Every Single Album - 'Virgin' | Every Single Album: Lorde

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

After a four-year break, Lorde is back, and so are the synths. Nora and Nathan talk about her newest album, 'Virgin'; the ways it's a departure from her previous album, 'Solar Power' (1:00); the themes of gender identity and body image that she's exploring throughout the lyrics (22:43); and the songs on this record that worked less well for them (31:45). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Prince-Iatti and I am joined, as always, by Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, you are taking time out of an extra busy schedule right now to do this podcast. I am currently recording on the floor of my bathroom. Because I am moving. The things we do. I am moving. and this is the only room left in my home

that is not a complete and total echo chamber. And I say both of these things... Bathrooms kind of are echo chambers. Well, but bathrooms are... I thought bathrooms always, people talk about bathrooms actually having good acoustics because it's small. Well, they definitely do if you're recording an album like Lord,

but I don't know if you're recording a podcast. Hopefully you're giving producer Kyah absolute fits today. Oh, I hope as little as possible. But I say this to underscore... that we really needed to talk about this Lord record. And we've really gone to great lengths to ensure that we can discuss Virgin, which will be out by the time people are hearing this pod. We got a chance to listen to it a little bit early.

So we are actually recording this on the Thursday. The album will come out as tonight becomes tomorrow. So as a disclaimer, there's certain information about who produced which tracks and things like that and full lyric sheets that we have not seen yet. But we have had a chance to dig into this album from Lord, her first in four years since Solar Power, an album that we did get a chance to talk about on this very pod, which is cool because we're starting to get these records from artists

where we actually have a little bit of history on this pod. But since it's been a while, Nathan, I want you to tell me what you were in. anticipating in Virgin and what your early thoughts have been. Oh, I'm so bored with my thoughts on this because you intentionally didn't listen to this album and wrote a piece for The Ringer, right? About what we were going to expect? Yeah, well, I was writing a little bit of a preview earlier this week and I didn't want to,

like I didn't want to have to, there are some people who are really good, for instance, at watching a whole series of television, a whole season of a television show, and then, potting episode by episode and not giving spoilers. I am not blessed with that ability. So I waited until I'd finished writing that piece about sort of the setup and what people were maybe looking for and what the sort of scene setting questions going into this record were going to be. And then after I was done with that, I started digging into the music.

Well, but so what then were the scene setting questions going into this album from your perspective? Well, so I think, I mean, there are some basic ones in terms of what she's going to sound like without Jack Antonoff, who didn't work on this record and worked on a lot of melodrama and a lot of solar power and has been Lord's main collaborator for her last two album cycles and is not present in the credits of this record. I think also in the run up, there's been, you know, she's talked very openly about unexpanding. gender identity. She has talked about overcoming struggles with an eating disorder. She has talked about some pretty heavy stuff that I think has been, you know, front of mind over the course of the last few years of her life leading up to this between her last record and now. And I think another question was just, how is that stuff going to translate into an

album that I think I was getting signals was shaping up to be pretty inward looking, which to me is an interesting thing for Lord, because I think of Lord as this sort of like the bard of younger millennials and Gen Z synthesizing how people see the world in a way that is pretty outward looking. And in a way that I think intersected with how a lot of people. were little underwhelmed by solar power just because it was more head in the clouds than her previous two albums.

And so the idea that she was getting back to more serious subject matter, but doing it in this way that was taking a look inside as opposed to sort of turning the mirror on culture and society. We'll never be royals, meing the royal we. Yeah. Like was an interesting combination of new and old for her. Because even though these are new, this is a new team of collaborators, I think a lot of the signaling and then the singles at least nodded at her first two albums, but I think melodrama specifically. Fair to say? Yeah, I think that's right. So to me it was what's the old lord, what's the new lord?

And I will say that I came away from listening to this feeling like she's pretty in her feelings. Yes. And you got to be ready to be in her feelings. On first listen, I wasn't sure how are these things going to hold up in an arena? Because she has sold out her arena tour, like on pre-sale, gone. She's a big artist. And the underplays that she did a few years ago, in theaters.

