Everyday AI Podcast – An AI and ChatGPT Podcast - EP 88: Back To School: The Students vs. Teachers and ChatGPT Dilemma

Episode Date: August 25, 2023

Here in the US students are heading back to school. But there's one problem that hasn't been solved yet. Using AI and ChatGPT in the classroom. Some schools have started to embrace it while others still reject it. What should schools do about it?Newsletter: Sign up for our free daily newsletterMore on this: Episode PageJoin the discussion: Ask Jordan questions about ChatGPT and educationRelated Episodes:Ep 35: How Students Can Use AI to Solve Everyday Problems​Ep 55: How to properly leverage AI in the classroom​Ep 74: Should Schools Ban ChatGPT?Upcoming Episodes: Check out the upcoming Everyday AI Livestream lineupWebsite: YourEverydayAI.comEmail The Show: [e-mail] with Jordan on LinkedInTimestamps:[00:01:15] Daily AI news[00:06:50] Jordan's hot take about AI in education[00:09:45] Recent headlines about AI in schools[00:16:07] Will AI make students dumb?[00:20:00] Why parents should care about students learning AI[00:23:35] Proposed solutions to "combat" AI and cheating[00:26:00] How AI affects skill sets Topics Covered in This Episode:- AI News Stories- Meta (Facebook's parent company) launches Code Llama, a new AI code tool- Alibaba updates its AI chatbots to understand images and have more complex conversations- Big-name companies, including Nvidia, Amazon, Google, Intel, AMD, IBM, and Salesforce, invest in the open-source platform Hugging Face- Personal Opinion- Jordan shares his views on AI in schools- College students using AI to write papers- Current AI detectors are not accurateKeywords: AI content, Meta, Facebook, Code Llama, AI code tool, Alibaba, AI chatbots, images, complex conversations, Nvidia, Amazon, Google, Intel, AMD, IBM, Salesforce, open source platform, Hugging Face, AI in schools, college students, AI detectors, accuracy.Send Everyday AI and Jordan a text message. (We can't reply back unless you leave contact info) Start Here ▶️Not sure where to start when it comes to AI? Start with our Start Here Series. You can listen to the first drop -- Episode 691 -- or get free access to our Inner Cricle community and all episodes: StartHereSeries.com Also, here's a link to the entire series on a Spotify playlist. 

This is the Everyday AI Show, the Everyday Podcast where we simplify AI and bring its power to your fingertips. Listen daily for practical advice to boost your career, business, and everyday life. Meet Firefly AI Assistant, now live and Adobe Firefly, the All In One Creative AI Studio. Just describe what you want to create and the assistant handles the rest, orchestrating multi-step workflows across Photoshop, Premiere Express, and more in one conversational interface. You direct the outcome. The assistant accelerates execution. Here in the U.S., we have an AI problem when it comes to schools and universities.

Let's talk about it. Let's talk about that together on everyday AI. This is your daily live stream podcast and free daily newsletter helping everyday people not just keep up with what's going on with AI. but how we can keep up and get ahead. Does that sound good? That's what we're here for. Like I said, my name's Jordan. This is Everyday AI.

We're going to be talking about what I think is a very important subject. And I'm coming with hot takes today, y'all. You know, one of our frequent listeners always says that, you know, Dr. Ross Fogg Geddes says he comes here for the hot tea. But it's going to be very hot today. So before we get into that, Let's do what we always do. Let's go over.

First, what's going on in AI news so we can all keep up with it? So first, meta, Facebook parent company, they've launched their code Lama. Covered this in the newsletter yesterday, but didn't get a chance to talk about it. So this is their new AI code tool. So it's interesting. You know, meta has really low key been making big noise. with all of the different models that they're releasing. But so the new CodeLama, there's plenty of other AI coding tools out there

that have really been used very widely over the last, you know, almost a year. So GitHub has co-pilot. OpenAI, obviously has their code interpreter. AWS, Amazon Web Services, has Code Whisper. Google will be releasing Alpha code here pretty soon. So what is the future of coding? I don't know. We're going to talk about that more, but, you know, meta, big, big news today with

