Every Single Album - 'This Music May Contain Hope' | Every Single Album: RAYE

Episode Date: April 3, 2026

Nora and Nathan break down 'This Music May Contain Hope,' the second album from British breakout star RAYE. They talk about the frequent comparisons she gets to fellow British pop singer Olivia Dean and if they're fair (1:00), the many genres she explores throughout this record, from jazz to house music (9:58), and how throughout it all her music is powered by her incredible voice (33:48). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Princeati. And I am here, as always, but in person in the flesh with Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, thank you for the surprise appearance in New York today. Is this going to be weird? We're actually looking at each other. I know. It's so exciting. You texted me and Kaya earlier today. And we, you know, we were going to record this pod. But you were like, where are you recording the pod? And I said, I'll be in the studio in New York. And you were like, should I come? And of course I said, yes. I'm not sure that's an accurate representation of the text tone that I sent you. It's also not weird. No, that's just like how I, if I am impersonating any man, that's the voice I do. Fair enough.

It's not, it's not met with any sort of offense. That's just what comes out of my mouth. How could I take any? It's great. I'm happy to be here with you. I'm really happy too. And it's an auspicious occasion because it's been a minute since we've had an album to discuss. Yeah.

And it sounds like we're not going to have. have too many more minutes because Olivia Rodriguez just announced her album and we got a whole bunch of stuff that's on the way. Yeah, they're about to come fast and furious. And so to kick off this spring of music, we have a new album from Ray. This music may contain hope that came out last Friday and that we were sort of like, I think we were always pretty sure that we were going to talk about this, but we were waiting and seeing a little bit. And I'm really excited about this one, but tell me how it came to you because we did have a little bit of an evolving conversation about how we would cover this, if we would cover this, the ways in which we wanted to get into Ray here.

But we did and we didn't. Like I think last week we were like, what are we going to do next week? And it was like, well, let's hear the Ray album. And if we like it and it's worth doing, then fine. But if not, I don't know, we'll figure something else out. We'll do another Peter Gabriel album. No. Well, that's not what was discussed.

By the way, I think people like the album swap. I know. I really had fun with it. I think people liked it. A lot of positive feedback I didn't totally expect on the album swap. You know, it came with the spirit of generosity, and I think we both had a good time. And I was really excited about how you felt about Michelle Branch. There is, there's one album that came up a lot in my DMs where people were like, you need to do another album swap because you need to give Nathan this album. and at some point we'll do it, but we can't do it soon because there's just a certain way in which

if you don't like certain things about it, I won't be able to handle it. And at a different point in my life, I will be able to handle it. Okay, that is so cryptic. I know, I know. I can't tell you anything about it. Wow. I'm glad that it's brought all that up for you and that we're not dealing with it at all. I'm just like there's a lot going on in here that you don't even, we're not even scratching the surface. Okay, fine. I don't, let's, here's the good news. It doesn't look like we have to do an album swap for a while because we got a lot of new albums coming. I know. And so this one, Ray, a bigger star than in the U.S. Yeah, but interestingly, like, signed here to human resources, a label distribution company here,

because in the UK, they were not willing to release her first solo album. Right. And so then that was the deal that she made when she wanted to have her first solo album to get it actually distributed and put out. And then this is number two. However, this is the one that is coming on the heels

of the first single, whereas my husband, which was released in September, and got a big amount of traction. I think it's approaching like 700 million streams on stuff. Spotify, well, I would assume get to a billion. Like, that is a big song. That gave her a different sort of runway going into this album.

Yeah. So I think it was under that context that we assumed we were going to do it, but we didn't really know. There also has been, for a long time in the UK, the music industry there thought they were dead. Like, there was just nothing new that was growing and coming out of the UK. in a lot of ways, the industry started to reflect some of those changes. Like over at Warner and Atlantic, they've merged the U.S. and U.K. divisions over there to just sort of eliminate their territory stuff. And suddenly, between Olivia Dean and Ray and a number of others, like there's stuff that's

coming out of the UK that is great and that really matters. So I think it just teaches you that it's cyclical. But the success of Olivia Dean for me sort of set up this interest in Ray. And it's not at all a fair comparison, but it's one that's happened. It's two women coming out of the UK who sort of combines some elements of soul and pop and maybe some R&B. But, like, Ray is for, like, downtown. You know, like, Ray is what the cool kids in the Brooklyn coffee shops, like, oh, no. Ray is, like, the geese fans who are like, no, no, I'm into Cameron Winter.

I think, but we didn't know until we heard the music. And to be candid, like, I get, where's my husband? Like, it's streaming like $3.2 million a day on Spotify. Fate of Ophelia is streaming 3.6, so it's a big-ass song. But it sounds a lot like, it's got a lot of single ladies in it for me, which I love, like bring all the single ladies shit you possibly can. Right. But that vibe to me sort of set, it didn't, it's,

struck me as a hit for sure, but not a song that I thought was, let me put it this way. I did not expect what the other 16 tracks on this album contained from what I heard from that single. That is absolutely true. It's a total red herring, which is really, really interesting. I want to talk a little bit about the Olivia Dean comparison, because I feel very vexed by it, because I am absolutely falling into the trap of going, of listening to this music and going, oh, she's good at this and like which Olivia Dean is, that's not as much as her strength. And of course we can have both and we should celebrate these people and they don't have to be inherently in conflict with one another. And certainly they don't seem to be. But it is an interesting kind of A, B of what resonates

because I get what you mean about the uptown downtown thing. You know, I find this, I find Ray to have some pretty obvious elements of just like personality and humor and individuality that I think make it easier for me to listen to this album and not be quite as caught up in. in the stuff that kept running through my mind with the Olivia Dean album, which was like, is she going to be an all-time great? Because otherwise, I don't quite know what the purpose is because it's so sort of classic. It's so, I don't want to use the word basic, but there is a, there's a simplicity to it.

It's vanilla, Nora, it is. And that's part of what I think people gravitate to. Yeah. There's some joy in it. It's easy. Yeah, it's very easy. It's like, it's comforting. It's a hug.

