Everything Is Content - 2010s feminism is back, baby!

Episode Date: March 22, 2024

It’s another week where we’re pining for our baby girl Ruchira, but luckily the pop-culture universe has served us a big SCOOP of content to dissect this week… Join Beth and Oenone as we discuss the movie that everyone is talking about - Lindsay Lohan’s Irish Wish, the arrival of a new Banksy on someone’s gaff in Islington and the return of everyone’s problematic fave… 2010s feminism! —NETFLIX: Love Is BlindNETFLIX: Irish Wish NETFLIX: The Durrells NETFLIX: Scoop TrailerMETRO: This Morning viewers can’t cope over ‘sensational’ Kate Middleton blunderNME: Owner of Banksy mural flats says he won’t put up rent – but could be tempted to sellNEW STATESMAN: The return of 2010s feminism RUTGER BREGMAN: Utopia For Realists—Follow us on Instagram:@everythingiscontentpod @beth_mccoll @ruchira_sharma@oenone ---Everything Is Content is produced by Faye Lawrence for We Are GrapeExec Producer: James Norman-FyfeMusic: James RichardsonPhotography: Rebecca Need-Meenar Artwork: Joe Gardner  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

this is everything is content i'm beth this is everything is content i'm beth and i'm anoni and our baby garbage here is on holiday we miss her severely but she will be back with us next week, so get excited. In the meantime, Everything Is Content is the pop culture podcast where we dive into the discourse and deconstruct everything in your pop culture universe. With a swirl of caramel syrup in your content iced latte. You can follow us on Instagram at everythingiscontentpod and please leave us a review if you love the podcast.

On today's episode we'll be talking about the multiple adaptations of that Prince Andrew interview, the new Banksy and the revival of 2010s feminism. Did it ever go away? So every week we start the podcast with things that we've been loving this week and I hear we have a very special voice note from our long lost third party member. Richera go on hit us up. Hello it's the final week of my holiday don't worry next week I'm going to be right back in the studio slash Anoni's room recording with the girls again but I wanted to tell you about one thing that I was loving since I've been away, which is Love is Blind. There was the reunion that dropped.

No spoilers, but this season has been possibly the worst with the couples that made it to the altar and beyond, which bizarrely made for really good TV. You would have thought that you'd want all the couples to make it through and that would be the most interesting part of it but actually a lot of them kind of not making it made it feel more authentic rather than feeling like they just succumbed to the pressure of the show

and you know did the wedding at the end. It was more interesting to see it just go the route that you expected it to go. I think I would say that as a fan of the show, this season has been really compelling because of the people they brought on. They kind of had a lot more going on in terms of being a bit more authentic to why relationships don't work out. know somebody having insecurities for example one person in particular who's been a bit of a standout character has had a really interesting upbringing with his parents having quite a tumultuous relationship that didn't work out and he was very open about trauma being a big central part of his fear of commitment the whole thing has

been really interesting and I think it's shown that this show still has legs even though the format you know is repeated time and time again but I would love to hear your thoughts please please please tell me what do you think well so I started watching Lovers Blind on Beth and Richera's recommendation but got pulled away for various other things I've been watching so Beth what's your response to that because I need to I need to actually watch the series I've seen so much about it I agree with everything which you said I can't believe me and Richie have not spoken more about this but it is a great series from beginning to end it actually has like has characters which are interesting or

like real people which who are interesting I think the last few series have been kind of they blur into one for me whereas this like it feels like they properly stand out so I really enjoyed it and I would recommend it's interesting that it sounds like it's got more authentic normally what happens as the show progresses is it gets less authentic but if they're stepping away from the aisle i agree that's kind of gratifying in a concept where it's like oh actually they it's not like love island where they go through with it they come out the other end they pretend to be a couple yeah they've obviously gone through the whole process got to the point of going down the aisle and gone actually no i don't want to

they have to carry on this farce if i made this up or did i hear a rumor that it's coming to the uk i don't know i've not heard that rumor i don't know how it would work who is getting down on a knee well this is what i thought because it's like i think we spoke about this in the group chat um me and matura spoke about how we don't think it would work in the UK because Brits are not earnest enough they're not going to be as forthcoming like we feel like we're the wrong culture but the pods are heading across the pond for Lovers Blind UK

stop this is on netflix.com and it's Emma and Matt Willis oh my god I wonder if Ritira knows that it's confirmed for the UK I don't know oh I'm really excited actually I think it's gonna be so awkward

