Everything Is Content - Bad Bunny's Haters, The Epstein Files &... Are WE Performative?

Episode Date: February 13, 2026

Hello EICruisers! This week on the pod we're all over the map of pop culture, discussing everything from Brooklyn Beckham's tattoo cover-ups to cancelled RHONY stars to Taylor Swift's Croydon music video to France's open letter "reminding" 29-year-olds to have babies.We also get deeper into the newly released batch of Epstein files and discuss the fallout so far, how we're choosing to consume this news and why nobody can seem to easily frame this story.There's also some soul-searching to be had as the three of us ask... are WE performative? One commenter thought so after last week's episode. No hate to them (promise!) but it did make us think... where has this insult come from and what does it actually mean?Beth's been loving Schitt's Creek and a dognapping drama, Ruchira's been loving Bad Bunny's Super Bowl Halftime Show and Oenone's been loving Industry and chatting to old men in Waterstones (more on her Substack here).Thanks so much for listening! If you've read this far could we pleeeeease be cheeky and ask for a rating, review or a share of the podcast on your socials? It really helps us grow and keep making EIC. Love you! O, R, BIn collaboration with Cue. Links:The Guardian - France's letter to 29-year olds to remind them to have babiesNasdaq - Ring Super Bowl Ad Promoting AI Pet Search Raises Privacy FearsHow to Survive the Broligarchy - We all live in Jeffrey Epstein's world by Carole Cadwalladr"Jmail" (Epstein Files Gmail mirror)Pod Save America The Guardian - So the Epstein scandal is about politics? Silly me for thinking it's about the mass abuse of women and girls. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth. I'm Ruchera and I'm Anoni. And this is Everything is Content, the podcast that delves into the biggest stories from the world of pop culture. We cover everything from tech and the internet to celeb gossip and influence a culture to award-winning cinema and questionable television.

We're the heart-shaped tealian balloon of pop culture floating through the clouds of discourse. This week on the podcast, we're discussing the Epstein Files and a post-truth world, how France is attempting to tackle low birth rates and what it means to be performative. Before we get into this week's topic, just a reminder that we are an independent podcast

and aside from listening, the most helpful thing that you can do to help us keep making it is to leave a review and a rating on Apple Podcasts or share us with a friend or on your social media. Thank you. You can also give us a follow on Instagram and TikTok at Everything is ContentPod

and make sure that you follow on your podcast player app so you never miss an episode. So, girlies, tell me, what have you both been loving this week? I have been in a kind of Schitt's Creek nostalgia hole after Catherine O'Hara at Sadi Pursaway. I just said I'm going to go and watch just the Fold in the Cheese episode because it's one of my favourite. It's one of my favourite mother-son moments between David and Moira Rose in Schitts Creek. Unfortunately, for my progress with my actual work, I've just continued to watch it.

And I'm finding it so comforting. I feel like I'm back in that, I guess like 2020 bubble where everything was uncertain, but what was steady and reliable was Shits Creek. So I'm that is most of what I've been loving this week. Were you both fans of this show? Have we discussed this before? Yeah, massive fan. And I do have it on my list because obviously I think it's been bumped up to the top of Netflix. I have been thinking about rewatching it. But there's so many episodes.

Yes, which is actually fantastic now because I was like, I'll just watch a little one. And now I started in series two, which I think is when the fold in the cheese, Fold in the Cheese, David, episode is. So I'm like, I am already on season three. That's embarrassing, isn't it? How many seasons are there? six, I think, and maybe a slightly short sixth season. So it's enough to be getting on with, considering, like, you both know,

I do have quite a lot of work at the moment. But it has become a bit of a side career for me. But that actually isn't what I have really been loving. Do you remember, maybe you both didn't see this. I posted on my story on Instagram about my favorite internet dog going missing. No, no. Albert. Oh, okay, so basically, I have been caught up in this scandal.

There's a very famous French internet dog owner, a duo called Cyril and Albert. And Albert's just like this funny, fat little pug. He just wants to eat human food. Like he comes tearing across the sofa all the time trying to eat his baguette. Very, very funny. Like has gone very, very viral many times. But then Albert was kidnapped. And I posted about this. I was like, I'm just devastated. And it was really hard for me to keep, I know. Because he's a pug. So apparently, like, is in quite demand for the kidnappers, dog mappers. I couldn't really keep up the case. I don't speak French. But like, I was translating things. There was third parties.

I was like, there was leads, there was the police involved. And then Albert was rescued. So I was like, fantastic, happy ending, you would think. It turns out the whole thing was a prank. He faked. Stop. Yeah. And I found this out last night and I was like, this absolutely no way.

This guy used to be a bit of a prankster, apparently. But then his audience got bigger and he was not really known for that. And so he was trying, he said he wasn't doing it for views. He just thought it would be funny. it got out of hand like it was on the news people were following long people were not all getting the joke and so he had to do this apology which had to be i had to find a google translation of it like it isn't funny but in the apology he's explaining some of the videos and why he thought people would catch on and he writes in the surveillance footage where it looked like albert was

kidnapped it wasn't even albert it was a sack of potatoes i was like i've been so hoodwings and it's really soured me not on albert but on his owner cyril i couldn't believe that. This was making me think of have either of you seen, I didn't actually follow her until this happened, but there's an Irish content creator called Sophie Murray whose mum's puppy got kidnapped. And it was like ages and ages ago, but every single

day she posts about it and it makes me so sad. And they're like, we just want them back. Like, we'll pay you money. And so someone, I feel like that is one of those ones where it's just not the right thing to do a prank on. And I think you should have learned that in like year seven. I feel like the beginning of secondary school is when you find out

what is prank worthy and what is actually just too close to the bone? Yeah. That's awful. Yeah, because it is one of the most painful. And like, someone who loves their dog would know, like, what is the worst thing that could happen? My relatively elderly pug being kidnapped.

I don't think it's fair enough to say, oh, I thought it would be funny. Like, it's not funny. There were people posting crying videos, saying, we've got to find this dog. People like lighting candles in church for Albert, who are now like, you have sinned. And, like, to put on a kind of critical hat,

I think it's quite a damning story about social media. as a career because you do think, I've got no boss, it's fine, but then your boss is the algorithm. And I think it can take you to really strange places where you forget yourself and you maybe can reason like, yeah, it's absolutely fine to fake the kidnapping of my dog because it's my job. Oh, yeah, the whole thing has just been, it's been a wild ride. Oh, my God. I have to say also, it's like, it's so important to have a sound check or like somebody to bounce an idea off.

Like the amount of times when I was a freelance writer, an editor would be like, let's soften that phrase or let's just like slightly tinker with that conclusion that you've done. And then reading it back, I was like, oh, wow, that was really quite bitchy what I just said. So thank God that they gave that feedback. But yeah, if you're your own content creator, I dread to think sometimes an idea might come in and you might just not realize that it's a fucking bad idea. I really want to talk about now the ring ad at the Super Bowl where they basically said that if you lose your dog, don't worry because our cameras are actually doing like facial recognition to whatever vicinity. So we're all part of the panopticon Like no one wants to be spied on But we're all spying on each other

I know it's awful But at the same time I mean I don't have a ring doorbell But at the same time it did make me think Maybe I won't because obviously you guys know That my biggest nightmare is something happened to Astrid But it's very bad Then you see the statistics on that

Because they were kind of going like We find one dog a day And you're like sorry you find 300-ish dogs a year It sounds amazing because you're like That is a dog a day But then you go right 300-ish dogs a year for all of these cameras For like

however many millions of dogs go missing, something's not adding up. I feel so cynical about it. Surely it's only the people that are inputting to search for their dog because surely the cameras aren't just like appropriate of nothing. Yeah, maybe. Finding missing dog posters and texting each other and being like, look out for this park. 300 dogs is not nothing.

