Everyday AI Podcast – An AI and ChatGPT Podcast - EP 252: What schools need to do now to benefit from an AI future

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

Let's agree on this: so many schools are dropping the ball on GenAI. So, what should schools be doing NOW to make sure they can benefit from an AI future? We find out with Darren Coxon, Founder of Coxon AI. Newsletter: Sign up for our free daily newsletterMore on this Episode: Episode PageJoin the discussion: Ask Jordan and Darren questions on AI in educationRelated Episodes:Ep 168: AI in Higher Education is Broken. How to Fix it.Ep 178: Teaching The Next Generation About AIUpcoming Episodes: Check out the upcoming Everyday AI Livestream lineupWebsite: YourEverydayAI.comEmail The Show: [e-mail] with Jordan on LinkedInTimestamps:01:20 Daily AI news04:05 About Darren and Coxon AI07:57 Fear and misunderstanding of AI in education.10:52 AI alignment with school leaders crucial for success.15:59 AI in education example using Gemini and Claude.17:51 AI as learning support, teachers should improve.20:38 Schools under pressure to adopt AI strategies.24:29 Feeling like part of an experiment, teaching above.27:08 Kids learning DNA through friendly AI conversations.30:38 Start using it with younger non-exam students.Topics Covered in This Episode:1. AI as a Support Tool, Not a Replacement2. Schools and Their Relation to AI3. Integration of AI Into Curriculum and Teaching Approaches4. Slow Pace of Change in Education Systems5. Adopting AI in Low-Stakes Educational SituationsKeywords:AI in education, Darren Coxon, AI strategy in schools, artificial intelligence, engaging students, pedagogy, chatbots in education, cyberbullying, plagiarism, safeguarding, digital strategy in schools, human skills, critical thinking, creativity, education system change, generative AI, hyper-personalized learning, human-focused activities, everydayai.com newsletter, AI integration concerns, fear of AI, large language models, leadership alignment, AI misconceptions, future of education, AI fun, AI adoption, Microsoft & g42 partnership, AMD GPU chips, NVIDIA GPU chips.Send Everyday AI and Jordan a text message. (We can't reply back unless you leave contact info) Start Here ▶️Not sure where to start when it comes to AI? Start with our Start Here Series. You can listen to the first drop -- Episode 691 -- or get free access to our Inner Cricle community and all episodes: StartHereSeries.com Also, here's a link to the entire series on a Spotify playlist. 

This is the Everyday AI Show, the Everyday Podcast where we simplify AI and bring its power to your fingertips. Listen daily for practical advice to boost your career, business, and everyday life. Meet Firefly AI Assistant, now live in Adobe Firefly, the All-in-One creative AI studio. Just describe what you want to create and the assistant handles the rest, orchestrating multi-step workflows across Photoshop, Premiere Express, and more in one conversational interface. You direct the outcome. The assistant accelerates execution. What should schools be doing now to benefit from AI in the future?

It's something that we talk about a little bit here on the everyday AI show. But I think what schools are doing now when it comes to AI, are they using it? Are they banning it? Do they have a policy? Do they have a plan? I think so much of what schools are doing today is going to greatly impact our collective tomorrow, not just for these students in school, but for our economy, for our society. I think this is a very important conversation to have.

So we're going to be talking about that today and more on Everyday AI. What's going on, y'all? My name's Jordan Wilson. I'm the host of Everyday AI. And this show is for you. It is your daily live stream, podcast, and free daily newsletter, helping everyday people like you and me, not just learn generative AI, but how we can all actually leverage it. In today's conversation about what schools should be doing now for an AI future is no exception.

I think this is an extremely important conversation and have a great guest for today. But before we dive into that, let's do as we do every single day and dive into the AI news. All right. So Microsoft is making a $1.5 billion investment in UAE company G42. So according to reports, Microsoft will invest $1.5 billion in the AI firm G4. after the company agreed to end cooperation with China and pivot to American technology. Microsoft's investment in G42 is a significant move in the field of AI and shows the increasing importance of the UAE in this industry. So this partnership will focus on AI technology and infrastructure to underserved nations in the Middle East, Central Asia, and Africa.

