Every Single Album - 'The Show' | Every Single Album: Niall Horan

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard discuss 'The Show,' the latest album from Niall Horan. They talk about the lingering One Direction presence in his music (1:00), the surprisingly soulful song "You Could Start a Cult" (27:00), and what songs they might want to cut from this album (36:48). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it. Really since 2017, it started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene, who won the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best. But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify for free, by the way. So make sure to follow the rewatchables on Spotify. Hello and welcome to every single album, a special edition.

I'm Nora Princeati and I'm here with Nathan Hubbard to talk about one of our all-time faves. And one of the very few special guests in every single album history, who is Nile Horan because we're going to spend today breaking down his new album, the show. Nathan, are you excited? I'm very excited for the show. This is our first, you know, post. guest interview review of an album. So we're trying to make sure that his charmingness, his dashing handsomeness doesn't impact our review of this brand new album. Same time. This one's going to be great. Do you think you've succeeded in that? I don't know. I still feel a little

charmed by that lepricon. Let's see if I'm able to shake off the spell. Let's be real. I mean, you were so in the bag after he came on. I know you're, I've literally never once in my life denied this, but I think you are using the fact that that is true of me to deflect how true it is of you as well. Well, we'll see. Let's get into the show. You're the podcaster who cried, I'm not the most in the bag for Nile on my podcast. I mean, you know, Nile really continues to be the guy who does the work. isn't he, Nora. And it's one of the things that's hard to not love about him. I come out of where we are still feeling like this is the guy carrying the torch for the One Direction fan base. Everyone else is off doing like fully solo things. And this is a solo album to be sure. But the show, he's working with

some of the guys that we've seen before show up who wrote a ton of the songs that we know and love across the 1D catalog. He's out sort of the most publicly facing guy. He's doing the TV shows. He's doing the bits on late night TV. He's sort of still the... He's doing every single album. He's doing every single album.

He's still sort of the puppet who goes out and does the work. In the best possible way, he seems to love it. What we sort of know coming out of listening to this album many, many times at this point, is that he went through it. I mean, that he released an album that we absolutely adore called Heartbreak Weather. That came out basically the day the world shut down. And it just never got to see the light of day.

And it is, in my opinion, a really terrific album that matters from top to bottom that just is one of the most under a pre-referral. songs from quarantine. And he has been living with that for a couple of years. And I think it's been eating at him. I know it's been eating at his team. And so it's very interesting to see the first bit of work

that they tried to put out to follow it up, knowing, I think, somewhere in their heart of hearts that some of their, if not their best work did not get the light that it deserved. Well, so we'll go through the songs and go through the categories, but just like big picture, how do you think that that represented itself? Because I agree.

I mean, it's certainly a poppier album. Like, I think the first two are a little bit more in the singer-songwriter almost like, Folky is too strong, but just a dude with a guitar strumming and saying some stuff. Tradition. Whereas, you know, there are some songs. on the show that are bangers. They're like big sing-along pop songs. And I guess that is how I hear that,

that impulse translate. Is that how you hear? Do you mean something else by that? No, I think instead of running away from one direction, which all of his other former bandmates did, I think on this album, he very much runs toward one direction.

And I'm grateful for that, and I appreciate it. I also think, as we go through some of these songs, that there are some elements of, in particular, Harry's stuff that seem to have woven their way into these songs. And we know about the process that these guys go. This is a communal, almost songwriting camp process that they go through,

that they feel is unique. It's different than what Max Martin does. It's different than what a number, you know, Jack Antonoff does, they go through a process of really group collaboration on songs, which, by the way, is why you get six songwriters on you should start a cult. You could start a cult. I mean, it's just like, you should start a cult is a different song. Yeah. Oh, I follow. You till there's no tomorrow. Oh, that's a different song. That's, I sing that to you a lot. But the, um, the process is.

something, you know, that matters here. And it feels like these guys take an idea. And I think historically, they've been sort of unabashed in the way in which they'll sometimes pilfer little bits from songs. We, we've documented in great detail over hours and hours and hours on every single album, how there are 80s songs that weave their way through a lot of the one direction catalog, or at least little bits here and there. And I think we hear some of that on this album. But I think undeniably, Nile Horn at this moment in time is making this album when it's happening, I'm saying. Not this very one. But as he began to record this album, there was a huge elephant in the room.

And his name was Harry Stiles. And there just is no denying that your old bandmate was at that moment in time, the guy who had pierced through pop culture, had the album that everyone was listening to, had the tour that everyone was dying to go see was in movies, was in page six, was just in the moment. Oh, boy, was he? Yeah, was just in the moment.

And it is impossible for that shadow to not creep over and block some of the daylight in the studio. And so it's interesting to see the output from a group of people who had worked with Harry Styles before around him creatively, from himself, and seeing what he probably embraced, a few little things they might have slid under the door without him even noticing,

and himself what the output ended up being in the show. So, okay, hold some of that, hold some of that for a little bit. And I want you to really promise me that you'll do that because I want us to talk about it as we go through it, but I really want to hear where you think that he's running toward Harry a little bit because that is the reaction to this album

that I've heard from a couple corners. And I kind of get it. And I definitely get it in the sense of like his own lived experience of having an album he worked so hard to create come out at the worst possible moment, right? And like to see sort of see Harry's star where it is and to be fighting really hard to have, Heartbreak Weather have the impact

that it deserves to have. So I get that in the like, oh man, I'm thinking about what I want and what he has and whatever. And I hear that in some of the songs. But when I go through the songs where I can hear a little bit of Harry, when I really think about it,

what I hear more than Harry's house is one D. It's one direction. It's four and it's made in the AM. So I think that's an interesting thing to talk about because it's very valid in some ways. And then some ways I'm just sort of like, no, like,

it's just old one direction. If it's anything from the past, it's old one direction stuff more than it's, and like maybe that illustrates to us that Harry's leaning on that more than we sort of initially realized. So I'm excited to have that that convo, but maybe we should just get started. Yeah, we'll go through it. I think I've just decided that I'm going to misname you could start a call as many times as I can on this podcast. You should be a cult. You are a cult.

