of bullets. Yeah, she did. Yeah. She almost punched someone at Hollywood Records. She actually, my lawyer had to like grab her by the back of the jeans to grab her from across the table

because they said the phones don't light up for Miley. the way that they light up for other artists at that time. And they were also mentioning Hannah Montana at that. The phones don't light up for Miley the way that the phones light up for this. Oh, you do not say that to someone's mother. And then my mom literally started going across the table, lunged at them and whatever. And then she was like, wait until we put her in a hairnet with some pink lipstick dancing at a club in a fucking mansion. Then how well Hannah like that?

And then we did, and then we did Who Owns My Heart and she's always like, that was it. She's like, I got her real jewelry. Hannah's was always costume. These were emeralds and diamonds and all kinds of things that Hannah can have. And it did kind of work. I got my own stylus. At one point, Miley and Hannah had the same stylist, which I think was a major problem. Sure.

You know? Because that's like, I don't know. How are you not schizophrenic? Like, trying to think this way 24-7. Like, oh, Hannah had this and Miley had this. It would be like, you know, like Rihanna and Beyonce having this style. They can't have the same stylist because there's like a Beyonce and she does what she does. It's you.

But even Beyonce, I think, her stylist, when she left Destiny's Child, they changed how she dressed. To be like, I'm not Destiny's Child. Like, I'm not doing a gold foil. Yeah. Yeah. Because Beyonce is richer than that. Yeah. She proved it.

Yeah. And there was a whole thing with the crazy and love music video where she was wearing those red heels and that little, the little Daisy Dukes, but then she also had all of this, like, custom Versage. Yeah. And that was like, I'm Beyonce now. I'm Beyonce. I have custom Versacee. Yeah. So it was very funny.

One time the Hannah stylist had pulled all gold clothes for Hannah and I had pulled all black because that was like I was like punk. You were punk. And she said, she was like, all you see is this black. All I see is gold and pulled all this like heinous gold shit. And I was thinking this is going to work for me because this is what Hannah is. Hannah is kind of this like shiny toy and you know it's very, you know, it's very, you know, It felt like it didn't feel like skin. It didn't feel like something that suited me.

But actually, like, the less that it made sense for me, the more that Miley could be, like, defined and definite. And so it was actually better for me. The more that Hannah felt wrong, the more that Miley felt right. And I feel like that's what the fans are really, I don't have a personality disorder. No, I know you don't. But one of the things that you do have in this moment is such clear comfort in your own skin. Like you have there's a I want to as we go forward through some of these albums there's a moment in which you start adulting and and I think on purpose because you've done a whole bunch of work about a whole bunch of things but I wonder in this moment did having to play these two parts like keep you from figuring out who you were because you were trying to be multiple people at once?

It's such a muddy and hard time to remember in my life because there just was so much going on and I even remember one time a very specific time. I was going up the stairs and my dad's a pretty chill country guy. He's not too worried about too many things that especially because he's worrying about him. So I'm walking up the stairs and I just remember him being so worried because I'd just come off tour and I was so tired. And I was just so tiny because I was literally 12, but I was just, you know, like at 12 if you eat a sandwich, it's just like, nothing sticks. And I'm doing three shows a day and I'm whatever. And it was the one time that I saw him go, you're not going to. going to, like, remember any of this because you're just doing so much, so fast. And I'm all like,

shut up, dad. I'm packing for Germany. I got to go. They don't know who Miley is in Europe yet. Literally, I think that's what I actually said. And I was like stomping up the stairs to pack my suitcase or whatever. And, you know, it's a hard time for me to remember all this, like, clarity as much as it seems like I have it, just because it was so much going on. It's at such a time that it just became kind of a blur. Do you market as trauma? I don't market it as trauma only because my real life, there's been so much more traumatic things that have happened that are like real. But I think somewhere I am traumatized because like when I was on the Hanna tour, I didn't know that I had tachycardia until I was in front of like 100,000 people and my heart started going bananas.

And everyone was like, you just have low blood sugar. Here's a cracker. And I was like, no, I'm telling you my heart is going at these different rhythms and speeds and I can't control it and something's wrong. And so then I got rushed to the pediatrician because I'm a child. and they were like, you're going to have to wear all these heart monitors why you perform because, like, and then so I ended up, I had two things. I had a heart murmur. I had a leaky valve and I had tachycardi all at the same time, which I had no idea I had until.

And those moments were traumatizing only because, well, duh, for the reperstery that I felt like having a heart attack. Children on stage in front of 100,000 people and have their hearts respond either. Yeah, having it like, pop stars. And they were like, you're nervous. I was like, I don't think these are nerves because it's going, and then stopping for a really long time. And so then I had to wear these little monitors and someone was actually watching me from the pediatric hospital as I was doing my concert to watch my heart in certain things. And they were like, oh, no, you're just leaking blood. You probably had this your entire life and you never know because you were never in a situation like this where it was already going to send my heart into obviously palpitation.

But you wanted this? This wasn't you feeling like you were being exploited? No, that I wanted. And I was still like, you know, silly where I'm like, I can't wear those. Like it's not going to go well with my, you know, changing. male halter top that Hannah's wearing and they're like, girl, you gotta wear the thing. But someone that young, you can't totally know. You can't, like, somebody else has to be the person to say you need to stop.

I didn't know what exploited meant. I didn't know. And then my mom was always just like, you know, she definitely, you know, my mom's a momager because she's a momager, but she wasn't like, get out there. She was like, this is what she wants to do. And like, this is a lot better than I feel like what a lot of teenagers want to be, you know, doing or their loss or she kind of always knew that it was like, Hooters or

Like I think my parents Always thought I was going to work at Hooters I actually know for fact I thought I was going to work at Why? Because of the way that I acted as a small child Like I was fucking out of it And like

If you look at it even still Like the Miley thing was like I want to be put in a cage And I want to break out I want to be you know So I was like I think my mom just thought She was like saving me from like

Your problems with authority in general? Yeah and just like The you know like I can say this, but like I just always had like a very, like a very like sexual instinct. Like even as like a kid. Like I was always just trying to get naked in Cracker. Literally I was trying to get naked at Cracker Barrel. And that's when my mom stopped making me like going to church.

Yeah. Mom's like, we're not going to church anymore because we always follow church with Cracker Barrel and you always get naked because something in the sermon sets you off. And so she knew this. So I think this is like not a joke. This isn't me deflecting or anything. This was, like, dead-ass series. I think my mom was like, I have two options, and neither of one of them are very good, but one of them, she'll make a lot more money. And, you know, it'll be, you'll have more boundaries.

I actually would have more boundaries by being famous because everything that you do is, like, speculated. There's structure, at least. There's structure to it. And she knew you had a lot to give and that a constructive outlet was out. A constructive outfit was always really good. I didn't like constructive criticism so much, even as a kid. Like, I hated when they graded my homework. because I was just kind of like,

this is the way that I see the alphabet, okay? And like, who told you that math is right? Like, I'm like, you are living in a world that you're just, you're just answering to what everyone else, which I still feel that way. Yes. Like, putting me in a setting of eight hours of direct focus, as you're saying, we're only like 40 minutes in.

I know. Me having eight hours of this was not a good idea. Well, you're one of two people at this table who figured out how to count to seven. Yeah. Exactly. If I wanted to get you to do something, I'd ask you to do the opposite. Yeah, that's exactly it.

And now it's about, now I have a lot of structure in my life because I'm an extremist. And so now I've gone the other way where, like, I have a lot of boundaries and I've learned that I can actually have more fun within my boundaries. Because I think what my mom's original intention was. Right. And then I just took it, you know, to an extreme, per usual. Sure. All of a sudden, we have the billboard on the hotel. Oh, hell, yeah.

I'm like, all right, mom, well, if we're going to do this, let's do it. Let's put me 22 stories high on the side of a hotel and really go for it. Was there a period where you sort of felt like you'd left the Hannah stuff behind and it wasn't something you wanted to revisit it as much and did that change? I'm thinking about you're at Chateau Marmont and everybody's like basically insisting that you do the climb. Right. And everybody loves it. Like has there been a journey with what that?

stuff means to you? I still love it because I went through a phase where I loved it less. Like I think probably in dead pets, I like loved it less because I'm going, well, I'm trying to do this thing. And like, you're acting like, this is a new idea. And Wayne Coyne, I've loved the Flaming Lips since I was in sixth grade, mostly because, like, most little sisters, I liked it because my brothers liked it. And, like, if you didn't like Pokemon and the Flaming Lips, you were like a big L in my house with my brother. So, like, I just grew up listening to that. And so I definitely care. you know, I think at that time that would have been the only time that I felt.

But that's also because I felt like everybody's made their money. Like, I'm good, they're good. Like, the business of this is good. Like, I can have a season where I do something for me. And that was a time where there was no conversations. I mean, I knew that there was never going to be,

you know, the Deadpats album wasn't going to be my payday by any chance. So I was just like, it's my payday, to be clear. I still feel like, They just, they, whatever, anyone, couldn't really see exactly what I was doing because now it's one of the most beloved albums, like, of my career for my fans. And they really love it because they felt like they were really a part of it because I was, you know, so active on involving them, like on my social media. Just the way that I was, you know, at the shows, it was just at small clubs. It was them and me.

But that was the only time that I was really kind of like over Hannah. Otherwise, I was kind of into it. And it's come back around. It seems like you're really totally into it. I'm very into it. I love the climb. Yeah, I do. You've talked a lot through this cycle about your voice,

and so I don't want to rehash a lot of that other than you, like, shared some things that a lot of people, probably just get them to stop asking you when you're going to tour. Right, that was it. To tell them that you've got this thing that you've been dealing with. Nathan's saying this so that he can gear up to ask you when you're going to tour. No, no, I'm not. That's not for at least 40 minutes.

But you've got this range, probably like a C-sharp to C-sharp. You got like three octaves in that voice, right? You actually, your highest recorded note, I think, is on Wake Up America. Oh, shit. Which is like a C-sharp 6. That does not exist anymore. Well, that's what I was going to ask. Because as you transition, I mean, one of the things we loved about this journey, we follow a lot of artists.

And over nine albums, their voice changes a huge amount, right? Both in terms of timber and terms of tenor. Especially when you start so young. Accent, so and so forth. But one of the things that's consistent when you start on that Hannah stuff to even something beautiful is This is Miley Cyrus. I think that's probably why you've also been afraid to maybe go get the surgery because you don't want to change what it is about your voice. Yeah.

And I did one before. I lose my voice. Easy. But I did one before where my doctor who did it didn't really understand exactly why I was even having the surgery because I wouldn't really let him do anything. But what I had going on was I know exactly what happened. I was doing Black Dog in Vegas, which is like the driest environment of all time. I mean, your skin will rip if you like kind of stretch your arms too much in Vegas. I guess. And there was like two gear techs that were in the front row. And I could tell that they were like,

Miley's going to do black dog kind of eye roll. Right. And so I went for a Hey, Hey, Mama. Hey, hey mama said the way you move, I'm a make you sweat. I'm going to make you. And I just felt it go. I felt it. And I knew that there was blood in my cords. So I never would have actually checked my voice for what it, you know, anatomically was like looking like or doing. Because I had had a. it's scoped, but it didn't quite look like that. But it's always been, you know, my doctors that I've used have always been really cool where they're like, okay, your knees are probably in better shape than LeBron James, but he's using them. You know, like it's, it's like I'm an athlete in the way that I'm using this thing. So, of course, it's like a shoe that you've worn

versus not. But I felt that I had the blood in my cords. And then when I went to go check that out, they saw the Rankies edema, which it's kind of like Bellamins. I never really say it right. Rankies edema. Yeah. I'm not even trying to say. say. We trust you. Yeah. There's an in. I always skip it and kind of say like Reiki. Reiki's edema. Reiki's edema. Yeah. And so that's what I got and it's something that literally translates to abuse of the vocal cords. And so of course there was some abuse of the vocal chords in my R&R time, but that isn't how, and this is an excuse, trust me, I tell you,

this is this voice has always sounded this way. It's just those extracurriculars definitely aren't helping. Yeah. But neither is touring 90 shows with no days off. Neither is doing extensive of interviews and music videos while you're on that tour. Last night at the Carlisle. Yeah, none of that is, none of that's helpful. Can you still hit the low B? Like, we can't stop as your lowest recorded note. I can hit a new.

