Everything Is Content - Emily In Sponcon Bad Dads Pluribus

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

We're back EICuties! We have so much to catch you up on re: Christmas TV binges. Also a meme has been travelling round TikTok about 365 buttons. Do you get it? Next-up, we dive into the sci-fi, genre-bending Apple TV series that everyone is obsessed with, Pluribus. And finally 2026 already has an internet villain in the shape of a dad who claims to struggle spending more than 10 minutes with his child. Thank you SO MUCH for your lovely messages and reviews. Please keep them coming as we love hearing from you <3 love O,R,B xxxxIn partnership with Cue Podcasts.-------The TraitorsStranger ThingsEmily in ParisWe Need To Talk About ‘The Traitors’ And Unconscious BiasWhy is it so perilous to be a person of colour on The Traitors? | Zoe Williams | The Guardian365 buttons: could the biggest meme of 2026 change your life? | Social media | The GuardianPluribus Is About Everything and Unlike Anything ElsePluribus review – the audacity of the Breaking Bad creator’s new TV show is incredibleVince Gilligan Would Prefer You Explain Pluribus to Him'Pluribus' Review: Season 1 Is A Frustrating, At Time Brilliant, SlogPluribus Finale, or The World’s Most Helpful Apocalypse“Am I just a monster?”: Dad admits, unprompted, that his “blood starts to boil” if he has to spend over 10 minutes with his kids Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth. I'm Ruchera and I'm Anoni. And this is Everything Is Content, the podcast that takes a magnifying glass to the week's best pop culture stories. Whether it's TikTok sagas, celebrity, we're across it all. We're the satisfying HBO, ah, before a Sex and the City episode. This week on the podcast, we're doing a bumper TV catch-up, a deep dive into a bizarre TikTok trend, pleuribus, and the viral story about our reluctant dad. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Everything is Content Pod and make sure you hit follow on your podcast player app

so you never miss an episode. So there has been so much good and bad TV over the holidays. I want to know who wants to kick it off with the series they've binged or are watching currently. Should we start with something which I think is fantastic, universally loved and we adore it on the podcast, which is The Traitors is back. I'm so happy.

happy. It's so good. And I feel like, you know what, I don't want to overshoot a claim, but this series is going so well so far in terms of entertainment value, good characters coming out. I'm really enjoying it. I think it's the best series yet. Oh. Yeah. It's been week one, but yeah. Yeah. So at time of recording, we've had three episodes so far. There will be more by the time this comes out. I've had three episodes so far, 22 contestants, four of of whom are already dead slash banished, I think. Some new traitors and a whole new twist in the game, which is a secret traitor,

which is a brand new thing for the traitors. It just means there is a traitor in there. We don't know the identity of and only they know and Claudia knows. I am still oming and a-a-ring about this, I'm still enjoying the show, but I'm trying to get my head around whether this impacts my enjoyment because it means that I can't, I don't know everything.

I can't be doing my favorite thing, which is being like, I love watching how they behave. when I know the pressures they're under, like the pressure to lie or the pressure to not lie, the pressure to appear really innocent. And now I'm like, but which is it? I don't know. I can't get my head around it.

I think it's really clever because like with any show format, every contestant now is so wise to it. So it's like the Love Islanders going on and they're actually going on for the cash. Since I can't remember the name of the woman that pretend to be Welsh, but since her, people have been going in with like real game plans. Every single person sat down and was like, I want to be a traitor. They didn't used to. People used to be a bit more coy. Everyone's going on wanting to be a traitor.

You have the woman whose name escaped me that got rid of Hugo who's hiding that she's a barrister. So the layers of this game or like the way it works have changed so much because all of the contestants are so in on it. So I think there being this new layer with the secret traitor makes it more complicated for a very wise group of contestants. And I think it helps us because I like feeling like I'm playing. I don't know. We still don't know if we're actually going to find out who the secret traitor is. So the cliffhanger on the last episode that we've all watched was that they will meet them. But who knows, you know, obviously they can pull every trick out of the book in this game.

