Everything Is Content - Elizabeth Gilbert's New Memoir, Rylan Backlash & The Pop Culture Headlines

Episode Date: September 5, 2025

EIC school is in session – get your notebooks out!This week on the podcast we’re tackling Elizabeth Gilbert’s wild promo ride for her new memoir All the Ways to the River, which is out on 9th September. As part of it she shared some excerpts for The Cut in a long read titled, ‘My Once-in-a-Million-Years Love Story When my best friend was diagnosed with cancer, I promised to be there until the end. Then all hell broke loose.’ Oh what a read...Next we tackle Rylan’s misinformed and dangerous comments over immigration and asylum seekers. How was he allowed to spread right-wing falsehoods on national TV? Finally the biggest stories across pop culture from a new celeb hook-up, to one viral star's unexpected pivot to modelling fast fashion...In collaboration with Cue Podcasts.This week Oenone loved The Guard and Black Books; Beth loved Real Housewives of New York and Ruchira loved The Summer I Turned Pretty and Christian Girl Autumn.The Cut pieceThe Big Issue: Are asylum seekers 'living it up' in luxury hotels like Rylan says? Here's the reality Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, listeners, meet Russell. Hey! Russell just launched a fitness app, and he needed to get the word out to busy professionals looking to stay fit. So I turned to ACAST. I used their smart recommendations feature to easily find shows that talk about health and fitness. Booking sponsorships through their platform was a breeze. And just like that, my app was in their ears during their morning run.

Sounds like a smart move, Russell. How's business looking now? Sweat is pouring. And so are the installs. Spread the word about your business with podcast ads on ACAST. Start today at go.acast.com slash advertise. I'm Beth.

I'm Richerra. And I'm anoni. And this is Everything is Content, the podcast that selects the week's biggest stories to analyze in-depth. From TikToks to TV and tantalizing long raids, we cover it all.

We're the salacious memoir everyone's pre-ordering weeks in advance. This week on the podcast, We're tackling Elizabeth Gilbert's wild promo ride, Rylan's comments over asylum seekers, and a brand new segment where we bring you four juicy internet stories. Follow us on Instagram at Everything Is Content Pod and make sure you hit follow on your podcast player so you never miss an episode. But first, what have you both been loving this week? I, your listeners will be pleased to hear, have got a bumper recommendation pack because I know I've been

lacking lately. So I recently went to Ireland and as such decided to indulge in some Irish-based entertainment, although whether or not you think it's entertaining. So the first thing I wanted to recommend, which I don't know if any of you've seen, is Calvary, which is a 2014 film directed by John Michael McDonagh, who is the brother of the guy that directed Banshees of Inashirin and the other one. It's really famous that I can't think. And it stars Brendan Gleason, Chris O'Dowd, Donald Gleason. And it's basically about this really sweet man who's a priest in a very small parish and he's got really good intentions.

And it's kind of like a dark comedy, but very dark. And everyone in the parish is sort of like up to no good. Have either of you seen this? I haven't even heard of this. I've seen this. I love this. And it reminds me of another film, I think by the same guy. also Brendan Gleason called The Guard

which I think has a very similar dark comedy same with like in Bruges I think if you've seen one of these films go and watch them all To my shame I don't really remember Calvary very well but the guard I absolutely loved watched bunch times and I do remember it being very funny and he's a police or he's a police officer in that

he's part of the guardee but I just have no memory of this film I know I have seen it though So the guard was before I now want to watch that because then I was looking up about it The Guard was the pre-cut like the film before this and it's got this amazing cast of like very famous Irish actors. But it's, it's so comedic, but it's also so dark.

In Bruges, right, that's the other one I was thinking of that I like, I can't. I almost don't know how I feel about these films because they kind of like wrong foot you and that they're really funny, but then something really awful will happen where I have to like cover my eyes. But very, very good, Richard, I would recommend 100%. Okay, I'll add to my list. My second Irish recommendation is a sitcom which I can't believe I've never watched because it's so up my street, although it was co-produced, co-written by Graham Linehan, who I wonder if we might even talk about him today, who recently actually got arrested because of his transphobic remarks and tweets.

So that's a slight on this show. But one of the characters, actors in Calvary is in this other show called Black Books, which was a late 90s early naughty's sitcom that was on Channel 4 about this Irish man that owns a bookshop, and it is so good. Making my way through this. Have either of you seen this one? So the weird, a weird, like, possibly unexpected thing about me is my dad would raise me on all of these kind of old sitcoms. So I used to watch that Faulty Towers, only Fools and Horses.

I can't remember the ones with the bouquets. You know, the couple called the bouquets, but they're actually called Bucke. Yes. Is that one? Yeah. Exactly. And it's so unexpected, but I, yeah, I feel like in my bones when you said that I, like, got a flashback and I was like, I do actually know this show, yes. I think it's one of the best shows. I think it's one of my favorite shows. if you are if you're a fan of irreverent British comedy from that era Graham Linehan was involved in so many of them like Father Ted I mean even like Motherland I think he co-wrote the first series of that but black stuff is so good yeah I mean you can't get away from it which is why I think people were so like what are you doing man

you're torturing your reputation which is like really strong in this comedy world you're probably never work in this again because you've decided to go down the route of like insane bigotry but anyway black books is so funny because it's so weird and I love weird shows. The oddness of all. It's like it's a world, like the first episode, it is What's His Face with the Fun Hair. Bill Bailey. Bill Bailey swallows a tiny book and there's a whole storyline about it. There's one episode which I talk about all the time where the main characters, I think it's a dinner party where he's really bored and he goes under the table and there's like a whole bar under the table and he gets served a pint or something. It's so funny.

It's just like, what an imagination. It's really surrealist. But also Tamsing Greg, Greg, I never know how his head name, who I love. She owns this lovely little shop. next door that's like bits and bobs i can't get over also i realize that's my dream job i want to own a bookshop where no like you don't actually want to suddenly books you just want to sit there smoking and drinking wine it looks is the dream life i love that you're a fan of that i love that you watch all of those shows growing up richar yeah it kind of made me think maybe that's why i love tv so much because i don't know anything about music my parents weren't into other kinds of culture but tv right from the offset maybe i watched way too much tv with my dad it's nothing wrong with

much TV. You also, it is the golden era. So I just checked it to 2000 to 2004. I love like AbFab. There's something about TV of that age. You cannot recreate it. And also I find it very comforting just like the seat, the actual era, that era of time is just very lovely. So I'm going to watch all of that and then probably watch it all over again. Then my last thing that I went to see at the cinema on the weekend with friend of the show Livy is a movie called Sorry Baby. Have either of you heard of it? I have heard of this and it looks great. So I really need to hear your review of this.

