Everyday AI Podcast – An AI and ChatGPT Podcast - EP 227: A Beautiful AI - How AI is being used in the Beauty industry

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

Awesome Stuff From Our Partner, NVIDIA -Register for the FREE virtual NVIDIA GTC Conference or buy tickets to the in-person event and fill out this form here: https://www.youreverydayai.com/nvidia-giveaway/AI can be ugly. But it can also be beautiful. Literally. Like when AI is used in the beauty industry. Wayne Liu, President and Chief Growth Officer at Perfect Corp, joins us to talk about how AI is changing the beauty industry.Newsletter: Sign up for our free daily newsletterMore on this Episode: Episode pageJoin the discussion: Ask Jordan and Wayne questions on AI in the beauty industryRelated Episodes:Ep 207: AI Will Allow Us All to Make Music We EnjoyEp 213: AI Meets Doctors – Turning Healthcare from a Service to a ProductUpcoming Episodes: Check out the upcoming Everyday AI Livestream lineupWebsite: YourEverydayAI.comEmail The Show: [e-mail] with Jordan on LinkedInTimestamps:01:45 About Wayne and Perfect Corp05:51 Experimenting with generative AI in fashion simulation.06:51 Discussion on virtual beauty technology.09:15 AI and medical education16:25 AI images shaping societal perception of beauty.23:54 AI helps choose products suitable for skin.Topics Covered in This Episode:1. AI in the Beauty Industry2. About Perfect Corp3.  Future of AI in the Beauty Industry4. AI's Broader Medical ApplicationsKeywords:AI impact on beauty industry, artificial intelligence, future of AI in beauty, generative AI, leveraging AI, daily livestream podcast, newsletter, virtual try-on, makeup, skin analysis, medical field, deep learning, machine learning, shade matching, skin tone, simulation, GAN, stable fusion, fashion, 3D object, personalization, societal impacts, augmented intelligence, return on investment, user experience, sustainable beauty, responsible AI, social responsibility, education, beauty industry trends.Send Everyday AI and Jordan a text message. (We can't reply back unless you leave contact info) Start Here ▶️Not sure where to start when it comes to AI? Start with our Start Here Series. You can listen to the first drop -- Episode 691 -- or get free access to our Inner Cricle community and all episodes: StartHereSeries.com Also, here's a link to the entire series on a Spotify playlist. 

This is the Everyday AI Show, the Everyday Podcast where we simplify AI and bring its power to your fingertips. Listen daily for practical advice to boost your career, business, and everyday life. Meet Firefly AI Assistant, now live in Adobe Firefly, the All-in-One creative AI studio. Just describe what you want to create and the assistant handles the rest, orchestrating multi-step workflows across Photoshop, Premiere Express, and more in one conversational interface. You direct the outcome. The assistant accelerates execution. One thing we haven't talked a whole lot on the everyday AI show is how AI is already impacting the beauty industry.

And not just how it's already impacting, but how it may impact it in the future. Because there's a lot, I think, of conversation to be had around artificial intelligence and beauty. So that is today's conversation. And I'm extremely excited for this and talk about. how a beautiful AI and how AI can shake up the beautiful, the beauty industry. All right. So thank you for joining us. If you're new here, my name's Jordan Wilson, and this is Everyday AI.

We're a daily live stream podcast and free daily newsletter, helping everyday people learn and leverage generative AI to grow their company and to grow their careers. So if you're joining us on the podcast, thank you. As always, check out your show notes in the episode description for more information and to subscribe to our daily newsletter. And I like to tell people, if you're going to be a show. You haven't gone to your everyday AI.com yet and subscribe to our free daily newsletter.

We're definitely missing out. It is one of the largest and best collections of generative AI education interviews that there is, period. All right. So I'm excited for today's conversation. And, hey, we're technically debuting this live, but sometimes people can't make our 730 AM Central Standard. And that's okay. So this is technically a pre-recorded version, but we're bringing it to you live. I'll still be in the comments answering questions.

So still get them in if you have them. But with that, I'm very excited to have our guest for today. There we go. So please help me welcome to the show. Wayne Liu, the president and chief growth officer of Perfect Core. Wayne, thank you so much for joining everyday AI. You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

Oh, absolutely. This is going to be a fun conversation. but, you know, Wayne, before we get started, just I would love to hear a little bit more about you, your background, and, you know, kind of what you do at PerfectCorp. Yeah, so again, thank you. Really great to have this opportunity to talk about AI, especially in the beauty industry. So my name is Wayne Liu. I'm the president and chief course officer of PerfectCorp.

