Everything Is Content - Disastrous Dentistry, Kaotic Cancellations and Living In A Post-Lingerie World

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

This week on pod, The Three Musketeers are back together. Beth, Ruchira and Oenone soldier through the battlefield of streaming services, why is it that Netflix loves to cancel shows in their infancy? We want to fight them! Kaos might not have reached number one on Netflix's charts, but it certainly has become beloved to everyone who has plunged their eyeballs into the reimagined Greek Mythology. The action centres around various prophecies, relationships and quests as Zeus tries to prevent the fall of his powerful family. It’s inventive, it’s sexy, it’s dramatic, it’s different. And now it’s done. Next up - how far are you willing to go for a good smile? A piece in the Guardian this week dives into the world of veneers, specifically why cosmetic dentistry is such a booming industry and what happens when the pursuit for perfect teeth goes horrifically wrong. It’s clear there’s a booming popularity in getting picture-perfect teeth, but would you go for veneers? Does it appeal to you?Lastly, after a 6 year hiatus, The iconic display of Angels is back -The Victoria’s Secret’s catwalk show took place for the first time since 2018 - we ask,  Is there a place for the Victoria’s Secret Show in 2024?English Teacher On Disney PlusBrian Jordan Alvarez XKaos On Netflix Jawbreakers Young patients want beautifully imperfect veneers. They’re getting pain, debt, and regret - The CutWhen veneers go very wrong: ‘I knew I’d made the biggest mistake of my life’ - The GuardianThe Victoria's Secret 2024 Runway Show Promised Inclusivity, So Where Was It? - Teen VogueWhy The Victoria’s Secret Runway Comeback Missed The Mark - Elle Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

i'm beth i'm richara and i'm anoni and this is everything is content the podcast that dives into the week's biggest and best pop culture stories whether it's tv tiktok literature or something in the world of celebrity we're all over it with a cinnamon sprinkle on top of the pumpkin spice latte of content this week on podcast, we're talking about chaos being cancelled on Netflix, veneers going wrong, and the return of the Victoria's Secret fashion show. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at everythingiscontentpod

and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss an episode. But before we dive in, I have to hear what have you both been loving? Anoni, you go first. So I have recently just read a book called banal banal banal anal by b anal banal nightmare by hallie butler who also wrote the new me which is a book that i read i think in like 2018 2019 i really liked it this book is about a woman called moggy which is such a weird nickname but you get used used to it, who goes to a big breakup. She's in her thirties. She decides that she's going to move back to

where she was brought up in the US and she's an artist. And she moves back in with this group of friends that she went to school with and it's all quite bitchy and they're all a bit difficult and they're all living the most mundane, boring lives. They're all so self-centered. They're all really dissatisfied. And I fucking loved it, which was weird because it's so depressing, but it's one of the best. I just really, really enjoyed it. I thought it was like whip smart, such an amazing commentary on like modern life. Maybe it made me feel good because I'm not feeling like I'm in the best place. It's quite nice to read about other people who feel really kind of like shit about their own lives. And I just really like her style of writing. I think it's really nice to read about other people who feel really kind of like shit about their own lives and I just really like her style of writing I think it's really smart it kind of maybe not a

Tesla moshbag I can't I don't know who else to compare it to but what I found so interesting was I then went on the goodreads of the book thinking that everyone was going to have loved it and oh my god the reviews people hated this book which I think is a really good indicator to try to not necessarily read goodreads before you read a book because I think is a really good indicator to try to not necessarily read Goodreads before you read a book because I genuinely loved it and the whole time I was reading it I couldn't tell you how much I was like excited to read more and I really went through it and then I read The Goodreads and I was like wow some people did love it but it was really people hated it I just thought it's interesting. That really is interesting I don't know why I still

think that we all generally have the same reception to books. We've said it so many times that books are really personal, but I still, in my mind, think if I like a book, all my friends will like the book and most of the internet will like it. It is such a good salve if you're getting bad reviews to go on, or if you're disagreeing with people to go on the internet and to read Goodreads, because you will get just a book you think was crafted by the gods will have been slammed by someone going didn't get that one star or didn't like that character's name one star and i think hallie hallie butler i didn't know she had a new book out because i have loved jillian if you've not read jillian and only

you should which is her first book i think and then and then The New Me, she writes like, yeah, it's like gloom. She writes like an inner gloom and like modern day gloom in a way that I don't think anyone else does. Quite depressing and difficult to read. I always end up reading them on holiday and then regretting it, but so good and so perfect. I can't imagine picking up one of her books, reading what it was about, reading it, not liking it, and then going, but I'm going to read her newest book and then give that a bad review I don't know just something is I feel like people just don't know they know what they're in for and they just don't prepare but maybe I guess they hadn't read her other books another thing that I'm coming to think about criticism actually really is

any work that makes anyone and get because the reviews were I don't think anyone was saying it was like badly written people just like they hated how it made them feel and they hated the characters and they really and I actually think that's just as valuable a response to a piece of art as loving it in the same way it's kind of the same thing so I just think it just shows the book's quite powerful yes on that note negative did you both see Megan Nolan posting a review I think it was either by the New York Times or the New Yorker and she said it was a negative review but it essentially just went into a huge amount of depth on her style of writing. They just said that they wish that she had perhaps been more visual and more sensory in the way that

she had described certain characters and emotions and things like that. And she posted it. And it was so reassuring to read the comments because a it was I thought it was really cool that she shared that and she just was like this made me feel a type of way so I'm just going to lean into it and just share my L on the internet but then everyone in the comments was like really supportive but also just like this is pretty fucking cool that they respect your work to the level to give it that much detail and thought and they were essentially like this just reveals a level of respect to consider your work in such high detail and to almost like go into it with such nuance because they feel like they're having a conversation with an equal and I thought that was

quite yeah I thought it was quite a refreshing take especially for somebody like me who's very sensitive about stuff like that I read the same. And I think we have to be very careful as writers when we, one, read our critique and when we repost it to others. But I think in this case, it is like a very big publication, taking your work and kind of analyzing it in a way that maybe is like less than favorable. And I think it was, yes, it was very reassuring. It was kind of, I just think she's a very cool writer in that she's willing to take it on board, but also be like, this made me feel terrible. She's not positioned herself as this above-it-all literary genius, even though that is what she has been called

since she came out with her first book. Like, wunderkind, she's amazing. I think it was very relatable, but also I think I would have been shuddering too hard with tears to even post that so it's kind of like letting other people know that you know that some people don't like you I think it's really difficult as a writer this is making me think of do you guys remember when it was in the London Review of Books it was Lauren Euler Euler I don't know how to say her name did a review of Gia Tolentino's Trick Mirror, which I know we all loved and was like reviewed amazingly. And this review was one of the most crushing, heart-wrenching, biting reviews. And Gia Tolentino responded going, I respect this so much. I really like her writing. And I love that someone's engaged in my work so critically. I think it's going to really help me like become a better