I've not heard of this one. There's so many films at the moment that are like two words. There's like, honey, don't. That's like, sorry, baby. I just feel like I can't keep up. What are all these films? Use more than two words. So I hadn't heard this until Livy sent to me.

She's like, I'm desperate to go and see this. It's an A-24 film and it's written and directed by Eva Victor who plays the central character who is a woman who goes through a sexual assault. And it's a non-linear timeline of her experience. and I can't remember how much I can give spoilers away, but it's extremely beautifully shot. It's very modern, it's very still. The setting is that it starts off like a few years after this has happened

and she's teaching as a lecturer at her, the school that she's studied at. It's a really great, I think, depiction of the impact of what sexual assault can do to a person and kind of the descent into, life after as a survivor I guess. It's really funny and it's basically another dark comedy which I would really recommend but it really tugs at you and just recommend you both go and see it. I think you really like it. I will absolutely go see that 100%. God, I feel guilty. My recommendation is so bad

now. What is your recommendation? Okay, so I'll do a quick update first because I think it was last week or week before that I said I was watching Love is Blind UK. That's now wrapped up including the reunion which looks juicy. I've not seen it. I was very happy with that. I was satisfied with that. People got married, found love, are still together. So good stuff. Would recommend watching the whole thing if you need a binge. But the main thing I've been loving, I wonder if I've mentioned this in last week's episode, but it's really, really old episodes of the Real Housewives of New York, like really old, first season, second season. And I'm just embarrassed to say that. I'm in, mentally, I'm in 2009 with these women, they're arguing on BlackBreeze. They are wearing

bodycon dresses. They are all so toxic. Do you know what it is? And maybe I did mention this. I can't remember. My brain has failed me. But we watched the Real Housewives of London the first episode. I got my little Hey You subscription, forgot to cancel it. And now I thought, okay, well, I'm not going to waste my money. I'm instead going to watch, like, maybe half a dozen episodes of the Royal Houseways of New York from 2009. When was that? Like, 16 years ago? What am I thinking? Like, I've got a job. But anyway, I have to say it's absolutely excellent. It is so toxic. It is so many comments about, like, weight and skininess. which you, so off the time, you can kind of see why there was such a big, not overcorrection,

but such a big push after that to be like body positivity, fat activists, it is so toxic. But it is the series of Bethany Frankel. It's the series of Ramona and Turtle Time, Countess Luanne de la Ceps, who is a gay icon now. So I do sort of feel like it's cultural history is how I'm telling myself that I'm not wasting my life by rewatching this. but I am embarrassed to say that. That makes me so happy. I love Rony. Rony is a special jewel in the star tiara of Bravo shows.

It's so special, so delicious. I never have watched series one, two, and three. I started straight from four, which if you are new to the Rone series, I think is a good entry point because it's a bit more current, but also all the kind of craziness happens in four and five. So maybe I should put my money where my mouth is

and actually watch the first few series. Join me. It's insane. It's so funny to say that Richard, because I can't, this is why I can't watch those shows because I cannot start something in the middle. Like when I, I think we were, I can't remember recording this time, maybe not, but I remember I was on holiday with my friends for my birthday.

We'd gone skiing and we were delayed at the airport and I was reading online all of the drama that was happening with Vanderpump Rules and I hadn't watched Van and Pump Rules for years. So I sat in the airport and I went back to whatever season I'd left off three and watched from season three to get to season 11. Like I would have to start from season one. And also the other funny thing is I've never watched New York, but I think I've seen Countess Luann at Mighty Hoopla

and then like some other events. So I'm so aware of the cultural iconness of these women despite never actually ingested any of their series. I think you'd love them. I think you would find a lot to admire and detest and just become obsessed with in them, especially Countess Luan. She goes through the ringer.

She publicly, I mean, at the moment she's still kind of on a high, she's just got divorce, spoiler, from her count husband, she's dating. And I know in her future there's cheating, there's pirates, there's an arrest. But then there's a kind of retribution as gay icon in her 50s and 60s. So, God, it is Shakespearean, this stuff. And I feel less embarrassed now that you've both sort of endorsed this. What is the count out of interest? It's, I can't, she does explain this in the show. Basically, her family or her husband's, former husband's family, built the Suez Canal. So I think it's given to, I don't know, people have no, I don't really remember.

Right, okay. Because she talks about it all the time. It's not like an earl kind of thing. Well, what's an earl, do we know? I don't know what that is either, but they feel similar. Is it like a duke? Oh my God, I forgot about dukes. But isn't a duke, a Duke is a Prince William Duke of?

This is making sense. Yes, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. so yes so I think they're really close to the world family I think an earl is this is what I was wondering like is a count

because she's American right but is it count countess to me sounds well A it kind of sounds like Dracula but B it sounds like something um aristocratic but how is that happening in New York I've googled it a countess

there's a noble woman who holds a rank equivalent to that of a count or Earl or the wife for Count or an Earl so Earl L s is are they real what's a lady Earl I actually can't go I actually can't do this. We could be on this thread.

No, I actually feel sick. Like, my brain is sick. Oh, Gratey. This probably will never affect us. I feel like we actually probably don't need to know this. Also, I will say the best count is the count on Sesame Street, which is the vampire, who says, van, two, three. Oh, because he's counting.

Yeah. And he's a vampire. What have you been loving, Richerra? I said what I loved. Oh, have you done it? No, no, no, I just meant the count. But so I don't know if you... Oh, I got...

I didn't say anything. then because I just was pretending that I remembered. I thought he actually had. I was like, I'm just going to sit here and pretend I listened really well. No, because we have done that before where we keep going to the same person. So the first one I'm going to bring up is Christian Girl Autumn. Have you heard of Christian Girl Autumn? Yeah, she's an icon.

Of course. So this year, I'm going to do my own Christian Girl Autumn. I've already had two pumpkin spice lattes this week and I've rooted out my jumpers and it might be 20 degrees outside currently in London by I'm going to start wearing turtlenecks, I think, and really make this my Christian girl autumn. I love that for you. I did start watching Gilmore Girls again the other night. Exactly.