You are in a cult? Yeah, you are in a cult. Yeah, you are in a cult. So we're going to work our way through that. But yeah, I think you've brought the right point, which is, is it Harry? Is it 1D? Is this solo Nile? But let's dive in.

Okay. So biggest hit is our first category. And disclaimer, this album came out, as we're recording this, we're recording this on June 19th. The album came out 10 days ago. So we'll have to see in some cases sort of what the chart performance metrics end up saying. It debuted at number one in the UK in Australia and a bunch of countries. Number two in the U.S., because no one can get rid of Morgan Wallen except for Taylor Swift. Heaven so far.

And sometimes Morgan Wallen can get rid of Morgan Wall. That's actually very true. he's the biggest threat to Morgan Wallen. That's funny. I can't remember everything we said, but we said it all. Heaven said the biggest chart impact of a single so far. But since that's had a little bit more run, I think the question here is like, are there any other songs on this album that you think are going to pop? and that are going to have a big moment over the summer

that are going to be fan favorites where there's going to be something that's going to drive them up the charts. I really love Meltdown. Meltdown feels like the One Direction hit song that we never got. I love the call-in response bridge. I definitely think there was some.

concern about does this sound like as it was? But I really want to see if Meltdown can make its way through the summer. So it's a really good example. Like this whole album, there are so many songs, and this is such a Nile thing, where it's hard to listen to this album and go, oh my God, here's this life-changing new idea that's going to influence pop musicians all over the world and like everything has changed. There's a new Nile album. But every one of these songs, like I really think every, if it's not everyone, it's like all but

one or two. Every single one of these things is more complicated than initially meets the ear. Yes. It's more layered, is more nuanced, is more sophisticated, is more exciting, is more exciting on the 20th listen than it almost feels like it has has any right to be. because sometimes you hear, and like meltdown to me is a really, really good example of that, where you hear a fun call-in response, kind of one-direction-y, kind of as it was-y pop song. But then every single time you listen, and this is another one of like our favorite thing is to tell people to get good headphones,

the manipulation of the backing vocals, the little like vocoder or whatever thing it is, layering that comes through is just really, really, really fun. sleep is so thin out of habit hard to tell the real from the dreams you imagine I'm with you the only thing is that song

was the second single and it's had a little bit of a chance and it seems like people love it but if one of these it's gonna peak over heaven yeah yeah it just it's yeah

it's deserving to me but I honestly think that if that were going to happen it would have happened do you feel the chorus on this one like this feels like the first time

we've gotten a really big one direction chorus from Nile? So I, and I think this is more personal preference. I do get it. I feel the chorus. I really like the chorus. I really like this song. Yeah. I get, for instance, the Save My Life chorus more than this chorus. Okay. I get a little bit just because I'm, I'm just the sucker for like, bigger is better. And Meltdown is a very poppy song. It's a very singable song. But it's not quite as like in your face bright, poppy, exciting.

And I wonder if one of these songs is going to have a big moment, if it's going to come from what it sounds like live and being toured. Because if something's really going to jump out of it. at people. I wonder if it will come like really from the fan base and if something will get started because people will love what something sounds like on stage. And that

could be one. The other one that struck me is if you leave me has a little bit of a never enough thing going on in it to me just with the way that the baseline sounds. And there's

a New York MAG interview that he did somewhat recently where he went on this whole thing about like, I wish we'd done never enough live. It's like one of my favorite songs. I really wanted to perform it. And so I haven't seen a ton. I know he's, Niles started playing festivals in Europe and has started to do some of this stuff live.

I haven't seen a ton of it yet. Like it hasn't gotten into my TikTok algorithm yet. I'm really curious to see what that looks like, what that sounds like. Yeah. Because I think that's what I'll be watching for is just, is there something that's part of the set list? that's really cool that gets people excited where there's a little bit of a grassroots thing that happens.

Yeah. Well, Karma on the latest Taylor album has sort of become that kind of a song where there were some others that felt like hits, but she really has turned that through the live performance into something bigger. I will die on the hill that the second I heard karma. I was like, this is a huge song. No, you did. You did. You were on that the first day.

And I don't think that I was alone in that. I just think you have to be a, weirdo. Yeah. So let's talk about a couple of the songs that you just put forth. So save my life. It bothered me for a little while because I was listening and listening and listening. And at first I was like, dude, this is like basically an 80s TV show theme song. Like this would be the theme song for the reboot of Beverly Hills 90210. Like with the like freeze frame on the characters in like holding their finger up with some like goofy ass grin kind of shit. And then like the sick sax solo that comes out of nowhere.

Have you seen that video of the guy who just goes into random places and plays the careless whisper sax solo thing? Like, that's what this feels like. It's like that guy just bust through the door. I was thinking of something else. Okay, never mind. That sounds cool, though. Whatever.