Also, the company G42's decision to end cooperation with China, which was part of this agreement, and focus on American technology is likely due to increasing pressure from the U.S. government and concerns over potential partnerships with blacklisted Chinese companies. Also, this deal reflects the ongoing tensions and power struggle between the U.S. and China in the global AI market. Some, however, may argue that G42's decision to sever ties with China and pivot to American technology is not a sincere move, but rather just a strategic business decision. All right, our next piece of AI news, we actually have a double dose here. Chips, chips, and more chips.

We always talk about chips here on the everyday AI show. But AMD and Invidia have both released new AI-focused GPU chips. So, AMD has unveiled new processors targeting AI-enabled PCs aiming to compete with Nvidia and Intel, although it's really just Nvidia in a category of their own right now. So, AMD's new processors utilize advanced. four nanometer technology and are set to be released in the second quarter of 2024. Gardner is predicting that AI PCs, kind of a new terminology, will make up 22% of all PCs by 2024.

So what that means is essentially PCs or computers that have the ability to run generative AI locally, such as large language model, edge devices, etc. Not to be undone, Nvidia silently released updates to its G-Force RTFs lines of G. which are aimed at consumer computing and not, you know, cloud computing. So, Nvidia released the RTXA 1000 and the A400 entry-level GPUs. All right, we're going to have more on those stories and more in today's newsletter. So if you haven't already, make sure to go to your everyday AI.com and sign up for that free daily newsletter, a lot more on the news, what else is happening in the world of AI,

and a lot more from today's interview as well. So speaking of that, we have to be talking about how AI is being used in the educational system. So don't worry, you're not just going to hear me go on a rant because I've done that probably once before. So let's go ahead and bring on our guest for today. So please help me welcome Darren Coxon, the founder of Coxon AI. Darren, thank you so much for joining the show. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, Jordan.

Oh, absolutely. Darren, can you just help explain to our audience a little bit of what you do at Coxon? AI. Yeah, so look, I mean, I'm an ex-teacher, ex-teacher, I've run schools, groups of schools all over the world. And kind of year, year and a half guy, realized that we had something big on our hands here. You know, AI wasn't going anywhere. It was only going to become significantly more disruptive across our whole education system. And so I decided to really go right down the rabbit hole, went right in there. And as a result, have got into a position where I'm now supporting schools all over the world with their AI implementation, delivering lectures.

delivering keynotes, workshops, wholesale strategic development work as well. So all over the place, really. And just, you know, Darren, you know, we were talking a little bit before the show. And, you know, obviously this conversation varies, right? Like we were even talking a little bit about, you know, the UAE and in some of today's news. And, you know, you're in the UK. I'm here in the US. And our listeners are from all over the globe. Can you give everyone just a little bit of background? You know, where do you see things right now in terms of, you know, you? schools, how are they using it? Does it vary in different parts of the world? Where are you seeing kind of the thumbprint, so to speak, of how schools are using AI right now? Yeah, I mean, I think

what we're seeing is very small pockets of innovation across the world. And by small pockets, I would literally might mean one teacher in a school. There's very little whole school adoption of AI at the moment. There's still quite a lot of fear. There's still quite a lot of ignorance. just in the way that people don't know what they don't know. I think we're not at the moment seeing that wholesale adoption of AI. We're just sort of seeing one or two people who are kind of playing around the edges and finding their way and feeling their way through. So I think we've got quite a long way to go yet. And Darren, you know what? Like if I would have hit the rewind button to maybe a year ago or two years ago, I think that what you just said would make a lot of sense.

why do you think we are this far in to kind of a degenerative AI world, yet there are so few schools or so few educators that are actually taking advantage of this technology? Why do you think that is? I think, well, number one, schools move very slowly, okay? And they always have. I mean, we've had our education system for around about 250 years in one shape or another. It hasn't changed much in that time. There's a reason for that. Things move very slowly. there are so many vested interests in our education system remaining as it is. As much as anything, the university system, they need a certain product to leave, you know, to leave the school and to move into university.

So I think we've got ourselves into a situation where we've got so many interconnecting parts. It's actually very, very hard to change that narrative. And I think it will have to happen slowly, but it is going to take time. Another reason is a lot of teachers simply don't have the time. And I work with teachers all over the world, and they're all telling me the same thing that when am I going to have the time to learn this? You know, it's so much to take and it's so complicated. And they're hearing the fear.