Yeah, it's, it's safe for churches and schools. Whereas this album is kind of difficult in some ways. It's incredibly bombastic. Yeah. It can be a little overwrought, but it also is to me really captivating because it is, like, these are big swings. Yeah. Like, there is, it is.

is operatic. It is theatrical. It is symphonic. There are spoken word interludes or like various elements of that on I think all but like two songs. Yeah. She's breaking the fourth wall constantly. She's breaking the fourth wall. She's doing a curtain call. She's doing setup introduction. She reads the fucking credits. Roll the credits. All right. Thank you to grandma, granddad Michael. My sister's Amaran, absolutely. She reads the credits. She's playing voicemails from her grandparents. Hello, Rachel.

Seems to be a while. Seems she's absolutely spoken. Like, her sisters are on the album. Fucking Al Green is on me. Han Zimmer is on the album? Has there been, like, what is the last album that had a bigger, like, one-two punch of a flex of features than Hans Zimmer and Al Green. Yeah. I don't know that there has. I mean, there are stretches of this album where you listen to three

songs in a row. Like, I know you're hurting, which has the London Symphony Philharmonic into Lifeboat, which is basically like a, it's an electronic, it's like a Fred again, electronic song. If you just listen to that, you'd be like, oh, this is like an EDM record. It's like a house beat. Inda, I hate the way I look today, which is like this traditional big band jazz song, which is crazy. She's like scatting and doing all the things. Right. And just that three song thing alone, it's like, what is this album? Like, where are we? Because it's not even like she's cosplaying.

I hate the way I look today. So I know it seems so sad to say, but today it's true and it was such a shame. It's that like she's fully in it with huge instrumentation and massive arrangements. And it just, it's, it very much feels like a Broadway play with a bunch of different acts and a different scenery and they've completely redone it. But she's still the star who's out front and center. But there, there is, it's, I'm with you. I want to hear more about your overbearing comment. Because for me, it is a very audacious and bold sort of album. They are all big swings.

And I love the, I love the audacity of it. Yeah. It's massive. Where does it great on you? So there are, let me preface that. It's almost like the places where it grates on me. I don't even really want to fault it because I will take the audacious big swing that sometimes goes too far. It's like it's the foul ball that if it had been 10 feet to the left and wasn't foul would have been like out of the park home run.

Yeah. There are times when she is dipping into the spoken word explication of this is what's going on, where it feels unsubtle to me. Lifeboat is a really good example of this. I don't need that song. I love Lifeboat. Oh, my God. Lifeboat is my blasted into the sun. No way.

I get that you're not giving up. I get it. Like, who are all these say that much other than, like, yeah, persevere. And I'm into, you know what I like about it is that she does have a background where she's done all these top lines for like house EDM kind of like remixes of pop songs and songs. A lot of them end up on like Love Island soundtracks. No shade. But I like that she's like bridging kind of that part of her background into this album, which is mostly not that. terms of the production and the overall musicality of it. I think that's cool. I think her voice

sounds very pretty in that environment often. I just like the sort of, it hits you over the head so much with the theme. I start to go, why am I listening to this? It feels like a suicide prevention hotline for you. Yes. Yes. I love it. It's like my second favorite song on the album. Damn. But like, so how, okay, fine. So how do you feel about like, beware the South London lover boy? I love it. That's not too much for you? Because it's like, I want it to, I want those,

I want that energy to like swell in moments and then come back. I think the parts where I get a little, like, bogged down are the ones where it's a bit in the middle. Like, I know you're hurting by the end of it I'm into because it levels up and you get that big chorus. But, There are, I just feel like, I do feel like this is an album that needed an additional round of editing and didn't get it. But I also would never want that to come at the expense of its audaciousness.

So I actually don't even, like. But that's why I think Lifeboat like really matters because it's a different, it just shows her in that genre. And it feels, again, not like she's playing a part, but that it's very natural and native to her. and stacked between those other two songs. I think it's very purposeful there. I get a little bit bored. I'll be honest. There's no debate over what the biggest song on this album is.

Where's my husband? That's the biggest song, and it's going to be the biggest song. It's not even close. It's been a long time since you and I have run through an album where I'm not done, but I just hit rewind and listen to a song that I just heard three, four, five, eight times in a row, and then finish the album. And I did that with Nightingale Lane.

And I know that it's out and that it's been out. I just hadn't totally heard it. Yeah. And that song destroyed me. Like, it is like just next level. That's where I was like, this is a special, special artist. The second half of the album, to me,

is better than the first half. I agree completely. There's a lot. There's plenty. that I like on the first half, but the second half, and I think that's part of why I go, I think the pinnacle version of this just had one more little edit because it does, the amount that you've experienced by the time that you get to some of the true highlights, again, you have heard, you've been in Paris, you've had seven Negronies,

the curtain has been pulled up, you've heard the London's, symphony orchestra. She has done jazz hall. She has done opera. She has done, we've been to the club. Like, it's, I don't, I love so much that this is a hour plus 17 song long album that asks you to listen to it front to back, that asks you to have an attention span. Like, all of that I am really for, I wish she made it a tiny bit easier. That's all I'm saying. Because by the time you get there, like, I do have this sensation of a little bit of sensory overload. Yeah, I felt that way on Beware, South London Loverboy, and we're only three songs in there. I was like, whoa, what is this? This is a musical. Like, everything just sounds big. Okay, I hadn't

fully prepared myself for like a Rogers and Hammerstein kind of album. And then whoops, she slips into the WhatsApp Shakespeare, which is a little more Destiny's Child. And I'm like, okay, this is a little more what I thought was happening. That is a song that I like. I think it's really funny. I think some of the lyrical content is the best. If we're doing tough love, when she gets to the punchline

in the last minute, which was when she's doing the like, the seven other leading ladies, which I think is really fun. It is so chalkful of personality. That is trading a punchline for what would ordinarily be asked to be

a moment of musical explosion or release or structure. I didn't side when I found out I was one of seven of the leading ladies starring in the new

romantic thriller. And the song doesn't have that. It doesn't actually, like musically that song doesn't go that many places. Instead, she tells a story and she makes you laugh and she does a bit

and you reach a narrative conclusion that you don't actually reach musically. Yeah, I think that's fair. And if I'm picking nits in something that I really, really like, that is, that's, that's a piece of it. I just think the whole thing, like, peaks at the top of Nightingale Lane. Like, she just throws everything that she has at it. And there's, like, a tragedy in that song for me, because it's like she's trying to convince herself that she's going to feel that again.