The sax solo is totally out of nowhere. But here's the thing. This song is, it's not. living if it's not with you by the 1975. Well, it's also kind of looking for somebody to love by the 1975. Yeah. But it's really, go back and listen to those two songs. This song, it feels like in the songwriter camp, they said, let's start by slightly

changing the guitar part in It's Not Living. And let's see how it goes. It's a little bit frustrating. It's cool. And I love the song. I really do. I'm into it either way. Bring me all of the 80s synth pop that you can possibly get Nile Horan to sing, but you can feel the roots of it. If you leave me, I mean, if you leave me, you tell me, it sort of does some of the same things for me, except that this has a little bit

of the way you make me feel, like the Michael Jackson bass and rhythm to it. But then he starts singing like the weekend. And it's like, is Lily Rose Depp going to jump out and smoke 12 cigarettes before this song is over? And then, but then it is gross. But then it has some Stockholm syndrome vibes, doesn't it? Just that sort of thumping underneath. This one felt like sort of a mashup of Stockholm syndrome the weekend and a little bit of

the way you make me feel. Well, and I got a little bit of the like the what a feeling vibe. The almost meltdown actually has a tiny bit of that too. There's like that sort of spacey, you know, light psychedelic thing that One Direction did a fair bit of tour in the last two albums. I think comes through a lot in that. I don't think if you leave me doesn't give me any sort of like, oh, this is literally that song. You have to kind of piece together.

Like I get a little bit of that never enough. baseline thing, but then just the whole vibe of it comes from a lot of those. Do you hear the weekend and the vocal? I guess, just kind of. The thing is that I was listening to so many of these songs through the framework of like, one day. What do I get that does harken back to a one direction moment? So I, like, I know what you're talking about, but when I hear that, I go, oh, if this was a one direction song, this is the falsetto part that Zane would come in on and do that. And then they would be like, you know, trading lines on the bridge and it would be super fun. I am into this song. I'm very into this song. I also think it's fun that this song follows heaven.

Yes. There's just a little narrative twist there. Like, I don't think that's an accident. Again, there's just, there's a little more than meets the eye. And I am, I am appreciative of it. What were we talking about? The biggest song is what we were talking about. Like, what's the biggest hit? And right now, I think we landed on its heaven unless meltdown gets legs or save my life or if you leave me sort of gets pushed forward. Or something weird happens. Yeah, by the fan base. Ground up happens.

But so talk to me about heaven. How do you feel about heaven? Great groove. Great groove. Super juicy. Love, like, the little walkdown, really, really fun. Let's not keep complicated. Let's just enjoy.

But not only is it juicy, Nora. It's the start of grape juice. All right. I'm going to have trouble in hearing that. You got to go back and listen to this. That's a fair one. But you know what? Why did they do this to it? Dang, ding, ding, ding.

Yeah. Do you think that's a little bit like when someone says don't think of a pink elephant and then you think of a pink elephant? It's like, let's not make a hairy style song. Oh, shit. We did the baseline from grape juice. Yes, I think it is, it is unless, to your point, there was some real intention and depth and thought here.

And it was part of almost their reaction to that album by starting with a little nugget and then taking the team that Harry used to work with and evolving it into a different direction. I just don't know how you can't push play on heaven and play on grape juice and not go, yeah. Okay. And also, Harry Stiles and Nile Horan have a fair bit in common, including the people who helped Nile and worked with Nile on a lot of these songs. Like, it's not, you know, a strawberry and a blueberry have a little bit more in common than a, you know, a banana and a steak. What is this fruit metaphor? I don't know.

I don't know where that came from. Holy moly. Oh, it's grape juice, watermelon sugar. You know what I mean. They're from the same... It's, you know, a tabby cat and a lion. We're not... This has not worked.

The metaphor is not working. But Harry Sons and Nile Horan are both men of roughly the same age who grew up together as part of a very famous band. They both... I don't know. They like... Women in the UK, like, I don't know, but they have a lot in common. It's not a shock that they would write somewhat similar songs.

You asked how I feel about heaven. I really like heaven. I am, maybe it's just because I've known them for longer. I've heard them more times. I am more grabbed by a lot of the deep cuts here than I am by the singles. It's not that I don't like the singles. It's just that it's, they're not, they're not necessarily my favorites. and then they probably lose out a tad of just like, you know, to me, must be love.

I love, I really love that song and it feels like such a discovery is the last song on the album. And I might be living a little bit in a place of like, this is just fun and new. But to me right now, this album is stacking up as a very, very consistent, really impressive collection of songs. and I think this is for the better, more so than, oh man, they really nailed the picks on the singles, but then it thins out. Like, that's not my experience with this at all. All right.

Well, I want you to put a pin in that. Okay, because you gave a, you made a weird sound when I talked about Must Be Love. So your snark is noted. Let's talk about it. Yeah, we have plenty of vehicles to discuss this in the course of our structure in every single album. And so it's probably time to move on to Best Song.

