Everything Everywhere Daily: History, Science, Geography & More - Sede Vacante and The Process of Papal Succession

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

After the death or resignation of a pope, but before the election of a new pope, there is a period of time at the Vatican known as Sede Vacante.  The Sede Vacante doesn’t last very long, and it doesn’t happen very often, but when it does occur, it is a very busy time.  This period has its own coat of arms and highly regimented series of events that have to take place. There are also firm rules about what can’t happen and what can’t be done. Learn more about the Sede Vacante and the selection of a new pope on this episode of Everything Everywhere Daily. Sponsors Mint Mobile Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com/eed Quince Go to quince.com/daily for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order! Stitch Fix Go to stitchfix.com/everywhere to have a stylist help you look your best Tourist Office of Spain Plan your next adventure at Spain.info  Stash Go to get.stash.com/EVERYTHING to see how you can receive $25 towards your first stock purchase and to view important disclosures. Subscribe to the podcast!  https://everything-everywhere.com/everything-everywhere-daily-podcast/ -------------------------------- Executive Producer: Charles Daniel Associate Producers: Austin Oetken & Cameron Kieffer   Become a supporter on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/everythingeverywhere Update your podcast app at newpodcastapps.com Discord Server: https://discord.gg/UkRUJFh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/everythingeverywhere/ Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/everythingeverywheredaily Twitter: https://twitter.com/everywheretrip Website: https://everything-everywhere.com/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After the death or resignation of a pope, but before the election of a new pope, there's a period of time at the Vatican known as Setti Vacante. The Setti Vicante doesn't last very long, and it doesn't happen very often. But when it does occur, it's a very busy time. This period has its own coat of arms and highly regimented series of events that have to take place. And there are also firm rules about what can't happen and what can't be done. Learn more about the Sete Vacante and the selection of the United States. of a new Pope on this episode of Everything Everywhere Daily.

What if your perceptions about the past were wrong? ThruLine is a podcast that takes you back in time to uncover the parts of the story that may have gone unnoticed. It effectively turned day into night. And how it shaped the world now. Time travel with us every week on the ThruLine podcast from NPR. Way, way back when I first launched this podcast. I did an episode about how popes are selected.

And to be honest, those very early episodes were really not my best. And with the recent death of Pope Francis, I felt it was time to revisit the subject. What I hope to achieve in this episode is to explain the events that are going to take place over the next two or three weeks in Rome. If you aren't Catholic, or even if you weren't Christian, I still think you can find the events that will be taking place interesting or at least recognize their importance. The fact is, this doesn't happen very often. This is the only fifth time in my life that it's taken place, and two of those were within a month of each other in 1978. The Pope, in addition to his religious role as the Bishop of Rome,

is also the leader of the tiny state of Vatican City. The Pope, in that role, is a monarch. However, it's not a hereditary monarchy, as the Pope is celibate. When a monarch dies in a hereditary monarch, At the moment of death, the throne passes to their successor. When the Pope dies, their papacy ends, but there isn't an immediate successor. That gap between one papacy and another is known in Latin as SETI Vacante, and it simply means the seat is vacant. Once a Pope dies or resigns, a pre-planned series of events unfolds culminating in the election of a new Pope.

The first priority of business is the declaration of the death of the current Pope. Centuries ago, there were traditions that they would tap the forehead of the Pope with a small silver hammer and whisper his birth name into his ear. Today, it simply involves the declaration of a doctor. One of the traditional practices that is still observed is the destruction of the fisherman's ring. Each pope has a signet ring that they wear that bears some design that's emblematic of their position. Upon death, the ring is immediately defaced or destroyed in some way. It's usually smashed with a hammer.

However, when Pope Benedict resigned, they chiseled a cross into its face instead. The destruction of the ring actually serves a practical purpose, although it's less important today than it used to be. The signet ring was used to seal important documents in wax. The destruction of the ring is to ensure that no one uses the ring to seal a document so they could later claim that the Pope endorsed something that he didn't. After the ring is destroyed and the Pope's body has been removed, the papal apartments are sealed.