I don't think it's gonna work I think we're gonna have to watch this as a show as a podcast yeah for science beth what have you been loving this week i have been loving kind of the lindsey low renaissance as i've seen it called i wish i'd coined that but i didn't she has a new film out on netflix called irish wish which i think earlier this week or when i watched it was like number two it was definitely top 10 netflix films uh it's about maddie lindsey lohan's character she plays a book editor who is like secretly in love with an irish author that whose book she edits um and is like kind of gearing herself up to confess her love when he falls in love or like

meets and falls in love with one of her best friends such a classic such a classic I hate when that happens I've been seeing so many funny reviews which like I don't think anyone on this film has ever been to Ireland I don't think anyone's ever met anyone Irish it's so bad it's the best thing I've ever seen I can't having watched it that is kind of it because even though it was filmed in Ireland maybe one Irish actor maybe like three Irish characters and all the other Irish characters

that are being played by non-Irish people they're just English people oh the Irish lead is played by a Welsh man so he's kind of from a well-to-do family

the premise of the film is he gets engaged to this best friend and then they go over to Ireland for the wedding and yeah his family are just posh English accents. He has a passable Irish accent

and everyone else is American. How many films do we have? There's My Best Friend's Wedding. We're going to list all the films. How many films do we have? No, sorry. Well, that's been a while. No.

How many films do we have where someone, it's in a rom-com and someone's entrapped in the wedding fair in love with a... So that Richard Curtis one is that isn't it I'm the Cameron Diaz one anyway this is this is the it's part I guess it is of that style it feels way more like a Christmas film that has nothing to do with Christmas it's so hallmark everyone loves Nancy Lohan she's a stellar actress I'm sorry like she's done some amazing things why are they giving I know she's got a Netflix deal hasn't she for like this set of films and I think her husband worked on this film so I wonder whether

she is this is what she wants to be doing or whether this is kind of like a slow re-entry they're just so lowbrow like everyone is talking about it it's like it is it is the idea is that they're shit and like she's been in some it's so funny how much we took for granted those kind of rom-coms she used to do because they were coming out like every year we didn't actually realize how good they were until they were gone yeah this is definitely way below her standing and her talent and but she is also like the shining star in them so that's another point like she's definitely not outshone by any of the other and like her co-star the other like the other leads are good ed spieler i think his name is who was in the most recent series of

you the kind of british love interest the irish love interest played by a guy who was in homelander like i think it is it's not a terrible cast but she is definitely the best thing about it i am glad she's working that's what i'll say i have been loving very uh very late to the party but the darrells love the darrells i basically put it on when i was really hung over the other weekend and then was like what i think i thought i don't know if it came out at similar times down to nabby but that's what i just imagined it was that little did i I basically put it on when I was really hung over the other weekend and then was like what I think I thought I don't know if it came out at a similar time as Downton Abbey

but that's what I just imagined it was that little did I know they're living on a gorgeous in Corfu on a gorgeous Greek island in this gorgeous dilapidated house

that she apparently buys for like no money so it's based on a book called oh yeah it's a true story isn't it it's someone's memoir I can't remember

what the book is I think his name's like George Durrell it's based on like my family and other animals and it's like people yeah my family and other animals that's it and they said it's like slightly it's someone's memoir i can't remember the book i think his name's like george durrell it's based on like my family and other and it's like people yeah my family and other animals that's it and they said it's like slightly it's kind of exaggerated but it is his story but what an amazing world and i just we like to be able to pick up and just go to greece and yeah so it's like war like pre-world war ii this family like widowed mother yeah so kids and they just go and live

on corfu oh it's but also the relationship with the children is so funny that was like mother and I was trying to like set her up with these men they're like awful there's this like awful drunk man they try and like set her up with and one of the kids has got a gun and she like doesn't really tell them off and one of them's just like obsessed with guns and she's like well I just rather not just done and it's Keely Hawes who I freaking love oh my god Mrs Tom Wormsgans and um yeah and um wait as in Matthew McFadden's wife in real life yeah she's not actually in succession that really threw me that I was so confused I didn't know that anyway it's just really easy watching

it's very lovely it kind of it is a period drama obviously it is but because it's set abroad it's not as icky as some others so basically just taking you away to this different world where people didn't have phones and you know they just eat on the beach they just eat there's one scene where they like put the table in the sea because it's so hot and

they're just sat in the sea eating it's so nice did you start looking why do you want to watch it as i start looking like right move i have been thinking like how feasible would it be to go and live somewhere but anyway really recommend all the series are there for you it's an easy watch and it's really heartwarming i do fancy joshua connor i know that he's been in what was he in the ground um he's also in challengers which is the sexy zendaya zendaya with the two bye boys and then like in a throuple if that is not the premise i'm gonna be so i think is that not the premise i don't know if they're bi i thought they were gay i thought they were gay players i thought it was two tennis players and they're gay they're like getting each other she then has an injury so she'll coach them then they all just start snogging wait are they