But by definition, the, like, emotive set of feelings that, created the song itself just to the outside observer seems impossible to ever be able to replicate. And in fact, no one's ever going to love you like that again. It'll be different. Where the backing vocals are doing the like,

are contradicting her, where she's like, it's never going to happen again, but then the backing vocal is like just tonight. I think that's so smart and it's such a cool song. She's doing it with the full symphony at Abby Road Studios. There's a video

of it. And I just, I was like, this one, this thing is real. Like, this is a real ass artist. And, and, and, and, and, but it's hard after that then to get, I mean, skin and bones is interesting. Yeah. The trumpet, there's some like New Orleans trumpet, soul, R&B stuff at the end of that. Then you're into where is my husband? It's like, God, could we put this third instead of like. Yeah. I mean, that is an undeniable song. Yeah, it is. And so. So it actually, that place on the album for me is helpful because you've expended so much energy through Nightingale Lane that it actually is a... It picks you back up. And then it sort of drops you into this little family section where I think she just, she brings on her sisters.

She brings her grandfather in to complete... I mean, he's a writer on that song. So I take her sort of literally when she talks about... wanting to make sure that his songs get carried on. It's a very beautiful thing. But at that point, I'm, like, tired. I'm not bored. I'm not bored, but I'm tired.

No, my reaction to Fields is, I'm so happy for you. I'm so happy for Granddad Michael. Like, two thumbs up, I'm moving on. Yeah. This is the part of the evening where we fall asleep, not try to go back after it. But then I actually think joy is really fun.

It is. And a great song. I do, I am like, I'm, whew. Yeah. Like you feel like you've run a marathon by then. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it feels like. But she does continually inject herself and her personality into those songs at the end in ways that are interesting. The happier times ahead is not a song that I'm particularly interested in, but I love when she right at the beginning is like, I need a band.

And in comes the band, right? Yeah. I need a band. Somewhere in the traffic on Bond Street. And then you get to Finn and. there she is reading the credits and is cute as hell. And it's like you just get to know her through the course of the record.

She is the like grand conductor, producer, writer. It's a thing, man. This album is a journey and in the aggregate, like when I step away from it, it feels on the level with the Rosalia album. Yeah.

In terms of its complexity, in terms of its grandeur, in terms of like its ambition. I was... I don't go quite that far because of the language element, but it's certainly, I don't quite know the timeline. I don't think, like, I think most of this stuff would have been either done or at least in the works. I mean, particularly because whereas my husband came out so early in September, but it at least feels notable that the Rosalie album came out this fall and then now we have this.

Like, the London Symphony Orchestra is very busy with women in pop music. Well, they're playing all over this record. Yeah. And I mean, where I'm going with it is, like, you have to be, we haven't talked about Hans Zimmerman. I know. What's he doing on this? Like, she just, she's scoring a movie, basically. Yeah.

I tried to look around and, like, find interviews or find information about, like, how, you. these connections were made, how these people were introduced to, like decided to work together, and I couldn't figure it out. She texted him. She just texted him. Sent him the song and was like,

you know, if you're into it, I'd like to do it. And they went back and forth and they did it. But like, why did she do that? I mean, this is a movie. It does, it is a movie from start to finish. Intentionally so. It's almost like an analog of a movie

where she's taking you through these different scenes. They're very concise, distinct. things. She's the common actress through it all. She's reading you the credits at the end. She sets the scene in the beginning. Like, it is a movie. So I get, it's cute that she brought him on. But like, then she's going to bring her granddad on. Then she's going to bring on Al fucking Green. Like, it just is like, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. Al from Memphis Tennessee. Al Green. Yeah. Like, holy fuck, that's Al Green. Yeah. It sounds like he's singing from Memphis, Tennessee.

he's a little bit in the background, but it's fine. But like nothing would have surprised me here. Like a Taylor Swift cameo would not have surprised me. By the way, did you see her intro, Taylor, at the I Heart Awards? Yes, I did. So what is Taylor doing at the I Heart Awards? I don't know. She's having a nice time.

It was just an opportunity to get up and say, Ophelia's my biggest hit and just remind everybody. I think she cares about radio. Yeah, she cares about radio. she cares about trophies and numbers. Did you see Taylor Nishon post? What better way to celebrate the last day of women's history month than with this fan edit Elizabeth Taylor video? Yeah.

Yeah, let's have a quick sidebar on that. There's a lot of people who are mad about that video. I'm not that mad. Like, I think it's kind of cool that she is lifting up Elizabeth Taylor who definitely does not exist. Wait, why? I was not really aware that people were mad about it. Oh.

Just that it's like not super high quality. That she's not in it. That she didn't work very hard on it. Well, I don't think that's true. I think she worked really hard. I think she's the editor. I think Taylor Swift was involved in the making of that video. I do.

I do. And I think it's purposeful. I think what's going to happen is like I buy the argument that there's going to be lots more interest in her archive of films because she intentionally clipped up a whole bunch of stuff and that that's going to accrue money to an estate that, by the way, you know, is and continues to champion the cause of HIV medication and helping people with AIDS. She was like a champion for that. And it's Elizabeth Taylor. This was not everybody's favorite song on the fucking record. Will you please make a video. It was one of my favorites.

