Every Single Album - Will the "Beyoncé Bowl" Secure Her Album of the Year? And Other New Year's Pop News.

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Nora and Nathan talk about Beyoncé's Christmas halftime show, dubbed the "Beyoncé Bowl," and whether the first live performance of 'Cowboy Carter' will be enough to secure it Album of the Year at the Grammys (1:00). Then they catch up on some other pop news from the past week, including a scaled-back Grammys ceremony after the L.A. wildfires (24:59) and Heidi Montag's album 'Superficial' going no. 1 on iTunes after she lost her home in the Palisades fire (39:03). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J-Lo, Kanye, sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, colon the 2000s. Wow.

That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s, Colon, the 90s, Colin the 20s. in the 2000s, preferably on Spotify. And welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Princeati. And as always, I am joined by my very dear friend, Nathan Hubbard. And you may have noticed, if you regularly listen to this show, thank you very much,

that we are back from the holidays a little later than expected. And that is in part because I am so very proud to do this pod with two amazing and very proud Los Angeles who have been through the pretty unimaginable over the last week, Nathan and Kaya. And so I'm so happy to see both of their faces on this Zoom. Sorry that you guys listening to this, can't see them, but they look great. And to welcome Nathan back in, we're going to talk about everything that we missed over the break and a little bit more than that. We'll touch on the Grammys and some other stories. However, first, Nathan, not to ask a loaded question, but how are you doing? I'm alive, Nora. That's the good news. We've had a hell of a week. Yeah, we've had a heck of a week.

We lost four houses across my family and we have all sort of retreated east to Palm Springs where I'm doing this pod with you to regroup and figure out where we go from here. And I don't know, and I talked about offline, like nobody died. We're okay. And we're going to, the only way through it is forward. So that's where we're going. I'm super worried about all of the service workers who just had their entire jobs and income like melting down literally. And I'm super worried about the first responders who are in an apocalyptic war zone right now that I think we're still going to be learning about just how bad the air quality and the toxins and carcinogens and everything are going to be. And there's a lot of people who need help. And so in the grand

scheme of things, we are just fine. And, you know, but certainly with some wounded hearts and heavy hearts and a whole lot of gamut of the emotions. But I have been scrolling, Nora. I've had plenty of time to scroll. and watch videos and try to stay on top of the ridiculous machinations of pop culture that we get to talk about today. Well, I'm sure we're all going to reap the benefits of that scrolling

over the next however many minutes it takes us to do this pod. But I will just say that I think everyone who listens to this show is the beneficiary of Nathan as just a generally big-hearted human being. and that extends to an entire family and kids that he so obviously loves so much. And I am just incredibly sorry for what you've had to go through and are going through. I am also incredibly proud of you. I also was, you know, brought to tears by a text message that you sent me and Kaya in which you shared the piece of information. that along with your Taylor Swift sweatshirt,

one of the very few items that you evacuated with was... My podcast equipment. And like, if I didn't love you so much for it, I would be like, what the heck are you doing, man? Like, we can ship you that stuff. Well, it's so weird. Like, the choices that you make in that moment when you're running out of your house.

I mean, like, I have a really big family in the Palisarius. And so I had like four old people that we had to figure out how to rescue and a bunch of kids and all the dogs that I've rescued who really should be like serving me dinner these days because holy shit. Try bouncing from Airbnb to Airbnb with rescue dogs. But yeah, I mean like as you're like the fire is coming down the hill and I saw it super early. and we don't even need to go into that fireman Nathan does not need to have his own podcast at this moment. But like as it was coming down the hill, it just was so hard to believe that you weren't going to be back in relatively short period of time. And you and I were supposed to pod that day, like Kaya and you and I were going to get on a Zoom and basically have the conversation that we're going to have today without the whole my house burned down part. But you just sort of walked through your house and you're like, okay, I need I need like a change of clothes.

And who knows where we're going to be and it's chilly out. So, yep, Taylor Swift sweatshirt. Like, I don't want that to burn. I'm going to grab that. I need my computer. Yep. Okay, here's an overnight bag. And, geez, if the fire really got here, I would be super bummed if my guitar burned.