not that might be a dream they just straight they're just both i thought she was sort of the conduit but anyway i hope you're so that's i can't wait for that but you know how i feel about this i think if you're having a threesome environment everyone should be getting well if it's mmf i believe globally just kiss each other I agree let's stay in yes that's I think that's our next month so we are going to watch and talk about this

yeah but yeah Josh O'Connor's great Keely Hawes is gorgeous where are you watching this BBC Netflix oh Netflix

that's why maybe it's new to Netflix I don't know I hadn't seen it it just kind of popped up and I thought I'll whack that on lovely

lovely Lovely. So this week, Netflix have dropped the trailer for Scoop, which is the new feature-length dramatisation of the infamous 2019 Newsnight interview between Emily Maitlis and Prince Andrew. It stars Gillian Anderson as Emily Maitlis, Rufus Sewell, hope I'm saying that right, as Prince prince andrew who i don't know if you've seen the pictures looks absolutely terrifying i'm so glad that you can't necessarily tell it's him though because i have a real crush that like he is the holiday sorry like the sexy gorgeous man anyway props the hair and makeup

team on this yeah um uh keely hawes again again she plays his former private secretary amanda thirsk. And Billy Piper is in it as the producer who secured the interview, Sam McAllister. McAllister has published, in 2022, her book, kind of chronicling the events, came out. Called Scoops. Scoops, yep. And Emily Maitlis is currently working with Amazon to develop another adaptation of this, which will star Michael Sheen,

I assume as Andrew. I was like quite anti the show when I was told about the concept. Having watched the trailer and seen the cast, I'm like, fine, I can get behind it. Knowing that Emily Maitlis is doing another one, what are you, I just don't make any sense. It's a lot of,

it's a lot of different retrospectives on an event, which is what, less than four, five years old. And it feels like it happened yesterday because anything pre-20, like that specifically anything that happened then yes that's true feels like yesterday like i couldn't believe that that interview is 2019 i would have sworn that that was 2022 maybe for me i would have sworn it was like really recent so this somehow passed you

by just a quick bit of background um the interview happened in 2019 when Maitlis and Andrew sat down together and discussed among other things his relationship and friendship with uh the American financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein that was the news that interview was like so widely watched and reported on at the time but it was so it feels very recent feels so recent I don't know it's just because like the to this day you can't move on the interwebs without someone making a joke about pizza express not being able to swear yes like it's just it's it's infamous because it's ridiculous i am actually fascinated how they got home to do it i'm fascinated in the trailer they show a bit where they're like asking

him how he thinks it went and he's like well that went very well and you're like you have no idea so it is funny and it is interesting but it seems like such a small thing to have made such a big show on but i love the cast anything with billy piper i will follow her to the ends of the earth oh yeah the cast is so stellar and i think i'm no royalist so i'm like i absolutely don't mind that this remains in the public consciousness i don't mind that he is reminded and everyone is completely aware uh it just feels like we have all the material with the book yeah i and the actual footage that's what i think i wonder what is the what is the idea behind it is that uh is it to like connect maybe with you know people who didn't who just watched the interview or maybe didn't watch the interview don't know much about how it's genuinely

insane it was for a royal to sit down and do this wasn't a fluff piece this was like there was no they didn't ambush him he completely like willingly agreed to be like grilled i guess maybe actually because it's based on that um research maybe it's more actually about the journalism behind it and the lengths they have to go in order to get these interviews so maybe that maybe the angle maybe it won't be that much about the actual interview but more around the parameters in which it happened in yeah if that makes sense which i think will be really interesting because even art like i'm i'm a writer but like not really an investigative journalist like i think probably if it is around that i think that would be super interesting because she's sam mccallister has like a really interesting background in like

criminal prosecution and like just has this crazy career where she's like done a lot of these really incredible interviews and helped set them up so i think that could be and Billy Piper oh my god it's also just interesting timing I mean obviously we're still reeling off the back of um hashtag where's Kate gate and actually on that reminds me did you see on this morning another week Giles Brandreth was on and everyone there's also this ongoing joke that Sheridan Smith is literally in everything so someone has tweeted people keep it does catch me out to be fair people keep tweeting like breaking and then just making anything up and it'll just be for some random account but so they were like breaking Sheridan Smith to start in like an ITV drama about cake game he just says this on this morning and no one says anything about it