writer. And I thought that is like along that vein of, is true and it is amazing bigger person than me do you know what when you said Lauren Euler criticism I was nodding thinking I was like I know exactly and it was a completely different book because she has done this because she's a critic she has eviscerated so many books I was like I know exactly what she's going to say and I think it was like a Roxane Roxane Gay's book that she also did this too I was like nodding along knowing I know where she's going and you went to a completely different book just it takes my breath away reading these pieces they're so and it's not mean it's criticism but oh my god it feels mean what have you been loving this week for Tara so mine is gonna be just a completely obvious one but I don't know if you

girls have heard that Charli XCX dropped a new album over the weekend I don't know yeah I don't know like pretty underground not very well known but yeah that's my recommendation slash love from the past week some of my faves are Sympathy is a Knife featuring Ariana Grande I yeah those two together in a song I think it would have felt like chalk and cheese before it actually came out and it would have felt really wrong but it's so good and you know what the von dutch remix everything is romantic as well with caroline polacek ah just love it and i love all the london references and the fact that she mentions foxes having sex and screeching outside outside her window because that feels like my life that feels so real and it's so good to have that on the album have you girls listened to it i haven't listened all the way through but I really want to I don't know why I haven't set

aside time I've listened to a couple of the songs and I've loved the response to it and the way that people are calling Charlie so innovative because I remember seeing a tweet which I can't recall to get it up exactly now but someone was like I love that Charlie has ascended to this point in her pop girly career where she kind of had the album of the year and then instead of capitalizing on that and becoming more commercial she's taken apart and reinvigorated this music that already exists and turned it into something really brand new and that really feels like art and I think that's really true and I think it's really clever and interesting and so I do need to sit and listen from beginning to end. I never one I don't really understand remix albums because I'm ancient does she have any songs on there that I would relate to as a 31 year old that has moved

back in my mum and dad in rural Wales? Because I would love to hear your recommendations for that one. Yeah, I don't know if there's one particular song on the album that speaks to that. But I, you know what, I think there's something for everyone there maybe you could pick something from uh everything is romantic from that I don't know but yeah don't shoot me if you're like Richira there's no reference to Wales I think it's a big ass I am excited to listen to this I just think it will instill a feeling of left-outedness yet untapped in my body what have you been loving there so I've been loving a TV series called English Teacher, which is on Disney Plus. Have you watched it, heard of it?

So this is, I think it's because I follow its creator, who is Brian Jordan Alvarez on all social media that I have been as engaged as I have in the launch of the show. So he is, for anyone who doesn't know, Brian Jordan Alvarez is an actor and a comedian who has kind of spread on the internet. He has a full career behind him, but also I think he's probably most well known for doing these characters on the internet. He does like a whole host of different guys and women,

actually. He does a whole host of genders. One of them is TJ Mac, who is a pop star. He just filters to create these people. One of them has huge eyes, no nose, and big mouth, and he sings the Sitting Song. I mean, I'm explaining this terribly. If you know, you know. I think you might know. Do you know who Brian Jordan Alvarez is? I think you showed me him. I've just remembered because I can't remember if you showed when we were together or you retweeted him but he does this voice this what's the really famous song I'm going to put on my pants no there's one where he does sitting but there is another maybe he talks about pants sitting but it's sitting is the opposite of standing. Oh my God, I can't believe I just did that. Sitting is the opposite of standing. It's the way his voice is.

No, it's the funniest thing. I think you told me about him and then I went so deep in a hole and watched all of his videos. But it's such a specific thing that you have to have watched it to really understand the genius. The more you watch the videos,

the funnier they get. So I need to watch this program because I don't think I've seen his real face. I've only seen his face with the filter on. Oh, it's incredible. Like he's got a a lovely face, but yet if you know him on the internet, you might just know him through these various characters, which have very heavily filtered filters on them. And in this show, so he is English teacher on FX in the US, but also on Disney Plus if you're in the UK, probably anywhere else. It's a comedy series

where he plays Evan Marquezquez who is a 30 something english teacher at a high school in austin texas and the series is a comedy it's about him navigating his ambitions as a teacher in the modern world with like a gen z student base being an out gay man on the faculty in i guess the deep south deep South. I think that's what Texas is. It's a Southern state, navigating his love life, difficult students, difficult parents of students, his friendships with the faculty. And it is just so funny and so fresh. It is the chemistry that he has with his cast members. And he uses other internet stars as both the students and the faculty and also like incredible actors I just can't I really have I watched I've watched seven

episodes there are eight episodes and they're all out now it's perfect for a binge actually I would say if you've got plans this weekend you don't really want to go to them if you've got like a christening or just something not important then please do stay home and watch this instead it's so funny and there's only eight episodes and i'm actually a little bit nervous in lieu of what we're going to be talking about very shortly cancel tv shows that this will get cancelled so i would like anoni richira you to back me up and go and watch the show at once. So last week, Netflix announced that its hit romantic comedy, Nobody Wants This, starring Kristen Bell and Adam Brody,

would be back for a second series. We talked about the show on the podcast and we're really enjoying it. So that was one great piece of TV news. Sadly though, another Netflix show did not get the same happy outcome with chaos spelt k-a-o-s a star-studded modern satirical spin on greek mythology being confirmed as cancelled by the streaming giant despite really positive reviews and a quite small ish but very growing army of dvds to its first series so the show starred je Jeff Goldblum as Zeus, a wooga wooga. He plays Zeus, king of the gods. Janet McTeer plays his wife Hera. David Thouless is Hades, king of the underworld, and Zeus's brother. Billy Piper is Cassandra, who is a prophetess,

cursed to always tell the truth but never be believed, Aurora Perrineau as Eurydice, Cillian Scott as her husband Orpheus, Susie Izzard as one of the fates. I mean, it's such a huge and star-studded cast. It's got so many absolute belters and a lot of top British talent, I would say, with the action centering around various prophecies, relationships between gods and humans as Zeus tries to prevent the fall of his powerful family. It's inventive, it's sexy, it's dramatic, it's so different, and now it's cancelled. I am absolutely gutted about this personally. I binge-watched this all last week. I think it's a show that has legs, it has impact, and it has provoked really interesting conversations from its, you know, various action and discourse. So before we talk about the sad news of its cancellation, I just want to spotlight it. I want to talk about the show as though we don't know it has been

axed. Did you both watch it? Did you like it? Did you not like it? What were your thoughts? So I watched it when I went home last week to my parents for my week of respite. For some reason, I've been putting off watching it. I kept seeing it and not watching it. And then I thought, actually, this will be great. I'm lying on the sofa. I really just want something to binge. And I couldn't believe how enthralled and enamored and how much I enjoyed it. I thought it was giving Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet, the cast was all star. I loved the gender bending fluidity. I loved how many of the Greek mythologies

they managed to put within the show in a way that felt really modern and fun, but also true. And I wasn't expecting it to be so thick with plot. There was so much going on. There was so many threads that could have been picked up. And as like a debut series coming out, it felt like that show could have gone on for seven seasons.