I'm also one of the co-founder. So PerfectCorp has been in the business for about eight and a half years. We start from a startup company. And then in 2022, we went public, you know, listed in the New York Stock Exchange. So basically, we are a technology company. However, our technology served a very interesting industry, which is the beauty.

Okay, so majority of our product is being used by the beauty company. For example, S.E. Lounder, you know, like LVMatch of the world and also some of the retailer, like a Worma. So they use our technology in a different aspect. So majority are using in the virtual try-on. So you can, of course, you know, try many different, the color, you know, the eye color and the lipstick. And also, that's something we're getting to just recently is doing the skin analysis. We're using AI, of course, like deep learning and all kinds of thing to create a full, like a simple skin analysis.

You know, just, you know, not only in the beauty world, but also getting to the medical field. Yeah. sold. Yeah, and I definitely want to go down those roads, Wayne. But first, you know, I have a question. So, you know, Perfect Corps, you said, has been around for eight years, a publicly traded company. How has just AI, even just for you all internally, what you do in your day to day, you know, obviously artificial intelligence is not new. It's been around in U.S. industries for, for many decades. But I'm even curious from when you all first started eight years ago to today, how has your implementation of whether it's traditional, you know,

AI and deep learning and machine learning to generative AI. How has your AI implementation internally changed throughout the years? That's a great, great question. I have to say because people thought like AI equal to chat GDPD, right? So it's just, but actually AI has a long history, as you say, from day one we are using AI, especially because we are dealing with makeup, you know, to search. So you have to identify, you recognize your face.

So the first thing is actually to understand your face or the feature point is a learning process. You know, we need to get many data for this machine to learn exactly like where your eye is and where your nose or where it lives. And also understand the color, the color side of the product. So how we put the lip six on your lips and then consider the reflection of the light, consider, you know, the environment. So that's why we can show the true to real. So that's the very beginning. We are using the AI, of course, learning your faces. And then we get into a shape matching because we have a, you know, you're dealing with

the makeup. So foundation, your skin tone. So we need to identify the shape. So we are using deep learning to learn all kinds of different skin tone. Okay. So then we can very clearly to recognize your skin and then we do a matching. That's about the deep learning. You know, we use a lot.

Then, of course, the skin, we have about like a 70,000 data point to begin with to build our very robust and solid the skin analysis engine. In order to make AI, I won't say no, like 100% no bias, they say almost impossible, less bias. We need to collect lots of data, across different astenetic group and the skin conditions. And then we are doing simulation. So because you know, what if? So your skin look like this. And then what if after treatment,

what your skin will look like? We do some simulation, but simulation part actually is the generative AI. So we start with again, you know, generative adversary network. But then right now we migrate it to more like on the stable fusion side because that's, I'll say it's more efficient.

And then also we get into fashion. You can see some of this fashion, 3D object, how you create is a 3D object without really have the 3D object. So it's all learning and creation. So our company is more like an evolution of AI. Start with machine learning, deep learning, generative AI. And also right now we try to create the interface using, of course, a large language model.

But the user can communicate what they really want to the machine. And then, you know, the engine can generate the beautiful look for them. And, and, you know, for those of you joining on the podcast, you know, here on the live stream, I'm kind of showing the perfect core website and kind of explaining some of these different things that Wayne's, you know, talking about, you know, everything from, yeah, you know, virtual kind of skin, you know, helping skin conditions, you know, trying on glasses virtually. You know, Wayne, at least where things are today. I just want to, I just want to get straight to it. because I want to learn about what's coming, you know, in the beauty industry. But where do you see this going, especially, right, because, you know, here at everyday AI, we talk a lot more about generative AI. So specifically even there, how do you see generative AI, you know, changing things in the years

to come specifically for the beauty industry? Yeah. So actually that, you know, it's a very fundamental question for the developer like us. The generative AI saves us lots of time. you know, it becomes more efficient. Previously, as I said, you go through this deep learning. Of course, you know, generative AI, you still need to learn, but it's more powerful. And also using this again, right?