Codlama. Next, some new updates to Alibaba's AI chatpots. They aren't just for shopping. All right. So the shopping giant kind of a rival to Amazon in some ways. So Alibaba just updated their AI chatbots so it can understand images and have more complex conversations. So what do you think that means?

or a shopping assistant, an AI shopping assistant, that you can give it images and have in-depth conversations. Well, I think it's going to mean they're going to sell more products, if nothing else. All right, last piece of news before we get into this debate on AI in schools. So some big names, some of the biggest names in the world, are investing in an open source platform, probably very few of our audience have heard about.

So hugging face. Hugging Face is essentially, it's a large, probably the largest open source community where people can go and build, train and really just deploy different models based on open source technology, open source AI technology. But check this lineup of companies that just invested in this platform hugging face. Ready? Nvidia, Amazon, Google, Intel, AMD, IBM, Salesforce, right? To the tune of $235 million. Pretty nice little round there for Hugging Face. Here's a, hey, Tot Take Friday, apparently.

Who's not on that list, right? Meta, Facebook, right? I think meta has been the leader, I'd say, in getting out open source tools. Big difference between open source and everyone else, right? Open source is you can essentially go build on it, fork it, you know, do whatever you want with the code, essentially. But meta is really the biggest name out there that's really investing in open source. So this just shows me all of these other companies that are not creating open source but have their own, you know, Google, Amazon. They all have their own kind of models, large language models, but they're putting money into Hugging Face.

So interesting to see. All right. Thank you for all those joining us live. Like I said, already shouted him out. But Dr. Rossify, we have plenty of hot tea for you this morning. Monica is saying good morning to the daily everyday AI crew. That's right. We have a good group joining us every day.

We love to learn together. You know what? If you're listening on the podcast, first of all, thank you. But every day in the show notes, check it out. We leave a ton of other resources that you can just click after or during the show. But we always leave a link back to a threat on LinkedIn. So you can come in here and you can comment. I'll answer your comments.

A lot of times I'm shouting other people out. If you hear something you agree with or don't agree with, you can always come and, you know, comment. Sound off. This is the place for it. A lot of other people joining us. Thank you. Woozy Rogers. Good morning.

Happy Friday. Michael, thank you for joining us. Good morning. Dr. Muthana, happy Friday. Yeah, hugging face. Weird name, right? Henry, best regards from Zurich. Thank you.

All right. Samuel, that's great. Yeah. But let's talk. Let's talk, y'all. AI in schools. There's a lot going on. I'm going to share.

I'm going to share first. I'm going to share a couple recent headlines. All right. Before we get into this, because I want you to know, why are we talking about this now? And what are other people saying before I give you my hot takes? But I want to know yours, right?

If you're joining us live right now, like Cecilia, getting her morning cup of AI from Chicago or Jackie, joining us. Happy Friday. Oh, Jackie, I'm going to be interested in your thoughts, you know, working in education and universities. But let me know right now. If you're joining us live, leave me a comment. What do you think? Is AI going to destroy the education system?

Is it going to help it? Is it going to rescue it? Is it going to change education completely? I want to know your thoughts. I want to know your takes. All right. So I'm actually, you know what I'm going to do? I'm actually going to start first with my hot takes.

Then I'm going to show you a couple of news stories and we're going to go over it. Here's my hot take. almost every student, especially in college, is using chat GPT to write their papers. Fact, right? There's studies that say otherwise, but college kids, if you ask a college kid, hey, are you cheating? They're going to say no, they are. Trust me, almost every single student is using chat GPT. Not just college.

I'm sure a lot of high schoolers are as well. I know for a fact they are. But almost every single college student is. They're not telling their teachers, their professors, but they are, period. That's fact one. Fact two.