I absolutely loved it. I also really fancy Killian Scott, but he doesn't have any social media and I couldn't work out if he had a wife. Who is he in it again? Remind me. Orpheus. Oh, yes.

And what has he been in apart from this because i just couldn't place it at all no i don't think i've seen him before as i said it at the top as that's like oh yeah killian scott you'll know him but i just think i'm in love with him so i've only seen one episode because i knew you guys had basically got rave reviews for it i had the same thing where for no explainable reason I was putting off watching it and I think the only suggestion I can say to why that was is just we're in an avalanche of tv shows all coming out at the same time right now and it makes sense because you know it's like cuffing season and just like no one wants to leave the house because it's horrible outside but

it's just it's so much tv like I'm watching the penguin I'm watching I mean I'm obviously watching lost but there's like so many things on my list that this one I don't know why I just like fell to the bottom but I watched one episode today and 100% I'm gonna work work my way through it it was so fun it was so camp as well and I think the Romeo and Juliet reference he made the Baz Luhrmann one is a perfect perfect analogy I've got two things to say and I'm going to say them one Richard you know the lost connection between this show and lost sorry between no lost so Aurora Perrineau who plays Eurydice is the daughter of Harold Perrineau who plays Michael Michael in Lost. Ah! Oh my God! Isn't that gorgeous? So that's point one.

Point two is the Baz Luhrmann. So actually, Baz Luhrmann's Moulin Rouge was actually, draws inspiration from the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice. So I just feel like we're hitting all the points today. It's woven in. It's so culturally relevant that we just don't even know it also the other

thing i would say is michael on lost is also mercutio in romeo and juliet so oh my god the triangle the triangle guys oh my god i've got chills i'm ruining i'm about to ruin this because i'm just taking completely side note but did you know that hugh Grant initially was going to be Zeus? That is so wrong. Because it's quite funny that Jeff Goldblum's just randomly American. I love how there's not really any sense to like, because everyone else in it is British, aren't they? Yeah, really.

Overwhelmingly. But he's really charming as Zeus. Obviously, Hugh Grant is as well. He would have had a really different character. Zeus, like, I can is as well. He would have had a really different character. Zeus, I can't see it, actually. Aurora Perrineau, who plays Eridices, she wrote a really long statement being like, I was so grateful to have gotten this role. I was so pleased to have worked in it. And it was really heartfelt. And it was really sad that it had been cancelled. And that was how I realised. And I was reading all the outpouring of love and people saying they loved her. And

I don't know, that really touched me because it shows how much people loved working on the show as well and I do think it is quite unique now we all said I love nobody wants this like we absolutely loved it but when I compare that to this I do think it feels quite saccharine and basic compared to a show like Chaos, which had the ability to go so far. And also I can imagine bring in, in following seasons, like lots of young new actors playing lots of different roles, have the ability to adapt and change and grow and become something quite interesting and dynamic. Whereas with Nobody Wants This, as heartwarming as it was, and as great as it was to see amazing representations of relationships if I had to

choose and I hope this doesn't sound bad I'd rather not have a second season of Nobody Wants Us and have a second season of Chaos. I just saw Lucy Mangan for the Guardian gave Chaos five stars and said it was hilarious profound moving and essentially said that like it it redefined and challenged and explored what it is to be human so when you take that out of context like what is wrong with a show like that that like why wouldn't you commission that for a second series that sounds incredible like absolutely incredible and what is so frustrating is something like nobody wants this had a perfectly adequate ending as in there was closure at the end not to say it's not right for renewal and it had to be one one or the other but this is a show chaos that ended on a complete cliffhanger which just

leaves the audience who were who are really devoted who were really invested by that point and are now really really up in arms about this at a point of what's the opposite of closure at a point of like it's just really jarring you're like well I don't know what happens I was relying on you the Netflix to allow this story to be told whereas Nobody Wants This had been told it's everything after this is bonus which I think is quite frustrating because I want more and I'm like a cliffhanger give me more with Nobody Wants This it was on like the number one most watched on the app for weeks. I didn't see Chaos make the charts in the same way via Netflix's own metrics and its own app system. So I wonder if it's fair to say that maybe Chaos had a bit more of a cult following,

whereas commercially, Nobody Wants This is way more successful. And I think even from my own response of just putting off watching Chaos, it is just like really lazy viewing from myself and just knowing that, you know, nobody wants this as an easy watch. It's not going to challenge me. It's just like pumpkin spice TV double screen viewing. Whereas I kind of knew something like Chaos, it probably will take a bit more brain space so I just put it off and I wonder if that you know is kind of bleeding into the kind of responses these shows get and then in turn the kind of financial backing they get from something like Netflix which is I don't know that is really sad so that's kind of what I've been reading on the timeline is people saying that it is basically because it did not hit number one straight away and as you said I think something with Adam Brody is going to be such a big sell. Kirsten Bell, it's, I think that obviously Chaos had this all-star cast, but I couldn't necessarily, I think the difficulty is you don't necessarily know what you're getting

in for. Nobody wants this. I knew exactly what I was about to watch. Chaos, I was like, I love Greek mythology. I love all of these actors but but i often think sometimes these shows that have this cast with like tons of big names sometimes i don't think it was good and so maybe that was part of my reticence so watching it i couldn't believe how amazing it was to see all of these actors together and all of them be so well placed and so interestingly done and also it's a shame that netflix is encouraging people to yeah finishing straight away if they're not popular immediately it just doesn't make any sense obviously there is the possibility hopefully that this show will get could get picked up by another streaming

platform but for instance i haven't watched slow horses which to my dismay literally every single day in my life someone tells me i need to watch it and that's on apple tv and that is going through season after season after season and so many people were saying they really believe that had Slow Horses been on Netflix, it probably would have done one season and died. And it's just so interesting that Netflix is still the go-to source for everyone streaming. It's still the automatic thing that I click on when I want to watch something. Actually, it doesn't have the best shows. It doesn't have the best originals. And this really was or

could have been one of those things that stands out it does feel like Netflix kind of goes for the highest hitters and the quickest buck rather than really thinking about what's going to satiate their audiences long term I do agree that Netflix has been the source of my greatest disappointment and I think because it was the first to do it, because it transitioned from literal DVD, and I wonder if you both were quite old enough, like, did you ever get the DVD in the mail? Yeah, you both did. So millennials will remember when it was, you got a film in the mail, or you got three every however many weeks, and then became the first streaming service of its type. And I think its business model obviously does discourage lower performing or slower building shows from staying on the roster because you're exactly right I think it was

you said this that the viewership was just not high enough so something like I think it was baby reindeer so I mean we can imagine like lower budget huge, got like approaching a billion hours of streaming. And in its first week, Chaos got, I think it was 800-ish million minutes. So an astronomical figure, but a lot lower and a lot lower to Ignite. And then its second week got a lot less. So something that sounds like an incredible pickup actually compared to its big numbers and in Netflix's own business model just doesn't make sense. And it's really frustrating because the best shows are shows maybe that people need to be convinced to watch because