I'm not going like, let them fend for themselves. But it is such a minuscule number versus it's kind of saying like, we're going to solve the problem. You aren't going to solve the problem, but you have very neatly. kind of shoehorned yourself into the conversation. It's like, we are the good guys. Oh, it all felt very black mirror. It's very black mirror. But isn't it funny how dogs are like the area, like the reason that the kidnapping the dog thing just isn't funny, like people and dogs. That's why obviously

Ring thought it was a really clever idea because beyond anything else, they could have said that their surveillance is used for. I mean like catching criminals or like whatever else. It's like finding missing dogs. It probably feels like quite safe territory. But it's received a lot of backlash, quite rightly. Richiea, what have you been loving this week? So literally on that note, my recommendation for this week or the thing I was obsessed with was Bad Bunny's performance at the Super Bowl. My God, I read the Guardian review of it, thought that, you know, I understood what had

gone down, watched the video and I was like, okay, there's no way to really feel how good this performance is without literally sitting down and watching every minute of it from beginning to end. It's so impeccable. It's so incredible the staging that they do. The amount of kind of love to Puerto Rico that shines through all the kind of like nods to Latin American culture. I just thought it was such a generous performance because I thought it was so grounded in culture. It wasn't really about Bad Bunny himself, even though this is like a victory lap of a, you know, pinnacle of being an artist that can perform. There was that bit where two people get married and he's performing at the wedding. So he's not even

centering himself, it's these two people, he's just performing. There's a bit with him, the little TV, the kind of sofa with a family watching him doing his Grammy speech that we referenced last week. And he jumps out and then gives the little boy his Grammy. It's all just about like other people and it's not centering himself. And I found it so moving. I've seen some, my favorite one is like the wedding with the little thing with the boy sleeping on the chairs. Then he gets up and it's so sweet. And also everyone just calling it like the Benito Bowl. Oh my God. Yeah. And it was so so beautiful and it was so lovely everyone was obviously up in arms before during and after kind of of being like this is not the place for politics you go like politics where like watch this again

do you know who i was this will interest the rony fans jill zaren posted an ogy real housewives of new york housewife she posted a video vile video like won't quote it directly but like was very much like i think i speak for everyone when i say this is awful like not a white person in sight this is not who we are she and some of the other ogs are coming back for like another series on E, she has been fired because, I think, because directly because of this, because she said these kind of, like, heinous things. And it was a real fuck around and find out. I was like, what a, what a vile thing to say? Like, she was like, what is what everyone is thinking is what half the country is thinking? And you're like, it's not. You are delusional.

You are so, like, in the fog of hate. And so I think watching that, I think I watched her video first. And I was like, what earth am we going to see? And then, of course, saw this, like, beautiful celebration of culture and love. And like, the message literally was like, love is bigger than hate we have to leave with love and you're like imagine seeing that and being like i am very cross this is not what we stand for it's like what fucking should be you're the problem it literally is like you are the problem if that's what you're saying like take a look in the mirror and i will say as well i keep forgetting this and i need to remember because i can get really caught up in real housewives being this fun enterprise but the reason roney the original cast most of them got

fired and it got cancelled and they had to reboot it and now ease doing this like offshoot version is because so many of them were such heinous people, such racist, offensive, deeply like xenophobic people that they could not air them. And, you know, it's a very low bar for reality TV for what people can be aired on TV. So I think that does say something. But anyway, what about you and only?

What have you been loving this week? Sorry, I'm so out of the real housewife's week that I just kind of had to sit there and enjoy you two popping off. I have been loving. I won't go into it too much because industry, if you haven't watched it, you just need to watch. I have to say this season, I'm really feeling the pressure of not understanding what I know them do for work. I know you're watching Ritcher. Do you not think

this is the worst one in terms of like genuinely being clueless but also being very stressed? Yeah, I don't understand what Harper is up to half the time and what she's on about. I don't know. I have no idea, but she looks fucking amazing and she is so goddamn good and God it's dark. And everyone, I was with some friends over the weekend and one of our friends hadn't watched industry and we were like, you need to start from season one. I think it's going to go down in history as one of the best shows. Beth, I can't remember. Have you started this series? Yes, I actually think I'm, apart from one, apart from this Sunday's episode, I think I'm all caught up. So I am, I do know, I miss the peer point sales law, whatever it's called.

I kind of like when they're just talking in numbers and it's all going, and I can kind of see things going red and green. So I'm like, okay, good things. Oh, bad things. All good things. This is like everyone splintered into different evil capitalist enterprises. And I am struggling as much as I love this series. And I think the cast amazing. I'm struggling to keep up a little bit.

I do get that. I kind of miss them all being in the same environment. It does make me, I don't know why, it makes me feel a bit sad that they've all got disparate things which are kind of connected through this thread of tender. I kind of just wish they were in a room together just being mean again. I really miss Harry Laughty, I have to say. Yeah, definitely. The next second thing I'm kind of enjoying, but actually, I'm not really,

I kind of been putting it on so that I can scroll X, which will get on too late because I'm just in a scroll hole. So I've been watching season three of the diplomat, which I spoke to you guys about before. Oh, yeah. I won't go into it again because I don't actually concentrate that much when I watch it, but it's like you can have it on. So the third thing that I really want to recommend is not so much something you can consume, but something you can do. And I can't remember if I brought this up when it happened, but I wrote about it in my sub-stack last week about how I met these old men in Waterstones and Chathes and Frasier's, they're amazing. Last weekend, I was on the train to see a school friend and this man sat next to me and all these conversations always start admittedly because I have Astrid with me.

So they start talking about Astrid. he started to show me pictures of his dog then he was showing me pictures of his granddaughter and every time I looked over he was just staring at this picture as granddaughter and it was honestly making me want to week like he was just staring at his phone somehow we got on to talking about the news the next thing we know talking about the Epstein files

he was a retired lawyer for years and that had just had such interesting insights on like everything that was going on in the files everything to do with like society and culture he was talking about like how his daughters are so opinionated and like the importance of women having a voice and how even though he loved his law career like the best thing he ever did was being a

dad and he must have been maybe like in his late 50s or 60s and I don't know why this keeps happening to me with like white man but it's actually really life affirming to have and I think in a moment of crisis when the country feels like it's in crisis it was a pack train as well everyone was standing around us and we were having at moments I kind of became self-aware and realized like what we were talking about because we were going really in depth and kind of like having a really impassioned conversation I just keep having these conversations which because I'm so deep on the internet and so entrenched in the conversations we have, which are more often than not about the ways that like men and women are so divided and like older generations of this and that.

It's really nice sometimes and it is easier if you have a dog, I have to say, but it's sometimes really nice to talk to real people in the real world. Because if there's one thing that's going to bring us together, it is this impending doom of World War III. Oh, God. That's so hope core. And this has been happening to me for years. I don't have a dog.

Maybe it's because I'm carrying a book or maybe I don't know. But often people will strike up conversation. And it is very often older men who are really just not at all on tours, but just really chatty and do want to get into it. And I've had some of the nice, like I remember going to Edinburgh years ago. I was going on a little solo trip and like, you know when you earmark the train journey to just like sit and think? And then this man was chatting to me. I was kind of five minutes. I was like, oh, for goodness sake.