That's cozy. Exactly. I'm trying to what else is sort of off that era because I don't really like pumpkin spice. I will be wearing lots of cozy things. The seasonal depression of it all, of course. I've never had a pumpkin spice latte. So I'm not going to lie, a PSL is not the best tasting drink, but I think you just have to go through it because there is nothing more autumnal tasting. than a PSL. I think like an oat milk chai latte gives because it's still got that wintry spice

that could sort of, that's what we used to drink at school is chai latte because we thought they were coffee. We had no idea. Oh, they're so delicious though. That is hilarious that you thought that was coffee though. Just because of the latte part, but then obviously you got older and find out that just means loads of milk. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to bring to the table and a few people replied to my very deranged story about this is the last episode of the summer I turned Pretty, which is series three episode eight, I believe. And it just was, I don't even know what to say because I think it's now becoming really apparent that everyone who is part of this fandom is actually going to come to a massive crash when the next three episodes come and we're done

with this series because that will be the end. And what they've been doing is slowly like building the tension up to a level, which is now going to be almost like falling off. of a cliff. Like, I don't know what's going to happen to us all. I feel quite scared for my mental health. I'm so attached to this show that is so silly. I don't know what else I'm going to replace it with. I've been wanting to ask you about this because I did actually think about starting it the other day, because I have a clear memory of when it first started people thinking it was shit. But this, whatever's happening right now, which I've kind of absorbed via osmosis, I've seen so many people's Instagram stories that I follow. Is it something that you have to

invest 40 hours of your life for this payoff, this level of obsession? Yeah. Is it worth it? It is worth it. It's kind of like, I don't know, I don't, I feel bad because it's almost like I'm walking you to your emotional death because it is so extreme what I'm feeling. I don't know if it's a good thing to make people feel this. It's almost like the most intense sorrow, yearning, distress, devastation, but also like joy. It's like all of those things all together. I sound insane. Maybe I am insane, but that's what, that's what's happening for me. Do you think that's safe for a single person, that level? I don't know.

Honestly, I don't know. Maybe that will actually kill me off. Yeah, so maybe don't watch it yet. I did start watching Narcos, which is very different. That's a different vibe. That's safe. It was between that. I was like, maybe I'll watch the Summer I turn pretty,

and then I was like, oh, I haven't watched Narcos yet. Maybe stick with Narcos. Narcos sounds like it's a safer emotional territory to be in. And I want to bring my crush back on Pedro Pascal because I really lost it from the materianess. Oh my God, he's in there, isn't he? I know I forgot that as well. That is kind of what it sold me. So to start this week, we're going to be trying out something slightly new, and please do let us know in your DMs what you think. So long-time listeners of our Wednesday episodes will know that we used to kick those off by telling you the biggest headlines of the week.

We loved doing it. A lot of you loved hearing it. But because of the way that we record those episodes, it isn't possible to include them there. But we miss them, and so we're going to try and bring them back in a slightly different format on Fridays by picking some of the best, weirdest, most interesting headlines from the world of celebrity, pop culture, news, politics, the lot, and sharing our thoughts. And this week, I think there's so many to choose from. And firstly, and without ceremony, I don't know how online the two of you were over the weekend, specifically on Twitter. There was a day or a couple of days where people were really convinced that President, Donald Trump had died. Did you see this? Were you online for this? Because I wasn't and I'm regretting it. I was seeing it, but I joined in at a point where no one was even saying

Donald Trump and everyone was just like, he's dead. And I was like, who's dead? And there was just so much of it. And then I eventually gathered the information. But then it also got to the point where people were fighting, people were being like, you're so pathetic, spreading this rumor. So I did catch the tail end of it. And I wish that I had been more online for that day because I feel like it would have been really good, you know, where someone's put a gift of popcorn in the comments and then you're just sitting there scrolling. It would have been a great time to just lose your mind.

I haven't been online for the last four or five days. So I'm confused of the origin of where this came from. I've seen the bruising on his hand, the kind of imagery that's gone round with the kind of like black and purple marks and the claims that he's tried to use makeup to hide the bruising for a while. So that kind of sense of there's something going on that everyone knows something is up in the administration, but they're not letting on. But I don't really understand why this weekend it all popped off. So I think basically what it was, was he wasn't

pictured for a few days. He wasn't cited. He wasn't at some events that people thought he would be at. Obviously, yes, the bruise on the hand, and then the weird kind of flesh-colored paste. And then J.D. Vance, the vice president, did not help matters. In an interview, he basically, I think he was asked what will happen, you know, if you had to succeed. the president. And he did say he's in fighting for him. And this was about a week before. He's doing great. But then he was like, but I'm ready to step in if there's a terrible tragedy. And everyone leapt on that quote. It was like, there's been a terrible tragedy. And I do regret missing it, but it seems like it was a firestorm. There were some funny memes where

people are like, he's going to come back snatched. He's going to get 360 LIPO. He's stuck on the roof with the White House. I think people were, some people were very convinced, but I think most people were just trying to have a little fun with it. And as we've since seen, he is back. He just started playing golf again one day. There was actually a really good recent episode of the news agents, which I now can't remember what they said he has, but basically, apparently the bruising is symptomatic of when you have blood flow issues, the blood is struggling to get up, like, from your legs to your heart. And there is still rumour that he's not that well, because he's not properly leaving Washington, like, he hasn't gone on any of his holidays. And he has played golf,

but only, like, very close to home. So it is a story to keep watch of. And like, obviously with Joe Biden, find out for a very long time that he wasn't very well. So you're hearing it here. He's alive. I hope he doesn't listen to this. Sounds like he's got other things to think about. So my favourite, just like tangential story from this is I saw Rolling Stone reported, I think in the last day or two that Donald Trump has allegedly just lied about not

seeing all the kind of viral stories about him being dead. So during his first kind of public visit after the Ferrari that happened over the weekend, a Fox reporter asked him. directly have you seen all the stories claiming that you died over the weekend and he said no no you know like wild stuff fake news obviously with joe biden at something else with me fit and healthy fake news and then i think some rolling stone reporter called up the white house and somebody at the white house said quote unquote he fucking sees everything so admitted that he was aware of it all and basically admitted that he lied but also he went on truth social which is his own social media