Greek mythology, I love it. I think both said that you love it. I studied it at school. I'm fascinated by it. That was my draw. But you don't have to know anything about Greek mythology to like this. One, you'll learn something. Two, the drama is just so intense. And it's all set in the modern day. So it's just so relatable anyway. You can just go, oh, that person's a god. That person has powers. That person's a human. That person's dead. Easy. But because it's based on an existing mythology structure i think people will will take a little bit longer it will rely on their nan having watched it and gone no do you know what i really like that i really like that for them to

pick it up it's outstanding i think that this show came out in august it's beginning beginning of october and it's already been cancelled because however many millions of streaming minutes is just not enough I'm I do wonder that you know these queer shows these interesting shows and I love Love is Blind but it does just mean that they go no we're not investing in this let's pour the money into something we know which is Love is Blind we'll make a million series of that also I can't imagine that chaos was necessarily cheap to film that was also what was quite gorgeous about watching it is reality tv as like enjoyable as it can be and i know that you guys are maybe slightly bigger i don't always watch that much

but chaos in terms of just a feast for your eyes and it made me want to go back and reread loads of greek mythology the whole time i was like googling and remembering the thing that's so fascinating about greek mythology is no matter how many times they're retold, no matter which way it's packaged, it's always relatable to today. It's like these kind of stories and the fables and the things that they represent are always representative. And the fact that there are so many threads with all of these characters, and I was shocked by some of the twists and turns that the narrative takes, which I think more often now we're such natives in storytelling and we watch so many stories that it's actually quite difficult

to be surprised about where something's going to go. And there just seems like there's so many ways that this story could carry on. But like you say, it's just the things that are guaranteed to get so much viewership are the things. And I just feel basically bad for everyone involved, the writers, the directors, the actors, because I bet that they had a view and a really creative imagination for how this story could

carry on it must just be gutting so I think one good example from this year just as a comparison is industry because industry is in its third season and critically everyone is saying that the third season is the best season that it's had essentially since it started and because of a lack of you know that succession slot and that kind of serious witties I guess kind of irreverent business-like show HBO has given a massive push to industry and given it a better evening slot and also just like giving it more money so budget-wise storyline-wise it's just like had the room to excel and it's just like having a massive successful moment and I think it is really just a shame that a show like that for example has the ability

the kind of push behind it to grow and get bigger and find its feet whereas not every show is given that luxury and even if it has a really you know incredible response and it's a cult response it's not given the time to build more audience following and have that same I guess time to grow a fan base it's just I don't know yeah it's just really shit and we've said it before but not everyone's debut book is going to be their best book so it's kind of strange with tv shows it is really just you have to nail you know your pilot and your first series to get the chance to get bigger and bigger and you have to continue that it can't just be you know you can have a really successful one and then you can grow into something magnificent does anyone want to pour any anything out for shows lost because I know

that I have been personally affected by the cancellation of glow on Netflix mind hunter on Netflix pushing daisies okay this was about 20 years ago but it still affects me today any shows that we want to call out to the universe and say we miss you I have such a niche one and tell me if you guys ever watched this Kyle XY do you know that oh it's a show from like I don't know what that is I'm afraid never heard of her sorry it was like a sci-fi show where basically this boy wakes up and he has no belly button and he's not sure if he's like a test tube baby or an alien or what it is and it's really unclear and it just was so interesting they had two series and it had a massive cliffhanger but yeah cancelled the only one i could think of right now is

motherland which i've watched from beginning to end so many times amanda land and i've amanda land i haven't watched should i? It's not out yet. I think it's being filmed right now in London based on Amanda. Oh, fantastic. Oh, but I just love that show. I know. But there will have been some.

I've just forgotten now. So we want to hear from you if you have also been affected by this brutal cancellation. Did you love chaos? Hate chaos? Maybe want to watch chaos, but now can't be bothered

since finding out that the now can't be bothered since finding out that the series won't be getting a second one please let us know your take on the show and on netflix's whole business model of cancel first ask questions later rdms are open at everything is content pod on instagram a piece out in the guardian this week dives into the world of veneers specifically why the cosmetic dentistry industry is so booming right now and what happens when you go for veneers and it just goes horrifically wrong in his piece when veneers go very wrong i knew i'd made the biggest mistake of my life journalist simon usborne says that veneers are now as common as Botox and lip filler. He speaks to a woman named Catherine who went to a clinic on Harley Street after seeing a

voucher for the procedure. She essentially gets her teeth drilled down way too far and the dentist uses the wrong kind of glue so the veneers fall out. She describes being hysterical and in so much pain and the dentist that she went to ignores her demands for a refund. She has to approach another dentist to rectify the problem, it's not cheap and he essentially takes pity on her and reduces the price and she goes to a lawyer to help her get a refund but that takes a year. For anyone who doesn't know the majority of veneers are installed basically when a person's natural teeth have been sanded down then they're applied to the teeth with a special kind of adhesive. A solicitor in this article says that his firm receives about five inquiries a week

about badly fitted porcelain veneers which is 30% more than the year before. I don't know if you guys saw this but the cut did a similar piece just a month ago and it was called young patients want beautifully imperfect veneers they're getting pain debt and regret. I think it's clear even visually from social media that you know veneers have become more popular is that something that you guys have noticed and also importantly I really want to know would you go get veneers after reading this one of the things I think I've always found so interesting about teeth is how they've so often acted as a class signifier and especially since the advent of sort of having more cosmetics dentistry happened and this is kind of touched on in those

pieces but initially it was celebrities getting these bright white veneers and then it became that was sort of seen as slightly like less highbrow way of having your teeth done and it became this kind of really weird sort of class signifier and I think like teeth in general the trends that's really interesting I will never get veneers only because my mum knocked her teeth out when she was little and they're not veneers they're like what the crowns or something they would do years ago but it's a similar thing where they drill your whole teeth down and she like put the fear of god into me because she was saying how they can fall off and then about 10 years ago Katie Price had a documentary maybe longer it