it was obviously immediately on love of huns which is why I saw it and it was just making me laugh I've been caught up by poo crave what's. What's that? You know, Pop Crave? That actually tweets very real and mostly like verified facts about pop. There's one called Pooh Crave and they do really silly ones. And I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe this. No, I read them all the time. But also people just change their names and like things

and I just read things and it takes about 10 minutes to figure out. I also wouldn't be surprised if they were doing a Kate thing. So I can see, obviously, that's quite embarrassing for him, but it's not out of the realm of possibility and i think with i mean the crown was more respectful but with our opinion of the royals is sort of souring but our interest in

them hasn't gone anywhere we're as interested but we're less respectful maybe it's also still alive there used to be a thing where things weren't being made i'm sure i've said this before like until people had died like i did feel like the Queen film which I freaking loved was that called We Will Rock You? Oh so you meant about the actual Queen? No sorry

no no no about Queen I loved it and then it quite quickly like the Elton John one came out and I was like I feel like if it'd be more

yeah there's more sense a bit more space between like the the person having lived and died I actually really agree with you but like something like this

I guess because it's like a we have maybe this hunger for like stories about big journalism stories there was she said which I think we've talked about before which was about Harvey Weinstein I mean it's been 50 plus years but like so many films about Watergate scandal Watergate happened 74 this film came out like 76 like there's precedence for this so we've obviously got this one coming out very soon we have another one that Emily Mait mateless is developing with amazon both right you know both happening the same year i definitely want to watch this one that we've seen the trailer of

i just wonder will i be a bit over it by like what is the different angle i just wonder if people will watch this people watch one either of them to like both of them feels like a bit of a reach like is it in is it ongoing interest in the royal family or is it like corruption like what is the draw you're right i do think there's always an appetite for stuff to the royal family so i think that people people will watch it i wonder if there's as well we forget the international appetite for it don't i guess we always think about where this tiny island that was so aware of that prince andrew interview but it was just streamed over here so i wonder actually maybe there's like a whole cohort of people that are massive royal fanatics that it'll be news to them i guess you kind of forget that don't you yeah that's very true well we're we're gonna watch them

and scoop us out on netflix on the 5th of April. Okay, so I want to talk about Banksy. I don't know if you guys have seen it, but basically this week it was confirmed that a new artwork appeared in Finsbury Park in London and it's a Banksy because before Banksy had announced on their Instagram account that it was them there was some speculation people didn't know but before we get into it I have a confession to make so the images of a girl holding what looks like kind of like a hose thing with lots of green and obviously I saw that there was the tree in front of it I thought I didn't realize that the paint initially I didn't realize that the paint was meant to be like if it like the branch that parts of the tree I thought some comment about

climate change like she'd spilt loads of oil up the side of the building or something and then maybe that's it no obviously it's not I ran around now and I'm like I've looked at it again I'm like oh it's obviously like the leaves of the tree that've been cut down so when i looked at the picture i didn't see the girl i just saw the green i went this bit of a reach there's definitely the bank see that's just i don't know i just didn't know it was to do with the tree i thought the tree was just in front of the building that he'd spray painted anything i felt really stupid this is art is subjective but i've obviously got it wrong i have to say so it's been confirmed uh the piece is a green splatter paint on the building behind a tree that has been pruned so it makes it look

like it's sprouting new leaves or if you're me it's like it's some kind of comment on um I don't know just stop oil um and like pretty much every time Banksy has revealed there's a new piece there's gonna be a lot of discourse I actually I'm kind of more invested in this than normal because I do think what's interesting is it is a residential building i really feel like that does complicate things a bit because as you've seen people saying like oh my god what if my rent's gonna go up loads i'm having this building you've also just got queues down the street now people looking at this house in london i mean i'd be so pissed off you would the first time you probably go this is exciting and then you go fuck off and put my

tea on the table i'm trying to watch tv i saw i didn't see it on the news or twitter I saw it on instagram stories of like my friends who live in north london going to see it and like one of them was like oh god there's been a car crash because someone slowed down to watch Banksy or like see see the Banksy there was huge crowds like people taking the kids which I thought it it was quite nice like I think it was Sunday morning people found it i guess actually that being said i my parents have no bristol and there are loads of quite a few banks he's in bristol yeah there's because i think he's from bristol the bay we don't know who they are but i don't people i think people do know who he is but yeah but we don't what we don't okay or do you because i don't but like people go oh it's a secret because people

pay them to do stuff i'm trying to be really um okay yeah because actually, it's an open secret. Well, people obviously know because people pay them to do stuff. I'm trying to be really respectful. Okay, yeah, because actually maybe it's not a man. One of my favorite ones is there's a man hanging out of a window, holding onto the ledge, like holding a couple of balls. He's obviously like got caught having an affair. Like that's the idea. But that's been their fears. I think this is the reason it's different is back then,

