Everyday AI Podcast – An AI and ChatGPT Podcast - EP 515: Job Security Is Dead in the Age of AI. What You Should Do Instead.
Episode Date: April 30, 2025AI didn’t just rewrite the rules—it burned the old playbook.The idea of long-term "job security"? Gone.But here's the twist:This isn’t a threat. It’s a wake-up call.Because the ...people who adapt aren’t just surviving—they’re winning.The rest? Still playing by rules that no longer exist.Let’s talk about what to do next.Newsletter: Sign up for our free daily newsletterMore on this Episode: Episode PageJoin the discussion: Thoughts on this? Join the convo.Upcoming Episodes: Check out the upcoming Everyday AI Livestream lineupWebsite: YourEverydayAI.comEmail The Show: info@youreverydayai.comConnect with Jordan on LinkedInTopics Covered in This Episode:AI's Impact on Job SecurityFuture of Full-Time EmploymentClarity AI CEO's Personal ExperiencesCoping with AI Layoff AnxietyShopify's AI Workforce StrategyUpskilling to Future-Proof CareersPersonal Branding & Networking ImportanceEmergency Plans for AI LayoffsTimestamps:00:00 "Job Security's End in AI Era"03:59 Navigating AI Layoff Anxiety08:00 Future-Proofing Company Leadership11:34 "Why Companies Struggle with Training"14:35 "AI Predictions Impacting Job Security"20:17 "Financial Preparedness & Career Resilience"22:30 "Future-Ready Skills for Developers"24:53 Work Trends and Future Job SecurityKeywords:Job security in the age of AI, Future of work, Upskill, Reskill, Full-time employment, AI tools, Clarity AI, AI layoffs, Layoff anxiety, Personal branding, Networking, Gig economy, Upwork, Video editing, Debugging generated code, AI systems, Senior positions, Entry-level jobs, Skill set changes, Emergency plan, Financial stability, AI prototyping, Data solutions, Freelance, Income diversification, Automation, Digital twins, Roadmap to careers, AI influencer, Modern careers, AI-driven marketplaces, Team restructuring.Send Everyday AI and Jordan a text message. (We can't reply back unless you leave contact info) Start Here ▶️Not sure where to start when it comes to AI? Start with our Start Here Series. You can listen to the first drop -- Episode 691 -- or get free access to our Inner Cricle community and all episodes: StartHereSeries.com Also, here's a link to the entire series on a Spotify playlist.
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Your average company or your average full-time employment is probably going to look a heck of a lot different in a couple of years versus what it looks like today.
And as you can probably guess, because you're listening to the everyday AI podcast, it's because of AI, right?
And today we're going to be talking about why job security might be.
dead in the age of AI and what you should be doing instead. I know that so many people out there
are probably thinking about this. What does my career look like in the near future? What does my,
what should my skill set? You know, how should I be shaping or changing or improving on my
skill set? And yeah, what the heck is we're going to look like, right? And although we probably
won't have definitive answers, we have no crystal ball. But I even feel personally confident
and saying, yeah, the whole job security thing, not really like it used to be, right,
where you could park yourself in a cubicle for 20 to 30 years and ride it out.
It's not like that.
Luckily, you don't have to hear me rant about it all day.
We have a great guest.
So I'm excited for today's show.
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All right. So enough chit-chat. This is actually a pre-recorded one that we're debuting live.
So if you're looking for the daily AI news, that's going to be in the newsletter.
But I'm excited for today's guests. So please help me welcome to the show as we bring here on the live stream here.
Dr. Joan Palmoner, but Jorak. Joan, thank you so much for joining the everyday AI show.
So I need to be here. Hey, Jordan.