was when she was Peter Andre and she's in a taxi and her veneers just fall off and she's just got these two little pegs like sticking out of her mouth and I remember it just horrified me so I did know prior to this article but this article also was very enlightening and I've always been quite scared of them because just the idea of drilling down your teeth but not for me but no no judgment on anyone who does i i agree that they are this status symbol now and it's almost like communicating but i think it communicates via the having of like visibly not teeth teeth in your mouth i've got money so it's it's like to me it's not the look in a lot of areas and obviously beauty is uh regional it's very diverse a lot of people go that is the height of beauty to have very visibly not teeth teeth a substance that's not teeth as your teeth is beauty

to me that's not it's not not beauty but for my own beauty it's not beauty if that makes sense I could never get them because just the idea of having all of that in my mouth whatever I don't like it I would be very uncomfortable i can't even wear it you know getting a mouth guard for hockey year seven made me want to die and be killed but i'm trying to kind of understand it but it is the process by which a lot of people get their dental work done which is and i'm just knowing this via researching for this segment i was like do you know what's the difference between veneers and composite bonding in this? And a lot of what people get is essentially crowns.

So they do get the Katie Price treatment of furrowing their teeth down to little white popcorn kernels to put on top of it, what is essentially a crown. So killing what is there. And as we know of teeth, those things don't grow back to achieve a look, which is pretty, you can't go back on it, but you will have to replace it with money down the line, but you kind of can't control or Zed that that's forever. Something that might be a temporary fad. It does fill my head with a kind of noise that other body trends maybe don't. So I get a bit itchy after a haircut and I know that will grow back. So the idea of just like the teeth, I can't, I think it takes a level of bravery. I don't have. Yeah. I completely agree with you. The idea of shaving your teeth down really does

freak me out because it's, you just can never go back and one thing I didn't know which I only learned recently is if you have really good veneers done and you care for them they can last up to 15 years but you have to get them serviced and you have to get them redone looked after for life so it's not just one procedure you're locking yourself in for you know thousands of pounds every 10 to 15 years and like you said your teeth will never grow back and I remember listening to an episode of pressed the podcast which talk about things getting cancelled I have no idea what happened to that great podcast but one of the co-hosts Mariam said that she got veneers she just saw so many influencers getting them online and she thought it wasn't a big deal she didn't realize that your teeth are shaved down so once she'd

signed up for it basically she just was like oh fuck and I didn't realize that I would have to keep going every 10 years so I think that really spoke to me about I think how normalized a procedure this serious is because of the fact that so many people get it and it doesn't feel like a big deal it does feel like getting you know tweakments on your face but it is just it's a commitment for life do you want to say full disclosure i had i didn't have braces when i was little and i had invisalign about five years ago so i have had cosmetic things done to my teeth and i have whitened them and i also knocked out the bottom part of my two front teeth when I was like 14, my cousin swung a swing into my face and they built up my bottom of my tooth with what now we would call composite bonding, but I didn't know about then. But if

you take it out, I am like missing some tooth. So I have had things done to my teeth. Teeth is such a weird cosmetic treatment because we don't seem to view it in the same way that we do other things like Botox or filler. It's almost like it's not taboo to say you're going to get your teeth done. It doesn't have the same, we don't weigh it as, as vain for some strange reason. I don't know if that's because of orthodontic being, orthodontistry being something that you might get as a teenager, for instance, like if you have wonky teeth as a child, it's very normal for your parents to go and take you to get braces and get it fixed even though it's not actually causing any issues beyond cosmetics so teeth are always something that we're willing to fix and yeah I just find that

distinction quite interesting because it fundamentally always is cosmetic I think it's very obviously cosmetic when it's something like veneers but most people have had some sort of cosmetic dentistry and we don't view it as we would if you went and say had like lip filler or some kind of botox treatment yeah I completely agree like I had a retainer and I had braces when I was younger and full transparency you know when we've been doing video content for the podcast when I look at my teeth I always think to myself as soon as I can I'm 100% going to get Invisalign again because there are bits of my like bottom set my front my front teeth that really wind me up so I definitely think the idea that you know some

experts in the piece are saying we're confronted with our faces all the time which is triggering this boom in cosmetic dentistry and especially veneers i think for me i can totally see that because my teeth have never bugged me like before from having to look at it all the time do you know what though i agree with everything you said i would in a heartbeat the only thing actually that is stopping me from getting a cheeky little year's worth of invisalign is the cost. Aligners are expensive. A lot of people say, even if you go with the kind of non, so Invisalign I'm gathering is the aligners, but it's just like top quality and everything else is just, I don't know if that's true,

but there are different values of costs. And it is the cost for me that's keeping me from doing it. But in terms of cosmetic dentistry, it is, in what other part of the body do you have to then remove something? Apart from wanting to remove it, like liposuction or fat transfers, what do you remove permanently in pursuit of a fuller goal? I think it is really extreme in that sense, but we'll also be very honest. I would do that. I would do the non-invasive, very long, boring procedure of having aligners on my teeth. And apparently, Anoni, you'll be able to confirm this, painful, boring, irritating, you can't eat properly, or like you have to think about things, but it's not, if you wanted wonky

teeth again, they'd give you the reverse aligners. It's not like shaving down your little stubby nubs. Do you know what's so funny? Full disclosure. So I only got it done because I got it gifted. I had a dentist practice reach out to me going, we love to offer you it was a line I was so offended because I thought I had really nice teeth I all my life I'd never had braces I was the only one of my sisters had no braces and I'd gone through my life thinking I had really nice teeth anyway I went to this consultation and they did this thing called an itero scan where they scan your teeth and then they show you it as like a 3 where they scan your teeth and then they show you it as like a 3D thing on the screen. And then they show you how they can move them. And this is when I found out that actually my teeth weren't as good as I'd been led to believe for the last

23 years. And so that was quite confronting because actually I'd been quite comfortable with my teeth. That being said, then my teeth were amazing. I'm not as good at wearing my retainer. They have moved a tiny bit, but I am actually, and they talk about this in the piece, I am kind of a fan of, sometimes I see pictures like straight after, my teeth are still very straight, but sometimes I see pictures straight after I had them off

when they were so straight and they whiten them after and they were so white. And I don't actually like how that looks. I kind of prefer the slight movement they've got. They've gone slightly a bit like less bright white. And when I look at people's teeth, and again, they talk about this in the piece when I see actors and actually I was watching we're going to talk about the Victoria's Secret show later but Gigi Hadid when she was talking her bottom teeth are actually quite crooked and they kind of cross over each

other and I find that really attractive and I don't know if it's the thing I spoke about before with Botox which is once you've seen faces that can't move, once you've seen teeth that's so perfect, then when you start to see sort of like natural formations of the way that skin, body and teeth move, I start to go the other way and think, actually, I think that looks more attractive. I don't know if you guys agree with that. Yeah, hell yeah. I have the exact same thing. Like Margaret Qualley in The Substance, kept just like thinking wow your teeth are so sexy like that little gap is so hot and even Ayo Edebiri like I just think all of these women whenever I see their teeth I'm just like it's so hot to me and that is kind of startling in and of