She played like the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles which is like only a few thousand people. Like those, I think, were great shows,

first of all, and they reintroduced her in a way, not that she'd been forgotten at all, but just, I think it's set up what's going to be

a very successful arena run here. But the more that I listened and thought about those shows in the theater and how she

was able to sell some of these, let's just call the moodyer indie pop songs to a large crowd. Like, I think she's going to do just fine with this album, honestly. And, but it definitely is in my feelings album. And I wonder if you think that it would, like, was the marketing leading up to it a little bit of a misnomer in terms of that? Because, again, it's really coming on the heels of Charlie. I think we talked about this a little bit with Hime, another album where Terrence O'Connor was involved in the rollout. There is to me this very palpable.

We're learning the lessons of Brat Summer and following that rubric a little bit. And particularly because, you know, with Lord, she's involved in maybe the best song to come out of the entire experience of Brat and all that it became. Well, honestly, I was speechless when I woke up to your voice. Now you tell me how you'd been feeling. There's part of that that feels very natural, and then there's part of that as I was listening to this album, which, again, the subject matter here is pretty dark most of the time. It can be processed in ways that are beautiful and poignant and meaningful, but this is an album about someone who's had a really complex few years. And I don't think is quite at that place of like cathartic explosion that has often been a part of Lord's music. But is like there's a cautiousness in some of this where she's writing about sort of feeling like almost born anew.

And whether that's in a gender identity sense, whether that's in feeling healthier in her body. there's something that feels very, very fresh and innocent almost. You know, if you think of the album title, I think there's a relationship to that. But she's writing about almost being a child again a lot of the time. And to me, it was a little jarring just because I think that I had assumed, and maybe that's on me, that like we were going to the club a little bit more than we were. And is that just because, I mean, a lot of this started for me, the reintroduction of Lord started on Girl So Confusing, right?

Yes, yes. And what actually happened there was that album came out. And Lord called Ella called, like right away and had written that verse and sent it to Charlie. and the verse the Lord sang was a pretty direct open confessional description of exactly what you say, which is what she's been going through these last couple years and feeling uncomfortable in her body. And it was, and we saw her do it at MSG with Charlie. We saw her do it at Coachella with Charlie. For that reason, did you get a sense that it was going to be a little bit more of a rocker of a record?

I think, yeah, I think it was that. I think it was the, you know, just the feeling of getting everybody together in Washington Square Park the way that she did. The pop-up show at Baby's All right. It felt very of a piece with Brat. And so then I think I had to recalibrate my expectations. But I will say, if that gave me a slight. jarring first listen, the more that I spend time with this album, the more I feel impressed by it.

But I think it gave, I had to recalibrate a little bit to get there. Because you thought what was that is not representative of the rest of the record? I think that there are a lot of these songs that thrive lyrically and, conceptually, I do, if I have one issue with the album as a whole that I think has faded a little bit upon further and further listens, but persists, it's that a fair few of these songs feel like they, you think they're building and building and building, and they never quite release to me. There's a real elegance and almost a restraint, but, and can I give you? I'm giving you so much context to how I listened to this, but here's another piece of it.

Are you familiar with the play that is on Broadway right now? John Proctor is the villain. Yes, but I have not seen it. Okay. If you get a chance, you specifically, I think, would really get a lot out of it. I also think that your girls would really get a lot out of it. I don't want to spoil it, and I'm not going to. But if I'm, if you don't want even like the hint of a spoiler adjacent,

to a spoiler, a whiff of a spoiler. If you don't want to know anything about what happens in John Proctor is the villain, fast forward like 45 seconds right now. The song Greenlight is a very important piece of the play. And it represents this moment of like epiphany and release for a bunch of young women. And I saw it last week. And it brought me to tears. It was just like both joyful and poignant and sad and moving and such an encapsulation of what Lord means to people.

And there's such a release in that song. And it made me go back and I was spending a lot of time with melodrama, which I just think is an absolute masterpiece. That I do also think that I went into the combination of that and the combination of feeling. like the singles were nodding to that era a little bit. I went into this album, almost wanting it to do that, wanting it to be about those, like, moments of explosion. And that is really not what this album is doing. Can I pause you there?

Please. What does Lord mean to people? I really think that she is, if you are between, I don't know, let's call it 16 and 30. Like she is a real poet laureate for that generation. I think she has captured a sort of, like there is a sense of disaffection that I think she has been able to speak to in a way that still it allows people to identify with it. It allows people to identify with it together and therefore creates this community around her that people feel really deeply.