The person who destroys the ring in the presence of witnesses is called the Carmelengo of the Holy Roman Church. The Carmelengo is normally responsible for running the day-to-day temporal affairs of the Vatican. While the position is always held by a cardinal, it's pretty much just an administrative role. after the death of a pope, however, the Carmelengo becomes the most important person in the Vatican. In theory, the entire college of Cardinals is responsible for the administration of the church during a Sidi-Vicante period. However, the Carmelengo is the one who actually does the work as he lives and works in the Vatican,

and most of the Cardinals are flying in from around the world and aren't aware of what's happening in day-to-day affairs at the Vatican. When a Pope dies, all the members of the Roman Roman people, and Curia, that being the administrative body of the Holy See, have their positions vacated automatically. The Carmelangos' two major jobs during this period are to oversee the funeral of the Pope and to organize the conclave to elect the next Pope. He also has to keep everything functioning over at the Vatican. Neither he nor any of the other cardinals may make any major decisions that would normally be the power of the Pope, nor may they do anything that would bind a future Pope. The Vatican then announces the death of the Pope through various official channels,

including Vatican Radio and the Vatican website. Just as an aside, I first learned of the death of Pope Francis when I woke up on Monday morning. I heard about it when I opened an email on my laptop while I was still sitting in bed. A television station from Philadelphia wanted me to come on the air and talk about the process of selecting a new pope. Because I've written about this subject in the past, the first thing I did was went to the Vatican website. And sure enough, the front page already had the Sede Vacante coat of arms. So my guess is, just like major newspapers have obituaries of famous people pre-written, they had this webpage ready to go just in case.

There begins an official period of mourning which lasts nine days, known as the Novendiallis, the culmination of which is the funeral mass of the Pope. During this period, the Pope will lie in state in a simple wooden coffin lined with zinc. Cardinals, heads of states, and other dignitaries will fly into Rome for the funeral, which is also a state funeral. The funeral is run by a tax known as the Ordo Exsequium Romani Pontifichus. This was last updated in 2024 by Pope Francis, and every Pope makes changes of how they want their funeral run. Most modern popes are buried in the Vatican Grotto, but Pope Francis requested to be buried in the nearby, Basilica of St. Mary Major.

Once the funeral is over, but no sooner than 15 days and no later than 20 days after the papacy was vacated, the conclave will begin to elect the Pope. The word conclave comes from the Latin conclava, which means with a key. Historically, the conclave developed in response to political interference and prolonged vacancies. During the 13th century, particularly after a three-year city of Conte period following the death of Pope Clement IV, pressure mounted for a more efficient and secluded method of electing popes. At the time, various European monarchs attempted to exert pressure to have their candidates selected as Pope. In 1274, Pope Gregory the 10th formally established

the conclave at the Second Council of Leon, mandating the Cardinals be locked in until a decision was made. Over the centuries, additional rules were added to ensure secrecy, regulate procedures, and minimize external influence. The conclave has evolved into a deeply symbolic and ritualized event, balancing ancient tradition with the administrative needs of the modern church. Cardinals are the group responsible for selecting the Pope. This is ultimately their entire function. Their title and red regalia are just honorifics to reflect this position.

A cardinal has no special religious function per se. Today all cardinals are bishops, usually of a diocese, in major cities around the world. Traditionally, cardinals were leading bishops, priests, deacons, and even laymen who lived in the city of Rome. For centuries, every pope was Italian, and there's a pragmatic reason for this. After the death of a pope, news traveled slowly. The only cardinals who were able to get to Rome in time for the conclave were other Italians, who of course voted for other Italians. The last three popes have been non-Italians, and it should come as no surprise that they were all elected during an era of jet travel where cardinals from all over the

world could finally attend the conclave. The College of Cardinals is limited in membership. Currently, there are 252 cardinals, but only 135 of which are eligible to vote. To be eligible, you have to be under the age of 80. Most of these men don't know each other very well. They may know of each other by reputation, but they probably only personally know a small number of other cardinals who happen to live in the same country or region. When the conclave starts, everyone, save for a few personal assistance, is required to leave. Traditionally, the cardinals would stay in makeshift cells