Will you please make a video for Ruin the Friendship? Like Billboard came out this week and was like, Ruin the Friendship is number one. I was like, I'd never agree with Billboard, but I agree with Billboard. Rune the Friendship is the best song. I am an Elizabeth Taylor's stand. I don't care about this. I just don't, I think that there have been so many things since the album where it's all the different remixes and like the I immediately tune out when I'm like, oh, they're publicizing a thing that like Taylor is not actually in it. Right. They're trying to. This is another. But I. But that's not a bad. I'm just like I'm not involved in this. I just thought that it was a little

funny that they were like women's history month. Well, she's lifting up and celebrating an important historical woman. Yeah, I support women's rights and sometimes I support women's wrongs. I have to admit that I spent that entire video trying to figure out

which was Taylor dressed up as Elizabeth Taylor. And then it got to the end and they showed all the clips. I was like, fuck! But I was like, you know, you could sort of, if you squint, you could see it. If she, like, dyed her hair blacked through on the wig. Like, she could play Elizabeth Taylor.

You're not buying it. No. Why? Because I just feel like she is doing it. And this is her prerogative. This is all just trying to keep the streaming going. Yes, I think that there is a level of like

churn stuff out in a relatively low effort manner. Wow. Although I will say, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something that happened to me the other day. And maybe it's because suddenly it's like 70 degrees in New York. But I am like, I'm going to be vulnerable on the podcast for a minute. Nobody come from me over this. This is just, this is my

truth. Okay. I'm like going about my day. I have my phone on me. I have headphones in. And for what I believe is the first time since the life of a showgirl came out in the fall, I felt compelled to seek that album out and listen to it for no reason other than I felt like it. Okay. And? Yeah, it was fine. But that, like, first of all, it is a little bit notable.

Why would somebody come for you over that? Just because you're acknowledged. Because I haven't done it. But we talked about this. This was not an album we were going to go back to. I've gone back to ruin the friendship. I laugh it would. I've heard Opalite.

The video was... Yeah, I don't turn the dial when I hear it on the radio or whatever, but like I have not... It just has not made me want to go back and listen to it. And then I was just, I was, you know, doing some tasks. And all of a sudden I was like, you know what?

Maybe I'll listen to Opelite right now. Well, that's why I think when she got on stage and said, you know, it had two of my biggest hits or my biggest... referencing life of Ophelia or yes the fate of Ophelia sorry

fate of Ophelia sorry fate of Ophelia I felt like there is a difference between a song that does the numbers and a song that does some numbers

but Pierce's culture and I just I'm sorry fate of Ophelia is not a thing that like is the soundtrack to people's lives in a lot of cases. It's not one of her 10 biggest culture-moving songs.

Well, and also it's, everything exists in the context of its time, right? Correct. One that is a reference to just her overall scale, and there's always going to be a certain amount of just volume attached to anything that she does at this point. But also, if you turn on the radio, right now. Like if you, I sometimes listen to like Z-100 if I'm driving around because it's easy and also because like I'm curious what is going on there. Right. Like the amount of times that they are still playing espresso,

which is an amazing song. Right. But it's a years old song at this point. Like it is a current right now hit because of the dearth of those songs. Right. Of like middle of the road, zeitgeist capturing, but still fresh feeling songs. It is staggering. It is like it's golden. Right. It's Benson Boone. Okay.

Die with a smile? It's die with a smile. And it's like opalite or the fate of Ophelia. Look, that whole award show was a thing created out of nothing to basically make money. And the way that you get eyeballs is you get Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey in the front row. And the way that you get Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey in the front row is you spin the shit out of Opelite and fate of Ophelia to build up that sort of, it's a very symbiotic

relationship where she's going to reward them if they keep playing that thing because she's going to get the numbers. She will show up and give her, you know, celebrity to the event. And people will chatter about it online and talk about how, you know, and there'll be a few moments. That's what's happening there. I'm not like knocking it as bad song. It has an extra runway to have that sort of ubiquity because I just don't think that there's been like there's been a lot of stuff in the middle that is exciting but doesn't reach the level of the zeitgeist. And the ubiquity that a station like that kind of needs to be able to appeal to. and then what actually is up there has been limited and not so exciting

and therefore like I'm I'm happy when they're playing those songs because I would at this point rather listen to that than K-pop Demon Hunters like other stuff is more stale to me anyway this is not I didn't begin this conversation trying to you know crap all over this album at all it's not an album that needs to be crap done. My statement was actually that I had a nice time with it the other day. That's great. And that I was just sort of taking note of that. I think that's what it's about. It's a nice time. It doesn't have to be 1989. Yeah. It's definitely not. It doesn't have to be folklore. It's the life of a showgirl. It's fine. Those two songs are streaming the most at the moment of any of her catalog. Great.

But it's not cruel summer. It's not style. It's not. It's fine. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. And everybody can just appreciate what it is. It doesn't have to be the best thing ever. Because, as you said, you get a little spring fever?

Yeah, we're not. You're getting married soon? That's fine. Put on wood. Why not? I did. I listened to Wood. I listened to the first three songs.

I listened to, I will say that I skipped father figure, which I was sort of surprised by. But again, like, I was just in a light mood. Well, we're doing a Ray podcast and a TV. Taylor Swift. I know. A Taylor Swift podcast has broken out as sometimes want to happen. Okay. So Nightingale Lane to you is like major, major.

To me, that's like, yeah, that's the moment of ecstasy. I struggle with something, which is that I am, so this album is really not full of where is my husbands. There's one where is my husband on this album. And really, actually nothing else feels entirely of a piece with that. Correct. I think I'm happy about that because that has given me

some of the furthest reaching and most ambitious parts of this record. It surprised me. It had my attention. I just like, it's just been a minute. It's been since some of those albums in the fall where you start listening to something, you're just like, whoa, what's going on here?

Like, this is interesting. This is cool. You don't have to squint to hear the hit the way that maybe on Harry's record. It's like, well, is it pop? I think it's pop. Maybe it's Dance No More. Could it be...