I can talk way down. So it's brought your range down. Yeah, I can talk like this. I do this with boys. This is like a first date trick that I do, which is like probably turned off so many people. I'm always like, so what's your lowest note? And then it's not that hot.

Yeah. Does that make you sing with fear today? Or does it feel like with a dive? diagnosis, you know how to control it and you can manage it. I know how to manage it now, but I just won't be careless about it. You know, it's like there's just not enough zeros at the end of a paycheck that could ever get me to go out and do a bunch of blood in the cords again. A bunch of blood in the cords. And no one else has to deal with the four weeks of silence and all, you know, because once you get the surgery, you're mute for four weeks. Because even if you

walk up the stairs and you get your blood pressure up, there's a chance of hemorrhage, which would be a whole other mess. So I'm kind of leaving it alone, trusting that with enough breast and recovery. Yeah, It's like you got to tune up the strings or, you know, but no one can help me. And sometimes when these guys like come in, you know, and they're like the biggest session players ever and they get out there like, you know, trombone and they get out their big bass and they get out their drum kit or whatever. And I'm like, do you know the vocal cords of the size of the end of your thumbnails? That's how tiny they are. It's like if you cut your thumb nails, that's all tiny they are. And I'm like, cool, bro.

You're upright bass on sick. I'm playing two fucking hangnails right now. And you can't tune me. a huge polyp on it. It's right. And it's you. It's the size of a little slipper of a fingernail and it's you. It's your body.

It's it. And so I'm doing it. And so like I'm always really impressed by these guys. But that's why I like to kind of have like a jam session. I like to go like kind of toe to toe because I'm like, look, there's a lot of work in here. And I get it. And there's a lot of work in here. But nothing is quite as, I mean, VIP as the vote.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, because if you break your base, you can still call your mom that night and have a conversation. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. You can get another one. Can't get another one. So that's my thing.

I got to protect it, you know. Other than just avoiding overuse, is there anything that's in your routine that's part of protecting it? All kinds of silly stuff. Two-hour podcasts? That's really good for it. It's really good for my show that I have tomorrow. There's all kinds of things that I do. I've learned, actually, one thing that helped me a lot is I kind of go into the past and I try to talk like the old me.

Like, I'll listen to interviews of myself. Because I used to be very nasally in the face. And I think that's why my polyp didn't bother me is because when I had more of an accent, like country people, like my mom, she talks like a little bit more up in her face. And she always talks like up here. And so now I'm not, listen to how much brighter my throat is all of a sudden because it's up here. But if I'm talking like this, this is me talking my throat, this is how I talk. But if I turn up my accent a little bit and I go up here, then it's a lot safer and it's in my nose.

So sometimes before, like, a day before a show or something, I might try to not talk like this. And I might try to go and talk to people like this, which is really. really annoying, but I also am like, guys, I'm doing three songs for free at the damn Chateau-Mermont. If we crack, we crack. They didn't pay for this, you know, so it's fine. I'm not too protective, and I definitely don't do too many of the silly, like, la-ga, la-a-la, because I just think it removes too much of the personality out of your voice. But I thought that was a good cue.

Yeah. Blowing lots of bubbles. That's really good for your throat. Oh. Like putting a straw in water and I blow lots of bubbles. That's really good for my throat. I can't let us completely move on without talking about the driveway. I love that song

It's the fucking best song From that album It totally rolled Why is it not Um I think because at that time You know Did you rewrite those verses?

Yeah that was that was like a real I don't know if I have credit for that I wasn't a credit claim at that time You do I think you do You do Good because that one was a big one that I went in And I mean I really wrote those lyrics And that was because I loved

It's a massive song Natalie and Bruglia's song Torn Yeah Nothing's flying. Which I believe she worked with the producers. We have the check. Okay. Scott.

Let's look it up. Torn. Torn. Scott Cutler and Ann Preetan who worked on the driveway. And I reached out to them because I love that song Torn. Wow. And if you listen to that song, you listen to the driveway, it's a very similar that like 90s kind of like Nassau-Thing which is what I grew up listening to. But it has a little bit of Nashville, like big country ballad in it.

Yeah. I feel like that should be a single. Because I got to sit with like real musicians too. Yeah. You know, like I had real musicians in the room and we could actually, you know, Hannah did. It was kind of like a preset situation. Yeah.

You're cutting to this tracks that were already built. I never even saw really anyone that worked on those. And so this was the first album that I was able to actually sit with the musician and go, oh, could you change that because that knows not going to be as good for me or whatever. So I was getting into that and it was fun. I had so much fun. Were you just totally on Cloud 9 doing that? Yeah, I was so into it.

I was so into it. I hated though. You know, I remember I hate it now and I hated it then. and people would be like, wow, this is not what we expected of you. We thought you'd be a fucking idiot. And you're like, oh, I don't know what this compliment was meant to be, but it is so backwards. And I think that was probably day one of a couple of those sessions where they were like, wow, you actually know what, like, you know, what a chord is. I'm like, yeah, because I'm like, I'm like a professional singer and I'm like one of the most, like, biggest professional singers that there are today.

So I'm like, how do you think that I'm singing songs and I don't know what the fucking chord is? So that kind of drives me nuts, you know? What do you think? All is right in the world that you like that song. I love that song. I actually love that album in general. Okay, so is there any chance that Bottom of the Ocean is about Jack? Like everything I'll never find again at the bottom of the... No, it's the original Pablo the Blowfish. That was about my... What? That was my original song. It is. I read this. It's about two fish. It's about melody and harmony. They're my two betas that died.

And I recently just had a fish die, which is also very... I'm a big fish person, which like a lot of... of these songs are hidden with like fish memorials. And bottom of the ocean is about my literal fish because I came home and both of them were dead. And there are betas and I did not put them in the same tank. This was not my fault. And I had a show to play like pretty soon after and I was really, really, really depressed. That's so sad.

That's about my literal fish. Yeah, Nathan had this whole theory that it's about the Titanic. No. No. Wow. You're O for two. Over two. That's tough.

Let's talk about Wake Up America from that song. Political Albury. Let's go. Yeah. Like, were you conscious of the platform that you had? What was that choice? Yes, because I was always telling kids. This was always weird.

I'm pretty sure you can find, like, me encouraging people to vote. Yeah. No of my fans could vote. I'm like, what is with this entire press day? Right. Of me telling kids to vote. 13-year-olds. Rock the vote.

Like, I can't vote. Right. I can't drive. I can't drink. I can't do any of this shit I want to do. So the environment became your thing? So I was using music. Yeah, I was using music as my platform.

And I knew that kids were the future because I was in front of them all the time. And I knew that, like, I was probably singing to, like, our future president. Yeah. Well, you're smart enough in that song to be like, I know you don't want to hear this from somebody so young. But, like, again, were the suits like, I don't think you want to be so preachy, my, like, or was this you just saying, I have a platform and I'm going to use it? Remember, but it was just like, I have a platform, I'm going to use it. And I had started my first charity, which was get your good on and was getting people to do good things and help the environment. And so I already knew that I wanted to like, I felt like, okay, I definitely don't want to be like a useless pop star for the rest of my life.

I'm going to need to start doing something. And I, you know, I think starting with the plan, it's a good idea. That's a great idea. We got to start there. Because otherwise, none of the other shit. Gotta get going. We got to get going. It was just an interesting to see you punch out in that way.

Okay, last question about this for me, which is miles to go, this fucking book that you published. Oh, my God, that I wrote at lunch on set. Did you actually write it? Yes, at lunch on set. For the ghost writer, I had help. There's a lot of Bible verses in that book. I know. They were all on my converse as well.

I think my converse, like, said, like, saved, like, across the toes. Like, I was, like, very religious. So there is a lot of you in that book then. It wasn't just, like, a concert t-shirt that was intended to be merchandise. No, I, like, actually sat lunch. And I was writing about this. Yeah. It was probably also written in a, you know, I probably spoke probably a little bit more like this.

I was probably like, Nick Jonas dumped me. He's a dick. You know, but they were like, okay, we could say that he's, like, you know, not very nice boy, you know, or whatever, but I was probably like, he's an asshole. Nick's still catching strays today. He's catching the fucking shit. I like Nick. I'm into him.

He's like married with children. We're all moving on. Everything is good in the world. Diley for life. But yeah. He's still catching strays. Oh, my gosh. Let's talk about can't be tamed, which was way tamer than it should have been.

Okay. Here's my thing. We just have to take a quick stop because I know that we are not talking about. the time of our lives EP because it's an EPN on an album but we can do a pit stop. Let's do a pit stop. The pit stop is that I was cutting party

in the USA while I was filming a movie. It's because I was doing the last song and I remember cutting party in the USA because it was the week that Michael Jackson had died. Oh shit. So the whole world was like... I drove by his house that morning on sunset. It was a weird feeling everywhere.

It was the weirdest day. It was the weirdest day. And yeah, it was not like giving party in the USA. Is that why it's fucking works? Maybe it was the magic of my phone. 800,000 people listened to it yesterday. What?

Yeah. That's weird. Yeah. Everyone's so mad at America all the time, but then again, they're like... It's like a... It's the national anthem. There's a petition for that. It really is.

But I do remember doing part in the USA at the time. I was making the movie. It was cutting it on my weekends. And that was one of the time where I was thinking, this is a lot. because I was really enjoying doing the last song because that's where I met Liam, who I would go on to marry and write a ton of most of my songs about. No kidding. And like, wait, talk about catching strays.

But, you know, so I really wanted to like hang out with him on the weekend. And I had to go instead hang out with Dr. Luke. And sing a Jesse Jay song. I sing Jesse J songs, which I also altered to fit me. Yes. So I was like, this needs to be just a little bit more Nashville, a little less London. Ask her the question. And I was so easy to please at that time.

that I literally was doing it for Sonic. There was a Sonic drive-thru that was near the studio. And, like, after I would do like, okay, I will do a verse and a chorus, and then you have to take me to Sonic. And then I would go. These are my demands. These are my demands. And then I'd be like, all right, let's go back.

Because I couldn't cut it in full because from the beginning of cutting that song, it was always one that I was dragging my feet on a little bit. But I'm glad that I did it, obviously. And I love it because of the life that it's gives me. It felt like you distanced yourself for a while. This was one. Because it's really hard to sing. It's the hardest song to sing in my entire set.

It's like really hard. Like what part? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really high. And also lying about not ever having heard about Jay-Z. Oh, yeah. A lot of, listen, I wasn't like a Jay-Z fan at the time. Right.

And like... That I believe. I wasn't a Jay-Z fan. But what is it saying? Oh, a Jay-Z song is on. But then I added Britney myself. Because I was like, if we're going to do Jay-Z's shout-outs, we're going to do Britney Spears shout-outs.

One for you. And sometimes you would do MJ on tour, and I didn't know about the timing. Yeah, I didn't even put it together that that was the timing. That's wild. That's just wild. It just worked through. It just worked out. I never meant to say, did I say a Michael Jackson song on?

I said that. I think you'd sometimes say particularly live and an MJ song was on. What? Yeah. That's so weird. That actually is like very strange. I must have done that on purpose, I guess, but that is what, that's all I would have been listening to at the time because of the timing that I could.

So anyways, I'm just not letting us. just fly over EP's. No, I'm glad. I'm dropping EPs in to the combo. The EPs are in the convo is good. So you had, because the JZ thing kind of became a little bit of a thing of Miley Cyrus is saying that she's never heard JZ.

Did you just say that sort of flippantly and didn't mean it as much as... No, I just was like a 12-year-old girl from Nashville so I just like wasn't listening to that much J-Z. My dad, most of the music that I know is from my dad's record player. Sure. But you got half the hip-hop universe to play

But that was later. Yeah, two years later. I had time to educate myself and to evolve. Because when you're the age that I was cutting the part in the USA, most people's music that they're aware of is the parents. For their parents. Totally. Oh, right, you were 16.