And then I was like, we talked all the way to Newcast. And I went, this is so lovely. I'm so glad that I entertained it. I'm so glad that we did this. And it was very much like, good luck to you and have a wonderful time. And just it is the nicest thing. I think it is, you're right. is the antidote to this I spend all day on the internet and I think everyone is a beast

apart from the people I already know and like and it's not true there is so much goodwill and like just goodness in people and you have to go out in the world I think I message this to you and only afterwards I was like you have to go out into the world to have these moments like they cannot happen from your phone you know you have a nice interaction you have to go into the world and be in the world and be willing oh that's so nice that is so nice but I'm the same I have my books you know I'm bloody reading this long book and he started talking about and I thought, shit, this is the end. And then when we got off the train, I literally didn't want to leave him

because I was changing it ready. And so was he and we were like, he was like, where are you going next? And then, oh, I forgot to tell you both. A girl, so we were about to say goodbye. He was so sweet. And then this girl ran up, she went, oh, my God, I love the podcast. What? And gave me a massive hug.

And then I was like waving to him behind her back. And he was waving to me. And I was like, oh, my God, he's gone. I didn't even know his name. But yeah, these things do happen to be as well, Beth. I think also because we're both prime for it. Like, we absolutely love a, I love a chat. But it is funny how much like also I kept having to lower my register because I realized that people on the train were looking like, why are you two talking to each other?

That's their problem. But I do agree with you. I feel like it's that thing where sometimes I feel like the dread of having a conversation with somebody next to me with them. When it happens, it's so nice. And I kind of wish I could get myself not to have that dread because I don't really love that about myself. I think it's easy to basically just overthink that moment. And I, like I learn solo. traveling to just sort of have very low stakes interactions with people all the time so you just compliment someone and like I would I would choose kind of like women in my own age or older men and women to just say something nice to and so often you'll end up having like a little microdose of a long conversation with someone at bus stop or but it definitely takes practice I also can't help but because I do have these inbuilt prejudice about what these men might think I was getting quite worried when we were getting on to the conversation of because I think he said something

like my daughter's a very opinionation and I was like oh god is he going to go down the route of and then I've been, every time I've been really surprised, like I put in my substack, like the adults are all right. Oh, that is a really nice, that's a really nice message to leave on where it's like, maybe we shouldn't be predicting what people are going to say and expecting the worst. Yeah. Maybe it is actually the kids that are all right. It's more and more like what it's seeming like. We need to do outreach to Gen Alpha. No, we mustn't actually because their children. We can't talk to them on the train. Oh, no. Abandoned, give them a few years and then What do you guys are all right?

So there's been so many headlines and news stories this week that I've been desperate to get into you guys with because obviously we did the episode on Stephen Bartlett saying should society intervene with all these men who aren't able to pass on their jeans. And it felt like such a silly thing to say. And then since then it's like I keep getting these little pings of notifications of every country actually kind of falling into step and being like women, you actually do need to be getting pregnant. So the first thing I heard was that in Hungary they're giving tax relief to mothers. of three. And then they're changing that to actually, I think mothers over 40 have more than two children are also getting complete personal tax release. They don't have to pay any tax.

That was like one incentive. And then just a couple of days ago, there was a new thing saying that France has written an open letter to 29-year-olds, basically telling them to have babies before it's too late, which I found quite offensive as someone who's almost 32, 29. I wanted to see if you guys had been seeing this and how it's making you feel. I did see the thing about France. I didn't see the thing about Hungary. Also, the idea of an open letter being the thing that would make me have a child is so funny to me. It's like, honey, do what Hungary is doing. Give me an actual incentive. This open letter, this dear Richard is going to do fuck all for me. Yeah, because they're framing it very much. I don't think they've chosen the wording of the letter and they're being very clear. Like, this is going out to all 29-year-olds across gender. But obviously, like, that's going to be received very differently as a woman or as a person that would carry the baby. And I think the messaging is intended to be really like informative of like as you get older, these your fertility risks. This doubles and this triples.

And I think it ends on maybe like information about they've written on the website, gamete preservation. So I'm guessing, what is that? Freezing your eggs or something along those lines. I think it's like freezing. Yeah. Yeah. So it's informative.

But I think that just feels like a cloak because it will still feel very alarming because it doesn't address. Like it doesn't really address why people aren't having babies. people have put it off, they say like by another five years, so into their 30s. It's like, we probably already know. If someone's made that decision, they probably already know every statistic about fertility. If they are someone that's interested in having children, it just feels like, I would just be pissed off if they weren't like, and here's a check. I also, something popped up to me. It was from like 10 weeks ago, so I didn't see it at the time, but it was

Ben Stiller on a podcast where they were having kind of the exact same conversation as the Stephen Bartlett one. Did either have you seen this? No, I've not even heard of this. No, I've only seen the Jason Bateman for a year bowl. Oh yeah, the Jason Bateman with Charlie XX that being said,

oh, I don't want to be an apologist. But he has got a right sense of you. Did you think he was joking? So for context listeners who haven't seen, Charlie XX was on a podcast

with Jason Bateman and she said to him I really don't want to have children and he was like, oh, are you sure? Because when I met my wife she really didn't want to have kids and then she met me

and we ended up having kids and Charlie goes, well, I'm married and then Jason Bateman, it's funnier when you listen and he goes, oh, okay, well, maybe the next guy. Like I didn't, I thought it was a bit of like, I kind of thought it was okay, but I understand how you can frame it as, you know, this nefarious agenda.

Having listened to it, I changed my mind on how much of foible it was because you do have to listen to it. And I think there were, it was immediately a headline of like Charlie X. Claps back at Jason Bainment. And the wording of it was like, no, this is, these are two people having a conversation. These are two people at different stages of life, but who I'm presuming are not great pals, getting to know each other and sharing the points for you. in actually a really chill way. So I was sucked him by the headlines, listen to it. And I thought he isn't really a part of that.

He's not trying to tradwife her. He was just sort of having a conversation. And yes, probably that was informed by his age and his own position. It is still kind of a bit of a leap for a lot of men to really reconcile. Like, oh, some women really don't want children or really are not in that place. So I felt better after listening. Yeah, all I saw was the headlines around it. And I haven't listened to the interviews.

So I really thought, holy shit, Jason Bateman is suddenly in the cancelled pile. But I guess it really shows that you really can't take lines from a podcast to make them headlines without just completely losing every single piece of context. Yeah, I totally agree. But that, well, actually, so that's the other thing. The clip I saw was with Professor Scott Galloway.

I don't know if you guys know him. He's an NYU professor and serial entrepreneur. He was the one that I saw on this podcast with Ben Stiller. And Ben Stiller's not saying anything, but basically what this professor is saying is really similar to what Stephen Bartlett was saying, which is that he was saying how men date downwards, horizontally, upwards. He said that if Beyonce worked for McDonald's, she could still date Jay-Z.

But for a man, it's like if you're on a lower income, like women just aren't going to date you. And it's so simplified. And it's also just kind of erasing so much of the conversation, but basically saying that because men are broke, women won't want to date them. And I think he was throwing some statistics in there, like 80% of women become mothers and 40% of men. I've just made that up. But it was something that I was like, how does that even add up? I don't even know how that makes sense.

And also, it's funny because you can kind of back it up on statistics. You can put all of the blame on women. But once again, we are asking, please, we can tell you why. If you ask any woman, why are we not having children? There's a million reasons we can give you. So I was going to say that he's just come out with a book called Notes on Being a Man. And when a few weeks ago, I was talking about this whole masculinity crisis breeding a whole generation of grifters who are trying to answer that question.

but it's like so disingenuous and it's so just kind of parroting really offensive, really problematic, very damaging shit about what makes a man, what makes a woman. He's one of those people in my opinion and I listened to a really good analysis of his book that basically was just exactly as you said, parroting really just stupid, foolish nonsense, not even kind of progressive ideas of masculinity or kind of seeing women as equals, just like real gender norm shit. Is it just illegal to have women in? conversations about women.

