Every Single Album - Wrapping Up Our Adele Journey With Juliet Litman. Plus, A Song Auction! | Every Single Album: Adele

Episode Date: December 20, 2021

Nora and Nathan are joined by Juliet Litman, an Adele superfan, to talk about Juliet's love for '19' (1:00) and revisit '30' now that it has been out for a month (25:31). Then, Nora and Nathan use an auction to build their perfect six-track Adele EP (43:10). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Guest: Juliet Litman Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Emmy Award-winning producer, actor, and comedian, Larry Wilmore is back on the air, hosting a podcast where he weighs in on the issues of the week and interviews guests in the world of politics, entertainment, culture, sports, and beyond. Check out Larry Wilmore, Black on the Air on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to every single album, Adele, for the last time. I'm Nora Pinsiatty. I am a staff writer at the ringer. I'm here, as always, with Nathan Hubbard. and our very extra special guest for today, Juliette Littman. Hello, Julia. How are you? I'm great. Thanks for having me.

Thank you for being with us. And Juliet is here as our expert resource into Adele because Juliet- I'm massively intimidated. Correct me if this is wrong. You are to Adele as Nathan and I are to Taylor Allison Swift. I think so. I feel like I know less about Adele than, you guys do by Taylor Swift, but I think that's on Adele.

I don't think that's on me. Yes, I agree. She puts out less for me to know. She's not leaving scarves. No. Here, there and everywhere. No, she's not. She also, like, only posts on social media, like, once in a blue moon.

And it's definitely a different vibe. But yeah, I love Adele deeply. I mean, I've just got a lot of thoughts that I've been working through on jam session, which you can also check out. We've basically been on the Adele beat for like two months. And, yeah, I mean, more than anything, I love, just love, love the tunes. I love a vocalist.

I'm obsessed with vocals in general. I was really into season one of the voice as a result. And as someone who loves both pop music and that beautiful vocals, I just love it out. You've come to the right place. Good. Thrilled to be here. So were you and Adele fan from the beginning? What was your entry point?

In 2006 or seven, I don't know if you guys don't remember this, but Starbucks used to give out one free song. per week. Oh, I'm familiar. And one of the Starbucks free songs in 2006, 2007 was hometown glory by Adele. I like it in the city when the air is so thick and opaque. And my college roommate, who remains one of my best friends, Claudia and I used to download all the free songs. And we loved hometown glory.

And then Chasing Paisments came along. and we were just like super into Adele from a very early stage. We like to say we discovered Adele, which is not true, but we are among her first fans in America. That's for sure. I think that counts. I think you should be able to claim that. Thank you.

If that's the case, what I need from you immediately is a defense of 19. Can you do that? I love 19. I know. I listen to you all the time. I need the defense of 19. Talk to me. Wait, wait, wait.

Hold on. Hold on. Juliet, do you often find yourself? in like a steakhouse lounge enjoying the vibe in the audience. Do you go to Mastros and love the band there? I've never been to Mastros, but I'm sure I would like it. I do like a steakhouse vibe. Went to a steakhouse last night, in fact.

Was there a band? No, there wasn't, but there was really good food. I mean, what do I need to defend? There's so many good songs. I mean, there's a little bit too much percussion on 19, I would say. but like best for last I'd dare you think you'd get away with trying to play me

I absolutely love daydreamer love daydreamer with eyes and make you melt you still go back to those yeah I listen to best for last all the time and I find I find 19 to be a really good background like waking up

doing some errands chores record I love it I don't like melt my heart to Stone that much. And I hear your words. No. I don't know. Also, I love that one. When I'm really, really stressed out, I listen to make you feel my love on a loop,

her version, obviously. Absolutely. Yeah. That's the defense. I think that in chasing pavements, I get. It just as an album felt like a series of demo tapes. Yeah. It's destroyed.

Okay. But also to each their own. And I think Juliet is telling us that she has more of a taste for some of the vibes that we found a little loungy, but other people see a lot of beauty in. And I love that. At the time, she was kind of loungy. Like, her first tour in the U.S. was like,

small clubs, cafes, lounges, and she just, you know, sat there on her stool. And I don't know. I just, I always loved her voice, just, like, really loved it. I love a brilliant vocalist. My top song of the year, Tierton, 2021, was through the,

reign by Mariah Carey from 2002, which is like the fourth single off of a bracelet. Oh, wow. He's just been hammering the Mariah. I just love, I love a diva. I love a great female vocalist. Did you feel that she was that diva on 19? Were you an Amy Winehouse fan? Did you find her that way?

Like, was there lineage for you there? Or did you see her as something different? Because one of the journeys that we've been on through this process is seeing how she had a lot of those influences and I think probably unfairly was pegged that way. Once the label actually let her be Adele, she blossomed into something much, much bigger. But I'm just curious how you, the lineages that you were into that brought you to her. I love, well, seriously, Starbucks brought me to her. But I love Amy Winehouse.

I think I went to her last U.S. performance, a La Paloosa in 2007. Oh, wow. And I assumed that love is a game is like somewhat 30 is inspired by Amy Winehouse. It has such an Amy Winehouse feeling and she is a song, similar title. And she'll have definitely a lot of Amy Winehouse on 30. I think Adele said she loves Amy Winehouse anyway. Yeah. Frank more so than.

I love Frank too. I think originally the specter of Amy loomed so large that it was almost taboo for her to say it. was sort of like, no, no, we're not all the same. And then as time has passed, she's been a little bit more like, yeah, of course. Like, I was massively inspired by her. I remember when chasing pavements came out. I was like, why wasn't this the first single here in America? It's like clearly better than hometown glory. But I just, I always loved her music. I don't know. I never was like this. I just always like connected with it. I find like her sort of like love sickness and reverence for a period that she never actually experienced. Both both of those really resists. with me. And, um, I like how you feel about the Beatles right now. Yeah, exactly. I'm mourning the, the Beatles breakup. But just in, in general, I really related to like the sense of kind of like, she's almost

like out of time and out of place. And, uh, the universality of what she sings about, like always really connected for me. And yeah, I, ever since hometown glory, I've always been a fan. And then, you know, make you feel my love has been my on repeat song for like, you know, 10 plus years now. I could hold you for a million years to make you feel my life. I think 19 is a great, like, just relaxing vibe. I can understand if it's not for you, but I really enjoy it.

