Everything Everywhere Daily: History, Science, Geography & More - Hanns Scharff: Master Interrogator of the Luftwaffe

Episode Date: April 24, 2021

If I were to say “prisoner of war interrogator” something rather menacing probably comes to mind. If I were to say “Nazi prisoner of war interrogator” something really menacing probably comes to mind. And If I were to say the “the greatest Nazi prisoner of war interrogator”, you are probably imagining a truly horrifying, evil person. Learn more about Hanns Schraff, and his surprising story, on this episode of Everything Everywhere Daily. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If I were to say Prisoner of War Interrogator, something rather menacing might come to mind. If I were to say Nazi Prisoner of War Interrogator, something really menacing might come to mind. And if I were to say the greatest Nazi prisoner of war interrogator ever, you are probably imagining a truly horrifying evil person. Learn more about Hans Sheriff and his rather surprising story on this episode of Everything Everywhere Daily. What if your perceptions about the past were wrong? ThruLine is a podcast that takes you back in time to uncover the parts of the story that may have gone unnoticed. It effectively turned day into night. And how it shaped the world now.

Time travel with us every week on the ThruLine podcast from NPR. This episode is sponsored by the Travel Photography Academy. In 2007, I sold my home to travel around the world. I bought an expensive camera that I didn't know how to use and took a bunch of terrible photos. Several years, 100 countries, and tens of thousands of photos later, I'd improved my photography to the point where I was winning national awards being named Travel Photographer of the Year three times in North America. I created the Travel Photography Academy,

so you don't have to spend the many years that I did to improve your photography. Even though we can't easily travel right now, You can still work on improving your photography at home and in your own community. Just go to travel photography academy.com or click on the link in the show notes to start improving your photography today. Hans Sheriff didn't set out for a military career. He was born in East Prussia in 1907, in what is today Poland. His father was a Prussian military officer who died in World War I in the Western Front, and he had received two iron crosses for bravery.

His mother was the daughter of one of the largest textile mill owners in Germany. Hans grew up in the family's villa in Leipzig, where the textile mill was located. He was trained in art and also spent several years working in the mill to learn about textiles and weaving. His older brother was tapped to take over the business from their grandfather. So Hans went to work for the German company Alder Automotive in their foreign office in Johannesburg, South Africa. He excelled in his position, which was originally only supposed to be for a year, and was promoted to the head of international operations for Alder. He remained in South Africa for the next decade.

While he was there, he met his wife, who was a British South African, and he became quite fluent in English. In 1939, he and his family traveled back to Germany to see his relatives in Leipzig, and while he was there, war broke out. He was stranded in Germany, as he couldn't leave the country due to border closures. Eventually, he got a job in Germany, and like so many other German men, was drafted into the military. The unit he was assigned to was supposed to be sent to the Eastern Front in Russia. Everyone in Germany knew that the Eastern Front was a meat grinder, so his wife managed to secure a meeting with a German general, explaining that his knowledge of English made him far more valuable than as a frontline soldier. The general agreed, so he was transferred to an interpreter unit.

In the interpreter unit, he was assigned various low-level paperwork tasks, mostly punching holes in paper. While he was bored one day, he estimated that each hole he punched cost the military five Fenning, which was the German equivalent of a penny. His superior didn't particularly like his attitude, but saw that his talent was probably wasted, so they gave him one of the few coveted assignments at the Luftwaffe Interrogation Center. The Interrogation Center was in Oberersal, which is just north of Frankfurt. All captured Allied pilots from the Western Front were sent here for their initial interrogation. He was assigned to be the assistant interrogation officer of the American Fighters section,

which primarily questioned men from the 8th and 9th Army Air Force units. It was here he taught himself how to do interrogations. He was never formally trained. He just figured it out from observation and common sense. Sharif became the top interrogator in the Luftwaffe. He was known for getting information from almost everyone he interrogated. How did he do it? Did he perfect some torture method?

Did he hook up prisoners to electric batteries? The method he used involved becoming friends and taking the prisoners on walks in the woods. Yep, I'm serious. he would basically do the exact opposite of what you'd expect atop the Luf Wafa prisoner interrogator to do. He was so successful that most of the pilots he interrogated had absolutely no idea that they had even given up any information. His technique was more than just becoming friends with the prisoners. He would start by letting a subject know that he was the only ally the prisoner had. He would gather biographical information on each subject and then tell the subject that he needed more than name rank and serial number.

If they couldn't give him something more, then he would be treated as a spy rather than as a prisoner of war. Another technique he used was to have his subjects just confirm things that he already knew. During this process, the subject would confirm obvious things, but at some point, he would get them to confirm things that the Germans didn't know. He just didn't let on as to what the actual things they didn't know were. He would go on walks in the woods with the prisoners, without guards. Each prisoner would be asked on their honor not to try to escape before their walks, and no one did. On their walks, he wouldn't talk about the war at all and just talked about other things. He would collect extensive information about allied units, including who their commanders were,

and then would make up information about their spouses just to make it seem like they knew more than they actually did. Sometimes, he would purposely say something wrong, just so the subject would correct him. For example, the Luftwaffe had noticed that some tracer rounds from fighters were white, while others were red. Sharif said that it must have come from a chemical shortage. One of his subjects corrected him and said that the white tracers meant that they were running low on ammunition. The Germans didn't know that. In the end, he interrogated almost 500 prisoners, almost all fighter pilots. He managed to get information from all but 20.

After the war, one of his subjects, Colonel Hubert Zemke said, quote, What did he get out of me? There's no doubt in my mind that he did extract something, but I haven't the slightest idea what, unquote. Another prisoner he interrogated, Lieutenant Colonel Francis Gabby Gabrowski, who was the top American ace in Europe during World War II, became friends with sheriff for almost 50 years. He was one of the few prisoners which he wasn't able to get any information. After the war in 1948, he was recruited by the American government to interrogate Martin Monti, a pilot who defected to Germany in the middle of the war. He came to the United States and stayed, deciding to immigrate. While in the U.S., his techniques became a focus of study for the military and other government units.

In 1978, a book was published about his interrogation techniques called The Interrogator, the story of Hans Sheriff Lufwaffe's Master Interrogator. An interesting conclusion to the story is what Sheriff did after he immigrated to the U.S. As I mentioned above, he studied art as a child. He began working as an artist which created mosaics. He created a company that did high-profile mosaic projects. His most notable project was inside Cinderella's castle in Disney World. If you go inside today, you'll see five, 15-foot-high mosaics telling the story of Cinderella,

all of which were made by the Luftwaffe's master interrogator. Hans Sheriff passed away in 1992. His Mosaic Company is still in business creating custom mosaics around the world. In 2009, the United States created the high-value detainee interrogation group, which uses Sheriff's methods. His methods prove the old adage that you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. The associate producer of Everything Everywhere Daily is Thor Thompson. If you'd like to support the show, please donate over at patreon.com.

There is content only available to supporters, merchandise, and even opportunities for a show producer credit. If you know someone you think would enjoy the show, please share it with them. Also remember, if you leave a five-star review, I'll read your review on the show. Well, sir, I haven't done anything. I always do nothing. I see nothing, I hear nothing. And about all, I know nothing. Yes.