We have no idea what's going to come. But by the time this episode comes out, in theory, we should have met them, which is crazy. But they might show them and not show us. Oh, you're so right. They're so going to do that. Aren't they for God's sake? What people are saying that is basically, it's a bit of elimination. So eventually we should know down to it.

at least like five to ten who it is because they can't vote for themselves. They keep fighting for Maz, which I've noticed. I'm like, is it doesn't matter, but I'm just like, is it someone would we have seen an interaction when this person doesn't like Mads? Like it really has gotten in my head and you're right. The game has to evolve as more people watch it because first series, people are like, oh, being a traitor sounds hard. I just want to win and be faithful. And now people realize, well, I'm going to get murdered. I'm way more likely to get to the final if I am a traitor. People are like, give me the money. So it is smart, but it just offends my like, God where I want to know everything.

Like I remember having conversations where people like they should do a show two different versions where you can decide whether you want to know who the traits are or not. And I thought that sounded fun, probably like impossible logistically. But this just removes my power and I don't like it. The thing I will say, I was thinking about the group of traitors not knowing that information and how it completely limited their power, if you were playing the game, how that would feel would completely ruin any fun from it. it would just completely change the nature of what the point of being a traitor was, I think.

So I could really feel their pain when they found out about the secret traitor thing. I do think not knowing something as a watcher for me has improved it because it feels like there's more jump scares coming. And it kind of feels like, I don't know, this game that we've watched for maybe like four seasons now. There's like new things constantly coming up. I quite like that. I just because also the problem with knowing is it's really easy then to infer how people should have guessed. was when you don't know, I actually am really struggling to figure out who the secret traitor might be, which I find really fun. I would be, I'd hate to be a traitor, but it'd be such bad faithful because I would go off all of the wrong cues and then I would just make such a tit.

But also what everyone thinks, and I think this is right, I think they'll reveal the secret traitor to the two traitors and either we find out or we don't. And then they'll bring in another secret traitor in the play. I think that's so smart. A lot of people online were like, what if the red cloak of the secret traitor comes off and it's just Alan Carr? Oh my God. Stog it. The other conspiracy theory that everyone's obsessed with, what do you guys make of this, is that everyone's in in a pair.

So obviously initially there was Ross and Nettie who knew each other beforehand. And Ross has said in one of the interviews, although I don't know if I made this up because I said this to my friend, she's like, I don't remember that. He said, I've got a secret. I'm so glad Nettie's gone

because I do have a secret. Do you remember him saying that? No, I don't remember that at all. I don't remember this. I'd add a lot of bailies, though. So maybe I did make this up. Maybe I did make that. I was texting Poppy and she was like,

So Straten, I was like, but Ross did say this and she was like, I don't remember that. So I could have made that. But anyways, because she's, my friend Poppy is convinced that Ross and Ellie are a couple. I think that's way too obvious because they're way too coupley. Oh, I've seen digging on this and I've seen some people look at their social media and find different angles of a hotel and be like, it's the same hotel. Oh, guys. I actually think there's something to this.

I think the theory is correct. I think everyone is connected whether they know it or will reveal it or not. I think everyone has some, as in whether they knew that they were going to be connected to someone or not. I think that tree, the tree. If that happens, I will actually fall to the ground and give all of my money to BBC. Because what is, what is that casting level? Like, that is crazy. That is too much.

I don't know. If we're now getting to that galaxy brain level of playing, what will the next year be? What will the year after be? I don't, where will it go from there? But the other reason I think is someone said, imagine, I can't remember who said they were like, imagine one of us is a secret detective. and Amanda's in the room at the time. And at the time it was really funny.