My first concert was a fucking warrant, okay? Awesome. Like, so if you asked me, you know, at that time, or Stealheart. Right. If you would have asked me what my favorite song was when I was 12, I probably would have said, like, she's my cherry pie. Yeah. Because it was my mom's favorite song.

all I was allowed to listen to. And this wasn't Spotify. I couldn't just go upstairs and listen to whatever. I would only be able to listen to what they would buy me. So my parents weren't like, you know, a lot of like 12-year-old girls not buying them J-Z albums. They weren't. My mom wasn't going to let me buy a J-Z album.

She was going to like get me the Dixie Chicks. Yeah. They were going to get what they wanted to listen to in the car because not every fucking kid had a cell phone and headphones and you didn't get to have your own little identity. Yeah. Well, and also if they get you something and you love it, they're going to hear it in the car. That's what I'm saying. So they want to do it.

Totally. That's why I had to listen to like veggie tales, which is like a Christian. Oh, I know veggie tales. That's what I had to listen to. I have three kids. And it didn't work as well like in a veggie tales song was on. But I listened to a lot of veggie tales. Who came up with Dream and My Cardigan?

Dream in my cardigan. I think it said that. I think Jesse J. came up with that. It's a massive song. And we're not letting you off the hook on the EPs. If you think we're not talking about, she is coming. We are.

I can't wait to get into that one. So you can't be tamed now. So, yeah, can't be tamed. I mean, I mean, I mean, I'm, I'm interested in, there's a couple of big songs on here. Scars is a really massive song, I think. It feels like Evanescence and Stevie Nicks together. Like, I think that's my favorite song from that album.

I wrote that one. This is the album I had written down that it's one of my favorite albums because if you check the credits, this is the one that every single song was really just me and John Shanks, which John Shanks was my original Michael Pollock, who's my songwriting partner now, and I do flowers and all something beautiful with. But I loved him so much because he was this multi-instrumentalist. And so that was the thing that I didn't have going, which we can get into about I am teaching me actually how to play guitar and piano. Because I played like, you know, some campfire chords.

Like my dad told me that if you learned how to play G, you could play everything, which is true if you only want to play Johnny Cash for the rest of your life. Fair. But I definitely couldn't play permanent December using only G's. And in this moment, he's teaching you. So John Chang's who is like an incredible guitarist. That's like his thing taught me how to play guitar and taught me how to play the piano. And he was like, your dad's a little bit right. You just also need to know like C and D and E and F and all the other ones.

And that was woven into some of the songs on this album. All of this was so stay is the first time. Stay. I wrote that song on a piano because he taught me. He goes, if you play C in a bunch of different places, it's going to sound like this. So I started playing those C chords and that's how I learned how to play the piano. And as I was learning to play it, that song came into my head and then he produced it. So really, John, I know he would vouch that that one was really, melodies and lyrics were,

you know, mostly all me and then he was working as my producer and as kind of someone that could you know, like the climb. He could help me make things really epic and pop-worthy and all the things. Stay is like I think one of them. Scars is my favorite from this album.

You saved these two songs for the back part. Yeah, why are they at the end? Because usually the songs that I like always get put at the very end. You bury? I don't do Barry. Who's driving this bus? This was back in the old days

where I was like, you know, not so hands-on because I would, I was hands-on, like I was writing the songs and everything, but I'd be like, you're still learning. It was like the 50-50 where I'm like, okay, you do your part, so you'll market it properly and people will actually hear it or I'm going to be Hannah Montana forever. And then I'll put the little songs that I like that I'm writing on the back of those albums. Which I still do, which is like why give me love is at the end because that's one for me. Okay. Stay for me is the first time where you talk about this theme that permeates a lot of your music, that tension between staying and leaving. even like take me along on this album yeah i wrote with my sister that kills me that's i wrote take me along before a concert in bed with my sister you don't even say take me along on the song

only one time i think oh yeah just take me with you right and well that was a whole thing this was more niley strays this was the song was about nick jonas and um yes he he broke up with me before well he deserves it and i was estrad again yeah and my sister i remember my my big sister who was playing guitar for me on that tour. She was a much better guitar player than me. And I was in my bed sobbing. And she came in, like, a regular big sister. And it's like, but it wasn't so regular because she's like, um,

25,000 people are waiting for you to pull your shit together. Pretty much. And get you a tissue because we got to go. Is it a hard excuse today? Bigger sister wisdom and be like, keep it going. She's got like some gold skinny. jeans, just the phone on, let's go. He's just a boy, hit him with your car.

Yeah, exactly. And my sister, again, I was like, I have this song idea. And I felt like I knew that his career was going to propel. Like, he was going to become the Jonas Brothers because they were opening for me. Yeah. Flex. And they wanted to go, and that was part of the reason why we were breaking up because he was going to go do his own tour. He was like separating himself from the Disney thing and they were going to go do that.

And I wanted him to take me with him on the tour. I was like, why can't we do it together? And so I had this idea of like, I don't. understand why you're leaving me. And I was telling my sister and my sister grabbed the guitar and started playing the songs. We wrote it together. So there is that theme through a lot of what you write. That's helpful context. But like even never be me, you, there's this. Very that. It's super that. And my question to you, I guess maybe you just answered it, but do you stay or do you leave? I am a, never be me. You warn us that you might leave. Now listen, I'm a Nashville

girl, I'm a stand by your man kind of lady. That's the vibe. That's the thing that really got embedded into my brain from, you know, my mom. My mom and my dad were in a relationship for over 30 years that, you know, they probably knew date three was going to end up the way it is. But my mom's a stand by your man kind of girl. So that was, I think, you know, that was kind of the younger me, the like I was still a copy paste of my parents. And that was kind of more my mom's way that she handled. You are a seeker.

And I imagine that runs in contrast. And the never be me was kind of. frustrated with myself because I really wanted to stay and I wanted to be the person that could stay but I always knew that I would be chasing the fire. I was going to be chasing like passion and I'm a little bit of a like you know kind of a lion in that way that the like I I a lot of the times in my dynamics I've kind of been because of my financial situation or because of my success or whatever it all the things that it is I've always kind of been the top of the chain Like I've always kind of been in the male position, the power position.

And so Never Be Me was kind of being, it was about that. It was about kind of being like, I am never going to be able to be this Tammy Wynette because, you know, I'm a lion. I outgrew that. That's my mom. Yeah. That one broke me. Yeah.

Never be me? Yeah. That's one of my favorite songs that I've written. And that again was like one that a lot of people were scared of me putting that song out because they were like, well, you know, it's. Men aren't going to like a song that you're telling them that it's inevitable that you're going to cheat on them or leave them. Yeah. And that's really going to be a big turnoff.

And I was like, well, for the three men that buy plastic cards, I'm okay with that. Sounds like a you problem. That won't women because it's all going to be gays and girls, you know. And then there's going to be like three dads that have to end appearing it just, you know, again, the back seat of the car. But then plastic cards actually did, we will not skip over the things in between, but plastic cards, was one that actually became more loved way later after it came out by the same people that liked what I did at Chris Cornell.

But we'll talk about that. We're kind of jumping along. Okay, let's do one more Can't Be Tamed and then we'll go to Bangers. Okay. You had the Every Rose Has its thorn cover on this. How are you thinking about covers at that point? Again.

It's your second album in a row with a cover song Fourth. That was also one of my first concerts was going to go see Poison. So this was, again, it's like, I think it was just something for me that I knew that I wasn't going to be able. One, I didn't have the skill set totally yet to write songs like that. And I knew that no song was ever going to get given to me that was that good. Because no one was thinking about giving an every rose has its thorn to Miley Cyrus at the time.

Like I was like a kid girl singer. So there was no songwriters besides, which I think on that song, I have a Jeffrey Steele song, who's like one of the biggest Nashville songwriters. And he saw me like that. and he's like an every rose kind of guy. But I just knew that I was just going to get more party in the USA's sent to me. Right. So I was like, I had to cover her in every girl.

Yeah. My mom's like, that was a plan. Should we be so lucky? But that, yeah, so that was kind of the deal with that was that every rose. I just knew that I was never, I wasn't quite ready to write one and I wasn't going to get a demo sent to me anytime soon as someone writing a song like that. But it's sort of is the start of turning you into our most preeminent cover artist. Like it's you and Kelly Clarkson maybe. it just becomes a thing through your whole career.

Yeah. Well, I was covering, too, even before that. Like, I was doing, oh, they loved when I did Smells Like Teen Spirit on the Hannah Toy. That was a big Miley moment. And so, by the way, could have heard a fucking pin drop during that one. Just did not resonate. That was a party of one. That was me.

I liked that one. Actually, when I watch videos on YouTube, it makes me actually L-O-L because, like, no one is enjoying themselves. Except for you. That's what's important. Me and my brother Who likes, you know, Kurt Cobain is like My sister's fucking cool for that That was it.

Does it matter to you? Like the cover piece, though, seems to be an important part of your artistry. Like, you slip into other people's clothes pretty easily. It is because I have this thing. I don't like watching movies very much because I always get too jealous

that I'm not in them. Right. And so with songs, it's so easy because you're like, I can't like go re-film, you know, Titanic and Pookie as Kate Winslet. Like, we don't got the budget for that. Right.

But I could just take this song and, you know, by Cindy Lobby. or any of these songs. Like I did a whole Pride special that was pretty much only covers. Yeah. I had plenty of gay music. But I was like,

I want to do like my pride playlist, you know, so a lot of like Chrissy Hein and that kind of thing and I can discover them. But it felt like it felt like it was a way for you to ingratiate yourself to some of your heroes too. You just spoke like 30 seconds ago

about how people didn't take you seriously because you were just this girl singer. Right. But you earned all of this respect for the way that you treated a lot of those. Well, I never expected them to vouch. And then they would vouch. They'd be like,

might cover my song and it's actually good. So that was always really exciting. Was that just like the extension of you like performing at the mall and like doing the robot and stuff? Was it like trying to be noticed or was this like a part of it runs through you? I just love the music. It's the musical mutton. I can do that. That's my thing with like where I get jealous, you know, where I like to watch things that I feel or listen to things that I feel like I could do and do it justice and do it well.

And so that was the kind of my thing with my covers. Okay. Should we talk about bangers? Yes. Not much to say, huh? No, there's not. Quite a bit. Quite a bit.

I mean, look, my overarching thing about this whole era, and, like, first of all, like, we talked about it. Like, when you look back at the VMAs, it's like, what the fuck was so wrong with that? It's not that deep. It's really not that. So you've talked enough about that. But what I can't tell is in this moment, how much of the choices that you're making are, you're just rebelling because now really you're breaking free and breaking out and being 10. Not now, but in 2013. No, no, no, no, no, no. But at that moment in time, are you playing a character?

Is it you're spiraling a little bit because you're maybe doing more drugs and being more famous than going out as you're talking about? Is it you're pushing back against these constraints that you'd been kind of trying to break out from? Is it something different? No, I wrote some things down. I think it's a little bit of that, but it's mostly something different. It's actually, Bangers is kind of like the original something beautiful or it's the original dead pets because this, was the thing that I really did what I wanted to do. And where there's a divide in that is always what we started with before, the marketing.

Yeah. Because it was marketed, not just by me, but just by the way that the press kind of, like, perceived it, was that this is like some rebellious thing or some idea of all the things that you just said of breaking away from the character or whatever. But that, to me, that's a strategy. And that's not really what I do. That's just, like, not the same brain that. Had you fallen in love with hip hop? Like what? Yes, because all my friends, that's all we listened to.

Because it was, if you guys just go back into 2011, 2011, 2012, 2012, 2013, that was rock and roll. Like, hip hop, like, rock and roll is, it's like pop. It's not, it's not a genre. It's a statement. And, like, pop is just pop culture. It's just, like, that's what's popular. And rock and roll, that's like something, that's why it's soul music. It's like, it's something in your soul.