I obviously didn't follow him there. I don't have an account. But he wrote, I have never felt better in my life, which reminded me of that scene from Euphoria, where I can't remember the girl's name, played by Sidney, is like, damn bad, having the worst time for life in love with this horrible man. And she's like, I have never been fucking happier. I was like, okay, Donald, me thinks the girl does protest too much. So a headline that really grabbed my attention this week, because it was so absurd. It was fast fashion giant sheen. Is it she in? I never know. has launched an investigation after an image of Luigi Mangione, accused of murdering United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in New York last year,

was used to model a shirt. And so there's a picture on their website of what looks like Luigi Mangioni wearing a spring, summer, floral, short-sleeved shirt. Have you guys seen this? I have absolutely seen this. And, yeah, I almost wanted to cry because I knew we had to bring it up on the podcast. And it's like, this podcast will just be a circular event where we're just referencing things from like over the last year over and over because they've probably

got boohoo deals or pretty little thing deals regardless of who they are. But I have seen it and I also read on the BBC that they used some of their kind of like verification tracking software and had a 99.9% confirmation or verification that it was an AI image. So yeah, just great stuff all around. Tick, tick tick for this year's lottery card of content. What about you, Beth? It was such an ugly shirt. I hadn't seen it until I think one of you posted it somewhere. I was like, well, yeah, such a 20-25 news story. It's, I'm always like dying to talk about this because he's such a figure online, but obviously it's like an open case. He has pled, I think he's pled innocent or not guilty to these charges. It's ongoing. He has such

a legion of fans or supporters. And I was like, is this like activism putting him in this ugly shirt? Is this what's going on? Or is it the other thing? I was really confused by this. it did make me laugh briefly and then I was like actually is this really dark something that really made me laugh actually I saw a Reddit thread where someone had written Luigi would never model for an exploitive corporation like Sheen and the top response with like 4,000 plus upvotes was I hate to say it but he did at 644 am on December the 4th 2024 Luigi and I were both modelling for Sheen and someone else replied below my beautiful chart is in the PJ set picture below Luigi was so kind and helped calm her down on her fur shoot. a stand-up guy, which I'm saying nothing on, but I think it speaks to his position online. It's just so ridiculous. So the spokesperson from Sheen told BBC News that the imaging question was provided by a third-party vendor and was removed immediately upon discovery, and they now said they're conducting a thorough investigation, strengthening their monitoring processes. But what it makes me think is that it's probably, again, a lot of AI is at the

hand of this where they're like, what's a popular image of like a handsome model online? it's completely missed the part where he's actually, you know, a guy who's being, they're trying to convict of murder, potentially to the point of the death penalty. And then they've just pulled that image and sold it to Sheehan. And this is why we should never trust AI. What's my closing thought? His worst offences that is just actually thick.

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. On a bit of a pivot, one story that I saw this week that I feel like has been bubbling for a little while and I've seen rumours, but it's now officially been confirmed that Chloe Mal is going to be the top editor at American Vogue after Anna Wintour's stepped aside.

Have you seen this? And also, do you have any thoughts about this? Because it is a big deal, but it also might not be a huge deal. I think it does feel like a big deal, because a bit like the Queen Anna Wintor has been our editor and sitting for like our whole adult lives.

So it does, it feels, even though I'm not overly invested in Anna Wintor, she's such a stalwart of my understanding of the world of fashion and fashion. I think it's going to be really odd to have someone without her cunty bob and sunglasses sat in that seat. And it's just making me think what we really need is actually a succession type program about her ascent to the throne of vogue. I would love to watch that. It does feel a little bit like conclave popish. Like they are sort of, and I know, obviously I don't

know this because I'm a non-fashionista, but I read this. I was reading about the job. She's not getting Anna Winter's job. She's getting a job kind of in line with that. She's going to be the top person, but she's not going to be called editor-in-chief. And also Anna Winter is retaining. She's still going to be head of editorial for Condi Nast. I was like, you know that tweet about, I think it's about Nicola Sturgeon, which is like, you've done a good job, hen, put your feet up and get the dildo out. I was like, you can do that Anna Winter.

At 75 years old, why are you not quitting? Why are you not retiring? But obviously she's the Donald Trump of fashion. She just will not quit. I'm kind of impressed. I'm kind of like, is this going to be our country bob for the ages? is will she gradually, will Chloe gradually see her hair, kind of start to shape into a little bob with a cuntilot fringe to be seen?

It's so funny, isn't it? Because it's like, the wording around all of it at first, everyone was like, Anna Winter leaves Vogue. And then you see in the fine print that actually she's not leaving at all. She's not even stepping aside, really. She's just moving into a different thing. She's still a senior publisher at Condonast, especially American Vogue. She's just looking for somebody else to kind of move up slightly.

not move up slightly that's probably undermining it but it is like I don't know if it's a replacement it just seems like somebody is going to become like her figurehead if that makes sense that's kind of what I think is happening here and also my little tidbit I was interviewed by Chloe last year for a job as like a news editor at Vogue so it feels very very strange that I could have met Anna Wintour 2.0 so that's actually very cool that's very cool yeah yeah that's so we're only two degrees of separation away from Anna Wintour right one degree i just need to get to you oh no get to her get to her too i also think it's interesting just all the kind of hype around edward ennful and it really felt like this huge surge of excitement

around vogue and i know it's british vogue and british vogue and american vogue are two separate entities but i feel like there hasn't been that much excitement across the board as far as i've seen for this appointment i wonder if it's just like a general kind of malaise around vogue the brand or just a specific element of, oh, you know, it's another person who was already in the vogue atmosphere. It's not a new kind of hire that's left field coming somewhere interesting, like a different fashion magazine, maybe ID days, something like that. It feels like this just made sense and it was maybe not a shock or surprise to the system. What do you think? Yeah, it's not like super catty. It's not gossipy. It doesn't feel a few, I saw a few accusations of like, well,

she's an epa baby, which she was like, yes, I'm an epa baby. I have. And by that, I think she just had well-connected parents. I think her mom and dad actor and film director, so I wasn't quite sure the connection, but then you look at her history, she's basically just been slogging away in this business. She sort of seems like an Andy from Devil Wears Prada type, because I read an interview that she had initially been like, I'm not

interested in working fashion, I want to be a writer on editor, and now for her to be kind of stepping into Anna Winters, I was about to say her little Prada mules, but does she wear Prada mules? I wouldn't know. It does feel like a sort of Andy trajectory. I do agree. It doesn't have any of the excitement of that Edward Enumful thing, but I wonder if that's just we don't really know her.