They're hearing about bias. They're hearing about, you know, deep fakes and voice cloning. And I think there's just an awful lot of fear wrapped around AI. And as a result, most teachers are like, well, AI don't have the time. And B, do you know what? It just terrifies me. And I'd just rather not even think about it. You know what, Darren, that's, you bring up a good point there, right?

because those concerns are valid. But at the same time, you know, something that I've, you know, been talking about here on the show and something, you know, maybe when we're consulting with businesses, I tell people swap out the word generative AI or large language models for internet, for the word internet. And then see if that comment still makes sense. Do you think that maybe it is, it is more of a fear piece that is keeping this from the schools,

or do you think that it is more of just a misunderstanding? because I think those are two of the biggest, you know, issues, which one, if you had to pick one, is it maybe fear or misunderstanding that it's maybe keeping AI from making its way into the educational system? I think they're both, and I think one follows the other. And we see this across history, that fear follows misunderstanding. Because if you don't understand something, then you become scared of it. The reason I'm doing what I'm doing is I'm naturally, I'm the sort of personality, when something concerns me and makes me nervous, I need to learn as much as I can about it. I've always been the same. And this is why I'm doing what I'm doing, because I can see that there's a

tremendous amount of concern around things like chat, GPT, writing your essays for you, things like we're no longer going to think for ourselves, because AI is just going to do the thinking. We can kind of co-opt our thinking to AI. This sort of fear, this fear narrative, essentially it's bread of ignorance. And as soon as you start to unlock AI, which we can talk a few, give a few examples in a moment, some of the potential unlocks, people are just going to stay in fear. So I think we, we have to change that narrative. Stop talking about AI and fear all the time and start talking about AI and creativity

and AI in innovation and AI as an unlock. That's when we can start maybe to change the narrative. You know, Darren, one of our, someone tuning in live here on YouTube had a great point talking about said, I would argue that children and young people will use AI faster than this system can keep up. I mean, teachers have to be aware, correct,

that just about every student is using, you know, whether it's chat, GPT or Claude or Gemini, but teachers have to be aware that students are using large language models to write their papers or help in some way, shape or form, yet schools still haven't, you know, for the most part, you know, really embrace this. So maybe what are the steps, you know, does it start with leadership? Like, where does this actually start? I think, yeah, you've just, actually, you've just hit on the exact place to start. Just back to my first point. The challenge we have with pockets, small pockets, is that there's no sort of strategic direction with AI in most schools. They're kind of playing around the edges rather than

actually getting stuck straight in. So when the first things that has to happen is that we need some alignment with the leadership team level. We need basically the head teacher, the governors of the school need to be working. This is why most of my workers at the leadership level, most of my workers at the strategic level. I don't do a great deal of working with individual teachers. I work with the heads, I work with groups, the heads of CEOs of big groups of schools, because actually you need that alignment first. And it's bizarre, because often we talk about top down being bad, but actually because of the level, because of the amount of fear we have, you have to have your head teacher feeling comfortable personally with he or she needs to be feeling comfortable using it, for themselves,

personally, in their own job, in their own personal life or what have you. And once you do that, actually, that's when the unlock, it's like dominoes. You've got to start with. the first domino because if you don't and all of those dominoes further down the track are going, the ones at the beginning are still standing and they've not caught, they've not got the, the energy of the rest of the school. So always start at the top. And then if you can get that alignment, then I think the rest, the rest should follow. Yeah, Darren, so I'm interested as someone that's talked to probably way more educators than any of us, you know, listening or tuning in. what is maybe a thing or two that you've maybe been taken aback by,

by talking to these people in leaderships, people who are running school districts, CEOs of systems, however it's set up. Maybe what's some of the feedback that you've heard or questions that you've heard over and over that you were just like, wow, there is really a deep misunderstanding of this technology. Yeah, I think the idea that AI will just do our thinking for us. I mean, that for me is the biggest one. You know, that suddenly if we start using chat GPT or Claude or Gemini or whatever, that suddenly we no longer have to start thinking, actually, it's not the case,

because basically it's like what they call garbage in, garbage out, that you need to, and you talked about this when I looked, I watched your show last week. The importance of, you call it prompt engineering, prompt, I actually like the term prompt psychology, because I almost feel like I work with AI in a more kind of psychological way, you know, working with the behavior side of AI, whatever you call it, doesn't matter. You need to understand that if you put crap in, you'll get crap out. And so actually, you've got to be a critical thinker.