All right. And so tell us a little bit. What is Clarity AI? So you're the CEO of Clarity
AI and you also have a book. Tell us a little bit about your background in AI. Absolutely. Well, I've been a
data and AI builder for the last decade now. And as the CEO of Clarity AI, which is the group I founded,
we build custom AI and data solutions for scaling SMB, agriculture, manufacturing. I get to do
tons of cool projects, but working on the back ends of things and scaling with companies to build
them AI automations and data lakes and digital twins and fun things like that. And I have a
a new book out, it's my first book actually, Your AI Roadmap, which is more of a B2C book,
talking about, or people in my DMs are constantly like, how did you do it? Like what's going on
there? And so talking about modern careers and money stuff, as I'm an AI influencer,
helping people just a few steps behind me, things I wish I'd known two years ago that could have
made my life so much, much easier. So your AI roadmap is both my book and my podcast,
not as cool as this podcast, but out there as well.
So, you know, speaking of your stories, so you even have some personal experience in today's, you know,
episode of job security in AI.
Tell everyone a little bit of what that was like for you, you know, going through some kind of
AI layoffs.
Oh, yeah.
Well, here in Seattle, it's more common.
But just, you know, as the listener, this might be shocking, I've been in not one but two large-scale
layoffs. And the first time I took it so personally, but then you zoom out a little bit and you're like
30% of the company let go in a day. Is that really personal? Like, you know, it experienced it as painful.
And Harvard Business Review says that 50% of U.S. adults are experiencing layoff anxiety, which I don't
know if people are listening might feel that anxiety, but here in Seattle, that could be 80%. Like the daily
layoff announcements from meta and Starbucks and Intel. Anyway, it's a lot. So a lot of the things I talk about with
general audience people is like how do we take care of ourselves and our careers and our money like
what kind of agency to take actions just being like being an anxious place it's not going to do you much
so what actions can we take yeah and it's you know it's um serendipitous maybe right like this is all
like so many things are happening at the same time probably in a bad way right uh you know the u.s
economy you know i know i know we have uh you know people listening from all over the world but the
U.S. economy has been in, you know, kind of some turmoil over the last couple of months.
You know, we've had these big AI layoffs that happened, you know, in mass in 2023,
2024. And then at the same time, the AI systems, you know, a lot of them coming out of, you know,
your backyard there in Seattle, on the West Coast in Silicon Valley, they're becoming more and more
capable and agentic by default, right? So, you know, could you kind of give everyone else a thumbprint
of where we're at with that AI anxiety, like, why is it 50%? Why are so many people
scared of what's happening? I think a lot of people who have just day jobs, like, that is
their health insurance. That is, like, how they pay their mortgage. And to know that, I mean,
the Shopify CEO, that, I don't know whether it was leaked or otherwise, but like, you have to
justify headcount. Like, why are we not using AI versus a human? And actually, in my work,
we benchmark against mechanical turk sexually you say do we want to build it is it better to build an
AI or to do you have a human do it and like look at those costs breakdown that's something I've been
doing for several years now but I think people living in that fear living in that like layoff anxiety is like
I don't feel stable anymore should I feel scared will we have layoffs I don't know that anyone even
Sam Altman even Sam Altman can get ousted in a day from his own company right like so I don't think
anybody is safe and we're not used to a society like that. We're used to, as you mentioned,
that cubicle 20, 30 years, put your butt in the seat, work on that computer, I'm good to go,
kind of narrative. And that is absolutely not the case anymore into this new future of work.
And so I think people are scared, but there's just, there's so much volatility. This is April
2025, right? So that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. But how, what we do next is kind of, again,
my don't don't be too scared take action my mantra yeah and i i do obviously want to spend a good
majority of the time talking about what we do next but you know i'm glad you brought up that shopify
example so yeah this was about two weeks ago i think it was initially a leak but then uh you know
he actually just put this out his full kind of memo to his employees on twitter where essentially
he said you know a i's a fundamental expectation for employees now and before uh we're
requesting resources, whether it's hiring more people or just budget, they first had to justify
why AI couldn't do it better. Right. Part of me, when I saw that, part of me was like, okay,
duh, but then part of me was like, okay, that's actually very profound for what it means for
growing businesses, right? How should business leaders be processing when they see a very visible
company like that put out a memo? Should business leaders, you know,
CEOs, small business owners, should they be putting that same kind of memo out or at least
having that way of thinking? I would hope so. I think it's really helpful. And my gut reaction
was like, wow, that's hardcore. And then I was like, honestly, if you want to be a company that's
around in five, 10 years, these are the questions I recommend you ask. Even like, as you mentioned,
leadership, right? Like as a management, are we future-proofing ourselves as a team to think about how
we are helpful to the overall company budget.
