Every Single Album - ‘The Taylor Swift Holiday Collection’ | Every Single Album: Taylor Swift

Episode Date: December 22, 2021

Happy holidays! Nora and Nathan have a present for you: They’re talking about Taylor Swift’s Christmas discography. They cover her Christmas album, ‘The Taylor Swift Holiday Collection,’ her much better Christmas song ‘A Christmas Tree Farm,’ and debate whether or not ‘evermore’ is a Christmas album.   Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Twice a week, Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay dissect the biggest topics in black culture, politics, and sports on their show, Higher Learning. They discuss the most important and timely conversations while also frequently inviting guests on the podcast and occasionally debating each other. Check out Higher Learning on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, happy holidays and welcome to a surprise, extra bonus edition of every single album, Taylor Swift. I'm Nora Princeati. I'm here with Nathan Hubbard.

Nathan, happy holidays. Ho, ho. Holy shit. We're going to talk about Taylor Swift some more. What would happen if Christmas Carols told a lie? We couldn't resist. So we are going to do an extra special episode on the Taylor Swift holiday collection, extravaganza.

Formerly known as Sounds of the Season, the Taylor Swift Holiday Collection. It was? It was? Yes. Sounds of the season was removed for the 2000. re-release of this album? We should have removed the whole album. Hey. Okay.

I'm not here for this from you. Did I jump to the punchline too fast? How did this happen? A holiday spirit out of you. Oh, I've got tons of holiday spirit. Don't get me wrong. Okay. Good. I'm ready.

I open with a Santa line. Come on. Let's go. Okay. So I need to know just to understand your mental state and and framework for this episode. When do you start listening to holiday music or do you at all in the calendar? So the rule that I have with my kids is we can't start until the day after Halloween.

So it's November 1st. Oh, wow. Yeah. No, we don't fuck around. Holy smokes. My rule is day after Thanksgiving. No, no, no. The day, November 1st, I drive my kids to school.

We put on, all I want for Christmas is you, the Mariah Carey song. best of all time in the car and we sing it at the top of our lungs. I love that so much. Wow. I just feel like a little Christmas angel just landed on my shoulders. Okay, got it.

So you take this stuff seriously. Well, I do. I really do. My kids are almost at the point where they're out of it. I can't believe you just said angels on your shoulder because there's just a ridiculous line from Christmas must be something more

that is what if angels did not pay attention to all the things that we wished they would always do. Things that we wish they would always do. Anyway, we got, we'll get to these songs. We have to get there. We'll get there. I know, I know getting ahead of ourselves.

Good Lord. All right. Well, just a quick primer in case anyone has been living under a rock and doesn't remember Sounds of the Season, aka the Taylor Swift Holiday Collection, aka Sounds of the Season, the Taylor Swift Holiday Collection. This bad boy was released in 2008 and then re-released in 2009. It is a six-song LP. It has two original songs and four covers by the one and only Taylor Swift.

It clearly, they repurpose some visuals from the teardrops on my guitar video. They repurposed a lot. throw some glitter and some red bow-looking stuff on to make the album art, to make the album cover. Throw this thing out there. Partner with Target. Eventually release it as a digital download. But, uh,

look, this is why, you know, she left Scott Boshetta. These are the kinds of decisions that only happened because of a record label. When you're early on in your career, an artist. You don't know what the hell's going on. You just want to make music, put it out, and you're trusting the team at the label to do the things required to get your name out there

and build your brand as an artist. And everybody tells their artists, when you work at a record label, we got to make a Christmas album. Because if you can get that one breakthrough song, speaking of which Mariah Carey, it gets play every year. You become a household name. It's in commercials. People love you. Grandparents like you. The kids love you.

Yeah. So this just reeks of a, hey, we got to get some Christmas music out there to try to help you grow. So we're going to get a crack team together really quickly on a shoestring budget. And, you know, Rob Thomas has a Christmas album. And Taylor Swift has a Christmas album. Everybody has a Christmas album. So this is just like the corporatization of music.

Oh, we'll get there. Don't worry. We will fucking get there. You are saying that this is in the grand holiday tradition of corporate money grabs. Yes, that's the reason this thing exists. This was not like a... Merry Christmas, everybody. Yeah.

Mr. Hanky, the Christmas poo. This is, yeah, this is because, like, this was not like a... I just love Christmas and I want to make an album about it. this was, I am doing what my record label suggests I need to do. Sort of funny because, as we will see, Taylor has the former in her. Homegirl loves Christmas. She does. She loves Christmas.