Like these, something is going on in the podcast circuit where they must have a little roller decks of women's names and they've lost it because they just seem to so rarely get the call up. Even just like a third participant to be like, hey, person that might carry this baby that you desperately need to be in the world. Here's my perspective. Absolutely infuriating. I hate when certain beloved actors, even if they aren't the ones in the conversation,

do this kind of like, because they want to be on the podcast circuit anywhere. Everyone's diversifying there. Acting's not enough for anyone. You have to be also like a lingerie owner and a podcaster when they sort of like trash a lot of their goodwill by having these conversations. And it makes me mad. So I really like Ben Stella.

Speaking of headlines, speaking of pregnancies, Molly May. We have to talk about Molly May. Obviously she put a video up on social media and confirmed that she's pregnant with her second child with Tommy Fury. And firstly, I haven't actually seen much of the commentary around this. But what did you think, have you seen any kind of fan responses to it? Because I'm very curious. I don't know whether it's just my social media,

but I've seen so many neggy and cruel responses, both on TikTok and on X, where people are saying, well, she complained so much about the first one. I think there's two strains of this. One, she complained so much about the first. You know, she's been very open about the difficulties of motherhood, not having much fun and being alone when she had a newborn and how difficult that was.

She's been very, very open about it. but she has never said I hate my child. Like it's very obvious she loves such a child very much. And the other one is being like, well, you've obviously just had a baby with him to keep him. He won't stay. And it's so ignorant of the story. Like I know a lot more about Molly Mae than really I thought I did. But one, she's been very open about it.

But so have many mothers. And you'd imagine you have a child for a few years. You get it down. You get better at it. She has only been a mother for, I don't know how old Bambi is, two or three years. But you'd imagine like that experience. She is very much in a right mind to be like, okay, we're going to do this again. Like that is very much the story of a lot.

of first-time moms, it's difficult. They learn, they happily have more children. And also Tommy Fury, like, very publicly, he said, they both said he had an issue with alcohol, that issue's been taken care of, we're back together. Is that not what we are hoping for, for families that can get back together, that can make good to happen?

Like, to me, this was a no-nonsense feel-good story, but people were really snarky. As you both know, I don't really keep up with Molly Mae. So someone put it in the group putting M-M's that I thought was Megamarkle since then, have discovered it was about Molly. what you were saying Beth, I think is so true about how, you know, as you get into parenting, it gets easier. But I also read on this a really good reaction. I'll find it and put in the show notes. A woman wrote a reaction to Jamila Jamil's substack a while ago where Jamila Jamil really outlines why she doesn't want children.

And this woman said, as a mother, I cannot explain to you what you realize. And you can never experience it until you do it, that two things are coexisting constantly, which is like disgust and despair and then like the most love you ever felt. And she was like, it's not a yo-yoing between the two. It's those things. in constant tandem. And I've read so many interesting, I think my substack is like feeding me them now, but really interesting takes on motherhood. And even these women who are like,

I love being a mom. It's the best thing I've ever done at the same time. It's the hardest thing you'll ever do, blah, blah, blah. It feels interesting that when Molly May said it, it was met with such anger. And I wonder if that is just her positioning in the culture as this sort of like sweet, clean girl, aesthetic, very rich, people very much feel like they've had a handle

in her success, which they have. maybe it's because it somewhat dismantles this idea that money can buy you happiness. Money obviously can buy a hell of a lot of happiness. We know that. But it doesn't mean that it completely absolves you of all pain. And maybe somewhere to some people that's frustrating because we have the belief if we could just be rich enough, we could just have that thing, then everything would be easier. Because it's interesting when you read more rightly women writing about motherhood as a very complex,

difficult thing. Everyone's like, yes, what an incredible piece of writing. But when Molly May said it, everyone was very cross. I had a really, I think it's a very unique experience the other night regarding Molly May. So I was at dinner with a friend of my partners. And she didn't know who Molly May was. So I had the unique experience of explaining Molly May because what I was doing what we do, even if I'm not keeping up with Molly May, some things are getting in. So I was like, oh, actually how do I explain? Molly May, I went very hard on, well, she's sort of like Queen of the And it was, it was just a very interesting exercise. It was though I was discussing Molly May with like a different species. I was like, this was like a very cultured, well-rounded person. And I was like,

oh my God, there is a life out there where you can go 30 something years and not know who Molly is. And I was like, God, in a different life, that was me. Not this one though. So there's this amazing interview during the round. So I don't know if either of you seen it, but it's Anna Wintel and Chloe Mal and the interviewer says to Chloe initially, what would you do if you had Vogue's budget from the 90s? Immediately she got. that's really illuminated and animated. She's like, oh my God, well, the first thing I would do is I'd build a podcast studio. I'd pay everyone 30% more.

I would put more people on the social media team because those people are working so hard. She's like so excited. And you zoom out and you see Anna Wintel's face and she looks like Miranda Peasley, kind of doing that sucking her mouth thing. And then Anna Wintel goes, just to say, I want to make it clear that Vogue has a very healthy budget. And everyone's retweeting it like the difference between like the old guard and the new God and it was just so fascinating to watch and everyone needs to go and watch the clip because it honestly is like devil wears Prada and just the difference between these two women is so

funny and you can just tell that I mean I would love to have seen what unraveled after that like if Anna Wintel said anything but oh it was good fodder and it made me very excited for devil wears Prada too I have not seen that but that is just like catnip to me I love that kind of stuff I'm going to go search it immediately. Also, I will say having freelance for Vogue previously, I think that budget could do with a bit of a top up personally. Yeah, precisely. Do you know what? Whenever I imagine Anna Anna Wintra on my head, my brain does imagine what, oh, Miranda Priestley, Merrill Street. Yeah, but what, Merrill Street. God, that was a really frightening moment. You were going to have to explain who Murrell Street was to me. Because I think there's, I'm so out of the fashion loop. I do just

think that's her. I am quite excited for the film, though. As many people as I've seen being like, God, it looks like it's lit on a, it's like a YouTube channel. This looks shit. The fashion looks shit. I'm like, yes. And I'm, I'm sad. Quickly on films coming out, actually, we should flag that we will be covering Wuthering Heights the week that it comes out. And I just actually quickly on that before we, because I said to my boyfriend, who I announced last week, is that we have to go and see Wuthering Heights. I don't think he can be called. I'm going to have to say partner because he's too old to be a boyfriend. We're going to have to go see Wuthering Heights. And he literally just texts me a minute ago being like, Like, do we have to, it's got so many one-star reviews.

And then I was like, there's loads of five-star reviews as well. But the review system, even Sean Faye did a story earlier today being like, the way that people are reviewing Wuthering Heights is making me not trust critics anymore because it is across the board, it's a one or it's a five. I think maybe as part of next week's talk, we can select some of the worst, most acerbic lines of those reviews because they are, they're cutting me and I have nothing to do with this film. Yeah, because I'm not reading any reviews, but I'm reading the headlines of reviews. And there was one saying this is Emerald Fennell's most ridiculous film and also her best.

And I'm like, I need to see this. Because it will be out. It's out today. I mean, today is time of release? Is Valentine's Day not Saturday? Oh, it's out on Galentine's Day, isn't it? Lowell. Friday the 13th.