AI detectors. This is a thing, right? A lot of companies came out and they said, hey, you know, in targeting education systems, they said, you know, copy,

upload your, you know, your student's paper or writing and we'll be able to detect if this was written by AI. Those don't work. Those don't work. You know, we've shared that on the story or on the everyday AI show before,

something like a 22% accuracy, which means it's worse than flipping a coin. It's just bad, right? There's a reason. Open AI originally, so the parent company of ChatGPT, they originally had an AI detector and they shut it down because they were like, yeah, it doesn't work. It's funny.

You know, these, I saw these things pop up. a year ago and I laugh and I'm like, nope, that's not how large language models work. You know, and we even took, we, our team took out every single one that was publicly available, free tools, paid tools. We busted them all within minutes, right? Those don't work. That's fact. What was that? Fact two. Fact three, you can't ask chat GPT what was generated by chat You actually had professors doing that in failing students because they said, hey, I took your your paper. I uploaded all of the classes papers into chat chachypti and chat chachypt told me which ones

were generated by chat ch pt. That's not how it works. It's not how a large language model works. All right. So let me recap some of my hot takes. All students are using chat chvety to write their papers. these AI content detectors are not accurate at all and should not be used by any teachers or public institutions ever.

And number three, chat chp-t or, you know, the large language models, Google bar, whatever, they can't tell you if something was used for chat chbtee. They can't, that's not how it works. All right. So those are some of my hot takes. It's so hot that I need to take a sip of coffee. Adobe just introduced an entirely new way to create, bringing the power and precision of its creative suite into one conversational experience. Meet Firefly AI Assistant, now live in the Adobe Firefly app, the all-in-one creative AI studio.

Powered by Adobe's creative agent, Firefly AI Assistant lets you start with your vision, just describe what you want, and shape the outcome as it takes form with the assistant. The assistant orchestrates multi-step workflows drawing on 60-plus pro-grade tools across Adobe Creative Cloud apps, including Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, Lightroom Express, and more to help bring your ideas to life. You can also get started with creative skills, a growing library of pre-built workflows for common creative tasks, like batch editing photos, creating mood boards, portrait retouching, and creating social variations. Every step the assistant takes is visible, so you can refine, redirect or take over at any time. You stay in the driver's seat as the creative director.

Adobe Firefly AI assistant now in public beta. See it today at firefly.adopi.com. Now let's talk about the discussion around this and why we're talking about it now. Well, you probably know why we're talking about it now. It's back to school time, right? You know, students either started back this week or they're starting back Monday. but the overwhelming majority of college students are going back to school. All right.

So let's take a look at what it's really been dominating the headlines. So let's let's take a look. I'm going to share my screen here. I'm going to show a couple recent news articles. Don't worry if you're listening on the podcast. I'm going to do my best to highlight what they're talking about. So pretty big one. We shared about this in the newsletter.

But from the New York Times saying, And despite cheating fears, schools repeal chat GPT plans. So saying some districts that once raced to block AI chatbots are now trying to embrace them. All right. So pretty interesting story from the New York Times. Again, there was such a misunderstanding of AI when it first came out that schools, you know, again, you had these companies saying, hey, ban chat GPT and, Here, buy our software, buy our enterprise software. You know, they were, you know, really smoozing the administrators, you know, to get them to

buy this very expensive software because they said, this will save your school system, right? So initially, universities, high schools, everyone banned chat GPT or large language models. And they said, not a chance, right? And then finally, smart schools started to realize after a couple semesters, oh, that doesn't work. You know, it's giving us false positives, false negatives. This, this technology is just doesn't work. So now schools this summer, this week, this month are being like, oh, uh-oh, we've got to figure this out. You know, banning banning chat GPT and other AI models is like telling a student they can't read an encyclopedia or it's like telling a student they can't

use the internet. That is the future. of getting information is AI chat. Let's actually go there too. Google, right? Google is getting rid of old traditional Google search. And they're rolling out the search generative experience. I think SGE is the name. So you're going to search the internet like a chat bot, right?

Same thing, Microsoft Bing. They are rolling out AI generated search. So the future of getting all information is generative AI. It is AI powered search. Okay. So if you try to ban these in schools, you are literally taking away probably one of the most important and highly sought after skill sets that students need coming out of school to get a job, right?

