Everything Is Content - Cancelled Women: Caroline Calloway, Olivia Wilde & The Invite

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

Hello EIC, this week we're taking a look at the return of two cancelled women from pop culture.Also we are very sorry for any audio issues. We were blessed to be recording IRL at the Homewood Hotel and Spa (tysm to them!).Influencer, author and infamous 'scammer' Caroline Calloway made a public return to discourse last week with a new piece detailing her experience on Ozempic. Known for flower crowns, long IG captions in the 2010s and a viral creativity workshop where she charged hundreds of dollars for sharing her own posts, Calloway's essay sparked a big discussion around GLP-1s and the usefulness of weight loss transparency in 2026.Next up, Olivia Wilde is back on a press run, and this one looks very different to her last. The director and actor has risen from the discourse ashes after Don't Worry Darling to critical fanfare and high praise for her latest film, The Invite. We take a look at her recent interviews, the film and the wildly (sorry) different response to her and her talent this time round.Thank you so much for listening to us this week! Love O,R,B xxx----This week Ruchira and Oenone loved The Odyssey. Beth loved The Five-Star Weekend, and Ruchira recommended Hunting Wives.The Drug That Made Me Want LessHow GLP-1s Feed Our Sick CultureThe Story of Caroline Calloway & Her Ghostwriter NatalieA Comprehensive Introduction To Caroline Calloway, The Controversial Figure For The Chronically OnlineThe Invite review – Seth Rogen adds zest and bite to fruity dinner party comedy | Movies | The GuardianOlivia Wilde: Dating, Double Standards & Dealing with Scrutiny (Call Her Daddy interview)Why Does It Seem Like So Much of the Internet Hates Olivia Wilde? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth. I'm Ruchera and I'm Anoni and this is Everything is Content. The podcast stares into the dark abyss of the internet so that you don't have to. We're the pink range rover of content driving down the motorway of pop culture. This week on the podcast we're talking about very cancelable women. Olivia Wilde, who seems to be in a renaissance period after years of public criticism and Caroline Callaway, whose recent essay about taking a Zen pic, has ignited a lot of, lot of discourse. You can and should follow a lovely and totally independent podcast on Instagram and TikTok, Everything is Content Pod, for behind the scenes content and a chance to get

your opinions included in future episodes. And please also make sure that you've hit follow on your podcast players, you never miss a new episode. So I have missed doing this. What have you both been loving this week? Well, what I've been loving this week, I know for fact is also what Ritchhira has been loving this week, because we are currently recording this episode from a beautiful hotel and bath called homewood and we have been trying to record it for the past past three hours and we are quite a few glass of wine in we don't have to keep that bit in anyway Ritra and i got the train here together and we have both seen the odyssey beth has not seen it so what i have been loving this week is absolutely the odyssey and the subsequent path that

it sent me down but i wonder for me and ratured because is that what you've been loving yeah you stole one of mine but it's okay i've got three she's got more do you think we should go into it a bit or should we not spoil. I was trying at dinner to ask you both questions. You both were not giving me anything. So I'm a big fan of the Odyssey. I have read the book but I've not seen it. In fact, Anoni and I woke up in bed together this morning and Anoni, can you remind me of the joke

that you had dreamt? What? It was a t-shirt joke or something? Odysseus. Odysseus? Odysseus. It was like, it was something... Odysseu. Us? Adi. You. Sorry like that. But I, for some reason, my halt, because we, last night, were making TikTok for

hours. And so last night, all of my dreams were just writing captions. Like that was every dream I had was just writing captions for different things. And the most recent one before I woke up was a T-shirt. But it's in your subconscious. That's how Deep Odysseus has got. Okay, I want to hear. I really need to hear about the film.

It is the first film I have rated five stars on Letterbox. And I am a hard ass when it comes to rating films or rating anything. I give everything a 4.5 if it's the best thing I've ever had in my life. So something to be five is huge. Damn. Yeah. So that's how I feel about it. Honestly, I was weeping at the end.

of it. I thought it was spectacular. I thought it was so immersive. I felt like a lot of the scenes in the ship with the waves crashing meeting the sirens. Sorry, spoilers. There's waves in it. There is a story. Oh, sorry, guys. TLD is a boat trip in there. Oh, so good. I felt like I was literally in the boat with them. So, so good. What about you? So I loved it. I didn't cry. And I also don't know. I think it's like a five star film, but I don't think it would be five stars like above everything else. Like I really, really enjoyed it. And you know a lot of people are saying,

Tom Holland's really bad, but I didn't think that at all. And I loved the way that this hope doesn't spoilers, but the way that Christopher Nolan includes the gods, I thought was very clever. I loved all of the magical bits. I loved the sirens. I love the cyclops.

I love Sursay. I'm just obsessed with Sursa anyway. But I did then, after having watched it, think about, I thought it was a beautiful adaptation. I really appreciated Chris Van Noland's adaptation. But then I went down a massive rabbit hole, got absolutely obsessed. with not just the ancient Greeks,

but also the ancient Romans, then the Egyptians, and then like the Neolithic period, I basically went on the whole of human history and decided I wanted another adaptation immediately in my vision. Can I get a synopsis of the whole of human history, just from you? Yeah, basically.

So, like, 30,000 years ago, there was the first humans. That's when it began. Well, no. There was actually the dynast was so many things before that. I don't believe in dinosaurs. And the longest period, I can't remember the longest period,

but obviously you have, like, the Egyptians and had the Romans and the Greeks there at the same time. And there was the fall. And then there was the Middle Ages. And then there was us. And then it's now. And now we're in the tech era, which is the worst. Do you know when Odysseus?

Where does the Odyssey fall? So the Odyssey actually was, I think, like, a thousand, maybe 1,200 years BC, but when it was actually finally put down by Homer, it was like a lot, lot later. So they were already the oral tradition. It had already been adapted and changed and translated throughout those years of it being. And no one knows of Homer is a one guy or loads of guys. Could be a bunch of guys. Could be a yellow man with a big.

Could be Homer. Oh my god, is that why Homer Simpson's called Homer? He's the only homer that I know personally. Me too, but never made that connection. My hot take, and I can come in with my tail between my legs here, is because I know I was a bit rude about the Wuthering Heights adaptation by Emerald Fennell. I did think that. We, you're bad. You're like, you bitch, you better do a me or a culprit about that.