So the universality being something that appeals to you is really interesting to me, because what we ultimately want to do is we're going to get back to 30 and sort of revisit it in the context of having gone from the beginning. But I'm curious what you feel like Adele gives her fans, like what is the central sort of thesis statement of what it means to be an Adele fan. Because one thing that I sort of discovered going through her discography

and also just sort of her track record of being a star and being in public or not being in public is she seems to really make it a point to kind of be accessible to everyone or to try to be. And sometimes that works for me. And then sometimes it gets sort of muddy and very generalized to me. I mean,

obviously, it exists in very sharp contrast to like Taylor Swift dropping incredibly specific details about individualized experiences in her life. Adela is much more opaque, but also in some way is much more universal because it's so broad. What is the experience of being a fan of someone who exists in that way where you're not necessarily being let in to the hyper-specific. Sure.

Well, I just say I'm not a huge fan of 25 and didn't enjoy the press around 25 and the tour on 25, though I went to it. I think 25 is boring. Wow. Whoa!

We're like that noise on TikTok where it's like, wow, wow, wow. What is happening? I listened to it the least of all of her records. Do you listen to it at all? I listen to it a little. I don't love it. I like All I ask a lot, but that's because it's written by Bruno Mars.

Take me, bud. You love the key change. I love Bruno Mars's music. I think he's a wonderful songwriter. It's like, do not get this twisted. I love the music of Bruno Mars. Yeah, I do. I would like for him to sing that song.

I wish that Bruno Mars went back towards like the ballads of his early days. Anyway, I digress. So I think Adele with 21, you know, in writing like one of the best breakup albums of all time, gave the world music to listen to when you're in pain and music to obviate the need to identify how you're feeling. It's just like, how are you feeling? Listen to this Adele song. And I think that's like a gift to people who struggle with their emotions and people who are just

struggling. Like I think being able to find the company. that your misery needs from Adele on 21 is like so beautiful. And like I just, you know, I can think of all the times I like felt heartbroken. I was like, well, I need to listen to this album right now. There's also a really amazing. I mean, I think like that album start to finish is a, is a fully realized album. And the progression of songs and the is just like really wonderful. And it sort of takes you on a ride, which I really enjoy. I mentioned that specifically. because I think 21 is about these universal feelings of heartbreak.

Heartbreak, yeah. You know, and she pretty amazingly has kept the identity of the heartbreaker pretty offline. There's not a lot known about who Adele's singing about, right? And you can dig. There's some stuff out there, whatever. But in general. But it's not like nothing confirmed, nothing clear, nothing. Correct.

And also because she put so much distance between like when the songwriting begins, when the albums come out, typically, it's sort of like, it's in the rear window for her. And so I think that like universality really is amazing. With 30, it's opposite, right? Like, she very clearly talks about how this is about her divorce and this is sort of like, you know, she's very, I would say kind to her ex-husband, to her son's father, as she refers to him mostly in interviews these days. And I think that's, like, really fascinating attempt to control a narrative in a different way. And I think that 30, really and the way that she's positioned 30 reflects a lot of regret and learning from the 21

experience. I think 25 is boring because she was like not in touch with like her sadness for that that moment to be honest. But I think that so so I think with to back to your question, Nora, to like really be an adult fan where she's very particular about what she lets you in on and the narrative she wants to have and that she's become way, way more control of that in, you know, the last few months than I think she was previously. It really foregrounds the music. And that is something that I have felt pretty strongly over the last couple of weeks, especially in comparison to like the art project that is Red Taylor's version is it has to really, the conversation has to be focused on the songwriting choices and the influences and the live performances.

And it makes me relieved that we don't have to like be kind of parsing through, you know, I think like questions of power and gender politics that I think a lot, what Taylor stuff really wants to like tangle with to, you know, varying effectiveness. So it's interesting that it's like more about, so it's, she's foregrounding the music, but it also sounds like it's a little bit more, it's like a gift to the fan to wallow in or just to sort of like let, let wash over them. Whereas I think even, even the Taylor stuff that's for the heartbroken, it's about like, let me take some of this off of you by showing you that I have been through this. And all of a sudden you're like caught up in Taylor's nonsense and you forget about your own.

That's at least what it's been to me. But it's a completely different like I'm not, you know, you sort of you experience the feelings to it. But it's much more about sort of lightening the load through commiserating. Yeah, absolutely. It's less like. like I'm going to sit in this and wallow in it like a warm blanket and just feel things. I also have to say Adele doesn't want to talk about this. And so I, and she doesn't want to be the narrative. So I don't really want to be the narrative.