This one guitar burned. So let me throw that in the trunk. Fine. Got my passport. And, oh, shit, maybe I'm going to get to pod with Nora and Kaya today. So let me throw the shit in the trunk, too. And I just, like, stuffed it in the back. and just like sat there.

It's been sitting there for a week back there waiting to be used. And so it is funny what you grab on the way out. And this was one of those things. And as I said to you, like, it's a reflection of how much spending this time with you and Kaya and the audience means to me. So great. Let's fucking pod. Yeah. I guess we got to make it a good one.

No, we don't. I can't take that kind of pressure in this moment. I'm talking to insurance people. I believe in you. I believe in us. I believe in Kai. I think you can do it. And we're starting strong

because we're going to talk about Beyonce. Oh, yeah, we are. Major over the holidays ketchup item number one was the Beyonce halftime show on Netflix, on Christmas Day, in the middle of Ravens, Texans,

which I believe was seen by 27 million roughly people, which was more than the game itself, came off as like a whole Super Bowl halftime show. Fuck yeah, it did. It was up there for me

with one of her best performances ever, and it seemed to be an interesting bookend to the JZ speech. Actually, he did not talk about Coachella in that speech at the Grammys, but he around that speech the Grammys. He talked about the Coachella performance as being one of the

most culturally impactful of all time, right? Probably up there with the Beatles in the stadium in New York. You know, probably up there on the Woodstock side I think. That was the level of reverence that I think that performance at Coachella had. Now,

this was not quite as intricate and it was obviously shorter. A lot shorter, obviously. But we have the benefit today of a whole lot of the, every single individual journalist in the stadium had their phones up. So we got to see sort of her off-camera movements and the logistics that it took to put that thing together. And wow, I mean, it was tremendous. It was mind-blowingly awesome. The logistics of it, how you pull that together and the rehearsal of it, that thing is a delicate ballet. And it was,

was a really big moment. I mean, I think with all that said, I mean, I want to hear your thoughts on the performance because it's everything from Posty doing Levi's jeans to... On a denim truck. Yeah, to all... I mean, there's so much to talk about in the detail that, you know, at this point has probably been warmed over a bit. But I think if you distill it down, the question is, was it enough to convince people that, oh, yeah, Cowboy Carter is an incredibly important piece of art. This is an all-time, once-in-a-generation artist in this way. And we are going to vote for her for album of the year, because that's what this was, wasn't it? Nora, I mean, this was her closing statement in the trial of Cowboy Carter. I think so. That's complicated by the fact that she then

post this sort of teaser video that there's going to be an announcement on coming on January 14th. That's actually today as we're recording this. But votes are all in. The votes are all in, yes. And so this was not going to, this was not, whatever was supposed to come on the 14th that she's now postponed. No one could vote for it. Okay.

Okay. It was not going to affect how people voted, which made me wonder if it was going to be an album. What I have to say is I've heard no chatter about it being an album. I mean, I think there's lots of speculation in the fan base. This is the third one. And perhaps that's what it is. but you haven't heard the little industry people peeping about Beyonce's going to drop the, you know,

rock album that has been speculated. Act three. Okay. Interesting. I mean, I hope she does. But I still think. It could be a tour. I still think, yeah.

I've seen a lot of jokes going around that she could just announce that she's vegan again. Which she could announce she's pregnant again. Who knows? But like it feels like it was less of a. this is about me and this is about something than it was, this is about something bigger. But I do want to ask you, like, was that performance enough

to bring Cowboy Carter back to the front and bring it past Billy Elish, bring it past Sabrina Carpenter, bring it past Chapel Rhone? So I thought it was an amazing show. My first takeaway, you know, the first watch, I'm not thinking about the Grammys,

I'm just thinking about like, oh, this is really fun. And it feels maybe this is my sort of like NFL bias. I was just like, that was a Super Bowl halftime show. For sure it was. We're sort of like taught and conditioned to think that the Super Bowl halftime show, it's like, you know, the J-Lo and Shakira one, they did an entire documentary about the making of it. It's like people train.

It's so complicated to put it all together. And like all of those things are true. But you interpret that as like, this can only happen one time a year. It's too hard. Like we couldn't do it for any other games. And then it's just like, oh, if you just call Beyonce, she'll just make that happen.