I think this is, it really makes sense for future-proofed companies.
And I certainly speak to them daily about like, how are you going to make it in the next
few decades?
What is your value ad?
What is your moat that makes you uniquely helpful as a human using AI?
Like, it's an additive.
Anyway, I think that goes back to the fear mongering, but ask the question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, for so many adults, and I'm sure it's, you know, worldwide, not just here
in the U.S., but going back to that sad.
at where 50% here are, you know, kind of experiencing this layoff anxiety.
You know, I know a lot of people just kind of twiddle their thumbs and, you know, see all the new,
you know, capabilities that AI systems have and hope it doesn't hit home, right?
What should people be doing?
Well, in a company, if you want to stay at your company, I recommend you upskill and whatever
tools are in your sector.
So if you're in the finance sector, what cool tools are there available for you to up
skill in. Raise your hand, those work groups that are prototyping. You know, it's wild to me,
like 92% of the Fortune 500 are already prototyping with Open AIs tools. Whether they're successful
or not remains to be seen. But like you prototyping yourself as an individual within your company,
like work to future proof yourself. Get excited. Try to be curious. And I would say also,
document the ROI. Is there an ROI? Will compute cost be so high that actually doesn't have an
or why. Like, I think just being thoughtful about that budget piece or the fiscals, watching those
fiscals is something I'd recommend also. So I'm guessing most people, you know, listening to the show
have a rather proactive approach to AI, you know, probably looking at it with a little bit more
optimism than pessimism, or at least hopefully, right, you would assume people listening. But maybe
for if they're directing teams that maybe don't have,
as positive of a view as AI, right? And this is something, you know, when we consult with
companies or, you know, speak at companies, this is something we hear all the time is, you know,
kind of like what you were saying there. Employees don't always want to be using in building
these AI solutions because it's kind of like, whoa, I'm replacing myself, right? Replacing my
skill set. How should companies and employees be meeting that head on because it's an extremely
sticky situation.
Oh, gosh.
I've seen the carrot.
I've seen the stick on this one.
I mean, on a basic level,
I recommend just like upskilling trainings,
like the Samsung data breach where people put source code
into an LLM externally.
Did they have a training to say, like,
just because it doesn't look like an email,
like how are you helping your internal employees,
even the one that's dragging their feet,
who doesn't want to learn,
make them like that upskilling in data and AI literacy
that everyone needs. It's kind of like putting a computer in the workplace. Like everyone needs to
start working on the computer. Same here. Everyone needs to build that acumen, that skill set.
So that's it. You're asking me about a human psychology question. I don't know that I'm qualified
to answer, but that's how I'd start. So, you know, even when it comes to training, it seems
black and white, right, at least to me. But stuff I hear from companies, even, you know,
some of the largest companies in the world, I scratch my head because I'm like, okay, training
shouldn't be that hard. But it seems for whatever reason to be this, this elusive thing that
companies just can't nail down. Right. We've been saying train your employees, train your
employees, upskill, reskill, you know, skill share, cross skill, right? Like skill anything, but it's not
happening. Why do you think that, you know, here we are, you know, two and a half years into
chat GPT, five plus years into generative AI, yet skilling in AI literacy is this like never
ending problem for companies. Oh, gosh, if I could answer that question. I mean, I've talked to family
members who are like, is this just like NFTs? Can I just wait for this to go away? And I'm like,
unfortunately, not this one. And I think that also comes from leadership that is like,
this scares me or I have an aunt. I'd rather retire than
upskill was a phrase used at a family party. So, you know, I really think it's between the ears.
But you're right. It's not rocket science. These trainings, we're not, you know, one to 10.
Can we just start with the fundamentals, the basics? I don't expect everyone to be an R&D AI engineer
tomorrow. It's not reasonable nor fiscally responsible, but like the basic steps.