But I actually think Adele's defiance about like about her weight loss and just about her personal appearance and her deliberateness is also like just really fascinating to me. And like on jam session and in here I like, I like, I don't really like want to. I like, I like, I hesitate to bring. it up. But I think that like because Adele has been unconventional like from the beginning in terms of, you know, she was heavier. She was like a lounge singer in the pop space. And then, you know, I would say 21 and 25. She's like has like this incredible makeup that is like almost like

the sort of the way that she did her makeup was like so impressive. And yeah, she was so insistent on like the gowns all the time and just really like, you know, kind of looking like a Vegas singer all the time. Like she is like always ready for her Vegas residency, which is now happening. And now, you know, because I think she wants to be clear that she didn't like lose weight to lose weight, but as like a mental health, you know, this is like actually a byproduct of what she did for her mental health. I actually think that's really interesting and transgressive in a way that's hard to talk about and parse because she has so clearly not wanted her appearance and like her physical self to be the focus of her music. But at the same time,

she's always had such a striking appearance. I'm not completely with 19, but that's what happens when you get famous and you get more money, right? You get more opportunities to shape how you look. But I also, I personally find that really interesting, indifferent. Well, I think that's a piece of it too, right? It's, I think one thing that I imagine would be difficult for her as someone who has gone so out of her way. I mean, even to the point of tweaking her, not her entire accent,

but the way that she says words so that they come across more universally, probably some of the ways in which she, you know, prioritizes whatever version of health feels right for her, both mentally and physically, they're not going to be relatable, right? Like, they're not universal. She has a private chef, probably, and a trainer.

And I just would imagine that the element of privilege and money that goes into that and makes it, look, it's easier to lose weight if you have those resources. Totally. That's sort of an ugly truth, but it is a truth. I bet that is also kind of thorny for someone who... Totally. Fills that role for people.

I'll tell you what I can't relate to is deadlifting 170 pounds, which is what she told to Oprah in that special. Holy shit. I think she said it in vogue too. Yeah. Did that special bother you in particular? Did the celebrity guest list? I mean, we could probably do an entire pod on that.

Nora refuses to really go down that path with me fully. But did it bother you? Like, there is this every woman accessibility to Adele. And the way that you speak about the songs has me reflecting on whether I'm just missing that she's being very intentional about the universal accessibility of the lyrical component of her songs in particular. But this is a very, like, it's more flaunting of celebrity friendship than we've seen. It didn't feel like in your face, and I thought she was, you know, wonderfully, I just, I love the Oprah interview because of the few moments in which she actually reflected on the way that her creative process happens.

But I was a little jarred to see just a bunch of famous people in the audience. Did that bother you at all? Pick time, man. There's nothing more disappointing than your favorite relatable celebrity moving to Beverly Hills, buying three houses at the end of the cul-de-sac and dating an agent. I mean, that's like- Getting a terrible tattoo. Yeah, I mean, tattoos are not for me no matter what. But yeah, I find it really disappointing. I really love her music. And it's also like not for me to decide how she lives out her largest. But yeah, man, I mean, moving to Beverly Hills and dating an agent is like just not the outcome I was looking for here. Super agent, Rich Paul.

Yeah, exactly. What is the alternative, though? I know. I talked about this a lot. Who should she date? I don't know. I don't know who she could date. But also, like, how should she live?

Right? Like, I would say not. Maybe one house at the end of a cul-de-sat. Part of this is that I don't understand L.A. culture in the same way and the various different choices that could have been made to that end. Like, maybe there's a more low-key way to do that. But, like, she's a Dell. She's not going to have a non-glamorous lifestyle. Sure.

Sure. I think what I find disappointing about it is there's a real lack of imagination. and what it looks like to be rich and famous. And I think that kind of gets back to like the guest list of it. Actually, have you guys seen the Italian job, the Mark Wahlberg version? No. One of my favorite movies. Well, Edward Norton's in the villain in that movie.

And like he steals everyone's money. And instead of like coming up with his own wants and desires, he goes after what everyone else said they wanted with the gold. And that sort of like reminds me of this, although Adel is not a villain. I love her. But it's sort of like, it's sort of like if you had never been to L.A. or like only watched 9-0-2-1-0, and that's all you knew about being rich in Los Angeles.

And you were like, okay, I'm going to do that. So I find that strange, but at the same time, I don't know that, I can't say if I'd make different decisions. But my feeling about the Oprah special was that, Seth Rogen was super baked. Well, he said, yeah, he said that on Fallon, that he never met her.

I had thought she'd, like, they just invited rich people or famous people, which he then confirmed. And my thought on the specials, in general was that it was like a very controlled event. And like this is sort of like just Adele doing it on her terms, which is like super glam and that she loves being famous. And or no, actually I don't think that. I don't think she loves being famous. I think she loves being rich, which many people do. Yeah. I sort of, I feel similarly, which I don't, I think it's

hard to sort of begrudge her for. Right. Of course. Yeah. Again, many people do. The distinction between inviting just a bunch of famous people versus inviting a bunch of famous people who she knows, I do think, like, I have joked to Nathan that I wish there had been a Beckham there. It's hard to believe there wasn't. Probably couldn't make it.

Agreed. That's what I said. She was up on the wall in those images. Well, but right. If you'd been, that's in some ways, like I'm mostly kidding, but that's in some ways the point of it is if it had been,

even if they were all celebrities, If for some reason there were more people where you were like, oh, clearly you know her or you have some connection with her versus just like, here's the famous people. We can achieve this sort of aesthetic thing that's going to be a spectacle because there's going to be a bunch of famous people on camera. Then maybe that would have been like somehow slightly more. Yeah. I will say I have enjoyed her choice, her post-release press choices more than I did in the run up to it. And I think like, I don't know if you guys saw it, but she went. on Nikki tutorials and did like this makeup thing.

Yeah. Half and half. If you have a song title, I drink wine. I bring the wine. I'll give you a big glass if you. Thank you. Yes. We'll have to do your eye life.

Well, this is exactly what it would like if I did my makeup then, if you get pissed. Cheers, babes. I'm 30. Cheers. I thought that was like, you know, her version of doing hot ones, but like a little bit more interesting and more international. Better host. Better host.

and she was really chatty. And I think Adele seems like a really good hang. So the choices she's made that put that on display, I think are smart. I think it's really interesting. I was, Nathan, I was glad that you pointed out early on in the series that you did not think any of these songs were about Rich Paul because I agree with you. I think they're all written pre-Ritch Paul. And I'm relieved about that.