Yeah. So to me, that was like, I was sort of overwhelmed by that almost the first time that I watched it. As I, but I did wonder what is the relationship of this performance to her Grammy campaign or lack thereof? I got to be honest, I don't, I'm not sure. It was enough?

Matt, yeah. Just because it was incredible. Yeah. But what about that show? Did you sort of not know that she was capable of before? Nothing. But she hadn't taken it on the road. Every other artist who's nominated this year, even the, well, I guess maybe not the Andre

3,000 flute album. But like basically everything that matters. we got a tour. So we got to sort of test out the way that those songs resonated with people. We got to see it in the flesh. Cowboy Carter came out

and she actually really didn't do the work that most artists tend to do. Let's unpack that in two ways. I think there are like two types of voters who might not back Beyonce this year. And category one are people,

I'm not speaking about individuals, I'm just generalizing. Who I think their issue with Cowboy Carter is it's just not their favorite album this year. But there's just stuff that they think is better and they think what they're supposed to vote for is the album that they think was the highest quality this year. And maybe they think that's Billy Elish. Maybe they think that's Brat. Maybe they think that's Taylor. Like whatever it is. Yeah.

Category 2, and there's probably overlap in this in some cases, is the sort of, well, she didn't do the work. crowd to the extent that that that. But what does that mean? They're resenting that she didn't do the work? Well, I don't know. Or they just didn't get enough information to understand the greatness of the album and the way that people responded to it because they didn't get to see her put those songs out there live?

I guess I'm looking at that a little bit more cynically than just like there wasn't enough that happened for it to totally click. Yeah. Just because I'm just trying to think of what she could have done. Because I don't know that I felt like I learned about Cowboy Carter necessarily from this performance. I mean, I did in the sense that it was really, really fun. Like, it was so fun live. And the way that she put those songs together just had, like, had an energy and were sort of exuberant and theatrical in a way where,

if something that bogged you down in the listening experience of Cowboy Carter was sort of feeling like it was this almost dissertation on American musical history, maybe seeing it brought to life in that way lets you look at it in a different way. I didn't have that experience listening to Cowboy Carter, so it wasn't a new thing for me watching it happen.

But I suppose if that's what somebody's hesitation with the album was, that could have made a difference. The thing I'm wondering about is, like, if there's just a little bit of a sense that she hasn't campaigned, this is still, like, everything that she does, and I give her credit for it,

so on her terms, it's not Beyonce going around to, you know, Grammy's affiliated spaces. It's not Beyonce on Kimmel. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, she's just never going to do that. This is like... She doesn't have to, yeah.

She's going to do the Beyonce Bowl. Right. But I wonder if, I don't really think it's fair to knock her for that. I do think sometimes she gets knocked for that. If she's getting knocked for that, and I don't know if she is, but if that's the thing,

I don't know that this changes that person's opinion. It was a remarkably... For a highly political album, it was a remarkably apolitical performance. In my view, I mean, she brought in the four young black country singers. she, you know, there were a few people with American flags in their pocket. But if you go back to the Lemonade era and when she came out with Coldplay at the Super,

like, this is something different than, hey, ladies get in formation. And I wonder if that was by design. It was interesting to me. She doesn't have to put it in people's faces because, again, the reaction is not so much to red state, blue state, the politics of it, it really, to me, was black woman

pop star, R&B star, injecting herself into this genre. How does everybody react? And the fact that it was sort of all in white to me felt like that blank canvas that let everybody put their own color, pardon the pun, into the situation,

like paint your own, you know, does this feel normal? Does this make you uncomfortable? does it, all of that, the sort of art of the performance felt like that, letting people interpret it as they will almost a Roarish Art test for them. When it has the same sort of dynamic as the album, as this like country insider outsider dynamic where she's sort of making this case that actually, you know, the ultimate country insiders have been for. forgotten in music history and in these ways and she's shining light on that. But then she is obviously not of Nashville in the way that we think of country music now. And I think you can see

that a little bit in terms of like, okay, Beyonce's from Houston. Like this is her turf. This is like incredibly native to her same thing with all the horses and stuff. Like she grew up in that. It is also, it's the NFL. It's Netflix. It's. It's. It's. It's. territory that it is meaningful for her to just say like, I can on my own own this space and have it be every bit as big of a show as the halftime show that you guys make such a big deal of putting on in February. And more people are going to be watching me than, you know, your little game. So like, There's tension everywhere. Yeah, it also is the formalization of what Taylor Swift,