and sleep on cots inside the Sistine Chapel. Today, the cardinals stay in St. Martha's House, a guest house built in Vatican City in the 1990s, specifically to house cardinals during the conclave. It also served as the home of Pope Francis since 2013. The facilities have been described as comfortable, but not luxurious. During the conclave, all telephones are to be turned off, all Wi-Fi and cell signals are blocked, and there's no access to television or radio. The Cardinals will eat together

and talk to each other during this time, trying to figure out who to vote for. The actual voting takes place every day in the Sistine Chapel. On the first day of voting, all the Cardinals take an oath of secrecy. From there, they will usually vote four times a day, two votes in the morning, and two the afternoon. The current rules require a two-thirds majority for someone to be elected Pope. Previously, the rules were less stringent. It only required a simple majority, or there was a possibility of approval by acclamation, which was an extremely vague process.

However, the rules have become more explicit over time to eliminate the possibility of loopholes. Each cardinal writes down the name of their candidate on a slip of paper and walks up one by one to put it in a chalice. After each vote, the ballots are read out loud and then connected with a needle and string. The ballots are then burned in a stove inside the Sistine Chapel. Chemicals are burned with the ballots to create either a white or black smoke. If no one has been elected, the smoke is black, and if there's a pope, the smoke is white. The tradition is actually rather recent.

Burning ballots only began in the 19th century, and it wasn't until 1914 that the smoke color indicated the results. There was confusion during some conclaves as to the color of the smoke, as it was sort of grayish, so now they add chemicals to make the color more explicit. In the event of an election of a pope, bells will also now chime in St. Peter's Basilica. If a candidate has gotten two-thirds of the vote, the dean of the College of Cardinals will then ask the candidate if they accept the results of the election. This is assuming, of course, that the candidate is a Cardinal and is in the room. In theory, any Catholic male can be elected Pope, even if they aren't a priest or a bishop. This, however, has not happened in over 500 years, and that was Leo X, who happened to be a

member of the Medici family. Assuming this unlikely event happened, the conclave would be put on hold until the candidate could be summoned to Rome and asked if they would accept. If they're not a priest or bishop, they would need to be ordained and consecrated. The moment a candidate, says they accept, they become the Bishop of Rome and the Pope, assuming that they're already a bishop, which they almost certainly would be. A candidate may refuse the election. It's unknown if this has ever happened, but it's assumed that if anybody ever got to this point, they probably would have let everyone know that they would refuse before they were elected. Once they accept, they are then asked by what name they will go by. Assuming a candidate has been getting votes,

this is something that they probably have already given some thought. The new pope is then taken to a small room in the Sistine Chapel called the Room of Tears. It's called that because this is where many new popes break down and cry. Here he's dressed in one of several papal garments of various sizes that were prepared beforehand. And they have several sizes because they have no idea who's going to be elected pope. By this time, with the white smoke and the bells, a large crowd would have gathered in St. Peter Square. The new Pope, the Proto Deacon of the College of Cardinals, and some other senior Cardinals,

will head to the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica. There, the Proto Deacon will appear first, and say the following in Latin. Anuncio Vobos Gaudium Magum, Habemos Popham. Translated it means, I announce to you a great joy, we have a pope. The new Pope will then address the crowd and give a blessing. You can actually see this moment for, or every pope that has been elected since they have had movies or television. The process is certainly involved, and despite the traditions,

every conclave is a little bit different than the one before it due to small changes made by the previous pope. So over the next few weeks, if you're watching the news, these are approximately the events that will be unfolding, some of which will be very public and some of which will take place behind closed doors. The executive producer of Everything Everywhere Daily is Charles Daniel. The associate producers are Austin Oakden and Cameron Kiefer. I want to thank everyone who supports the show over on Patreon. Your support helps make this podcast possible.

I'd also like to thank all the members of the Everything Everywhere community who are active on the Facebook group and the Discord server. If you'd like to join in the discussion, there are links to both in the show notes. And as always, if you leave a review or send me a boostagram, you too can have it read on the show.