You've got to be a really good writer to be able to get, you know, decent stuff out of, out of AI. So actually, it's not about making you dumb. It's actually just using your brain and your intelligence and what have you in different ways. So I definitely think that that's the one, one the first thing, I talk about is actually it won't, if you use it properly, it's not going to make you stupid at all. Yeah. And hey, as a reminder to our live stream audience, if you have any questions, now is a great time to get them in with Darren Coxon, who's joining us. So Darren, like another question that I

even have is, is AI maybe being viewed in a way that's too serious? And is that something that is keeping it from being integrated into the school systems? Maybe it's just this, you know, mysterious, unknown black box and you hear about all these bad things. Is that a problem as well? Yeah, I think so. Now, I'm taking nothing away from these issues, the issue of, you know, algorithmic bias. It's there. We know it's there. You know, the fact that it can hallucinate, that AI can sometimes get things wrong. It's actually becoming increasingly less so, you know, I think anyone who keeps up with it, a lot of people talk about the narrative around when Jack GBT 3.5 came out and it was hallucinating quite a lot, or the first iteration of Google Bud, which was just

the worst. Just the worst, I mean, it was a dreadful AI, quite frankly. Gemini is actually quite good. I mean, like, what did you do in the background? It's actually quite good. But if you, those are important, don't get me wrong. But if you focus on that first, if the first thing when you're talking to a leadership team or a bunch of school teachers is, oh, you know, you need to watch for this, this, this, this and this. You're just breeding fear. I actually think the first thing I say is just have some fun with it, okay? Play with AI. just personally, go home, open up chat, GPT, just have some fun prompts. I give all of my prompts away.

Anyone who follows me on LinkedIn will know, I just give masses of stuff away. All my crazy ideas, you'll see a bunch of carousels on LinkedIn. You'll think, what? They're all just fun. It's just ways that we can start to enjoy using AI. Because if you can get that hook, then you can start thinking, okay, this is great, but let's think about the other side. So I'm always a bit, I kind of go,

fun before fear, I suppose. Do you have maybe an example of that? Because I think that there's probably a lot of educators out there listening and tuning in maybe on the podcast who are saying, okay, that's a great idea, Darren. How do I do that? Yeah. So look, I had a really good one. Just the other day. I was sitting with my daughter, 17 years old. She's learning. She's reading a level literature at the moment. And I set up a prompt which had her speaking, having a conversation, three-way conversation with Clarissa Dalloway, Mrs. Dalloway from the novel by Virginia Woolf, and Virginia Wolf. So the three of them were in conversation with each other, and my daughter, who's super bright, and actually very, very cynical about AI, she's like, what are you doing? She's like, this is amazing.

I'm unlocking so much here. I've had, you know, enter a scene in a novel at the moment just before something happens and have a walking tour of that scene. So I did one where just before the animals evict Mr Jones from Animal Farm and the student can go into the scene and walk around and meet characters and interview the characters before Farmer Jones is kicked out of Manor Farm that then becomes Animal Farm. So it's these sorts of ways that Gemini works brilliantly for this

and so does Claude, by the way. I tend not to use ChatGBT-GPT very much at all, actually. I'm a big power user of Claude and Google Gemini. Just fine. A simple prompt, you know, maybe a half-to-one-page prompt. It's simple. Actually, it's fairly complicated, but it's quite a long prompt. It can unlock so much. And then the insights that come from that conversation are remarkable, absolutely remarkable. Yeah. And maybe what's, that's a great example, I think, right,

like that your daughter could go in there and learn in a new way. I'm also curious, do you think that maybe not just teachers, but educational systems, are they maybe afraid? Do they maybe look at large language models as a competitor and say, okay, well, hey, we don't want this, this tool out there that's free or low cost to do a better job or how good of a job as us. Is that an issue? It is. And I think that's one of the points I made before about the one of the biggest kind of misnomer's, that's the other one.