She loves snow. She loves jingle bells. But maybe we'll have to go a little bit further forward in time to get there. But without further ado, oh boy. It doesn't sound as though you love her. this album, Nathan. But tell me what is the best song? The best song is not on this album.

The best song is Christmas Tree Farm. In my heart is a Christmas tree farm where the people would come to dance under Spark. And you know that she did Christmas Tree Farm because she woke up one day and thought about her back catalog and was like

this is the only thing I'm completely and totally embarrassed about that I've ever created. And now I'm going to go write a that absolutely sits in the top 10 Christmas music songs or Christmas music like catalogs for me. And I want to know what yours are.

For me, it's like all I want for Christmas, for sure, Mariah Carey, you will always be the best. Last Christmas, bring it on, George Michael. The Peanuts Christmas album. Kelly Clarkson, but only the underneath the tree song. I'm not as into the rest of the... Underneath the tree is the shit. Underneath the tree rule.

Also the Jonas Brothers have a great Christmas song Oh, I agree. But it's Christmas Every day that I'm with you Oh, I agree, but it's not my... Listen, I like the Justin Bieber Missile Toe song where he says, I'm gonna be under the mistletoe. Shottie with you.

I should be playing in the winter snow, but I'm gonna be under the mistletoe. Shottie with you. Shottie with you. And then anything from Michael Bublay, Penitonics, bring it on. Old school Burlive shit. And then ACDC's Mistress for Christmas

and Skid Rose jingle bells. Oh, heck yeah. What did I miss? So just sleigh bells, sleigh ride, anything that's like super, super twinkly. Yeah. That's my stuff. The Jonas Brothers one is great.

Merry Christmas, happy holidays. A jam. time again. Oh, wait, that's the in-sync song? That's the in-sync one. It's in-sync, not the back street, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that one rules.

By the way, do you think Marjorie had a Christmas song, like an old school, have yourself a Merry Little Christmas, which, by the way, is the most depressing Christmas song ever written besides one of the ones on this album? Maybe the one on this album is one step above it, but it's definitely in just the gutter of Christmas spirit songs. Marjorie would have been perfect for one of these old school songs.

Wait, as in Marjorie Taylor's grandmother would have been perfect singing one of them? Yes, yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, heck yeah. I mean, you also know that she had like the right Christmas records to put on. Exactly. Exactly. Which is definitely why we got Christmas tree farm.

Thank God we did. Because it is a good song. I mean, Arch is a tree farm slaps. Yeah, under the mistletoe watching the fire glow, that little hook section and the cords there, it gets me every time. She did it.

It's like, it's so perfectly over the top without ever being cringy. Like, everything is icy and blue. It's so funny, but it also makes me feel really warm and cheery and perfect. I love Christmas tree farm.

How do you feel about the, old-timey version of Christmas tree farm. You know, it didn't do much for me. I still go back to, I don't think this is a Taylor's version situation. We don't have to choose, do we? No, no, no, no, no, not at all. I'm with you that it doesn't do a time for me either, just because I think the original Christmas tree farm is,

it's old-timey in its own way. Like, it has all the glittery bells and it's poppier, and you get the gang vocal of all the carolers at the end. wanted more of that. I want like an extra round of that. Totally. It's not enough. And you lose that in the old time you version. But again, like what they're trying to do there, the sort of like swinging big band full orchestra thing.

I get it. The aesthetic of that, I actually think the original kind of achieves in its own way. Me too. I don't think that we need it. But I do love this song. Maybe we can do an Elvira remix of Christmas Tree Farm. If we're just doing Christmas tree farm versions. I listened to the version that she played at like one of the I heart radio Christmas show,

Jingle ball. ball or something. It didn't translate so great live, but it would have translated better if she'd had the entire Madonna-like-a-prayer chorus singing a much longer extended version of the outro. Let's just say there's no 10-minute version of Christmas Tree Farm that is missing from the universe right now. But I love the song. I'm glad it exists.

Although, if there was a 10-minute Christmas Tree Farm where it was just like eight minutes of that outro with the chorus, I don't know. Yeah, maybe. I can do like eight minutes of it. Well, put Jack on it. Let's see if we can produce something that matters. We'll get a video. It'll all come together, I'm sure.

Anyway, for this album, I think, I guess, if I have to choose Best Song, I guess it's Christmases when you were mine. I know this shouldn't be a lonely. There were Christmases when you were. Which again, I think, I have to be honest, I think it's the second most depressing song behind have yourself a Merry Little Christmas?

The original version, though, because the original version of that song, like the last line is like, someday soon we all will be together if the fates allow until then we'll muddle through this world somehow. And everybody who's ever recorded it since then, yeah, yeah, we'll have to muddle through somehow.

