Everything Is Content - Channing Tatum's Burner, Kylie Jenner's Jet & Stalker Mums

Episode Date: September 25, 2026

Hello EICucumbers…We’re all back and we’ve peeled Beth away from Vanderpump Rules to record this week’s episode of the podcast for you…We’re piling in on the internet’s hot debate of the week - is it unprofessional to bring an iced coffee to a job interview? Matcha girls, prepare to be outraged… because we have strong opinions on this one.EmRata has joined the ever growing list of celebrities advertising the prediction market PolyMarket. Does everyone have a price? We discuss how - when it comes to prediction markets - almost everyone loses.Oenone’s been within touching distance of Sharon Horgan this week - we swoon over her and take a look at her new series Youth.And - the mums are on SnapMaps… would you let your parents track you at Freshers Week? A mum has gone viral this week for detailing how she spies on her teenage son in a piece for The Times. We examine the dangers of surveillance and how location trackers may do more harm than good.Stick around to the end of the episode to hear an announcement about our future plans for the podcast. Thank you so much for your support - whether that’s listening every week, contributing, following us or leaving a review… we appreciate you all. Love ya, O, R, B xRuchira's been loving:Maggie Nelson - The Argonauts ,Bangerz Beth's been loving: Fire of LoveOenone's been loving:Tracey Emin - Strangeland ,The Gentlemen ,Lost LambsMaggie Nelson - BluetsWSJ - Why Almost Everyone Loses—Except a Few Sharks—on Prediction Markets at freshers week — and I’m not the only one EIC - The Girlification of BettingWSJ - Helicopter Parents Are Co-Piloting Their Adult Children’s Careers Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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I'm Beth. I'm Richerra. And I'm Anoni. And this is Everything is Content. that takes the stariest, silliest, most sensationalist stories from the week and gets into the discourse. From sitcoms to Silicon Valley, Polycules to Polymarket, literary drama to legislation. We cover it all and everything in between. With a one-stop shop for your content convenience.

This week on the podcast, which celebrity won't shell for gambling sites? Sharon Hogan's got a new show and the mums are on snap maps, plus an announcement from us at the end of the pod, which you might not want to miss. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok and Substack at Everything is Content Pod and please make sure you hit follow on your podcast player app so you never miss an episode. Oh, well, I'm so excited to get to ask you both. What have you been loving this week? I have been missing you very much, but I have been listening as a fan, which is always a dream.

I don't want to pick on either of you. Someone volunteer yourselves. Who's got the heart most full of love, Richieira? I don't know if that's true, but I will put myself forward as What's it in Hunger Games? Tribute. Tribute. I'll be tribute. Okay, so I feel like I just have to be honest. I have been watching so much reality TV.

That's not what I'm going to recommend. But Bravo is almost in its Premier League-like status right now. So many of the shows are here. And they have this thing called Ultimate Girls Trip, which is the 20th anniversary of Housewives. So they've got all the biggest players on holiday together, and that's weekly. So I have been watching that.

I'm not recommending it. putting that out there, but much like having some vegetable on the side of a plate of junk food, I've been reading Maggie Nelson's The Argonauts. And I feel like hopefully, pray for me, hopefully that's undoing some of the damage I'm doing to my brain cells. That first thing is so outside of my remit that I think I would just, I would just explode if I tried to engage, I think. Let's just ignore everything I said at the beginning. The Argonauts. It's my first Maggie Nelson book that I've read and I'm really enjoying it and it's essentially a meditation on her going through pregnancy and motherhood as her partner transitions. It blends memoir with a lot of theory around

motherhood, gender, sexuality, loads of things. And A, her writing style is just so beautiful. It's so singular. And the second thing is, as somebody who thinks about gender, motherhood, being a parent, having a child in these very big terms, because it's not very literal for me right now. I really appreciate somebody almost going through the journey, but also engaging with that side of things, because sometimes I do think, do I overthink everything? And then I read a book like this and I think, no, it is really beautiful to overthink it. There's a joy and a beauty and a love in caring that deeply about the idea of motherhood alongside actually giving birth to a child.

Have either of you read this? No, but it sounds great. I don't know if I've read any Maggie. Are there any books of hers that we might have read? Blue It's one of my favorite books. And that's actually the only Maggie I've read. So I'm really keen to kind of be pushed towards new Maggie because Blue It's is a novel. Because Blue It's is kind of like prose, poetry.

It's quite experimental. It's sort of a list about blue and feeling and love and heartbreak and death and stuff. And I read it and was like, fuck me. That was so unusual. But it was not like anything I'd read before. are you getting that vibe with Argonauts? You're like, wow, she's playing with with form. It's less experimental, I think, than that. That I do know to be just this wildly abstract, different kind of type of writing. But this is kind of in a similar genre to in the

Dreamhouse, which I know we both read and we loved. And I know you did it as well, Noni. It is just memoir, but it's also just so much theory that it kind of feels like reading a book, reviewing lots of the theory of other critics. Like Freud comes up. There's lots of sedway in it. There's loads of people being discussed. And then you have these slippery moments of her bringing in her own experience. So it has the thread of her life, but it's mostly theory, to be honest. I think you both would really like it. I love anything motherhood related, as you know. Exactly. I also would recommend an only that you read Blue. It's not a particularly big book. And it is basically kind of a list about Blue. and it's got she talks about Jenny Mitchell's blue but also Eve Klein blue so kind of like blue in

the art world and how blue was this really rarefied color and I know that you're you're a painter you have this this interest and I just think you would find it very fascinating same with you you're at your chair I just think it's one you pick up read all the way through and then you feel just changed by I think it's so gorgeous there's a quote that I always there's so many quotes in it that when I was in my kind of like tumbler sad girl era that I would like write in the in the margins of other books or like write to postcards to people and it's just like It's just so romantic. And I think Maggie Nelson, I always get her confused with Maggie Smith, but not who people get

confused with the other Maggie Smith. There's a, there's a writer who wrote that amazing poem that was about walking through, I'm going to forget the name, but like walking through a house and being like, treat the world like a, I'm completely messing this up. Let me find it before I go on a complete question. I know what you're talking about. With Bluitz, was that, was that of the Tumblr era? Is that when it came out?

Is it old? I don't, I've just literally never heard of it. Blue It was 2006, I think. and then this book Argonauts was about 10, 11 years ago. Oh, wow, it's only 10 years ago. Yeah, it's timeless. Wow. What made you come to it, Ritura?

So she was on my list of writers that I really wanted to visit because I just, I feel like now I'm fully back into reading. There's so much catching up I have to do of things that I know are really good, things that people have mentioned. It just feels kind of overwhelming. And the way I deal with that is, rather than just having an endless list every few months, I just add to my iPhone notes. These are the writers that I feel like right now in the next month.

I'll come back to eliminate and then just keep doing that. With her, I remember Annie Lord when we had a trip to Lisbon really soon after the breakup that inspired notes on Heartbreak. She was reading Bluets and she was like, this is killing me. It's so inspiring. I'm really loving it. I think that just brought a lot to her. So I just remember thinking I need to read Maggie Nelson. So thank you, Annie Lord, if you're listening to this.

I love that. To close my Maggie loop The perm I was thinking of Was Good Bones by Maggie Smith I love this poem yeah Sort of ends Life is short in the world It's at least half terrible

Every kind stranger There is one who would break you Though I keep this from my children I'm trying to sell them the world Any decent realter Walking you through a real shit hole Churps on about good bones This place could be beautiful right

You could make this place beautiful Which is just timeless God there are so many Maggie's I've never met a bad Maggie I'll say that right now Oh Maggie Thatcher But we don't talk about her By the way I love that poem

gives me goosebumps because I know it even though I know you didn't read the whole thing. I remember it. We'll put that in the show notes because, oh, you must. Was that all of your lovings, Richard? They were very good. I have one more,

which is bangers by Miley Cyrus. And your laugh in my face. I have never listened to that beginning to end. I listened to it beginning to end. And my goodness, a no-skip bloody album, a rarity in 2026. I know it's not new.