and I don't mean to say in any way that what Beyonce is doing is derivative, but it is the formalization of what Taylor Swift started a year ago, which was tapping into the NFL audience and the passion and focus of what is the most popular television program in the United States, which is the NFL, and, you know, Taylor sort of unofficially and indirectly tapped into that audience and created broader exposure to her own work that way. This is now Beyonce saying, hey, it's not just the Super Bowl. And it can happen anywhere.

And I was ready to say, I mean, I think there's a debate here, which is who benefited more. And the fact that more people watch the Beyonce show than the game, is a very, very, very interesting stat. Which will only increase, by the way. And now, look, it's not that dramatic. I think their average view, I think the average that they put out, and this is with the caveat that Netflix viewership stats are always notoriously kind of wonky. Wonky.

It was 24 on average when the game was on, and then it spiked to 27 for the halftime show. But that 13 minutes, which is about the length of a normal Super Bowl halftime show, is now preserved as a standalone video that you can watch on Netflix, the Beyonce Bowl. And so millions and millions and millions of people are going to watch that and rewatch that. And anytime they want to go see something from Cowboy Carter done live, that's there. Yeah. And so I love the artist empowerment part of that. I love the innovation of it, which is, there's been people who've said, hey, the artists have usually performed for free at the Super Bowl.

And the question was like, should they be paid? Or should artists be paying the NFL? Who actually brings the bigger audience, right? And the numbers are interesting in that regard. You take one of the biggest brands in America on the music side and put it with the biggest brand in America on a lot. entertainment overall and look what happens. So I'm excited about it because there is a artist power part of this that I think is fun. It's just a remixing of culture, which is exactly what Cowboy Carter kind of was about, which is that you don't have to pick a genre in music. You also don't

necessarily have to pick a genre in entertainment. And the more that we get to blend these big TV sports moments with interesting, meaningful concerts, not just like that, that incredible YouTube video of when Creed played the Dallas Cowboy halftime show. And he's like flying around and saying, can you take me high? Can you take? That is an all-time low. And, you know, and with all of the advancements in production and design and how the live experience bar has been set so high, in part because of what Beyonce has done, in part because of what Taylor has done. And just to me, the venue itself becoming a canvas, the broadcast itself becoming a canvas for the art, all of this opens really interesting new doors to creativity.

What did you think of Postie in the denim truck for your favorite song? I loved it. And I was yelling about it as soon as I saw that fucking truck. I was like, Post is here. He's coming. He is absolutely going to be there. Yes, we're going to get Levi's jeans. And that's how it should be.

Post Malone, how many opportunities to take part in an event or an appearance have been offered to Post Malone in the last year that he's turned down? He doesn't say no a lot. It's interesting. It's very charming. It is really absolutely very charming. And if he were going to say no to. to something, I have a feeling that Beyonce would not be the person he's saying that to. No, no, you don't say no to Beyonce, ever.

It just, he does show up to an awful lot. Hey, man, Post is here for the fun. That's, that's part of the brand. He just got to not be like Uncle Cracker. Like, Uncle Cracker suddenly started showing up everywhere. And he was just like, like, he'd show up at your local Denny's for like a fucking waffle eating contest. You just got to make sure.

we talk about Miley a lot on here Miley picks her moments you'll see Miley if you see Miley it matters Yeah and so I wonder if Miley got the ask You know That was the big question for me And I am still bummed that we didn't see

Miley there Because I will say I think the one thing That might have made me feel like Oh she's She's really kind of lobbying Through this performance would have been, and the appearances were great,

but it would have been if, you know, you had real dolly instead of Ghost Voice Dolly. It would have been like if she had brought in all of the co-signers to kind of drive home. It's a lot to ask somebody.

Look at everybody who's supporting me. Look, it's a lot to ask somebody to give up Christmas and go to Houston. True, true. I think that she probably picked her battles there wisely because she was probably going to get a know from that broad field of people. But look, I have no notes, as Farrell said to Maggie Rogers, on that experience. Like, it was terrific.