Like, I have a peak lord for you that is lord herself. But to me, the moment that I will remember from this album rollout and this era was when she was doing the, what was that release in Washington Square Park. And somebody tweeted this video of their friend, their friend's little find my friends dot moving down the streets. And the caption was like, L.O.L. watching my friend sprint to see Lord. And it's so funny because you can see, like, you can just see in the little dot that there is a young person just absolutely booking it as fast as they possibly can because they have just heard that they can be in a space with Lord. I don't think she even was able to perform because she hadn't gotten the permitting or something.

Yeah, they like shut it down. They shut it down. But this person is just like, it is the most important thing that could possibly be happening to them. And I will always think, like, I will always think of that

what I think about this album because I just, I think she really, she really, people feel like she sees inside their souls. Do you think pure heroin or melodrama

is the bass's favorite? I think it's melodrama. I'm not sure I think that, I think, I think pure heroin might be in some way the more remarkable album. I mean, Royals is an untouchable smash.

She'll never have a song as big as Royals, right? She'll never have a song, and I don't, and she may have never, never have a song as good as Royals. Like, Royals is, Royals is uncanny. Royals is unbelievable. But I think, like, melodrama has no skips. And there are deep cuts on that. album that all mean a lot to people.

Hmm. So I think as a pure album, it's melodrama. And so why was solar power a miss with the bass? Was it? I think it was a bit of a... I mean, I think it was a miss with a lot of people. I think it was a bit of a miss with the bass. I think to some degree, people care about her so much that the base will always be there

for her. But I think it was a miss because... Stone at the nail salon just doesn't resonate or, What? Maybe I let the nails It's so, it's, it's kind of head in the clouds, right? It's, it's almost like she's saying I'm going to choose not to engage with the things that people look to her to engage with. Hmm.

And there was the whole thing where she, you know, she threw her phone into the ocean. And I throw my cellular device in the wall. And she was disconnected. and she's just having fun on the beach. And that's, I mean, I think that's wonderful, but I don't, I don't think it moved people in the way that Lord tends to move people. And so I don't think that it's an accident

that she has gone back from that quite a bit. Were you moved by Virgin? Yes. You say that with caution. Ultimately, yes. I do say it with caution because I, I, there, so let's talk about some of the songs specifically. it's in like shapeshifter as a song that I cannot figure out how I think,

cannot figure out how I feel about. Oh, I love it. Okay. I think I love it. I think the sentiments are fascinating. I think the whole thing about, you know, how she saw written on, I forget if it was graffiti or a street sign or something, the like, do you have the stones thing?

And that became kind of this ethos for the record. I think that's really fun. I do have this sense that I have on quite a few of these songs where she's almost getting to this build. And every time she does the, like, I've been the this, I've been the that part. I think it is about to explode. and it kind of does in the end, but most of the time it pulls back.

And the end is like all too well chords all the way through to the end. I mean, it has a lot of that in it. There's, well, okay, there's a couple, there's a couple songs here where I want to talk about how much Taylor Swift is in them. But that,

almost getting there and pulling back, I think some of it was just about me recalibrating my expectations, but I do think that, you know, Lord is in, she's in the conversation with Robin, with like Carly Ray Jepson to some extent. These are these people who can just like create these musical bursts. And I didn't get a lot of that. And some of the songs like a shapeshifter where it is playing with the dynamics and going

back and forth a little bit. I just, I kept feeling myself wanting it and then being a little bit frustrated. that I didn't ultimately get it. It's interesting. I mean, I think a lot of this album is kind of classic Lord in its own way. I mean, it's Jimmy Stacks who does the production almost everywhere with the notable exception of what was that, which is Dan Nigro of Olivia Rodriguez and Chaparone fame. But I think I recognize the layered vocals and a lot of song that is rooted in these bass low notes, synth or bass notes that sort of hold, and then it's her layer vocals that are driving most of the

context of the song. I, yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I think that there are some songs that do let go. Like, I don't think anything's going to be as big as what was that. I don't know. Do you disagree? I wonder if Hammer, actually, I find Hammer of the singles the easiest to connect with. This piece in the madness

over our heads let it carry me a, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, ha, uh, ha, uh, and I think right now, now obviously it's newer for people, but on a daily basis, it's out streaming, what was that?