That's the big joke about it. Oh, yes, it's out today. So girlies, go and see it. Oh, that's so exciting. Yeah, I saw that review. I also am trying not to read them. But yes, she was like this is like the worst film Emerald's ever made and also amazing. So you know me. I'm a Saltburn

An Apologist. That was our first ever episode with Saltburn, wasn't it? Oh, full circle. And I lived with it and everyone was calling that vibes based. And I was like, honey, I'm here for the vibes. It turns out that is what I want in cinema sometimes. I just want the looks. Speaking of films, Amelia de Moldenberg, will star on a film that is about,

that's sort of like chicken shop date, the movie. Yeah. Do you know what it sounded like was? What was that book about the comedian that we all loved, the comedy writer. Romantic comedy, Curtis Sittenfield. Yes, that's kind of what the plot sounded a bit like to me. So it's a woman who's basically Amelia who hosts like a chicken shop day

and then she meets a famous celebrity and it kind of derails her. People are like, oh my God, it's because her and Andrew Garfield never got together. She's like, and then people have resurfaced the clip where she says to Paul Muskell, I've got a script for something. And everyone at the time thought it was jokes that I've got a script for a feature film. I'm the lead character. Obviously, I'm just looking for the male love interest. And she gives him a jokey script.

But everyone's like, it's an Easter egg. Do you know, I was trying to think of Andrew Garfield's name then. I'm so glad you said it because I was like, Andrew Lloyd Weber, was it him? Very different men. Beth, are you okay? Today, I don't know. Is there a gas leak in here? Please tell me that Andrew Lloyd Weber is not on your list. Oh, please. I can confirm he is not on the list. No, I don't think I've got any updates for that. If we ever do a live event, we should do a Beth's crush bingo and it has like all of your bizarre crushes and random people. Then you have to keep listing who you're, crushes out and that's the way it's done. But I'm going out with someone who's very handsome now. Like his face is not weird at all. Who'd have fun care? I can't confirm. But have you ever gone out with an ugly man?

No, no offense. No, I don't know why that's very. I think I've gone out with a real smorgasbord of people. But obviously I would be like, fantastic, gorgeous. Who knows? Other people might have been like, wow, he's an interesting choice. Andrew Lloyd Webber. Yeah, I had this realization once, but I obviously think all of my exes are really handsome.

And I had like an out-to-briot experience. I said, oh my God. What if other people don't think they're handsome? But I know this actually, because when I look at some of my friends' hinges, I'm like, wow, we have lived such different lives and we see through such different eyes. Also, I will say, you'll know if people think any of the people you've dated are not attractive because they'll tell you the minute you break up with them. I've had that.

I did have once a message from someone when I was with my Axi's ago going, how did you get to be such a conventionally attractive man? So they thought that I was like it. And I know. And they were really sincerely being like, I just wanted to. understand like and then I was like oh my god I'm ugly baby but do not hear send on that message obviously I can't believe it I know it's so funny

oh sorry I was going to say I have disqualified Barry Keone from my crush list because he was on their post saltburn and obviously pre-Sabrina that sallied him for me post-Sabrina anyway but have you seen the latest picks with his hair from the Beatles bar pick all of them that I've seen so far like Paul Mascar has his little his little wig on all the boys are looking They're looking interesting. That is funny, isn't it? Because the Beatles, but people were throwing their knickers at the Beatles, I imagine.

But the Beatles, they're not, are they hot? John Lennon, I suppose. It's different times, different. I think it's all different times and different tastes. But yeah, I do look back and I go, what was going on there? Certainly not looks maxing. Looks minimising. Does that mean?

This is what people are going to take out of context of our podcast. We're going to be Ben's Diller next week. People will be like, those horrible. cows. So I don't know why I'm going to put myself this position again. I'm going to mention Taylor Swift. But she has just released her new music video for Opelight, which is my favorite song on her Life for Sugar album. And basically what features in, I think one, it was filmed in the Wickgift Center in Croydon. I think that's right. And also it features. Yeah, Croydon of all. And it features everyone that was on the panel with her on Graham Norton. so that Lewis Capaldi,

Killeem Murphy, who has a very small part. You can tell he was like, oh, for fuck sake, I'll do it. He never wants to be anywhere. And a few other people. Greta Lee. Greta Lee, oh, she looks gorgeous in it. Donald Gleason, there's another big one.

And Graham Norton himself as well. And it's just very funny. I think I love the Graham Norton show. It's this kind of mixer for the most unlikely celebrities like June Brown, EG dot com and Lady Gaga were just like fawning over each other years ago, obviously RIP June. amazing combination.

They were both like, I'm such a big fan of yours. Dame Judy Dent, saying that she'd never been in the club. Do you remember this moment where she's like, I've never been to a club in my life? And then Graham gets his face on. He's like, Judy Dent, you lie like a rug, which is a hilarious line. And she's like, oh, and he's like, I saw you in heaven. And it's just a really, there are so many funny moments. She's like, oh, yes, of course.

And I just think it's the most brilliant show for this kind of thing. And I really enjoyed the music video. But was quite interested in the fact that since YouTube and Billboard have had they're falling out where Billboard is basically not counting YouTube views as high in terms of rankings. Oh, wow. This shows, like she's released it on Spotify and Apple Music premium. So basically, she has been the first, I'm sure, of many to pivot to these things so that they don't waste their debut on YouTube because now it's not as easy for them to get.

It's not like a pathway to a Billboard hit. So I'm just finding the whole thing very interesting kind of watching before my eyes as they kind of like change the rankings with things. Like a YouTube debut was sort of, I remember waiting for that Vivo logo for like Miley Cyrus's. I forget the song name, but like her music video was, you would wait on YouTube and hit refresh. And I feel like these days are maybe coming to an end. Yeah. Also, the Graham Norton show has spurned so many like unlikely friendships off the back of this.

So it's been saying like all of the friendships. But also on celebrity couplings, we obviously need to mention that Kim Kardashian is going out with Lewis Hamilton. Yeah. This was, I think listeners can't see our faces. but there was a real mix of like, okay. I think nothing would surprise me about Kim Kardashian. She could be going out with like Phil Mitchell or like an actor or like just anyone. I would be like, okay, fair enough.

I think they seem quite well suited. The thing that I sent this to both of you because I was really confused. I don't remember and I haven't fact check. Probably should have done was someone was saying that Kendall used to get with Lewis. I, so I pride myself. No, actually I don't pride myself. I actively don't pride myself. I'm in a fact check.

On knowing so many things about this family. And I have never known that about Pendle Gennar. So part of me is like bullshit police about that. So please do fact check. Because she did go out with bad bunny. So people were saying, oh, she's standing behind her ex, Lewis, who's going out of her sister and watching her other ex perform at the Super Bowl. And I was like, well, I know one of these things.

I don't keep up with her so much. She just seems like, and I mean this as a compliment, quite dull in terms of celebrity. She is, she shows up, she serves a little face. She looks beautiful and she goes home. And I'm meaning that as a compliment. I don't think she plays the game quite as well as the others. Can I check how you mean that as a compliment because I'm not really getting it? I basically mean I think she has decided that she will not be tabloid fodder.

She will work hard at her modelling jobs. But she's never really, I mean, even as a model, Kylie does a more sensational job. Not to say she does a bad job. She certainly does a better job than me. But I think she is, in my mind, I've sort of gone beautiful women that I don't really know much about and I'm not intrigued by. Kim Kardashian still has me by the throat. Kylie has me two hands on the throat.