And I loved a performance. And the one thing that I will confess is that I did not track how the odds shifted in the betting markets on album of the year. My general sense is that it probably didn't move Cowboy Carter ahead of the Billy Elish album. I tracked it a little bit and I think that's correct. I think Billy is still the favorite. Yeah. And I do wonder how the, there's a lot of the voters in Los Angeles is the truth on the recording. They're around the world.

But like I do wonder how the events the last couple weeks will affect whatever votes were still trickling in, although I think it was closed. by then. So maybe that's a dumb thing to say. My point is just like, I don't know that the Academy voters at the end of the day were fully swayed by that is my opinion. I think it was a tremendous performance that made me excited about the art. And I think if you really get underneath the third and fourth layer of what Cowboy Carter is, if you do the work, it becomes a really, really exciting album that I think is worthy of the Grammy for album of the year. If you don't do the work, Beyonce also didn't do enough work to invite you in to understand its depth and to challenge your thinking and to bring you into it. And I think there will always be a part of me if she doesn't

win album of the year that will wonder that if she had done a little more of the work and gone out and helped to really challenge America in this incredible last 12 months that we've had to look itself in the mirror and take note of the way it reacted to a black woman who is the most nominated and awarded artist of all time at the Grammys out of nowhere dropping a country album that is a history lesson of country music as well in a moment in which country is on the rise driven largely by white artists they're just in an election year like there was a lot there that in my heart of hearts, I feel like, didn't properly get understood by the listening public.

And at the end of the day, if you don't go out and do that work, you're putting a whole lot of faith that the art is easily accessible and interpretable in that way. And, you know, I think the numbers say that the core fan base loved it, but I'm not sure that all of America got the treat that was that challenge about who we are. What would that have looked like is my only question? Is it more of a discussion from her leading listeners to what this is?

So she's popping up on Instagram, talking about the songs. Yeah, or doing the shows, doing a round of the shows. I know Taylor didn't go do the shows, but you know what? We don't need somebody to tell us what Bedet, but Daddy I Love him is about. Or I can do with the broken heart. It's all right there. There aren't multiple layers. she wasn't giving us a history lesson.

She was opening her diary. Beyonce, there's more work to do there. And I just think you have to engage with audiences and find those touchpoints and then empower other mavens in the social network with that information and insight so that they can go out and tell those stories for you.

And I'm just not sure that it happened. And I wonder, I wonder, if Beyonce of 15 years ago or 20 years ago would have done that, work, especially given that starting with the speech that her husband gave at the Grammys a year ago, he knew this was coming. He'd heard this album, and he clearly believed very passionately that she was worthy of the award that she may or may not get. I just, I'm always going to wonder what happened here. Did she just decide I don't want to do it? Did she consciously decide if I inject myself into

the dialogue that fucks with the art itself? The point of this is to see, I put it out there and let's see what people say. Let's see how it's reviewed. Let's see whether people actually engage with it at the level. That may have been her purpose, in which case, Godspeed, it just might have cost her the Grammy that it seems like she really wanted. And I think consensus would be, at some point in her career, you would think that she would have deserved it.

Well, that's the other question to me is, and I think reasonable people can disagree on this, It's like, I tend to be okay with a little bit of, with a lifetime achievement award from the Grammys or the Oscars or the Emmys or whatever, like here and there. But some people aren't. Some people really don't think that that's the way to do it. It's what was the best album from this year. Yeah. If that means that you're going to create a historical record of what you awarded that is not going to reflect all of the.

the music that, you know, stands the test of time, then so be it, I fall a little bit on the other side of that, I guess. But I do think that there are a lot of people who feel differently from that and probably some of them vote for the Grammys. Yeah. And, you know, there has been, as you get ready for Trump to take office, a lot of backlash against DEI and, you know, companies changing their policies. And if she wins this fairly or unfairly, there will be cries from some sections that it was a participation award, that it was a, we've got to give this because she is the most awarded and nominated artists of all time, not to challenge that she got those artists, those nominations for anything other

than her accomplishments, but that she got album of the year as the Lifetime Achievement Award and not because she actually deserved it. I can make a very very, very, very strong case for why Cabboy Carter should be album of the year. But I think that, as we have talked about, still, this is one of the most important decisions that the Grammy voters will ever make, because it will create an existential crisis for these Grammys if Beyonce doesn't win among some sections of very important artists that contribute meaningful art to the world, who are already feeling marginalized and like it's not even. even worth showing up.