I have come on Mike to do that. I think having been intimately acquainted with Wuthering Heights and just thinking that adaptation butchered it, I think I don't have very much intimate knowledge of The Odyssey. I know the story. I haven't read any interpretations yet. I will do now. I think because of that,

this interpretation, which V is very wildly in different directions and lots of the characters, also even having Matt Damon play Odysseus, interesting choice, divisive choice. It worked for me in this film, but I can see how it would make people feel like this is not the true,

the honest, the authentic interpretation, even though it was a very good film. Yeah. My only one I've ever read adaptation was, well then I realised I was saying this to Pretoria. I was like, oh, everything is the Odyssey. But I did read a hospital Odyssey when I was at uni, which was like a really long epic poem

about the invention of the NHS and Bevinx. He's Welsh. I was at Union and Wales. So that was fun. But I didn't have an intimate relationship like Beth. So I was like you, but then afterwards I went down to, I was hyperfixated so much that I then came away feeling like actually I didn't agree with lots of his choices

because retrospectively I found out loads about the Odyssey and went, Oh, yeah, I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have made them American. A lot of, yeah, a lot of classicists are playfully engaging in saying, okay, so this, as Emily Wilson, who is the author of one of the most famous and accessible translation. It's probably the one, I think the one I read at school before, maybe it was Latimer. She's got notes, but I think it's very interesting. She's engaging with it in a fun way.

Obviously, all the N-Sells on Twitter are still harping on. But it is booked in, like, the IMAX, BFI, IMAX is booked until September currently. It is so funny. Christopher Nolan is laughing all the way to the bank, and these people are looking foolish. He's having a good old time. It's also funny. You're like controversial for him to cast Matt Damon. It's like, well, not for him.

Because he literally only knows how to cast. The same. Matt Damon and Haphaway. Killing Murphy is obviously not in it, but he does Haphus. Oh, well, this is one of the conspiracy theories I wanted to tell you is that people think that Tenet, Oppenheimer and the Odyssey are a reverse chronological tale because Oppenheimer uses the Trojan War concept to create the atom which fundamentally changes. And I haven't watched Tenet, so I can't remember what the thing was, but everyone's like,

oh my God, it's all connected. The thing is I can see that it's all connected because I feel like famously Christopher Nolan's muse is time. And I feel like all of his films kind of oscillate around the same thing, this idea of Pandora's box, which breaks apart the very nature of civilization. And I feel like when you put it plainly like that,

all three films, they are exactly in relation to one another. I've got one hot bit of gossip, which is the actress who played Circe. Apparently, after she did her first take, everyone on set did a standing ovation. The only other time that's happened on a Christopher Nolan set is Heath Ledger doing The Joker. Well, she was amazing. Because I've tried not to get any cast spoilers.

I don't even know and actually had to ask you to who Robert Pattinson plays. The other thing that really really made me laugh, I was just laughing thinking about it was someone put up all of the films that Mount Davin's been in and they were like, we have spent billions of dollars trying to get this man home because he's always in films about trying to get home. The Martian, Interstellar. I can't know anything else. He is an interstellar.

He is the man that is stranded on a. Oh, yes. Oh my God. Oh, my God. Oh, yes. my gosh, yes. Yeah, he literally never goes home. Samantha Morton. Samantha Morton. I love her because she is a great British actress.

She went to a drama school up Northwich, which isn't the thing now. She basically is what happens when you fund the... Yes, but she's been another... I reckon she was in... She was in... Not vanilla sky, but some thing... Minority Report, which is a bonkers. Oh, I used to watch that. I love it. I just watched it the other day. But Samantha Morton is one of our finest. Oh, God, I'm... See, that's a spoiler for me, but I'm so excited.

I don't think that's a spoiler because I think she is... might be in the trailer. I'm not even watched trailer. I didn't even know Matt Damon was in it. Anyway. How? I literally, I like turning up to the cinema being like, what is this? This is because you're in a cave. Like, Ritira is like, we're all picturing ourselves as chronic online.

Ritra's actually just not got a phone. Hey, I'm looking after myself. You should try it. It's not for me. Oh, I'm so excited to see it now. Obviously, I'm going to have to wait until September. I want to see my mask. Oh, this is one thing I will say.

I saw it in a picture house. Ritira saw it in a view. Yeah. I think the picture house sound system isn't that loud. So it was like, it was like, it was impactful. But the whole time I was watching it all I could think was, I know there's more screen. I know there's more.

You know there's more here. I know the stuff above and below that I can't see. Have you seen the meme of people saying, joking on this, being like, I'm watching it how he and Tedded, and they're watching it on the fridge, they're watching on the Apple Watch. Obviously, they're just watching the trailer. Also, I keep seeing AI generated comparisons of a normal cinema on an Imax.

I'm like, oh my God, and then I read the comments somewhere. Because there's not that many IMAX is around the 40 in the world. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the biggest one, I think might be in Berlin or Germany or Australia. I think we might have the most, no, actually, I've literally just made that up. I was going to say me on the UK. Anoni's first misinformation of the podcast.

But I actually knew I was learning when I started that. Sometimes I don't know. Oh, God, all I want to do is now just talk about ancient. I know. I was going to say maybe if when you watch it, we could queen out and do it a different segment. Oh, 100%. Listeners, let's know what you think and if you want us to. My Roman Empire is now.

The Roman Empire. And the Greek Empire. Well, there's just the Empire. Just the Empire. All of the Empires. Beth, because you are Odyssey not. Adi me? Adi who? I don't know.

Adi us. What have you been loving this week? So I watched a little show on NowTV or Sky. wherever you get it, called The Five Star Weekend. I've seen this. You watch the show? No, but I really want to. That's because she doesn't only watch trailers.

I watch TV trailers. I don't watch film trailers. Okay, right. So basically it is about a... So it's All Starcast. I'm going to write, Regina Hall, Jennifer Garner. I've not seen her in anything in Eager. She's amazing. She looks exactly the same. Chloe Savonio. Yeah, that's perfect actually because I...

Yeah, cool. She's an actress. She's an American psycho. Sorry, I literally thought she was just like a... Not just. Women do many things. Timothy Oliphon, he's a very well-known, very handsome American actor. It basically is about a, not a tradwife influence, but a cooking influence, a very wholesome.

Her husband dies at the beginning of the first episode, and she, I think it's like six to nine months after that. She has this gorgeous house. She's very popular in Instagrammer and create a chef. She has this house in Antarctica where she grew up, and she takes the advice of like an esterple type, I think, to have different friends from different seasons of her life come out, all of her besties.

So it's her childhood best friend who still lives on the island and has to dry cleaners, her really rich, best friend Regina Hall, who's a sports agent. It's got Gemma Chan, who plays her newest friend, who, her friends are like,

who is this person, but they bonded basically over both losing people. They all go to this gorgeous house, but it's, it's more wholesome than something like two weeks in August, but it's mess. It's girl mess. It's woman mess.

It's good acting. It's a bit cookie cutter, but I think the performances are actually stunning. I think it's really well written. I think it's funny. I actually think this is one. I don't think the marketing is very good, because I don't,

I thought it's going to be a bit trashy. So I saw the trailer for this, and I feel like they used a really emotional song and because it starts with her grieving her husband, I was like, nope, nope, I'm not in a place to watch a grieving, beautiful woman who I'm probably going to have a parissocial relationship with and I have to now feel sad.