Everybody changed it to hang a shining star upon the highest bow to avoid the full-on holiday depression plunge. So everyone was like, this is a downer, guys, is we going to do something about this? Yeah, and they did. But, I mean, this song, Christmas is when you were mine, is Standard Taylor, right? Agreed.

Like, super sad girl Christmas. It's hard for me to go there, but if we got to pick a best, and this is saying something now, best song, this is like, who's the tallest smurf? Christmas is when you were mine is the tallest smurf on the Taylor Swift Holiday Collection.

I agree that it's the tallest smurf among the two. original songs on the Christmas is when you were mine. Just wait. Just wait. The other original song. Don't even speak the name. No, you can't even say that loud.

Christmas must be something more. Which Taylor, bless her heart, wrote by herself. This one was co-written with Liz Rose. And interestingly enough, Nathan Chapman, who gets... Stop it.

Nathan Chapman gets a writing credit at a production credit on this. Congratulations to you, Nathan Chapman. Yeah. Way to go, buddy. I'm sure that's high up on the resume. Really appreciate that you did this work. Fine. Fine. I like Christmas is when you were mine. Okay. Yeah. I like. So yes, I agree. It's very sad girl Christmas, but come on, we knew Taylor was going to give us that. And I like how at the end the lyric there were Christmases when I didn't wonder how you are tonight because there were Christmases when you were mine. Yeah. It's a little bit of, it's a little bit similar to switching up the last line, which she does on so many great songs.

She doesn't fully switch it up because she just adds the there were Christmases when I didn't wonder how you are tonight and then goes back to the There Were Christmases when you were mine. But I think that's clever. I think that's a good piece of writing. There were Christmases when I didn't wonder how you are to know. And I agree that if we're paying attention to the ones that she actually had a part in writing, this is clearly the winner. I have to say, I'll tell you what mine is in a second. I'm shocked you. I was expecting you to go off book here.

I am shocked you didn't choose something from Evermore and try to argue that Evermore is a holiday album. Oh, just wait. Just wait. We're not there yet. It's too early in the show for that. line of questioning, but you know it's coming. Evermore is a Christmas album. Okay. So I'll give you mine and I'm going to give you my most important collaborator at the same time because they're basically, they get at the same thing. What is going to happen here? The best song on this album is

last Christmas. Oh. And her most important collaborator is George Michael because George Michael wrote a Taylor Swift song before it was a Taylor Swift song. Oh, that's a great call. How, so tell me, baby, do you recognize me? Well, it's been a year. It doesn't surprise me. That is a Taylor Swift lyric.

Tell me, baby, do you recognize me? Well, it's been a year. It doesn't surprise me. Yeah. The narrative, dialogue, the sort of nostalgia, but running into an old boat. Like, I have to give. the label credit in that if you are going to

make this Christmas money grab and do this album if last Christmas was not on this album somebody should like I don't know I don't know what you do I think you have to like tear up the whole thing and start again because there is no more perfect Christmas song I think this album is worth having

because of Taylor's version of last Christmas. Really? You like the arrangement. I really love it and I think that it's really good sung by her. I think it makes sense for her to sing it. I think she can inhabit that song really, really well. But does she? So that's a good question. Stalling, stalling, stalling. So to me, now she does.

Come on, man. I mean, can you fucking believe that she made fearless after this? Like there was zero signals that Fearless was on its way coming out of this. Grammy winning album of the year. Putting this out in the world is pretty fearless. Fair enough. You understand what she called the album Fearless, but you wouldn't have had a whole lot of optimism in the label side.

Something great was coming. Stop it. Disagree. Here's what I'm trying to figure out. Now I really do feel like she inhabits it. I'm trying to be honest about whether or not that is 2021 Nora Brain thinking, oh, how charming that, you know, breakup songwriter extraordinaire Taylor Swift did this song right at the beginning. Doesn't that make so much sense? Isn't it charming that all of these conventions that she has mastered so completely kind of fit in with this like dinky funny Christmas song? God, that is a lot of analysis for something that feels like something that feels like.

somebody gave her a list of Christmas songs and told her to pick one from. I would like to think that there was some amount of thought. Okay. I can get more into it if that's true. Somebody somewhere knew that last Christmas was the Christmas song that Taylor Swift was meant to sing. It's just hard to... It's like when somebody else covers all I want for Christmas is you. It's like, what are you doing?

Like, you don't re-record a Led Zeppelin song. I don't know. I think it is. So first of all, I've heard this song a lot. I may have heard her version as many times as I've heard the WAM version. It's at least at a critical mass. What? It is at least, this song gets played on the radio. It is on Spotify playlist. It is out there. Come on. My brain is equally used to hearing Taylor Swift sing this song as it is. What universe do you live? I need an immediate audit of your Spotify account. This is a good song. She's, okay, first of all, the twang is funny on this. Yes, yes.