And the flip side is, as we just discussed, if she does win, there'll be some backlash against what. I just, it's going to be fascinating to see what happens. Well, and that's why I think the conversation about what she could have done to go out and sort of explain it to people and campaign a little bit more is really interesting, but it's, I think it's tricky because they just think that there are, there are some bad faith arguments that are made about Beyonce. say. There are some reasonable arguments that include her potentially not winning in this case,

but there are also a lot of bad faith arguments made about this album, made about this woman. And so I can see how wanting it to just speak for itself was what she chose. But at the same time, I also think that there have been a lot of sort of confusing things that have happened in the timeline of everything that she's rolled out in Act 1, Act 2 of this project, right? Like the fact that the Renaissance visuals are an open question, like, things like that. There have been things where it seems so natural for Beyonce to go do something, and she just hasn't done it. So, you know, we'll see what she ends up announcing. It's just a fascinating study of the music industry, the way people vote, artists at different phases of their careers in a moment that,

and I hope that all the bluster around it does in no way diminish what was an incredible year for pop music and for female-driven pop music in particular. Like, 2024 is one of the goats in terms of quality. And in a moment in which, man, it is really hard to create something new. This week, there was a clip that went around

of the AI music platform, Suno, the CEO basically saying, yeah, well, I just think people don't want to do the work. It's too hard to make anything new. And there was a lot of backlash to that because it's like, hey, fuck you. every craft, you got to do the work. Like, what do you mean?

Like, we're not making tools for lazy people to get to be Beyonce. Like, no, that's not what's going to happen. But, and I'm sure he didn't mean that, and everybody just loves to dunk online. But my, you know, look, it just, at a moment in which it's hard to create something new. And when a lot of the, quote, unquote, innovation is happening from, like, artificial intelligence being trained on old stuff that will therefore inevitably be derivative, it feels to me like this slate. of female nominees for album of the year, each in their own way created something that matters. And that's something

that should be celebrated. And so, as we think about the Grammys that are happening in two weeks, in a city that is bleeding out at the moment, I am looking forward to seeing how they handle a

celebration that should happen, rightly should happen, and a set of awards that should be given out, because we keep going. In a way, that doesn't overshadow or eclipse the hurt and pain that's happening in the city right now.

I mean, their proceeding is planned, but with most of the normal like hoopla and surrounding events, I think, are getting canceled, which like all of that makes all the sense in the world to me. Yeah.

You don't need to put a stream. The Clive Davis event will be a fundraiser charity event. I think most of the things will then turn their attention. attention to ways that they can help. But life moves on. And we had an incredible year in 2024. So to me, it feels... Yeah, and culture is the thing that people... I mean, remember the COVID Grammys were so wonderful. Like, culture is the thing that helps people move on,

helps people come together. And so I hope it ends up being, you know, maybe it'll be a particularly emotional show, but I think that they can do a great gramees. Well, the COVID-Gramies were great because Harry and Taylor talked on camera and she was wearing that floral thing. I mean, come on, that's why the COVID Grammys were great. Remember everybody's designer face masks? Yes. It's just such a, it's such a vignette. Any other Grammy's thoughts?

We're going to talk about it a lot. Yeah. Because as you said, like, it's just been such a big year and we can celebrate everyone who's nominated. Well, I mean, is it worth talking about the fact that Timothy Chalme is going to be the musical guest on Saturday Live? the same time that he hosts. What's the opposite of a Grammy? It's Timmy. Never say never.

Never say never. Timmy could EGOT. Timmy did a good job. I have to be honest. Timmy did a great job. I was really surprised. I was expecting to be really, really annoyed and frustrated.

And Timmy just keeps racking up the wins. Timmy was great on college game day. Timmy was great in this Dylan movie singing. Timmy's showing up to, movie premieres on a motorcycle, he's shown up, like, doing, he's doing the work. This is what I mean by doing the work. On a bicycle. Yeah.