If this came out this summer, it would be the album of the summer. I just think I'm on a bit of a journey. I'm going to catch up to both books I should have read and albums I should have listened to when I was younger. And that was my first one and my God, what an album. I mean, Mali is just the love of my life. That being said, this is terrible.

I forgot. I keep meaning to listen to her new album. Yes, I know. And I haven't. Absolutely forgot. So that's terrible. Not a very good fan am I? But yeah, bangers is full of bangers.

I think I'm a bit of a what they called Smilers. Oh, is that what her fans are? I think they're called Smilies or Smilies or something. Petitou Smilies, I don't know. But I actually, I think I really am one. I really revisit her live album a lot. And there's been some conversation about her lately because she was in, she's an interview. She's writing her album, but she's talking about how she does not like to tour, similar to Charlie X, X, X, X, and so she just stays put and her fans come to her.

And people are like, well, she's being honest, but she probably shouldn't say that out loud because you're meant to be really great. When this recording artist and be like, I want to see my fans in Brazil. I want to go. And she's like, I don't really want to go to Brazil. I want to perform where I live. and people will come to me, which makes me kind of sad because I really want to see her perform, but I'm not going to California anytime soon.

She literally looked you in the eyes and she was like, I am not coming to London or the UK, let alone Wales. I would go to Glasbury with Miley. Has she ever done Glastonbury? Surely that's lovely. Not sure she has. I don't think she has, you know. That would be a big get for them.

I would go. I mean, as you know, I'm not, don't like it. We did discuss that while you're away. We're not festival girls unless Miley's performing or someone wants to hello. talk to us in. Well, watch this space. I actually, because I went to a festival and I was glamping and I was only there for two days and we got driven in in a car and even then I was like I don't like this. At that point, what are you not liking about? I know. I was think the other thing that was so

funny was I actually really enjoyed being in the tent. So that wasn't even my problem because I was thinking, oh, I'd love to be in this tent like in a, in like a beautiful forest. I think it maybe is just the over-stimination of it all. And I said to my friend Popperia was like, the other thing is I think I found the idea of having to dress up. I think I'd feel happier if I went to just go in hiking gear. That's, I think, what would make me happy. I think I just have to go in a raincoat, wellies and trousers, not wear any makeup. I think it's too many things that are trying to happen at a festival at the same time.

Like you're trying to be hot and you're trying to listen to music. And, you know, you could do yoga. I can't. It's too much. Did I tell you my hack for the two years I went to Glastonbury, which was spent age of the first year, just being like, oh, right, what's comfortable? What will I wear? Wrote my packing list.

And the second year, I just went to the packing list. and I've packed all the same, exactly the same outfits. I just did exactly the same thing twice. And I went, what a relief. The mental loads that took off me. And so I think I don't really fit any of those clothes in more, but I think that's what I will do. Just go, right, comfy outfit day one,

comfy outfit day two, maybe re-wear on day three. So simple. When you're not glam, life opens up. Oh, that's so smart. Yeah, I think it's true. That is probably one of the best bits of wisdom I've heard in a while. What else have you got to share with us, Beth? The thing that I have been loving,

obviously it is Vanderpump Rules, but I'm putting that, I'm assuming that, I'm putting it to aside, although I will say so much, I've watched so much lately. Go on, give us a bit, go on. I'm worried about Jacks Taylor. He's married now. He's starting to exhibit more signs of aggression. Something's going on there.

Sheen has got a horrible, very scary doppel gang. I mean, she's only scary how much she looks like her. I'm just worried about everyone. So I'm really stressed. So I had to unwind from my beloved. I'm embarrassed to say, but I think it's about a something. You're on like four last time I saw you, which was last week. Scandible is the last kind of reality TV that I properly engaged with.

And then since then I've really disengaged. But it was, God, I can't wait for you to get there. I'm barreling towards it at speed. Yeah. It could be any minute now, which I will report on the pod. I was, I'm looking out at the moment for a good Van Pomperewerewerewerewerex podcast. So if anyone has one, because it's actually quite a few.

And I don't want to waste my one wild and precious life. well, I am wasting a little bit on the wrong rewatch podcast. God, that is a sentence. No one in my bloodline has ever said before. I listened to one during Scandible and I'll have to find out what it was because I couldn't get enough. I was so obsessed that I then started listening to a complimentary podcast as it was happening. So I'll try and remember what that was for you. I can't wait. So I am trying to take a break from VPR to watch a documentary on Disney Plus called Fire of Love, which came out in 2022, which is an independent documentary that was directed producing, written by Sarah Dosa and it premiered at Sundance Film Festival in 2022.

I did just say that I'm saying it again. And basically I'd heard of this. My boyfriend was like, we're going to watch this, we're going to watch this. And I kept being like, I don't want to watch a documentary today. And then we'll watch True Detective, whatever. He stuck it on the other night. And it was just fantastic. It follows a story of two French volcanologists who are also a married couple called

Maurice Craft and Katia Craft, who basically became legendary in the world of volcanoes and volcanology for their willingness to just go so close to volcanoes in various states and film them, photograph them, get so close, you know, take all these samples. They are obsessed with volcanoes. They are like true blue volcano lovers and they just, they don't want to be anywhere else, but traipsing around volcanoes. Like when they have to come home to make the films and regroup and do the lectures and things, you can tell that they don't really want to be there. And the film is made up of their footage because they were taking so much film and so many photos. And where the viewer meets them is in 1991 on the last day that they are alive, which is not a spoiler. That is how the

film opens. It's so beautifully shot. It's very Wes Anderson almost. You're kind of like, fuck, this looks so timeless. And it's filmed in the 70s, the 80s in, you know, remote locations with this lava bubbling away in the background. And it's just, it's breathtaking. It's really quirky. It's really fun. There's this moment where they're visiting the most sulfuric acid deposit lake in the world. I think the pH is as strong as car battery acid. And he goes, I'm going to go out there in a rubber dinghy. He goes out there in a rubber dinghy, they get into trouble. She's on the sidelines being up for fuck's sake, my husband, because she is a chemist. He is a geologist. I think she's maybe a geochemist. That's their kind of academic background. And she's like, he's like,

a chemist wouldn't do this, but I will do this. He wants to, one of his life goals is to canoe. down a lava flume while the lava is beneath him. It's madness, but these people are so interesting. It feels like watching the last example of, like a generation that was genuinely interested in stuff and going out and doing it and not living just this two-screen lifestyle. And it's so good. And it's just like a love story. And final thing, it is narrated by our friend Miranda July, who has the most interesting accent. I listened to all four. So I was like, oh yeah she's got a really interesting deep throaty accent and she does a fantastic job here and i just i watched anyone if you guys haven't seen this or if this hasn't seen this it is absolutely stunning oh i'm

going to literally watch that this weekend that is my bag i love really niche world documentaries like i mentioned free solo ages ago and that introduced me to the world of just people who climb without any kind of equipment to hold them or keep them safe this sounds like my next Thank you. Mad people. It sounds so good. I loved Free Solo. That's such squeaky bum time Free Solo.

I watched that in cinema. Oh my God. And my sphinx show was, I don't know. It just went away. I just disappeared. It was gone. Down the road. Why is Miranda July?

That's so random, isn't it? Do you not get? Sometimes I'm listening, do you ever listen to like a podcasting? Because, you know, people's voices are so recognisable. And you're like, that's all no Porter. Why is she? But Miranda July, that feels very random. I know.

