Everything Everywhere Daily: History, Science, Geography & More - The World's Next Countries

Starting point is 00:00:00 Depending on how you define it, there are about 193 to 200 countries in the world today. Over the last 100 years, that number has been constantly increasing. Sometimes the number goes up a lot in short periods of time, and other times there might be decades between the creation of a new country. There hasn't been a new country created since 2011, but it's entirely possible that we might make new additions to the list of nations before this decade is out. Learn more about the world's next possible country,

Starting point is 00:00:30 on this episode of Everything Everywhere Daily. What if your perceptions about the past were wrong? ThruLine is a podcast that takes you back in time to uncover the parts of the story that may have gone unnoticed. It effectively turned day into night. And how it shaped the world now. Time travel with us every week on the ThruLine podcast from NPR. In a previous episode, I discussed the problem of trying to count the number of of countries in the world. It's a far trickier problem than you might think. Without getting

Starting point is 00:01:21 into the weeds as to how many countries there are, most people would say that there are between 193, which is the number of countries in the United Nations, and the low 200s, which is the number in other international organizations. The number of countries in the world has changed radically over time. In the early 19th century, most of the estimates I've read put the number of countries at somewhere in the low 200s. This includes a lot of kingdoms, duchies, chiefdoms, etc. Throughout the 19th century, this number dropped precipitously, as Europe carved up the rest of the world that hadn't already been colonized, especially in Africa. By the first World War, the number of countries in the world was somewhere in the mid-50s, again, depending on how you define it.

Starting point is 00:02:04 The number of countries grew rapidly after the end of the Second World War and the start of decolonization. Every major colonial power had their colonies become independent, sometimes peacefully and sometimes not. until we reached a point in the late 1980s where all but a few small islands had become independent countries. When the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia broke up, there was another spike in the number of new countries. In the 21st century, things have slowed down considerably, but they haven't stopped. There have only been three new countries created since the year 2000. East Timor in 2002. They achieved independence after a long war with Indonesia. Montenegro in 2006. They broke off from Serbia, which had been called Serbia and Montenegro.

Starting point is 00:02:50 Serbia changed its name, but is the successor state to the former one, so I'm not counting them as new. And finally, South Sudan became independent in 2011 after another long war with Sudan. While it's been over a decade since a new country has been created, that hasn't been for a lack of trying. What I'm going to do in this episode is cover the countries that I think have the best odds of becoming independent over the next 10 years. This is, of course, speculative, and I'll almost certainly be wrong about some of them, but all of them are well along the path to becoming

Starting point is 00:03:24 independent. I will not be covering countries that are already de facto independent, but lack universal recognition. That includes Palestine, Kosovo, and Taiwan. I will also not be covering various secession movements in developed countries such as Catalonia, Scotland, Quebec, the Basque country, Flanders, Lombardy, etc. Those, are all issues with very different hurdles that have to be overcome. What I will be covering are the places that are well down the path to independence. For them to complete their independence journey, it's mostly a matter of will on their part and closing the deal with their current countries. So with that, let's start with the first one, Greenland. Greenland has

Starting point is 00:04:05 been a territory of Denmark since 1814 when Denmark took full control following the disillusion of the union between Denmark and Norway. Since then, particularly over the last few decades, Greenland has been given more and more control over its own affairs. It was granted home rule in 1979 and expanded autonomy in 2009. Greenland has a small population of only 56,000 people. While that seems small, and it is, it would be far from the smallest country in the world. In fact, there would be about 10 countries of smaller populations than Greenland. Greenland is very different linguistically and ethnically from Denmark, and it's pretty far away.