Everyone wants prompt engineers and they want, you know, they want proficiency in gen AI tools. Okay, schools, you want to ban Gen AI tools. good luck having your students get jobs. They won't. All schools going, y'all, I'm going off the rails here because I'm passionate about it. All schools should be teaching, literally teaching. I've developed a 12-week course, holler at me, I'll send you details. Schools should be teaching this top to bottom.

Intro to Gen AI, right? It should be a required course at every single university, like you have intro to college or whatever. Those courses are that teach you how to, I don't know, what do those courses teach you, how to eat ramen and stay awake in class? I don't know. There should be a literal course that shows you gen AI. Here's what a large language model is. Here's what AI is. Here's what AI image generators are.

Here's how they work. Here's how to work with a large language model. Here's what prompting is. here's how to properly prompt. Here's how to access the internet. Here's how to make sure large language models don't lie. Those are essential skills that students need. But instead, universities have been running from Gen.

AI because they don't know how to deal with it. All right? Let's look at a couple more of these stories. All right. Because I want you to know what's being talked out, talked about out there. All right. So this one from CNN. business saying schools are teaching chat chbt so students aren't left behind right so this is just this is

just more anecdotal right so you have a lot of now it's it's almost like school systems trying to save face and they're like oh no we're doing fun things don't worry you know oh yeah we're we're doing great things with chat dbt we're having students you know rewrite shakespeare in the voice of Kanye west with with chat dbt right that's not teaching students Generative AI. All right, here's another story here. And we'll share more of these. So chat,

TPT and school instruction navigating between evolution and caution. Right. So this as an example is talking about the Philadelphia school district is limiting the use of AI software for students until they learn more about it. Right. And then last but not least, another one from the New York Times, how schools can survive and maybe even thrive with AI.

this fall. And you'll see here, I like this New York Times. Step one, they said, assume all students are going to use the technology. Yeah, they are. I want to toss this up. I want to get some of your thoughts. I want to get some of your comments before I start to slowly wrap this up. All right. So Jackie says, I get the challenges. People think AI is going to make humans dumb. I think it leaves room for elevated thought, saying students in college can't write when they get to college. It will help them. Absolutely. That's a good thought.

I like that. A little more on this. I'm going to go, I'm going to play devil's advocate here that people think AI is going to make humans dumb. It does leave room for elevated thought. I agree. However, I've talked, I've talked to students that I've been using chat GPT exclusively. and they tell me, I forgot how to write. They forget how to write, you know?

And here's the other thing, students, you're not doing a very good job using chat GPT anyways and trying to pass it off. I'm just going to say that. You're not doing a very good job. You're not putting work into actually learning a large language model and how to prompt. You're doing the bare minimum, students. I'm calling you out, right? If you're going to use chat GPT to write your essays,

at least do it the right way. Do it in a way where you're learning how to use a large language model. Do it in a way where you are building a skill set that will help you get a job. Don't, don't take, you know, I say don't take shortcuts using chat GBT to write your papers is a shortcut. But do it in a way where you are also learning, where you are going back and forth with the output, where you are building up skills. Don't just, you know, say, hey, write a, you know, 2,000 word paper on, you know, whatever you're writing about now. What are students writing about? The Industrial Revolution?

Is that still something we write about? All right, here we go. Woozy, here we go. This is what I'm here. He says destroy. He's not entirely convinced. So thanks for the comment. Woosie, that it's a bad thing because our education system isn't the greatest.

Woozy saying, I just know personally I've been able to learn topics quicker using AI. Yes. Now that I was able to learn topics I was going to college for. that's a great point. And that's one of the topics that I wanted to make. Instead of schools learning how to use AI and teaching it, they're just trying to, you know, be innovative and say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to allow it. Sure, sure.

They don't know. Like most schools don't know what they're doing. They don't. Right. There is such a, there is such a huge divide right now, I think, between. And I've, we've had professors on the show. we've had people talking about AI and education, and we've had students on the show talking about AI as well.