A lime bicycle. Yeah. He's doing the work to sell the art. And like, sometimes it's ridiculous, but like, it's working. It's working. I want to see it. I would like to go on record saying that I do not think the problem with Beyonce's crammy campaign for Cowboy Carter is that she didn't take enough pages from the Timothy

Shalomey promotional handbook. If she showed up on a bike, she might have gotten a few more votes. I'll tell you this. Tiny horse. She showed up on a horse. Well, she didn't show up on a tiny horse, and that's what Timothy Shalmay is going to do

for a third time when he hosts this thing. We're going to get, I mean, I assume he's going to play Dylan songs, but what if he plays Tiny Horse live? It would be really spectacular. I love how much you wanted to talk about that. I just had to get it out, man. That thing's been...

Timmy! Timmy! It's a Salomey world. We're all living in it. All right. Here's the story that I felt like I had to talk about today. Okay. And it was one...

Every so often we have something, like, I have something on my little mental rundown, and I'm like, what's Nathan going to say about this? And I previewed this to you before we started recording, and you were kind of all over it. Which is that there is... a story that is simultaneously charming and kind of hysterical and like a little bit poignant but also a little bit ridiculous, which is that the 15 year anniversary edition of Heidi Montag's album Superficial is currently number one on the iTunes charts.

And this is the result of a social media campaign. by Heidi and by Spencer Pratt, in part because they lost their house in the fires the day after she announced that this re-release anniversary edition of the album, which I believe sold a thousand copies in its first week of release in 2010. 500 of them to Spencer and Heidi, yes.

But it has gotten a lot of, A lot of TikTok buzz, a lot of... A lot. Truly a lot, a lot. The girl who did the Apple dance was posting about it and made a dance tutorial, a lot of other people from the hills, celebrities, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they went and did it.

And she's got a number one song and a number one album. I mean, a lot of videos of them digging through the crystals in the fire and the plate. Like, there's nothing funny about that right now. And an all-clad pot, which had kind of made it. Yeah, there's nothing funny about that right now. They are funny. Yes, totally. It's spidey.

Just as I will mourn the streets where Sean Mendez once ran shirtless being burned, there is a part of me that mourns the figure. I used to see Spencer Pratt in the Palisades all the time. He is generally standing around looking for things to do. And I'm just happy that. now they've got something to do. And I would absolutely hate watch is too strong a term because I wouldn't hate watch it. But I would absolutely enjoy watching a series of them like going through this process and rebuilding their lives and their house. I mean, I would not be shocked if you get the

opportunity to do that. Spencer and Heidi, ridiculous since day one. But I got to say, They're still together. They're still together. They're still together. They're still together. I mean, particularly, you know, the Hill's not exactly ideal breeding ground for that. And he was, you know, Spencer Hustles. Spencer Hustles.

He was like posting all over the place with this. And there is something, I mean, I don't know. It's, it's, I used to in high school, the famous Spencer. line of you're making yourself cry was like, I don't even know why it was such a big deal to us, but like my friends in high school and I used to sit around in our dorm rooms and just be like, you're making me cry, you're making yourself cry to each other all the time. And I think there's something about those people who have like, don't worry about it. I'm not going to try to understand this.

Kaya knows. Where, I don't know, there was something sort of. like nostalgic and a little bit sad and also a little bit ridiculous about watching the whole thing go down. But I'm very happy for Heidi and for the album superficial, which I got to be honest, like I was, I felt like this is something that I would have been all over. And I, like, I did not remember this. Yeah, no, I did not know that she had, anyway. Look, I mean, I think I am a connoisseur and a student of like, for instance, the Leighton Meester foray into pop music. Shit.

Could girls go bad, an iconic bop? But this, this I will say, escaped me. But like, you know, that means I get to, that means I get to learn something new. My God. Well, I wish them the best. I do too. I just don't think we're going to be talking about them as a nominee for an album of the year and this year. Okay.

However. She could be best new artists, though, technically. Could you imagine? I mean, I don't think. You can only imagine. She doesn't have enough album. I think she did a second album at some point, but I read on Wikipedia this afternoon.

I can see both of those albums having been submitted and just like nobody knowing about it. And then it would be like Heidi's not eligible. She's submitted too many times. Here's what I can say to you. as I was confirming that the song was still number one as well as the album, I noticed a little song called I Never Lie by one Zach Top is number 24. Let's go.