itself because it's like when have when have when have I started fetishizing a normal fucking teeth that's insane it is mad though because even as you were saying that, I was like, Zendaya, Jacob Elordi, like Barry Keoghan. And I think the only time, I might have mentioned this before, the only time I've gone viral on Twitter, formerly known as X, or the other way around, without getting backlash, is when I was talking about how I don't like veneers and I actually miss so I wrote sorry if this is rude to say but I miss when famous people had

normal human teeth I can watch whole films without seeing a single naturally occurring set of chompers and it's unnerving and it got 104 000 favorites and overwhelmingly people were agreeing with me which i think speaks to public opinion on these bright white brilliant milky bar smiles that actually it doesn't i think it's pure not vanity because they're under incredible pressure to conform to a beauty standard but i think it speaks to that pressure and it speaks to it not always creating diamonds but also sometimes duds I think people are in general not a fan of seeing these brilliant white turkey teeth personally while you're talking what the teeth I was thinking of that came up in my mind were Kate Moss and Vanessa Paradis who are both like famously gorgeous women who both have quite

angular like Vanessa Paradis has like a gap between her teeth. Kate Moss has sort of little like spiky and there's something really beautiful about these elfin tiny women who are so gorgeous, whose teeth have so much character. And I find that really fascinating. What's really depressing I thought in these articles is, and we've seen it with whether it's BBLs or whether it's people going to get treatments in foreign countries where maybe it feels cheaper, is the people that can, really the only people that can ever do well when they're trying to access cosmetic treatments are the people that have not only the money, but the knowledge of like the best doctors, because so many people fall foul of trying to follow these trends, which eventually get reversed. There are all of those people now with veneers who perhaps also have moved on with the

times in terms of thinking what's stylish and what's fashionable, and they can't undo them. I was thinking about the buckle fat removal trend, which I actually really got sucked in by and kind of really wanted that. That's gone. No one is talking about buckle fat anymore. But that buckle fat is gone also forever yeah exactly so people did that and it was so expensive you're literally cutting out half your cheek it's just with all of these trends i think you have to be so careful but i understand why people want it it's so difficult do you know one thing that i think about is that and this is quite recently as of this year there was quite a big story in America.

It wasn't like big that it was hugely widespread, but the fact that it was happening at all was horrifying. And I read this in Forbes was about veneer techs who were totally not dentists. These were normal civilians who had taken a two or three day course to give people veneers. And it's shocking. And it is,

it is rogue dentistry basically people using the same acrylics solution that you'd use for acrylic nails people buying veneer kits off team you and doing veneers which i think we can all agree is a quite a complex medical dental procedure should be done by a trade dentist, just off their own back. And it is, we'll link it in the show notes, but it was the most fascinating, horrifying piece about essentially a beauty trend, which is bright white, straight, perfect teeth being performed by your average Joe on the street for maybe a couple of thousand doll hairs, no proper equipment, no proper sterilization just so people could achieve this bright white look and it is horrifying i mean for every trend

there's always like a reactionary black market that just like pops up kindly to support you know people with confidence issues who will just try by any means they can to access that procedure. It's so dark. That is so scary. So in the piece, basically, the lawyer that I mentioned previously made sure to reiterate, be really careful and even potentially just do not go get these procedures done in different countries because it is extremely difficult to have you know legal protection if you have gone to Turkey and you know you go to a problematic questionable service over there the amount of jurisdiction that they have is just not the same whereas in the UK you know Catherine was able to get the help it took a year but she was able to get help and

that's only because it was in the UK so we would love to know especially after hearing our discussion on it are you team perfect straight hollywood white teeth or are you au naturel what is your opinion let us know in the dms after a six-year hiatus the iconic display of angels is back. The Victoria's Secret catwalk show took place for the first time since 2018, when, after low ratings, controversy and mounting criticism of the brand's lack of diversity, sexism and outdatedness, the brand decided to pull the plug on their show. However, on Tuesday night, icons like Kate Moss and Cher shared the stage with young protégés like Kate's daughter Leela and rising star Tyler. Veteran angels such as

Candice Swanepoel, Adriana Lima and the Hadid sisters were joined by the likes of America's Next Top Model's Tyra Banks, notably two trans models Alex Consani and Valentina Sampal, as well as plus-size models, including Ashley Graham and Paloma Assessa, who took to the famous runway despite the fact that the former chief of marketing officer, Ed Razek, told Vogue magazine that the brand had no interest in casting plus or transgender models in their fashion show. He's quoted to have said, shouldn't you have transsexuals in the show no no i don't think we should obviously transsexuals is not the phrase that we should use for transgender but that was

the terminology he used the show was aired on prime video with victoria's secret partnering with amazon to make the look shoppable in real time and the brand released a statement saying we've read the comments and heard you the victoria's secret fashion show is back and will reflect who we are today plus everything you know and love the glamour runway wings musical entertainment and more in a piece by anaya ashmail for teen vogue she wrote tonight's show felt like a lot of lip service and little action sometimes great things die and maybe we should leave them in the past and l magazine said the comeback missed the mark. What do you guys think? Is there a place for Victoria's Secret show in 2024?

So I feel as if it makes complete cultural sense that it's come back this year. You know, we've seen the return to small bodies. We've seen stylistically noughties fashion just like hurtled back into modern day iterations of fashion and so it makes sense to me especially drawing on the nostalgia it feels like the perfect time for it to come back but I do agree it just it just felt a bit like meh to me and I think it's because there wasn't anything new it didn't feel particularly groundbreaking also the outfits were kind of boring I think the main thing was there wasn't a look that I was like that is just you know virality in a singular outfit there was nothing there was nothing that kind of blew me away so I think it's more just the execution for me fell flat which isn't an issue with it coming back it's more just I think they should have gone harder

so for me having a very shallow understanding of I'm going to call it the VS fashion show because I just can't say VTR it gives me a lisp every time the VS fashion show I've never watched one I have a vague understanding obviously I've been alive for the last 31 years so I know it's existed parallel to me for essentially a third last 31 years so I know it's existed parallel to me for essentially a third of that time so I know about it but for me one it seemed to be and not a reinvention of that but just a kind of like quite sad continuation of that maybe not sad but at least a little bit like of a flop it didn't elevate despite maybe taking a few oh we have we've got trans models but also