I mean, I'll let you say it unless you want me say it. So you definitely have, you should, could, you shoulda, coulda woulda start a cult. You should eat a cult. You should be a cult. You should be a cult. You could start a cult. You could start a cult. You see. Anywhere you go, I'll be. You would. You would three a cult. You could start a cult for me is the best song in this album. I love the crickets or night creatures, some sort of frogs in the background that we're hearing. Darling, I will give up everything. It is the easiest and worst harmonica solo of all time. I can't even believe that that was the harmonica solo,

but at least a very small child could play it on their own. I don't understand why there are a sick song on an acoustic ballad, but I do believe that this is the best representation of Nile's voice that's ever been put to tape. I think it is stunning. Oh my gosh. He's singing so well. I love this song. It just moves me. Yeah, this song is a flex. This song, like, and again, I am me, that is my crossed bear and I want to listen to like sparkly pop songs. So, am I going to listen to this more than any other song in this album? Maybe not. But this This song is an absolute flex.

By the way, if this category were called, which song on this album is Harry Styles the most jealous of? This is also definitely the winner. One thousand percent great point. 100 million thousand percent. Not that that's the point, right? But true. It is so cool to hear a song that has like a bit of darkness to it from, you know,

Mr. Chiri Nile. Absolutely. And then some of the darker harmonies match that theme and are really, really satisfying. This is an amazing song. I'm very proud of him. We talked a little at the top about the thing where you're just, it's sort of like, we want him to break through into a new level so badly. Yeah. Which by the way, is not, Nilehorn is a massively famous and successful man. Like, he's doing fine. He's doing fine. But we want, we want the recognition, especially after the last album cycle. And if there's something on this record where it's not just that thing that we want

to get more flowers of, oh my gosh, he works so hard, there's more here than meets the eye, it's more sophisticated than you realize. And he puts so much work and there's so much earnest sincerity and real value top to bottom in this. If you want something that instead of that is like, no, this is just in your face special and not everybody can do this. And it's exciting. And it makes you go, oh, I haven't heard that. Like, this is that song. Yeah. To me, it immediately goes into the pantheon with San Francisco and slow hands. And I'm not sure there's anything else that, like, rivals it.

Even though you can't remember what the name of the song is. What do you think is accomplishing the way that the vocal quality? I mean, do we think that he spent a bunch of the pandemic just like singing a the shower, working on his range, working on his tone, working on his vocals. Is it a, is it a byproduct of just getting older? Is it just that the studio guys have figured him out in some way? Like, he sounds great, on this whole, especially on the song, but on this whole record, he sounds really, really good. Yeah. Well, I think his voice has matured in a bunch of ways. And I think for a lot of the band's existence, they were covering for him in the beginning.

and I just wonder if the John Ryan's and Julian Benetta's of the world fell into, it's like the parents who can't ever adapt and evolve as their kids grow up. Maybe it took them a little while to be like, oh, I now have a full-blown adult on my hands that can do adult things and let me treat them like an adult. And Nile himself, there have not been many songs where it's just Nile in a guitar. and boy, it sure seems like that's a medium that he thrives at. That really worked. I mean, it sounds, I don't know if this is true on the whole album, but you can hear it,

I think, in science a little bit. It sounds like he's doing his own backing vocals for the most part. Maybe that's not totally consistent, but at least some of that in there is also coming from Nile. Yeah, there are a lot of different people doing background vocals on this album across the board, but Nile does a lot. And it's just, there has been this little unspoken tension with Nile Horan,

which is, is he an actual artist, or is he kind of boy band, cheery, the guy that they put out there to smile and sort of be the court jester, as it were. And I think this song, if it wasn't already completely put to bed, this song totally puts it to bed. And that's what I love about it. It's just a statement.

It's a little bit to me. I mean, I hate to do the sort of comparisons, but it's a little bit like Cherry was with Harry Stiles for me, where you're like, wow, okay, that's a real song. And that's sung in a way that is meaningful and that matters. Don't you call him what you used to? I don't know. I just was happy to have Nile come out and finally be an adult. Yeah, I mean, like when he says like baby, it's so, it's intimate.

This is an intimate. Nile. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Baby, you could start a cold. I didn't mean that in a gross way. You know that. You've curdled Nora.

Nora has fully curdled. No, I'm just, I'm proud of him. I'm proud of the man. Is there anything else that you think rivals it on this album? Not really. That's the answer. I can give you quite a few other songs that I really, really, really love. I love Save My Life.

I love Must Be Love. Those songs are not you will start a cult's equal in all those ways that we just talked about. But I think they are, they're songs that I'm extremely happy to have exist. I don't think they move the needle as much in terms of how we see him as an artist, how we will remember him in 10 years. So I definitely think that that's the nod. But for the record, there are several other songs on this album

that are very special to me and that I love very much. Yeah, I mean, I don't know when we're going to talk about. You're going to feel it coming. So just like, do your thing. No, look, I'm holding on to it. Let's just say you could start a war or two, kingdoms fighting over you.

There's something really You could start a war or two Kingdom's fighting over you There's something really There's just something That's not super new ground that's never been explored It is newer ground than

Must be love Lyrically And that's where News flash That's where I'm going to come at that one I feel like we've maybe been over That subject matter before but this one just there is

it's very hard to write a love song where you say something new and we should do a cult is a new way of talking about adulation this cult rules is a new way of sort of expressing that putting someone else on a pedestal

but as you say there it is there is a tinge of darkness and a self-awareness of giving yourself up for someone else and sort of losing yourself into someone else. And after all of the, you know, what I would say, call it never grow up, is more of that traditional like Peter Panney thing. boy meets girl, boy loves girl, crush kind of music that we sometimes got from 1D that wasn't quite as lyrically deep this one. Again, I don't need to expound any further on this song.