But then I would look back and I'm like, actually, is that someone that knows Amanda that's trying to say something? Because it was quite a random thing to say. Because you know when they were talking about Hugo? And they were like, I would definitely vote out of barrister. I was like, God, I'd be so bad at this game because that wouldn't even, I'd be going purely off their vibes in the castle rather than like what they did for a job. So another big conversation about the traitors, which is not fun,

is this continued discourse about unconscious bias and the fact that in, I think, all four seasons, and actually including the celebrity season, the contestants that are suspected very early on murdered and banished are often non-white contestants. And there's been a couple of articles about this series particularly. In The Guardian, there was an article called, Why is it so perilous to be a person of colour on the traitors? And Vogue wrote an article called, We Need to Talk about the Traitors and Unconscious bias. Because we've seen it in this series again, with Netty and Judy being the first contestants to be, is it murdered and banished in that order, came up also with the celebrity traitors,

with Nico and Tamika, I think, were the first out. We can see the pattern again. We've discussed this in the past, but it does seem that the BBC either isn't aware, not doing anything, or I don't know, it just doesn't seem to have altered at all, and it's such a dark spot on what is otherwise a really, really fun show. It's really hard when you put the power into people's hands, because I'm not sure what they can do.

And the thing that's really grating and it kills me every fucking time, every time I watch this series, apart from the intensity and the emotional, I would say, manipulation of the last series, which got way too far for me, this is the thing that ruins it. And this is the thing that, like, actually makes me so frustrated and so upset every time I watch it.

Because I just know it's going to happen. And I can just see everyone turning on specific people for no reason. And there was a case last series where this one guy just was so dogged about this Asian man and saying that he just seemed to be a liar, he seemed to be this, and it really wore me down actually. I don't know what they can do about it, but I have to say it is such a big explosive issue in this show. And I don't know, I don't know, I don't know how it can keep going on because it's so, it just wears me down so much, honestly. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because some people were saying, like, can you not train the contestants prior to them

coming on and give them kind of training and understanding where these ideas around people might be from like you would have, I suppose, in certain workplace things, they might do like certain training. But this just shows how obviously it is deeply unconscious to the point where maybe even the BBC producers aren't even recognising when this might crop up. But it is so hard to watch it and not see a pattern because it does happen every time in that.

I have to say that was after the first banishment and murder, that was my whole timeline, was the main conversation. I think there's also a conversation hand in hand to be had about like the ageism and the abelism, which. You can also see, and it's, it is such a shame when you see, like, older contestants, they go quite early on. And it's when that, when that doesn't happen in the reverse, when you see people being very supportive in the challenges that are really physically draining of being like, okay,

taking into account that someone's age might impact how fast they can run, but also might be great for their wisdom. And that is the really, that's the best part of this show is putting this odd group together. And even though there are traitors, even though it's completely dastly, having people form these friendships. and it is just, I think that is probably the only thing that can be done, but it's just such a massive shame to see people be like, that you're just suspicious to me.

And it's almost easy, I think it's probably easy on there to be like, no, no, there's stuff you don't see, but actually like all of us do have unconscious bias. But yeah, it is such a shame because it's such a good show. Unless you're Fiona, who's like really leaning into it and making everyone think she keeps going on about having, and thinks she's just like some doty old woman. Oh, I love that so much.

I think the problem, and you're completely right, is the amazing premise, but it's also the problem of the show, if you take a microcosm of society and let it operate and just kind of raise the stakes of it, how does it go down? It's just really reflecting back how our actual world works. And for good or bad, a lot of that could be quite dark. On the other side of the spectrum, shall we talk about a little show on Netflix? I think you've definitely binged this, right?

As long as you're talking about Emily and Paris and not stranger things, then yes. I'd kind of miss that the new Emily and Paris had come out and then I got a bit sick in my sick bed and I thought I'd start watching it and I only watched the first half when I mess with you both being like,

I think this is the best season ever. But then actually I'll stay with it. So basically for the first half, Emily is in Rome and she's dating Maritori. What's his first name? Maruti. Dingo?

I've not seen it. Dingo. You've not watched it? Oh my God. I don't know. I was thinking. like dingo Maradonna. So she's dating this guy from Rome

whose family own a beautiful fashion house that's very exclusive, but you can only buy it in Rome and it's all cashmint and she's trying to get her agency to be able to front them. That's the premise at the beginning. So she's in Rome. I think the fashion is amazing. It's all great.