So to end on something, again, sort of trashy celebrity. Sydney Sweeney and Scooter Braun are dating, at least according to TMZ, who said in like big black headline letters, they are in a situation ship and also apparently met at Jeff Bezos's wedding. I've got to say, like her trajectory at the moment is really confusing to me. It's like, Every single week she does something which just pisses everyone off. Are you sort of like, are you across this? Do you have any opinions on Scooter Braun who is hated in the Swifty community? So I, as soon as I saw this story, I was like, this woman hates herself.

She hates her own public image. She's digging the grave of her image publicly. And at this point, it's so far down. She doesn't need to do any more. It's all good. But she's still digging away, digging away. She's really grafting at this. And if that is, you know, a project of self-annihilation in the media, she's, it's a very

interesting project that's going very well. What do you think? Anoni. Yeah, just everything she does just feels so random and not in a good way. And it's just really confusing. Maybe this is just the attention economy. She's turning it on its head and she's just doing slightly aggravating things or very aggravating things in order to keep her relevant. I just want a world where beautiful women, albeit she's quite problematic at this point in time, not that strips her from her beauty, but beautiful women are with beautiful men, which is why I was so happy about Harry Stiles and Zoe Kravitz. And this, I just think it's not for me. And I don't really know what she's up to. And I don't, I don't,

a girl, you're so confusing, that's what I say to Sydney, Sweeney. It's kind of like she's spinning a wheel being like, this is how I'm going to piss people off this week. I mean, she's had like the bathwater thing, the unfortunate eugenics gene ad, I think a few years ago, the party for family where people were or whatnot in Maga hats. And it's like she's spinning the wheel and she's like, this week I'm going to date, Spins, Swin's, Spins, Spence, Spend, Spend, Spence, Ben, who Taylor's publicly beefed with on Tumblr in 2019. It just feels like, yeah, she's sort of, she's like, you think you've seen public enemy number one. Let me show you. I would just like to sit down with her and be like, what's going on, girl? Are you okay? Because she is single.

or she just broke up with her fiancé, she should be out having situationships with rich guys. But this rich guy, I just don't really, I can't quite fathom it. You might know her as the author of Eat, Pray, Love, or the inspiration for Coyote Ugly. Either way, Elizabeth Gilbert is back with a brand new memoir, and this promises to be extremely dramatic. So how do we know this? Well, she's on a promo run for All the Ways to the River, which is out on the 9th of September, and as part of this, she shared some excerpts from the book for The Cut in a long read titled My Once in a Million Years' Love Story.

When my best friend was diagnosed with cancer, I promised to be there until the end. Then all hell broke loose. In it, she details falling in love with her best friend, Raya, leaving a husband, finding out Raya has terminal cancer. She writes that Raya's diagnosis gave her a permission to act with no consequences, right from eating whatever she wanted to, drinking, and then taking drugs freely, even after struggling with addiction in the past. The problem is, Elizabeth does the exact same with her. As the cancer gets worse, doctors prescribe rea methadone and fentanyl patches, and raya relapses heavily

adding cocaine to the mix. A few quotes from the excerpts are, I can't even tell you when I collapsed into the utter abandonment of self that is codependency in its most deadly and life-destroying form. I can't name the exact moment when I'm made her into my higher power, or when I surrendered all my will and agency to her, or when I decided that it was my job in life to serve her every desire, no matter how much it cost me physically, emotionally or financially. Or did I completely lose my mind that night in the spring of 2017, where she commanded me to give her some cash so she could buy her first gram of cocaine, and I did it without hesitation? Or was it when I tied off her arms or legs for her while

she shot up, watching over her carefully, even holding the light for her so she could find her veins, to make sure she had everything she needed, just so I could be in the room with her to make sure she wanted me, loved me and approved of me, to make sure that she, who had clearly already left the world behind, and who was also, by the way, dying, would never, ever leave me. So, Elizabeth then kind of details her attending sex and love addict meetings, and after initial kind of resistance to the lessons there. She says that the messaging really begins to sink in. She also then breaks up with Raya. And one thing I've seen from the criticism and the kind of discourse around the piece is a lot of people taking umbrage to this particular point of

the story. And Elizabeth details a lot of what she claims she said to Raya. Some of the lines that have really bothered people is the lines where she says Raya lost her integrity and she says a line about her walking away from greatness in and among kind of talking about the issues she's clearly got with drugs. Gia Tolentino also wrote a viral New Yorker piece on Elizabeth Gilbert and some of it was absolutely searing, but this is the final paragraph I'm going to read before we dive in. Early on in the piece, Gia Tolentino writes, quote, but Gilbert's most pervasive influence can be found online in the breathless having just finally realized tone that dizzying numbers of women who narrate their lives on the internet

have adopted. On social media, many of the most chaotic and emotionally law people you've ever known are posting on a regular basis about having at long last achieved in a piece. Many among us, after observing this cringe-inducing side effect of regular self-nouration at mass scale, have given up altogether on sincere ideas of personal epiphany. But even those who might seek to subvert that tone, or invoke it ironically, and negotiating the same conventions, Gilbert might be patient zero for the latter-day memoirist mindset. So many women, and I would never exclude myself, have come to believe at some level that they too are Elizabeth Gilberts, people who search hard and love harder, whose personal journeys can and should

captivate millions, whose flaws and failings only make them better heroines in the end. I just, I feel like if somebody wrote that about me, I don't know if I would cry, but anyway, what did you think of the pieces and the commentary around the fact that people think Elizabeth Gilbert is a narcissist, and most importantly, are you going to read the book? I am a self-confessed Elizabeth Gilbert fan-girls. City of Girls is one of my most favorite books I've ever read, signature of all things. Again, these are like a couple of her fictions. I love them. I also love big magic, which if you haven't read it is like a really great book to help with creative breakthrough. I love eat, pray love. But after a while, not to agree with Gia Tolentino, this woman, how many experiences can one woman have? And I think she's an incredible writer. She's an incredible storyteller. and I find her absolutely fascinating. But when I was reading the piece about this, I guess sometimes with memoir,

I do find it uncomfortable when the story a person is telling isn't necessarily their own and when it's so sensitive. I think it's uncomfortable to mine your own experiences like we've spoken about in order to like sell your wares. But when it's veering into telling someone else's really traumatic, very personal story

that is probably going to impact tens, if not hundreds of people that are outside of Elizabeth Gilbert, I then do start to feel like, am I a voyer to a story that I wasn't necessarily invited to listen to or to read about? So I don't know,

having gobbled up pretty much everything she writes, and I wish she would write more fiction because I have to say, like, her fiction is exceptional. I was extremely shocked reading that cut essay. It was a lot. But yeah, you do, when you read Giotontino's response,

you do think, how is she supposedly alongside kind of Glenn and Doyle a voice of self-discovery, self-understanding, when she is constantly, I'm sorry, doing quite toxic things, having quite toxic relationships. I think she's had affairs. I think she's a messy lady. What about you, Beth? Oh, she isn't, she's a messy lady, and I'm sure she's going to put that on the, on the blurb. I remember when this book was announced, we were, we didn't really know the substance of it, but the three of us, we were like, great, we'll get our hands on the,

that that's going to have the juice. And then it was, I think I saw a tweet from the writer Brandy Jensen, where she was quoting this piece. And this is why I went to properly read it. She said, clearly the cast affected running a certain style of self-aggrandizing, faux-searching, while ultimately exculpatory personal essays. But oh my God. And linked it.