It's like, AI will take our job. It won't. It just won't. So you need to understand that AI, it's like it's the garbage in garbage out. AI just sits there waiting to be used. AI doesn't make the first move. at the moment. I mean, it will in future, but right now it doesn't. People need people. Children need adults. They need role models. They need people to inspire them. They need people to encourage them.

AI is not going to do that. AI is great as a support tool. It's like a really good learning support. I would say it's like a really great learning support assistant. But it's not going to be the person that drives that learning forward. So, but having said that, if a student interacts with an AI that's friendly and chatty and personable. And then they go to their teacher who's tired and stressed and irritable and just talks at them, like the guy from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, that kind of teacher, you know, the one from that scene at the beginning Ferris Bueller's Day Off, you've got that sort of teacher. Then do you know what? They are probably going to prefer the AI. So it's up to teachers to up their game, because if they don't, a lot of them are going to

find that actually kids prefer the AI to use. So I think this is a big debate that we have to have. But broadly speaking, no, I don't see AI suddenly replacing teachers overnight. It's just not going to happen. Yeah, you know, on the opposite side, Darren. So, you know, we've talked and I've asked questions about, hey, what are some of the common, you know, feedback that you hear from educators saying, hey, we don't want it because of this. Do you have any instances or any examples of schools that have used this in the right way, right? Like, you know, whether it's, you know, statistics or just, you know, something anecdotal that you've seen, hey, you know, this school district, You know, they banned this generative AI.

Now this is how they're using it. I mean, are we too early to, you know, be able to see things like, like test scores, you know, shift and things like that. But I'm hoping you can just tell us of maybe an example or two where schools or school districts have embraced generative AI and what it means when you do that. Yeah, I mean, I would say not at the district level yet. I think it will happen. I mean, it will happen.

It has to. But I think we're seeing, again, just back to an earlier point, we're seeing individual teachers across the world doing some quite interesting. interesting things with chatbots, where they are creating, you know, a chatbot with a particular persona that might support a group of students with a particular topic. I mean, I myself am producing a bunch of revision guides. They're available. Actually, this week, they're free on Amazon. You can just go and download them for free. I've just sort of released them just to kind of help people with revision. You know, just things like one subject, like the play Macbeth or English language subject,

where you can just have a chatbot trained on the syllabus. So I think I actually think we're going to see that more and more. Individual teachers who take a chatbot, who train that chatbot on the syllabus or the exam papers, and then have that chat about sitting alongside the students when they're studying. But I think in terms of the broad, like, I'm seeing a whole school go all in on AI, I'm just not really seeing that yet. I think it's too early, bizarrely after a year and a half, it's still too early.

Are schools doing a disservice to students by not fully embracing artificial intelligence? I mean, I would say possibly, but it would be unfair of me to say, you know, what the hell are you doing? You know, kind of wake up and smell the coffee type thing because the schools are under huge pressure, just enormous pressure. So I think it's unfair to kind of beat them with a stick and say, you've got to, you know, you've got to wake up. But I do think that head teachers across the world need to start to understand that it won't be long before their governing body will turn to them and say, where's your AI strategy? And if they say, oh, it's just, you know, it's just a flash in the pan. Don't worry about it. That's just the wrong thing to say.

Because it's really not, you know, Jordan, that we, I call this the ZDX spectrum. ZX spectrum is a really super old computer. Apple, released about the same time as the Apple Lisa in the early 80s. we're at the Apple Lisa slash ZDX spectrum stage of AI at the moment. Yeah, we're not at the Apple M3 chip stage. And we're certainly nowhere near the quantum computing stage. When we reach these stages, then we will not recognize where we are now. So if you don't grasp it now, forget it because it's going to run away from you

and you're going to be left behind. So head teachers across the world, if you're listening to this, please, please listen. You need an AI strategy. You really do. You need to start speaking to the right people to get that strategy in place. Because if you don't, the whole world is just going to leave you behind. And I know, Darren, this varies obviously greatly depending on, you know, the country, the state, the city, the district, right? But what are some basic first steps for getting that AI strategy regardless of location laws, etc?