But you feel rage as well. I think there's enough in that that actually you don't end up feeling sad. You feel quite charged because there's scandal, there's drama, there's secrets. Is it like the one we watched recently with Nicole Kidman and Megan Farhi, like the perfect stranger?

Do you know what? It's more whole, and cookie-couching that, but it has got similar levels. Oh my God, I can't believe she's done that. I think once we've gone down this White Lotus Road two weeks. People don't know how to make any other type of show anymore. I like them. But I think we've got to, someone's got to invent something new now.

I'm a bit over it. I yeah. Both of you should watch this because I'm quite, I think these actresses together, I'm sorry, when have you last seen Jennifer Garner and anything? I will watch it. Chloe Savonieu, you've obviously never seen her do anything. No, I see her wearing her tabby. She looks gorgeous.

I forget her name, but again, the Guardian reviewer that we really like. Lucy Mangon. Lucy Mangon said, she gave it three stars, said, Jennifer Garner's escapist hollow drama is the perfect beach watch. I think that's it. You'll enjoy it? It's not going to change your life, but it's nice. Jennifer Garner has a face that I wish her well throughout her life. I don't know what it is.

She has such a gorgeous, kind, lovely, warm face. She's so beautiful. Ever since I first saw her in 13 going on 30, I think I was like 15. I was like, I wish that woman well. One of Ben's Jen's. She was a good wife to Matt Damon's husband, Ben Affleck. Right.

Do you want to give some of your other ones? Okay. So similarly, I managed to watch Hunting Wives whilst I was away. So Hunting Wives is the lesbian drama that's basically about Republicans in the US. And it's got Britney Snow in it. Oh, Malin Aikamans in it. Yep. The cast exceptional.

Dermit Mulroney. Oh, my God. One of my OG crushers. Is it lesbians? Oh, yeah. There's like a lot of really hot sex. And essentially, it's, This woman outsider moves to Texas because of her husband gets embroiled in this very dramatic clique of Republican women, gun using Texan women.

And she is very different. She's come with her own baggage and trauma to this area to this group. And it's murder. It's a who-donener. It's romance. It's also affairs. It's gossipy. It's so much fun.

It's trashy, but the highest brow trashy, I'd say. It's got Chrissy. in it from that very sad show, This is ours. Oh, that's what I was just thinking. I've not seen her anywhere since. She isn't it? Yeah. Oh, it says we can watch it on ITV.

Oh. You went all the way to mainland Europe to watch. I bought a flight to watch it. What are you talking about? So basically this came out a year ago and I remember last cultureistas were obsessed with this. So many US podcasts were obsessed with it and we couldn't watch it. So that's crazy that ITV have got it.

I watch it on Netflix in Italy. This section will contain mention of eating disorders, drug misuse, weight loss drugs and toxic diet culture. Please do listen with care. Let's kick off with Caroline Calloway because she has written a viral think piece about being on a Zempeg, a 2026 sentence, if ever I have said one, and I have been dying to talk about this for about three weeks. Oh my goodness. As soon as I read it, I was like, we have to talk about this. But I think before we get into it, we do need to do a briefish refresher on the internet myth, the legend, that is Caroline Calloway. So back in 2013, Caroline, who was doing her undergrad studies at NYU, moved to the UK to study at Cambridge uni.

And for the first three years that she was studying there, she documented her social life, her relationships, her studies, and her picturesque surroundings on Instagram to, at a peak, around half a million followers. In 2015 and 2016, Caroline began hinting at writing a book proposal, meetings with publishing houses and literary contracts, before announcing that flat-iron books had offered her a six-figure deal for memoir. However, in 2017, she announced that she couldn't finish the book and the deal therefore was off. In 2018, she launched her Creativity Workshop tour, offering tutorials on Instagram branding, ideas and making art. Tickets cost $165. However, this series was quite quickly cancelled in more ways than one after journalist Kaylee Donaldson wrote a Twitter thread about the series, labeling Caroline a scammer in the event a scam,

posting Caroline's own Instagram content to back up her claims that she was unprepared, overcharging and taking advantage of her devoted fans. Like much of Caroline's law, there is so much slash too much to go into, but it culminated in Caroline cancelling the tour, then uncancelling the tour, and creating a T-shirt about Donaldson reading, Stop Hate Following Me, Kaley, which was pulled by the manufacturer for violating a harassment policy.

So this is when her branding and her digital profile really shifted, as the story went viral and she lent into the scammer label and her fame became infamy. And in 2019, her former writing partner and friend Natalie Beach had an essay published in the cut called I was Caroline Calloway, disclosing that she had ghostwritten many of Caroline's Instagram captions and was collaborating with her on the since-canceled book proposal. And this article was the cut's most read story of 2019. Since then, there's been another book called Scammer, a lucrative only found account, many viral moments and most recently a viral essay for Byline about being on a Zepik.

In the piece, she discusses her tendency to chase short-term gratification. Quote, I get money, I spend it. I get yummy food. I gobble it all up. Cookie monster manic pixie nightmare style. I have no savings account. I have no regular account. I get invited to parties.

I go. I get bored and I fix it and I get offered drugs and I say thank you. Nudge my shoulder after midnight and give me any substance besides Adderoll or cocaine, and I am so very grateful, so completely down your new best friend. But my favourite drug I've been taking lately is a Zen pic, and I love it precisely because it makes me want less of everything else on earth. She describes how she was able to access the drug by wearing ankle weights to be weighed and editing photos of her online application to appear, quote, chipmunk-cheeked.

She also writes about the side effects, which include nausea that makes it hard to stand up and multiple instances of just throwing up on her floor. But she writes, she doesn't want to stop taking it. Not only does it make her skinny, but it also subdues her tendency towards addiction. The piece ends. It's just like I always remind myself. It's either this and being skinny or a violent hangover, which feels the same and being 15 pounds heavier. I don't want to get sober. I don't want to go to rehab. I don't have the self-discipline to change my psyche or the lifespan to fix the patriarchy.