And you can tell that she's into it. Oh, it's so great. Yes, I agree. She's a very pre-finishing school vowels on this album. 100%. They've never been on a horse. Well. Except a wrangle.

Yeah, exactly. It just works for me. It seems like she's having fun doing it. I can't, I'm never going to, I can't unhear what you just told me, which is that this song you've heard as much as the George Michael version. I have. I really think I have. Whoa. The algorithms are taking over. This is problematic. Did I ruin your Christmas?

No. But if the original didn't exist, my Christmas might be ruined. Okay, so maybe this is an old school versus new school debate a little bit. I just am absolutely shocked. I'm asking my girls after this pod if they agree that they've heard it as much. because their playlist is infiltrated in crazy ways by Taylor Swift. All right, well, we'll figure it out. Well, the old school, new school thing is interesting, too, because if you read magazine profiles and all the things she's said over the years. Which I do.

Which you do. It does seem as though Taylor's introduction to, like, 80s British synth pop came a little bit later than this. But if last Christmas introduced Taylor to George Michael. 1989 influences. This is where it all began. All right. You know, you're really grasping at unbelievable straws. You're pulling them out of the baby Jesus manger.

But you're slowly but surely building a completely uncredible, but will suffice case for this song being on this album. And they led with it. I mean, it's the first song. They knew. You know, it's the state of great. of it's the welcome to New York of the Taylor Swift Holiday Collection. Last Christmas is the all too well of Taylor Swift Holiday Collection. Wait a minute. Is it really? I mean, we barely

have a track five here and the best part of track five in all the lore is that Christmas must be something more is the fifth song on this album. And let's be clear about who our most important collaborator is. It's not George Michael. It's baby. Jesus, because this is a song that chastises the world for materialism, for forgetting the true meaning of Christmas. It feels a little bit like a rewrite of the outside, the song from the debut album. Musically, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Musically is right. And we'll get to the, my favorite lyric. from this album, I think, a little later on.

But wow, this song is, I think there's a reason, well, I don't get it, actually. I'll tell you why I don't get it, because every other, I mean, this album, inexplicably, when it was re-released, charted at 20 on the Billboard 200, which just tells you- It also got, like, very good reviews. Yeah, if she eats Christmas dinner and then records herself,

like, burping with her family, it will go to at least four on the Billboard 200. but the fact that this got to 20 is shocking. What is not shocking is that the only song that didn't make it to radio is this one, is Christmas must be something more. What is shocking is that the only reason you would put this song on an album is if you were trying to go for that like Amy Grant, you know, the sort of heavy-duty Christian rock or Christian music sort of radio variety.

And even they were like, uh, here's to the what? Here's to the birthday boy who saved our lives And you're reminding lives with find and mind This might be I don't know I don't know that we could I don't know we have a slot for this one

Here's the one that does it for me It is the line Here's something you should know That is for sure Who did this to her? This woman wrote The 10 minute version of all too well It's just insane

sane. What a development. I mean, it's just such a comeback. You just never would have. It's like the rookie season was just a wash and everyone was like, completely screwed that draft pick. Like, we wish really should have traded down to draft some linemen and some defensive guys. And all of a sudden, you've got Tom fucking Brady. Nobody saw it coming.

Maybe like, maybe her mom really loves this song or something. I can see like, I don't know. Somebody thought it was very charming. Don't blame Andrea for this. Andrea was like, you know, Andrea heard this and was like, well, it's a little much, but if the label says go. You're right.

You're right, you're right. Look, the other most important collaborator would be Target, I guess, who's responsible for this whole shenanigans, at least as a partner. So, Tarje, thanks a lot. Merry Christmas. I hope you got a lot of people into the stores.

walking past the N-Caps that had this album and into the aisles to buy whatever game console was a Nintendo 64s or whatever the hell was available in 2008. Oh, that's funny. I don't know. I don't know what that would have been. Somebody will have to let us know. What's the most purposeful Easter egg in this entire ridiculous project? Is it most purposeful Easter egg or is it most purposeful jingle bell? Oh, okay. Now you're thinking. So here's where I am on this. This is where I'm going to invoke Christmas Tree Farm.

Yeah. Have you seen the making of Christmas Tree Farm video, a little video they posted? No. What a lapse in research on my part for this episode. Yeah, you got to check it out. Don't worry. I'll send you a link. You'll cover me.