I do, I think it's, I think Hammer has a shot. Interesting. That one for me was just okay. I didn't love it, but... Interesting. We're kind of inverted, to me, what was that was good, not classic Lord? Hammer to me, I could latch on, too, a little bit more.

I also think, I don't think it's going to be as big, despite the fact that I have sort of weird feelings about it, I kind of think people are going to dig Shapeshifter. I think they are, too. Okay, cool. I'm happy for that. I'm just, I'm speaking my truth that I have a complicated relationship with that song. Yeah, and I'm glad that you are. I mean, I hear your point that there are not.

not like euphoric moments in these songs. That's a good word for it. Like another one is, is GRWM, which is very funny because on the song, it ends up standing for grown woman as opposed to get ready with me. Which like was totally funny to me and I think is very clever. But there are those moments. where it ends up going back to the wide hip, soft lips part. And every time she got there,

I thought that it was going to be rising in intensity and it pulls away. And so it's that sense that I got a little tripped up by on some of these. But that's not to say that that's not, you know, there's all of this stuff about being like reborn on that song. Maybe you finally know who you want to be.

I grow up mine in the baby tea And talking about how, you know, old versions of herself would see herself in a different way now and I think it's super interesting. I just my sort of my like id level reaction was, wait what? That's not what I thought was going to happen. Hmm.

Yeah, I think if I was going to pick like my favorite songs on the album, I like what was that. it a lot. I like Shapeshifter a lot. I really like current affairs. I'm really interested in David. Justin Vernon is playing electric and bass on that song. And there's like a lot that I want to unpack around that. I mean, she's got a line like pure heroin mistaken for featherweight. Like she's talking about someone from the early stages of her recording. And I can't exactly figure out who David is. I mean, maybe you've got a key for me.

Up a cut to the throat I was off guard. Pure heroin mistake. I'm a feather away. I don't. Yeah. I mean, that's one that I think I'd like the fan base to decode for us. But I think my favorite song in the album is if she could see me now. No way.

It's mine too. Yeah. I thought there was no chance that we would be in lockstep on this. I could feel. It's the most melodic of anything on the album. It's different. And it does have a moment where it peaks. But it is by far the most melodic of anything on the album.

I'm so glad you like it. Oh, my God. No, there is an immediacy to it. And I do think that it comes through in the melody that was really welcome to me, particularly, you know, coming after a grown woman and then broken glass, which is like a little bit of,

of like, sort of sort of text painting and it's kind of gauzy. And then it just jumped out of me. I think the sugar-sugar interpolation is so funny. Got me lifted. Feeling so gifted. And like clever and surprised me and I wasn't expecting it. The other thing that I kept thinking about when I was listening to that is like,

what is the Greta Gerwig movie that is going to snatch this up and put it on a soundtrack that I'm going to be like, this changed my life, I will ride for this song forever. I love it. Yeah. And some of it is that it does contrast with some of the rest of the album. Although, like, I mean, clear blue is basically like an a cappella song. And to be part of the dances I trip in my stumble, yeah, baby, I'm free, I'm free. Favorite daughters in that six-eight time signature, it, there, so there is, it's not, like it all sounds the same at all. But it is a, yeah, it is very much in its feelings.

And then if she could see me now, for whatever reason, just she's singing in a way that strikes just sort of melodic difference from the rest of the record. That one really stood out for me. Can we talk about favorite daughter a little bit? Because that one actually stood out for me as well in two ways. One being that it is one of my favorites. and two being it's not quite as much as the Gaga song,

but like this is a Taylor Swift song. Because I'm an actress. All of the medals I want for you. It feels like a Taylor song for you. It totally feels like a Taylor song to me, both in both thematically, but it also like, this could have been on Midnights. And I think it would have,

If you drop Taylor in there, I would have been just like, yeah, totally. I don't disagree. How about Taylor showing up in a Nashville bar deciding to just come out and sing? Oh, goodness. Two vodka crans in and she grabs Chase Rice guitar and fucking, let's shake it off, baby. Who needs a break? Do you? She's the best.

Okay. Okay. Let's detour for two minutes and talk about this, even though this podcast won't come out. for a week since we're recording this. However, do you think that was true... Do you think that was truly impromptu? It's a great question.