There is such a divide with the pace at which schools are trying to integrate this into their curriculum. The problem, I think the problem is there's too much bureaucracy at universities here in the U.S. To get new curriculum approved, it takes months or more than a year. Guess what, schools, by that time, your chat GPT or mid-journey or runway, like whatever you're trying to teach, it's going to be all outdated. Universities need to innovate.

They need to be quick and they need to get ahead of the curve because right now, students are ahead. Universities are behind. And that's a problem for our U.S. education system, right? students have been using chat GPT since it came out and schools have been scrambling to keep up in making if I'm being honest making bad decisions there was such a rush to just ban all generative AI right in some schools still entire school districts you know if you're talking cities you know I just gave gave the example for Philadelphia there universities huge universities are still

banning the use of generative AI which I'm sorry Parents, right? If you're a parent out there, let's break it down like this. The skill set right now that is in highest demand on the job market are things like prompt engineers, right? Workplaces, workforces want experience with generative AI. They want people who can prompt. They want people who can write code with AI. And if all of these tools are banned by the universities, parents, how are your,

Kids going to get a job, right? If I had a child right now that was going into college, the first thing I would be looking at is how are they using generative AI? Because if they're banning it and not teaching it, I'm sorry. I wouldn't expect my kid in four years to get a job that's worth anything, right? I can't emphasize this enough universities. You know what? Parents send this episode to your teachers.

Tag them in the comments. the newsletter we put together, send it to them. If you work in a university, send this episode to your colleagues. Because I know we're already like 20 plus minutes into this rant, but I'm going to rant a little bit more. Universities, you are going to get left behind. If you do not integrate generative AI at a very high level this year, period. right? I don't want to get all doomsdayer and, you know, the economy and the workforce,

but we've had someone on the show before. Very smart guy, Corey Warfield. He said, hey, companies, companies have 18 months. And if you can't figure out and implement generative AI in every aspect of your business, in 18 months, your business is likely to fail. All right. I agree. 18 months. Okay. universities you can't even get generative AI onto your like there should be multiple generative AI platforms you can't even get that done in a year you know universities should have already had fully fledged gen AI programs it is a language right not not teaching our students generative AI is like them coming out of school and not knowing how to Google something it's like them not

knowing how to type on a keyboard. It's like them not knowing what social media is. These are literal, foundational skill sets that are going to make our future generations employable. All right. We're going to end with that. I can throw up every single comment. I'm going to get to the comments afterwards. Don't worry. I appreciate all of your inputs. This ended up as one of those shows where I kind of just. gave you some hot takes, right? Because I think it's sometimes important, you know, a lot of times here on everyday AI, we go kind of middle of the road, right, which I think is important.

We present you the facts. We bring on experts. You ask questions. We give you answers, right? Today's not like that. I will take this question, Vena, thank you. So Vena is saying, I absolutely. agree they should learn AI, but how do you suggest to stop plagiarism and homework and students

getting away with it? Here's the thing. Thank you. And this is important for students to hear, for university heads to hear, for parents to hear, for everyone. Students are always going to outsmart the teachers, the education system, whatever, whatever, you know, mechanisms you have in place to, quote unquote, stop cheating in the age of AI. y'all there's i was going to show this on the screen but i'll talk about it right because

let's let's quickly talk about some of the proposed solutions you know they say okay well everything can be handwritten right sure everything can be handwritten but in theory you can just use chat tpt and then write it out right or you know they say okay well you know we can have handwriting in class right. All right. Sure. That's one way is if you're going to write papers or do homework, make it all do in class. Sure. But I think so much of learning happens outside of the classroom because you have to be able to process things independently outside of when you have access to a teacher. That's what learning is. Otherwise, you're literally just like repeating what someone says, right? So yeah, that's one way. Make all work, classroom work, handwritten. I think,

personally, I would require generative AI use for everything, right? I would require it. But I would say you also have to in person then the way I would use classroom time is my students, whether it allows for one minute or 10 minutes, but my students would present, you know, whatever you're learning about. Here's how I use generative AI. And here's it in my own words, not reading off a paper. Hey, look up at me and tell me what you learned. and tell me how you use generative AI to get there. Right. So I do think that we're going to see a shift toward that.