I think maybe they, must have been in this sort of same creative or maybe she is just a narrator in another life and we just aren't watching worldly stuff and she's out there doing this because she has got a really distinct if anyone listened to Or Falls or any of her other books you'll know what I mean it's so it's almost sounds like and I don't mean this is an insult but sort of so it's painful to speak it's very oh wow it's just wonderful she's got a really distinct it's kind of thing that probably grates on certain men because it's a very distinctive voice but I just can't go enough And only what have you been loving, if you have been loving anything over your little sojourn from the podcast?

So, well, I listened to three quarters of lost lands as an audiobook because I was using my Spotify hours and then they ran out. So I've got to wait until next month, so I can finish it. Oh, no. And I don't know what I expected is I think I've come into it too aware of like everyone's critique of it. But I am finding it really interesting as a concept and I am sort of enjoying it. but I wonder if a bit of it is lot. It feels quite caricatory when you listen to the audiobook. I don't know if that happens as much in the reading of it.

But then I got a bit fascinated and I started reading. I also now don't know what. A substack's really confusing. We can talk about this another time, but that platform has kind of changed. I don't really understand how that works. But I engaged with a piece that someone had written kind of tearing apart her writing. And then I got fed loads of pieces critiquing Los Lands,

which I found quite interesting. But I need to finish the whole book before I can have a son of it. But I was enjoying that. I went kind of nuts the other weekend. and did the most deep of deep cleaning of mine and my partner's flat that you've ever seen and threw away so many things. It was really nice. And listened to Lost Lambs.

So that was my first thing. I would recommend, but haven't finished. The second thing is, and obviously Ruchera had recommended Tracy Emmons' exhibition, and I had that in the back of my mind. I was, I'm going to go. I had a copy of Strangeland that I'd been sent last year,

or like whenever that came out, it's 20 years after she first wrote it. And I started reading it, and I read it in one sitting the other morning, and I was so moved. that woman's life is unbelievably crazy and I thought great I'll go to the exhibition and the exhibition is over so I was absolutely almost cried the seven stages that I missed that I know but then it is on from October until April in Denmark so I was like I'm gonna just go yeah

I'm gonna go to Denmark in March so I loved that book I can't oh god I didn't really know I knew bits and pieces about her life but oh my god that book is it's harrowing but it's also what an incredible she's such an incredible writer. It's so interesting. It tracks her journey of growing up in Margate and she kind of has this riches life for a little bit of time where her dad owns this incredible hotel and then he loses it and leaves her mom and then she experiences all sorts of awful sexual abuse and assault from a really young age. And then it talks about like her going to Turkey and seeing her dad and anyway, it's amazing. So really recommend that. And then I went on like a rabbit hole of listening to her on every podcast and her on The Guilty Feminist is really funny because

She's just constantly disagreeing with Deborah Francis White. I don't know if you listened to the episode. But everything Deborah says, Tracy's like, no, that's not right. This is not like, it's really, it's really, it's really, really enjoyed that. There's actually been so many things, but the last thing is so basic, but I can't explain to you how much I fucking love the gentleman. Did you guys ever get into it? I can't remember. I never started it, which is weird because I love Keos Scolidero, aka Effie from Skins, years ago.

But I don't know why. I have this weird block. against watching that show and I can't explain why. Yeah, it's so Guy Ritchie and I forgot because I can't remember. I think the last series came out like a couple years ago. So I put it on, it was on like, again, I think it was on a Sunday. I was cooking. I was doing something.

It wasn't really concentrating. And I almost had to turn it off because I cannot explain to the dialogue. Like the writing is mad. The exhibition is crazy. I was actually Googling like, do people think that all the acts in this are atrocious? And then you kind of get into it and you go, oh, that's just, that's just Guy Ritchie. Like, that is the thing. And then once you get past that, it's like,

so compulsive and Maya Jammer's in this series and it's so stupid but yeah she's in it she's great she's she good she is and you know what's so funny I forgot because I then started re-watching loads of sitcoms around it because I've got obsessed no idea of being them meant to be doing something else and I rewatched Catherine Ryan's sitcom and she's in my jammer's in that as well like a cameo you remember didn't reach all the way to the end I went oh it was a good like the duchess the duchess yeah it was fun about the gentleman is it's shot on these like beautiful stately her homes, everyone's got crazy outfits on. I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous, but everyone's very sexy, very hot, nice outfits. It's all about, like, essentially this lord who his father dies,

and so he takes over the estate and it turns out that they're running, like, a massive drug dealing operation, like, under the grounds of the house. You've just got to watch it. It's just good. It's good telly. Okay, I'll try and get over my block, my unnamed block. With Lost Lambs, I'm so intrigued to hear what you think, because I read it without any of the commentary. seeing it after, I'm finding it really interesting because I can't remember if I said this when I did my brief review of it, but it kind of feels like a children's book for adults. But I didn't mind that. I didn't mind that they're not anywhere near realistic characters or like deeply fleshed out. I kind of thought it was like, I thought it's just a bit silly and I thought it's quite enjoyable. But there's been so much commentary about it. And I think it's mostly because the writer has since been called the voice for generations. and all the classic things that happened to mostly white authors. But I really want to get into loads of the essays talking about that. So if you can send me a few, I'd really like that.

I will. You're right. And loads of the pushback has been because she's won all these awards. And so there's the one I read that was literally picking apart her sentences. It was like sentence by sentence level, this is not good enough. Like blah, blah, blah. It is really interesting because I guess it's kind of like a modern state of the nation. She's trying to arrive at this place.

And it does feel like some of the characters are caricatures. But I did think it was like a bit of a riot. I just unfortunately I couldn't enjoy it purely because I was so informed when I was listening to it, which is annoying. But I do need to finish it. Beth, I can't remember. Did we get a trifectra on this? Have you read it? No, I've not read it.

I think I was quite informed by the, when did we discuss this? Was it the week that we discussed the book plagiarism and the potential AI? We went somewhere and we did talk about this. We did talk about it, but we also talked about it privately in like March and one. What's up? I do a book club on this because I do think it's one of those ones that would, in terms of how people receive it, it seems to be very, like, shut up and enjoy it or, God, I could talk about this for 25 minutes because I'm so mad. I think I've got a similar block to Retire's gentleman. Give me a reason to read this and get involved and actually have an opinion and I will. Otherwise, I do fear that it's going to be on the have not read pile for the rest of my life. I've actually got, there's more things, but I'm actually going to, I can't, one can't remember. that was fun show. I wanted to tell you about comment with the name. Save it for next week because, you know, we have our droughts of going, God, I'm watching everything. I love culture. And then next week we're going, I saw a fun bird.

Don't blow your load. It's a mistake we've made before. So I've got something in the EIC waiting room that I want to bring to you guys. Have you seen on TikTok this whole discussion around, is it unprofessional for somebody to bring an ice latte or an iced coffee or ice drink to an interview? Oliver X, Twitter is where I have seen it. I can't. I can't, me too. I can't escape it. Okay. I have a yes or no feeling about this and I kind of need to know what do you think? Is it unprofessional for somebody to sit there with a grande iced bloody latte filled to the brim, straw out to an interview? I'm sorry, I'm a corporate shill. Yes.