I believe her that they just worked it out. And the reason is that they did publish people were like, oh, look, she wrote down the chords. Those are not the chords. The drummer, those were the drummer making notes. And I think that they...

I think they worked it out in a little over three minutes, but definitely less than 30. I don't think she showed up. Here's the thing. She did show up in the boots, Nora. Yeah, but she's always in the boots. By the way. I know, but she'd been in like very different clothing.

You think this was planned? I did an event on Tuesday where a listener of our podcast came up to me and was like, did you see the green and white set at the Nashville thing? And I knew immediately what she was going to say. I was like, yes.

I liked that outfit. Sometimes I am a harsh critic, and I know this to be true. And so I just want to stay it for the record. I thought that seemed cute. And it's really hot outside, and I thought it looked comfortable. And the first time that I'd seen it, I couldn't see the feet. So, you know, you never know. Sometimes you think you're doing well.

But I thought that was great. But she did have the boots, which does make you think. I agree that I am choosing to think that it was spontaneous. is. Listen, she looked like she was having a great time. Travis had a great time. I never really thought that tight end you would be where they'd be in their element. But there they are.

Amongst large humans. Yeah, she really does seem to be having the time of her life at tight end university, which is a thing that I've spent a fair amount of time around the National Football League, and I was only vaguely aware that that existed prior to a couple of days ago. So that is really a testament to the power. Travis tries to turn every event that he's associated with into some sort of music festival or concert. And it's perfect. Now he just brings its own entertainment and just shoes are out there for a quick song.

And she stares him down in the best way and off they go. It's great. Travis said with love, I'm truly not trying to throw shade here. I can't think of a lot of people who enjoy the spotlight more than Travis Kelsey. Yeah. But I can think of one thing that he may enjoy more than the spotlight, and that is watching Taylor Swift in the spotlight. And that, at the end of the day, is why this relationship is so fucking cool.

Interesting. That's an interesting take. I'll leave it at that. Maybe it's good for him, too. He really loves watching her play. It's terrific. Well, and I would love to see her cover favorite daughter someday, because I think she would really...

I really... Because, you know, it's funny. Like, current affairs... I think it only takes two vodka crayons and she'll do it. It seems like that unlocks it. She walked out the back door with a vodka cron. It's the best. I'm all for this sort of thing.

I'd like to see her start jumping up and doing covers like most Nashville bands do. Like, just start... Jump up and start playing... Yeah, start playing this Lord song. Why not? Favorite daughter, let's go. You know, there's some amount of top singing in that, too. Yeah.

It's also kind of cool to see her like embedded amongst the, you know, she's still tight with, I mean, she's been, she wrote, you know, Chase Rice and Cruz, like, that's a, that goes back a long way for her. And so just the fact that she still is connected with the Nashville songwriter scene is fucking cool. Totally. Sometimes you can't go home again. Okay. Anything else you want to shout out as a, as a highlight for you. Otherwise, I'm going to. make you cut a song. Well, it's hard to cut a song because I don't have a visceral reaction to anything. It's interesting. I think the one song that you and I maybe disagree on is Hammer. Like, I didn't love Hammer. To me, it's like, if you're going to make me cut something, I'm probably not going to cut Hammer because it leads the thing, leads the album, and it's a single. So I'm probably in the Broken Glass or GRWM camp. That's sort of where I am. I went with GRWM as well.

Okay. It sounds like you got more out of current affairs than I did as well. I did. Okay. Okay. Can you sell me on it? That was another one where my issue was just sort of it's all build and no release. Oh.

I guess I didn't feel like there was like an energy release, but I was really into, lyrically I was really into it. I mean, this is where I was like, whoa, she's really deep in her. I love the line you tasted my underwear, I knew we were fucked. You tasted my underwear. I knew we were fucked. I think the male voice on this track must be the sample from Dexta Dap song Morning Love.