Okay. So here's what happens. It's December 1st. I can't believe you have a whole story and set up for this. Go ahead. So here's what happens. So we're going to have to go back in time slightly. December 5th, 2019, morning up.

She just put yourself in the headspace of December 5th, 2019. The before times, nobody knew what a coronavirus was. Yeah. Back in the olden days. So she posts a video in the morning. And she says, look, like, I've got a dilemma. I've written a Christmas song. And I think it's a little weird to wait a whole year to release it.

I don't have anybody to ask. Who should I ask? So then she walks around her house and asks her cats. I don't have anyone to ask right now except for... Meredith. Should I put out a Christmas song, like now? Benjamin. Should I put out a Christmas song?

Okay. And Meredith Olivia and Benjamin are not particularly, helpful. She's like, guys, should I release a Christmas song? They just sort of, you know, lick their fur and ignore her. This is actual content that exists on the internet. This is like a real thing that happened. Producer Kyle will drop it in and I'll send it to you. But then she says, you know what? I think I'm going to do it. And so she posts that video and she's like, Christmas tree farm out at midnight. They release the song and then there's a video of the making of Christmas tree farm. And the video makes it increasingly.

incredibly clear that this song was written in a flash. It has, they dub the clips in the video with the dates that stuff was happening on. And so the song ends up coming out, like midnight, December 6th. The video says that on December 1st, she's playing chords in the piano and it has the real bare bones of the idea and she's coming up with stuff. This rings a jingle bell, yes. It's about how like you're in the city and you're stressed out and your life is feeling really like low, but in your heart is a Christmas tree farm. And then December 2nd,

one day later, she's in studio with Jimmy Napes, the producer that she worked with, and they're making the song. And she says stuff in the, she's talking to him in what they recorded. And she's like, 24-hour song turnaround. It's good to document these things.

24-hour song turnaround. My, Winter's nights are taking up ecstatic. And they're making jokes about how quickly they're doing all of this. But, you know, they get the chorus in there. They're just putting it all together. They're playing around on the piano.

It is very obvious if you watch that, that she is communicating. I did this in the blank of an eye. But not to make it seem like, oh, I didn't try or don't, you know, don't hold this to my standards. Because she's worried it's going to suck or be cheesy? I don't get that. at all. It just seemed like she was intent on kind of communicating, I had an idea and we went

and executed it. Wow. Again, December 2019. So two months later, Miss Americana is going to come out. Two months after that, lockdown's going to start. Taylor's going to contact Erin Destner, etc. Folklore, Evermore, Long Pond, Fearless Taylor's Version, Red Taylor's version, the vault opens up. Am I telling you that Christmas Tree Farm unlocked and, and certain, as an Easter egg and or jingle bell ringing in the most ambitious creative period of this woman's storied career

God, I love when you go full tin hat on me. You just sometimes you get down into the weirdest, most twisted Reddit thread conspiracy theory with this woman and it is just, it's just, it's fun to observe from afar.

I will go with you that Christmas Tree Farm has some Easter egging, but for me, it is the vocal line that comes out of the sort of broken down chorus, three chorus the way through the song, the sort of the word you, it's the same vocal run that she does on the song, Me. Me is like a GAC,

and then if it just continues the run with the D-E-G at like the 250 mark coming out of the chorus, So I think that maybe Christmas tree farm is to blame for the disaster that was me. Well, so that's interesting because it would have to go the other way around, right, because of the timing. But it's interesting you say that because... Oh, other way around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. While I do have my tinfoil hat on a little bit, I honest to goodness did think that, not at the time of of Christmas tree farm.

But by the time Miss Americana came out, so that's end of January 2020, right. They have that part of Miss Americana where she's with Joel Little writing Only the Young. And they do the same thing where she really explicitly mentions how quickly it came together. Huh.

And he talks about it. Joel Little also responsible for me. And I do, I honest to goodness, remember thinking at that time, she's making a real effort to show us how quickly she can do this. And to show us that an element of her process is kind of like, idea, let's go, finish product song. Okay.

And I didn't think that when they did it with Christmas tree farm, it took it happening twice for me to go, huh, she's like really, maybe it's an accident, maybe it's on purpose, but she is, we are really clearly getting the message that Taylor's doing this at a rapid clip. And that ended up being really true, right? Like, if we knew what was coming for the next basically two years, like, she was turning stuff out. She was ready to do that. Okay, this is, I'm not going here with you. I'm sorry, this is too far. I can support you as you venture down this path of insanity trying to connect all these dots, a la a beautiful mind.