I can't imagine like what a Rich Paul breakup album would be like. Is it like reference to Lakers to Anthony Davis? Like, I don't know. The code on the floor at the. with crypto.com center? The crypt? I thought she looked incredible when she went to Lakers opening night

with her leather outfit and her Louis Vuitton jacket. I loved it. But I like the appearances where she talks about what she does at home and where she feels, she's clearly comfortable. And I think when she's like playing celebrity,

it's like less fun. That's like also why when she did carpool karaoke with James Gordon, it was so great. She just like got to sing. Nikki Minaj. Like Adele is a fan of stuff.

She's a fan of makeup. She's a fan of dying her eyebrows. Adele, she's just like us. And so when she gets to be that person without the weight of having to play world famous Adele, which she has said she doesn't like. She's like way more fun. And so I think basically like I like off the clock Adele. And I always love her music. Are you listening to 30?

I am. Did it move you deeply? You know, it didn't at first. At first I was like, oh, this is good. This is better than I was expecting. Wait, why? because because the run-up press made you like, meh, you just didn't like the choices?

What set your bar low? I, two things. One, I didn't like 25. One, I didn't like 25. Yeah. And two, I think that she talks about someone like you and the success of 21 in a really strange, almost resentful way. And I, this is just all based on like, you know, me studying her interviews and whatnot.

But I almost feel like she thinks someone like, he was overrated and, like, wishes it was less popular and didn't have to sing it all the time. And, like, if I had to sing a song about an axe who broke my heart, who I didn't want to think about, I'm sure I would feel similarly. And, like, I actually, like, really wondered to this about, like, you know, big stars. Like, how many times of the Backstreet Boys performed, I want it that way? And, like, do they hate it? James Taylor has talked about fire and rain that he, it's everything that he can do to just

get off the couch and play that song. Yeah. Certainly not everything that a celebrity says in public is certifiably true to how they actually feel. She has spoken about feeling a responsibility at the very least to play the hits. Yes. And she said, like, if I spent my hard-earned money to go see someone and they didn't play what I was expecting them to play, I would be really disappointed.

And I think it's, I'm paraphrasing. But, you know, see some arrogance in not doing that. You don't sign up for a Vegas residency if you're not willing to play the hits. But I think that she seems like dismissive of the success of twice. 21 and maybe because 21 means so much to me, I feel sad about that. But as a result, I was worried that 30 wouldn't have like the emotional heft that 21 does because I was like wondering if she felt burned by exposing herself that way. So I was worried about it, but I am just so bold over and moved by it to be loved. I can't think, I can't think of a more perfect Adele song.

And it's like, it is so incredible. And I think the final three songs on the record are just like a great run. From hold on to To Be Love to Love as a game. Like, it's just perfect. How do I feel so mighty small And I'm struggling to feel it up And so I love that. The only analogy that I can think of for To Be Love

that has struck me since the first couple times that I heard it And after we record that episode, The only thing that's close to it for me is Whitney Houston's, I will always love you. Yeah. And yeah, I agree. It is so unbelievable. Also, it's, like, so surprising that, you know, the cadence and the way that she, like, the, the poetry of it is so unexpected.

And the diction is just, like, different than a lot of her other songs. Yeah. And, you know, I think the, like, the concept of, you know, I lied for you to be loved is just, like, so it's overwhelming. it's such an overwhelmingly beautiful and like heartbreaking song and so it's like the highest highs of adele like i think it's like instantly adele pantheon instantly like you know ballad pantheon how many times will this be performed in talent shows for the rest of time right and she's never going to play it right and that's okay honestly like i hate social media but like thank you instagram

for preserving adele singing without makeup on her couch so great it's amazing it's like it's such a gift the fact that she can also just like not even be sitting in proper position and like just like looking over her shoulder even just sitting down but is that why she is that why she i want to ask you on the 21 stuff because she's also spoken dismissively of 19 and i just wonder if she really believes that or if there's this you know when she was on the opera interview saying well i i'm not really that deep in real life so i'm not sure where my art comes from i feel like is that still grounded in like an insecurity we there's cordon jokes that she doesn't know that she's adele It feels like she knows she's Adele because she looks at her bank account

and maybe now she has some celebrity friends, but I'm not sure she's ever fully walked into the talent that was on display in that Instagram post. You know, I have heard, I don't remember where, but I remember hearing that in the studio she's like very, very firm and really like clear about what she wants. The stories all say that for sure. Yeah.

And she has a real track record of deciding what songs are going to make it and which ones are not. But that's different than being clear. That you're great. Right. I think she knows it. I do. I think that part of,

I don't know where my art comes from is like almost like taking pressure off herself to explain it. I think she doesn't want to explain herself and that's why she doesn't like being celebrity. I think she has a hard time squaring her immense success with some of her childhood and sort of wanting to have those things be of a piece when they just very aren't very much or not. Yeah. You know, when she was like, I can't afford London, like, of course she can afford London. But like, does she think that she can be posh? I don't know. Like, I think there's a whole, I think there's a lot of class stuff. You know, it's very British, um, that plays into it. I think she knows how talented she is, though. Hmm. I agree with that. Just my feeling. I think a lot of it. I think it's much more about class sort of crisis than anything else. And so she's reflected on all that and thought through the fundamental. sort of roots of all those feelings. And she just doesn't want to talk publicly about it.

So she wants to control her image and control the words that come out in the same way that she's controlling in the studio. I think so. I mean, if you look at the 30 press store, we've learned very little. Nothing. She confirmed that she's dating Rich Paul. We already knew that. She said it's about her ex.

We knew she's divorced. She says a letter to her son. He's on the album. She dead lifts 170 pounds. Although, I do think the one distinction is that she shows evidence of her success and of what her life looks like a little bit more clearly. Yeah, totally. Than she used to. The voice memos are pretty intense.