I think it's unprofessional. It sits outside of the conventions and the rules for that occasion, which is professionalism. So as much as I don't think, I think, I think. think it's completely arbitrary and silly, but yes, it sits outside of it. We all follow certain rules to work in corporate environments. So yes, it falls under unprofessional, even though what a silly thing. But also that is the way the cookie crumbles. We all have to step into these environments and follow the stupid rules to receive the paycheck. So I think people are being so obtuse about this unless you're about to say otherwise, and in which case you're not obtuse, you're perfect. No. So I'm so amused that you both agree with me because at first I

thought, what a stupid argument. Like how rude. The work. place is such a bullshit environment, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I asked myself one question, how would I feel if somebody sat in front of me with an iced coffee in an interview? And I thought, that's an insurious person right there. I agree. It's so unserious. I don't know why. And I hate this about myself, but it's so unsurious visually, that image. It's not, it's not giving promotion to me in that moment. It's not giving cooperation with the rules of the workplace and also like the understanding that the decisions about to be made, optics are very important to getting the job. Once you got that job, you can, you know, be a personality high. You can roll in

with your ice coffee 14 minutes late. Absolutely fine. But it's the, it's the cost of entry and someone else was kind of going like, it is just optics. Like it's not wrong to have an ice coffee, but you can't have one everywhere. You can't have one at a funeral. You can't have one in a job interview. Those things, you have one before and after. And you say, thank you. I reckon by the time this goes out on Friday, this will still be burning. I think what's so funny is it's like, it's just so unnecessary. I am not that professional because I've never had to be that professional. I am sending kisses and smiley faces in every email that I send. If I go to a meeting, I probably am turning up looking in like a miniskirt and thigh high boots,

but that's fine because I work in an industry where the past I'm meeting is also doing the same thing. This is where I start to think, God, is this old age? You know, when they're like you get more conservative as you get older, I'm not getting more conservative politically. But I think I am getting a bit more like them's the rules. Do you know what I mean? I'm kind of like, I think we've just got to, you've got to wear a smart suit for work. Not a suit, but like you've got to be smart. You can't have a coffee.

Like it's... Choose your battles, isn't it? That's what you learn with age. Conserve your energy. Maybe there's something nice about having certain rules for certain spaces. You just don't. You don't. And it's not worth the kind of like, but I should be able to because it makes no sense.

It doesn't affect my job. Yes, of course. But if you're sitting there slurping, the person that has 50 candidates to hire is going to have to make some subconscious decisions. And these things we know, it's kind of like getting a cheat code. It goes, look, I agree this is silly. But it's not an infringement. of your human rights.

And it will give you the leg up. If you know these conventions ahead of time, you just follow them. And it's like cheat codes. People are going, this isn't fair to autistic people. And you kind of go, well, kind of ridiculous thing to say, because many autistic people are able to, when told the conventions of something, go, okay, doesn't need to make sense. Fine, I'll do that for 15 minutes and get a job. And I just, I'm finding it maddening because it is.

It's like, listen, life is hard. This is not something that you need to take up arms for. Yeah, I think maybe it's a generational thing with Gen Z and millennials thinking about work culture. And I do want very much for Gen Z to continue to dismantle an altar and make things better. But on this, I think just let leave the ice coffee outside. There was a creator who I really love called What Sarah Loves. And she did a bit of a deep dive on it. And I think the thing is, generationally, millennials, boomers, Gen X have been fighting for workplace rights.

And that includes being yourself, being able to be openly quick. gay, whatever, in the workplace, you know, pregnancy rights, maternity leave, all these things. So when we talk about

turning up as our full selves at work, there's the context of all of that. The problem is a lot of Gen Z identity markers. She was saying this, and I do agree, are associated with items,

things like, you know, bag charms, like, are you an aloe girl, are you this, are you that? It's all associated with items. So it might seem silly, but it also shows a generational

divide between what counts as showing up as your full self. for some people that might be being able to come in with an ice drink because that's the kind of person I am. I am a ice latte girly. I'm a matcha girly, whatever. Whereas it just seems to be not a big deal for, I don't know, most people weighing into this argument, I would say, on our side. I remember one of my friends when we first finished uni, she went to work. I wanted a big four finance companies and she went into work without makeup on and someone told her that she looked unprofessional because she didn't have any makeup on. that is something that I would get behind and be like that is absolutely fucking ridiculous. You don't have to wear mascara to be a professional person. And loads of that stuff was still happening at that time when we first entered the workforce.

I know that that's, I think, very much changed now. But I think there were rules and regulations on like having to wear heels, having to have mascara. Your hair had to be neat in inverted commas, which were often like very racialized. So when I think it comes to things like an ice coffee, it's like, guys, I love you. Put the arms down. And the world is, you know, it is increasingly more hostile to young. people and like especially work environments but yeah the ice coffee is we've got to be serious my matcher has rights too can we actually though talk about Channing Tatum and his maybe or maybe not

burner account oh thank you yes I think maybe now we know he didn't but I don't know well I don't know let's believe the thing that's most fun someone noted basically that an account that he was following called bidness nunya ee none your business had been commenting quite a lot on underneath like TMZ, Des Moire, gossip sites, being quite anti-Harey Stiles and Zoe Kravitz, e.g. His Channing Tatum's ex-fiancee. And people were like, oh, who is this? Glicked on it. And it said, followed by Channing Tatum. And people went, oh, business, Nanya, that's Channing Tatum. It only had, I think it followed maybe like 200 or something less accounts and it only had one follower back. That one follower was Channing Tatum is what I saw, which is, it doesn't look good, does it go?

I just think it's so funny. It's really making me think of when Demi Lovato followed a fit British actor, she followed him, liked his post, then posted an underwear. Henry Cavill. That was it. And it's just like, it's that sidebar thing, which we've lost, which is when you could like track everyone's movements and see what they're doing. But this is like, I'm really choosing to believe that it is him. And I think it's really actually quite sweet. It's so, it's so funny. It's so messy. I also feel like there's something in his demeanour that makes me think that he's capable of doing something this catty. And I mean that with deep respect. I mean that as a fellow loki, petty, catty person. I see myself in Channing Tatum in this behaviour. I wouldn't do this. I've not done this before.

Could I do it? I'm not going to say, never say never, you know? Some of the quotes, so one of them he wrote under a post about himself, which was, he's so genuine. No false pretenses with this guy and funny as hell too. The evidence, obviously, that is, I'm just saying this, him. I don't think. I actually think he apparently follows 8,000 accounts and some of them are fan accounts. So the fact that he follows this fan account, if it is a fan account, would make sense. And also the other evidence was there is history of this Bidness Nanya account commenting under Post about Gemini's being like, that's what we're like and Channing Tatum is a torus. So I've gone into the archive here. I've done my research. That's compelling. Unless he's just so galaxy-brained that he went,

I'm not at Gemini. P.I. Beth strikes again. I love it of issue. I love a little bitchy man. I know, me too. Also like a keyboard warrior in a man. I don't know why. It's something. I can't help but stand it, you know. I think they're mostly men to be fair. I think trolls are men and obviously we don't condone. No. Only when it goes in a funny way. And funny as hell too. I know that you guys covered this when I wasn't here. Obviously, the Sydney, sweetly of it all.

And I was really sad that I wasn't able to join in. I just, there was so much coming out of that. I really think that unfortunately we do just have to ignore Sydney and just let her. I mean, I think it's deeply problematic that it's a gambling ad. That was my main issue with it. And actually, Horatio Gould, who's a comedian, I just saw this morning that he'd done this video being like, I'm really upset to find out that one of my favorite actresses has got a tits out in the name of gambling. Like all the right wingers are getting all the good tits. We need a pair of like left wing tits like Emily Raskowski for Palestine.