I really care what she gets up to. Kendall, no. Is that rude? No, it's true. Are we just rude today? I think she is the most stylish though. Like, I love her house. Okay, sorry, last for me on the celebrity spotting front,

but we obviously spoke about the book from Beckham Vue. I can't believe how much to just fall on the floor like a sack of potatoes. The spice whales were going from strength to strength. Cruise had them all around the table being like, should I use them as my opener? He had the four spice girls around the kitchen table. they're all singing, he's playing guitar. The beckons are just posting constantly.

Like really, that statement landed, it exploded, everyone reported on it and then everything's gone back to normal, if anything, weirdly with kind of some people siding very strongly with Victoria and David. Since then, Brooklyn had a tattoo, I think that said dad on his hand, and then he had all of his siblings' names along the outside edge of his fingers. And he has had his dad tattoo covered up. And then he's also had black lines, including Harper's name. So he had Harper, Romeo Cruz.

covered them up and this has been seen in like a series of Papp's shots with him and Nicola. And I have to say that to me is almost like the what I actually felt like heartbroken and also at the same time is like oh my God, maybe I want to get my niece's names. They were really cool, the ones on his fingers of his siblings kind of want to copy that. What is Harper done? I think she's like 14 years old. So you kind of feel like give her a few years to make her to kind of really be in or out on him. Like it reminds me of that it was a meme from years of ago where it was a kind of joking meme where someone had blurred out all the faces of a group and been like blurred out the fakes and they'd also blurt out the dog and someone was like, what was

the dog done or the baby or something like that? I kind of feel like this is it like what's Harper done? Not my business, but obviously I'm dying to know. I'm so in on this story. Like the fact is none of these people are ever going to opt out of being famous, I don't think. So basically as long as we're alive and they're alive, we will be waiting for more information. They have me hooked, lined and sinkered. Is having an opinion performative now? We got an interesting message last week and we wanted to share it and start a discussion

over what performative actually means in 2026. So the message goes, while you might not have personally participated in the recent slandering of Taylor as a tradwife, Maga, since most folks stayed silent, that allowed its normalisation. Now, the same discourse is being weaponised against Olivia Dean because everyone gave it a free pass

because they hated Taylor Swift. There is permission from the more liberal quarters to be openly misogynistic about her. I think you all are performative. Just because you think you know enough to comment on our politics doesn't mean you actually do. And the message got us thinking,

what does it actually mean to be performative and why has that become almost the catch-all term for everyone at the end of last year and this year? It kind of seems like that's become the offensive term de jour. What do you guys think? What do you count as performative and are we performative? I really went back and forth on this because it is one of those words which you think you know what it means and then you really sit with it and you're like, well then I must be performative. Like we are on a podcast. There is something of the performance here.

We are outlining our views in a way that is meant to kindle discussion and be very clear and concise and perhaps entertaining. So I was like, well, perhaps this is not as mean of an insult as it first appeared. Maybe I can happily wear the badge of this is performative, but it's not fake. I think that's where my line is. It does performative mean that you are telling a lie about something. Does it mean that it is obscuring what you really think? Because then I would have a problem with this as a critique. Yeah, I think what's so interesting is, first of all,

excited to have such engaged listeners from the US. We don't always hear from our American listeners because on Apple podcast reviews, they only aggregate the UK reviews. So we don't actually know if you are from abroad, from overseas, please do send us your thoughts and feelings. Nice ones preferred. Yeah, I thought it's interesting because obviously everyone forms an opinion with a background of bias. It's really, really difficult to have a totally objective opinion.

You are bringing all of the information that you know, everything that you've experienced. I think for us, our opinion on Taylor Swift is actually formed with quite a lot of groundwork that we've done, looking into popular culture, looking into the way that female celebrity is treated. And if you're coming from a place of your bias is, you know, undying fandom of Taylor Swift, why not to get daggers out would say that's slightly actually more performative because your opinion might not engage as critically. And we're not criticising Taylor for fun. If anything, every time we say, should we cut this out because we do receive probably the most sort of outrage when we do critique her. But the reason that she is, you know, someone that

perhaps does receive criticism is very much because she is of such a level with such great fandom, such great wealth. That is kind of the very thing that we're, critiquing rather than her. It's the way that that insulates her. So I thought it was quite interesting. And I do find fandoms and stuff interesting because I don't know if there is anyone, but maybe there is, because it does make me check myself, but I even check myself in that episode about Taylor where I was like, am I part of this? And we highlighted that she obviously faces undue misogyny. But I don't think we are performative because I'm not saying anything for the sake of it making me sound clever, certainly not to do Taylor Swift. Probably

on some other political topics. I'm definitely chucking in a word there that I think might be some brownie points. When we got this message, and particularly the word performative, it might seem bizarre that we're really honing in on it. But I do think there is something about that word and it is such a interesting use of it just more generally. Obviously, the last year we saw performative males, we saw performative reading. It just feels like for some reason, something about authenticity is out and performativity is in and it's the new way to kind of catch somebody out because they're performing as one thing. It's this insincerity. So I wonder, with that being used for us, the idea that we're putting out these opinions about American politics,

we're putting out these opinions about ICE, about Taylor Swift, but behind closed doors, maybe we don't actually believe them that deeply. We're doing it for brownie points. I don't necessarily think that's true because we could very easily just do a pop culture podcast, talking about Brooklyn Beckham talking about TV, talking about all these other things. We don't necessarily get rewarded for talking about all the other stuff. And I'll be really honest with you. We just this week have been talking about whether our podcast is not being pushed in the way it needs to because we had a few messages and we asked on our stories. And I'm not saying that there's a link there might not be, but we do know that being shadow banned on Instagram is something that happens to people who

talk about issues like ICE, Gaza, Palestine, all of it. So if any, if any, I think there's like more reason to worry about talking about that stuff and I don't think it's necessarily a win for us and I find it interesting because I would be curious to think about what it is we gain necessarily from being critical about the things we do especially with Taylor Swift because we do lose quite a bit actually and we don't actually get the brownie points or the you know commendations or the extra views that you might think we do for doing that we definitely don't. And on the flip side, because we are an independent podcast, we don't have guardrails around what we can and can't discuss because of how it might impact the company that produces us.

And in the past, we have worked with people who have, you know, said, actually, could you not be critical of Amazon because Amazon is someone that we work with. We do actually have the freedom to talk about things in a way that maybe slightly more sanitised, more commercial podcasts don't. And I, I think being performative is actually saying something you don't really mean. And I think if anything, more often than not, I especially say what I mean with my full chest. That is what gets us in trouble. Oh, the amount of times that I think, if I'd have only shut up about that. Like, it's a real, it's a pain.