But I'm staying on this side of the river. And on this side of the river, my most purposeful Easter egg, and I know, I know that you aren't going to cut this song. But Santa Baby, it just was a weird choice to have a very, very young girl singing a song that is a little bit sultry and pretty flirty. But I do think it was sort of like a reverse Easter egg in that, like, she's asking for a ring, and here we are in 2021. Is Taylor going to get a ring in 2022?

Because it's really Joe Alwyn. It's his time. And if we're talking about Christmas, have you seen pictures of him? He looks like Scandinavian Santa right now. He has just incredible beard game and salad going on. He's just got, he's like Baltic, Baltic Chris Kringle or something. And so...

Yeah, that is some crispy blonde lettuce. If she's going to get a ring in 2020 or maybe he's going to get a ring, who knows, this song, Santa Baby, the only takeaway from that will be maybe it was a, you know, prescient Easter egg or something. Otherwise, it's a little creepy this song is. I'm sorry, you think I am shoehorning logical threads into this podcast? Look, go with me. Baltic Santa will bring you no ludicist if you're not careful.

I want to visit from Baltic Santa. You don't. No one wants Baltic Santa. All right. For the record, I would cut this song. I agree that it's cringy and weird. At the very least, they went all the way with it and made it, you know, the electric guitar, the tambourine. It's all super plasticy, which I think if you are going to do Santa Baby, you kind of have to turn it up to 11. I don't think this song is incredibly hard to save from its own cringe worthiness. and particularly so when it's like a very young woman singing it. Like Ariana Grande now can kind of do it where it's like, all right, it fits the schick.

I'm made less uncomfortable by this, but I find it uncomfortable. I don't, I wish they hadn't done it. I mean, the only weirder thing she could have done was do Baby It's Cold Outside. A song I love. Yeah, with John Mayer. That's so horrible. Yeah. I feel like one of my-

It's horrible. One of my not-so secret shames is I love Baby It's cold outside. I do too. I think it's a great Christmas song. I do too, but it's a particularly handsy Christmas song. So you would, is that,

that's the one that you would cut Santa Baby? So I would, here are the three that I could live the rest of my life without ever hearing again. It's Santa Baby's Silent Night or Christmas must be something. So let's go to Silent Night because what the hell happened on that song? There's no melody. I don't think I need to make the argument for cutting Silent Night

because it is fairly evident to me that Taylor Swift does not like that song because she was like, all right, if we're doing it, we're changing literally everything. Everything. We're just going to use the word sort of entirely new melody. Here is, I think Silent Night is like a song from the vault of the debut album. It's the only thing that makes sense. It's like a gift to the country, people. Christ the Savior is born.

Yeah. I'm not sure it's a gift to anybody. But by the way, you just argued for shooting three of six songs on this album Into the Sun. So I sort of rest my case on what's going on in this album. I mean, I'm going to. I want last Christmas to listen to every year. many times for the rest of my life.

I had no idea. I want Christmas is when you were mine to just sort of like, no exists and appreciate but never listen to. And I don't know, white Christmas is fine. Yeah, white Christmas is okay. It's sweet. It's also

I find the aggressive twang is somehow charming. Yeah. Well, look, the songs to cut are the entire album. I wish this thing hadn't happened because we know what she's capable of in Christmas tree farm. We also know what she's

capable of and my peak Taylor is she's capable of putting out a holiday album, getting it nominated for a Grammy and calling it Evermore. Evermore is a holiday album. There we go. And by the way, tis the damn season. I have some revisionist analysis about this song. Tis the damn season.

Do you know what the turkey drop is? No. The turkey drop is. when every kid who's a freshman in college comes home at Thanksgiving and they break up with their girlfriend or boyfriend. And they go back to college

because they're like, oh shit. And tis the damn season is about the turkey drop. This is incredible. Oh, I love this. So it is through and through a holiday album. I mean, tolerate it and others have like similar piano vibes to Joni Mitchell's River from the album Blue, which is definitely a Christmas song.

It's coming on Christmas, they're cutting down trees, they're putting up reindeer and singing songs of joy and peace. Well, if you watch Love Actually, it's a Christmas song. It's a Christmas song. Yes, yes, and it gets covered by others. And it's a Christmas song. This is a Christmas or holiday album that's disguised, you know, as a Grammy-nominated Tour to Force that's one of her best records ever.

I do have to say it is Evermore season. I had put that album down for a while, and I have been listening to it since the calendar turned to December, and I continue to be blown away. When you listen to that album and headphones, I adore, adore Evermore. It's so good. I'm having the same experience with it where I hadn't been listening to it as much and back in there. And that's what makes this exercise so hard, right?