I love this song, it's fantastic. And for me, it does stick out from a lot of the rest of the album in the way that it presents itself lyrically. So I totally agree with you on We Are, I disagree with you in some of your counter examples. Like even never grow up is this nostalgic sing-along type song. But what it's really about is like longing and hoping and fear and sort of the worry that things won't always be like that.

And that's, I mean, we've heard songs like that before. But come on. There is a Taylor Swift song called Never Grow Up. And I can't let it go, which means you can't let it go. Someone needs to do some Jay-Z gray album and mash these up. Oh, darling, don't you ever grow up? Don't you ever grow up? Just stay this and lit up.

This is not about a parent necessarily in the same way that. I mean, maybe it is. It could be, I guess. But it's not in the same way that the Taylor song is. You can sing the chorus of Taylor's Never Grow Up over Niles never grow up the whole time. And trust me, you will want to join a cult because it will make you go completely insane

as it has been doing for me the last 10 days. You can put Niles Never Grow Up on a playlist and toss it on in the middle of having people over for dinner. And no one's going to, like, it's going to blend in with everything. If you put Never Grow Up by Taylor Swift on your playlist, don't get me wrong, song makes me weepy. but it's going to be weird. Like, it won't work.

I don't know what kind of parties you have. One's where we don't all... Well, I was going to say ones where we don't cry about our childhood, but it's happened before. I like that song. That's my point. Yeah. There's just a little Peter Panney in it.

And I don't like it. I like the song fine. I don't like the character of Nile as Peter Pan and of the general. I like more serious artist Nile, who doesn't have to always sell it, who can just do it. Yeah, I totally disagree that that's what he's doing. I feel like it's from the perspective of someone who has played that role, sort of understanding, like, there's a tie into the show, I think. It's like, life gets real at some point.

You do grow up. Like, we all know we grow up. We don't want to necessarily. Like, I get more nuanced. to that than you do. I think it's a fair criticism, but I like that song, song quite a bit.

And I do think it becomes a little bit easier to hear those things and hear those subtleties when you could start a cult exists. Like when we've had that for him, maybe it does give him a little bit more space to play around with different ways of talking about age and experience.

and maturity and whatever. I think you just love Hope We Still Drink Like We're Back in the Pub. It's cute. You're so in the bag for Nile Horan. I just, I just, I also like, I like a lot of the must-be-love lyrics. We can talk about later.

All right. We're going to have to. But you didn't acknowledge what song you would cut. Because I thought you were saying you would cut must be love, but you've said that you are hanging on to it. So what are you getting rid of? Here's my problem. There are 10 songs on this album, and it's only 30 minutes of music. Yeah, Nile already hit this category pretty hard, apparently, I think.

I mean, this is barely an album. It's an album? It's 30 minutes. I mean, so I am generally unmoved by On a Night Like Tonight Like Tonight. It just feels a little formulaic, ethereal with some minor chords, a driving bass, it's fine. It just feels like that formulaic deeper album ethereal cut that ends up on a 1D song on track like 7. And lo and behold, here it is, track 7 or track 8, right? Like, it shows up. So I just wasn't particularly moved by it. Science feels like his pandemic song. It's got some cold play green eyes in it. It just didn't grab me as like, yes, I'm gravitating to this, although I understand it was

his statement. I just didn't get deeply moved by the lyrical quality of that song. And then must be love, I'm with you. It's got a good groove. I just feel like we've been over this subject matter before, and that lyrically it felt like things that have been written about forever. And So those three songs, I didn't love the end of the album, but I am very willing to reconsider Must Be Love in particular based on your absolute like back, just head over heels falling for this song. Okay, wait. What was the first one you said? You said before Science and Must Be Love. What was the third one that you said that maybe you could part with? On Night Like Tonight. Oh, yeah. Okay. So let's talk about that first. I like that song. quite a bit, actually. Now, I also love the song, Hey Angel by One Direction.

So, yeah. That's sort of where we are with that. And it is a little bit lyrically repetitive. I would not cut it. I'm very happy to have two versions of Hey Angel exist in the world. So I'm good with that. I'm with you. For me, it's science.

And that is the one. And it seems like you and I might differ in a couple other cases on which of the lyrics that at least refer to platitudes to cliches, because there are quite a few of them on here. But I think in most cases, he does enough to flip it on its head. Like the God only knows turning into the heaven won't be the same. Like, that's fun to me. There's a little something there.

It's clever. I'm not saying that, you know, that's rising to the level of, you could start a cult, I think, being this really, really cool accomplishment in particular because, look, we've talked a lot as a society about cults over the last few years and, like, cultish behavior

and unhealthy social groupings and all of that stuff. The nexium doc. Totally. Like, you think about pandemic-era discourse. The stuff we were all watching on Netflix. What, like... We need to get out of this cult

is the name of this song. that was a thing that, like, everybody was talking about, but he's found this way of incorporating that discourse into his art in a way that's fresh and creative and new and exciting. And that is the greatest accomplishment of this album, I think, to me. I'm not saying... But science didn't do it for you? Yeah.

Science is the biggest swing. Yeah. I think it missed. It's just... science, Nora. It just didn't quite, I just didn't quite get it. Don't let it scare you.