As people listening to this, hopefully you're doing that upskilling for yourself,
regardless of what company you work at today or tomorrow.
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You know, speaking of companies of tomorrow,
I kind of started with a little monologue there on, you know,
it's going to look a little different.
What do you see full-time employment?
Is it changing?
Are we so going to have traditional full-time jobs in five to ten years?
the majority of, you know, U.S. adults, is that how it's going to work? How might this shake out?
I mean, here in Seattle, investors love seeing the small teams that bring in huge amount of revenue.
That's a very software mind. I think that SASSS life. I don't see full-time, long-term employment as the thing anymore.
I see more of a project-based, freelance. Like, the more we can gigify, you know, people don't want to pay for headcount.
on overhead and health insurance if they don't have to on the leadership.
It's a very sad, like corporate, very capitalistic idea.
But I think that diversifying our income streams, not being so reliant just on one source
of income, that one FTE.
I think that's a dangerous prospect.
And more and more people see that.
People like me who've been laid off, wait a minute, I can build different income streams.
I actually, 22 income streams.
I list them in my book.
But that diversification builds more stability for anything.
So more and more insecurity on that job front.
And yeah, it's a great point.
It's actually, you know, if you haven't listened, I think that was episode 446 on our 2025 AI
predictions and roadmap series that we talked about that one in depth.
So if kind of the gig economy for the everyday average American worker, if you're like, wait,
what's that mean?
Make sure to go check that out.
But, you know, even as it comes to skills, people should be building, right?
So let's say it's fair to say 50% sure.
I would say even the majority of people listening to this show probably have some
sort of anxiety when it comes to their job security.
What should they actually be doing?
Right?
Because, yeah, we can talk about, you know, upskilling, reskilling all day.
What should they be learning?
What should they be spending their time on?
Maybe while they still have a full-time job.
Right? What are those skill sets they should be sharpening?
Yeah. Well, this is, I think, going to be a little weird one. People might not assume this, but looking into the data, having lived it, your personal brand and your networking.
When I looked at the, this has worked for me, but also the research, LinkedIn after first layoffs, big layoffs in 2020 for COVID layoffs, people landed there, 70% of people landed in their next job based on an introduction.
70%. It wasn't spamming your CV to 400 boxes. It was who you know. Oh, Tim knows this thing. Lisa knows this thing. Like 70%. It's a human-based game. I could talk. There's more data to that point if you want to dive into that. But the point being, it's who you know. So going to that networking event in your industry. Or if you want to upskill, pivot, you're like, hey, I really want to triple down an A&Farma. Great. Go to those events, talk to people, follow up. You know, your
LinkedIn and like who you are on these platforms. So like tripling down on personal branding and that
networking flywheel will future proof you, I believe in that kind of career future prove your
career idea. Yeah. I think that's just good call out for all humans in general, right? I think I'm
probably on the extreme end of, you know, talking to LLMs way more than I talk to humans. And, you know,
I always have to remind myself to go outside and in touch grass, right?
But it almost seems counterintuitive, right?
But it's smart, right?
We have all these, you know, smart AIs we can talk to all day and accomplish so much.
And I love your example.
You know, people are using all these, you know, AI tools to apply for 80,000 jobs in 10 minutes.
It's like, no, go shake some hands, right?
You know, can you talk to that point a little bit more?
Is that kind of one of those things where, hey, when everyone else is zigging, maybe you should zag.
Hmm. Well, I think people love like the skills, like hiding behind the things and just doing the skills, but the person who's actually going to get you the job is a human, most likely, most likely. And so, I mean, an example I'll give, but like the flywheel, if you build up this personal brand, you build up your skill set, I thought an amazing message recently from someone I met for 30 minutes years ago who remembered me and DM'd me and was like, I found you again on LinkedIn. There's this huge opportunity. I want to connect you with this person. It's a win-win.
I see you still do this work.
Huge dollar sign opportunity in my DMs
just from having a personal brand up,
continuing to talk about the stuff I do,
like that network from years ago.