Starting point is 00:04:45 Current polling shows support for independence in Greenland at around 70%, and the two largest parties in the Greenland Parliament both support independence. What Greenland has over other small countries is a whole lot of territory and resources, as well as a strategic location. Granted, almost all of their land is covered in ice, but they still have it. economically they are heavily dependent on Denmark, but that could easily be replaced by cutting deals with other larger countries like Canada and the United States, both of which are closer. Greenland is almost entirely autonomous at this point, and I think the transition to independence

Starting point is 00:05:23 as such would be pretty smooth. The next possible independent country is Bougainville. I'm guessing that most of you are not as familiar with Bougainville as you are with Greenland. Bougainville is currently part of Pauapagin, Bougainville is the easternmost part of Pauvinu Guinea, and geographically it's the largest island in the Solomon Islands archipelago. The Bougainville independence movement traces its roots to colonial era grievances and economic exploitation, particularly over the Pangua-Mine which fueled tensions between Bougainville and Paupe New Guinea. In 1975-Nive, Bougainville briefly declared independence from Paupe New Guinea, but was later reintegrated. Discontent over resource control and ethnic differences led to the Bougainville Civil War,

Starting point is 00:06:08 which took place from 1988 to 1998, between separatist groups and Pauapenugni forces, resulting in thousands of deaths. A peace agreement in 2001 granted Bougainville autonomous status and promised a future independent referendum. In 2019, a non-binding referendum saw a 97.7% vote in favor of independence, yet full sovereignty depends on negotiations with Paupe New Guinea. The agreement between the government and Bougainville outlines a timeline for independence between 2025 and 2027. But ratification by Papua New Guinea's parliament remains the last hurdle. If Bougainville became independent, it would have a population of about 300,000 people and would have a per capita GDP of about $1,100 per person per year. The next potential country isn't far away from Bougainville. It's New Caledonia.

Starting point is 00:07:02 New Caledonia is currently part of France. France has a very different history of decolonization from other countries. For example, when the British made the decision to dismantle their empire after World War II, they couldn't get rid of their colonies fast enough. The French, on the other hand, resisted almost everything. They went to war over Algeria. Other than Haiti, which had a violent revolution, none of the French territories in the Caribbean have ever become independent.

Starting point is 00:07:30 France acquired New Caledonia. in 1853 and took it as a colony from the native Canic people who live there. Calls for independence intensified in the 1970s and 1980s, leading to violent clashes, including the Uvea hostage crisis in 1988. The Uvea hostage crisis occurred from April to May 1988 when Canic separatists in New Caledonia took police hostage on Uvea Island, leading to a violent French military raid that resulted in the deaths of 19 Canic militants and two soldiers. This led to the Matignonic.

Starting point is 00:08:02 Accords in 1988 and later the Numia Accords in 1998, which granted New Caledonia greater autonomy and outlined a process for potential independence. Three referendums were held in 2018, 2020, and 2021 with pro-independence vote increasing initially, but ultimately rejected, especially due to the controversial 2021 vote, which Canic leaders boycotted due to the COVID-19 pandemic. One of the problems is that the native Canic people only make up a approximately 41% of New Caledonia's population today. Other significant groups include European French at around 24% and smaller communities of Polynesians, Indonesians, Vietnamese, and other Pacific Islanders. Of the countries I've mentioned so far, New Caledonia has the hardest road to

Starting point is 00:08:50 independence because of the population demographics of the island and the fact that they're controlled by France. If they become independent, they would have a population of about 271,000 people and relatively high per capita GDP of $34,000. Only about 15% of the new Caledonian economy comes from economic support from France. Most of their economy comes from nickel-vining and tourism. The next country on my list is Somaliland. Somaliland is the northernmost part of the nation of Somalia. It is, for all practical purposes, already an independent country. They control all their own affairs. They are completely autonomous. The Somali government has no presence in Somaliland. They issue their own passports, have their own currency, and have run democratic elections with

Starting point is 00:09:39 peaceful transitions of power. In terms of land, they are slightly larger than Uruguay and have the population of approximately 6.2 million people, which is about the same as El Salvador. Somaliland was previously a British protectorate from 1884 to 1960. They briefly gained independence on June 26, 1960, before voluntarily uniting with Italian Somaliland to form the nation of Somalia. Decades of marginalization, political instability, and civil war, particularly the brutal suppression of the Isak clan led to a growing independence movement. Somaliland unilaterally declared independence from Somalia in 1991 after the collapse of the dictator, Siad Barr's regime.