Banksy's were just like, wow, this subversive, fun piece of art. People would look at them. But now we know the value of a Banksy. Like is someone going to try and steal the wall of the building so this is the point so there was that one in Peckham in December um last December Banksy sprayed something on a stop sign they were like aeroplanes on a stop sign oh got it um and that lasted that was on commercial road that lasted a few hours someone somewhere's got that in the house I hope they've got it oh no it'll be a rich person obviously either because the person that stole it will probably have sold it under the table i wonder how under the table big table they call it oh that's a shame but yes so something on

the wall yeah makes because my favorite banksy law which everyone will know is the painting that they sold and then shredded it yes and i do remember this and it was really divided opinions of like that what a stupid wasteful thing to do versus what a brilliant comment on like the art scene and like this inflated wealth and like art collection but they did keep it wasn't it shredded pieces and didn't the person like frame it shredded or something exactly i think once banksy's got their mitts on something like it does add that wealth and i do think banksy had banksy feels very of a time it was when the kind of billboards it felt subversive in that billboard age it was very it just felt disruptive in a way that I don't I don't think it does anymore it doesn't hit the same it's not as much because

I don't think we'd seen graffiti to that artistic degree it's a bit like the way in the last I don't know 10-15 years tattoos have really evolved from being like your traditional kind of sailor anchor to now like you see real artistry and I think we see that really commonly now in graffiti where it does it like a work of art whereas Banksy's when they first came about I think did really stick out because it would be next to like a quite bloated skull and then you'd have this like policeman kissing another policeman or whatever I do think they hold weight in that because we know because it's exciting to find out that it's banksy people have been saying that kate miller's banksy like the fun of banksy is the fact that also they're way more few and far between now it is exciting this isn't that interesting of him to have done like i feel like he could have

done something it does feel quite tame or like it's not that incendiary it's not that like controversial i suppose the point is uh yeah the leaves on the tree how do they not get caught well stencil work so i maybe they've got interns it's nice to resolve after this conversation and i was kind of looking at the news of this and like everyone went down there took like i said the stylist people took the kids like it's more of a kind of visual spectacle it's like in an accessible area it's not you know in a museum not museum art gallery things like that it's like it is accessible it's public can interact with it as graffiti as it gets painted over it gets whatever you know the preservation of it would just happen because he has celebrity which I do think complicates things as far as being like a kind of on the ground subversive anti-capitalist artist when you're

also like dealing in like big big money do you think it needs an explanation I mean obviously it does for me because I've got a fucking clue what it's well I kind of that's what I mean I'm like how powerful is it as much as you've got this thing where it's really accessible and you can see this work of art it's like is it actually that subversive anymore is it or is it just tree looks like it's got leaves on what would you do if Banksy did a painting on the side of your building do you know what I would I'd be quite excited and then I would be I think quite annoyed you could stand outside and charge people to have a polaroid with it but then I'd be you could be like I could be like you can't take a picture you could cordon

off of the road a profiteer I mean that's it because also you can't there's this reverence attached to banksy you could go right everyone's seen it now you've got your pictures i'm going to paint over it because obviously i don't want this yeah i saw not that they're all eyes you know but it is that one is really ugly like what didn't someone paint over banksy and it was absolutely uproar it was like a council or something painted yeah i think so i think it was maybe like during the referendum or something and he went back he was going to paint something different he went oh it's already been painted over and he made it part of the commentary um because that's the point of graffiti it gets interacted with by you know the local

statutes and stuff so like it becomes even more of what it is which is yeah social commentary I do love do you know what I don't think we see enough graffiti anymore I do remember when I lived in when I lived with my parents in some sense going to Bristol all the time it was always changing because like you said every single time they would do graffiti on a shutter the shutter thing got painted over and they did again it was really fun because every time you went you'd be like oh i wonder what's happened and everyone has their tags that they put on i feel like you don't see there's loads of graffiti in shortage like famously but is any of it new it's kind of like a fun thing bringing graffiti back yeah like some of it is political there was you know all eyes on

rafa and you know kind of um talking about the war in gaza and like which is yeah so that's obviously happening but the other like i don't really know but do you think we'll ever see another artist like banks you know like and that does that can captivate or get this level of fame and how do people not know i think it must be a team of people you must be right i think there must be a little like but how do they sell this they have they obviously must have an agent but like are they just on like independent talent like how are people contacting i don't know enough but like i just think when you get more famous as that like it kind of impinges your ability to move around freely to like create this without um kind of big fanfare and like maybe there was a time when you kind of go like a few weeks and