Or like, anyway, it paid dividends.
Very cool project.
But like the ability for you to know the human,
I wouldn't have known that project existed,
let alone applied for it.
Right?
And the things that aren't ever listed on job postings.
So you can,
if you'd like to supplement and still spam your CV,
but it's really, how are you going to be in the top starred CVs, the recommended list?
That's getting a referral from someone who works at that company that they vouch for you and they say, yeah, Jordan's amazing.
You've got to talk to him.
Right.
I mean, I'll even like letter yesterday, my DMs, a CEO is hiring for very nice job, pays $600 to $800,000.
Only were Mentros is how people interview for that job.
So she was like, I need someone in this and this with this category.
And I was like, I know three people.
I'll send them your way.
So it's a very relationship.
Isn't it weird though?
We work in AI.
And I'm like tripling down on recommending human stuff.
But it's true.
I think it's smart, right.
It's when, you know, the freeway's congested, but, you know, no one's on the train.
You know, maybe it's like take train, right?
You know, to stand out, which sounds counterintuitive, right?
Everything that people did in the, you know, 60s, 70s, you know, until the internet started to take over.
It's like, yeah, go meet people, shake hands.
It's about who you know and what you know sometimes.
You know, one other thing I wanted to ask you about a little bit is, you know, having like an emergency plan, right?
Like a layoff plan.
What does that mean?
And why should, you know, maybe professionals that are very happily employed right now and see things going, you know, swimmingly, why do they need to be prepared for, you know, that AI layoff?
Yeah.
Well, don't we always think it's never going to be us?
the side swipe the jab most americans don't have an emergency fund um emergency fund is traditionally
three to six months of living expenses off and a like a high yield savings account boring on the
side stable monies most people don't have that most people even people who are making wild amounts
of money sadly are living paycheck to paycheck sometimes it blows my mind and then i've talked to my
friends i'm like anyway i talk my book about someone my friend who makes 1.3 million a year
and she does not have financial stability it like blows my mind
mind. Anyway, I didn't ask her further part personal questions, but I recommend to anybody to sleep
well at night. Even if you think you're like trajectory, I'm going to get the next promotion, bonus,
I see it all for myself, making sure, especially in this volatile climate, you may not have a choice.
Like, as I mentioned, 30% of the company might get let go on a day. If things change for you
and your company, you may not have the opportunity. So taking care of that financial house,
building your acumen in financial literacy, boring, basic stuff that'll help you build wealth.
and then that personal branding and that networking those are like the three things if you're like figuring out your plan
if you're like oh or maybe the person listening is like actually i am where there's a layoff rumored like it could be me
emergency fund personal brand network are the three things i'd spend all my time making sure i had so um and just
expansion i think people get so nervous and scared and they're like oh i can i can you know trim my budget
I'm like, why do you just sell something and make more, do you know what I mean? Like making that first
extra dollar, I think it's like one of the most exciting things. You're like, wait a minute,
I could make a lot more. Like the upside is a huge potential up. So I think hopefully the person
listening is not like, oh, she's telling me to like be scared and like set aside this money. I'm saying
like have that robust stability and make more. Yeah. I think it's extremely important. It's
something I've never been shy about this, right? We're 500, you know, 10 plus episodes.
I started this thing out, day one, episode one, saying AI is going to take more jobs than it creates.
And, you know, the future of work, it is your college educated people, like probably so many of us listening.
You're going to have multiple side hustles.
You're going to have multiple companies, multiple careers.
That's the reality, right?
If you follow the math, follow the studies.
There's no other way it shakes out, I think.
But, you know, let's still stay inside the friendly,
confines of, you know, the U.S. cubicles. Let's talk about teams. How might teams change, right? I'm not
going to, you know, hold you to it in a year, right? But how might those even positions or
types of jobs change because of AI? Yeah. Well, I think, as you mentioned, I agree with you
completely the size of teams and just how many jobs are left in a three to five year period.