I couldn't find that there was anybody actually singing, so I think that's where that sample is played. So that feels right to me in this particular case. But if I can toss out a little conspiracy corner, gender and her feeling like she's embraced a certain type of masculinity is such a recurring theme here, and it's something that she's talked about in so much of the promo. I was curious if those harmonies that sounds like they're coming from a male vocalist are her,

just through some sort of filter. There's nobody else credited with vocal. So it's one or the other. Well, and because that, I mean, you get it a little bit on current affairs. You also get some on clear blue. Bars on my windows, you bustin wide open to clearness is all I see. That person, that entity, like, whatever is going on there is popping up a few times. And I really wonder, and again, like, we don't have the benefit of the full, or at least I haven't

seen the benefit of the full credits and everything like that. but I do wonder if it's her, which I think is super cool. Yeah. Well, she's the only one with a vocal credit on the record. So what you hear is her. Yeah, I just thought that this was cleverly worded. I thought that the chords were cool. I thought, yeah, it just sort of resonated intrinsically with me.

I agree with you about some of the lyrics on, some of the lyrics on current affairs are really strong. So I wouldn't cut it if I didn't have to. Did you have any conspiracies? I had one. It's that Lord got Taylor Swift smoking. Stop it. Are you serious?

All of her friends. Can't stop writing about cigarettes. Well, there is this whole discourse that cigarettes have, like, returned in culture and are now being used again as, like, a way to make people seem cool. It's not really my belief, but it was my belief with Haim. Is there a conspiracy? I mean, I guess your conspiracy corner is that a lot of these, that all of the male-sounding voices are Lord.

Yeah, I would call that more of an Easter egg. Yeah. I think that's right. Yeah. I would call it more of an Easter egg than a conspiracy. If I had to make you choose between Heim and Lord, who do you think did more to get? You also think that Maddie Healy got Taylor into smoking. Heim.

There's three of them. It's peer pressure. Yeah, for sure. That's the whole thing. Can you rank them of who did the... So Heim did the most, then Lord, then Maddie, or you want to flip that? I mean, six weeks of breathing clean air. I still smell the smoke.

I don't know. Maybe... I think maybe Maddie actually made her quit. Okay, so you don't really think that Lord got Taylor Swift was just smoking. You're just trying to mess with me. I think she definitely had a role in the early days. leave Taylor alone. I know.

You're painting this picture that she's fighting a battle on like nine different friends to preserve her lungs and her health. It seems like that is the truth. It seems like that that's probably in social situations.

She's surrounded by a lot of smokers. Watch out, Taylor. Travis, like, run some interference here, man. Travis probably smokes, too. I mean, we've seen him. He smokes something else a lot. Yeah, but I don't think he smokes cigarettes. He's a professional athlete.

No, he does not. That's true. And I think that was the transition from like the least healthy raw meat smoking guy to a professional athlete was very good for the world touring. Protect the voice at all costs. For the woman who had to sprint on a treadmill for three hours while singing her songs to train for her tour? Yes. Yes. Well, I think, you know, I'm really interested to see Lord go take this out because.

she is a you know I started talking about how she got rid of stage fright through MDMA therapy and that a lot of this stuff for her lives not in her brain that all of the brain therapy that you can do won't help but that a lot of her trauma seems to live in her body and as a performer she is an electric current in a lot of ways she just the way that she moves is you sort of see the music come out of her.

She is the furthest thing from Tate McCray as a dancer, but she is, yeah, she's sort of almost is exorcism on stage is too much because that sounds too herky jerky and like out of control. But she does have no, I know exactly what you're talking about because she has some of the movement patterns of the blow up guy outside the car dealership. Yeah. Like that's kind of how Lord dances. But it's captivating. Yeah, that's right.

It sells stuff that on tape maybe feels lower energy, but when you watch it come out of her, it feels more rhythmic. It feels like she sort of teaches you on stage how to jam to her shit. And that's cool. And so that's why I want to see her take a few of these things out. Like I really do think that she's going to sell if she could see me now very well.

I think she's going to sell shapeshifter. I think she's going to sell current affairs in really interesting ways on stage. And I do think that she's going to make a big banger out of what was that. Do you think that she will perform girl so confusing in any way? It's a great question. I would be surprised if she doesn't link some of that. Because I do think, look, Lord is an example of an artist who, if you just keep going, you just keep your head down, you do the work.