I'll run out of time and die before I see the world stop treating thin women with more reverence and gentleness than the average plump girl I once was. woof is how I'd begin this That's a woof, woof, woof. Did you think the piece was good, I guess I'll start with? Did you think there was any value and why are you shocked? Because one of the lines that I think she repeats, and I do wonder if it was edited, because she goes quite a few times,

she goes, one of my favorite things I love to say, or like one of the worst things about me is I'd just say sentences people have never said before. And I think people maybe have said this. It kind of was shocking, but the way that she positions it is really shocking, made it less so. I feel like the thing that was shocking is how revealing this piece is, which is I feel like she

has not read anything about everyone else's pieces on a Zen pic or maybe considered fat phobia and how rampant and how this argument about the privilege of skininess and all these kind of things is not a new phenomenon. It is such an ancient phenomenon in internet discourse years. So I think her saying, I'm used to saying sentences that no one's ever said before and then repeating verbatim every sentence that anyone's ever said about a Zen pic is revealing about. her. So I think that's what's interesting about this piece. I don't think otherwise, this is going to sound maybe quite blunt. I don't think it added much to the discussion around a Zempic at all for me. I agree. I think it tells us a lot about Caroline Callaway, which maybe we already knew. I don't

think it tells us much about a Zempic in the wider discourse, like you say, that we didn't know before. I don't think I'm as hard on the writing as other people are. I think it could have been better edited. I think if it was published somewhere, and I'm not even thinking someone like the cup. I'm thinking like a real long read, if it was twice the length, edited much more finally. And also she touched on the fact that she is Caroline Calloway. She's writing from her own perspective of like not just beautiful but thin but woman in the world, millennial woman in the world, but also Caroline flipping Callaway. This could have been a really, a much more valuable piece. I think she had maybe failed by not, just, maybe just not it being long enough and not

being as thoroughly edited. Yeah, I think that was my thing. editing. I do think there was some funny lines in there. Obviously not that she would read, but I actually wrote a piece called on a Zempic desire and something pleasure or something like that. Like two, years ago. And I basically say what she's saying, but in reverse, which is that I don't want, I want to fight the thing that she's saying I'm just going to succumb to. And I feel like, so everyone, I do think there's a world in which I would be grateful to hear someone like to me more or someone who's visibly who we assume is on a Zen pic actually standing up and going, yeah, I have actually taken this. I do think there's a world in which sometimes it could be helpful to people to go,

look, I am on the strung and I'm on it to be thin. I think there is a world in which that kind of level of honesty is useful. But I don't think it's useful paired with what she does. does, which is like, I'm just a victim of it and I actually can't escape it because I think, like, the piece that we love, which was the anti-cosmetic essay that everyone should read, which was going like, actually, yeah, we are all living under this. So let's save each other by not doing it. She's, the reason I guess it is kind of unsayable is she's going, I'm going to sail off on the ship into the sunset. I'm going to leave you bitches behind. And so I think there is a world in which the idea, it could have been interesting, but the most interesting thing

for me was the orgasm. That was interesting. The thing I'm going to call you out on is, do you think transparency is enough? Because I feel like I've been so radicalised with Kylie Jenner saying, under the muscle, whatever, C,C, with Chris Jenner doing so many podcasts,

video podcasts with her surgeon about her facelifts, with this new era of transparency over tweakments. A Zen pic more and more, maybe not everyone, but like an essay like this, I don't really feel like it's doing anything other than to normalise a lot of these tweakments, cosmetic surgeries, everything, this obsession with our looks to be really, really blunt about it.

I don't feel like transparency is doing enough. No, you're right. And I do think also, obviously, you're just handing the keys to someone to lock the door to further than their eating disorder. If you're like, this is how I'm getting thin or whatever. I guess it's more like, you're right, it's a double-edged store.

I think it's a conversation I've been having for a long time about influences. Is it better to be honest so that you're not deceiving your audience? Or is it better to lie so you're not encouraging it. It's better that we all delete our accounts forever. Yeah, I think it's more just that like sometimes, I hate that some people will feel that this unattainable body standard is like a comment on their how they look.

And so a world where women go, this is how I've got there. Could be helpful because someone might think, okay, well then that's not realistic. Like no woman's body can really look like that without aid. But then you're right, it also does encourage people to find ways to... And if I said to you both, if I suddenly popped up with a much slimmer body and I said, I'm abusing diet pills or I'm abusing cocaine, that's how I've got this body.

I'm not going to change. I mean, what she does, she disclosing the piece, she's very physically drained and well. She says, look, I've not read the pieces about how this might be bad for me in the future. I mean, it's safer. I think that's a stupid comparison by me, but also it means. She is saying I'm sort of, I got this by ill means. I lied together. I'm abusing it. It makes me feel physically bad. But I've gone from 130 to 115 to 15. I think all she tells us is that her view of the world is so broken by diet culture that she really believes that there's a, the difference between. I mean, I've been 150, I've been 130. I'm now more. more. Well, nor should you, it's pounds. Sorry, that's why I didn't want to mean. Nor should you know.

I think it's good not to know, but I've been both of those and I can tell you now, I mean, she's a bit taller than me. You're both straight size slim at that. The only difference is that people who are also addled by an eating disorder will treat you better. Society at large, I'm sorry, if you're slim, if you're thin, you're still just, I know it's different because she's an influencer and there's been a really good rebuttal actually, not a rebuttal, but a in conversation piece by Jessica Gross called How GLP-1s Feed Our Sick Culture.

And she basically, she does point out that her, job as an influencer does mean it's different maybe than many women, maybe than me. My living doesn't rest on whether I post pictures on my body, whether I look a certain way and clothes. That's fair enough. She basically says her whole shtick is to agitate my sense is that she really feels this way. Her uncomfortable candor is a useful illustration of how the widespread availability of GLP1s has further warped the way mainstream American culture views women's way. I think she thinks the world is treating her much better than it is, but actually eating disorder adult women are worshipping her.

Like, do you know what? I don't even know, you're right. If you're a thin, attractive woman, which she is, and thin, straight-sidesness can be up to, like, 14, 60. It's like really, we're talking about, like, fat, like, and people that called themselves fat. She went from thin to thin. Yes. But do you know what I think it is? Because I feel this way about myself is, because we have to film us, everyone now for what, when you feel hotter, when you feel like you fit more, you're better at doing our job. So it's probably not even that necessarily, it makes it easier.

If you feel like I'm really thin, every item I put on me, it just hangs in the right way. it's probably easier to take a picture, easier to take a video. It makes your life feel easier as a content creator. In her, I'm not saying that's right. I'm saying like, for her. I don't agree. The reason why I say that is, when I've been in my worst body dysmorphic mindset, whatever,

you were the most critical of yourself. When I've got to acceptance or closest to acceptance, I was just like, okay, I am who I am. It sounds like she thinks she looks amazing. That's what I'm getting from the piece. It sounds like what she thinks she looks is good. I think she now has recast her £130 self as very, because she's on Instagram comments arguing that she was actually quite plumb.