I think it, I think it just, it's just science. Yeah. I missed it. I missed it. Okay. As a sort of bastardized

version of green eyes, I'm okay with it. It just didn't, as, if we're right about what that subject matter is intended to be, and sort of trying to help somebody

through the fears of isolation and of, you know, getting sick in the pandemic, it just, it was, it's one step removed from like really packing a punch for me. Yeah, truly shout at Tim for going for it. I wonder, I would really love to know if he, like, does he think about you could start a cult in that way as something that that channeled some of the discourse and, and the culture of what we all spent a lot of time indoors thinking about during that time when he was starting to write a lot of this stuff. I wonder if he thinks about that song sort of in this way,

because to me, that accomplishes quite a bit of what I think is trying to happen in science. It just doesn't totally land for me. So I feel a little bit like that about the show. I'm interested to hear what you think of the show. It just seems to me like it's a song that wants to soar, and it doesn't quite get there for me. Like some of the lyrics in the show feel a little bit trite to me. I want it to be like a moment,

but it didn't feel to me like it's a big moment. But maybe you got something out of it, I didn't. I like the song. I'm to a degree with you in the sense that I guess I sort of loop that in with the singles because it's the title track of I am just as grabbed by several of the deep cuts, which he's barely talked about and all of that as I am by the songs that it seems like they wanted to put some weight behind. I think you hear, it does touch me to that I think he channeled a lot of, you know,

coming off of heartbreak weather, dealing with all of that, the processing of all of those feelings does come through to me in that song. There's something that I think I like about it that I wonder if it was on purpose or not, which is just that the key change really catches me by surprise every time.

It's not, you know, there's some, sometimes that happens in a song and it has been telegraphed from, like a love-on-top thing where you know every time that it's coming, that it's coming. And you're like geared up for it. You're braced for it. You're ready for it.

This one, just all of a sudden, with absolutely no warning. And it would really tickle me if we ever found out that that was purposeful because it's a little bit of the experience of like, oh shit, there's a global pandemic. I don't know if that's what happened there. I'm grabbed by the melody. I enjoy what the song sounds like. I, like you probably don't find a differentiator that makes it like where I really get

other than the story behind it, why this is sort of the statement he wants to make about what this album is. Right. That's it for me. I just didn't find the depth and the meaning in the words to really be the thing. But part of me also just keeps wanting to fast forward

to you should fart a cult. Hold that thought for when we when we do peak Nile. But we're going to talk about most important collaborators first. But I have something that I want to loop back to when we get there. That's fine. What do you have?

It's Gina Miles on the voice, Nora. I've seen all of the movie stars in the fancy cars and their limousy. Rockies. Okay. Talk to me. I mean, listen, he, first time judge. he wins. He was her biggest advocate. It is unbelievably sweet to go back through parts of that season and see just what a cheerleader he was and to see him taking so much of what he learned

being tutored and mentored and turn it around and sort of inject this young woman with confidence. I loved it so much. I'm only being somewhat facetious because obviously she doesn't participate in the album. On this album, I think it's John Ryan because I think the bass and the drums on this album rock. And I think the sonic production and engineering of them is great. I think the writing

of them is great. I think they really drive from start to finish, obviously not on, you know, you should start a cult, but everything else, I think they really drive this album and give us some of the bangers and hearken back to that 1D stuff that we

that isn't too in your face, but feels like an old familiar friend here. Yeah, if I go through my notes, if I searched baseline in my notes, that would come up a lot. And the fact that, you know, I think we both really do love that there's a through line to

the late Arrow One Direction stuff and just that he's continued to work with a lot of the same crew. So I think that's a good one. The voice, like, it really is, lovely to hear him talk about that experience of coaching. It feels good to win, right? But just being a coach on that show in general and sort of having the reverse experience of what he did. So I like that pick.

I think that's great. I went off book a little bit. Okay. I chose the piano. Wow. Because. Of the end of we should be. a cult? No, just the piano in general, like the piano in Niles' house.

Okay. Take me through that. I've read that for a lot of... During early COVID, he didn't have a lot of his guitars because they were like supposed to go on tour and they were in a bus somewhere and he couldn't get access to them. Now, I'm sure he had something, but that led to a lot of this being written in early stages as he started to work on, I think the show was an early song that he worked on, a lot of that was happening at the piano. And the implication of that at least was that would have, in a past life, have been happening on a guitar, but he felt like he needed to switch it up.

Now, I have some questions about that just because, again, I'm sure Nile had a guitar in his house. Like, I just find that hard to believe. But also, maybe that's sort of revisionist history on my part of, like, we didn't have a lot of things in our houses and we couldn't get stuff and it's easy to forget that we were all freaking out

about paper towels or whatever. Nile Horn could get whatever instruments he wanted. I think Nile could have access to a guitar if he wanted to but there was something about the piano that grabbed him for this. I don't necessarily gravitate

to the most pianoy moments on the album. Like I can, you know, I can live without science. I also, like, as a human, I can live without piano ballads for the most part. I do think the outro part to We Will Start a Cult is really interesting. I don't quite know why it's there, but it's cool.

And it does make me feel like I'm sort of sitting in a writing session with him and with all 18 collaborators or whatever. But it reminds me of the end of Cherry. Go-hoo. Sorry. Such a troll. Sorry. I know. It's not fair.