You keep, like, did she pivot after solar power? Probably a little bit. Did that cause her to retrench and think maybe? But, I mean, she put out an album pretty quickly. Like, it had been a while when we had solar power, right? She had sort of struggled a little bit with writers' block for a while. I think that's a long-witted way of saying, I really do think that the Charlie move was a spontaneous gift

and that is deeply part of her lore. And I would be surprised if she doesn't find some way to tap into that on this tour. Well, and because Charlie, to me, is the most important collaborator. Because I don't know, like, I don't know enough about the timeline to know how much of this was in the works when girl so confusing remix happened, how much that influenced everything that we're hearing on this album.

I do think that just in terms of building the anticipation, and maybe to some degree also setting false expectations, like it could be a little bit of both, that hopping on the remix just influenced so much of, whether it's this album itself or how it would, was perceived. It just feels like you can't really look at one without acknowledging the other. I do also think, like, you know, and maybe we'll learn the lesson of that song and not say

this as a means of putting these two women in competition with each other, but in terms of celebrating something that's actually really cool. I think the best lyric Lord has given us in this era is, I think about girl, you walk like a bitch when I was 10. Someone said that and it's just self-defense until you're building away. weapon. I think about that like twice a day. I still do. That song has been out for like a year. And it lives in my brain. I honestly think that it, like, I would choose that over anything that is on this album. The funny thing is I

think it's the best lyric on the Charlie record. And it's not Charlie's lyric. It's Lord's lyric. So like that there's a symbiosis there that I want to encourage people to see as something cool and something that holds both of these projects up as opposed to diminishing either of them. Which I think is how people are taking it. Yeah. Yeah, I think if we plot the graph of Lord, like you said it, she was sort of out and a voice of a generation and then in the clouds. And then she told us on that track, again, what she'd been going through and that she was

uncomfortable going out because she hated the way she looked. And that is a really hard thing to say publicly out loud. And then by the way, come back and do a full fucking album promo campaign and go out and do it. So yeah, she's been telling us her story very quietly since that thing came out. And I think that continues on this album. And I would, I mean, do you, did you have a best lyric that's different from me citing Girl So Confusing? Because I do have one from the actual album, too. Well, give it to me. I mean, to me, it's you tasted my underwear. I knew we were fucked from current affairs.

I knew you would choose that, by the way. I love it. I absolutely know. You were on a real heater with the hymn lyric about pooping in the back of the truck from being too coked up and then the eating the underwear. Unless I'm deeply moved, I'm generally going to go for the most ridiculous in this category. I did think from David, she says if I'd had had. virginity, I would have given that too.

If I'd had virginity, I would have given that too. Which is interesting, given that the album title is called Virgin. Yeah. Yeah. All of the art around it is inside her body and so forth. What did you think? I also found, you know, it's funny because I think musically I wasn't particularly moved by the song. But I think the idea that she actually nods out a few times, but on broken

in glass in particular, she frames her struggles with body image through math. So she says last year was bad. And first of all, I just love the frankness of that. Then she says, I let myself get sucked in by arithmetic. I let myself get sucked in by arithmetic. And then later she says, spent my summer getting lost in math. Spend my summer Get Lost in my

Making way And I just The image of her obsessively quantifying You know Her size, her intake Like there was something Very vivid

About that to me That even if the song Is not my favorite song Really stuck with me And I thought was powerful in a way That Lord can be very powerful. I think the kids

Are gonna love this record Yeah. You don't. No, I do. I think the base is going to love this record. I don't know that this record is going to build the base, but I think the base is going to love this record. Yeah.

And I think it will, and I think it will, the base will love this record immediately, and I also think that it will still grow over time for people. And I think that we will ultimately look back on it as a little bit transitional. Like, I think it's hard to look at Lord Albums as being transitional because she, she does take time between them.