who are at the top of their career so again supermodels at the top of their career that's what they've always done and then they had some older women and some plus size models so for me it just felt very much a continuation of what I'd stopped in 2019 when I guess they fell off and also Savage by Fenty. So Rihanna's brand kind of slipped in and took. So it kind of just feels like them saying, okay, well, she's not doing that because she's had children. We're just going to step back in and fill the space, but not filling it with anything new. So I approached this with maybe a bit of a superior attitude as someone who has never watched this and doesn't have a strong knowledge of it and maybe people will be annoyed that I've got a strong opinion but to me it felt very like oh this again same same I agree I even think the layout of the catwalk

like it's very black and pink it's that like candy stripe pajama dressing on things they always wear I think the brand if anything should have gone for a whole rebrand like completely revitalize it when we look at like competitors like Skims I mean I'm kind of loathe to always promote Kim Kardashian because I do just, I don't know how I feel about her, but Skims is innovative. It's interesting that people that she uses, the campaigns are fascinating. I would love to see a catwalk by Skims. I think she would absolutely nail that. I think it would be an immersive experience. I think there's so many things they could have done to make it feel more fresh and maybe make people kind of forget. But what was weird is the backdrop was kind of the same. They had the same angels. I find even that style of underwear,

even though they didn't have any male performers, that was like a massive thing in the old ones. You'd have like Usher or Justin Timberlake kind of ogling the models as they came down. And they had an all-female cast of singers that were performing whilst the models were walking. But the underwear even just feels outdated to me. Like, I almost feel like this might be a bold statement, but are we post-lingerie in that way? I don't really know who's wearing like proper padded bras. And I feel like we've got to the point where we're like, actually, I don't want like this really cheap lacy material up my ass with like really tight things at the side of my body and underwire with padding I want to wear boy boxer shorts with the best top that maybe has like a little bit of support underneath

so there's just something there where it still feels like they've done all these superficial things like you said like adding in these pops of diversity which actually in 2024 are not remotely interestingly diverse in terms of what we're seeing across the board from other brands I just don't really know anyone who's buying lingerie but maybe that's just because I'm maybe I'm dead don't say it don't say it don't say it because I'm the same and I actually really do want to talk my main thing coming into this was like, I've just got to ask them. I've got to ask everyone, is our relationship to lingerie fundamentally changed? Because I do remember being a teenager and actually an early twenties woman. It was so fundamental to me stepping into a sexual persona. It was like my Superman costume. It allowed me to get there. It performed a function, probably a problematic function that I thought my body, it can't be sexual on its own. I have

to dress it up. I have to do this. Now my sexuality, touch wood, it's not going to go away at 31, is more inherent. I understand it as not performance. I don't actually have to shave. I don't have to lose weight. I don't have to dress it up for me to be like inherently sexual just as a man doesn't i've kind of done away with lingerie but i also thought this might be a broader cultural shift that isn't just age that is also we're in an age of lingerie is outerwear no one is like we wear our on we wear our negligee to the club. We wear them down the high street. At leisure is for non-exercise. All of our fashion is so blended.

Basically, as a non-fashion girly, I would like to ask both of you, is lingerie too enmeshed in our daily wear, too enmeshed in fashion circles, non-sexual circles, that actually it doesn't mean what it meant in the 1990s when this show first came about. I think my feeling on it is, I'm not sure if I think it's because it's enmeshed in daily wear, because I feel like there's always been, you know, like the 90s slip dress and the kind of peekaboo bra. I think that's always been around. But I think our relationship and our approach to sexuality has changed and I think you're right I think there was almost like this shame when I grew up of if you you know are going to have an experience with it was always with men

it's always like well you have to make sure you're wearing nice underwear you know you have to be wearing lingerie because that's that onus is on you. But I definitely think that performance, we don't really talk about sex in the same way. And I hope the conversation, I feel like the conversation has moved beyond this idea that we are having to do this big dance and song to have an experience that is essentially about our own sexuality and our own pleasure. We don't have to dress ourselves up, as you say. Thanks to sex positivity, I think in the past few years, I think that has kind of pushed this a bit further and we don't have those same expectations. And also the idea that, you know, these angels are walking down the catwalk. I remember being young and looking up to them and thinking that was just like the beacon of beauty and sexuality. These coiffed women with

rollers in their hair, but that was never shown. You know, their hair was perfectly undone. It was like bed hair with these illustrious curls and this smudgy makeup and perfect bodies. Whereas I think also now the curtain's been lifted on it we know the diets the extreme kind of background to all of these women making on the catwalk and looking like that so I think that goes hand in hand with this idea of we're all supposed to be having perfect bodies with this lingerie to have a good time because it's it's not even a good time for the models necessarily who are trying to present that image back to us i also think like just it's such a good point and also thinking just about the name victoria's secret the idea when i was a teenager we used to go to lazenza at the local

outlet village which was near to our school and we spent all day long trying on the bras and they would be discounted loads like five pounds i remember had a come at the frog one they were really padded it was like a 32 triple a and we spent extra padding in them and we would hoik them up to the tightest amount and literally like probably giving ourselves like some sort of injury trying to get our boobs under our chin and also I used to watch Desperate Housewives and Eva Longoria's character Gabby Solis always underneath her clothes would have the most amazing matching underwear sets and I remember at school being like I cannot wait till I'm a grownup woman. And I'm going to this job where I'm wearing like stiletto Louboutins with a shift dress and underneath the dress all day long, I will be

wearing suspenders with like hold up tights and lingerie. And I was like, that is what's going to happen. I just think we've come so far away. I really don't know who's buying it. Maybe it's just teenage girls. I'm completely in the same boat of confusion because the brand itself has gone through such an identity shift. It was founded in the 1980s by a man who went to a department store to buy underwear for his wife. He was like, oh, this is an uncomfortable performance and experience for me, a man. I want to create a shopping experience

that's comfortable for men to buy underwear for their wives. And that was quite profitable for about 10 years. It made sense to build a whole empire. I think it was making like $4 million in turnover. And then it was bought by Les Wexner who if you guys haven't watched there is a very interesting and very damning documentary about him that was i think it was hulu or disney plus or prime anyway it was about his ties to jeffrey epstein and the problematic nature of that relationship anyway that's out there you can go and watch that watch that but essentially the shift in the branding went from, let's not make this an experience for men. Let's make this an experience for women. Let's put their needs first. And I

think it really did go towards those teenage impulses of, how do I look sexy for a man? What do I wear? And what does it look like that I will put this on and I will become this angel, that I will emulate a supermodel, that I will be so irresistible to a man. And we don't live in that world anymore. We live in a world where women want to wear things, even if it is still problematic, where their sexual pleasure, even if it is sexy to a man, you go, how do you feel empowered? how does this prop up your natural assets how does this make you feel like an innately sexual being and i just feel like the evolution of the brand completely skipped that savage fenty time and just stayed locked in like the 20 the 200 wait the 20 hundreds wait what's it called the 2000s oh my god the noughties the noughties the 20 hundreds wait what's it called the 2000s oh my god the noughties the 20