So if you're using, for example, one of the examples is we create a hairstyle. If you're using GEN AI, I mean, you know, your generative diversity network, it probably takes five days to come out with one special hairstyle. But if you're using stable fusion as one of the Gen AI, probably just like a couple of hours. you can create a hairstyle. So it's become more efficient. And then on the productivity side, it's increased, you know, manifold.

And also accuracy, you know, compared to what this, you know, more like a game, which would generate something is more accurate. It's more efficient. So that's why I guess for our customer, they really love to see that because they can get the product in the last,

the shortened time and also cost less. everything, you know, just because of the gen AI, it become more efficient and then the productivity increased a lot. So we will continue to invest. And our brand partner, actually, they love to see this and then also they will continue invest. So, you know, I think we showed a lot of, you know, kind of referenced a lot of different use cases. So, you know, things in the fashion industry, aesthetics, you know, the whole beauty industry. But I'm wondering, you know, outside of that, Wayne, how can this technology, like as a whole? So not even necessarily talking about perfect core specifically, but how can this technology as a whole be used for other things that maybe aren't

even related to beauty, right? So for medical conditions, et cetera, how can generative AI right now be used to help in some of those, you know, non-beauty but related to beauty areas? Yeah. So basically, I think education and then empowerment, that's the two things. Two things. I see from the generative AI. What I'm saying that is the first is education. For example, you know, if you are patient, you have some condition in your hair, I mean, your face, you really don't know what happened. You just know your face is not perfect, something wrong.

So you went to a doctor's office, dermatologist, you want to get some treatment. And the doctor probably tell you something that is real like a medical turn. Okay, so they probably said, well, your skin is, you know, it's like a 30% less compared to your demographic, compared to your same age, and you may have some, you know, sound damage here and there. But, you know, the patient actually has no idea about what 30% mean, what compared to average your patient, and then what's the sound damage you look like. But using AI and also generative AI, actually just scan your faces, right? Of course, through the machine learning. So right now this AI is more like they have a knowledge

to become a dematologist. They look your faces, scan your faces, and then we can graphically, like visually, displaced where your problem is, and then, you know, 30%, right? So 30% will show you what's the perfect one and what's the 30% look like. So it's more like education. So the patient, when they step into the clinic, they feel less vulnerable because they know. And also the doctor probably can use, as I said, the generative AI to show them what if. Okay, so, you know, you have lots of options. you can do this treatment, you can do lack treatment.

So for example, if you do this non-invasive treatment, you probably give you a 40% increase. I mean, and then, but if you want to do a surgery, it probably give you a 70% improvement. So then everything can be simulated. So you know what will happen. So that's why I think education is very important. And on the other side, because you possess knowledge,

because this AI teach you, you know, you know what happened. So they empower you. you can start making your decision. Okay, so you probably say 40% improvement is good enough. So I really don't need to get into surgery. I can do a non-invasive point. Or if you really like to have a 70% improvement, you do the surgery, you know what will happen.

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firefly.adobie.com. You know, you bring up a lot of great points because, you know, there's obviously medical applications for AI and even for your products and services, but then there is just the beauty industry as well. And I'd say, you know, from an outsider observing, I think the beauty industry has changed a lot, you know, with social media. I think it's really heightened, you know, maybe people's expectations of beauty or even what it means to be beautiful. You know, I guess what are the type of conversations, you know, that maybe you and your colleagues or others in related industries specifically around artificial intelligence and beauty, what are some of those conversations that you're having?

Because I'm sure it's, it's, you know, you have to strike a balance, right? between, you know, helping people, you know, feel more beautiful, but also not, you know, going too far and kind of pushing this that you have to, you know, do all of these things or you have to wear this makeup or you have to have, you know, this procedure in order to be beautiful. How do you balance that? Yeah. So again, that's a great question. It's always a conversation among, you know, us, you know, internally and also with our client. You know, we've been dealing with all these big beauty company. So the thing here is what is really beauty? How you define that? Okay, but we call the beauty one dot oh. It means like they put a beautiful model on top of this poster or put a magazine. They

tell you that's beauty. So everybody try to mimic or try to be more like that perfect figure. However, with the technology, especially AI, we talk about personalization. Okay, that's the one thing which is very important is, especially in the beauty world. So the definition of beauty is really on the eye of the beholder. So you start to define your own beauty, especially for this younger generation, like a Gen Z and even this Gen Alpha. They have their own idea about what the beauty look like, and AI can really help them.