So I think she has... I know what you mean, you're right. When I was doing my bikini competition, I got really small. I would like pinch my stomach. Now I don't even know what I look like, because I don't... So I think she genuinely looks and feels in her head that she's... Okay. The thing that I found throughout all of this piece and all of the kind of discussions around

ZemPEC is I feel like there is a natural tension in life. And all we're doing with the access to peptides, access to JLP ones is we are eradicating the natural tensions in life. I am constantly thinking, should I do this? Should I not do that? Should I have a drink tonight? Oh, maybe I shouldn't. Oh, I've gone back on my word. That's kind of annoying. Okay, I have to sit with that. Everything is tension. And her saying, I can't be asked to do the hard work with, like, challenging myself. And I appreciate that she said that she has, you know, her own relationships to things. She might have her own isms that make it specifically hard for her to give up drinking, you know, go to parties, drugs, whatever. I'm not saying it individually to her. I just think we're

getting ourselves into a place with the world, with all of these kind of accesses to increasing vitamins, longevity, all this kind of stuff, rather than doing the difficult work of saying no to things or just like living a life that kind of we go back on ourselves now and again, we may be sitting in the sun too much. It's just, I don't know, we're just like outsourcing all of that tension or that difficulty into other ways.

Not if you guys said it, but if someone that I didn't know as well went to me, look, I'm an addict, I'm struggling with like my drug use, I'm drinking. I think if I go on a Zen pic, it's going to actually like relieve me in a really significant way. I would sit with them and be like, why don't we think about rehab? And they don't want to go to rehab.

And I was like, well, what if we, and they wouldn't, I probably would let be supportive of a friend and be like, okay. I think it's a really useful tool in addiction. The problem is that for her, in this is the addiction. Yes, but what I mean is there's a world in which actually this conversation, what I think actually, and I want to ask you both, I don't know if this piece is ethical to publish. No, I'm not convinced of it.

She's talking about her drug use. She's talking about how this, she's talking about how she, I think the worst bit of the, piece for me is not the asmpic use. It's the fact she advertises to women how you can get an Zemps by wearing weights and editing our pictures and stuff. No, completely agree. It's literally giving women an idea that they might not have had. It's per Anna content. I think you're right. I think that's exactly what it is. Should they have published it? No, I don't think they should have. And I think that's a good point what you said about addiction. Because when I said what I said, I wasn't even thinking

about addiction. I was thinking about when people are talking about the food, noise, but they haven't struggled with their weight long time. It's these people who are fit. you want to be thinner, such as the celebrity class that I'm talking about that base. It's so tough. This is actually so tough because I started this thinking I wanted a better, as long a piece, but actually the culmination of this piece is so depressing, and I feel that she is so unwell. And I really, you know, I just think that she is a very unwell person at this moment in time. She talks about it in the piece.

This is disordered thinking, whether or not it's a diagnosis. Like, I actually do, I feel very sad. Thing is, again, we have to, because also I've made it quite serious that, she is sarky. She's taking the piss. Like she's saying the stuff, you don't even know, I never know if she's taking the truth.

She throws up on the floor because she's on this. But when she's saying stuff like, you know, I never turn a drug down. For we know she's one of those people that actually isn't, I know this is really bad, but she's,

I think the reason the byline, I'm now like playing devil's advocate with myself, but I think there's a part of a personality where people go, oh, well, it's Caroline Callaway. She can write that down. And I actually think like,

there is a while where it was edited better so that the framing was more protective for readers and more protective for her. but I do think if you actually read that piece, I think because it's Caroline Calloway, we go, oh. But actually it's quite wild. It's just a reframing of Kate Moss saying nothing tastes as good as skinny. That's what this piece is, basically, really.

I think in this landscape, I think it is a mistake, actually, to publish this without thorough editing where you actually encourage someone, hang on, write this in the context of writing it, because she doesn't really do that. She talks about thinness, but it's way too personal to just be a very good commentary. and in the piece I mentioned earlier by Jessica Gross, she is talking about how there is a real, if you're looking at the people with anorexia nervosa who are trying GLP-1s, these are, it's increasing,

it is, this is a real problem that is going to kill people, is killing people, that is an interesting angle, that's something you have to, if you are going to write the defendant of piece on this, which she absolutely could, she's an industrious enough, hardworking enough writer and a good enough writer to have written that, she just didn't write it,

but she writes that there was a study of female participants that found the misuse of GLP ones is higher among people with eating disorders among the general population. That's not surprising, but 10% of participants with anorexia had tried GLP ones. I mean, we're going to be discovering stuff about this in years to come, and it's going to, I think, blow our minds. The one thing I think about Caroline Calloway that's really interesting, because I never think that cancellation works that much. But really, also, her Instagram at the minute, we've spoken about it privately, but she's constantly looking for rooms to sublet.

She's just gone through like a big breakup. She's kind of, she's living quite an odd for someone really in the public eye is going through quite loudly a very strange situation where she's kind of sofa surfing and she's writing these pieces and I think she actually was cancelled quite successfully because even though she still has a big audience people aren't as engaged in like if you look at her like engagement kind of online it's not as high I think it's so interesting because I think she actually kind of unfortunately because she never made it to like proper celebrity class she got toppled off the edge at the point when she was about to come someone and now she's maybe feeling like she has to be.

controversial she has to be saying the stuff is there a love of care missing and we've spoken about it a lot with the cut essays I would defend her I really would I actually am not antagonistic towards her I think there's a duty of care by editors which is separate than her own thoughts she is not wrong to feel this way this is what she's going through she is actually nailing truths about our culture and our relationship with skininess that other people are scared to say she says it how she is but I do I mean this the conversation with her could be a whole episode you know there is the conversation she maybe isn't doing so hot right now whereas maybe a man would have been forgiven but also a non-white woman wouldn't have been able to leverage a whole career or a book out of being a scammer.

I mean, there's so many levels to this, but she is also an individual. I would like her to be well. That is basically the underlying thing for me. I mean, she used to follow me very briefly on Twitter. Really? Oh my God. I remember being like, oh, and then she unfollowed. I think she would come on.

I think she's just a product of her time as well. And I think because there was this big obsession with like female scammers, if you think of somebody like Anna Delvey, we have no idea what she's up to right now because they were a product of a trend, which was, you know, kind of, kind of bizarre in hindsight, this very like internet-y vibe of these hot women who've managed to successfully like pull one over us. Also maybe slightly, maybe massively sexist when it comes to Caroline Calloway whose worst crime is doing an expensive girl bossy workshop. Basically yes, yeah. But I think the problem with her now and what she's indicating is she hasn't been able to evolve with the times. I think an essay like this, especially in the current climate, it just goes down

like a fucking lead balloon. What I would like to go back, I mean, this might be the longest episode we've ever recorded, but I would quite like to go back to one, the best. pleasure aspect that she discloses in this that she hasn't had an orgasm, when she's 34 years old, sorry. I would also like to, for you both to be thinking about your favourite, maybe more lighthearted bonkers, Caroline Caroline Calloway moment. Because actually she has, she's a fantastic internet character and she, I think she's very savvy. Did she sell literal snake oil at one point?