So everyone feels like such a statement. And she has from, you know, from pure heroin when she was a very, very, very young person, immediately become this like wise beyond her years artist where. you are waiting with bated breath to see what Lord has to say. And then so in this one, like a lot of Lord historically has been very, she's a real confidence. Like she writes these songs where she's sort of speaking in absolutes or she has, you know, like Royals, she has seen right into the middle of these elements of, you know,

party culture and excess and whether it was the music industry or society writ large. And it's sort of captivating to hear this very young person be like, this is exactly what's going on. And it's funny now that she's much older, there's a lot less of that here. There's a lot more like all of a sudden I'm realizing that I have a lot to still figure out. and I've been through a lot trying to start that process. And she's 28. Yeah, she's still very young. But I think she, in some ways that feels very apt to me because I think when you're,

when you are younger, you kind of do think that you have answers that then over time you realize you don't. And that kind of nobody does. And I don't know. I just wonder, it's such an interior body of work. that I wonder if where she goes next ends up being finding a little bit more exteriority to it, if she is able to grow in her confidence in the self that she sort of currently is, as she's become healthier, as she has reshaped some of her feelings about gender

and how she perceives herself. I would be curious if that sort of re-enters the work. Yeah, I'm particularly interested in her work with Dan on this record because I do think to me, what was that is one of the strongest tracks on the record. And Dan, to me, is making the most interesting melodic pop music with female pop stars right now. And that is what, if anything, is lacking. I think it's why you and I are both drawn to, if she could see me, now, because it has, I think, the strongest melodies on the record. And so I just wonder if going forward if she gravitates that way, because this is not a Charlie

XX club record, as you said. It's not. It's also not a Olivia or chapel soaring, you know, there's no hot to go on this. And in fact, there's, you know, it's, in that way, it is still very much a Lord record, again, sort of centered on these layered vocals and, and the baselines, but, or, or the sort of whole notes. But I, I, I do wonder if, if next go round, if she did more work with Dan, if he might be able to coax her right of center towards the melody, the, the, the, melody rainbow. The pot of gold at the end of the melody rainbow. I would be really interested in listening to that album. Yeah. Selfishly, you know, I want Lord to do what calls to Lord, but I would be really, really interested to hear that record, and I bet it would work. Did you have a peak Lord?

Did I give you a chance to do that? What, what, yours was, yours was the Washington Park? I wanted to call out the Find My Friends, but the other thing that I think is just like totally her is where, you know, there has been this real about face where on solar power she was all about rejecting technology and that it's all over this. And she said in the interviews like, yeah, no, I'm totally, I'm totally on my phone. But she calls it the liquid crystal. The mess from the fountain is kissing my neck. The liquid crystal is in my grip. Which I think is just the perfect bridge between those two things. Like the phone has come

out of the ocean, but she's still finding a way to be a little bit like new agey Ella about it, and that really made me giggle. The liquid crystal. The liquid crystal. The liquid crystal is in her grip, she says. I'm not going to do better than that.

I'm so curious what you actually graded this record. I gave it a B plus. Okay. This happens to me sometimes with albums. And I actually think that usually... I think you think

think it's a B minus. I gave it a B plus. I think the lyrics are too good for it to be a B minus. I think there's some real like pretty, it also, it has grown on me with every listen. Like, it's entirely possible. And honestly, I don't usually change. Like, sometimes I'll, get messages from people being like, will you go back and do this album again because I want to know what you think about it now? Right. And usually in my heart of hearts, I'm kind of like, yeah, I sort of feel the same about it. Yeah. I wonder if this will be an exception.

I think this could be an exception to that. I do too. I want you to, when we're done, I want to go back and listen to Current Affairs because I actually think there's going to be some parts of this that really start to build on you because you are at the core of Lord fan. I love Lord.

I love Lord so much. I mean, this is also, like, I almost wish that I hadn't been spending so much time with melodrama before, like right before listening to this? Because I think it just set me up in a weird place, but it also set me up in a great place where I was just like, man, Lord Rules. Well, I think this album is going to be more welcome than solar power for all involved. I agree. I agree. I don't think there's a massive smash on it.

And when there isn't like the big hit that like has a chance to really take over and grab everyone in a unifying moment that makes it hard for me to give an album an A. So I gave it a B plus, but I think it's a really strong effort, and I think her tour is going to be an interesting cultural study in where that generation

that you talk about her representing is in this moment. You know, weird stuff happening in the domestic politics, weird stuff happening in geopolitics, just like, let's just take the temperature of that, core person who was like radicalized by

royals right and then who who got green light right out of the gate what is the temperature of that person and I think that's going to be inside the arena at the Lord Tour. Can't wait hope I'll be there.

All right. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Prince of Adi. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kaia McMullen for producing this episode. We will be off the next two weeks. We're taking a little summer break. But then we will be back and we will talk to you very soon. Thank you for listening.