And I was like, okay, right, hang on. Is this something, capital S, something. Reddit. It is, it's bonkers. It is made more bonkers with the review and the essay by, Giotontino where there's details in that, I mean, we'll get onto it. There's attempted murder, which is just bonkers. I think the myth of Elizabeth Gilbert, and I say this again, as a fan, is a really interesting one to explore. Like her book, the Eat, Pray, Love, the what she was writing

before that, it kind of launched, I would say probably tens of thousands, if not more, self-exploration journeys across the world. Like, it was unbelievably seismic. And so then she has existed in this, like, really rarefied space where she was the woman who kind of gave herself her life. She went out into the world and she took it. She left a bad marriage and found a good marriage. She kind of did everything right and was this almost gold standard. And she didn't insist upon this but I think people cast her as this like gold standard of I guess like heterosexuality and female empowerment. And then to watch her step away from that. Intentionally her marriage, the one that people were like, oh, she found him during the E. Pray Love era. Take up with her best friend who was dying

and then come out with all of these details, which are really hard, it's impossible to cut these without reading the whole book in a way where you're like, okay, I see the message, I see the journey. I think she's not torching a reputation, but she's certainly adding a dimension to it that I don't think people will be kind of perhaps less avid readers of hers might be a bit like, what the fuck? I thought you were just a nice lady that was played by Julia Roberts. What is this? I will be reading it, though. That's the thing. I want to have some kind of moral high ground. about the whole situation, but I'm absolutely going to pre-order the book and read it and probably

talk about it on this podcast. It's just, it's a level of confessional writing. And I think you're exactly on the money and only where it's just like reading that cut piece, the details are just quite horrifying. She goes into so much about what is undeniably a horrendously traumatic situation, namely, especially for the person who is dealing with addiction. And of course, her, but the person, the subject of the piece is the most vulnerable person imaginable. So it is really difficult to contend with about why this story is coming out specifically, especially when there's so many layers to it. And I think it really brings up the kind of moral quandary of who gets to tell their story. And for me, I think as we're having this conversation,

I kind of wonder, I don't know if I think this story should be out there. I don't know if it should be, or especially maybe now, maybe, you know, much further in the future. I think it's also the amount of details that are in it. And it's very hard to not feel uneasy about it all. It really is bringing up a lot of feeling. Yeah, who gets to tell their story? Should we be more filtered about the amount of details we put into our personal memoirs, especially when other people are involved?

do we all have a right to talk about everything because we experienced it that was definitely the belief I had a few years ago I don't know if I'm there anymore I think I've become a lot more dubious about that concept

and maybe just lost my bite a bit and I think especially from having written so much about my life and then having people be the subject of those stories I've really moved myself along the spectrum

of feeling quite uncomfortable about that process and I think this is the most extreme version of that example and I think it's like really making me feel uncomfortable and forcing me to accept that I don't think I'm, I don't think I feel the same that I used to a few years ago, which is everyone should be able to tell their story, all the warts and all, every single detail. I don't know if I think that anymore.

I guess we don't know from what we've read in the cut, whether or not Reya's family agreed or saw copies of the book before or were included. And obviously, there is form for waiting for someone to pass away before you tell their story. I'm thinking of like, I'm glad my mom died. and McCarady's incredible memoir where she kind of documented the years of abuse that she suffered at the hands of her mother a piece of writing which she could never

have put out into the world until her mother was no longer inhabiting it. But I think when it's your mum is very different from when it's someone that's totally separate from you. I don't want to police other people. Like I said, I don't actually know

whether or not she was ever given the olive branch to write this. But I wonder if maybe this didn't need to be a memoir, if maybe she could have taken everything. It's such a wild story. And whenever you read any of Elizabeth Gilbert's memoirs, it's, I think some people live lives that make them writers

and some people's lives are as they are because they are writers and they kind of are drawn to quite exceptional circumstances because they are romantics in the sense that they are drawn to kind of like drama and heightened emotions and crazy experiences because it paints the experience of life as an extremely colourful dynamic picture, which then can be translated later perhaps into memoir or fiction. And I just think this could have been something that she took the experience from her own lived experience and translated that into a work of fiction, into a film, into anything.

But I agree when I was reading, like you said, Ritterer, especially the bit when she's talking about Ray is slow descent into a kind of drug abuse when she's dealing with. with her terminal cancer, I was like, I don't know, I don't know that I should know this. I feel so uncomfortable. It feels so raw and complicated. And I think it's a really interesting thing to explore. It's something I've never really thought about what happens to someone when they are, you know, medicated on drugs that they used to take in a different sense. And how can that then actually maybe break down into a whole other set of problems? I think that's a really interesting thing to talk about. It must be, happen all the time, I'm sure.

Now that you're both saying you're going to read it, it's made me feel like I can read it too, because why am I on some High and Mighty Horse that I can't read the story? But for the first time, maybe it's because I'm a bit older as well. I was totally infatuated by Eat, Pray, Love. I wanted to do an Eat, Pray, Love. I wanted to go to Italy. I wanted to go to India. I wanted to go to Bali.

I wanted to have all of the experience that she had. I was like, this is how I will find myself. And I think so many, especially middle class white women of our generation who read that book were like, this is what I need to do in order to achieve enlightenment. And then you kind of read this story and you think, I don't know if this woman is that enlightened. And that's why maybe I'm just applying it too simplistically over the framework of the first one.

Like, ready, pray love, instructively. And having not read this book, maybe again, this is a different kind of instructive. Maybe this is, I'm telling this story because I was on the frontier of death and love, and it was not all saying nice goodbyes and gradually slipping away in the night. It was brutal. It was really messy, and I did not handle it. It was not the great final love. It was actually many other shades of things.