That's my favour, I think. I hope she made money doing that, because if you know what you're mine, I hope it never arrived. This is not a really good moment to bring up, but she, like, lies. streamed the LA Wildfires when she was in her flat. Do you remember? Oh my gosh I remember that. Yeah. She was in the LA Wildfires because she was also stuck in the hurricane hurricane Milton in Florida. Maybe it was that. Maybe it was that. So maybe I called it the wildfires. I went she has been at the center of it's so interesting because I actually I'm going on my in Essex. I want to remember what I said. But I yeah, I wrote a piece called On Desire Beauty and

Asempec and it was all about how one of my fears about living in this era of ismpic and our face is not moving because of Botox, whatever, is the death of pleasure. It's like the death of not wanting things. I always want things. And I found it so interesting that she'd managed to say in the same breath and the same essay, I've never had an orgasm. And also, I'm deciding to live a pleasure devoid life. Because basically what Azemic does is it stops those receptors in your mind that make you think on all front on quite a lot of fronts. Like some people do lose their libido, you lose your appetite, but you lose your appetite in lots across the board. It's kind of numbing and I was like how fascinating that you've gone because it's with the addiction I guess it is

also it's kind of she's looking after herself in that regard of actually curbing her addiction because you know you don't want to go to rehab but also yeah a lack of pleasure elsewhere or a lack of oh it's so difficult to actually and she is kind of the perfect public figure in 2020s and also she is there are lots it's so funny because I think we do speak to and I think a lot of our listeners feel this way but we have quite an evolved thought we all have our own crosses to bear with our bodies or our food, like we've all gone on these journeys and come to quite a good place, but we're still wrestling with it. Me and Beth both used to get stuff done and now we don't and we're constantly like, oh my God, I don't remember we have Botox, but we're like, we're not going to do because we've

like spoken about it. So we're being honest, but we're also, there are lots of women who aren't engaging at that place and are still very much stuck in the like, I am best if I'm the thinest I could ever be, which was a brain that I inhabited from about 11 to 23 and it was an awful, awful time and I just forget that I'm very lucky to be freed from that so there are some people that will read that and not even being encouraged to do what she did but think thank god I'm because it maybe is alienating to some women who haven't who haven't broken free yet maybe some people will find comfort I absolutely I think they will I think she's speaking something that's true and I just I kind of just want to talk to her are you okay just final point is like I miss the hardline feminism

from decades ago where it would just be like to alter your face is to butcher your face and I like having those women who would just be that black and white about it. Because I think we're stuck. I think we're in a loop. We're in a rut. And I think we're just stuck doing this thing of being like, I don't want to make you feel bad. But also, like, you're making me feel bad.

And we're making each other feel bad. And I'm going to pretend I've not done it by have. And that's kind of worse. Like, I feel like the urge almost on this podcast to say, I will never get any work done. But I'm scared to commit to that. And that's a problem. I need somebody to do it.

And I really want to be that person, but it's hard. Can I write you through some of my favorite Caroline Caroline moment? I completely do well. So when she was living in that apartment, and she painted the whole floor white and she didn't move so instead of moving parts of clothing painted around them she moved to stuff and it was just Adderall ADHD queen well she did and she'd I think the fact that she talks about she went oh I was on you know I was abusing Adderall or I was going in a hyperfixation and she talks about these things I do think she is the most transparent

queen so I like that a lot is Adderall ADHD medication yes yeah I can't remember the equivalent I think it's not perfect equivalent in the UK but it's a it's a stimulant medication of which you can be prescribed something similar in the UK well I'm on ADHD medication but I can't imagine that making me do no, and I think it's abusing rather than, you'd have to take a lot of that. The other one when she did the Vanity Fair interview where she admitted to the person

profiling her that she had just taken magic mushrooms, the writer was a bit annoyed because she says, are you just going to be too high to answer questions? She says, I'll be fine. Five minutes later, she says, oh, I'm too high to answer question. Amazing profile. Again, we will link that. And the last one that I've got on here, which I did just sort of mention, is where she refused to evacuate

Hurricane Milton. So that is what I was talking about. I miss misinformation. It was not the L.O. L. L.L. Fars that everyone knows. misinformation of it, yes. So those are mine. And I like her a lot. I think, Caroline, if you're listening to this, we would love to have you on. And I hope this has been, if anyone disagrees as well, because I do, for full transparency, there were bits in there when I was, I was about to comment on her body and say, but she's so thin. And I realized my own thinking is through this lens. It's very difficult to get this bang on right, be a good feminist, but also be a good feminist

on her behalf, but also on the behalf of the people, her readers and myself. It's so impossible. It's an impossible situation. But also for anyone listening being thinner is not the answer and you always think, I think it's the first thing a woman's brain does because of the way we've been socialised and lots of men, but the first thing you do something goes wrong and you're like, if I could be thinner and I can promise you from years of going

down that road and hammering that nail that it actually literally never is nothing to do with that. And also it never ends. It never ends. Next up, are we in an Olivia Wild Renaissance? Have we as a society forgiven her? And if so, why? And why was she so disliked in the first place? Was it because she divorced fan favourite and alleged nice guy Jason Sudakis,

while rumours of an affair swelled? Was it her relationship with beloved pop star Harry Stiles, who is 10 years her junior? Was it the rumours of a castrift and beef with Florence Pugh on her film? Don't worry, darling. Or was it her handling of Shailabu's exit from the film? After claiming that she'd fired him to protect the cast, a leaked video showed her begging him to stay,

saying, I'm heartbroken and I want to figure this out. And I think this might be a bit of a wake-up call for Ms. Flo. And I want to know if you're open to giving this a shot with me, with us. So I mentioned this a few Fridays ago. I went to a screening of Olivia Wilde's new film, The Invite, which is out now. And in the film, she stars alongside Seth Rogen, Penelope Cruz and Edward Norton. The plot follows a dinner party where a quite buttoned-up couple, let's say, Rogan and Wild invite a more adventurous couple, Cruise and Norton over.

And shit gets pretty weird very fast. So I recommended this. I thought the film was spectacular. I thought it was funny. I thought it was moving. I thought it was deeply profound on marriage and relationships and this idea of how you can lose yourself and lose a sense of curiosity and in the process

just go to really resent the person you're with. And how sad, how fucking deeply sad that can be. The more I think about it, the more conversations I have about it, the more I think it's just one of the best films of this year. Anoni, I know you've seen it recently. What did you think? So it didn't say at the top, because I knew we were going to be talking about it,

but yes, I went and saw the invite earlier this week, and from the minute I saw the trailer, I was like, oh my God, this is like such a great film. And it blew me away. It really did, because it's so much more than what the trailer presents it's going to be. It has all of that in it, but it's such a good... And I said this, I text you guys after,

but the whole time I was watching, I was thinking about Esther Perel, and then the credits came on, and she is a... I think she was a consultant, that's it. So she was a consultant on the film, and I was like, that is so funny, because it's literally... You know that thing of rip and repair that she talks about?

that kind of thing there's something that happens like that on screen and I was I'd kind of forgotten until we were talking about doing this episode

why I had also gone a bit off wild and it was because of that Shia Le Booth thing it was because that miss flow which really took off and I had filed it away

forgotten about that and thought I just didn't like Safari Stiles and I thought that's weird why do I care but watching this film seeing how incredible

of an actor she is and such an incredible direction it has I have to say warmed my cockles you're wild about wild yeah yeah well I keep finding

myself obviously I've not seen this film yet I'm dying too because so many people, including you guys, were like, it's one of the best I've seen, it's very, it's great. I've been thinking, why do I not, I don't feel coldly towards her, why don't I feel warmer because I really like her output?