I think the innovative classrooms have already started to do it, but most haven't. But I think you're going to get back to more old school presentation, more old school conversation, right? I'm going to sit down with you one on one and I'm going to ask you, what did you learn? Answer this question, you and me, right? That's the future because that's the future. That's also a skill set. That's a skill set.

Being able to talk now is such an important aspect, I think, because generative AI, it makes language a little less valuable, written copy, less valuable. Images, right? Anyone now can create beautiful dozens of AI images or videos. I think the value of certain mediums, written words, photos, designs, videos, presentations. Because it is easier and easier to create that at high quality, I think as consumers,

our brains are going to start to devalue what we used to very much value. And I think something that's going to be valued in the future is presentation, me talking to you, a student talking to the class, group presentations, right, going old school. But yeah, in terms of like, how can students, how can we see if they're plagiarizing or not, students are always going to be a step ahead. There's no program that can tell you. You know, you can say like, oh, take a writing sample, you know, in person and then, you know, there's software. You know, again, people are selling schools on this. Then there's softwares, right? So first day of

class, everyone handwrite something about the, you know, whatever class that is, history. So you write what you know. And then you upload that into this software. And then every single thing you turn in, It's still written, you know, you type it up, but it's going to, it's going to, you know, go against your baseline, right? Schools are literally investing hundreds of thousands of dollars into software systems that do just that. Guess what? You can break it in 10 seconds. You train chat GPT. You take your, you know, talk. You take recordings, dump them in, have chat GPT mimic your voice, your style, you're writing, the words you use everything. And there you go, bust it, right? So school, stop trying. I don't care. Like, students will always be a step ahead of you because there's more of them and they're using this technology more than the people making the rules.

They will always win. So university educators, you have to get smart. You have to immediately, if you don't have it in for this semester, get it in. Get generative AI education in. Reach out to me. You know what? I've offered this, right? I can't do it for everyone, but.

I'll do a guest lecture, right? For your university, I'll do five, right? I don't know if a couple people have already reached out to me about this. I'll do five. I'll go top to bottom, gen AI, have me sub in for your university class. I don't care if it's a marketing class, general studies, don't care. I'll do five, you know, let me know in the comments here. If you're listening on the podcast, email me.

I will sit down and teach your students top to bottom, the basics. of Gen A. I'm not a PhD or anything. I have a master's degree, I guess. But I teach, you know, I've helped hundreds of thousands of people on this show. Learn Gen A.I. I will help your students. Closing thoughts. I know I said I'd close this out five minutes ago. I'm going to wrap this up. This has been all over the place. Number one, almost all students are using chat GPT to write papers. and they will continue to regardless schools, regardless of what rules you put in place. Number two, AI content detectors do not work. If your school district or your university is using them, stop.

They don't work. It is setting up not just your students to fail, but it is setting up your system to fail as well. Number three, you can't ask AI or chat GPT what was written by AI or chat GPT. You can't do that. And we'll say number four. start teaching generative AI in every aspect of your curriculum. It is more important for students to learn generative AI than any other skill set right now. Because that is what employers want.

We have to properly equip the next generation to not just learn and to be employable, but to move our economy forward. It's on you all. Thanks for joining us for this hot take episode. Hope to see you back again on everyday AI. Thanks y'all. Meet Firefly AI Assistant, now live in Adobe Firefly, the Allman One Creative AI Studio.

Just describe what you want to create in your own words and the assistant handles the rest, orchestrating multi-step workflows across Adobe Creative Cloud apps, including Photoshop, Premiere Express, and more in one conversational interface. You direct the outcome while the assistant accelerates execution. Stay in control with the ability to step in and refine at any time. See it today at firefly.adobie.com.

And that's a wrap for today's edition of Everyday AI. Thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a rating. It helps keep us going. For a little more AI magic, visit Your EverydayAI.com and sign up to our daily newsletter so you don't get left behind. Go break some barriers and we'll see you next time.