it basically stayed there whereas the rest of the branding kind of went no women are feminists and they are in this new age of feminism where actually they want everything to allow them access to pleasure they want to feel like bosses they want to feel like ceos they want to feel like in charge in the bedroom in the boardroom it feels like it skipped that and we are still in that like 1990s dress for your man and i just feel like watching the show i was like are these designs i don't think they were nice they maybe weren't that like sexy sexy like you're a teen girl's jailbait is problematic but they weren't that sexy like I wouldn't wear them feeling comfort or sexy I don't know what you both thought yeah I think the biggest crime of the show apart from just the like bare minimum of the diversity

was just that the clothes were boring like it's it's just I remember the Victoria's Secret fashion shows just being these insane performances and also these bejeweled like Swarovski crystal bras that cost x amount of money and that just being a headline in itself but there was just none of that it was just really boring very normal underwear you know with these giant wings and I think I just if if we are bringing it back for all the problems and the issues we've stated at the very least wouldn't it just be so in your face and so exciting that they come back with a bang it just it was so it was so just mad the clothes. It fell flat. I did also feel a way that I've been trying not to feel about my body, but they are just the height of gorgeousness and sexiness.

And even people were like, oh my God, the over 35s representing, which is all these models that have walked for Victoria's Secret for years. And even at 35, if anything, they look even more amazing. But that just kind of killed me as well. But maybe that's a personal issue, not Victoria's Secret. I just didn't loiter over the bodies too much because I think I was preemptively just being like not today Satan not today I think from a marketing point of view you know hauling back the 90s supermodels we've seen it before it's not a new thing to us now Skims did that that. There's various other marketing campaigns. We've had a documentary on Disney that's brought back the 90s supermodel. It's not new. It's not

innovative. So I think we're in the age of collaboration. We're post-brat. If you are going to collaborate and bring somebody from history to make them a massive part of the fact that this is an iconic show you really have to do you really have to be selective and you really have to be creative and it wasn't creative in that way I remember Savage Fenty did a similar kind of Amazon almost like film catwalk performance with you know their new season where and they brought Demi Moore they brought Lizzo Bella Hadid Paloma Ilseza Cara Delevingne India Moore so a I've already checked out more diversity than in this VS show all in one sentence and that was only a fraction of the people I could name they in 2020 had done this already and done it better. And it was more creative. I remember surrounded by all

of these, you know, stars who are coming out. There were dancers just kind of like moving and contorting in this underwear in the most beautiful, aesthetic, gorgeous way. It was just so creative. I remember being sickened watching it and I was just like, fuck, this is so cool. That was fucking 2020. Like what is this in comparison to that level of creativity, you know? You just made me think, you know, FKA Twigs' new song, is it You Sexer? I never know how you say it. Sexier, I think. I don't know that.

You Sexier. I don't know if you've seen the music video, but it's amazing. She's kind of like in this really drab office and she's dancing on the chair. I was just thinking the ways that they could have had, you're right, like incorporating dancers or athletes or everyone has done this sort of heritage of models who's so right it's all been done it was just nothing new and innovative i basically think it's obviously going to drive sales it's got them right back into the public public consciousness when i was looking up every single publication from the daily mail to vogue to l to forbes to sienna like everyone is

writing about it and talking about it. It's going to have had an impact, but I do think that they're going to have lost their gravitas. And I found it also even a bit flat when the models were like, Gigi and everyone was saying, oh, well, it's so exciting because it's the first one in Asia that feels like the first one again. And then I watched it and I was like... But of the pieces, are there anything that you would want to wear? And I extend this to the listeners and anyone who perhaps is involved in that,

because it might just be that I have aged out of wearing fun, sexy underwear, but I just feel like tastes have changed. I feel like people are focused on sustainability, female empowerment. They do not want to even think that there's a male lens through which their own lingerie trends are going. And I had the same critiques for Savage by Fenty when Johnny Depp walked in 2022, which was the year of the very infamous defamation trial. I feel very strange and suspicious of all these massive brands doing quote-unquote female empowerment via lingerie when actually I do think prestige brands do it better and I know they're not inclusive I just think it's a very problematic industry that just no longer reflects female desire and there was actually a great piece which came out this year um called I think it was for halosphere which is a a small magazine like an

online magazine um by savannah bradley about lingerie about how difficult it is for women to feel sexy in lingerie in like modern day and how she keeps finding herself on these pr lists for all of these lingerie brands and it all just feels ridiculous it has these inherent promises of sexuality and actually just like the industry does not keep these promises and it's brilliant as she says and there's a great quote i love lingerie but it's about sight eroticism is incongruous with sight it's about hidden pleasure mystery masquerade freedom secrecy lingerie is not secret it is a sexual offering an altar made from visible blessings true True eroticism

comes from what cannot be seen, predicted, sensed, or divined. Eroticism carries an essential risk. Lingerie has no risk. It is as plain as a donut. And I wonder whether you both agree with that, whether actually we've passed the gauntlet and we've seen too many little slippy numbers that it's no longer the sexiest part of sex it's nothing it's a donut i was just nodding furiously so i just forgot that people can't see that i'm nodding furiously fyi the last thing i was going to say was which i thought was a massive failing on that part and i know she's on tour but all of serena carpenter's tour outfits have been made by victoria's secret so those little rhinestones gemstones sort of bodices she's had on

are all made by Victoria's Secret. And there could have been such an interesting way of including her, but actually using her inspiration, perhaps making like little baby doll outfits, perhaps changing slightly from the basic or the kind of ideas they do and maybe really capitalizing on the fact that she has this whole brand of being short, really beautiful and horny. Like that's her whole thing. And actually expanding that universe out and seeing about having people that

weren't models, people in different bodies. I'm now thinking they could have all been like little cherubs on clouds with little wings rather than that. I don't know. The fact that she, I don't think necessarily loads of people even know that she is wearing the Taurus Secret. It must be because she's on tour. But there is so much to play with with that. And I think if they'd aligned themselves with her and built everything around that and maybe even lent into more of a 70s vibe or just done something that was more coherent, cohesive and felt new, I think I could have got on board.

But it was just the same thing with ever so slightly different elements in different colors hard agree that yeah that sounds like such a good marketing ploy they should get you back in the room well I guess let us know what you think were you tuned in will you be tuning in to watch anything again when was the last time that you wore a padded underwear bra and do you think lingerie is dead or are we just sexless boring thank you so much for listening this week if you've enjoyed the podcast please tell a friend or 12 and leave us a rating on your podcast app five stars also please follow us on instagram

at everything is content pod where you'll find us getting even more stuck into the discourse and please you can always join in as an open invite always see you next week you