I love Booksmart. I loved her in her in a kind of category of the Anne Hathaway. It's people that I just unproblematically like, and actress of a certain age. And I do think that the programming of the bad press, I mean, we'll get into this, but there was so many rumours about her and Harris-Styles. There was a whole Jason Sudeikas thing where he,

well, not he, but his lawyer, She was served papers on stage. Remember this? That's bad for her, though. She didn't do anything well. No, she didn't, but I think people... But it's humiliating. People basically sided with him because they went,

oh, she is the bad woman in this. And I do think that made... Somehow he came out of that unscathed. So, I mean, in the call-her-daddy interview, which she did recently and around the time, she says she believes he didn't know about this. But it basically boiled down to the lawyers were acting in ways that lawyers will.

But she was really humiliated by this, but still it didn't cause people to come out. Maybe it's the whole Amber Heard thing of just like a woman can be demonstrated to have been. harmed by a system or a person and we still think who cares. I just was, I really interrogated, why am I not more wild about wild? I think in a post Amber heard, Blake lively, Justin Baldoni lawsuit thing, I can also see

how the internet just became a cesspit and it really became so inflammatory in similar ways. I'm not saying it was bots. I'm not saying it was like orchestrated campaigns, but I am saying there is definitely a flavour that feels of the same ilk where it just got so out of control and it felt like she became so villainy. when you look back in hindsight for things which don't really feel like they equate to what treatment she got. I think also there was this sense of Harry Styles fans are very intense, I would say. They have previously the One Direction fans ruined multiple members' lives and relationships over and over and over again. And I feel like with a sense of him being paired

with her, there was also a lot of this, oh, who does she think she is? Dating younger is embarrassing. She's like an embarrassing woman and just like a lot of that misogyny directed to water. I think the don't worry darling was a fucking mess. Spickgate do you think he spout on him? Oh that's such a good question. No she says she says she's like we couldn't believe it apparently they want to play and they landed and their agent was like by the way

guys there's this thing going like wildfire on me sure and they all watched it and they were like what? Isn't it so funny though? Apparently what it was was like a piece of dust or a speck of light or something just happened at the exact moment that Harry looked at Chris Fine and he looked into his lap and he yeah and so they said she said that they'd been on the flight and during that time when they weren't online

it had all blown up and then yeah no that is ridiculous i just i feel like she got a really bad go at it and i think to know that she also directed booksmart which i forgot because the internet removed that context around her there was this idea of her just being this silly woman directing a film who does she think she is also dating with the hottest guys around you know hot singer who does she think she is well she got womaned she got woman to rain fresher quinnett but at the same time now i look back i'm like that shylebooth thing did because obviously we used he's an own abuser, that is legit, that is bad, that misflow thing. And people love Florence Pius.

So that, I think, was part of the thing. And also the drama around the cast, it was crazy. It was like all everyone was talking about. They'd all like unfollowed each other. They weren't talking to people weren't talking to Chris Pines. Everyone was talking. But then I did listen to her in Lue through and I told Beth not to listen because she hasn't seen the film.

So if you haven't seen the film, maybe don't listen to that episode. But if you have an amazing episode, and maybe it doesn't spoil it too much, but there's bits that maybe it's better not to. But she talks about that and she talks about how, I actually enjoy, don't worry, darling when I went to see it. but I had put two and she together about some of the things she talks about. So she said actually loads of it is born from this in-cell idea.

It was kind of like an in-cells we imagined ideal world. And it was sort of set in like, is it Palm Springs like that? And so she was talking about how these are the conversations she thought she was going to be having after the film came out. And then all she was talking about was the cast. She said that was kind of crazy. It is crazy. But now I'm kind of in two minds of garum where Jason's Dacus is such a...

He's a mom's stepping up. He's that kind of man. We all love him. He's a nice guy. He feels like a nice guy. Do you not think? I think now reassessing it, anyone who brands themselves the nice guy post Justin Baldoni, I'm like, oh.

No, sorry, I don't think he, but I think in the public consciousness, he's a cute, he's a cute, nice guy, he's a dad, his sweet man. I'm not saying that's who he is, I'm saying that's who he, where he fits. He's been mad, basically. She's been mad, he's been mad. So it was so easy to see that dynamic. But then I'm like, did she have an affair? But whatever, we've spoken about this, absolutely no one else's business.

People are having affairs. Well, can we touch on this? Because it's basically been scrapped on the internet, but I saw it with my two fair eyes. there was a profile with one of their former nannies and both Jason and Olivia has said, no, this is BS, but she came out and she had this, maybe it was complete nonsense story where Olivia Wilde had, allegedly made this salad dressing for Harry Stiles,

and then Jason Siddakis, allegedly, this is a rumour, lay in front of the car, and this has been, basically they both said, no, it's bullshit, it was a sole story by someone that was making stuff up, but that's how bad it got. There was so many of these rumors that she, there was a salad dressing, there was a car, there was a nanny. It was a complete, it was a, circus. It was a circus. We were the clowns. I do feel really guilty. And even to say, I don't feel like I,

I don't think I got into the mindset of thinking who is a silly woman, but I definitely was like, oh, you know, she's not a great director. And I just don't agree with that. Like, having watched this film, even I feel like, oh God, like, I really need to look at myself in the mirror and just see how even flex of that internet discourse can maybe draw me in a direction, you know? Yeah, because I don't think I have said anything publicly negative about her. And I don't think I actively actually felt badly towards her, but I do remember feeling something about the Miss Flo thing. I remember that making me, I think I actually

felt sad. Maybe you were just protective over a younger actress and then there was an allegedly abusive man. But also, I did like Olivia Wilde. I loved her in the O.C. Like, I was such a big fan of how I watched her in the house. And so I think I remember when that happened, I thought, oh no, because when it's kind of like a woman standing with it's almost like there's no grey. In my mind

I remember thinking that. But now I wonder like when was that late. Like we don't actually know the... I think it was Hollywood business. It is her shmoo. a difficult act. In my opinion, my take is she's schmoozing a difficult actor. So her film, where all of these people have been hired, hundreds of members of the crew have been hired, don't lose their jobs and this whole film falls through. Basically, that's my take on it. An imperfect act, but she's getting way harder time for this. As we said before,

a man could beat his wife in Hollywood. He would get a less severe punishment. And in fact, they'd blame the wife. A hundred percent. And also, any auto or director will have multiple films which are not their best films, and they will still be classed the best in the game. She's done three films. two of which have been runaway successes, one of which wasn't my favourite film, but still could convince me and could convince lots of people

that she's not a good director. I feel like I need to look at myself in the mirror a bit because I do feel quite guilty. Did either of you listen to the call her daddy interview between Olivia Wilde and Alex Cooper? I only watch clips. I think the clips are the most interesting part, so they do, the clipped bit is about dating Harry Stars.