What are some of those first steps that school districts or leaders need to take? Yeah, I think, you know, basic steps are. you need a policy in place, okay? You need a policy which will make it very clearly articulate what you will do when a student hands in a work which has been written by chat DVD because it's happening all of it. So you need that, you need that like plagiarism. You need a policy in place for safeguarding.

You know, what if students are doing deepfakes of their peers? You know, the cyberbullying thing becomes so much more problematic when you can voice clone. You need these things in place. you need the basic building blocks in place. You need then to think about, well, okay, let's take a step back at our whole digital strategy. Let's look at how we use mobile devices. Let's look at our networking.

Let's look at everything in one, one. And don't see AI as a bolt on. It's not. Actually, what AI should do is it should either sit at the center or kind of wrap around your broader digital and teaching and learning strategy. I think if you do that, then actually you're in a good place. If you just see it as being like a Band-Aid, then for kids are bored. Oh, let's bring Chat-G-T into the lesson. It's just a huge mistake because they'll just be bored with Chat-G-T.

This is a really good opportunity, probably the first time in any of our lifetime's opportunity to take a proper step back and say, okay, this thing is not going anywhere. How is this going to impact pedagogy, space, curriculum, examinations, and then take it from there. Adobe just introduced an entirely new way to create, bringing the power and precision of its creative suite into one conversational experience. Meet Firefly AI Assistant, now live in the Adobe Firefly app, the All In One Creative AI Studio. Powered by Adobe's Creative Agent, Firefly AI Assistant lets you start with your vision, just describe what you want, and shape the outcome as it takes form with the Assistant.

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See it today at firefly. Adobe.com. What? You know, because when we talk about the future, Darren, like my, my head always goes to a certain space. Are students prepared? And not just students, but I think society, right? Because at least my take, and maybe that's because I'm in this every single day.

Yeah. I see that, you know, maybe a year. a year and a half ago, there was this emphasis on AI jobs, right? But now I think just every single job is going to, in theory, or in some way, shape, and form be an AI job. Specifically now, are students prepared for what will be required of them, you know, in the first leg of their career? It feels like we're in this middle of this grand experiment, doesn't it? Do you not feel that? It's like we're all in the middle of this kind of grand like Truman Show style experiment. They keep expecting kind of the Wizard of Oz to appear.

None of us know for sure, do we? None of us actually know. All we know is this. Okay, we've kind of got like, if you imagine an X, Y axis, we've kind of got bot level at the moment. We've kind of got this kind of level where this is everything below that level, chat GPT can do better than us or Dali or Mid-Journey. They can just do better than us. We need to teach above that level. So all of our efforts and energies and our attention curriculum need to be teaching above that level. Because if we teach down below here, What are we teaching? We're teaching kids to compete with chat. GPD, forget it. It's already better than they are. Mid Journey is already a better artist than 99.9% of the world. So don't bother. Teach above that line. So I think in terms of the jobs and careers in the future, all of those jobs and careers are going to be sitting above that line. The problem we have, of course, that line's rising all the time. It's just getting higher and higher. So, but we need to be sitting at the top, the human skills, debate, what we're doing, the persuasion, presentation. skills, debating skills, critical thinking skills, you know, that kind of thinking outside the box, all of that kind of very personal stuff. That's what we need to be sitting. Because if all

we're doing is teaching stuff chat, GPT can do, then why, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're redundant in that area now. You know, one thing that I've heard a lot from, you know, not just educators, but parents as well, is that it takes so long, you know, especially here in the US, that, that we won't even say innovation, that any change moves at snail's pace, right? Like to get something in a approved, you have to go before, you know, six, six committees and you have to wait months and years. And sometimes it's just too slow. Is that a problem?

Are our students of today going to maybe some of them get left behind because of just sometimes this, this archaic snail-paced nature of school systems? So I think, look, the sort of the pessimist in me, I mean, I'm a fairly optimistic. person, January, but the pessimist is going to get worse before it gets better. What's going to happen is essentially you've got like the world moving at a thousand miles an hour and the school system moving at five, 10 miles an hour. And it's like a piece of elastic. It's going to get to the point where it just breaks and just snaps. And I think the fault lines sits with the students. So what I can see happening is a lot of students just

voting with their feet, just saying in this school system that you're, what you're offering me is completely worthless. And I can now educate myself. My son, my eight-year-old son is learning about DNA through Pi. I mean, he's eight years old, and he's having, he's having in-depth conversations with Pi about DNA. And he was this morning at breakfast telling me, teaching me eight years old about DNA. And I'm just thinking, that's only going to get more so.