Mindy is back in Paris and might or might not end up in a flirtation with one of Emily's exes. The series carries on. It flits routine Rome, Venice and Paris. and I do think it's some of the best writing, some of the best costume, and then as the series went on,

I could not believe, and I haven't looked into it, but I'm sure it must be product placement with Mini Driver's character, who's amazing in this. The product placement, we've moved on from advertising and brand deals to like you're actually,

we don't need Instagram anymore because it's literally like an Instagram ad, inserted as a jokey Instagram ad, but it's an actual ad within the body of the episode. Do you know what I'm talking about, Richerra? Yes, but also, okay, finish because I have so many thoughts and we're going to tell you TLDR I hated this series. No, I don't. I don't really have. I want to hear what you think then we'll fight.

Okay, let's fight. So I could not stomach this series and everyone knows. Everyone knows I have died for Emily and Paris in the past. It's not that I'm too good for this show. I am absolutely not. I love this show. It just the whole thing is an advert. It's not even hiding it. It's all in plain insights. So every single episode they work with a brand. All of those brands have gone from being fictional brands to now real brands that operate in the UK, Paris, the US. They are just all sponsored episodes essentially. And it's gone from just being like there are these emotional arcs that sometimes translate to Emily's work and marketing deals that she has to every single emotional moment she has in her personal life becomes the source of an advert in the episode. And it first started

with her and Mindy having, you know, some kind of tense discussion and then coming together and reaffirming that they were best friends, cut to an advert of her directing an advert of two friends with the Eiffel Tower. And it kept happening after every episode. And I was like, God forbid that she has an emotional moment in her life that does not translate to a fucking advert. I actually can't deal with this. I just, I felt so much of that ad fatigue substack that we spoke about last year just like vomiting at me from this series and I just I couldn't deal with it also skip ahead if you don't want to hear how it ends but the ending she makes a choice about her relationship with moritori and I just completely disagreed with her she essentially puts work first

and I know that's a 2025 you know women should pick themselves solution but I just thought you pick work every single time in your life. You've now picked it over love. I just, I don't know. I don't know who you are. Like, what's the point? Can I just say, I just muted you. Not because I even love this show

and I don't want to do it, but I was like, you know what? You said, you were like, if you don't want to know, I went, do you know what? I actually don't know because I've not seen this series. So I thought I'd meet you.

And just, whatever you were saying, very impassioned, actually cannot wait to watch it and be potentially horrified and offended as you were. I really need to watch this now. I want to know if it's worse product placement than what was. the show, nobody wants this, because that felt very

egregious in the way it kept being shot like an ad. This one just feels like it's very in your face. They're not even trying to, but I guess it makes sense. This is an ad agency. So, yes, but wait, mute again because I want to fight Retire on her reasoning. One, two, three, gone. Because basically, she doesn't pick work. What she picks is

she doesn't want to live in a really rural part of Italy over Paris, which is what I think she chose, which I understand. Because she wouldn't be able to do, I think she is picking work, but I think more than that, she's picking Paris because Paris feels like home rather than Solitano or whatever has, I don't know if it's a real place in Italy. Do you agree or disagree?

I'm going to say real. Please don't come for us. Okay. You can come back now, Bear. Oh, now you're muted. So I'm back now. So I was meeting everything left front and centre. I have been saving this for basically the January blues, which I know are going to really

hit. You know, January just ends up being like six weeks long. I think I'm going to need this maybe the last 10 days. So I'm going to watch this. But do you know what's had me hooked is a series on TikTok where this man puts a beret on? I'll find it for the show notes. I think it's called like Man with the Beret.

And he basically just makes videos where he does the chronology of their show and proves like none of it makes sense chronologically. It's all just pulled out of their ass. Like he goes into such. And he does it with love. He obviously loves the show. He's like the chronology is not there.

They make stuff up. He kind of has these hard and soft dates. So the hard dates being like sometimes they will say a date. Mostly it's just vibes. They will have things. like Madeline's pregnancy as a kind of nine-month arc. He goes and researches like yacht dates because apparently Gabrielle's on a yacht or a boat this season. He looks at like the currents.