And so for me, hip hop at the. the time was my, that was like my soul. That was the concerts that I was sneaking out to go to. That was the thing that my, uh, the CDs, my parents wouldn't let me listen to. You know, that is, that's what rock and roll is. So to me, that was just an extension of like, for me, 2011, 12, 13. That's like the way my mom talks about the 80s, like sneaking out of her windows to go see white snake. That was me, but with Juicy J. Yeah. You know, that just happened to be the time. That's what was at culture. I wasn't. unique in the fact that I was like a white girl listening to hip hop.

No. Like, just go look at a fucking Coachella set list. So that's why where it gets marked up to anything else, it's like that's, that was what, that's what had culture on fire at the time. Do you have any different perspective on that now, if you look at it and go, oh, I sort of put myself into this world of hip hop that I felt like was really mine because I was listening to it all the time that you sort of think of thing on? Again, I wasn't just like listening like a regular person with headphones on. with Juicy Jay. I was friends with Juicy Jay, actually. So, like, I don't know what to say.

Like, I was actually smoking fat fucking wax bowls with Wiz Khalifa. Like, I'm not faking. Right. So, like, that's the thing. And it's like, we also don't even want to, like, belittle the culture into that. It was like, I was sitting in the room with, like, DJ Paul and Mike Will and, like, listening to beats and writing songs. And, like, 23 came to me.

I didn't reach out to Mike Will. Mike Will sent the song to me. It was his 23rd birthday. And he was like, it would be so cool. if on my 23rd birthday. Because he also, you've got to remember, me and Mike are close to the same age. So he grew up with Hannah Montana too. Yeah.

You know, so all his sisters and all his friends in school, like they knew what Hannah Montana was. And in his mind, he thought it would be like an insane punk rock move to flip me into exactly what he did. So this wasn't something that I decided I was going to do as not only just a strategy or something that I felt like I could own or make my own. That was just actually my lifestyle. Those are actually, those are my friends. Those collaborators that I have on that record, whether it's like Ludacus or Big Sean. And Big Sean is still like, if I need something, he's on dead pets. That's what I'm saying.

If I need something from Big Sean, he got on one of the weird. How did you get on dead pets? He got on one of the weirdest songs too. Yes. Because I asked him for. That's saying something. I asked him for a feature. And when I sent him Tangerine.

Phone still playing as my eye strain. Jealous of the sun wishing I could do the same. you know, about like living on top of the sun. And he did like an incredible verse. Mike Will, he's all on dead pets as well. So not only did he bring me into his world, but I also brought him into mine. Yeah. He wouldn't have had songs like, you know, we can't stop.

And he wouldn't have really had songs like there's a couple ones even, you know, like, Will I Am did, like do my thing, which is like embedded in country, but with the hip hop drum. So we were all borrowing. This was not a one-sided take that everyone was cooking in the kitchen and no one. No one even thought about that. We're all there together. Yeah. I think in context, too, understanding, again, you are, J.D., I need to give him credit for this,

but he describes you as a musical mutt, and it is what you are. Like, you have the DNA of so much in you that you've just sort of absorbed. Because I hear rock and roll and hip-hop, and I hear country in rock and roll. I hear it. Like, when I listen to it, I have a really crazy ear, too, where I can usually find a song that's reminiscent of another song. Like, I could be a musicologist if I had to. because I can really go like, I can hear all this inspiration. That's what we do on this pod.

And it's so, it sticks out so easy to me. And usually it's like pretty crazy. Like someone will go, how the hell? Like that's actually the BPM and that's the key and that's the key. Like I'll like really do it. Right. I have a little bit of a copy paste like that. And so all of us, that's what we were doing.

And I was hearing in Mike, I was hearing pop music and he was hearing country. We were hearing. It's so generic really to just put things in like this is pop and this is rock and this is pop it's like we were all making this really yummy soup. Why did you let Mike continue to put his fucking watermark at the beginning of every one of your songs? Because it's like wearing a designer.

You know, Virgil at one point said Mike Will beats are like wearing Chanel and he wasn't wrong. Rock Mafia too. Rock Mafia, that was a time. I was like, these are Miley songs. Get out of the way. It's just what they did. That was the day. But it was like wearing a designer. All right. You know, Mike Will is like wearing

Chanel. But you are in this moment Like, we talked about this. Like, I have a special place on a lake up north. And in the morning, I'll go out in a kayak and, like, drag my finger through the water. And it starts these ripples. And it wakes the whole world up. And you, that's you. Like, you had the power to move culture by even accident at this moment in time.

Did you feel that weight? You know, I was, it was so affecting my personal life at the time that, like, I felt like that was kind of my focus because a lot of, not only did the world have a hard time for bangers. Yeah. Your personal life was your focus. Well, yeah, because my professional life was affecting my personal life a lot. And meaning that not only the outside world had a hard time coming with me, but my people on the inside had a hard time coming with me too. Because they're going like, what is this?

This isn't who we grew up with. So like my relationship, this was the first time me and Liam called off our engagement was during that time. and that was just because that wasn't the last song girl. And it had nothing to do with him now in hindsight that I'm older. I'm like, I had everything to do with me. And that's not a fault or a blame. That's just like, I get it. And not only I physically looked so different, I was just so different.

Yeah. And so I was definitely, I didn't realize at the time how cruel everyone was being. I think I was just kind of thinking of like this is the symptom of what this is. But now in hindsight, I realize that it was like, it was a little over the top. Yeah. The kind of like controversy and the backlash. When did you figure that out? I think as I started becoming like a true adult, probably when I was like 30.

Divorce, house burned down. Yeah, where I'm like, wow, I would never look at a 20-year-old and like judge them. And I would especially never look at a 15-year-old and judge them, you know. It sounds like you were more reactive to that power than sort of proactive. with it in the moment because it sounds like... Meaning... Like, instead of understanding that you possessed that power to shape culture and going out and doing something with it,

it felt like every week you had to respond to somebody freaking out about... And I was just shaping myself. Like, I wasn't even really trying to shape culture so much. I was just shaping myself because that was how young I was. Did you understand any of that or think about any of that response, particularly to the VMAs, but really to that whole era, in the lineage of... pop stars who have used provocation as part of their art as as Madonna or Brittany or

like I said I've been stripping at Cracker Barrel since I was three like I'm like guys I've been taking my clothes up I just ain't shown you yet so that was kind of my thing was like I just always like truly since I was like a young girl just always been like very sexually and sexually aware of myself and so I just was that felt totally natural to me you just were like what is the that was definitely not like someone I sat with with a computer and was like I'm going to remove my clothes, have gold teeth, and da-da-da-da. I was like, I just literally had a grill jeweler fly to my house and fit me because I wanted to buy a watch. And he was like, I can also give you teeth.

And I was like, cool. Why not? And I got two watches and two sets of teeth. And then that was it. Like, it was like definitely not a strategic plan. You're not going, I'm going to make a point about latent conservatism in American culture. No. No.

You're just doing anything. And I think in that area, I guess we were still like in Obama. that was like Obama era. So I felt pretty good. I felt like America was solid. I didn't feel like I needed to like complain too much. I was like, he's doing a good job. He's got it.

Everything's cool. We're all good guys. None of us need to like be like co-captons of this because he's got it. So I enjoyed that time because I didn't need to be president because we had one. Well, you. Jade. You created, yes. You created two songs that go on your personal Mount Rushmore on that album in We Can't Stop.

And I'm having a completely important. And Recky Ball. It was interesting that you used Mount Rushmore as an example because, you know, I literally had a Mount Rushmore on the Bangers tour where I had like two girls and thongs that were dressed as Mount Rushmore. Right. And then I had all the presidents for party in the USA at the end of Bangers because I needed to Bangers party in the USA basically. And then one of like there was like presidents, like daughters and nieces started coming to the show and I just kept getting like these like cease and assist letters. So I had to stop doing what I was doing with the presidents. So I, if you notice the Mount Rushmore I used has like just a generic face.

Because they were like, can- You're getting season-distance from like the estate of the descendant of- Because I was doing crazy stuff. Like we had the presidents doing some rotten things. I feel like Lincoln's got to be fair use at this line. No, like his great, great, great, great, great, great, great. Was like, hey, his like nephews coming tonight. Could you not have him?

Don't hump his face. Yeah, literally, that vibe. I mean, you should be so honored. But yes, we have the Mount Rushmore's. So we can't stop Wrecking Baller there. It starts, it doesn't start. It continues this thing where you have these massive songs on albums that I feel like sometimes overshadowed. Yeah, and I had more.

The rest. Well, so that's the question. Like, were there other singles on this album? Yeah. I wanted to do more videos. What were they? Well, what was very interesting to me was, I have this written down on my notes, that I was on tour, which is why I didn't have more singles. Because, like, you know, the label and the team at the time was like, you know, you're on tour.

Like, you're on tour, so you probably won't have any time to make a music video. I was like, guys, I've been on tour making music videos writing fucking books since I was 10. Right. Like, it's not that deep. But I think that, you know, it was the songs. They weren't totally as certain with the album as I was. Like, I wanted to make a 4 by 4 video. Riding high in the air and we're driving fast till we throw them out of gas.

Let's go. With Nellie? With Nellie. and I had everyone already lined up. Madonna was down to do the video. Miranda Cosagra. Like, I had all these people like down and did this video. They didn't like you talking about piss.

Yeah, they didn't want me talking about a pit bull, piss, all this stuff. And I had all these, like, I was getting all these people to be in the video. And this was before, like, Taylor had, like, a lot of famous people in her crew. I was friends with famous people first. You were going to do the bad one video. And I wanted to do that. And I had a fucking squad. And my squad was very, very cool.

But they were like, you know. Why didn't we do this? That's what I want to know. So instead, when I was in Nashville, what I decided to do after the show was completely unproductive, counterproductive, you could even say. Right. So, Miley needs structure. That's what I'm saying. Give us something to do.

Guys, I wouldn't be doing any of this stuff that I'm doing right now if you would have given me a job to do. You gave me a music video to go film with the Miley Avengers. No, I had Madonna was down to mud wrestle, which. Miranda Kerr. What? That was my, that was my theme. That's what I wanted to happen. I wanted, because my dad has a 500 acre farm. So I was like, y'all don't want him to get a location. We all get together. We're all going to get together. We have plenty of locations. Like, we can use his dirt bikes and all his stuff. You probably have four by fours. We have fours. So I was like, I'm going to get like all these girls, like all these supermodels,

all these Victoria's secret models and all these like pop icons to come to my dad's farm, get in the back of four by fours and we're going to mud wrestle and we're going to like go out and do donuts, which is in part of the lyric. And like, I had all this. And like, I had all these girls down to do it. And... This hurts. It hurts. I'm pleased for your sobriety, but I would like to know what you were taking at that time because

that is fucking awesome. Yeah, I was actually... Amazing. I had my wisdom teeth removed that day instead, actually. Which was really not good that I have a tattoo. I'm sure you do. Because Wayne was there somewhere. Oh yeah, that's my tooth.

I decided to instead do my bangor show, party all night, go to an 8 a.m. dental appointment, which is the worst thing I could have possibly got. No Novocaine needed. Great lights. Had played. Get my tooth pulled immediately and then go back to what I was doing, go back to the party. So that was pretty much what I decided to do when. I could have been mud wrestling with Miranda Kerr. And Madonna. That's what I'm saying. And Nelly. And Nelly. Because Nellie is kind of that the OG crossover. That's what I grew up listening to. Because like he had a song with Tim McGraw, which I'm sorry, OG bangers. That song is awesome. Bangers. But I

listened to Nellie growing up because it was more of a like hip hop country crossover. And it was also perfect for my era. I was like in, you know, sixth grade. Like that was like, Nelly was everything. So I wanted to make a really cool video. In hindsight, having Brittany on bangers actually... That was sick.

Flying high up on the bird, acrophobia. I slick quarter iron down my purse. Where the dollars that? It was pretty, it was important from like a torch passing standpoint. It also, I feel like she's one of the, she's one of the people who didn't end up managing the weight of that culture moving power that you had in that moment in the same way.

It really took its toll on her. Again, like, Bangers is an OG. It's an OG something beautiful. It's like Britney Spears and Naomi Campbell. Like, that's done. Like, those are my two that now that I've had those, like no one can truly tell me anything. Well, I mean, Madonna Mud Wrestling would have. Madonna was really good.