You know, kids are going to be able to just have a conversation with an AI who's really friendly and personable and break stuff down as an encouraging, and it's always on when they want to learn at eight o'clock in the evening, not 8 o'clock in the morning. So I think that's the problem that we're going to find in the next two to three years, we're going to get to an inflection point. We're not there yet, but I think we will get there. And at that point, then we really need to be listening to our kids because I think they're

just going to vote with their feet. I love that saying vote with their feet. And I think that we're going to start, I've said that before. I think we're going to start to see that, you know, especially here in the U.S., you know, university that are still in the year 2020, for banning generative AI. I said be prepared for your enrollment to go down, whether it's not this semester but next,

but I think it'll come. Also, you know, Darren's son is not talking to cake, you know, pie, if you haven't heard. Yeah, right. Yeah. It's a chat on reflection AI. But Darren, you know, I like that you've also brought in, you know,

your family and how your family is even using AI and how they're even getting somewhat of a different or unique education. What do you see the future of education for those institutions that do implement generative AI in the right way? Because you kind of said, hey, we don't want to teach what chat GPT already knows. But what happens as these models get smarter and smarter, you know, how does that change, you know, what the future of education might look like? Yeah, I think, look, the stuff that we need to learn, I think we're just going to be able to learn it faster because it's going to be able to hit the sweet spot. You know, we talk about hyper-personalized learning. There's a danger to that.

It could atomize us. we're on our little learning bubble. So we need to make sure we're not just, you know, we're not just kind of locked into this very personalized world. But I think if we can accelerate some aspects of learning through using artificial intelligence. And as I said,

I'm seeing it myself personally. So I know it's happening. It's happening with my own family, my own children. It's benefiting from it. I think we're going to have more time to do things that add value to ourselves as human beings. So, you know, music,

I want to see everyone learning a musical instrument. I want to see everyone doing mindfulness and, you know, meditation. I want to see, I'd love to see every student doing some martial arts. So those sorts of spending time in nature. I love it when my kids climb trees. So that, I want us to focus on the human skills.

And I think if we can do that, I think we could actually enter a very, very, a really very beautiful period in human history. If we get this right. And now is when we have to get it right. This is our opportunity. This is why I do what I do. So, Darren, we've talked a lot.

in today's conversation. But to summarize our talk here as we wrap up, because we've talked about the importance of getting your leadership aligned, the importance of making AI a little more fun and not as serious. And we've talked about some of the ethical issues, right? Deepfakes and what that means when you combine that with cyberbullying. But maybe what is your one importance or maybe most important takeaway, which I know is hard, but in terms of what schools need to do now to prepare for the future?

just start to use it. Really low stakes, okay? Start to use it, you know, take it into a lesson with maybe some younger students than not exam students, you know, maybe your 13, 14 year olds, maybe before they start their main exams in a very low stakes way and just start to have collective fun with it and teachers enter the room as students with your students. You'll learn about it together. See it as a way in which you can connect with your students to learn about something new. Don't think you've got to be the one with all of the answers, because quite frankly, none of us do. That's a great parting piece of advice that no one has the answers.

So we should be finding it out together and at least using the technology that we all have available that can really change and reshape the future of education. Darren, thank you so much for joining the Everyday AI show. We really appreciate your insights. Thank you. And hey, as a reminder, everyone, Darren mentioned a lot of different things. You know, he said just release some, some free resources. We'll probably be putting those in the newsletter.

But if you miss something or if you were busy, maybe walking your dog or something else and there's something you missed, we're going to recap it all in the newsletter. So make sure to go to your everyday AI.com. Sign it for that free daily newsletter. Thank you for joining us today. We hope to see back tomorrow and every day for more everyday AI. Thanks, y'all. Meet Firefly AI assistant.

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