Because there's just no comparison between these works of, in parentheses, art in quotations, not parentheses. You're doing fine. You're doing fine. But so here's the thing is I need more of an argument than one song from you as to however more is a holiday album.

Well, I gave you to... Okay. Okay. Tis the damn season makes sense to me. Although, I will say, you are kind of re-arguing that instead of it being a Christmas song, it's a Thanksgiving song. No, no, no, because it's about sort of entering the holiday season. So many of these Christmas songs, Nora, let me tell you, are really reflections as we enter into the holiday period. Sort of, you know, wishing your family and friends, good cheer as we turn the calendar into December. And that is what happened.

This entire album was released in December. This album has, when you really put it into headphones, it has all sorts of icy, wintery. Super icy. In the background. I mean, it's basically, it feels like the entire thing was recorded on a frozen pond out in the middle of northern New York somewhere. I don't know. Maybe the Long Pond Studio, you know, that's the vibe of this entire album.

And in the same way, it's a winter album. and it has the holiday references through and through. I just, I don't know how you could tell me that this is not a holiday album. I really, I'm a loss for words, Nora. Here's what I could do. What the heck does she need a boating license for in December? Good thing. My daddy made me get a boating license when I was 15.

Well, I mean, she's talking. What the heck? I mean, maybe that's what Baltic Santa's bringing her. She needs a boat. She needs a boat to help bury a body. Yeah. With Haim. Fair enough.

Listen, listen, there's always a little, you know, left turn or right turn on a Christmas album that an artist puts out. It's hard to fill an entire Christmas album with, you know, home run after home run content. And for that, I'd refer you to, you know, the Slayer Christmas album or, you know, anything. I mean, there's just, there's a lot of artists who. we've swung and miss on, again, the Rob Thomas Christmas album. So you really can't falter for putting in a little bit of fluff here and there. I mean, certainly the Taylor Swift holiday album has a little bit of fluff here and there.

All right. I could see, I can kind of see Marjorie as a holiday song just because it's about family and nostalgia. Yes. And because of the voice. Ivy, Ivy is a Christmas plant. No doubt. Tis the damn season, definitely. The holidays, think of like bad perfume.

You can run but only so far. I mean, that's, that's number one. I think it's a winter album. I have to be honest with you. I love it for you that it's a holiday album for you. To me, it is a winter album. Yeah, it's really a winter album for me, but. But that sort of counts.

All right. I mean, the, the Peanuts, Christmas album, you know, the Snoopy one. And that's, I guess that is tied to a Christmas, actual Christmas special. So it counts as a holiday album. But I think about that as winter too. If it is, then it's, it's rather nice because, you know,

you get Hyman there, you got a little Hanukkah action going. Even though, again, they're on a boat somewhere. Maybe it's a, maybe it's a tropical Christmas. Maybe after they, they, um, off Esty's cheating husband, they go to the Bahamas and drop the body. Maybe they're just sitting around the fire at Christmas reflecting on the murder that they committed. As one does.

And isn't that the true meaning of the holidays? No, it's not. No, it's not. Don't you forget what the true meaning of the holidays is. Christmas must be something more. Did you just give me Peak Taylor or? Yeah, that's all I got. Peak Taylor is putting out a holiday album,

calling it Evermore. What is your peak tail? My Peak Taylor is recording the old-timey version of Christmas Tree Farm at Abbey Road with a 70-piece orchestra. Yeah, that's certainly counts. Taylor just deciding to do this like dinky thing with Amazon's money and then just with Amazon music and then just spending Amazon's money like hand over fist. Yeah. By the way, right around the time of the Beatles dot coming out. Yeah.

Don't forget the tie-ins. in the same way she, what did she, she, appeared with the Haim, the Haim girl who's in the movie, right? And on her birthday Instagram picks. Okay. I know we were talking to Juliet about that the other week. They are friends.

They've been friends. There's more documentation of Taylor hanging out with Haim or like doing stuff with Haim than a lot of other people. But with that, Haim sister, was there some fracture in the relationship or something? I don't know. No.

No. Okay. So then. Never. Never. Never, ever. they've been friends and their birthdays

are right around each other. Come on. Plus they buried a body together, potentially in the Bahamas. I'm absolutely... Well, you know what? That's true. So I'm a little surprised

that we haven't heard more from Taylor this season. Yeah, me too. I was really surprised on her birthday. I'm really surprised and the only thing that I can point to

is the shadow of Adele. It's the only thing that I wonder if... I mean, we've seen rumors and obviously heard that perhaps there's a residency that's being talked about, but Adele announced her residency and put tickets up on sale. And, you know, we know that she moved Red, re-released Taylor's version to sort of get out of the shadow of 30. I just wonder if the team made a decision to wait. It's just a very strange thing to not have something dropped in

December that, you know, is everybody spending money? And, you know, ponying up for gifts, that's usually when the biggest tours of the year go out on sale. Now, I'm not saying it's not happening. I still will be stunned if she doesn't go out on tour in 22 or do something, as we've talked about through this process. But I just...