I don't care for them. I don't care for them either, but they are, I mean, it's her son authentically asking questions about divorce on tape. Like, that's a lot to reveal. And her responses, by the way. you know, she could have potentially put herself at risk for being criticized as a parent for doing that. Sure. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's too invasive? He's going to hate it when he grows up, isn't it? Totally. I think that I think she seems like she's so hard on herself that she's so hard on herself that anything else anyone says she's probably thought of. but she does believe she's great. I do think that.

I also think she doesn't seem interested in, like, conveying to anyone, like, whether she's smart or not. Like, I actually, like, until with this conversation, I've never really thought to myself, do I think Adele is smart? It's sort of, like, it's sort of, like, irrelevant to the Adele conversation. She's such, like, a, she probably is. I don't know, but, like, her intuition for voice, for vocals is, like, so strong that it sort of, like, blocks any other.

kind of like assessment of her for me at least well she's very from the gut she's not she doesn't ever really present herself as like an analyst whenever she talks about decision making it's based on emotion or it's based on sort of impulse yeah that's what makes a lot of people love her i think and i think nor i think you put it really well a few moments ago and it's sort of like if you were a wallower like if you like to wallow in your feelings like adela's for you so and there's many people like that i'm a fucking wallower shouts to wallowers everywhere Yeah. So I have to admit that I'm not really a wallower.

Like, if I'm really sad, it's much, it feels much better for me to like take some of that off and give it to somebody else. You listen to 10 minute all too well many times. You are a bit of a wallower. Yes. And and remember the, remember the key example anecdote from my own life about all too well that we had to go over like six different times. Yes. My key all too well moment was when I decided that my heart. break was not significant enough to be ascribed to all too well. Man. I was going to have to just like be over it because I needed to save that song for something

greater and deeper and that the boy in question was not worthy of it. That's great. It's a great fuck you to him. You're not even worth all too well. I think also just for me on a person, totally personal level, I do really love like sharing my love for a deal with my friend. It's like a nice thing that we like have like have together. And I think that that's like a lot of like music and art.

Like if you share it with someone who's like important in your life and it like takes on significance, there's that as well. I'm sure you guys can relate with Taylor Swift. I feel like the Swifty community is really into that as well. And I think that like it also just like there's because her music does like a throwback and timeless, it's like kind of like a built and nostalgia to it. That is also like I think pretty powerful. Yep. All right, Juliet. Before we let you go, I need your top five Adel songs.

Okay. These are my favorites. And I think they're like mostly the best. But I think, I mean, this is like probably like an insane person's list. But here we go. Number five from 25. All I ask. Thank you, Bruno.

Co-written by Bruno Mars. Number four, best for last. Previously mentioned from 19. I love best for last. Love, love, love, love. Whoa. Love. And I'm all you need

And that you never want I will be revisiting it after this conversation It's fun It's jaunty It's different I don't know I just Jonti

That's what I love in my favorite songs It's jauntiness Number three Someone like you Top breakup song I mean it's like Gotta be top five all time I mean

What else is even in the conversation I'm sure you can throw out of you Norah shredded it a little bit on the pod I so did not. It's not my favorite, but I think it's amazing. The video of her walking along the sand and the black and black and white,

I mean, yeah, that seems like a great way to just be sad. I love it. It's that or in a windstorm for her in these videos. She loves a good windstorm. I don't like the Zavier Dolan videos. I actually don't like Hello that much. Like, it's good.

It shows off her vocary range, but I think it's kind of boring. I'm with you. It's fine. Number two, to be loved. I mean, it's just like so powerful. It's so, so, so good. And then my favorite song is from the Target Limited Release of 21. It is not available on Spotify. I don't know if it's on Apple music. It is on YouTube where I play it often. Actually, it is on Apple if you buy the album,

because that's how I have it. It is, I found a boy. But I found a boy who I love more than I ever did you. Bork Horse. It's like absolutely out of nowhere. It is by far my favorite adult song. Incredible. Tell us why. It's simple. It's like, it's simple in the way that to be loved is. It is an amazing vocal performance. I think it's a great, fuck you.

It's, I found a boy who I love more. I mean, it's like taking like the anger of someone like, it's like taking the heartbreak of someone like you and moving on to the next stage of grief. and it's like, fuck you, I'm good. I found someone else. And I think it's just like an astonishing vocal performance. And I just love a simple ballad. And that's that.

And I fucking love it. I can't recommend it highly enough. I think it is by far her best song. Okay. How do you feel about the song perfect by Ed Shearhan? I feel very complicated about Ed Shearin. I could talk to you about it for five hours. Like, okay, let's definitely do that sometime.

Yeah. I would say, Perfect is not one of my favorite Ed Shearin songs, but I recognize that it is like very pleasant. I just think it owes a very significant debt too. I found a boy. Yeah. Yes, definitely. Most Ed Shearin songs owe significant debt to under songs. I also for the record, I also have complicated feelings about Ed Shearin. Yeah. But look, here's what I need to understand based on your list that you just gave us. last I checked, the get-in price to go see Adele in Vegas

is going to be $1,500. That is the lowest price in the secondary market. If you want a decent seat, you're going to pay like 2x that. Oh, yeah, I think some were like going for as much. And even much. Yeah, like 30,000 or something like that.

Yeah. Well, those are just asshole scalpers trying to fish for suckers. Don't be a sucker. Don't bite that hook. But if you are going to bite that hook at some point, and go. It's possible that she's not going to play your favorite two songs. How do you feel about that? I feel okay with it. She may only play two of the five that you just listed. Would you still

want to go see her? I think she might only play one at five. I don't think she's playing, I don't think she's playing I found a boy, To Be Loved, Best for Last, or All I Ask. Maybe To Be Loved. I could see her play All I Ask. It's definitely a good one to do like in Vegas, I would say. Yeah, she has said she will not play To Be Love, that she won't be able to do it live. it's so beautiful. It doesn't matter. You want to go for the vibe. I'd want to go for the vibe,

but I have to say, like, Adele is so personal for me that, like, I'm okay with her not playing some of these songs because, like, I don't really, like,

need to share it with an audience of strangers. Like, I feel good about listening to it at home, in the car, in the shower, like,

whatever. And I, I think that's okay. I saw her do, like, one of her warm-up shows at the Wiltern. Me and Amanda Dobbins

went in, the winter of 2016. And it was like such an excellent Adele experience. She was like getting comfortable. It was like a pre-tore show. And you know, the Wiltern is like what, 5,000 people?