And I think the ageism of, she really nails it. So she says, quote, I understand that had very little, and what she's talking about is the madness of Harry Styles fans. I understand that had very little to do with me, people were fucking pissed. I think that it also had a lot to do with the parissocial relationship people have slash had with him, which is a burden that it's very weighty and not something I envy. He carries it with grace. I think that's an enormous responsibility that all those stars have to carry and it's fucking impossible. I don't know.

It's wild because we have the loveliest relationship, so sweet and so beautiful and really actually very domestic and kind and lovely. And I think we existed in this little bubble and the judgment never really got into that bubble, which was a miracle, a testament to us making it happen. I think that people were mad. It's almost like the happiness made them mad. I would go to a shows and dance and people were like, oh, how could she? You slut, you fucking slut. You're like, how dare you dance and smile? End quote. I think that to me, I went, wow, I only saw, I never really understood that relationship

because I don't think they've posted about it. I only saw the vitriol. It sounds like it was a really lovely thing. It's really sweet. It's mature, isn't it? Why did they break up? We don't know. He was meant to be with Zoe Kravitz.

I experienced her in this press round to be a really considerate, very thoughtful, very, like, introspective, fair person. Like even with the backlash that she got during that Louis Theroux interview, she makes it a point about mass culture, lack of critical thinking. She never makes it individualistic about people letting her down, even though she could 100% say that. I just, I find her very interesting and I'm sure she will inbue many of her future films with very interesting takes.

She, yeah, in that Louvreuthy document, she talks about, she's like, sorry, interview, she's like, I just didn't know. She's like, I didn't know that this could happen. I never been exposed. that level of fame. She's like talking about her and she was like basically this is something that happens to everyone. I was just naive to think it kind of wouldn't happen to me. But with the, I look back on don't worry darling and I think it was much more ambitious than we were allowed to entertain because you're right. It got stripped back down to this sort of like stupid direct. Everyone

was ready to pan it because of everything else it was going on. But I actually do remember enjoying it and I think I remember saying because I liked it and people at the time were like, it's way too long, but it's entertaining. They were like, you can't like that because it's not good. because in the mind of the public, we've all cast Olivia Wilde as like persona non grata, but when you watch the invite, Ritra will attest it is just brilliant direction, brilliant acting from her.

And I think that now she hopefully, I think she's like cross the Rubicon in terms of she's going to be able to move past this. She set her flag in the sand. Is that the phrase? Sure. For us for this. She's done something.

She's, and I think she's moved. She's like, there was a before and there's an after and I think she's in the after. And I think it's a real shame that happened to her. but like a phoenix rising out of the ashes how many metaphors and similes do I want to use? Another one, please.

She is now. Let's finish the loyalty card. I can't think another one. I think actually, if anything, it might have emboldened her. Maybe it'll give her a strength to sometimes when you're scorned, it's like, okay, well, what are you going to say next?

And I think that hopefully she'll do something really exciting. And that film, I know that Ruchero gave the Odyssey five stars at the top. I saw them both over the course of three days. I went to one on Saturday, one on Monday. I think I loved the Odyssey, but in terms of like films that I think are going to stick with me, I think the invite more.

Yeah. The one thing I'll say is, I kind of am left with this feeling of how sad that she had to prove herself for us to get here. And I really felt like the onus was on her to prove herself artistically and to prove that she has a brain. After all of that, to be considered worth conversation, to be considered somebody worth people's time. And I'm just left with this feeling that women will have to prove themselves over and over and over again. And men just do not have that at all. I was about to say it in this is a really short point, but every woman, like Emily Roshikovsky's whole lifelong dream

is just to be taken seriously even though she should be but she's got big breasts so I hate to do this game but she has also there's a world in which some women couldn't come back from that even though we still we're now saying actually maybe it was I mean the tough thing with her is she was a very young beautiful woman wasn't taking seriously because of this now

she's still a very beautiful woman she's slightly older and you know her appearance is still the story I think she's got such a level of grace and it's like she has to go through pain but also be gracious about it I mean at the time of the serving of the papers in front of that crowd she was having to be gracious to Jason Sudeikas and his legal team. And then, I mean, in the call her daddy interview, she does say, and she says a lovely thing.

She believes that he didn't. She says, Jason has told me that he did not know and I need to believe that in order to continue. But I think that people are never their best selves when they're engaged in that kind of process. And it was so fucked up in many ways. I know that whether or not he knew what was going to happen. I know it really hurt him to see it happening to me that he felt really bad. So I mean, she's so great. When, ever is, we do expect a man to flay themselves and be so gracious.

and so bend the knee, people have treated her like shit and she's still going, that's the father of my children, I believe him, I just think I really do, I try not to really love and like famous women, but I do, I really like her. Like you, Svetra, on this press one, you just think, what generous, really thoughtful, and like it's very in the school of Sperl,

sort of like she's actually zooming out and going, hmm, that's interesting, like, why do they feel that way? It's a shame that I was sort of afflicted by it, but this is a weapon that's used against people and how interesting that I've been. I think it's going to strengthen her artistry and I'm really interested to see what she does, but I agree.

you. I like her. I still think the Shilaboo thing is a little... Sure. Everyone's capable of doing bad things professionally. Yeah. Of everything we said, that's still a shit problem, I think. This was 2019. I like to think that people are capable of changing. She speaks on that. And actually, I can't remember she spoke on that. Also, I don't think she's actually ever spoken about. We don't necessarily know that the leaked video was all the context of. So she is... Uncanceled on E, I see. She is precisely. Thank you so much for listening this week. I'm sorry, it's been so chaotic. If you haven't already, make sure you've listened to our latest Everything and Conversation episode,

where we ask if being a bitch is good for women's health. If you enjoy the podcast and even if you didn't enjoy this one, you have to say that you did because of what we've been through to get here. Please do leave us a rating and a review wherever you're listening to this right now. It is one of the best ways and easiest ways to keep us going and to boost our morale so we keep on making the show. You can also follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Everything is ContentPod. And we are getting more visual guys. So please do hit that follow button because we will.

have some videos hopefully today but we don't know actually it's got a lot of technical problems we might not fit play see you next week bye