I was like, I have to tell Nathan. I have to tell Nathan about this incredible Zach Top news. You think I don't know this. I'm sure you do. I know you do. It's climbing 24 with a bullet, baby. Zachtop is here. He's performing in Terminal 5 in May.

And I was like, should I get tickets to the Zach Top show? Should I go? You should. It's pretty fun. I'm thinking, I'll look at my calendar. I'm thinking about it. New Mumford single coming shortly. Breaking news.

Ooh. It's very exciting. Love a little late breaking news from Nathan. I feel like we're not really back until you've sort of like dropped in a little piece of info. Shall we end the pod? Yeah. I mean, I think there's one thing that I just want to say because we talked about the fire stuff in the beginning. I don't want to be weird for people.

But, I mean, I said this to you as we got started. My son went back to school today. And, you know, he didn't want to go because it is kind of him like going back to the reality. Like we kind of fled town for a bit. And then like his school was the one that didn't burn down. And so he's outside the palisades. And so he went back. And this morning I was trying to sort of contextualize for him like why it's so important that he goes back. And you know, I said to him, look, we had a good long cry about everything that he owns burning down and the house where he has Christmas and all the best memories that he and my daughters have had are gone.

And that's hard to get your head around. But I said there's actually going to be two moments that are going to be even harder. And the first is when you go back and actually see it. We can't get in there right now. National Guard has it locked down. When you go actually see it, it's going to be awful. It's going to be worse than the pictures. It's going to be worse than everything.

And your heart is going to break. But the second thing is going to be even harder. And that's going to be that the news cycle moves on. In 30 days, people are going to get on back to their lives and they'll be Trump inaugrated and they'll be the Super Bowl. And they'll be whatever else the chaos and drama of the day is to draw people's attention. And people are going to move on and forget. And you're still going to be standing there. and you're going to have a choice, and that's going to be to stay as a victim, or it's going to be to

mourn and to be sad about what happened, but to get back up and to dust yourself off and keep going. And so I said to my son, you going back to school is an inspiration to me and to the rest of the family and to all of us and a reminder that we're going to keep going. And that is something that will hold pretty close in our hearts over the next couple of weeks, but what I want to say to people listening is that it's super weird if you know somebody affected by this. I get it. You don't really know what to say. And I want to just sort of reassure you that you don't actually need to say to worry about your words.

You just need to say something. And just reaching out to people and letting them know that you're there and that you care, having never been through sort of a federal disaster like this before, I can just tell you it has meant so much to hear from Miranda. on Instagram as much as like childhood friends that I didn't even know existed. So if you have that person out there who you know has been affected by this, just reach out. Don't worry about what you're going to say. Just let them know you're there because people are going to move on and we need to move on. And like my son has to go back to school because he has to be ready for the world that's

going to continue on and not be a victim in that world, but be leaning in and use his big brain and his sunny personality and everything else that's wonderful about him to go. make the world a better place in his own way. But the people that you know in your life who are going through this will keep their sanity by just having that human connection and knowing that you're there. And so I encourage everybody who's got that friend or even that distant acquaintance to just ping them and let them know you care because it's the human piece that gets lost in a moment like that when you start walking around wondering what you're going to pull out of your house as the fire comes down the hill, hearing from those human beings is really what gets you through it.

I think that's very well said. And I'm sure we have a lot of listeners who have been affected. And I think we can do both, right? We can tell everybody that we're thinking of all of you. This is a community. We're super here. And we can also... You know, we're going to do some pods.

We're going to talk about the Grammys. And I hope those things will exist if someone's having a crappy day and it helps for 45 minutes to listen to two bozos yap about Beyonce and Taylor Swift and Charlie XX and Zach Top when the need arises. But also know that like, you know, and I say this to you and Kaya, everybody loves you. We love you. We're here for you. just really been thinking about you guys a lot lately. And it's really nice to get to see your faces today and do the aforementioned yapping. Love you too. That's why we're podding today. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Princiotti. He's Nathan Hubbard.

Thank you to the excellent and extra fabulous and wonderful Kaya McMullen for producing this episode. And to you for listening. We'll talk to you soon.