This is what this guy lives with. But I, in the best possible scenario, if he's playing a character there, you could see that sort of like him sitting at a piano by, you know, listening to the night sounds just sort of like playing this sort of simple chord progression, thinking about the subject of his obsession. Yeah. And, and I guess what I'm. My point is that that origin story to me is compelling. Because I do, if we're looking for, we're looking for the thesis statement of this album. He's clearly talked a lot about how this came out of a contemplative time

and a time of being shut down and paused and thinking about all of the frustrations of not being able to live life normally and all of that and all of the ways that it changed sort of what he was doing. And you do on the whole, like, this is a different album. This is a different album than the first two. So I guess I'm crediting, I'm taking his word for it and crediting sort of that change in process with some of that. And I'm interested to hear him talk a little bit more about that if he ever does. Or if he ever comes back on this program, we can ask him about it.

But being forced to create in a different mode in that way. I think bore some, some, oh God, I was going to say fruit again. There's something going on with you. It worked. I liked it.

You're in a fruit cult. All right. Whatever. You're all about mango. That's the name of my cult. All about mango. No one's going to join. That's so weird.

Well, it's the perfect time for Peak Nile then. All right. You go first because I want to go second. Fine. I think it's coming on every single album. That was some peak Nile shit. That was literally so good. He was so kind.

He was great. He was like floored with the depth that we were going into. He was like looking side. We were getting nice notes from the people with him. They gave us a lot more time. And they were lovely. So this is in no way a comment on Niles people who were genuinely like so easy to deal with and so nice. In my experience as a reporter and a reporter.

podcast host. Nice comments from the like PR handlers is not something that happens all the time. They were very kind and lovely. As was he in a shock to know. Yeah. He didn't know that he was walking into the friendly confines of people who understood him in death. He might have thought we were a little weird, but I think he was into it. Yeah, a little cultish, but like, you know. Cultish. We did. Is that song about us? We should start a cult? We did start a cult. It's about Kyle. It's called every single album. Nora, over to you. What's the peak now?

So my peak Nile is that he's in love. This man who's greeted like everybody on the planet by saying, hey, lovers. Hello, lovers. It's Nile here. For years and years and years. Nile's in love. And I almost wonder if this, and I love this album. I think it's a really, really, really excellent album.

There's a little bit of a reputation thing going on here where there's this. What? They're really leading with this idea. You mean the second part of reputation. Well, but let me explain. There's a lot of promo around this album going on about how it's about like pandemic era anxiety and what was happening in his career and like all of the worries about that and how it made him think and process and slow down.

And I hear, like, I certainly hear that. But while some of the moments, like we talked about science that are really channeling that don't totally hit for me, the moments on this album that almost universally just like slay love. I'm so happy for it. This is beautiful. Amelia Woolie is responsible for this and you think. Is it muse? I don't know. It seems like it's working.

I know like nothing about them as a couple. I know nothing about her other than she's incredibly beautiful and looks great and close. But I'm very happy for them. Oh, that could be anyone. No, it couldn't be. Not that good. It's really working. And I'm not saying that it should have been.

I think the way that he went about it is probably a more ambitious project. And clearly to you, I think some of the love songs come across is a little bit more platitudinous than they do. to me. I listened to this and was left with a little bit of a lingering, like, huh, what would this thing sound like if he had just leaned into that? And maybe we'll get that album someday. But the lover boy of One Direction is Madly in Love himself. And I think it is, it is leading to good stuff. Well, it seems to be leading to good stuff. I agree. He seems to keep it fairly. I mean, I hope it's leading to good stuff for him personally, but that's not, I'm, I just want the

songs, you know? Yeah. I think he seems to keep the relationship fairly private, but he's definitely, I mean, they went to Harry Styles concert together. They, it's, uh, it's great. Yes, I'm happy to see him. One of these guys needs to be in a highly functional long-term relationship. I would put, even like, like, if, if Nile were single or.

right now, I would still put my money on Nile. I would too. I would too. It's lovely. I mean, again, if she inspired, you should eat a cult. Like, I'm all about it. Who I'll be and who I am. You can have it all.

That's, yeah. That's a win. That's a real win. Congratulations to Amelia. Proud of you. Best One Direction song? I mean, you slid this in, and to be honest, I didn't know exactly what you meant. Did you mean which of the songs is the best One Direction song?

Or did you just throw in a random fucking category to get us in trouble where we now hear for the first time ever declare the best one direction song? Of all time. You're welcome to do that. That's not what I meant at all. Okay, good. I think I should have kissed you I think it's I should

No I think that the best one direction song in this album is Meltdown I do I think you think it's if you leave me So I think I have to go with

on a night like tonight just because it is It is literally Hey Angel So I like Definitionally I feel As though it

It has to win I can see that. I guess I just felt like Meltdown was a natural extension of 1D and the chorus stuff to me felt big and like something we would get from them. That was the song when I heard it. I was like, yes,

he's like running back towards the band, not away from it. Thank you now. Yeah. No, it's that I think that works too. I also think if you leave me could be a great one-direction song. And I think Save My Life could be a great

1975 song. God, why are they everywhere? Maddie. Maya's Save My Life notes, go like this. Bullet point one. Wow, I fucking love this song. Bullet point two, definitely could be a one-direction song. Bullet point three.

Which one-direction song is this? Bullet point four. No, this is a 19-7. 75 song. So. Well, you're right about that. It is a 1975 song sung by Nile Horn, and I like it. I also like it.

I like it too. I'm dying. I mean, you know what my best lyric is. Like, we don't even need to say it. I'll say it for the record the right way, which is you could start a cult. You could start a cult, you see. That is the shit. That is a fucking great line.

It's awesome. What do you think is the best lyric on this album? Yeah, so that is the best lyric on this album. It's right. That's correct. I also, like, you could start a war or two. You brought up just, that's another, that's another bar. I want to move off that song just to give flowers somewhere else.