American Girls probably doesn't totally get you there. This one... No question. This one has the big ass hit. And that's a thing that we criticize on a lot of albums that we think are sort of very rich texts, rich sort of fabrics of color that interest us. But if they don't have that big one that connects and breaks through,

at least I sometimes will knock it down a little bit. Because it loses an entry point for a lot. lot of people. Right. And I, and this is like, because that song is an entry point. And I remember, I heard Where is my husband for the first time in a spin class in the fall, like the morning it, because I think it was like a seven o'clock in the morning on Friday. That song had come out at midnight the Thursday before. I had no idea. Like, and I just remember hearing it and being like, what is this? Right. Like, so, I got to know what's going on here because this is something. Right.

And I don't want to say that it's my favorite song because I just like, I want to be cool and I want to like one of these other songs more. But it's your favorite song. But I think it's my favorite song. Is it because of the spin class situation? No, because it's just so good. Right.

But that's how I feel about single ladies. Yeah. It's just like undeniable. It's a totally undeniable song. It's like an annoyingly good song. I could listen to that song 50 times in a row. and not be bored of it. Right.

But I'll tell you the other ones that I'm really into are Nightingale Lane. We've talked about that. Okay, so you feel that peak in that moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't get enough of that song. It's maybe a little bit because of Al Green, but I love Goodbye Henry. Okay.

And I'm just, and I, like, I am sort of still just tripped up on this like, holy shit, she got Al Green. Yeah. Do you find it to be a sad song like she dictates? No This is a sad song Although it feels happy It is not happy at all

In fact I don't either No I don't either But that's fun Yeah I'm just sort of I'm also so excited about Al Green How am I going to be sad

There you go Well we strongly disagree on Lifeboat Which is fun Because it has been a while Since I really liked a song that you didn't like Is there other Like how do you feel like I hate the way I look today.

I like I hate the way I look today. But like, will you go back to it? Or is it kind of like, oh, here's a big band jazz se song that is vulnerable and? I think that it is in probably my, like, it's like around the 50th, the 40th to 50th percentile. But I would, I won't skip it. I honestly don't know if there's anything other than lifeboat and like, I don't feel that like having once heard the introduction and the credits. Don't need to hear that again.

I don't need to hear that again. No. I do think the line where she's like, she has no umbrella. She is seven nagronies deep. Yeah. Like really makes me laugh. Seven nagronies deep got me.

Good. Yeah. She has no umbrella. She is seven nagronies deep. And she nurses a whole. She is desperately trying to fill. Yeah, she's in Paris. And then she has the, uh, gosh, what is the song where there's,

Maybe it's just an I will overcome where there's a call back to it where she's talking about how she's like had too much to drink. And it goes very smoothly. And like for someone myself who sometimes rails against the presence of these things, my red high heels click, click for many two drinks, I feel my back on threatened. I don't mind. I don't mind the inn. intro, and I don't mind a lot of the spoken word moments in the way that I often do.

Yeah, you're super against interlude sometimes. So I will say that she's doing most of these differently, right? Because she has basically a curtain razor, a curtain closer. Correct. And then there is a lot of spoken word, but it is within songs. Yeah, but for me, it's sort of consistent with, it's almost like this is a one woman show. Yes, yes. And so she's taking you through it.

a cabaret. Like, it's Ray's cabaret for an hour and 15 minutes. And you kind of have to, like, sit down and pay attention to it and experience it. That's right. But front to back, you've got to be invested in the journey, I think. It does less well as just background music because it bounces around so much. Yes. But you have to be invested in what you're listening to. Yes. Oh, shit, this is the Hans Zimmer song. Holy shit, here's the one with her grandfather. And as you have said many times on this podcast, here's one with Al Green. Let's stay together, Al Green. Of course it is.

It's Al Green. But there's a real sort of blessing of her that is happening in that moment, that is important. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Hans Zimmer, too. Like, again, I am really impressed by that particular. particular duo of cosines.

Right. I think that's pretty crazy. I also think the other thing that I love about Goodbye Henry is I do think that that melody on the chorus is one of the strongest of the whole album. Okay. I don't fight you on that. I also like any song that wants to go out for the last minute and 40 seconds or so and just do like four different key changes.

one after the other. I'm into it. Especially when she can carry it with her own voice. I have a couple of questions for you, really starting with what she said about Taylor, which is that Taylor is in competition with no one but herself. Who is Ray in competition with? Because there's some things,

I mean, we've talked about the Olivia Dean thing. There's the operatic singing that you could say sounds a little bit like Rosalia. And as we start to think about Grammy 26, 27 next year's Grammys. This is an album that's going to be in consideration. The critical reception to this is one of the highest of the year. Yeah.

So I think that it is more likely to be in conversation and competition with Rosalia for Grammy stuff. I think more broadly, I don't approve of this, but I do think that she is in competition with Olivia Dean. Yeah. I just think that it is really hard to escape the two really exciting young women who bridge this pop, jazz, soul musical thing. And, you know, they're both from the UK. Like, I just think it's really hard not to put them in conversation, if not in conversation, if not in competition with each other.

The albums couldn't be more different. Yes. They both have a pretty big-ass hit, but the rest of the fabric of these albums is very different. Yes. I think that's all true, but I also think that their audiences are more similar, which is probably the reason it's happening. I think that Ray and Olivia Dean are competing for the same ears. in a way that has a little bit more overlap than Ray and Rosalia.

Like if, if Olivia Dean is uptown and Ray is downtown, I think Rosalia is in deep Brooklyn. What will you come back to on this album? Okay. So I will come back to South London Loverboy. Um, sometimes I will come back to WhatsApp Shakespeare. I think it's really funny. I think it's like hard to, very hard actually to do the balance of contemporary references and then the very period references without it getting super cringy.

And she's really good at it. I don't think that musically I will come back, like it makes me want to come back to it quite as much. But so South London Loverboy, click-clack symphony. We've talked about Hans Zimmer. We haven't really talked about that song specifically. I think that's like a super highlight. Is it like melodically interesting to you or is it just sort of like the journey of it? It's the, no, it's the journey of it.