But, funny enough, Emily Raskowski has just posted and been featured in a pon. market ad alongside other celebrities and I then speaking of the gentleman was getting on the train last night and I put a note in my phone completely spot I name wrong but kaya scotillero was on a billboard for a gambling website and I was like we're struggling but we wouldn't take a gambling ad we've said no to bingo we've been offered that was our first ever year to get off of it in 2023 and we said no no not now not ever I've been Spike Lee LeBron James Derek Jeter like they're getting these people that I know their money is incredibly long. They are rich, rich. And they're basically just going like, we're going to become richer by encouraging people to use these prediction market services,

which cost their money. And it's them trading on uncertainties and losing money. I mean, it's just so annoying. I have fucking rich celebrities that just disappoints me every turn at the moment. Also, this is a separate note, but like Kylie Jenner just released a vlog, which people were like, yikes. And it was just about her. She's just having the time for life. She's got designer clothes out the wazoo. And then she's like, well, I'm just going to go to Europe now. And she gets on a loan to her private jet with just kind of like personalized napkins. And I just thought, rich people are really, do not give a shit. They're really riching right in our faces. No. It's never been easier to just do shameless things. And I think they know that they can get

away with it. Like I saw that video by Carly Jenner. I didn't watch it. I saw it had like four million views. And it would, it had just been like two days that had been up. She is going to be making so much money from that video on top of her just basically like shitting out. out indications of wealth left out and center in this video. I'm so sick of it. I'm so done. And with that advert, the polymarket advert that you brought up, all of those people, whatever. But Spike Lee, Spike Lee hurt. Spike Lee is a well-respected bloody director. What is he doing in this? And I know everyone is capable to let you down. You know, it's not a case of if they're an artist, they can't also just do mad shit and do adverts like this. He's proven

that but it is just like still really disappointing to me to be honest i used to do stand-up about this but i got like addicted to mecca bingo union i actually used to get into my overdraft because i would play all of these games on like the national lottery and stuff be spending like tens of pounds at a time but when you have no money and you think you're going to win like if you've got a brain like mine i'm sure it's like partly ADHD but i'm definitely very like addiction prone and you get like a thrill it's like the people that lose from gambling are poor people because you've got everything to lose Whereas these really rich people, everyone's made this point. I've heard literally everyone say this,

but really rich people can go and play poker and they can lose like 100 grand and find it really funny because they've got 10 million in the bank. Like it's so scat, gambling is so unethical in every single sense, like no matter which capacity, whether it's in a casino, whether it's on an app, whether it's like whatever. Even the lottery is kind of like sickening when you think about the fact that we make everyone pay this money

for this dream of potentially often accessing just like a standard of living that we think should be generally good. So yeah, I think gambling is sickening and you're so right. Then watching, I did watch the whole Kylie Jenner blog. I didn't even know that she owned, because I thought that was a thing you didn't own the planes. You'd rent them. Anyway, sickening levels of wealth. And weirdly, I had started to quite like her and I do still find it quite endearing.

But the rich are, they're just getting, they just don't care. Or maybe they just don't know. I don't know. But it's everyone's pissing me off. I think they don't care. I think the era of being held accountable and that having commercial ramifications has ended. For example, she did the metaglasses. She's now considering launching a substack. She's back on YouTube soon after doing metaglasses and getting multi-million views in her

videos. There are people who will be up in arms like us talking about it. I won't watch the video. I am a tiny drop in the ocean of people who still will watch it or will be rage-baited as we've spoken about before into watching it. She might be rage-baiting. She might not even be. She might just not fucking care. Either way, she's still getting the views. And there was a Wall Street Journal article about prediction markets. I just wanted to bring up, they said seven in ten traders record losses on polymarket and a tiny percentage of accounts make 67% of profits. The whole idea of these prediction markets, the sell is that everyone is allowed to be incentivised. Everyone has access to suddenly being able to make huge amounts of money. The reality time and time again is there's a

small amount of people making money and they are not the average person. They are the people who already have access to information who can basically just trade information with each other to get the right prediction bets on these apps. It's so, so, so, so bad that celebrities are endorsing this and basically encouraging people to gamble away their money in a cost of living fucking crisis. I think it's so, so bad. I'm actually very proud of the council. It wasn't the whole episode, but we went into Calci and these bets will link that if you didn't listen to. I'm proud of the commentary we did there and what we touched on. I will say, I think Timothy Chalameh doing his Calciad was a watershed moment for other celebrities being like, yeah, I can probably go away with that. That's fine.

And probably Kylie Jenner doing the old meta as well, because her profits have not dipped, her following didn't dip. These markets and these, they should be like anathema for, they should be bad, bad news, poison for celebrities to touch. Like it's muddling into like, German, And journalism and reporting, it was only this year AP announced that they will provide their US election results to Kalshi, vote count, race calls. That will be available on the platform. Also worth noting that according to, I think it was a financial times piece, people familiar with the matter claim or confirm that Donald Trump Jr. was handed about 300 grand worth of equity in Kalshi in 2025 when he joined as a strategic advisor. These are murky times believing in. I think there's low trust in. media, low trust in one another, low trust in politics, a lot of division. And I do think I'm very unsettled by the market dominance of calcium polymarket and things like that and how they're sidestepping, betting legislation, etc. How the people sitting on their boards are very influential and connected to politics. And so celebrities popping up in ads, I just reserve the

rights to be like, you are actually just greedy and stupid. You're all greedy, you're all stupid. I'm annoyed at you. So I sent you both a piece that was published in The Times called I'm tracking my son at Freshest Week, and I'm not the only one, by Annie Hayes, who basically is using snap maps to spy on her son at university. She knows when he has slept in late. She knows where he's supposed to be. She got his timetable. She knows when he's at the club. She knows if he's running late. And she says, basically, she's not alone. She knows loads of other mothers who do this, and she's not going to stop. I, oh my God, I really want to know what you thought of her thesis, that this is just like part of the modern age, part of having children, teenage children going into the

adult world or going to university at this point. We've got this tech. Why not use it? How did she come across to you as a mother, like her thesis, but also her attitude to her grown child? It's so funny, isn't it? Because she even says she was like, we were like with Nail and I'm me and my friends that my parents had no idea what we were up to. We would call them from like the phone booth in the hallway where there was no privacy. And she was like, and I would never let anyone trap me now. God, no way. Am I allowing anyone to have me on my friends? And I was absolutely fine at uni, obviously, but my son, no. And I just thought, very interesting, because it's kind of like a weird self-awareness, but I think it is this contagion of if I can do it.

If everyone else is doing it, then I guess I should be doing it. And I just think, I mean, I don't have children, so I can't speak to the anxieties. And obviously tragedy does happen. And, you know, university people can or on gap years or whatever. I think her son goes off and travels and she's like tracking him on a motorbike and yeah I can see how that's scary but just from like the perspective of like what's supposed to happen when a child's 18 and leaves home is they are supposed to be given this freedom and I just think she is causing herself really heightened levels of anxiety and her child I think deserves the freedom I to this day I track my friends but I would never have my partner or want my partner to trap me because I think

when you're like kids is different when they're like older I don't think you should but I think there's something nice about allowing someone to be a person in and of the world, whether that includes them slightly lying about, you know, staying later in the pub than they said or going and seeing friends. I think it's such an invasion of privacy. I just think it's so strange. And it sounds like she wasn't necessarily using the information that she got from tracking him to change what he was doing, whereas there were other parents that sounded like that she spoke to who would take the information that they saw from tracking them and then try and encourage their child to do something different. But either way, I just think, just because you can doesn't mean that you should.