For example, first, this AI can be more like a consultation. Again, look at your faces and look at what your preference. they may come out with some recommendation, which is just for you. I always like to say, AI can make a demographic of one. Because you are not compared to other people, you are just by yourself, because you are unique. So that's why we do this in the beauty industry. And then we provide the tool, we provide the information.

At the end of the day, you define your own beauty. Okay, you can use all this digital tool using the information we provide. again, empowerment, education, and you start to show yourself. And then, you know, you put yourself in front of the, you know, say like the social media. And then you use the digital tool to help you to create your own beauty. So that's why sometimes it's the opposite one people say, you know, people think about AI, you know, you try to perfect everything, it becomes fake. So that's probably is one thinking.

But actually, what happened in the beauty industry is empower people, personalization and AI, especially Gen. I can really help you to do that. You know, I'm curious, Wayne, and this is a little bit outside of maybe your day-to-day thought process, you know, because you're out there building and growing a large company. But, you know, we kind of talked about how social media over the last decade or so has impacted people's perception of beauty and maybe even, you know, them seeking out treatments for their skin, etc. How do you think? think, you know, AI images, right? Like, I think over the last year, that's really changed. I think,

you know, what people's perception of beauty maybe is. You know, there's been a lot of studies that, you know, whatever you put in an AI image generator, whether you're using, you know, Dali from Open AI or Mid-Journey or Stable Diffusion, it's hard to make average-looking people, right? Like, like everything that you put in there on the other end, it just seems to make the person look a little better or more aesthetically pleasing, like, no matter what you ask for. I guess what's your take on that and how it's, you know, societal impacts of just generative AI like that, you know, constantly putting out, you know, content where people just look a little too perfect. Yeah. So actually, you know, I have to admit that can be a problem, right? So, you know, of course,

we try to push this personalization and then try to like give you comfort than you. But, you know, the other way, you're using this generative AI will create a lot of image, which is not real, right? But you look perfect. So it's the same thing like you're using chat GPT. You're asking them to write in the article for you, but it actually is not what you are writing. So you are hiding behind that. So I will say that one is something we cannot avoid.

So it's also depends on how you're going to use the AI. Also, AI is a tool. So ideally, AI can be the assistance, we call the augmenting. intelligent. They can make you better, but you still don't want to lose yourself. So that's why I guess education and some of this, you know, thought leader, you really need to get people to understand AI is something we can help you, but it cannot replace you because the human factor is still very important, right? So that's, you know, that's some negative side you cannot avoid. That just happened. But on the positive side, that's why, you know, education and so leadership,

probably the program like yours can really get into like the right recognition, how we're going to use the AI in the right way. So that's my take on that. You know, I'm curious. Maybe we should have started here. But, you know, like everything that you're talking about that you're doing at perfect core, it's very interesting. But, you know, even with your background, right, like working at Nvidia, like how did you

stumble, you know, upon, or maybe it wasn't stumbling upon, but how did, you know, kind of your own foray into perfect core and beauty? How did this even happen? Yeah. So actually, I said, my journey is an interesting one. So I was an engineer, you know, I get a degree as engineer degree. And then my first job is with Intel. And my last engineering job is with Nvidia. Okay, then I think that engineering side is interesting, but I decide to seeking something more broader, okay, because I design things, right? So I designed GPU. However, how to use, how this GPU being used in the real world is something I'm very curious about. So then I get into a company, which actually, it was a perfect course of parent company called Cyberlink. So their company is software company. They are using all this hardware. Now then I have a better idea. understand how people using this semiconductor equipment and how they use it in the real world. And then I get interesting. And then, you know, our, which is my boss and then also my longtime friend and mentor, Alice Chen,

who is our CEO. She was the CEO founder of Cyberlink. And then she wanted to find another company. Interesting is she wants technology to serve more women. Okay. Because herself is a female. So they say, why don't we get something? fun and for women and then immediately think about makeup. And then she says, well, actually,

let's try something like this. Okay, using technology and the makeup to serve the, you know, the women, female community. And then I just get assignment. So our CEO said, you know, go ahead and let's do this venture. They start this company. That's how I get into it. So personally, you know, I have no idea about makeup. I'm not wearing makeup. I have no idea. But we're just interestingly, we're getting to this journey. Also, this is a magic journey. So we are getting to beauty and right now establish ourselves as the leader in the beauty technology. Oh, it's such a good story, right?