That's what it is for me. That's an interesting element of a lot of this record. A lot of this record is that I think that's why I call out the melody on Goodbye Henry. She doesn't give you that many of those super juicy melodies. And ClickClack Symphony is an interesting example of like how she can still make a song that doesn't. have that engaging and effective. I also think lyrically, like, the who let the girls out, I did, I did, darling is cool. It's a sad sight to see Manolo Blonick gather cobwebs as a bar.

Jim, Jimmy, it's time to open up the closet. It's a side time to see Manolo Glanick gather Cobbweb. I also think that the idea of I'm feeling a little about a depression and I'm just going to get over it because I'm going to go out with my girlfriends. I think that is something that can a lot of people can really engage with and really like I can get behind that. But it's not a song that and of course the Hans Zimmer of it all and the music that you're hearing is so dramatic and so cool and like so it does psych you up in that way. It doesn't have it doesn't have that melodic element but I think it has basically everything else. Yeah.

And then goodbye Henry. Where's my husband, Nightingale Lane. Those are my highlights. Those are my big highlights. Yeah. This is a good road trip album. Yeah. Just to be like, because by the end of it, you're like, this is an amazing artist.

And you sort of understand why she's shown up on so many other collaborations and in so many other people's music as a writer and as a singer, I think the only question for me is like, does she need to pick a lane? Or is this the lane? Is the lane like look at what, look at all of the instrumentation and different participants and different genres that she's mustered into some giant jambalaya

that can exist that she could replicate an album two or three from here? It's funny because, I think it's driven by her enough, especially thematically, that it doesn't feel disjointed to me as an album. It cycles you through so much stuff that I do get the sort of kitchen sink, like everything has been thrown feeling from it. But I don't feel like, oh, she's over here, she's over here, like how does this stuff fit together? I do kind of understand this as a cohesive album. Were you into my 21st Century Blues at all? Her first album?

Not really. The honest answer to that is not really. Like, I've heard it. I like it. I probably like it more now going back to it with a little bit more fluency with her. She sang Oscar-winning tears at the Grammys in that spot that was pretty great.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you can tell that she's fun. Like she just is a compelling person. She's a little bit messy in a fun way, puts it all out there, definitely not afraid to, you know, with the exception of sparing Henry, his actual name. Right. She'll go there. If she does.

And again, I'm doing the thing that I don't want to do, but that's the thing that I feel like Olivia Dean doesn't really do. Right. But that was it. It was just vanilla, and I think that's what has made it successful. This is going to be the same idea. But I don't know. I think the cool kids are going to like Ray. Yeah, I'm into Ray.

This is an album that, like, I just, I don't know the last album that I listened to. And part of it is because, like, Lully Allen and Rosalia, those are artists who have been working for a little bit longer, or at least releasing full albums for longer. It's been a long time since I listened to an album and left it with just like heeping, such heaping piles of goodwill for the person. Okay. Where I'm just like, if you're going to do,

like, it's so cool that you did this. I'm so interested in what else you're going to do. Right. That's how I felt about this record. And so I don't know. Do you think she needs to pick a lane? No, I think she just needs to make art. Yeah.

Like just make art. I mean, and the reason I say that is this album has a giant massive fucking hit. So everything else that she does on the album around it doesn't matter. It's already paid for. It's already being propped up. It's going to get the attention that it needs. You're right.

There's not another hit single on here. I think Nightingale Lane is a thing that you should pay attention to, but it's five minutes and it's like a slow jam. But I also think, like, and I don't know, maybe you can speak to this from a data perspective a little bit. I think where is my husband just going to like have some. staying power. Yeah, it definitely is. It's going to be a billion plus song. So yeah, that's... And I think, but I think like, okay, so over the last few years, I remember last summer,

at the beginning of last summer, Amanda Dobbins, wonderful ringer colleague, had asked me, what's the song from this past spring of releases that is going to become the like, all the wedding bands know it and play it? Like, that type of song. Right. And the last one that had gotten there was Pink Pony Club. Like, espresso definitely got there and then Pink Pony Club got there. And I really struggled with the question.

I was like, I don't know. I don't know that there is one. And I think this is the next one. Like, this is, espresso did it. Pink Pony Club did it. And I think where is my husband is doing that? I'm not saying that I think that this song is Pink Pony Club, is espresso quite. But, like, that is quite something to be in conversation with.

You have so much wetting on the brain right now. So it's actually not why. It is because Amanda Dobbins asked me this question last year, and it's been, like, in my brain ever since. Maybe that is why, but I still think that it's a signal. Okay. Well, it's definitely your biggest song, and I agree with you. It's just like it's anything that's streaming three million Spotify streams a day, six months after its release, is you have a very, very, the slope of that decay curve is not very steep.

So people are going to continue to have it be in their world for sure. Well, particularly because it's not like it came out a month ago or two months ago. It's six months old at this point. It is six months old at this point and people are still listening to it that way. Yeah. What did you really not like? Because you like Lifeboat, which is my cut. Yeah, there isn't anything that I didn't like because I found it to be a really interesting piece of art.

But like happier times ahead, I was like, I don't need this right now. Like, I'm done. I'm ready to fall asleep. Thank you. We had great time. It's been an hour. I got to go to work in the morning. That's how I felt about half of your times ahead.

I was like, yeah, I get it. Okay. We covered some of this earlier. in the don't give up stuff on lifeboat and I know you're hurting and that was an uplifting message and the whole album tells me it's about hope.

Okay. Let me go to sleep. Yeah. It's funny. Like, I think I'm, I bump up against it more in the ones that come earlier because I think by the time

I met happier times ahead, I'm like, we're barely in the album. Yeah. She's just sort of. Yeah, yeah, that's right. It's, you know, it's like, in that scene when they make it too easy

in a movie or a Broadway show they give away that this is the ending like that we're getting near the end that's sort of what that feels like to me I felt meh about Winter Woman but I think it's okay it's got an interesting spot I felt just okay about Beware the South London Loverboy

but it's part of the texture of this collage that she's put together yeah I mean she's also funny like South London Loverboy lets her cracks some jokes, which I'm quite often. Correct. And then the kind of break down, the girls stay safe out there part is really fun. Singles stay safe out there, sing, girl stays.