What about you, Ritura? I had a really strong aversion to the piece and I just really did not like it. I felt really uncomfortable. I felt uncomfortable that she included pictures of her children as well in a piece about surveilling them. I thought that was so wildly inappropriate. Like you, I'm not a parent. I speak through the guise of being somebody who had parents who were very worried about her and coming up from a very sheltered experience. of growing up. And I also come from the experience of, you know, having been in relationships where partners can be really worried about where you are going and stuff like that. So I have a very strong aversion to this level of scrutiny when you have children who are leaving the home and trying

to become people on their own two feet. I think it's really detrimental. I think it's really damaging. And I think speaking about it and talking about them as if they don't have a right to have an opinion about their own surveillance is just as damaging. She speaks about in piece, her three children really push back and her responses, well, if you want to not be surveilled by me, then we'll just turn the phone contract over and then you can just deal with it. And it's such a defensive mindset. I just, I felt, I really, it may be so angry because it put me back into the child mindset of just being treated like you're not a person. And I was thinking one of her children is 18. He is a person. So to have that level of,

no, this is how it goes down if you want to be under our household or, you know, on this contract through us as a student, which which student would not accept their parents paying their fucking phone bill, you know, you're a better person than I. I just, it really upset me. I didn't like it. I also think there is a genre of writing in the times with parental stuff specifically that is, it comes from the point of parents being scared of what their kids are up to and normalizing a level of surveillance. I saw a piece ages go about somebody doing the same for going through their children's phones. The piece was very much on the side of parents should be able to do this rather than maybe going down the trickier path of having conversations, having a more open household,

maybe, I don't know, I'm not a parent, I'm saying this again, but normalizing the behavior of fear rather than normalizing maybe a third secret option C for how to deal with the new times that we're in, I think the Times really puts out a lot of content in that vein and I don't love it. What do you think, Beth? I mean, things are safer than ever. This is what annoys me about this fearmongering. This is, things are safer for her children than they were for her when she was with nailing an eye when she was absolutely footloose and fancy free. Things are much better. You will have so many ways to be in touch with your children that, you know, you can call them. They can call you. You can check in so easy without having to put money on a phone.

All it is doing is making her more anxious. It gives the illusion of safety. She's like, I think she says something like their safety is the reason I don't feel guilty about it. And you go, but you're not making them any safer. You're making yourself more anxious. There are no examples in the piece that demonstrate anything where she was able to keep them safer, prevent something bad from happening. All it does is alert you maybe to an accident or anything like that. But then that's already happened.

And as you say, I do think sending kids out into the world and doing this means that they will not develop their own sense of safety, their own good intuition, they will basically, they won't learn to rely on themselves in scary situations, which as a parent, I'm sure that's held to think they have to go through scary situations, I want to save them. But that is what saves them in the long haul. And also, if that was me, she says it has like, it's like World War III levels of arguments when they talk about this. They are obviously so against this. If I was being surveilled at a certain point, I would start keeping more secrets. I would a thousand percent have just gone fine, I'll be smarter. Fuck you. Oh my God. Absolutely. I would leave my phone in my room. I would buy a burner

phone or like some kind of brick phone and I would take that out. Absolutely. I remember at uni once, I lost my phone for like three days. I'd like gone out and I was just still out. And I remember my parents were like messaging right on my Facebook wall. Like is anyone seen an on only and someone's like, oh, I think she's like at someone's house. I don't know. I'd literally, I think I'd left my phone on a bin outside a pub. Also, because I was thinking the practicalities of this. Like what could happen? Obviously like yes, your child could end up in a motorcycle accident when they're in Vietnam. the emergency going to be stopped by you tracking them. Probably not.

Like you need to have police there. There's going to be people like, unfortunately, I think this is something just with life. It's like we can't always protect and actually goes against human nature and human development to want to always have this over our children. Like we,

I don't know. I also don't really understand how Snap Maps work, but she was like, it'll tell me if he's under his duvet. Is that like real, like actually genuinely says that he's under his duvet. Like what? I mean, I know life 360,

not from using it. My hairdresser was telling about it the other day. Life 360 has, I think most young teens now are on Life 360, so their parents can see when they're travelling in a vehicle. They can see if the vehicle is breaking or swerving erratically or doing like too fast acceleration, speeding, things like that. Can obviously tell if you're in a crash as well. But I don't think it's got duvet mode. But do you know what?

At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if you go, put a thingy on her, like a watch and it goes, he's asleep. Like, oh my God, leave me alone. She feels like that man who tracks his kid's boner just fucking chill out. This is an adult man. So don't get me wrong. I would absolutely air tag my child till they're like five. Oh yeah.

I'd put a little air tag on them just in case they ran off in a crowd. But I think from teen, I think I want my teenagers. I always think about this. Is this from mean girls or something else? I always think it's like when I have teenagers, I'm just going to have the parties in my house. They can get drunk in my house.

So they're like they're being naughty, but they're being naughty like in your vicinity. So it's like they have this perception of freedom. But beyond that, I think you have to, the amount I spent my whole life lying to my parents. And it was only when I got older that, I realised they absolutely knew I was lying. I mean, I used to get in the car after smoking like 20 cigarettes, I mean, I hadn't smoked. And my mum would be like, mm-hmm.

Okay, I don't know. I would just like pinching her nose in the car. I remember coming back from night out, my mum was like, have you been kissing someone. I was like, no, why would you say that? Then I got in and my red lipstick was all over my face. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's really unhinged. I think these moms need to, no offense.

but I think that they need to let go. It was the double betrayal for me. It was everything you guys said and we've just said now, but it was the writing about it too. The stance of I am within my rights to talk about this, to broadcast it, what I'm doing is completely normal. I think if I was a child reading my parent talk about my surveillance in that way, that would feel like the double betrayal.

It would just be like, you're not even treating me like a person. You're treating me like an entity under your control, under this banner of I have every right. right to do this and that would piss me off just as much. It reminds me of, I don't know if we ever talked about this, but there was a piece in the Wall Street Journal over the, I've quite recent actually, called Helicopter parents are now co-piloting their adult children's careers. It was about Gen Z's just entering the workforce and their parents kind of managing their careers. Like if they got fired, they would call up and be like, so-and-so needs her job back or scheduling Zoom meetings or sitting

on on interviews. And it's things like that. And I understand. It's a tough world, it's a tough job market for kids and you kind of think, I've got expertise in this. I'm just going to help. But actually, I do think you do more harm than good because you don't allow a young person to become an adult. And you just kind of, they do, they're able to rest on their laurels a bit. They're able to just lean back and then you're there to catch them. Like there's the point of university is to kind of make those mistakes and mess manage your time and get in a bit of trouble and drink too much and kind of like let your room look like shit and then go, I don't want to live like this. My mom's not here to pick up after me. It is me who has to manage my time and my meals and whatever else.

those skills are so invaluable don't rob for a sense of full security which isn't even real why rob your child and also why like she's checking she's at work she's ruining her own date being like where is he what's he doing my blood pressure what who's that good for I would have not like my parents would have seen me at the club

at subway at subway again at the club boring I just never went home no but also you're so right but I was thinking this I was like the way that you learn is you have to make you have to do something you have to make a really bad choice so that when you wake up in the morning you think oh my fucking God, I can't do that. Like if your mum is stopping you at every turn from making the wrong decision,

at some point your mom won't be there to help you. Like I actually think the most well-rounded people are generally people who had to, you know, forge themselves through the flames of their own mistakes and change and grow. I just think these mothers are actually doing these children like a huge disservice. But I also think it's so interesting generationally. I was actually at a talk last night, which I'll tell you both about. But there's quite a big generational divide between our generation, people younger than us and people maybe in their 50s and above about tech and AI and then they've kind

of ushered it in as like a really welcome non-scary great thing whereas I think our generation is very conscious of and we've had multiple conversations around surveillance so I do think there is like a generational divide of perception around these things and I wonder if a lot of people who read this piece who maybe it was more aimed towards those mothers they're all reading it nodding and thinking yeah absolutely agree I think that there is definitely um there's a divide going on with how people feel about this. And I can very much imagine people being like, those three don't have kids, they have no idea what they're talking about. But to that, I say, well, when I do, I won't be tracking them. I agree. I will never, just from the right of everything we've said, but also you are just