someone go oh my god you think that's a little banksy over there um although one of my favorite jokes on the internet is when people get like some real shit graffiti they go new banksy and it's just like the worst thing you've ever seen it's like someone saying like i pissed here on like a toilet door and you go banksy please do like you know dm's and tell us what you would do if it was on the side of your wall there was there was one of the tenants that lived there they were like great my rent's gonna go up loads and actually the landlord has said that they're not gonna up the rent but they said you know what if someone offered me millions and they can have the building and take all the flats with it feel free they can come

knocking if they want give me a number and an envelope and whoever has the biggest number they can have it i kind of think slay fair enough yeah i do love that he was like well just do this on a wall like nothing you do and someone's like buy the whole building yeah like there's people will get their hands on a banksy even if they've got to buy but i actually think now they were i actually can't imagine anyone wanting to buy that because it's like then what it doesn't actually like you've paid all that money for it someone could still paint over it yeah banksy do you know what Banksy would do knowing Banksy shred the building they'd pick yeah so smart

I'm so sorry yeah that was exactly what I was going to say if you want to go and see it it's on Hornsey Road in Islington. So we asked you on Instagram what you wanted us to talk about on this episode of the pod and B, you suggested that we talk about an article published in the New Statesman this week written by a friend of the podcast,ah manavis the title of the article is the return of 2010's feminism and any have you read this piece i have read it i loved it i couldn't agree more so in the piece she touches on some topics that we've touched on barbie the barbie

monologue trad wife movement kind of like the anti-feminism that we're seeing all around us at this point in time i think it's really interesting i read it i loved it i thought that i have been feeling this for quite a while i don't know if it was the pandemic that set us back i think that we did some really good movements towards understanding what grassroots activism is to understand what actually putting your money where your mouth is towards making changes that genuinely further cause are when we were in lockdown and especially after george floyd's murder i feel like there was a real shift then i think we came back out into the world and people were like oh actually it's quite nice to have stuff and do stuff and you know it hadn't stuck and i think that everyone

kind of forgot and i think what we're seeing more than ever now as well is this massive disparity in wealth where it's like they're saying at the minute isn't it uk is the second from the bottom in terms of like happiness and contentment worldwide and one of the biggest pre-casters for that i remember reading in a different book called utopia for realists by rocker breckman which said that countries with the biggest disparity in wealth have the worst mental health and perception of happiness across the board because if more people are really rich more people are really poor more people are unhappy than if say everyone was middling or even not having that much money but everyone was the same you generally have a country which is quite content the reason i bring this in terms of the feminism thing i wonder if it's like the people who and that includes us now who aren't

suffering diabolically badly in terms of like this economic crisis and the status that we're in don't have the energy not just us but everyone to be like that invested so we're having this really surface level feminism where it feels like we're doing the right thing because everything's really hard and it feels like walking through sludge as in yeah i think there is the reason perhaps we are looking at that or we're stuck in this kind of repackaged or like continuing the 2010s which is basically just it was buzzwords it was it felt very introductory to the mainstream it was beyonce and taylor swift and people going i am a feminist a lot of men said i am a feminist you know intersectionality we talked about like colorism talked about like the wage gap it was it was basic i guess if you were an intellectual

but it introduced it to the masses and it feels like there's been no next there's no implication that's it so it's like there's been no application of it so everyone's learn what feminism is everyone's understanding of different intersectionality is a privilege everyone's learn how to use that in a sentence it's a bit like the co-option of therapy speak where we all know what all of these words mean we know how to use them in a sentence but it's all theory right now nothing is practical yeah so i think what it was kind of hijacked maybe by commerce like commerce got its hands on feminism people realized that they could use feminism to sell products lifestyles yeah cop these ideas for profit and just completely yeah to kind of drag it backwards or kind of keep her at was like you could sell a hoodie

made in a sweatshop which says you know i'm a feminist yeah and no one was really having that or there was no real critical thinking about like maybe why we shouldn't do that why actually feminism is not your you don't hang your hat on it like make a buck but it does seem to getting worse for instance like this international women's day i didn't actually post anything new but i was like looking back on my old posts and every year i'd written something quite deep or i'd like try to talk about you know every year they have a theme but across instagram everyone's just posting happy international women's day and then just sharing pictures with their best friends and stuff right and it's like that's completely lost the meaning and it's