It's surprising to me that we haven't heard anything big. Yeah, it's surprising to me, too. Do you think she's staying out of the way of the red re-release and of the Evermore Grammy stuff? Maybe. Maybe, I mean, I think that's possible because I do think that she seemed to one, sort of learn a lesson from the last 18 months or however long about putting too much out too quickly.

And it does seem as though she'd course corrected for Red Taylor's version in a way that was designed to let it breathe. and let it have its space, and maybe that's what she's doing. I hope just given that overexposure has been something that she's talked about as a fear in the past. I hope she doesn't overlearn that lesson.

Right. Mostly because it makes me sad to think about Taylor Swift thinking that people don't want to hear from her because I very much do. Well, the TikTok stuff seem to be an investment in more recurring presence. in short little bits

as opposed to something big and dramatic like an all too well 10 minute version and film. So. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe she just, she may just be cuddling by the fire with Scandinavian Santa.

I've had conversations with people about that a little bit. About her cuddling by the fire with Scandinavian Santa. But just what if she's not, it's not her responsibility to be serving her fans every single day. of every single week, of every single month, of every single year. That is absolutely true. My perspective on this comes from the place of she's a smart business woman, and there's stuff to be done here.

There's money to be made. There's people to make happy. There's interesting work to be done. And it's still very hard for me to believe that those aren't things that she authentically and significantly wants to. to do. If what would make Taylor happy right now is to like hang out with Joe and her cats, well, yeah. Have at it. Great. He was not at the Saturday Night Live parties. We did not see him at all during the Red Release. And the argument was he's down on a movie. The reason we know he looks

like Baltic Santa is because the video came out of the rap of that film. So this may be the first time that they've gotten to spend some time together and maybe she's just decided she's going to invest in that. Do you think that Joe... Now I'm wearing tin hats with you. Joe listened to the first season of every single album and rededicated himself to working round the clock, embarking on creative project after creative project to spruce up that IMDB page.

I would have. We love you, Joe. We love you Baltic Santa. Baltic Santa. It's not good. All right. But what is... as good as the best lyric from this album, from the extended holiday universe of Taylor Swift. The canon. The canon.

What is your best lyric, Nathan? So here's to the birthday boy who saved our lives. There's never been anything like it. No, it's not. And it's the best. It is. I'm so mad at you. You're ruining Christmas.

Oh, come on. This makes Christmas. I mean, this is a toast that I will say at least 10 times over the next five days. Here's to the birthday boy. I'm going to text you that on Christmas. Oh, for sure. Unless you beat me to it, apparently.

Exactly. You will get it. You will get it multiple times between now and the night of the 25th. So just prepare yourself. All right. You want to hear mine? Yeah, of course I do. There's only one way to go.

Mine is almost equally cheesy and yet somehow eight million times more effective. Oh, boy. It is. And everything is icy and blue. Yeah. And you would be there too with 8 millionos. To, Christmas tree farm is like,

I love a song that's almost too dumb to work. And then just works perfectly. It's so good. I love it so much. I love this song so much. All right. Well, I'll give it to you. That's fine.

We can go with that one. I think that the baby Jesus toast is better. But have it your way. I like the baby version the best. Have it your way. All right. We got to give this album a grade. Do we, though?

Because I don't want to. No, I just don't think that it feels right in the season of giving and cheer to be grading things. It's just, can we just not do this? I'm doing it. I'm giving it five out of five reindeer. Okay. There are more than five reindeer on that sleigh. As you know, you left out quite a few reindeer.

Baltic Santa is not getting back from the movie set with only five reindeer. They're powerful, but I don't think they can pull an entire sleigh with all the presents. So that's kind of a cop-out, if I'm being honest. I'll give it, you know, I'm just really glad that Christmas tree farm exists. And I'm glad that this year, Nora and producer Kyya, that you two exist and that we were able to have so much fun putting all of this stuff on tape together and appreciate you guys a lot. Nathan's getting in his feelings because he wants to give it a C.

Oh, dude, I have D written on this piece of paper, but I'm not saying it out loud. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Nathan Hubbard, Kai McMullen. It has been a joy to spend a part of this wonderful season with you. And with all of you, this has been every single album. I'm Nora Prince, Diati. He's Nathan Hubbard.

Thank you to Kai McMullen for producing this episode.