And could be that I'm being generous. And again, just trying to shoehorn this into something self-helpy. But yeah, I agree. It poses so many ethical questions about what belongs to us. and like, fair fucks to her, because that is a certain type of writer, which I realize I am not, I cannot mind my own life, I cannot, I could not. I mean, she says, and this is in Gia's review, so this is from the book, she says that she, in a fit of kind of madness and whatever, I believe it swapped her opioids for sleeping pills and covered her body in, like, Narcan, like, patches, something like that. And, like, that's the wild details that people are drawing on are like, okay, this is not just like a really uncomfortable book. there's something in here that is like, should you have said this? Should you maybe have said this only to a priest? It feels like there is something, there's a quality to this that actually is quite unhinged. And I wonder how that got through or how her family would feel reading that. And I believe that what follows is like Randy about this and then there was some forgiveness. But still, I am not the kind of writer that could even, I couldn't admit to doing anything really that badly because I would feel like I'm going to get in trouble. Depending on your perspective on her, you can either think, what a brave,

courageous, unflinching writer, or you could be like, what the fuck, girl? What's all this? The cut is really building a reputation for itself as well as being the place to launch your career of saying wild things. Like, I'm thinking about the age gap piece that was actually more about like a money disparity piece where she said she'd go to the library looking for rich men at college. I'm thinking about, wasn't there the piece about a person who nearly poisoned their dog or something? Yeah, neglected their animals because they had a baby or something, unless it's just two different pieces.

They hated their cat. There might be a separate one because the cat hate one was a massive one. I think that's the one I'm thinking about, which is once this writer had a baby, they suddenly started not caring for their cat and finding it a source of frustration and resentment and then started not really feeding it and not really looking after it.

And the internet obviously gave that writer the biggest amount of backlash you can imagine, and Peter was called into it. It was a mess, a fucking mess. I do wonder, with their strategy for viral pieces, obviously we take the bait. I clicked on this piece so fucking hard and read and read and read every single word. But do you think the cut is kind of becoming a bit of a joke in terms of being, as Brandy Jensen said, known for this nonsense, introspective style of peace, which actually kind of washes away with some of the most immoral, you know, ethically dubious issues of our time.

It's an interesting question, because I think the thing the cut does do is it always has impeccable writers, so people who just have incredible penmanship, so you can't help but want to read what compulsively what they write. And I guess it is on the bleeding edge, often of like kind of legality, like, again, to go back to the sort of like attempted murder of it all, does nothing happen if you admit that in a book? Like, is there no repercussion for that? Maybe not. And it's just so interesting that it gets past publishers.

Like, was no one there sort of saying maybe you shouldn't say this? Although I do think that being said, when someone has a dying loved one, you do hear people saying, I did have moments where I thought I'm just going to put a pillow over their face and put them out of their misery. So I don't think that is necessarily that unheard of. I think as much as it does seem a bit ludicrous some of the stuff the cut publishes, I'm really grateful for it because it feels so much less sanitised and it does feel different and they're always so meaty. They're always really good long reeds which spark really great

conversation and yes, they're often quite navel-gazy, sometimes oddly unselfaware within the body of about 6,000 words. I don't know how someone has not thought, like they're looking at themselves and just seeing something completely different. But they do have one for it, but I like it. It's kind of like that kooky quirk. It's like the Gwyneth Paltrow was a, was a, was a, the, a library of essays it's like her persona i can't quite explain it there's something in that that i don't know how to conceptualize whatever it is i don't want it to stop it keeps us in business as well we could fully have a segment that is just like slicing up the cuts essay this week cutting up the cut no if that wasn't good cut so last week rylan clark sparked hundreds of offcom complaints

after he guest hosted this morning. He started off sharing a personal story about how migrant doctors saved his mum's life and saying that he really supports immigration before he then went on to criticise the UK's handling of illegal immigration. And I quote, here's the iPad, here's the NHS in reception of your hotel,

here's three meals a day, here's a games room in the hotel, have a lovely time and welcome. And he continued, how can it be that if I turn up at Heathrow Airport as a British citizen and I've left my passport in Spain. I've got to stand at that airport and won't be let in.

But if I arrive on a boat from Calais, I get taken to a four-star hotel. He then posted to Instagram, you can be pro-immigration and against illegal routes. You can support trans people and have the utmost respect for women. You can be heterosexual and still support gay rights. The list continues. Stop with this putting everyone in a box exercise and maybe have conversations instead of shouting on Twitter.

He then did unfortunately turn off the comments because there were loads of really insightful, very helpful, useful replies from people that work with asylum seekers and refugees, giving true insight into what actually happens when people do flee to the UK seeking refuge. But he's turned the comments off, so those are all gone now. And then earlier this week, Susanna Reid went on to defend him on Good Morning Britain, and she said, he was actually concerned, though, that we've got a sort of welcome to the UK, and we don't know who all of these people are. so as I said there's got loads of complaints lots of criticism and I guess the biggest issue is he's just sat on a morning TV show saying things which are false lies really spurious and everyone was just sat on the sofa kind of like nodding along to what he said and there was absolutely no pushback I wondered what you made of the clip when you saw it and what you've seen from the fallout I thankfully just haven't been online so I haven't seen I haven't seen I haven't seen any of it, apart from to prep for this. The thing that really stands out to me is just how pernicious and how destructive these morning debates can be. And Monroe Bergdorf in her new book writes about this almost provocative conflict style of discourse that has been birthed on these

breakfast channels, which is you might have, say, a brown person arguing for their right to exist in the UK versus somebody who is deeply racist. And those two things are seen as equal, somebody who believes that somebody should not exist in the UK and somebody who believes that they should be allowed to live and breathe in the UK and live there and pay their taxes. And that is just so reprehensible. I think the genre of discourse that is allowed to exist on these programmes is really gross. And I find it so reprehensible overall. I think this clip is so bad because it could have been a really interesting teaching moment. Ryland, who is a very beloved person, could have been talking to somebody who actually has the facts on a lot of the conspiracies and falsehoods

that he spread. But that's not happened. Susanna Reid is defending him and kind of normalising what he said, which is truly so backed in conspiracy, it's unreal. There's a really good piece in the big issue that takes each of his claims and debunks all of them. I won't go through all of them but I just wanted to point out one of them and we'll link it in the show notes if anyone who listens to this has conversations with people because obviously all of this rhetoric is just like burning up again horrendously it probably will come up so one of the ones I think really most egregious of what he said is when people crossing the channel get here it does seem welcome here's the iPad so in the big issue which debunks all of them

and speaks to experts about this they have confirmed the Home Office does not provide iPads or mobile phones to asylum seekers. It is a complete myth. Asylum seekers are entitled to free NHS care, but this is basic medical treatment. They cannot legally work and have no access to public funds. Those in full board hotels receive just $9.95 per week, which is nothing. If in self-catered accommodation, the allowance is $4918. And they're given three meals a day, but these meals, for most people, are really horrendous. the food is abominable, this expert says, and they say, I've worked with young people who have lost significant amounts of weight because they can't eat it. And if you're at college, trying to learn