like we've almost become less political but more vocal so like everyone was engaging with international women's day maybe the people that hadn't say four or five years ago when it was a bit more politicized but it means because it's so mainstream it's become completely like meaningless meaningless yeah um in in the article sarah writes if we continue to talk so much about feminism but socially a sense of forward momentum without positive outcomes will be creative exactly what you're saying that we are we have all the buzzword buzzwords where everyone is willing to you know i'm a feminist but without actually um maybe not doing the work or kind of thinking a little beyond what that might mean maybe the problem is actually that

too many of us are identifying as feminists without the real groundwork that that requires and so that's the problem it's like back in the day people that were feminist feminism really meant something it was a word that people would recoil at it was something that people found quite disgusting it was something someone that had morals that weren't the mainstream and now in order to be right on and people to like you like people are asking on dating apps like I would never date a guy unless he's a feminist. So everyone's saying they're a feminist, but actually that means nothing anymore. So maybe it was kind of better

when it was only a small portion of people identifying as feminists because at least they were actually, you know, doing something about it. Doing something. They understood what it meant. And yes, to be willing to do the very unpopular thing, that's what makes someone a revolutionary.

I'm doing the thing that is hated and reviled for liberation and social progress. Whereas now as it's trendy i mean men especially have you know a lot of them have had a great time in claiming feminism and then using it as a veneer for abuse and all sorts of things so it is now it's that really sticky space it's been for a lot of women too it's like a shiny pink veneer over like actually just you know continuing to grind the gears of capitalism on the side of capitalism like the kind of girl bossery in there like and actually i don't the barbie speech i was going to reference that but actually that is sort of entry-level feminist if you think of it as like

an introduction for the actual young children and young women watching it i don't think it was like as terrible as all that but like that cannot be where we as adults who've been you know we we've probably both studied feminism at like you know university or like we've read the text we've been in this for decades that can't be like where we are collectively i agree and i always kind of hate that pushback against the barbie speech because when florence given wrote that book women don't know you pretty people were kind of an uproar because they were like this is so basic this has been said before you're just rehashing old old kind of feminist arguments and it's like actually though that for someone who's never had an introduction to feminism is massively useful so there is this level of like everyone has

an access point and there is always going to be utility in things being watered down and in things being digestible and easily consumable and actually being enticing so that you kind of every day you step up the rung of the ladder of your knowledge and by the time you get to the radical point you've been slowly kind of lubricated together yeah through various means but because obviously if you face someone with really radical ideas about whatever if that's your instruction very few people are going to go oh great yeah i'm going to go from thinking one thing to thinking this completely diametrically opposing thing like you need those barbie speeches and the yes slightly wishy-washy feminist books but i do agree that

there's this lean and thing is happening again where people were so critical of the cheryl sandberg of of organizations like the wing i'm sure if we'd been a podcast at the point when that the downfall of that, oh, my God, we would have had an absolute field day. Like the death of the girl boss was a cultural phenomenon in of itself. And now I see so many people that are big voices in female spaces talking about like how, I don't know, female investors aren't getting enough money but aren't talking about Palestine and it's like there is some kind of collapse here where the lean in feminism has taken I don't know I'm saying all of this to say also that I also don't feel like I'm doing enough but I also feel a bit lost I'm trying not to do the lean in thing but I also don't feel like I'm being radical in any way there's such a chasm between the rich and the poor I think it's quite exhausting for society where you're constantly feeling like even just by virtue of your existence you're oppressing someone else and so it's like I think we've got you know there

was like charity starts at home I think we've got a lot of issues that we've got to figure out on this little island even before we got to like bigger things but you're right I think maybe the problem is women are we think we can do everything feministically you know like and probably this is in the piece I'm probably ripping off but it's you know not everything is a feminist action you know you go to work you start a business you do this and this and this the problem is saying here's my business and it's feminist or like I'm a feminist boss I'm this I'm a feminist as a as a kind of vehicle to do something and I sort of hark back to the point about accessibility we always always you're completely right always need accessible feminism we need the text to be accessible but I think my query and my worry is

the issues of the future I guess the future time we're living in and the future to come are not the same issues that we had precisely in the 2010s like that's you know a decade and a half ago that that we were at this point like we're we've talked about this before like we're in this generative ai deep fakes we've got you know globally women are living in war zones like that we we need to catch up you know it's a real danger we do stay back with the buzzwords because uh feminism needs to be adaptive it needs to be useful as long as women need liberation and so i do think there's a danger of of just like mucking around in the shallows I agree and it's a comfort thing as well and I think that question you said then about you know do we have to frame everything as feminist is so so good and so pertinent and I got asked actually very often every time I do any kind of interview I did one about girlhood which I think