But I've worked with Madonna too. I've got to work with Madonna. I've gotten to really check so many of these boxes off my list of the people that really like made me. who I am. And definitely Brittany is, if not the most, one of the most impactful parts of that. Well, because you were, I mean, Hannah was sort of a peak

Hannah in that moment right after she had really been put through it. Lindsay Lohan was really put through it. How much, we're sort of going back in time here, but I did want to ask you this. Like, how often were you hearing people say things to you? Like, don't end up like those girls. They would always put me on the cover

of magazines side by side with them, you know? And I was like, Like, what's wrong with that? But I kind of want to be them. I was never like, I was always like, okay, cool. Maybe she was really sad, which is I don't like that she was sad when she shaved her head, but her shaving her head was sick. I just don't like why she did it, but I love what she did.

You know, and like no one can complain about Lindsay now. How good does she look? Thriving. That's what I'm saying. Thriving. She looks amazing. Got a Netflix deal. I love those movies.

Me too. I watch them in the spring. I'm watching those Christmas movies. You watch it after, you watch the Christmas movie. I watch them the day they come out. I have an alarm on my phone and then I watch them all Christmas. and then I get a little sick of them by January and March, we're back. What is it, like the Irish one?

Is that Irish Wish? You're looking at me. Even like he's having any idea. Irish Wish was great. I'll probably watch that tonight. And then like freakier Friday? I love. I'm excited.

Can't wait. Can't wait. Can't wait. Pink slip reuniting. Love. Incredible. All this is exciting. We're at the edge of the forest of my understanding of Lindsay Lohan movies at this point.

Pink Slip was an iconic band. That music was sick. It was so good. I'm saying the way that kid music crosses over. into like culture like this is like it's very simple the music just has to be good the music was good the music was good the music was great Lindsay's music was good that was one of my first christmas presents I ever got was the Lindsay Low Hand CD from my grandmother the the one with rumors yeah and I was like you covered that way you did that on like did you did that on Instagram ones oh I'm sure you like

you like saying it to her and maybe she said or maybe IP I could have done an IP I love that song love her is there anything else you want to yell at us about for bangers see bangers is my OGSB, that's what I have written down. It is. And on tour, which I didn't have singles. And was the fact that they kept you locked up from doing the 4x4 video? Like, what made you do this insane career right turn to dead pets? That's what happened. Which is fucking super bold.

Because I had nothing to do after the shows. They should have been putting me to work. But instead, I was drinking and taking drugs on my tourbos. Yes, you were. Listening to every Flaming Lips album ever. because now I had everything on my phone. This is like right when music is starting to get good because we can access everything.

And when you turn this thing in, like really behind the scenes, are there label execs trying to jump in front of you like they're taking a bullet for the president? I wouldn't let them anywhere near me at the time. So what's the discussion? So why the album's so fucking good. I wouldn't let them anywhere near me at that time.

Like I, there was probably bullet holes on everybody else, like management and my sweet, sweet mother. I'm sure. But how do you end in a place that says, okay, Miley's putting this out, But only on SoundCloud. Because I was doing it regardless.

Like, I was doing it. And I didn't have the thing that I have now where, like, I ask or like I'm afraid of, like, getting, you know, sued or something. I just am doing it. And so I don't actually know exactly how it got to that point because I – Lawyers yelling at each other. I refuse to be a part of that. Yeah. I just know I had, like, my managers, my label, my lawyer all in my garage listening to the album.

White – as ghosts. spit buckets on the side. And I had an idea. And I remember one time, this is hilarious, actually. This is like coming back to me. I had scheduled a big business meeting. Everyone was going to come in and we were going to talk about like the splits and how we were going to put the songs out and what the rollout was going to be in the whole campaign and

whatever. I decided to take drugs. And I dressed up as a mermaid with my best friend, Katie, who's married to Wayne coin. And we went outside. And when the label and the attorney showed up, we were dressed. as mermaids in the pool flipping our friends. And the only adult in the room that was there to have this, like, legal conversation was

Wayne, who just always wears a suit. You know, his whole thing is he wears a suit. So I was like, he looks nice. But then again, he also had on like a sex, you know, sex chaps on top of it. Assless chaps. Yeah, at the same time, I was like, he was on a tie. But he was like fully also wearing like a choker and had a leash on his neck. We probably had outside from our mermaid tails.

And I remember us laughing so hard looking at. in at Wayne having this meeting with like RCA and my lawyers and they've been like, he's got it. No, we're fine. And Wayne Coin Business Casual. Yeah, Wayne Coin Business Casual was awesome. And the entire kitchen was completely painted and like literally we would have paint nights or we would just destroy the house. And it was just the best era ever. And I had I have written down a couple of things about this.

I think some of the things that you had said about the kind of like the drug and the party themes and how do I look back at the album now from a place of sobriety and it just was thank god i had that time in my life i'm so glad i survived that time in my life i would definitely not uh encourage anyone else to go this hard but the fact that i got through it i'm very glad i got to how much did that contribute to the creative process because you've got like there's entirely okay because in the middle yeah you can hear it i mean there's obviously the video in 2009 of you and then you're overt about the drug use in the last couple albums. But then there's also like on She's Coming, milky, milky milk, you're like, drugs rule everything around me, right?

In the middle of this album, you say, what the fuck is God? And then I heard you with Zane say, sobriety is my God now. I know, I think that was a little dramatic. Okay, fine, you're allowed to be dramatic. Yeah, that was a little dramatic. Because someone was like used that as a quote and I was like, okay, I wouldn't say it's my God. I'm not going to like go into, and I don't do meetings or anything. But so then talk about that process of drugs and sobriety and how it contributes creatively, obviously here on this record.

But then even your sobriety today, does that change the way that you create? Yeah, so to talk about it during Deadpats, obviously it was like a huge influence. And I never, I mean, you can't write songs like bang my box at 2 p.m. with a fucking sprite. It wouldn't be right. No. And I had an engineer who literally has never done a drug a day in his life, and I love to call him at like six in the morning as I'm leaving the strip club to be like, time to cut some vocals. And I got a lot of harmony ideas, like 440 ideas. And I remember sitting with Diane Martel, who was like a big part of the Bangor's era.

And there was, I think it is on lighter where it says it's like coming towards me. It's moving slowly but moving quickly at the same time. Yeah. She's like, you're taking drugs. Yeah, yeah. You know, nothing moves slow and fast at the same time unless you're doing two things that counter each other. So definitely like a super important part of that creative process. but I don't think that it's like an imperative part

of being your ultimate creative self. I don't think you have to be high to be ultimately creative. Can you put yourself in those songs as a sober person? Dude, I can't write songs as well as I feel like. Like the things that I was able to find, I can write songs as well, but I can't find things like tangerine.

Yeah. You know, and it's really hard, like Cyrus, Kyes, a song that's one of my favorite songs. That's because it's a song off of... I have it saved, actually. For my next album, because I'm still, like, obsessed with that song. Let's see. It's the Flaming and Lips.

Let's go to my next act. Which one is it? I think it's not Meepymore. It's Seven Skies H3. That's one of my favorite songs. Oh, you're not here. I can taste a spit. Of the Flaming Lips.

It's a weird title, so that's why I never remember it. Yeah. Seven Skies H-3. But it's called Cyrus, and I wrote that one night because a lot of that song is instrumental, So I just sang my song over that song. But I don't know if I could do something like that now

because I would have so many of the boundaries now in my mind going, oh, I shouldn't do that. I should change the melody. I should make sure that I'm clear to, you know, that kind of thing. So, yeah, I think that the songwriting to write those particular types of subjects, it was really helpful. And then I was able to make an album that I equally love that I think is excellent and without it.

So I feel good that in my songwriting It's not like a totally, it's not a It's not a crutch that I can't live without But it definitely makes it just go bleh Because you don't have so many of the brakes on your brain telling you not to say stupid things. Like fuck me so you stop baby talking. That's not a 2 p.m. with a Sprite either.

Producer Bell, I believe that song was her top Spotify Wrapped last year. Yes, I love that song. Hey, so many years in a row. Thank you. I am obsessed with Pablo the Blowface. Thank you. Is that a real, that is actually a real, can you please tell me about Paulo the blowfish?

Not the song. That's my blowfish. But tell me about Pablo. He died. He died. He died. Are those real tears on the song? Yes.

Followed by a real laugh. Yes. You can see it in video. I recorded it live. I know. And you actually went and saw friends eating sushi and got sick to your stomach. People would always ask me to go to sushi and I was just like, because I don't like, I can make really big decisions in my life. life, but I hate when somebody's like, what should we get for dinner? I'm like, I hate that.

Like, it's just, I need to just be told where to go and I'll find my way. And so, um, all my friends, you know, we live in L.A., they'd always choose sushi and I would like, be like, be like, bye, Pablo. Right. Is it still? Is that a hang up for you still? No, I love sushi. Okay. I know, Pablo R.A.P. And I still have a lot of fish. I have a new fish named Bartholomew, who's, like, kind of the new Pablo. I'm obsessed with him. But that's going to be a song. I might have to relapse to write because fucks. Like, how do you get Bartholomew? And I'm like, how do you get Barth Tholomew. Yeah.

Not a lot of rhymes. Into one of those. Not very many. Wait, what type of, is he also a blowfish? He's a, he's a blowfish.

What does that mean? Some sort of like, something's wrong with, he's like, special. He's the special. Well, basically he was not working in someone else's tank.

And I had a tank that was pretty large with very small fish in it because after Pablo, I wasn't really able to just replace him and move on. So I hadn't had a blowfish in all this time, but I have a tank larger number one. Exactly. It took me a while. And this one must have much easier.

because someone else was like, I got one, you want it? And they dropped him off at my house. And when I walked in the front door, I gasped because he was so, you know, the definition of cute, like, so ugly that it's like good again? That's him. He's fucking terrifying. Yeah, I have a lot to make, right? Where you're just like, ugh.

And I've done a lot to make my house like a very welcoming place. And he's like the least welcoming looking thing that's ever lived on planet Earth. He's fucking heinous. Miley Cyrus and her ugly pets. Literally. Oh, poor part of you. He's so cute. But you know what's crazy is he was dropped off to me the same day.

that my pig puddles died and he looks exactly like puddles he's a reincarnation so he's actually he looks okay i have a pickstead before i leave i'll show you not yet because both of them are so hideous i knew it you won't even tattoos but what i did was i do have a box of their ashes on my bedside which now is moved into a bedside drawer because it was ruining my sex life i was like can you move them big can we get the dead stuff out i would honestly i would take i would take the myly loa voice over the bat. Yeah, they're like, what the hell? And that's why I also don't drink anymore, because the first thing I do is, like, when they get

to my house, I'm like, want to see my dead fish. And they're like, all right, this is not the fantasy that I had in mind. Do you want to see the charred remains of some ugly ass pets? So anyways, the question was, Bob of the Blobfish. It was a real blowfish. I absolutely adored him. He was less of a fish and more like a dog. He recognized me when I would come in the front door.

He would swim to the side of the tank, and I know he was like so, so cute. And then Melanie Safka, who's now passed also. she had a seahorse named Sadie. Yeah. And in the verse it says I heard there's a seahorse named Sadie. Melanie Sofka, that was her actual seahorse. And when she met Pablo, she was at my house with her son, Bo. And I was telling her and I played the song for her.

And she was like, I think I have. Oh, actually it was before because Pablo hadn't died yet. So I introduced her to Pablo. And she came up and she was like, I think I have someone for him, my seahorse. I want to introduce them, which never happened. That's so sad. What's the pet you want? Everyone left us too young.

What's the pet you mourn the most? Floyd. That was my bangers. That was my bangers dog. And I would have never made dead pets without Floyd. He was the inspiration. Yeah. I feel like Wayne was kind of my reincarnation.

Like he jumped into Wayne's body and Wayne became Floyd. How many pets have you had? Too many. At one point I had 14 dogs, which is illegal. But I actually, it's better than them being like, okay. You can edit that out. Are we to put them behind bars? Like, what should be legal?