It's a kind of albatross that sets you free because I think we would each come to the podcast very uncomfortable every week if we were turning out stuff that we were, we were towing a line, ultimately to make more money or any money. we would be so burnt out from that. I think the only thing that keeps us doing this is the fact that we can just, often we are just talking in the noise and we are talking to each other, talking to you guys. It's like a conversation with friends. And I know that we all have these kind of conversations

with our friends as well. And we kind of touched near this, I suppose on last week's episode about celebrity activism, the most common accusation for celebrities when they are doing, their nods towards activism or caring about something is that they are performative and that it is about building a profile

and that it's sort of fickle and ultimately empty. And that, I think, would be a very difficult accusation to sit with the three of us because it just doesn't really chime with the reality of what we are making. But I think it has been, it's become, as you say, which you're like the go-to insult for someone who perhaps just cares differently than you do or perhaps thinks differently because we got this accusation from someone because we have a different opinion, I believe. And perhaps we hadn't handled their faith with the care that they handle their faith with. but I think maybe that's it. We just care differently. So as we said last week, I think it's fair to say we've all been pretty consumed by the Epstein files. I personally have found it almost difficult to look away to the point of distraction

and have been compulsively reading and then fact-checking every screenshot and email I see. It's overwhelming, heinous and unfathomable. But there has been really great writing and podcasts out there. And we're going to put them in the show notes and just point you in the show notes. and just point you in the direction of some things we've seen that might help you to make a bit more sense of it. And Carol Cabuller, who we've spoken about before, great author and writer, wrote a really great substack

that I wanted to point you in the direction of. And in it, she writes, I realize the first piece on Epstein I wrote has to tackle what I believe is the overwhelming revelation of the files. It speaks, I think, to our inability to even see the edges of this story, let alone process it. It's not just the rampant misogyny that oozes from the pages of these documents.

women as chattel, women as objects of both hate and desire, it's darker than that, because it's something that we do not want to see, that we cannot comprehend, that's as sickening as it is pervasive. What Epstein shows us is that we live in a pedophilic culture. And this is just such a well-written piece, and there's lots of others that touch on the kind of ugly truth and why I think it is so hard to look away. And we've even spoken about, we did that episode ages and ages ago, a bonus on Sabrina Carpenter, where we were talking about the ways in which Peter Philips signifiers exist and permeate throughout culture all the time. And then there was a really good recent episode of offline with John Favre, which I brought up before

the podcast. He spoke to Charlie Wazel and asked, can truth survive the Trump era? He says, it's becoming increasingly difficult and disorienting to figure out what's true and what's not anymore, to tell the difference between factual information and propaganda and the absolute slop that pollutes our screens. Was that image AI? Was that human seeming reply actually from a bot? Was that bot seeming post actually written by a human? Does it even matter? In many ways, the confusion and craziness benefits regimes that don't want their authority questioned or their decisions criticised. They just want to govern without all the messiness of our participatory democracy. Again, I thought that is such a crucial element to this because the Epstein Files being released

in this post-truth AI era makes it even more difficult to see the wood from the trees, to know what to believe, who to believe. And I want to know if either of you have read what, or listen to anything else that you thought was particularly helpful, that maybe helped you feel a bit less overwhelmed. And I also want to know if you felt as inclined as me to really try and dig through and get us, I don't really know where this compulsion is coming from, but I almost want to feel on top of every single thing that comes out.

And I don't know if it's to assert some kind of control or to feel like I can get a grip on what this is telling us because it is so momentous. I definitely relate to you on that. And I think for me, the feeling comes from this knowledge that politicians and the billionaires involved in this are so slippery that it feels like if I'm not on top of the names, the accusations, the things coming out, it will be forgotten and moved on. And it seems so silly, but it feels like I have to know what's going on because everything else is pushing me towards smoothing it out, flattening it out, just moving forward. Donald Trump said that we need to all get over this. We need to move on.

There is active pushes to just kind of forget about it and we cannot forget about it. And I think that pressure feels like it's looming over me that I have to do my job in not letting this go, being really dogged about it, talking about it, making sure that I'm part of a stream, a call, a siren that just keeps talking about this. We can't just like forget the gravity of it all. It's so dark. It's so awful. Yeah, I'm actually quite grateful that the two of you have been across this slightly more than I have. I did, against my best judgment, go and have a look at some of the files just because I wanted to see how the Department of Justice was presenting them. So it's kind of a very, it's 3.5 million files, including like 2,000 videos. And it's a huge amount of stuff that I think journalists are still going through.

It's very much a collective effort. And I think some of the best reporting on this is yet to come, I hope. I think there is little to no chance that this will be forgotten. But the way it's already being reported is there's a lot of minimizing. There is a lot of this as people saying like, well, we mustn't say there was a paedophile ring. And it's like, well, perhaps we should just read the files and then we'll come to some conclusion. This isn't even all of the files. So I went and had a look and was immediately overwhelmed kind of by the mundanity of the evil.

And it's like the casual way in some of these emails that people are discussing sort of meeting girls and models and young women and transferring huge sums of money. And there's emails where Jeffrey Epstein is correctly named as a convicted pedophile and its discussions of like, how can we get rid of this? You know, the same tone of email that I would get in touch with an editor and be like, oh, this comma's not right. It's so bland and mundane and it's just revolting. I think it is very difficult. And at the end of Carol's piece, actually, there's the resource that a team have put together the emails in a kind of mirror of Gmail. I don't know if this is how you both have been looking at them because I went direct to the DOJ,

was like, what the fuck going on? And it just basically, you can look at them as if you're looking at your own Gmail account and it's a lot easier to pass. I wouldn't recommend that you go and spend like 10 hours in there, which you absolutely could. But if you are going to read some of them, just don't waste your own time. And maybe we can link it in the show notes. It's called jmail.

Dot world. And it's just an easy way to do it. If you want to get a sense, it's very searchable. It's very easy. But it is so tempting to just end, to dive in and to dive in. just be in this murky world and I did this. I think I was only on there for half an hour, but I stopped doing it and I just felt so revolted. And I don't think, I almost feel like that's a betrayal almost. But then I think I'm not a journalist reporting on this. It's such

worthy work other people are doing. Perhaps I should just pay for that work instead of trying to do it myself. Do you know, it's funny, a bit like you were chariot. It's almost like I've just clicked when you said that. It's like, I have a duty to get this in my brain before someone tries to trick me and tell me that none of this is real. So that's why I'm almost like trying to read everything. Because I'm like, if I've seen it, no one can deny and take that away at the same time because I'm also going, I am going on the Department of Justice because I'm then searching terms.

Then I went on that Gmail thing. Then I'm also reading things online. And the amount of conspiracy theories that are like backed up by the emails, not saying they're true, but it's uncanny. There was a thing that I really remember happening in 2020. But this is kind of how you can get. like really weirdly brained by it. At the same time, there are people saying that, of course, this all true. But there was a conspiracy in 2020 that there was these cabinets listed on Wayfair

and pillows for like really high amounts, like $13,000, $10,000. So much so that people were talking about it that it became a BBC investigation because the names of all of these items were the names of missing girls and women. The BBC did an investigation. They said it was just a coincidence that the names were the same and that the reason that these sellers, because Wayfair kind of aggregates sellers. It's not an independent like shop where it's all from Wayfair. People can list their items. They said, oh, basically when they've run out of cabinets, they just list it a really high price and no one buys it. And people were like, well, that's kind of weird, just don't list it. In the Epstein files, there are like multiple occasions of him buying

very expensive things from Wayfar in like the regions of thousands of pounds and also an occasion when he sends chairs to Woody Allen from Wayfar. Anyway, that's just like an example. I'm not saying it's true, but an example of like, if you start looking, and and you're looking with all these other information, it can kind of rot your brain to the point where like, I don't even know what's true. And as they say in John Favreau's podcast, actually perhaps a part of the tactic of releasing the files in this way

was so that we're all scrambled. And you start reading these things. And after a while, it becomes quite normalized. And actually you get a bit desensitized, which is why we wanted to point in the direction of really good journalism and people who can write about it well because there's one thing of feeling like that duty of wanting to be on top of it. and also sometimes needing credible voices to point you in the direction of a way to understand

this better, but it will never understand it fully. I agree. I think you're completely right. I think a lot of people have either just felt so overwhelmed by the amount of information, which I really relate to, or other people just feel like when you're seeing on X, different parts being reported on, is that even true? Because it's just so hard to kind of wade through it all at this point. And with, as you say, just the kind of influence of AI and kind of doctored images now. It's just, it's created such a mess out of this entire situation that is already so dark, so awful. Some of the things that I have read, just super simple was a BBC piece called Who is in the Epstein files. And it's just getting updated

constantly and it's got very clear kind of references to how each person has been identified in the emails, what exactly they've said and what their response is. Somebody who I was particularly appalled by, I mean, I'm appalled by all of them, but is Deepak Chopra. I went down a little rabbit hole of seeing how he is incriminated in the email specifically. He actually emailed Epstein after 2008 and his conviction and said, bring your girls, it will be fun to have you love and was helping him launder his image in many different ways. Obviously, Deepak Chopra is a self-help guru, somebody who works with celebrities on mindfulness, meditation, all that kind of stuff. So it's particularly gross to me that he's involved.