It's like a small venue. And we were on the ground, standing room only, or not stand room only, but like, you know, GA tickets. And it was so awesome.

You did not pay $1,500 for those. I paid $0. Thank you to some lovely friends. And, it was great. Like I loved it. It was amazing. But like the music is so much more important to me than the person in some ways.

And I think that she would be okay with that. That just like having the tunes and knowing she's doing her thing is like enough. Like I, I, uh, it's, and I will say it. And I say that as someone who saw the backstreet boys twice in Vegas and like was so excited to be standing next to Nick Carter that I fell over. And it's like that. It's incredible. Wow.

I was 100% over. Really? Yeah, I'll send you guys a video. I respect that so much. But like the music just means so much to me that it's like okay to not see it perform live. Like to have it for myself is great. This is how I feel about Hamilton and Disney Plus. Like the things that I really love, like I'm just so happy to like have in my disposal like whenever I want.

Like thank you to technology. So I don't know if I'm going to make it for Adele in Vegas. I don't have $1,500 for Adela in. Vegas. So I don't, you know, anyone's got tickets I accept. You feel defensive and protective of her voice. I mean, this is the fragility of that instrument, right? That's why she's doing Vegas to try to take it as easy as possible on her, I think. Well, she said that also it's because of COVID and whatnot, but I don't believe that. I think it's because she wants to take it easy and also hold out for stadiums where they're outdoors and you can make more money. But

Nathan, like, aren't all the stadiums like going to be booked up? Like, everyone's waiting to do their stadium tour. Yeah, there are a record number of holds on stadiums for next summer. It's going to be huge. But I don't think she belongs in a stadium. I don't think it works in a stadium. Yeah, a lounge singer shouldn't be in the stadium. Yeah.

A lounge singer. She should do 6,000 nights at Mastros. I would go. That sounds awesome. It really does sound awesome. I will say a Vegas theater is probably like where she should be, but I hate Vegas. And so I don't know if I'll be going. well a definitive knife in the entire tour of it the secondary market just came down by 50%

it was all a ruse this is juliet's plan if someone gives me tickets i will go but i don't know i just doesn't i don't see that happening they're hard to come by thanks for having me guys this has been a blast thanks for caring what i think are hard to come by juliet and you grace us with your presence you've also been providing everyone with illuminating thoughts about adele alongside Amanda Dobbins, fellow concert goer. Everybody can listen to all of that on the ringer dish feed. Lots of great jam session episodes dealing with our girl Adele. Julia, thanks you so much.

Guys to ask you one question. Sorry. I know this is an Adele podcast. But what do you think about Taylor Swift re-igniting her friendship with Alana Haim when Alana Haim is going to be probably nominated for an Oscar? You know what's going on. I mean, you know what's going on. Okay. We can talk about it later.

I don't care. I just have to, I just don't care. Like, the girl's a strategist. I like nobody, no crime, so it's fine. Yeah. I'm weirdly confused about why we just got through her birthday without a release of something, other than the fact that she's friends with Alana Haim now. I've also been scared to, to, like, admit this online.

I actually saw Lickrish Pizza right after I saw one Nathan Hubbard in New York this fall. I thought it was just okay. And I thought she was very good in it, but I thought it was like, eh, okay. I think movies need plots. I have been incredibly scared to voice this opinion. The first thing that I heard anyone say when I went downstairs to the restroom with the theater after seeing the movie was some woman say, so it was good, but just having read the press about it, I was expecting like the greatest thing I'd ever seen. I really felt that.

And this is the safe space where I feel okay voicing that opinion. Thanks for sharing. I haven't seen it. I don't know if I can take it. So I'll get back to you, TBD. Thank you, Juliet. Thanks so much. Have a great auction.

All right. Thank you to Juliet. That was wonderful. Hot takes. Yeah. She really, I think we got to take Juliet to Mastro's. Yeah. That's probably my job.

We're going to take producer Kyah and Juliet to Mastros and get some more hot adultics. Well, you are. I'm not invited to Mastres. Come on. Come on to L.A. You told her you don't get the whole L.A. thing. So if you'll come. It's not that I don't, it's not that I don't think that I could have an appreciation and understanding for it.

I just, I've never, I've never lived there. I don't understand it. It's very foreign to me. Maybe Mastros is the way for me to get to know. I think it'll be our third hang, in person hang. Okay. Cool. We're going to know Mastros.

All right. Before we wrap this up for good, we are going to go through a little exercise where we build a six-track, Adele LP, not quite greatest hits because we're working within a budget here. We had to switch up the format a little bit because the Taylor Swift song draft got a little contentious. And I just didn't want to put anything between us. and our friendship. Thank you. I was a little concerned. I actually think the way that people do this, they could make it like a competition. But this is going to feel much better to me that we don't have to go head to head,

mainly because I really don't want to get shit on the internet for losing. Yeah, for a second time. That would be tough. What? Who said, hello? Sorry. Kai, is this thing on? All right.