Like, probably never would have guessed 10 years ago. No. That you would be in the mission that you're in now. My father wanted me to be more like a NASA scientist. Oh, well, okay. So let's just even go there, you know, as, as we kind of wrap this conversation. So, you know, 10 years ago, maybe you didn't think that you would be here, you know,

helping to drive really the beauty industry forward when it comes to technology and AI. So even maybe as you look at the next couple of years or the next five or 10 years, I know it's hard, right? But where do you see specifically with AI, specifically with generative AI? Where do you see the beauty industry going? Yeah, so I will say the AI, it's not like a, it's just like, it was day. It's not like a one shot and I'll say something like a metaverse, right? Because when we see metaverse, it's really, the application is a little bit shaky, you know, but AI is really solid because I feel a couple of things. First is really increased productivity. As I mentioned, you know, we are our engineering using AI to help them to design. And then so that's why I guess increased productivity is really one thing. in the beauty industry, but also in general. And especially in the beauty, because we create all this tool, which will help as work with

the human side by side. That's why I'm always said augmented intelligent. So it really helps the beauty industry be more efficient. In the meantime, you know, increase the productivity. And then we are not really replacing human because we still work with the human together. So that's why I think first thing is it will stay. And then the second thing is the high. how this ability industry is using AI, at the end of the day, they want to see return.

It doesn't matter how fun it is, you can create some fun stuff, but for the business perspective, they want to see this tool be useful. They generate a couple of return on the business measure. First is a return of investment, conversion rate. So if AI can help to convert, of course, they will be good. And if AI can help to improve the user experience, get users stay, and then get probably using Generative AI to educate the customer. So definitely that's one thing, you know, the business is looking at. And then also the third thing is how to using AI to help their product or their industry become more sustainable.

Okay, what I'm saying that is for choosing the ingredient. Okay, because, you know, if you get some allergy or something with some kind of ingredient, potentially AI can tell you, okay, for the product you are trying to choose, choose, you're using, would they have anything? Not necessarily harmful, but not suitable for your scheme. They will give you this, for the recommendation, you can use a better, a cleaning, more like a clear resource, I mean the ingredient. And also, by using AI plus AR, of course, you try something virtually.

You don't really need to get into the tester. You can try virtually, as many as you like, you can create, and then reduce the waste. Because if you get something which is really you don't like, you return it. And then in the beauty industry, if you return something, they throw it away. It's no way to recycle things. So they just throw it away. So that's why by sheer amount of saving the tester with the AI and AR, we have actually a research. It probably saved roughly 1.2 million kilograms of carbon dioxide.

And then one of our partner, you know, Kao is a Japanese company. they're using artificial intelligence and AI to help a customer to try the hair color instead of give the sample. They save 57 tons of plastic. Okay. So all aspects is a positive about. Of course, we talk about, you know, some negative thing. But I guess at the end of the day, people like us who we create AI, people like you, you promote the AI, we have the responsibility to make AI on the right track. Okay, so how you train AI, how you use AI, it's really, you will have a different track if you're just using AI in some other evil way.

They may cause harm, right? So that's why I think I feel more responsible, social responsibility right now, since we are the one who create using AI to start creating lots of tools. You can help people, that's a goal. We don't want to hurt people. So that's why, you know, we have the responsibility on the AI side. I love that. You know, what you just said right there, I think is a perfect takeaway and a great way to wrap today's show by just talking about, yes, you can use AI for growth in productivity. I mean, you're a perfect example of that president of a public company, but you can also do it in a sustainable and responsible way. I love that message. And thank you. Thank you so much, Wayne, for joining the everyday AI show to tell us, you know, take us both on your journey of how you're using. using AI at perfect core, but also the future of the business, you know, the future of AI in the beauty industry and how others can use it as well. So we very much appreciate your time and for

sharing your story. You are very welcome. I really enjoy the conversation. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me again. All right. Hey, thank you again, Wayne. And as a quick reminder, don't worry, I'm still in the comments. If you have any questions, hit me up. Maybe Wayne might be able to stop by and answer some as well. So thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening. And as a reminder, go to your everyday AI.com. Sign it for that free daily newsletter. We'll be recapping today's episode and more. Thank you for joining us.

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