Yeah, she's a, she's a girl's girl. There is a messiness to her that gets glossed over in other ways. And she seems fun. Like, I would like to go have a night out with Ray, right? Like, you listen to this album and you're like, oh, that's, would be a nice time. That would be fun. She seems fun. Get into some shenanigan.

And Olivia seems sweet. That's not something that I, that's probably something that in my heart of hearts I feel, but don't necessarily want to go there because I think it probably has to do with some internalized misogyny. Okay. Well, I think these are very different artists. I just think the, you know, receptivity to them is, it's going to be easier for people to slide into the passenger seat next to Olivia Dean,

but Ray is going to maybe be more rewarding in the long run if she can do all of this bigness. And again, there's nothing, if you just start with whatever track, where is my husband is, it's like 13 on this album. If you just start with that, you have no idea what's around it.

Yeah. So it's like, yeah, Why did it make me think of that scene in Sicario where they start opening the walls and slowly you see all of the awfulness? It's like that's it's the inverse of that. But like you just would have no idea what's in the scaffolding.

Yeah, it's totally like that. What did you, were there specific lyrics that really stood out to you? I don't know. I loved, I put in, there's a, there, I mean, I said this, there's a, um, a, uh, a, on winter woman.

She says, Tonight I kissed a bottle on the lips. I loved it. Tonight I kissed the bottle on the lips. It's desperate times of quiet, desperate pleasure. I love that as a metaphor. So great. There's a line from that song that I love,

and it's not that one, but it's also in Winter Woman. There's a bunch. Hard as blue, dress is red. Your text is green and left on red. Yeah. And that was great. That's the new roses or red, violets are blue.

Do you know what is Uber exec as a non-exec myself, just something that I haven't experienced? Or is that a British thing? It's a British thing. Okay. Because like, yeah, that's like they're Uber black. Right, like pre-pickup at the airport kind of thing. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Good to know. But like, man, somebody, it feels like Uber's got a music sync team that's working left and right. Like getting people, there's a bunch of other songs where people refer. to Uber's like I think it's just because you know Uber is kind of

the Xerox of ride chair I guess yeah nobody's singing about getting a lift this probably happened what do you think about like there

there are a lot of applications referenced at least to right? Like what? WhatsApp? Yep Uber

I'll see myself out I'm going home to crying private by Uber exam She's in the culture. This is it. Right. I mean,

at least she's not talking about like crypto. I think that is what is so impressive to me about the lane that she's carving because she is doing this

so many of her musical styles hearken back to something that we think of as like quote unquote, I'm doing this. doing scare quotes old or classic. But she feels very authentically contemporary. You just are so clearly aware that this is a young person living right now and making art as a result of those experiences. And I think that is a tough needle to thread when, you know, she even talks about being compared to Amy Winehouse.

Right. like being compared to people in the past. And so that's what I'm so impressed by it. Different stuff, but there's a throughline on Uber, which is that it reminds me a little bit of Audrey Hobert. Yes, yes. Who also references Uber in a song. But like there's a way that she's talking and speaking

where she's cramming in a lot of lyrics and speaking very much in what seems to be a highly accessible way to young people. What do you think is the better dating, pool. The world of young men, as presented in Audrey Hobart's album, as presented in Sabrina Carpenter's album, or as presented in this album. What is a better pool? Or which universe would you want to be living in? Yeah, that's the same thing. As a man or a woman? Just as that hypothetically. In the abstract. I think probably not the Sabrina world, because you're, you're, you're,

You think that's the worst. I think you're a pawn in that world for sure. Okay. Audrey, it feels very transactional. Okay, you're approaching this from a man's perspective and you're not able to not do that. How could I? My point is, if I were a woman? It's not looking good, Nathan.

It's not looking good. It's not looking good. No. There's not, these are, it does not seem like there's a great pool of dudes for these thoughtful intellectual women who can communicate their feelings. Yeah, it feels like there's almost like a regression in terms of somebody's ability to match

the level of people like this. It's a little concerning. I'm concerned. Color me concerned. Yeah, the apps aren't doing it for these poor women. Yeah, it's funny. She actually mentions a lot of apps, but she doesn't mention dating apps.

Yeah. I yeah we'll talk about all that another time will we well I just like here we are again though you know six months into the Grammy cycle

and I think I'm more of a fan of the Harry album than a lot but like there's no doubt just go look at the data like the streaming is starting to subside there yeah I'm sure there's some more stuff coming and some more focus coming on some stuff on that album

them, you know, I continue to think coming up roses and then pop and then dance no more is the heart and essence of the whole thing. Yeah, but none of them have, none of them have like, truly leveled up. Yeah. Let's wait and see when he goes on tour. Goes on tour and does that. But here we are again in a moment where it's women who are making the most interesting and compelling music. And they're doing it not just like lyrically, which I think you could have said in 2024, hey, I don't know. The Gracie album didn't set the world on fire in terms of its melodies and chord progressions

and just sort of, again, richness of the musical composition, but she was speaking in really interesting ways. But I got a Rosalia album that actually does that. I got a Lily Allen album that kind of does that musically. I got this album that definitely does that musically. And I just, like, what's on the other side of the ledger at this point? Fucking role model?

I mean, the Noah Khan album's coming. No, knock on role model, but like, it's not the same thing, right? And the Noah Khan album is coming, and I think that's going to be a really interesting one to watch. He's got his documentary. I think the Great Divide. It's like, if you're listing all of this amazing stuff, and then on the other side, I'm just picturing role model. This is my Sally today. Yeah, yeah.

Gemini's a good song. I'm into it. But will Noah? actually give us something that advances beyond, hey, this is like, you know, he's singing about the fact that it's cold and in the northeast again. It's cold and sometimes.