Starting point is 00:10:24 After the collapse of the bar regime, most of the country collapsed into factions, by warlords. The exception was Somaliland, which actually became an island of relative stability. So if they've basically been running their own affairs for 30 years and existing as a de facto independent country, why aren't they considered independent? It has to do with the fact that everyone, including other African countries, are very hesitant to recognize new African countries. As I covered in a previous episode, the map of Africa was drawn by European powers. Since decolonization, only two new countries have been created, Eritrea and South Sudan. Both of these involved long, bloody wars.

Starting point is 00:11:08 The fear is that if Somaliland's neighbors recognize them, then they're opening the door to other separatist movements in their own countries. Also, the Somali government in Mogadishu doesn't recognize their independence, even though they have zero influence in the region anymore. Somaliland independence is sort of out of their hands. there has been talk of Ethiopia finally recognizing Somaliland. If a few countries start, then maybe it would open the floodgates for more countries to recognize the reality on the ground for the last 30 years, that Somaliland has in fact been independent. The final country that has an excellent chance of becoming independent is the Cook Islands. The Cook Islands are a Polynesian territory of about 15,000 people who live on the islands.

Starting point is 00:11:55 The Cook Islands are as close as you can currently get to being an independent country without actually being an independent country. Officially, they are a territory of New Zealand. However, they have full control over their own affairs. They have diplomatic relations with several countries, including the United States. They also have their own Olympic team and representatives in international organizations, such as UNESCO and the World Health Organization. They even have their own currency and stamps.

Starting point is 00:12:23 The New Zealand government has said that they will not stop Cook Islands independence if they should choose to declare independence. So then, why isn't the Cook Islands independent? It primarily has to do with citizenship and passports. While 15,000 people live in the Cook Islands, there's another 85,000 to 100,000 Cook Islanders who live in New Zealand, the vast majority of whom were born there. Currently, all Cook Islanders have New Zealand citizenship. The Cook Islands wants to issue their own passports. New Zealand's stance is that if you want to do that, then you need to become independent, which they have no problems with, but you can't have it both ways. The ties between the Cook Islands and New Zealand are so strong that there hasn't really been a lot of pressure to take the next final step for full independence. They could literally do it at any time, and there's nothing stopping them, except for the fact that they just haven't bothered to pull the trigger on full independence yet.

Starting point is 00:13:23 Just for good measure, I should also acknowledge the possibility of independence for the other, much smaller New Zealand territories of Tokolau and Nui, but I will save those for another episode. I think that the territories I've listed here have the best shot at being new potential members of the United Nations by the year 2035. However, you never know what's going to happen in the future. Some major countries could collapse and split into multiple countries, some breakaway faction of a country could win a civil war or something else entirely unforeseen could happen. And that uncertainty is part of the process of how brand new countries are made. The executive producer of Everything Everywhere Daily is Charles Daniel.

Starting point is 00:14:09 The associate producers are Austin Oaken and Cabrin Kiefer. I have a correction I'd like to make. In the previous episode on the Cambridge Five, I said that the U.S. Signal Intelligence Program that Spide in the Soviets was called Project Verona. Discord user PFE October 2016 correctly pointed out that the name of the project was Venona, not Verona. The R should be replaced with an N. Today's review is a one-star review from listener EED is horrible over on Apple Podcasts in the United States. They write, Horrible, written by AI.

Starting point is 00:14:46 Thank you for the review EED is horrible. Such a well-thought-out and coherent argument. I'm sure scholars will be studying this review for centuries to teach future generations' argumentation and logic. I can assure you that this podcast is written, researched, and recorded by an actual human being, not artificial intelligence. In fact, this podcast had been out for two years before the first large language models had ever been made public. That being said, I, for one, do welcome our new artificial intelligence overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted podcast personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground cyber caves. Remember, if you leave a review, you might

Starting point is 00:15:27 have it read on the show, even if it makes absolutely no sense.

Everything Everywhere Daily: History, Science, Geography & More - The World's Next Countries

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