comes up in the piece with USA Today and I did something with Chloe Laws and they always frame things like do you think it's feminist if and I'm like I don't even think that question is relevant sometimes like not everything has to be framed about whether or not it's like to be someone who identifies the feminist I don't think it means that like every time you make a cup of tea it has to be feminist it's like some things you do maybe that's the issue maybe we shouldn't be identifying as feminist we should be like I'll make some feminist actions but you can't just be like by virtue the fact that I have a job that's a feminist job that's not any work done yet claiming feminism and another thing is i i think in this age of like misogynist shock jocks like

they've always been there but it feels like every time i open tiktok there's a new podcast basically about how much they hate women and maybe other maybe women and feminists are getting sucked into doing that like basic discourse to you know kind of have out with them and kind of to provide like an alternate and it just it feels exhausting it feels like every other day there's someone being like women shouldn't have rights or like there are no good women and women are then defending women and it just keeps us all mired in like the like the shit of it rather than actually doing any useful work well i also wonder if we're kind of rehashing or trying to re-identify the same arguments we've had before which has been like divide and conquer so women trying to win or

compete against men in order to get access to things that men do whatever but we see the raise rise in sort of people like andrew tate and in cell culture and men talking about how much they hate women because of this perceived power of women which has been created by this massive normalization of the use of the word feminism of women you know having powerful positions and i wonder if the radical change and people argue against this as well they're like well women shouldn't be having to do the work in order to make men understand that women aren't whatever maybe the radical change is going to be a wholly different approach to feminism where we almost park these these waves of feminism and we do a whole new thing whether that's like yeah i don't know introducing more men into the conversation or like i don't know what it is but obviously

it's that thing of you know keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect different results the first sign of craziness and i think that's what we're doing with feminism we're going like well that didn't work let's try this and we're going around in circles edging ever so slightly to a different result but ultimately ending back even more broken apart than yeah before because we have to I guess externalize it because as long as we all go well feminism is a journey between me and me it's like this only internal thing we will continue to miss the point it's this kind of external community effort of trying of getting it wrong of of listening to to different people and and it is yet in the action and i think as

long as we it is sloganized as long as we're having these little squabbles on the internet the anti-feminist does win the radicalness of what it used to mean doesn't actually exist anymore like how many times are we going through our days and and not taking the radical action i'd say it's like speaking myself 90 at the time yeah do you know i mean in my personal life not like as that as an example but just like you can't be bothered or like you're really tired and you know you can't bother to call that thing out or act the right way not that that's good but i'm just saying i wonder if we all need a wake-up call and like you almost shouldn't be allowed to say you're feminist unless you're actually yeah putting in the work and there's maybe like a preemptive fear and exhaustion of getting it

wrong and then like the call-outs and the kind of the infighting where like two perhaps white women of like same socioeconomic background are fighting with each other about who's the better feminist while you know you have like black revolutionaries and like people um on the streets doing the work and it's almost like farcical and it's quite interesting you like it feels like 20 years ago people were having more radical conversations or like then it does feel very backwards i mean we've done it with the trad wives it does feel like essentially we're saying like women we want women to be free and have bank accounts and we were going don't want that and it does make me feel bonkers cuckoo bananas i think that annoying this is this is the pendulum swing isn't it it's what we see time and time again in history you move 10 step forwards

five steps back 10 step forwards five steps back and and over the course it kind of course corrects but i definitely feel like we're in the beginning of a cycle that we've already yes cycled through and it's the breaking of the cycle and just like maybe just listening to best people maybe like if you're learning about your feminism from like an ad agency or if it feels like the solutions are really enjoyable maybe that is a sign that that way lies disaster I know I think the piece was great and I think it speaks to like a real point of frustration but like as we said earlier did it ever go away actually or have we just been building did we go far and then step back or have we always been in this place well I think what's stressing me out is I'm like what is the resolution like I read the piece I nodded

the whole way throughout I thought this is so true but then I want I want actionable answers it definitely made me wonder if I'm resting on my laurels but then I don't know collectively I guess we've all got to set up yeah and as Sarah says in the piece like we if we continue to talk so much about it like we get nowhere we are going to be on this hamster unless we step off so it's maybe just hoping that someone smarter than I you know has a has a better approach because this one ain't working thank you for joining us this week please do leave us a review if you haven't already it really helps us out and helps others to find the podcast which is our main goal in life tell your friends share on your instagram story write it into a newsletter put it in your diary put it in your diary tell your mom tell your mom we love you for it we'll

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