English, you simply don't eat. The hotel doesn't hold meals back. I know everyone listening to this exists in the same kind of political field we do. But if you ever need to, you know, find a resource to have conversations like this, this is a good piece. So I will make sure it's linked in the notes. But yeah, sorry to go on a tangent. Beth, what did you think? No, not at all. I think that is exactly how you combat this. It is with facts, which is why it was so disheartening for him to say, well, let's have a conversation and not shout each other on Twitter and then shut down a conversation. It accused people of putting them in a box when in fact you climbed into the box and you shut the lid. I think that's the only way it's disheartening how few people will actually engage with the facts of it. And the way I think that the farra is able to further this narrative is by twisting the facts and saying things like they come here, they stay in a hotel, they get an iPad. They get money. They get NHS care without any of the context of, I mean, for a start, these are people seeking asylum. These are the very basic things that a person needs to live and live with dignity. Why would you, as a person who also has a human right to asylum want to begrudge people that? But when you learn the reality of it, it's like, wow, what meager offerings these people are getting. It's really dehumanizing. It was, it was just disappointing. I'm not a Royal and Megafam, but he was really comfortably sitting in that place of like, kind of national. He was great on off-menu. When he stayed in that lane, and I didn't know that he had these opinions, I thought, well, you know, solid, likable celebrity. Now I think it feels like the mask has

slipped. It feels like a complete abdication of duty for ITV to allow that to go unchallenged. I mean, least of all, to allow someone who clearly knows nothing, who is parroting far-right talking points, to have such a seat at the table. The whole thing is stirring up a lot of emotion people and it's infuriating. It just feels like screaming into a void and telling people again, your lives are hard. We kind of know why lives in general are hard. It is not these people. We've watched people try and burn people seeking asylum in their beds to see that and go, and you know what, I'm going to throw my two cents in and it's going to demonise them further. I think it is a sickness and I think it's a very UK sickness. I think we're very far progressed.

I think it just shows how much of this is kind of in the ether and then the atmosphere. And if you're not really paying attention and you're not that media literate, it can, you can quite easily believe that people are coming to this country, being put up in four-star hotels, whatever he said. And the fact that he was allowed to then say that on TV without being challenged is so interesting. I'm not a religious watcher of ITV news, but I do often see Ashley Louise James, who is great when she does her segments. I don't think I've ever seen her be unchallenged.

she often is coming in with facts she'll have really prepared she'll be ready to argue often on issues to do with immigration gender whatever it might be she's really on the money with it and she's almost always sort of like really composed trying to come back to someone who's giving her the kind of thing that Ryland says whereas when he goes on there and says something like that there's no one there to balance him and this is I think what's really difficult at this moment in time is we spoke about Graham Linehan right at the top I don't know how to tell this in but Basically, with everything that's going on with like the protests to do with Palestine and people being arrested and that being a massive issue, you then have Graham Linehan being arrested also on the ground, like similar grounds. And then you have Rylan saying stuff like this and there's kind of no pushback.

I don't know how to wrap that immediately. I guess what I'm trying to say is we've got to be really careful about policing what people say because we do not want to end up in a country where we're going where you cannot protest. But we do not also want to live in a place where people just can say whatever they want, unchecked. be broadcast to a nation who potentially already hold those views because so many of our sort of more popular papers just post the most awful anti-immigration rhetoric that is propagandist and works towards an agenda. And then you also have Kirstama putting up all his bloody England flags and basically saying what Nigel Farage is saying.

It's like the same thing. I guess this is all sort of swimming around in my head. being like, we're not getting this right at all because I think the Graham Linehan thing is going to really enrage people on the free speech thing. I think some people are going to be really cross that he got marched up by loads of police officers in the airport for tweets. People are going to think that ostensibly, you know, that's not enough to get arrested. I think we've lost our way. We're either kind of over-policing or completely reductive in what we allow to be said. And I think that then what happens is it doesn't work for either party, either side, because everything

seems to be outrageous and there's no there's no common sense in the way that we approach anything when it comes to public opinion and that is just really concerning and I think it goes back to something we talk about all the time is the attention economy it's clickbait and there needs to be more again like what you said retire about kind of having this balance idea and it's like balance only exists when someone is in opposition to actually quite like far right views they're suddenly like, oh, we need to have the balance there. And it's like, that isn't actually balance because the person that you're bringing on has got quite extreme damaging opinions. And I don't know how we kind of shift over to a place where perhaps

even on daytime TV, we do need producers, executives, people fact-checking what people are going to say. And, you know, I listen to independent podcasts by people where they'll say something and then the producer will pop in and say, actually, we've got that fact wrong. Or this might not necessarily be true. Or this might not necessarily be true. there's a message inserted in that. And the idea that just on this morning, you can say anything, and there's nothing, there's no one there, there's no one on that thing, fact-checking it.

And it's so easily fact-checked as well. It's just quite astonishing. It feels like free speech is going to be another tenant, but it's only free speech when it becomes somebody in the far right who's been policed on what they can say. Because, as you said, at the same time, marches around Palestine and protests around that are being very heavily policed and condemned.

detailed and contained. And we're in a period where speech around that is really, you know, legally contentious. And Sally Rooney, you know, writing a piece for the Irish Times around that she said herself, if I'm arrested in defence of Palestine action, so be it. That's the level we are at with a genocide, you know, in the Middle East. But also at the same time, the discussions we're having around free speech are boiling down to what you can and can't tweet. It's like the scale of it is all over the place. Thank you so much for listening this week. Before we go, just checking that you've listened to our latest Everything in

Conversation episode where we discuss the cost of protecting your peace on community and friendships. If you enjoy listening to us, then please do leave us a review and a rating on your podcast player app. Please also follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Everything is ContentPod. See you next week. Bye. Bye.