Way smaller team size, especially development. I mean, software engineering,
jobs are already disappearing, but also like what skill sets you need in those jobs. Like I've interviewed
some developers who didn't know yet how to debug generated code. Debuging generative code is
different from debugging someone else's human code. Maybe that should be obvious, but it was not for
people I was interviewing. So having your skill set match what's going on in the future using these
tools. So shape of, and we need fewer entry level people usually. So I think there's a bifurcation of
super senior a CTO who will always review things before it gets deployed or check bugs.
Anyway, I have a fantastic CTO.
She's not worried about her job.
But more that mid-level, I think, is being separated out of do we need these mid-level folks?
Whereas I think some grunt workers on that intro entry level are still needed in some points,
but just like size of teams and skill sets would be shifting.
What are teams that might be growing, right? So you kind of talked about software development, right? Those jobs, you know, maybe might not look or the size or the quantity. And yeah, we've already seen since I think 2022, just the amount of new software development roles decreasing at a rapid rate year over year. But yeah, what are maybe some of those, you know, roles or team sizes that could be increasing? Is that something that could happen?
Yeah, I don't, I mean, a speculation I love that you update it as well.
One of the cool studies I saw was from Upwork, you know, that freelancing platform that they noticed that after ChatGBT
BT came out, writing jobs, copyrighting kind of traditional marketing jobs were disappearing off
the platform or decreasing by 30 to 40%.
Video editing jobs were spiking almost 40%.
That those were jobs that were needed.
I think a lot of short form video is more and more popular on LinkedIn, YouTube shorts, etc.
a human to do quality video editing is frequently still needed.
So if anyone's looking for a lucrative side hustle, at least for the next three years,
quality video editing is a skill set companies and teams pay for.
Yeah.
It's funny.
It's something, you know, I used to do a lot of that like 15 years ago and I'm like, man,
like I've done my time in that.
I'll let someone more ambitious take that one on.
So we've covered a lot in today's, you know, conversation from, you know,
even your own personal story with the AI layoffs, how job security is changing.
And even how the future of full-time employment might not be really what we've, you know,
come to, you know, realize over the last few decades.
But as we wrap up, what's the one most important piece of actionable advice that you have for our listeners?
Oh gosh. Well, can it be go get the book? No. My book would be really helpful if you're thinking about these topics. It's step-by-step walks through. The number one thing though I'd recommend, and I've seen this in my friends who get laid off who don't take care of themselves, the mental and physical health being crucial during this time. No one wants to hire you if you're not taking care of yourself. If you're showing up to that network event looking bedraggled, it's just less compelling. Okay, so making sure to keep working out, eating your vegetables,
taking care of your mind if you need to go to therapy, etc.
Like those nuts and bolts of like basic human take care of yourself.
So crucial today more than any other day if you're especially experiencing that anxiety.
So I go to therapy, take care of yourself.
But that would be my super number one.
Yeah.
Love that.
You know, I've asked a lot of people.
You know, you never get someone that says like take care of your mental health,
eat your fruits and vegetables, go exercise.
Yeah.
Like do the human things.
Go touch grass.
Shake hands.
Eat your veggies.
Love to hear it. Well, Joe, thank you so much for sharing your time and insights on the Everyday AI show.
We really appreciate it. Thanks, Jordan. It's pleasure to be here. All right. We covered a lot,
y'all. If you missed anything, maybe you're on the treadmill walking your dog and you're like,
oh, that was interesting. It's going to be in our newsletter. Don't worry. So if you haven't already,
please go to your EverydayAI.com. There, you can go sign up for the free daily newsletter.
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If you do have that anxiety about AI, you can go learn from the world's leading experts.
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We hope to see you tomorrow and every day for more, everyday AI.
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Just describe what you want to create in your own words and the assistant handles the rest,
orchestrating multi-step workflows across Adobe Creative Cloud apps.
including Photoshop, Premiere Express, and more in one conversational interface.
You direct the outcome while the assistant accelerates execution.
Stand control with the ability to step in and refine at any time.
See it today at firefly.adobie.com.
And that's a wrap for today's edition of Everyday AI.
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