Should they be able to be with me? Yeah. Living a fabulous life? Are you not allowed to? have 14 dollars? I think the cab is seven. Wow. In California? In California. Yeah. Your dad's ranch. Well, listen, I had two people. So seven for each. That's how I got away with it. Okay. We'll add to the petition for a party in the USA be the national anthem and for you to have as many dogs as you want. As I'm saying, they live a better life than like anybody. Like they're only eating like the clean.

Like I'm like, come on. Like you would rather me have a cap of seven dogs and these other seven dogs be behind bars at like some terrible deal. Yeah, there's so many dogs that need homes. Like 14 of them. This would be our coffee. Let Miley Cyrus have all the dogs you want. Did you know Miley Cyrus and her dead pets is a ballsy move? Like, did you know, or were you just doing what you wanted to do? That was just like, I didn't even think of it really being balzy. That was just like pure from my heart.

That was just like, that was just my heart. I have a song with Wayne called Wea Family. Because me, Wayne, and Katie, really, we're still like that. Like, it's kind of freaky. We're like totally telepathic with each other. We still have that same relationship. And I don't think that they kind of define it as much as I do. But, you know, he has two little babies now.

So he doesn't do any of the things that we were doing either anymore. So we all kind of settled at the same time. But then you, then after this insane trip, you go and you make younger now with Orrin Yole. They said like it's like a complete 180, which I love about you, now understanding the entire Catholic. But like, why this? So this. And why with him? This part's a little bit, you know, kind of delicate because with younger now, I think that when me and Liam split up the first time with bangers, it was because it was like I was this provocateur and it was like highly sexualized.

And so for younger now, the album, the reason I kind of like played into this innocence was because I think that was a way to keep and a way to stay was by if I'm younger now, if I'm less like awake as like this, like, this like. sexual woman publicly, then this is going to be the way that I can keep like a happy home. Because with something beautiful, this album, I do have that. I do have like a really genuinely lovely personal life. And like my career is exactly how I want it to be. And the music is great and all these things. And I think I was seeking that in Younger now, but I didn't know how to fully do it because I was also balancing the sobriety thing because I wasn't getting fully sober yet.

And so I was like, well, I'm safe and I'm clear. clean and I'm wearing all white and I'm singing songs about nature, but, you know, my personal life is still, like I'm still kind of in that dead pet's era. So I think I was just trying to find a persona that could keep my personal life intact. Sure. So there's a bit of a defense mechanism there. Yeah. And not an attempt to publicly appeal to a more conservative world post-trump. It was all about my private life. It was just your own inside. And that was one of the reasons I really wanted to do this podcast was because I feel like these albums coming up are the ones that I think I would never want to make an excuse for in any ways because, you know, there's, there's.

This just didn't feel like you. This album did not. It's, and it kind of wasn't. It was the songwriter of me, but it was me putting a lot of restriction on myself. And what's funny is like, that's always worked really well. I've never been someone that restricts for like the business part of things. Yeah. Or for the label, it's always been about how to.

do I keep my personal life sacred and intact? And, you know, for me, in all respect, without, I'm super open. So sometimes I have to be careful about not telling other people's stuff because I, you know, I kind of say everything. But to still maintain that level of like respect and privacy, it's like, for me, in the relationship and for my home life, it was really important that I, also because, you know, again, respectfully, Liam was also a part of other big franchises. Like, The Hunger games and like his brother is a Marvel superhero. And so I was also representing the family. And so I felt like I needed to and I, you know, it was my duty to because my plan was this time I didn't want the relationship to fall apart. I wanted it to stay intact. And the reason why it

didn't work during bangers was because of that. So for this time, I really wanted to be able to say, I'm still making my music. I can still be Miley Cyrus, but I need to be able to keep this part of my life preserved. And now in hindsight, what I should have done was just like kind of left it alone. Like, it didn't need to come with me into the career. Like, I didn't need to be wearing all white. And that was me trying to say, I'm pure. Look, I'm wearing all white. I'm going to get married. Like, I'm in my wedding dress. That kind of thing. And I probably could have just, like, made a pop album. But for me, I don't know how to not bring my personal life onto the stage. So even though it wasn't really my personal life, because my personal life was actually still kind of in its dead pets.

era like I was still personally kind of wild I felt like that wasn't the problem the first time the first time wasn't the problem wasn't what was happening behind closed doors it was that I was bringing my life onto the stage and so I think about that sentiment and then you getting choked up singing to your mother end of the world mm-hmm let's pretend that it's the end of and there's just this sort of parallel between trying desperately to save something that has maybe lost anyway so how also a theme and Yeah. So how does that make you feel about Malibu? The sky's so blue. You're in love with some of your hits.

Well, Malibu I really love because I wrote it in the car, driving, do a lot of riding in the car. And I was driving the coast of Malibu going to work at the voice. And so we took, but if you live in L.A., this was ridiculous. Why we took the PCH the entire way to like wherever we're, to Burbank. It makes no sense. No. But anyway, so I took it. long enough that I was able to listen to this little guitar melody that Orrin had played,

and I wrote the whole song by the time I had gotten there. And because I had had his melody on the guitar, I was able to sing it for everybody in the room by the time I got to hair and makeup because I had written the whole song by the time I got to Burbank from Malibu. And so I had the guitar and I was able to sing it on top, and people started like melting and crying. The makeup artist that I was using, I'll never forget. She was like, she was like, this is the most beautiful song. And again, I think it kind of could have always just been the to guitar and that's what I wrote it to. And then again, I tried to blend the worlds. And because I had done dead pets, I kind of wanted to make it up to my label and say, I can put drums and

like some claps on this. And so I tried to kind of pop it up. But what I really should have done is fully committed, which is why I'm excited to talk about some other albums, because I think the thing that happens to me that is never a good idea is when something becomes medium or mush. When it's a half, when it's half my idea, because I think some of these next records we're about to get into, that's my problem with them is I think they became mushy. And I think She is coming? She is coming really is mushy because it's only a third. It's a third of the album.

You didn't get the other two. Well, so what happened? So what happened with that was I wasn't having hits on Younger now. And Dead Pets obviously had no hits. So I had only had hits from Bangers. Lighter. Lighter is still a smash. It's probably about seven minutes too long to be a hit.

So since Bangers, I had had no hits. And so I didn't have a follow up. And so everyone was panicking about that. Not me, though. And so dead pets didn't have one. Younger now didn't have one, which I always think is a little bit silly because Malibu is technically a hit. Yeah. And a hit is like a very beloved, you know, song in pop culture.

And so I had that. And then as I got to She Is Coming, I think there was the panic of like, fuck, you can put out like one experimental art record. And then that's not being looked at for a hit. And then you can put out like a second singer-songwriter record, but you can't put out like a real album that does. doesn't have a hit on it. And so I think they got really scared of me not having so-called hits. And then they fucked up because they took all the songs that I actually think were hits off of the album and left us with Cattitude.

Yes. So I'm like, that didn't work because Cattitude had pairings. They had, it had a lot of songs like that. Pairings. What can you pair with Cattitude? Well, it had other like kind of house ballroom, very Roo. Okay. Because that's when Rue was in the height of its like taking over main culture. Like, Rue was subculture up until like 2018.

Yeah. And so that's as Rue was becoming in like, you know, I was like, you know, having, yeah, it was like I was getting kind of more of an understanding of like drag culture and gay culture. So there was more songs like that, but then there was a song that is a total miss that my fans definitely know because I'm pretty sure they liked it on YouTube called Cold Blooded, which is about my dad. And that was a big miss. And so they ended up belittling me and putting me into songs like Unholy, which is a song I don't like. about being drunk and about being high. Yeah.

And I never, I didn't like that song. And by the way, I was sober at that time, which made me feel fucking like a big fraud. And I remember at the time, uh, someone that shall not be named was like, it's okay if you're sober, but just don't tell anybody because the kids won't think you're cool anymore. Because when you had hits during bangers, your whole thing was being fucked up. And I was like, but everyone was mad at me. And you particularly were mad at me. So why now that you see that when I had hits, I was fucked up, you want me to

to make music that I sing about being fucked up. But can't stop, it wasn't about being fucked up. That really wasn't what the song was about. But that was what it got because of my persona. That's what it got put into of like that was her fucked up era. And I had plenty of fucked up eras. It didn't work. Dead pets, like I said, they didn't have any jumpers.

Ryan Seacrest didn't spend that one too much. So I'm like, you know, but anyways, they, I think wanted to put me down to like when Miley parties, that sells hits. And they actually took one of the best songs off of it, Slideaway, which ended up being a single. You love Slideaway. Which is one of the better songs that were on that. Again, wasn't what I had intended to be. Me and Andrew Wyatt actually had way cooler production and like the song was infinitely better

before what it became. But what I did do was I put Mike Will on Slideaway. Yeah. Because I was like, I do know. If you guys want to do the thing that works, get Mike back in the room. Yeah. So putting Mike in the room with like an orchestra with Andrew Wyatt, that's what I do best, is taking people that would have never been in the same space, but they already respect

each other. And so Mike and Wyatt, they did a great job doing what they needed to do. do with that. Is there any world in which the world will ever hear that other version of Slydeway? That's like one of my favorite songs. I remember the first time I said this to Nathan when we were doing that episode. I don't remember where I was when I heard it for the first time, but somebody sent it to me and I just wasn't prepared for it to be in the feels.

And I cried. I think I was in an Uber. And I just was in the back of an Uber like crying to slide away because I just, I just wasn't, I was not ready. Well, and the time in my life that I put it out, you know, was right when I was, I think that was like right after I had, yeah, announced that, well, I didn't really announce. It got put into the world that I was getting divorced because I had been married between Malibu

and then the house burning down and we jump, yeah, right from there. And I had nothing breaks like a heart, which is coincidentally, one of the lines is this burning house, there's nothing left and it's smoking, which I wrote before the house ever burned down. And I was promoting house. There's nothing left it's smoking. We both nowhere. And I was promoting that record the week after my house burned down because I did not take time to deal with that emotionally. I went straight from South Africa doing Black Mirror straight to Europe to go promote that with Mark.

And actually in between the South Africa and promoting that with Mark in Europe, I did go back home really quick. and kind of have my, like a relapse moment there, as anyone would, try to go, fuck, I got to keep working. And so I'm going to drink. I'm going to, you know, all these things. So kind of had that moment and then was doing nothing breaks. And then, yeah, she is coming with Slide Away. It was happening in real time. And so that performance from the VMAs kind of became embedded with the song itself because it was just happening all in real time.

But it's not actually even on the EP. Well, so. Is it? No. No. But did, well, the extended version. But I don't know. They put it back on in like 2023.

It wasn't actually part of it. But there are some songs then from that era that made their way onto plastic hearts. And one of my, at least my takeaways from younger now was didn't love the album, but it felt consistent from start to finish. Like it felt like a thing. And I feel that way about plastic hearts. Talk too much. Never need. I think that's what the song is called.

Thinking way too much. Oh. Absolute trash. And I remember I was like I was writing songs for Justin Timberlake in my dream And like you know I was probably thinking it was like for like a troll soundtrack And they definitely didn't need to make the album and it's absolute garbage And when I listen to myself telling Howard Stern like yeah I'm such a six songwriter with that shit my sleep I'm like yeah bitch

There's other things that happen in your sleep too You can fly and do all kinds of shit nothing that anyone ever needs to see Well plastic hearts feels like an idea And actually Orrin Yoll told me it was garbage and I argued with them But he was right. It's actual, it's actual trash. Anyways. I would have shot it off into the sun, probably. Cut it off the vinyl.

We were trying things. We were wearing white dresses. It's fine. It's good to try some stuff. I like plastic hearts because it clearly, it brings back the rock in you. I can hear the oasis and the Beatles and the stones and the, obviously the Stevie. Why the fuck is do a leap on this album? Okay, well, that wasn't my idea.

And second of all, no shade to doolipa. It just isn't cohesive with the album. Right. She would have been much better on. on something like, what after, like even in the summer vacation. Like,

she would have been great on Wildcard. I'm a lot. She would have been great on any of, river, could you imagine? Gay Anthem. It sounds like it would have made sense on her album.