And sometimes if you're sad and that it's cold, then you're both sad and it's cold. Yeah. That's the whole thing. Double fingers crossed that he is able to do that because now we've got an Olivia record that's coming soon. And a song, so Olivia Rodrigo. So it may all get overshadowed again,

but I still think here we are in 2026, and it really is women who are making the music that matter. Yeah. Maybe it's because men are having too easy of a time getting dates. Well, this is where I was going. What's happening with men? Did you see? I don't think it's the guys having trouble getting dates.

I think it's them having trouble, like being... Being on a date? Yeah, like making it happen, like stepping out of the shell of their own anxiety and social compression from post-COVID. Did you see the paparazzi photos of Harry walking around New York, but he's like holding his phone and somebody zoomed way in and they could see that he was listening to the New York Times Daily episode

about like looks maxing and clavicular? Trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. I really, that moment meant a lot to me. as someone who also listened to that episode of The Daily. Is that right? Yeah. What were we talking about? Complete rabbit hole on this.

No, but my point was just that I think here we are, like, this, this music is another, like, we're not in 2024, but we might have a really interesting year of female pop music shaping up. Like, we didn't get something as bold and ambitious musically as Rosalia's album or as Ray's album in 2024. We got really cool melodic stuff that definitely mattered. We got, you know, the Charlie X, CX sort of experiment with, you know, with Brat and the ways in which she sort of used constraints to deliver really cool. I don't know, but it feels like we could with what's like. laying out in front of us finally how, yeah, I guess I feel like 2025

was a little bit of a disappointment in terms of stuff that made me go wow. And this album made me go wow. It made me go wow too, for sure. And if nothing else, it's going to be a really competitive album of the year, race. I think it's, I think some of that is like a little bit of a, you have to calibrate the discussion a little bit differently in terms of what,

like, super, super, super broke through. culture and there's different ways to do that. There's breaking through in the way that like, I think the Rosalia album, in a way, broke through. But it broke through to the sort of commentariat, like, people who talk about these things spaces. Have you gone back to it?

Yes. You really have? I mostly go back to Bergen. Yeah. More so than the whole album, but I've gone back to it. a couple times when I'm like hanging out

and just kind of want a baller soundtrack. I also have gotten a lot of random people into that album. Yeah. Who normally like wouldn't take my recommendation for something, but we're like, I listened to this and it was the craziest thing I've ever heard and now I'm obsessed with it.

Okay. Good for you. Thanks. That's sort of what your podcast is supposed to do. Yeah, but not everybody in my life listens to my podcast. Oh, thank God. I'm grateful for it every day. How'd you grade this?

Ah! This is like really hard for me to grade because everything that I, every critique I have, I don't really care about. Because I think she did something ambitious and interesting and creative and exciting. Okay. I gave it an A minus. That's what I gave it. And I gave it an A minus because it has the things that I want. It has a massive hit.

has a ballad that slays me, has ambition, it has, like, lyrical intricacy. I think the only thing that I get left with is, if you had to put her on a desert island with one of the genres that she dabbles in across this record, what would she take? And my gut says she takes, she takes Al Green and the sort of R&B,

like that that is the most sort of natural existence for her. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. I think she takes like the jazziest version of that. Right. Goodbye Henry, but with some jazz. Yeah. Yeah.

She should, you know, where she should pop up is, what did Miley Cyrus call Bamelman's? Bellinmans. Bellamins. That would be crazy. Malabalins. Yeah, she would do an incredible set there, for sure. I wonder how she's going to, so I think she has a show coming up at Radio City, which makes a lot of sense.

I'm interested to see how this tours and like what it looks like on stage. How it tours, yeah. And I am particularly interested to see if they are able to move the masses that are are playing, where's my husband at their wedding, into the complexity of the rest of this album. Does it function as an entry point? Because, again, the reason it has a minus on it instead of just a hard A for me is,

I don't know exactly where to put somebody who says, I heard that Ray song, what else should I listen to next? I would tell them to listen to Nightingalee, but that's a different vibe. Yeah, but it's also hard to tell them to listen to one other song. You kind of want someone to press play at the beginning,

but it is true that then I feel like I have to start issuing caveats. And that's why then you don't give it an A, right? When I feel like I would have to say, do it when you have time, do it when, you know, maybe you're making dinner you want to listen to something cool. That's exactly what I did last night. I had two high school friends over, and I made them dinner, and I put this on.

And after that trio, like after, I hate the way I look today, I was like, you realize this is the same album we've been listened to for the last three songs? And they're like, what? Yeah. And that's where the intrigue comes from. Yeah. But they're also like musical nerds. So either you get into that or you're like, yeah, that's cool.

But I'm not really interested in a big band jazz song. Can I get another single ladies part three? I want to know for touring is how much. like what kinds of instruments is she going to bring along? Yeah. I mean, obviously they can do, you know, they could just play it, and she can just sing, and she doesn't have to have an orchestra there with her. But it feels so important to what she's doing that I wonder if there will be any effort

to sort of recreate the feeling of being at a concert or like with a big band, even if it's an approximation with fewer people than that would actually. It's not possible to tour this without a string section on stage. Right. My gut says there'll be some pro tools like amplifying multiple cellos and there'll be some things that they've got to put on tracks to just carry it. But you've got to have strings on stage to give any fidelity to this album. Yeah. Which is, again, ambitious, right?

Like I'm sure that's not crazy, crazy, but it's still. It's expensive. It's expensive. It, you got to get people around if you're touring to a bunch of different places. And so like, it's also interesting for someone who, because she had issues with her prior label, like, you can tell there is a huge amount of buy-in to what she's doing based on the scope and the ambition and the features and the, all the people who are. playing like a lot of people said yes to her to get this made and that's exciting and good and thumbs up and people should say yes to Ray because she seems cool and smart and good at her job she's a real one it's a big ass album you should listen to it all right anything else

any more stray Taylor Swift thoughts to just like no no maybe we should go to Bamelman's Ladies and gentlemen, I feel like I have to, like, be theatrical now because of this album. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Princeati. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kaya McMullen for producing this episode. And to you for listening. We'll talk to you next week.