reiterating your own propensity for fear of threat over and over and over again. And I think as somebody who I deal with anxiety, it's something that is like very present at times. It's something that is like quite a big thing in my life, I always have to challenge the fear. I have to challenge the threat button in my brain that says, this is bad, this is bad. The minute that I just keep reiterating it with the help of tech is the minute that my life just completely comes out of control to myself. And I think there are parallels in this situation. I don't have children, but I definitely can relate to that anxiety of if there was a button, if there was a watch that I could use to just track everything that I'm worried about, I would be so, so hardwired to not buy that instantly, but I have to,

because life is unmanageable the minute that I rely on something like that. Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about this for ages, but I could go on because I do, I mean, I think on one hand, this sort of surveillance, especially young kids are now all on life through 60. It's a kind of social media for a lot of young people now. I think it butters a generation up to be surveilled. Maybe that sounds tin-hattie, but I think it does. I think there's a reason that we as millennials are kind of a bit like, oh, I don't

love tracking. Maybe I'll adopt some of these things. But the idea of people always knowing makes me feel iffy. There's a reason why she, as I think she's like Gen X, is saying absolutely never. It's a generational thing. We're buttering up young people to feel okay with surveillance and to associate it with their safety, which it absolutely is not. I also think I'm the same with anxiety.

And every treatment of anxiety involves exactly the opposite of what she does. It involves sitting in the discomfort, like you say, not pressing the button. Maybe I told you this, but when I was dating my partner, he shared his location on WhatsApp, like temporarily because he was cycling back somewhere and we were going out for dinner. I looked at. He was on a busy road and it stopped and it stayed stopped for 15 to 20 minutes and I went, he wasn't answering the phone. I went, he's been hit by a bus. He was on his bike. He's been hit by bus. He don't even have to have him on. He eventually came home. I was in floods of tears. He was like, oh, it must have just frozen. I didn't know it could

do that. I was like, he's died. He's died. I'm going to have to have to call his mom. I'm never even met his mom. I'm going to have to call his mom. And I just thought in that moment, not worth the ag. It's not worth the ag. No. No. Phones are amazing to call people, people be in touch. But this was a period of like 20 minutes when he was just happily cycling along, singing along to his songs, and then came home at the time he was meant to be home. But I had convinced myself because of this faulty data. And in that moment, I just thought, there's nothing good lies this way for people that are wide like me. It can only ever get worse. I mean, I laugh about it now. But at the time I was just like,

well, what's the other information? This data is perfect. And it's not. It's confusing. You get, you think someone's somewhere. It breaks up relationships. You have arguments. You don't trust each other. I have to hang up. I've done the exact same thing, but even worse, it was I had gone to buy like my niece or my boyfriend's niece like a present or something. I had gone to Batta's Cowell Station and my partner is always on WhatsApp. Like literally every time he's gone, he's either online or he's like just been online.

So he hadn't been online for like 20 minutes and I was like, that's really weird. Like he's never not online. So I emailed him and he didn't reply. No, I rang him loads of times. He didn't answer. It's so unusual for him. So he emailed him, he didn't reply. And then I emailed his work email.

And I was so panicked that I was like he's obviously. he had a shower. I just, I just, like, so convinced it happened. He'd had a shower. He'd slipped and fell, cracked his head, and he was bleeding to death on the bathroom floor. Again, it'd been like 20 minutes that he'd not been on his phone.

So I threw all the stuff that I was holding, in Batten's Fowd Station, I ran out, I tried to get a bus, I was like panicking. I got in a taxi in the Uber. I was like, literally, I'm going to be sick. I was sweating. I was like, taking my scarf. I was like, open the stairs,

run up the stairs, he goes, hey. I was like, I was like, why I'm like, why I'm like, what I've been? He's like, my phone's just been on charge. It's like we're so used to having access to people that when they don't reply, like because I felt like I knew his patterns, it's like you shouldn't have that much access. And I honestly was like having a panic.

I couldn't calm down for ages. Then I was like, I need to relax. But me and my sister do this. If my mum doesn't answer her phone, we'd literally bring each other like, where's mom? And mum,

it was on the loo. Like, what's wrong with you? I think like that's, this level is enough to send me into like a spiral. I do not need to be actively tracking people at all times. I don't think. The one thing I would love to talk to you about both about, because it's actually kind of talking about mothers and their teenagers.

There is the new Sharon Hogan show, which came out on HBO Max, called Youth. I went to a screening which we were all invited to, but unfortunately, you guys couldn't make it. And there was an interview with Sharon Arta, and I am just her biggest fan girl, so I loved it. I, having watched the two episodes that are out, there is actually probably one of my favorite things about the show, which is bad to say, is that Rory is Killian Murphy.

son, the character Aaron Murphy. Oh my gosh. Yes. Can you see it? Oh my gosh. Yeah, actually a bit now you said that. And he's obviously this like brooding, moody doesn't want to talk to her. He's like causing all sorts of trouble and she can't get through to him.

She's on a very different plane from the mother that wrote the Times piece. She's very much sort of like, fuck, what do I do with this young man? But it's interesting how much and also thinking about like adolescence and all of the manifesto conversation. I feel like teenage boys are going to be front and center of a lot of our media for the next. probably next decade or so. But tell me what were your thoughts on youth. Gosh, the one thing is, I couldn't believe that she said that she was 50 in the episode. I know that's like really unwoke of me to say, but I was like, you look 35 to me. Anyway, just unreal. I know, she's just like,

she's so funny. She's so gorgeous. She's just like, she's mother. She's just mother. It's so fun having her back on screen. I really enjoy her as a person. I could watch just her doing a flea bag style one-woman show for eternity. I think she's so funny. I think she's so funny. I think, there's loads of potential in the show. I feel like I wasn't 100%, but I enjoyed it enough that I will definitely stick around. My two points were, I think, loads of the jokes about publishing, I think they didn't feel very new to me. I think Romanticie being a bit of a punchline is something that felt very familiar. And I think the Gen Z being a bit of a dope trope, I can't wait for that to just kind of move a bit forward. But all this stuff about her being a mum, the mum and son

dynamic, brilliant. Her and Pat, her ex, who is this kind of, of he seems really nice so I'm confused how he's going to be a fuck boy but this kind of ex from her past who messed her around they seem to be meeting up again but they're in not the right stages of life potentially to make something work I'm interested with the humor around sex as well so far that's been really funny so basically I'm saying I'm intrigued enough I'm going to stick around but I think the jokes around publishing didn't really land for me what did you think Beth. Interesting because I do, I mean, as we're sort of adjacent to industry and in publishing, I just enjoy a skewering of that industry, but you are almost definitely right. It's a fun idea

that she works in publishing and she has this great job, but also like a lot of it's kind of like shitty. It's one of, you can tell this is the mind that brought us in part catastrophe. Like it is really the highs and lows and like the little irritations of what is otherwise like a beautiful domestic life, but it's also just like one minute you're like a young person on the up. And then I imagine you do find yourself. Yes, having done well on paper, but life is still a bit of a slog. You're running for the bus. Your son won't talk to you. You are, you know, you want to have sex. We don't want to have sex. All of these things. And I'm just like, I like that pastiche. I'd watch Sharon Horman do anything. Like I really, I'd watch her false socks, which obviously she would

never make me do because she is a woman of immense talent. But I do think she's built up so much goodwill that I will reserve all of my opinions for the end. I really liked it. And I really like that her love interest or one of her love interest is what's his name Rupert friend from I think of him was being from Pride. And I like that this is basically about hot people, but hot people in their 40s, 50s and even 60s. There's someone who goes on a date with 67 who's played by the, again, I've got one reference. It's Notting Hill, the guy that is one of Hugh Grant's friends who's married to the, I forget his name, but he's the one that when Julie Roberts comes in and says I'm an actress, he goes, oh, it's terribly hard work, isn't it? My friends are barely scraping by.

what did you make in your last film? She goes, $15 million. And he's like, oh, all right, then. And he plays a kind of vibrant 60-something man that she goes on a date with and she has a kind of cry. And I think those things, I'm like, I'm not in that time of life, but it's such an underrepresented time of life. Like menopause, perimenopause, stuff like that. When do we, for something that half the population will go through, when the fuck do we have, we have more like superhero shows or like shows about brooding men, who's kind of going through

or just something kind of like, yeah, that sucks, but whatever. This is something that is like huge. And people say it is one of the most disruptive things ever. Sorry, I'm really worried now. It was really nasty to divorce men. I'm sorry, I do care about you. But there's so little representation of perimenopause and menopause.