That's what I wrote it. Prisoner could have been on her records. Totally. That was the idea. It didn't make sense here. So here's the thing, reverse about some of the things that you said originally

where you're like, okay, I can hear the Beatles, I can hear the oasis, I can hear Rolling Sound. The only thing is the problem with that is that's, Andrew Watts idea of rock and roll. I know.

My idea of rock and roll is Donna Summer and Diana and Cher. I know. And like even if we want to go into like, we can do like, you know, Kathleen Hannah or Karen O. Like I think like I'd much rather something sound like yeah, yeah, yeah, which is like more something beautiful. So it became very like, this is what I'm upset about because plastic hearts, I'm really unhappy with the vocal production. And it just basically became one of those things that became me. because Andrew Watt, the credit that I will give him is that I think I would have made the wrong record if it wasn't for him. I think the thing that I thought that I was going to make next probably would have been a desperate grab to fix whatever the panic was happening of like, okay, we tried to put some pop songs out.

Now they're not even working, and I think it would have been, I think it actually would have been worse. So he drove me into a really nice, authentic kind of back to that Meet Miley Cyrus kind of place that I started. True line there. Yeah. And I really think he did, which I will get the credit too, of producers that are really genius. What they do is they help you remember or find a part of yourself that you've either forgotten or you didn't even know existed. Yeah. And I think he kind of knew me from like that Chris Cornell time.

Yeah. It's a little bit of a cover album in its own way. He kind of knew where to take me in a way that I didn't. And the problem, the reason that I didn't know to go there was because that definitely probably wasn't. But definitely wasn't the team's idea of what, let's salvage a sinking career by a song with Billy Idol. Yeah. Like no one ever. No.

So I think they were a little bit like, that's where like the medicinal dua came in where they were like, uh-oh. This career. Yeah, they're like, this career is sick. Like when my beta fish who recently died had had cancer, I had to put this little drop on its tail. It didn't work, but I was trying. So it was a little bit that where they were like, uh-oh, this is like, this is not what we have. had in mind to unsink this ship. Or like the big fat Greek wedding guy with the windbag. She was my best. Exactly. Let's like spray a little to a leap on it. Exactly. I think that's what

they did. They basically, they were like, oh great, here's this pile of shit album she gave us. Let's spray some do a leap on. That'll make it better. It wasn't obvious at the time, but with something beautiful, which is unequivocally the best recording of your vocal ever. Thank you. I agree. Like, Plastic Hearts, the vocal is not the way. I would have liked it. Right. But you didn't really have a hit on there, except Angels like you is massive. Now. That you're wrong. Which would have always been the first single. Did you know?

That's what I wanted. That's what I wanted to be the first single. And then basically it was like put out a pop song first because they always say you need to have like the rocket that takes the album like out into the world. And then once the world has it, then they, but it was such a wrong move. It streamed more than we can't stop and wrecking ball yesterday. I want to do angels. And what the fuck do I know? Not even because what the fuck do I know. Because actually what the fuck do I know is a song that I've never really listened to.

It's just like not my favorite song of mine. What the fuck do I know? But I know that the fans, they really, really love that song because they like that. It reminds them of Meet Miley Ceyers. Yeah, it reminds them a breakout. Like, they felt like, oh, that's like the grown version of the teen Miley. So they really like that one. So I like it because they like that.

I'm down when the fans have an idea because usually they're right because they're the ones playing it. So I'm like, if you like a song, please do. Like make Angels like you a thing. Go for it. But in my mind, angels like you and what the fuck do I know should have always been the singles. And we should have let the album be what the album was. which was, you know, I had, you know, Taylor Hawkins, I saw him and I got really close. He played drums on this lot.

He played on the sixth track, yeah. Chad Smith, and I had all these guys. And then it got produced into, well, you know, Wai and I wanted to be rock, but the label wants it to be pop, so let's do this like pop rock mush. And then it just became kind of nothing. And so I do want to remaster that album at some time. Like, I actually need to remix. And I don't even need to re-sing because all of it's there.

It just got. You just need to take some patches off your vocal. I just need to take some shit off my voice, yeah. Yeah. Because I'm really bummed because, plastic cards. There's an album on it called, there's a song called Hate Me on it, which is another song that I really, really like, because

I had a dream where I was at my own funeral, kind of like Big Fish. Made me worry about your friends. Oh, yeah, that, yeah, my, well, I didn't have many good ones in that particular era, but I did want to, it was a song again, you know, about this theme of like, I wonder if you wouldn't be so like angry at me for all the things. Because it always happens like this. We, you know, nail these people onto the cross. And then once they're dead and gone, we have this, like, we give them a legendary award.

Right. Let's just give them the legends award by their life. Right. Let's not, like, drag them through the mud as they're existing and then at the end honor their career. Or it always happens when they're, like, 80. And they're like, now I don't care anymore. So that was kind of the deal for Plastic Hearts was that song, Hate Me I really loved. And I actually took it off.

The CD and the vinyl are a different. vocal than what's on streaming because I actually did remix it a little bit before it made it to digital because I was upset by it because I love that song. I want to make sure that we have time for everything that we want to get into on something beautiful. Yep. Do you want to ask one flowers question on endless summer vacation just so that we don't skip it, but then we make sure that we... Yeah.

I mean, I guess was endless summer vacation really a stepping stone to making something beautiful? Absolutely. Tell me what does that mean? Because that was my first record that I made with my new management and my new label, and so I had all fresh blood. And I had never been supported in the way that I, I mean, really, that I was on endless summer vacation. And that was a lot to do with J.D., who's a friend of both of ours, that he, it wasn't just about what he was doing, but what he was not doing and what he was allowing me to do. And I, just the conversations to, like, to be

able to talk to your manager about music, like, I didn't even know that was a thing. That was so nice. to like be able to call my label and talk about the songs. Like that was just, and so I think for endless summer vacation, it's really grounded in the music. And then taking songs like Wild Card, which I had written as something totally different. But I then kind of wanted it to have this like, like if Radiohead was gay, that was my inst.

That was like my, that was the prompt to Tom Harpoon. Can you make, his name is not Tom Harpoon, by the way. I only call him Tom Harpoon. It's kid Harpoon and his name is Tom. Yes. But I call him Tom Harpoon. That's funny. It's like Bellamins.

What the fuck? Belmolman. I don't fucking know. Bemelmans. It's Tom Harpoon. It's always going to be done. I like Wildcard. Just made me feel sorry for you.

Like it's really hard. I love Wild Card. And I had a version that was, then we can say goodbye. That was kind of a reference was like that. And I had it like very kind of 1950s. And then I was listening to Radiohead. And I was like, I wish I love Radiohead so much. But I love like gay music.

music so much. What if I could combine the two? So that was my attempt to do like, yeah. Did used to be young get eaten by flowers? That's because I used to be young. I feel like used to be young is an important song to understand you. Used to be young is an important song to understand me, but I think that the mistake was a lot like slide away where used to be young should have been on in the summer vacation, which it was meant to. That was one of those like marketing strategies where like they kind of knew. that flowers was going to be so big that they didn't want to put, which I'm like,

okay, so we're like not going to put one of the bigger songs on the album because I never understand all the marketing. I'm like, let's, Adam Levine and I wrote a song at the voice called Let's make something easy real hard. And that's like the music industry's favorite thing to do.

It's like, let's take this song that's like super easy. That would be like a great track too. And then let's save it for a fucking year to the point where like you're in this weird in-between cycle where no one really cares because you're like in this weird, middle ground. So basically used to be young, I think is the slide away of in the summer vacation

because it wasn't put on the EP and it wasn't put on the album. And it should have been because in context of the album, it made a lot of sense, but I had already been to moved on for it to sit in the middle because the song is good, but it's like better when it's in context. It's there now. And the production is my favorite part. I have an instrumental version that I listen to all the time because me and Sean did that song together. You're giving people too many reasons to hack into your phone. I know. And Nathan's like staring at your cell phone on the table. Lots of shit on here.

The Grammy's performance of flowers with all the ad libs was that spontaneous? Started to cry, then remembered, I just won my first score. It had to be because I had no idea that I was going to win because I've never won before. So I had no fucking reason to think I was going to now. You know, so I was just like, damn, I actually got a Grammy. Cool. That was it. And you're just totally.

Yeah, of course. That makes sense because you referenced the win, so you couldn't have. I had no idea. just were totally feeling yourself. I was just feeling myself. I felt good. And you know, I was actually really,

really nervous. So I just, like, I think I overcompensated for my nerves. So just like, I'm the most confident person in the entire universe because I'm an extremist.

So I'm like, I can't just, like, go up and just, like, do a performance now that I'm nervous as hell. I have to just completely go in there and, like, look Oprah dead in the eyes

and sing this burst to her. And that's what I did. You did. But I did. But I did. All right, let's go something. beautiful. Let's do it. You've talked to yourself out of this album, I'm sure, but I'm so curious about,

you know, I thought about what you did with Dead Pets as being actually really bold and a move that whether you intended it to be or not was an artist empowerment move. Like, fuck it, I'm putting it out, I'm putting it out in a different way, however I want. When I heard about the visual component, I thought, oh, wow, she's thinking about what an album is, right? You've watched 13 in the last 16 album of the year nominees be female pop stars. You've probably been standing looking for what you're is how you get back in. What's the reading the room? The hard part for me is I have no idea what's going on because I've said it before. I'm like a generational inherited narcissist. So I wish I was that good. I wish I looked at what other people were doing. It was like, ooh, I should slide in there.

I have no idea what anyone's doing but me. Fair enough. But what you are doing is putting out an album with a huge visual component. And what I want to know is why you didn't put them out together. Can they be separated to fully appreciate what you made? The visual and the album. The visual and the album. Because for a while, I thought she's sort of reinventing what an album is and making it visual in this era of creators. Well, so this is kind of the reason. And I'm not a medically diagnosed narcissist. It's just a good punch. But I think about what I'm up to. Can you be medically diagnosed? Yeah. You can and people, people diagnose way too many people with. That is a real diagnosis. It used to just be like, you're an asshole, you're a narcissist. But now it's like, you like,

you like, you leave a building and you're like, sorry. Sorry, I'm like a medical. Well, you're not sorry. They do blood work for narcissism. Yeah, I think you have to scan your brain. brain and probably your parent or wherever it came from. But anyway, the question was... Why not together? Huh? Why aren't these being put out together? You tell me, because I would have preferred for them to be together.

Again, this is like, this is somewhere else outside of my pay grade, but that I basically got to make the thing that I wanted to make. And then how it ends up getting seen and experienced, I allow those that have, you know, I've got a pretty good amount of experience under my belt. But there's certain people that make films, and there's certain people that make music, and I let the people that are making music and making films kind of help determine what are the best ways, too. So making a film is much different than making music, which I learned on this. And the way that this whole thing started was by I actually had the film component first because I watched Mandy by Panos Cosmodos, and it's one of my favorite movies of all time. And I reached out to him about wanting to make Mandy the musical.

And it turned very quickly into, cool idea. What are you up to? Basically, no. Wow, that's a great idea. Anything else? Something different? Something else? Which I still think, Mandy the musical would be sick.

Because so much of the music is such an important part of that movie. Yeah, that would be cool. He made it off of a playlist. That's how he wrote the movie. It would be cool. So, Panos, you know, I wanted to work with him. I knew I wanted to work with him. And that's kind of how it all really started.

I had this, like, beginning of an idea. And then I had, you know, really when you're thinking about, I think, two of the best right now doing what they do. It's Panos as a visionary. and it's Sean Everett as like a matter. Literally, he's the master of sound. So I had these two best of the best forces, and they're very similar in the way that they work and the way that they create and like just,

I've never had someone so detailed in a sonic process. That's why my vocal sounds so good. Because, again, it's not what he did. It's what he didn't do, but it's just the actual recording process itself. And to answer your question of why they're divided is because the music industry, what I like about music,

and not the industry, but what I like about it, is that if you want to write a song, I could do it right now. Yeah. We can do it any time. Like, I could just use this and we can, something can happen and we can write a song at any time. Movies, you can do the same thing, but it takes a lot more money to get it made. Because, like we said, about, you know, someone with her trombone.