So I'm going to do my best to explain in podcast format. how this works, but we're also going to put, we've got a lovely graphic from the Ringer social team, and we will put that up so that people can build their own little mini albums alongside of us. But the budget, the overall budget, you have to get to six songs, it's $33. There are $10 songs, $6 songs, $3 songs, and $1 songs. The $10 songs are chasing pavements, make you feel my love, rolling in the deep, set fire to the rain,

someone like you, hello, send my love to your new lover when we were young, easy on me, and to be loved. The $6 songs are melt my heart to stone, hometown glory, rumor has it, turning tables, remedy, water under the bridge,

River Lee, all I ask, my little love, oh my God, can I get it, I drink wine, and hold on. there's some controversy in there already. Yes. So here's the thing is that people can argue about the respective value. That's going to be an argument. There have to be ways to, we didn't want to make it in a way where you just feel crappy about all of the lower priced song options. Like inevitably, there's some subjectivity in here and people can feel like they got the most value.

Yeah, it's a forcing function to make people leave off things that they really want to put on, which is what I love about it. Okay, we need to keep going on the $3 and $1 songs. Okay. Daydreamer, cold shoulder. Crazy for you. Don't you remember. He won't go. Take it all.

I'll be waiting. One and only. I miss you. Love in the dark. Sweetest devotion. Cry your heart out. All night parking. Woman like me.

And love is a game. Those are $3. Yes. And then the $1. And then the $1 songs are best for last. First Love, Right as Rain. My Same. Tired.

Love song. years ago and strangers by nature. This is so maddening, and it has been for me, because you really, to play this game, you either have to take three home runs and three not so home runs, or you have to mix it up and cut off one of us. It's really hard to pick just two

of the big Adele songs to represent her. but that's sort of the fun part of this exercise for me. Juliet could just take all the 19 songs most of which are the $1 category and just pocket like $28. She could totally dominate it. She loves best for last. And yeah, she would be perfectly happy to present this. You and I, on the other hand, have a number of Adele songs that we were fully comfortable putting on the latest Elon Musk, SpaceX, Rocket, and just shooting as far as we can into space. never to return.

But there are equally there are equally songs that I insist that gravity hold them as close to to Earth as possible.

So let's get into it. Now, to be clear, we're building, we have a budget, though. We can only spend $33, right? Because that's

Adel's current age. So we only get $33. It's like a salary cap. Yeah. We only get $33 to build a $6, song LP here. Now, between you and me, we're not going to draft, right? So in other words,

if you pick, I don't know, let's just say you pick rolling in the deep, I could still pick that, right? Correct. It's not like it's gone off the board. But people at home who don't want to, or aren't afraid of getting something in the way of their friendship, could potentially do like it's a fantasy football draft. And once rolling in the deep is drafted, it's gone. And you only, you know, then I would go next and I would pick whatever other song and you wouldn't be able to pick that. Not unlike the song draft. Yeah, totally. People can do what they want with it. But there is already that one, one sort of limiting factor of the budget. And it is revealing in its own right. All right. Nathan, would you like to go first? No, I really, I'll defer to you since I won last time. Go ahead.

Oh, is that so? Okay. All right. Well, my strategy, first of all, is I decided that I wanted a deeper roster rather than top-heavy light bottom. Oh. So I took two $10 songs. You're the Patriots. God damn it, you're the Patriots of Adele song draft. It's nice to meet you. I chose rolling in the deep and when we were young. Mm-hmm. Those are my two $10 selections.

Then, in the $6 category, a personal favorite, can I get it? Because I long to live under your spell. Okay. That's your homage to Max. Yeah, and I just love that song. Okay. I just totally love that song. All right.

And do you think it's like highly representative? It's just the song just does it for you. It's just a groove. Okay. It's just fun. Yep. Fine. So then to round it out, so that's three songs, that's three out of six.

So then I am at $26 there. So I needed to round it out with two $3 songs and a $1 song. Oh, boy. I tried, the thing that pushed me to only have two $10 selections is, to your point, in the ones there are very few sort of deep cut things that I think, oh no, secretly that's a gem. Nobody likes that song, but it's a gem. I really didn't want a lot of songs in the $1 category, but I had to have one to make math work. In the $3 category, though, I took another personal favorite.

I'll be waiting. And then Love is a game, which was a little bit by default just to make the numbers work, but is a song that I would be happy to have on my album. And then my $1 selection was right as rain. So I wound up with rolling in the deep when we were young. Can I get it? I'll be waiting. Love is a game.

And right as rain. I don't mind it. Thank you. I don't mind it at all. I love is a game. Interesting. Well. I really like that song.

Yeah. It doesn't like mean very much to me, but I like listening to it. And I needed something that was going to fit. So here we go. Did you consider a different strategy? I briefly considered loading up at the top just because the highs with Adel are very high. But it just means that there are songs on here that I really don't like. And there are no songs on my album that I really don't like.

And I think that's, that was the direction I wanted to go in. Okay, fair enough. The problem that I have with this, first of all, is that I forgot we were drafting six songs and I thought maybe we were going to draft five. Because if you only draft five, then your strategy would be like, all right, give me two tens, give me two sixes. Now I'm at 32 bucks and I have a dollar song left. But no, you can't do that. It really prevents you. Well, you could. But then you have won fewer songs. And I think that's sort of like an automatic DQ when we're comparing. But if you really felt strongly that either, first of all, you don't have to spend the whole $33. I don't know why you wouldn't, but you're not required to. But I think, yeah, you have to build six because really what I would have done in that case is I would have taken two home runs. But I think because I can't really take two of the $6 songs,

I feel very, I'm either hot or cold. on an Adele song, as we found through the course of this. There are no Adele songs where I'm like, it's okay. It's like, oh, I love that song, or I'm kind of out on that song. I don't really need it. And I feel like the ones that I want, basically I'm the Rams is what I'm telling you in this draft, because I'm going to go for the big stars,

and then I'm just going to fill out the rest of the roster with three songs that I just don't really connect with. But I don't care, because I think you're going to overlook my weaknesses, and just be blown away by my top three. That's sort of my approach. And my top three are, without question, to be loved. Filling rooms with all my hopes and fears.