And then the other things that I've been reading and listening to is Pod Save America, which I never really listened to, but very kind of news and analytical approach to everything going on, which I found quite helpful for it to be just not very opinionated, just very straight down the line. They have an episode called Epstein Files, worse than you thought from last week. And then I don't mean to be negative, but I did see a piece that I kind of want to be slightly critical about from Marina Hyde for The Guardian that was called. So the Epstein scandal is about politics. Silly me for thinking it's about the mass abuse of women and girls. And in it, she makes the good point that I guess everyone's concentrating on the politics and the scandal of it all and are missing the fact that it's about abuse of women. And my point is it's about both. It's not about one or the other.

It's about both. I think the fact that Mendelssohn in the UK has been, you know, incriminated by this. I think the fact that the kind of tentacles of it goes into, you know, Norwegian aristocracy. it goes to Deepak Sherper, it goes to all these different people, it goes to American politicians in government right now. You can't ignore all of that stuff. It is active. It's so active in the world that we live and breathe in today.

I think it is about both the abuse of women and the scandal that is politics that lives and breeds by corruption and paedophilia to its very core. So I shared that Marina High piece and I got a DM being like, it's not about one of the other. But what I took from that piece and what I understood because I've been so obsessively reading these files was in the first few days of reporting on it,

everything was just about Prince Andrew and Peter Mandelson specifically focused on how it impacts UK politics with absolutely no touch on the abuse, the trafficking, the systemic abuse of women and girls by billionaires and the politicians and every single person that is in that like high stratosphere of society. So what I took from her piece was that like it is all one and the same thing, but it did actually make me go, yes, thank you, because I was compulsively refreshing every single new.

podcast waiting for someone to say about the women and the girls. And it was just Mandelson, Mandelson, Mandelso, Manuson, Prince Andrew, Prince Andrew. And that is important. But it did feel for a while like we'd pick these two men. We were going to put them on the parapet. We were going to skewer them. And then, as Donald Trump said, let's just be done with it. And so, yes, it is all one and the same thing. And the levels with which that this permeates through society is actually like mind boggling. And I would never recommend watching one of these, but I did watch one this morning. know these videos where they put like an AI song and they're actually really catchy and they explain everything. Someone was explaining like Epstein's career like how he'd gone from being a school teacher

who met this guy who got him into banking and it was like and it was just watching how he kind of pingponded and bounced between these very influential figures, very rich people and just became so connected. And so it is really important but it is also about the women of girls and I agree with you, but I did think her piece, it did something for me, which was going like, oh, good, we're not actually just going to skirt over that. Yeah, and I suppose it is just wanting something to happen for the people with the most power who have acted most egregiously to receive, like, a proportional, I mean, punishment isn't even the right word. It's just the only sensible, the only right thing to do is to remove these people from positions of power to, to serve them up

something along the lines of justice, like there's nothing that you can do. This is a culture. It's a paedophilic culture that does not blink an eye, that does reward again and again men who abuse their power and harm, well, it is harm women, even if, you know, you can say like, oh, well, is it, he's a gay man. You can, you know, the point is you have, you are friends with a convicted paedophile who is incredibly powerful. You use these links for your own ends. And like, I think what is most shocking about this is how the world is just such bold. It is all. You read these emails and people are talking about elections. People are talking about as if it's no some games, as if it is just they are playing a game of Catan or whatever

it is where you, you know, as if it is how can we profit off this? And it's the lives of everyone else on earth. And the outcome of that is, of course, that there is these women and these girls, people don't care. People who harm them are protected because of the allocation of power and what people are really hungering for is some kind of reckoning, some kind of comeuppance, some kind of action that says the world is not completely rotten to its core. And watching people fanny around, people say, oh, I didn't know. You did know Kirstana. This was all public record.

Oh, I didn't know and nothing happening. I think it is the most infuriating part of this. I find it this is a time where we are post-truth. People are really suspicious of media. People are farming out their attention to really, really, bad faith, full conspiracy theorists because they cannot trust, because they feel that they cannot trust traditional media. And so this coming out, like, it feels very disruptive. And whether it yields anything kind of impossibly shaking things up and actually readdressing this, what is happening

now, it just feels like wreckage. It feels like no one knows who to trust. We don't know what's going to happen with these files. It is very, it seems very likely in the US that very little is happening. A lot more is happening in Europe and in the UK specifically to address this. People are resigning. people are poised to resign, whereas in America, I just don't know. It doesn't feel like that. But also, like, what happens to us living in a society where these powerful people accused of, like, the most heinous crimes with evidence, sexual crimes and also, like, crimes of politics, ways they've wielded their power, crimes of finance, like, nothing happens. I think, I think this may be a tipping point for a lot of people who will go, this, it is enough now. Because surely, if not this, then what? If there's one thing that anyone takes from this conversation, I just think I implore you to not think, oh, well, you know politics is scandalous. We know that it is corrupt. Do not desensitize yourself to it because it is a lot worse than I thought. It is a lot worse than any of us can imagine. And I think we can't lose sight of that. I think to kind of move on to kind of squash it into, you know, the world's fucked. We kind of know this stuff happens. No, we just can't do that. Yeah. And it's really easy. I've, I've, I

really try my hardest to be level-headed around conspiracy stuff, but it's in this instance very easy to get drawn in. And what I think it's really important to remember is even without every single conspiracy coming out, the detail, the true facts, the things that are in the emails, the things that cannot be disputed that were said are bad enough on their own, don't let the noise around what might be true or might not be true. The victims' testimonies, the things that are, you know, undisputable are bad enough. So and I think part of the sort of like conspiracy stuff that's coming off it. Unfortunately, because of that dubious nature of it might then make the whole thing feel like it's all, oh, I don't really know. But we know enough. There is

enough in there that you can read to shock you to your court to actually make you really question what this life is. Like it's totally destabilizing. And the one thing that I do really believe, which is sort of like tin hat, is that is this pushing of generative AI to the point of it being so exceptionally believable all so that when things do come out Trump can turn around as he has said I think hasn't he that every image in the Epstein files is just AI and that is something

that I think is truly terrifying so we are going to link all the pieces that we have talked about all the resources but just a word of caution you do not have to be as delved into this as humbly possible it is completely as we've said the word destabilising is personally disabling

to read page after page of one very boring emails but also really shocking emails. There's great reporting coming out. We will stay across it, but just protect your peace to whatever extent that you can. Thank you so much for listening this week. Before we go, just checking that you've caught up

on our latest in-conversation episode from Wednesday where we discuss twink death and the pressures on men to be strong and look a certain way. If you enjoy listening, then please do leave us a review rating wherever you're listening and also make sure that you hit follow on your podcast player app. And while you're doing that, please also give us a follow on Instagram and TikTok at Everything is Content Pod. We will have new stuff dropping and you can also chat to us over there as well.

See you next week. Bye.