I've always got my voice. So I can always write a song and I can always press record. I mean, I could release a voice memo on SoundCloud tonight. Yeah. But you can't make movies quite as easily as you can music. It takes a lot more people and things. And so I think the film element is what actually added so much pressure to something beautiful because it's the thing of like we couldn't put the album out on June or we couldn't put the film out on June X because a big Marvel movie comes out. And so all the theaters are actually booked in years in advance because Captain America is way more organized than me like writing songs on my phone.

And they've had this booked for like five years. So it was really hard to actually get. There's always these annoying technicalities. One day we should do another episode where I just tell you all the annoying technicalities that have gotten... Got in the way of your artistic vision? Every single memo. Every single memo where I'm like, oh, this would be so cool. Like everyone's going to experience the album in the movie at the same time.

And they're like, well, women from the age of 24 to 34 don't see movies on a Wednesday. That was a real thing that I got. I'm like, they're kind of wrong. When are you going to unencumber yourself? Movies on a Wednesday? See, I don't see movies on a Wednesday. Because I know that I am like, I'm such a, I like, have to sleep. and, like, I'm doing things during the day.

So to get me to a movie at 8 o'clock, I'm going to be asleep by 8.30. And, like, I can't do it. So you got to take me to one on, like, a Saturday where I can go at 3 p.m. Yep. Okay. You like a Saturday matinee. I like a Saturday maddenay all day long because I will go to sleep. I've never seen any movie in the theater because I've fallen asleep every single time. You can't do the dark.

No. I am very dark sensitive when I sleep. I pass out. Yeah. I went and saw The Purge with actually Mike Will and, like, the race-sremmered guys. And I try to do that. I tried to do that thing where I woke up and I was like, that was so cool. And they were like, no.

No. You didn't see any of that movie. You didn't see any of that. You didn't see any of it. You know, and they were like, what's your favorite part? And I was like, oh, yeah, where everybody died. But I also, this was like, again, a different time in life, had a whole Keefe blunt. They turned the life off. Yeah, no, you never had a chance.

I was down. But anyways, that's why my movie is playing like a month after my release. And then the reason that the international date is different is because we also are doing subtitles because it's an international release, and that takes like two weeks longer. So I wish I had this reason of like, well, I wanted to distant from the music to give you a moment to like, it's always this weird technical things that then can honestly end up being blessings because I'm glad that people will know the music. Yeah.

Yeah. To sing along. It's a little bit more of that wicked experience. Yeah. Fair. I loved that you referenced that. Wicked. And said that people should dance and if people get mad about it.

Well, I know that people who were annoyed at Wicked for singing along. I don't think anybody actually was. That's no. A couple bitchy queens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the people who were actually there were having a nice time. We're having a great time because everyone was singing, and I was actually really excited to do.

I am glad I do think it was a blessing in disguise that the movie is separated from the album because it gives people a couple weeks to learn the songs and fall in love with it. I just know the interludes are going to be cooler on the movie. They are cooler on the movie. Yeah. I know. The very, like, noir interlude one is a bit like, I don't know what this is going to be, but it's one of my favorite visuals.

Yeah. I was telling Nathan that I heard Hall of Fame at SoulCycle on Saturday. name? What? And it really hit. Sick. It really hit. That was a song that was originally my boyfriend's in a band called Lily with two eyes.

I always say because they refused to make it something that people could buy. He's Max with two X's. Yeah, exactly. So he had to have it. He is truly Max with two X's. And it was a Lily song. And they didn't end up using it for the album, which if you hear the version, it was originally titled Gabagool.

And they were working on it and they didn't end up using it for the album, which I, when Max, he wrote it. And when he was writing it, he wrote it in our airstream. and I came in, heard it and said, ooh, could I have that one? You have plenty of Lily songs. He goes, no. So he told me no.

So I waited for you. He was like, this one's a Lily one. Sorry. I was like, okay. And then he was like, and you take every song that I ever write and make it completely unrecognizable, which is true.

That's what you get for dating a punk drummer. Yeah, he wouldn't give me the fucking song. So a year later, when his band they were putting together their album, I realized that Gabagul was nowhere to be found. I made it. So I took it. I was like, remember that song?

I want it. It's mine now. And so then I put Britney Howard on it. made it gay as fuck. And then he was like, this is why I didn't give it to you because this is completely unrecognizable. So this album like blossoms as it goes

into this European club dance record that like Pino is holding down the base the whole time. I think he's like the MVP of this record. He is. Like he just... I'm so glad you heard that. He integrates 70s, 80s,

your stuff from the 2000s and tens, but it still sounds so fresh. He is unbelievable. And as the more structured songs give way to this like Berlin club gay club thing. How, is that native to you? Did you do some exploration of that in the same way you did hip hop? Like, tell me about that. No, that is something that's, you know, what I say about something beautiful, the thing that I love about this album the most is an album that I would listen to. Yeah.

And like, if you would go into my Spotify of my raptor, what I'm listening to right now, that's where it kind of lives. Like right now, my favorite album is pirouette, which is model actress, which is Cole who wrote on Prelude, which is very industrial, dark, like European. East German-ass shit. Yeah, exactly. And that's my Max's favorite place to play. Their band does very well in that kind of, like, zone. And so over the last couple of years with me and Max,

I've definitely gotten, I've always really kind of like gravitated to that, more the culture of what that is, you know, especially with the fashion of like Lee Bowery and club kids and like gelled up orange hair and stack shoes and whatever. But what I really like about this new, like, generation, the way that they don't like look as punk. You know, they just like kind of are punk. Like, it's more like an essence of the music.

Sure. So it's very, it's like almost like very, you would never assume you would like that these guys are in these punk bands. And I like that because I think it's so far from the rue of it all, which as like a female pop star, it's so much about the drag. Like for Plastic Hearts, it really wasn't a rock album, but I was rock presenting. Yeah.

And what I like about the new kind of punk culture of this like, the way that the youth is wearing it and doing it is it's not really about the show, which I think is so kind of healing for me because of how much of my career has been about the physical presentation of the music.

These guys are like, they're just nice guys that make punk music. And it's a black trouser and a white taintop. And a white taintop. And that's it. And they're like very like prepy core. Yeah. They wear crop tops.

And they're like going to these places where like I feel like you would have gotten stabbed if you would have wore that in the pop club back in the day. But now it's like, they're just like, and they're also really nice and they're all like have healthy relationships. And I'm like, this is so like not my punk. This is what I grew up with. And no one takes drugs.

Like none of the kids like really take drugs anymore. Is it? I think it's good. I don't know. The music all of a sudden I'm like, it's interesting because it's got this. You know what? It is helpful because what it is is it's not about that culture anymore. It really is like focused on the music.

Now, I think if you still go to the German. You'll find a lot. You're going to find it. But for the actual process of making the music, it's really kind of restored my faith. And, like, it's not about the persona. It's not, because I've also wondered, like, how many of these guys. Like, I sat next to when I was doing plastic cards and I took a flight and I sat with Billy Idol. And he was reading, like, Rolling Stone magazine.

And it was like a Bowie issue. And I sat with them and I was like, first of all, I was like, what's the worst thing that, like, Rolling Stone has ever said about you? And he was, you know, a ton of things. Always, Fleetwood Macs had the same stories where they were like, we can't wait for this genre to die. Right. This isn't the worst genre ever. Sure. But, you know, I was asking him about, you know, these Bowie stories.

And he said that he missed out on doing a track with Bowie because he zonked out on drugs that night. And he was supposed to be on Let's Dance. And he couldn't cut it because he was too high. Holy shit. Yeah, he was like, you know, like Nile came up and was like, do you want to be on a Bowie song? And he was too zonked out to record it. Wow. And that to me, knowing that those kind of misopportunities aren't going to happen from me or from this next generation of music.

Because it really is this like, it must be the phone. I think because there's like a level of productivity or something. Like I think it must have something to do with the fact that like there doesn't have to be this like torturous journey to create a song. It's like we're all together and we all have our laptop and we'll just press play. There's not this studio culture of like 10 drug addicts getting together in a room until 4 o'clock in the morning to, you know, do this. Maybe social media is the drug now. I think it is. That's the high.

Yeah. Can we ask you about the clothes before we wrap up? What was it like to get to dive into the Mugler archive? All of this has been such an extension of the music. And they've been talking and feeding into one another. So I'll know, like on Prelude, I knew that I was going to wear that Terry Mugler archival piece. So I actually brought, you know, the images and the fabrics to Sean and was like, make it sound like this. And that's how those chimes and what the Luz happened.

And that's why Sean Everett was such an important and valuable piece at this whole thing, because that's really, he has such an incredible sense of personal style himself, and he really understands material. So, like, he will be recording your vocal while he's wearing a latex cape. And one time someone had some questions about, like, some S&M, like, questions, and we all looked at him and asked. And he goes, why are you asking me? Meanwhile, he had a latex body suit with nipple rings on top. And we were like, because you look like you could be hung from the ceiling right now. And he was like fully wearing stacked crocs. Like he looked like he was ready to go to these German gay rays we're talking about.

So he does understands fashion in such a way that I feel like the music and the fashion. It's like they're both vehicles for each other. You know, they're taking you on the ride. Is there anything we haven't seen if we haven't seen the full visuals that you're just like, holy shit. All of act two. So act one has been released and that's all the way up until easy lover. With some interludes missing, the interlude, the interlude. the interlude is missing.

And then Act 2 is exclusive to theaters and we'll eventually be on streaming and everyone can watch it on their phones in bed and eat Chinese food by they watch. But for a little while, I didn't want that to be the first experience. Because I know I'd crush it. Like someone's like, you know, like someone that I love.

Like, you know, another actress or someone will be like, oh, could you watch my new movie? And tell them what you think. And then I'm the first one to be like, sure, I'll watch it. And I'm like kind of watching it. But I'm also like... Yeah, but you're responding to an email. Right.

You're looking at like... 100%. Looking at like old Princess Diane. like what she wore on a boat. So next time I'm on a boat, I know what I need to bring. And it's like, how did you like the movie? And it's like all I can imagine is like why I was looking at Princess Diana's flip-flops. Like that is what it is.

And then I'll also be like, I'm going to go make a snack. And then I'm going to whatever. And then that's the way we watch movies now. And that I didn't want to me myself. I wanted people to have to watch. You didn't want to Mila yourself. Yeah, I'm the worst. Like I have like whatever this deficiency is of like staying on track, movies, linear storytelling, not happening.

So I always am doing a thousand things at one second, and I wanted people to have to pay attention. So in the theater, no chicken jockey. You guys know about chicken jockey? I don't know about chicken jockey. What about the Jack? What's a chicken jockey? Jack Black's Minecraft movie where, like, it became this thing where, like, kids on TikTok. Every time he says chicken jockey, you had to, like, throw shit on the scream and it, like, ended up going to, like, mayhem.

I think your fan base might find a way to do something. No, they're definitely going to be a thing. I've heard that it's going to be the walk of fame knee because I hurt my knee on the street. And, like, I heard that that's going to be my chicken jockey. Contracted diseases. Yes. Yeah, my chicken jockey is a contracted disease. Yeah.

And that is, oh, into this beautiful deep dive into this discography that I got to revisit with you guys, and it was really nice to do that. We are really happy that you made a great album because the end of this journey would have sucked if you hadn't. If you're like, uh-oh, and it all led to here. Thank you for making something that we were excited about. Good thing we're not stopping on one of three she is coming APs that are mid. We're never going to see the other two, right? I mean, I think my fans have now put them on YouTube, but no, because,

they don't stand the test of time because they all my music at some point I think something beautiful I think dead pads I think bangers I think but even bangers really encapsulates like a time you know so I feel like it's a little bit hard to put out songs from 2012 now and for them to feel super fresh because everybody levels up thank you mylie thank you this was really fun fun thank you okay I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with Miley Cyrus this has been every single album I'm nora Princeati. As always, he's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next week.