And I think, even though it's not central to this, nor was it to Mandland, but it was amazing on Mandland. That we need more of. We do need more shows about 50-something women. Give me them now. I realize I'd never watch Pulling, So that is another thing actually that I've been watching is she has pulling, which is her first show that came out in 2006. And the idea is it's like a 30-year-old woman who decides that she doesn't want to marry the man that she's set to marry.

And at that point in time, that was also based on her life, like Lucy based on her life, trying to make it living in a London that wasn't that glamorous. Then you have catastrophe, which follows on, which is about like the motherhood journey, the relationship. And then you have this one that obviously not like strictly following on. But she said like in the Q&A, she's like they're all based on my life. She said that she actually started writing this show like seven years ago. she had this idea for when she herself was coming out of her relationship, trying to re-find her sex life, exactly like you said, Beth.

She was like, you just don't see women of this age on TV. But one of the things that was so funny and also so damning was someone was asking her, like, when you chronicled your life like this and you get to look back and you think about her hard things where, she's like, yeah, it's really funny. Because when I was writing pulling, you're thinking, God, this is so fucking hard because I'm living in this shitty house and like, I feel like I haven't got anywhere because she famously, I love remembering this, but she kind of made it when she was 36.

I always think about that because I'm like, I've got four. years. Then she was like, and then catastrophe, obviously you're having your kids and it's really hard. And then she's like, but the thing is she's like, this is actually, this is the worst bit. She was like, this is the hardest bit now that I'm in. And we were like, what? No, you can't. You're spent to get better. She was like, it's so hard because your kids, she's like, your kids are getting to the point where they're old and they're supposed to be independent, but then your parents are older. So you're carrying on both ends of the spectrum. So you've got like kind of aging parents. Then if you are single and you're wanting to date,

it's like you're trying to re-find yourself, but she's like you're going to all of these changes. and like she's just so interesting and it's so generous how much of her life that she shares but also she's so clever because she is the showrunner and she's the writer and she's the actor so people like asking her questions about how are you doing that she was like well it's so annoying when I'm on set talking to someone and then I noticed behind the head that's like the wrong prop but that's like meet my job is too so she's like I have to find out a way to like be all of these people I find her incredibly inspiring and I'm excited to see whether show go I also just I'm loving the outfits of loving the glam. And yeah, I think the son and her, that storyline, I thought was such

good portrayal of teenagedom. I remember being like that with my parents, like not wanting to talk to them being so cross. Yeah. And also the thing that I do really love actually is like a B story is her and her friends slash her boss. So the owner of the publishing company, their relationship is so it's just completely broken down in terms of professionalism. Like she texts her a joke about her vagina like in the first episode and her boss slash what seems to be basically her best friend is setting her up for a date or basically like a hookup with the guy that Beth just mentioned. But at the same time they're in an office and Sharon Hogan's character is trying to be very serious about this writer she wants to take on and this bestie slash boss just completely

shuts her down in a meeting with every other junior person. And it's so excruciating. and I think anyone who does anything creative who knows the perils of kind of having those weird relationships where it's like you are working for somebody or working with somebody but they're also kind of your friend and you could go on a night out with them and sometimes you do and then you also have to bring business into it. It's so it's so horrible actually in some of the worst instances but it's also so great when it goes well. I think having some representation of that I found really, really exciting. And I kind of can't wait to see what happens between those two. Also, one of the things I can't remember was responsive to, but she said that when she was making

TV, whenever she's in America, people cannot get behind women of a certain age not being good at their job. And she was like, I really wanted to write in people that are just not necessarily like smashing it. Like, why can't you be finding your job a bit shit? And like everything's like on top of you. And she's like, it's really funny in America. They're like, know that they obviously have to be really successful and like doing really well. Just because you're like at this age doesn't mean you're necessarily really accomplished or necessarily better. Like you can still be learning and changing and growing. So yeah, I'm excited to see what happens.

I just, there's something about her. She's very magnetic. I just, yeah. She is. It looked like you were sitting quite close as well and just feeling the, the Hogan vibe, the good Hogan vibes. She's so hot.

Her outfit was amazing. I didn't ask a question because I was too embarrassed. I'm very quite bad at asking questions. I do get a bit starstruck. I think she knew your heart. She knew your heart. and that's the most important thing, even if she didn't look at you.

Yeah, she definitely didn't look at me. Or know that I was there, I know who I am, but... No, her sole new year. It's okay. The vibes. I think the episodes are dropping in pairs, but currently there's two episodes out now on HBO,

which is about you can stream the episodes and then more will be dropping weekly, I imagine. Yeah, which is now TV for people in the UK that might not have the HBO app. You can get on NowTV. Thank you so much for listening this week. We have some news to share with you and it's been after a lot of chats between us and careful consideration.

And we have unfortunately had to make the difficult decision that for now we are only going to be releasing once a week, the Friday episode. You know that we love our midweek episodes and chats with you all. And honestly, it's so special to hear from every single listener that has messaged in. We do not take that lightly. It is so generous and the takes have been magnificent. and the opinions that you have shared have meant so much to us and it's been an honour to include them. Everything in conversation basically happened

because we were getting so many amazing, incredible messages after the Friday episode and we were like, this is great, we're having nice conversations, but I wish there was a way that we could have these in the episode and from that, that's how everything in conversation was born. We basically made a whole new episode so we could talk to you guys. And for two years, we have just loved having these conversations. And so it is with a heavy heart that we have basically had to face that as an independent podcast,

we just at this very moment in time, we can't sustain the twice weekly episode schedule. And we have been genuinely doing our best to push against an ever-evolving podcast landscape and trying to find out a way to keep going. And that is unfortunately particularly tricky for shows which are like ours. We're independent, we're political, we're highly researched. and we aren't willing to censor ourselves to kind of please certain production companies or certain commercial endeavors. And so we just always want to make sure that we are thinking like that and making the show that we know that you love and that we love too. And also, I guess we just also want to be showing up as our best selves for you. And right now that looks like a bit of reshuffling

and regrouping on our side. So do not fret. We have big plans for everything is content. That involves you guys and in the background we're going to be using this time to make those happen. So we just hope that you guys understand that decision and know that we are so grateful for your support and participation in these Wednesday episodes for the last two years, whether it's Lily Ellen's feetpicks or true crime or twink death. It's like we have said to you every single week since 2024, we love being in conversation with you. It's not a light decision but it has also been made in the hopes that it will allow us to keep making a show. for as long and strong as possible.

So for now, we will see you here, as always, every Friday. And please, as always, do give us a follow on the apps that we always say, but also our substack where we will be pending a piece a week. Bye!