And also because I think you might disagree with me. Okay. But I really find I really find the opening lines of must be loved that I'm a specialist at overthinking everything

I'll tell you about it if you have the time. I'm a specialist that overthinking everything that's a joke. That's a funny joke. And for all that we talk about how Nile has been this

willing court jester, I don't know how often he's cracked a joke or two. Wait, why is that a joke? I'll tell you about it if you have the time. Like, if he overthinks everything, he can, you know, spin eight zillion thoughts out of nothing. So if you have the time for it, you can sit down and I'll, you know, talk for forever.

It's not as funny when you explain it. Is it? It made me chuckle. I liked I got a first degree to being my own worst enemy. I got a first degree and being my worst thing. Okay, I liked it too. But, and a lot of these people didn't have unusual experiences with higher education. Maybe first degree is a UK thing.

Yeah. I mean, you could say like I got my first degree in whatever and then I got an MBA and whatever. I don't, most people would not say that that way. When I hear first degree, I hear first degree. I hear first degree burn. That one tripped me up a little bit. Like, I don't know that I got like, oh, my first degree is in this and then I have my PhD. Maybe. It's fine.

It's a totally UK thing. Maybe. I'm not sure that's exactly right. But whatever. I'm still into it. I think it's a fun. It's distinguished from a higher degree like a PhD, which is in the next line. Well, right.

No, that's what I know that that's what it's. supposed to mean. I'm just, I think it's a funny way to communicate that information. But I am, I am, um, making a counter argument to my actual argument here, which is that those lyrics are good. They're fun.

They're playful. They're silly. I'm into it. Tally ho. No. Absolutely not. I didn't even use the accent on you. Well, because you don't do an Irish accent.

Oh, do I not? So far, no. just do you wait All right You can do it in any accent that you want But grade this album Nathan Oh you're gonna be so mad at me You're gonna be mad at me

I gave it a B plus I gave it a B plus because I wanted more And because the last three songs Did not land with me very well It's not that they're bad They just were kind of meh And I felt like in such a short piece of work.

And I think it was intentionally short. I mean, this is music made for the TikTok swiping era and the short attention. It's a different app. But there are, I know, there are scrolling, whatever, don't shame me. You get the point. The gestures. I support you. It's the universal gestures.

Thank you. I felt like, This album has some things that belong in the pantheon and some things that belong on the cutting room floor. I'm very thrilled that it exists. I do not believe that it is better than heartbreak weather, and I can't wait to hear what you think about it. It is a significant step forward from him as an artist. It does, to me, evolve him out of the jester role a little bit. it does to me also indicate that I think this is the guy who's carrying the one direction torch going forward.

So I'm thrilled that it exists. And I gave it a B plus. I'm not mad at you because I gave it a B plus too. You really fooled me with that. Well, because you're exactly what you said. You have to grade it. I have to grade it against everything else that we've graded in the past. Yes.

Right? And I don't know other than you could start a cult. I'm not sure how much this is, you know, there's not a lot of like revolutionary, particularly evolutionary stuff that's going on here. And I'm not talking about within the, you know, the entire animals of popular music, even just for Nile. Yeah. Because to the extent that he's moving forward in this, which he is, he is moving forward in some ways by moving back towards things that he's done. They are things that I like very much. So this album is going to get a lot of play from, from me. I'm sure of that. In the Nora household, it's going to get a lot of play at these dinner parties where we definitely do not cry. Where we definitely don't ever cry.

What a weird thing to say. I can't believe they put me in front of a microphone. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't, I wish, I wish I felt like people were going to spend more time with it. I do too. That's the thing, Nora. That's the thing. It looks like this album right now, and I say this to the Nile fan base that hopefully is listening, it looks to me right now like this album is going to get about the same attention that Heartbreak Weather did.

Because it's just super hard to break out right now. Ed Shear struggling. The, you know, Post Malone kind of struggling, the Sean Mendez stuff, not breaking through. Like, it's really hard to break through right now. And when you go and you look at the Billboard 100 right now, I just, there isn't anything like this that's up there. And so I'm worried about it as an art form being something that's just not at the moment anyway resonating. Now, these things can change in an instant. you know, the right TikTok trend that hits on it, the right sync into the, you know, whatever, HBO,

I just refuse to say Max, the right Netflix or Max show of the moment, right? There always can be something that pushes this forward, and I hope that his label will continue to invest in it. I mean, take, you should start a cult and treat it like the song that deserves a cult around it and find the right landing spot for it in some sort of vampire makeout scene or something because it needs to be heard in a broader context. Yeah, you could start a cult in a vampire makeout scene. That's the best idea from this entire podcast. I think that's what this needs.

I think that's perfect. I don't think we can top that. Nathan, any final thoughts? I love Nile Horan. That's my final thought. I want more Nile Horan music in the world. and I'm excited that he's got a tour coming up. It's bizarre to me that they announced a year in advance,

but there we go. He's going to go out and hustle in the amphitheaters again. He just loves playing those open-air amphitheaters. And I would really genuinely love to be at the tour opening shows in Ireland in 2024. Rock on. I'm going to think about it. Love it.

This has been every single album. I'm Nora Pinciotti. As always, he is Nathan Hubbard. Thank you so much for listening and thank you to the wonderful Kaya McMullen for producing this episode. We'll talk to you soon.