When we were young, so you and I have that overlap. And I just can't, I don't think I can live without make you feel my love. No, there's nothing that I will. My love. I just, that is the song for me that I, that is the appointment listening Adele song for me, along with to be loved at the moment that I just go to. It has a whole moment and a vibe for me as opposed to what I find a lot of the time with an Adele album, which is that I love listening to it front to back, but it's sort of background more so

than, oh, it's this song. I'm so, you know, focused on that one. So I fill out with those three big ones. And then, you know, I have to fill it out with three dollar songs. And these are songs that, like, I'd be okay shooting into the sun. I don't really care because I think you're going to be so excited about the first three. So my three that I pick are best for last. Thank you, Juliet. A love song, which I really can't stand, but I have to put something on this. and you only gave me a dollar and a million years ago because it makes me think of Phantom of the Opera.

Life was a party to be thrown but that was a million years ago. So those are the ones that I would pick. Honestly, I probably would swap out love song for First Love. Because I think First Love from, So you're not touching. To me, right as rain is the best value

in the dollar category. It's the only one of those songs that I like really tolerate. Well, look, what's hard for me on all this is to pass up songs like rumor has it. Now, rumor has it. She ain't got your love anymore.

Rumor has it. Which feels like good value to me. Water under the bridge. Which feels like great value to me. You know, All I ask, which I agree with Juliet, like the Bruno stuff is, is, you know, really shines through on that. I think that that... You know, the song that I was sad, I couldn't, I couldn't afford under the budget.

I drink wine. Stop trying to be... Okay. I was really bummed. I couldn't. I was like, I don't know. I don't, again, I don't know that it means that much to me. But it was a song that struck me as, shoot. I would like to have access to that when I want it.

Like when I want just sort of like a cozy, a little loungy, very Adele song that's still up. Yeah. I want it. I like it. Yeah. I think that's fair. I mean, what do we think is underrated? There wasn't money in the budget for it.

But I just, I wanted it. I was sad about it. Do you have any on reflection, are there any over or underrated, like value? was, what do we think? You know, I mean, love in the dark, I really think that's, you know, I heard Juliet's point on 25, that's the one for me that we've talked about. It sounds a little bit like a hostage video and that

we know that one was about Simon and and there really is sort of a depth and emotion and they're now, especially when you look back with understanding the context. For three bucks, hey, it's not bad. Yeah. Yeah, there's some good. I like sweetest devotion. Again, I think, I wish we'd said this

like in the first five minutes of the first episode. I love Adele because Adele is amazing. I am fundamentally predisposed to not be the right person to listen to Adele because as we discovered with Juliet, I'm not a wallower. Like, that's not my preferred mode of emoting. So I do weirdly, like, where I can find value is the more upbeat songs where everyone's like,

screw this. This is not the point. I want to cry and listen to Adele, obviously. And I'm like, oh, sweetest devotion's pretty good. I definitely am swapping out love song for first love, by the way. The more that I just am thinking about love song, the principle and concept of it is driving me insane. Because there's so many other covers as we explored through the course of this journey that I think are better candidates than that one was. But this was, but this was. But this was, really good. This was good value assignment, too. I don't think that you can argue that we massively over or underrated any of these songs, although I'm sure people will, and I'd be very interested to hear their case. I mean, hold on is in an Amazon commercial. It's only six bucks.

Not bad. Please do pay attention because we will be having a test on this online. Amazon probably paid more. You know they did. You can put a million in front of that six. I just have a feeling. Well, we've done it. we have done it. We've gone through Adele. This was very fun. I have to say, any last takeaways to this? For me, Nora, the thing that I sit with as I reflected on our journey and what I heard from Juliet, too, I still don't have a great answer to this question of whether the universal accessibility of Adele is about her being actually specific in the language of her song. writing or being somewhat generic that allows people to pour their own stuff and their own meaning into these songs and that actually it is their relative sort of they're not generic songs that's the wrong way to say it but some of the language in the songwriting is somewhat somewhat high level

and that without the specificity either that we get from her as a human being or as a songwriter the sort of soaring nature of her voice allows people to sort of find bits of themselves in these songs. That makes for a great artist, that's what divas do. But that's a very, very, very different journey than the one we went through with Taylor Swift. Yeah, well, I think to your question, I do think that it is the latter.

I do think that just creating something that is very first-personed, person narrative, but doesn't have a lot of specifics that would make it about Adele. Like, it's sort of about, it's about me. It's not about Adele. Adele happens to be singing it, but the me can be anybody. It can be you. It can be Julietette.

It can be anybody who's listening. Then, coupled with a voice that almost universally anyone would want to have that experience with, anyone would want to listen to. Because while we've pushed up against the edges a couple times, of, okay, how many piano ballads can one person really do? How much can this voice just let every other element coast off of? The answer is not everything. The voice cannot just be the entire thing that they're selling,

but it can do an awful lot, right? Because listening to Adele is amazing. And if you already have that to add into it, songwriting that enables people to put themselves into it really easily, I think that's sort of the formula. Well, either way, we have two very different paths to being one of the handful of biggest artists in the world under our belt at this point. These are very interesting paths that have come in different ways. One is about sharing every single part of who you are in public and in your songs, and the other is being very guarded.

and yet it's Taylor who gets generally the knock of being super controlling about her image and it's Adele who is found to be the universally accessible one. I don't necessarily think those are unfair criticisms, but they are very different paths to be in a huge star. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think it's a secret which one is more compelling to me personally, but they've both obviously been hugely successful for. or two different people who want different things and have different paths. And that's what's interesting about diving into both of them and makes me excited to see where we go next.

Thanks for the journey, Nora. See you soon, Nathan. This has been every single album, Adele. I'm Nora Pinciotti. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kai McMullen for producing this episode. We will be back at a later date. See you soon.