He looks at Fashion Week. He looks at sports. And it's so interesting in a way that a show can kind of feel real. But the chronology of it is complete nonsense. It's just vibes, which they're like 20 minutes long. I watched one. I was like, my attention span is absolutely fine as long as it's this kind of nonsense. But it is.

It's just vibes. This is why I want to sell it to you. and this is why I think it's the best season. So basically, because I was a bit ill, I wasn't actually catching on to how egregious the advertising was. But then once you got on board with it, you're like, actually, it's kind of fine because at least it does make sense within the body of the show,

because like you said, they're an ad agency. But the funny thing is, so they introduced Minnie Driver, who's a great addition to the show. Sylvie is off on all of her sex capades. There's so many wheels I've seen about everyone imitating Sylvie's amazing walk that she does. But also there's really great. I think the relationship between Emily and Mindy,

there's something different about the writing. It's really like, a believable friendship, the way their friendship is. And some of the writing on sex, I think, is really good. It's much more tongue and cheek and it feels a bit more grown up. And as much as it's full of absolute bullshit, it's so pretty to look at, which as you know my number one thing. I just need sparkly, nice outfits and I'm there. But there is something about it, which I felt weirdly at the same time as it being as trashy as ever, as nonsensical as ever, and so much advertising that it actually is a Black Mirror episode. I also think something about

it was some of the best writing. So I want you to watch it and come back and see if I'm right or if I have just got the flu. You have to, you have to judge and you have to brand one of us a winner and a loser and we'll take it on the chin. Capitalism or socialism. Who will be the winner? Hey, socialism with the fashion, though, that's what I'm going to say. I'm pretty sure that neither of you have watched this, but I feel like we have to cover

this. I am right up to halfway of the finale of Stranger Things. And I'm going to, you know, stick myself out there. I'm going to ignore the haters. there are any, this series has been so good. This has been excellent. There's been times where I've been crying. There's been times where I felt like my heart was in my throat and I was going to be sick. It's just been so emotional, so good for fans of the show. I'm not even a huge fan. I've kind of dipped in and out of loving this. But to wrap up this story, I feel like they've done such a

fucking good job. So can I ask, have you always been watching Stranger Things? Because this is something I don't think I was aware of. So because of the huge gaps in time, I have been watching it, but I'm never the first person to watch it when it drops. I always kind of just tune back in when I have the time. And this is going to sound bad, but a slot in my TV roster. And Emily and Paris was done. Everything was done. I had a wide open flapping gap and I watched Stranger Things.

It's so interesting that you liked it so much because I have, I think maybe the more devoted a fan you are and having, you know, people have been waiting for 10 years for this series to wrap up. maybe the more devotes you are, the less like you are to be as praising of the film. That's a horrible way to put that. Basically, the more you like it, the less you like this finale is what I've been seeing online. Like the Duffer Brothers are getting absolutely handed to the point where fans are spreading a rumor that this isn't the finale because, and there's a secret finale coming or a secret next series because they can't accept this was the finale. So I'm really interested that you are such a fan because I do trust your taste on All Things TV. I haven't finished this last episode. So I've got, it's two hours long. It's so long. It's a film. So I'm literally exactly halfway through and what I've seen is amazing. I wonder if the final half is going to be terrible. I will update you next week. If I come back, tail between my legs, you have to just ignore everything I said. See, I'm the opposite to you, Beth. I've seen people being really positive to the point where it's making me think, fuck, do I have to watch Stranger Things? I've only just done Game of Thrones and what else. I've also restarted watching industry. And then I remember that I literally rewatch the whole.

whole of industry this time last year. I got to season two and I was like, wait, I've just done this. So maybe I'll watch Stranger Things in that, in place of that. It's a big old task. Each episode is an hour long. Don't ask me, I've got a lot of free time at the moment. I'm watching it. How many series are there? This is five, the fifth one. Yeah, I do. I know that's a, that's a big gap of time because like it was literally 20, no, I'm going to say 2016, because I feel like Millie Bobby Brown is like 21, 22 now. I mean, them coming back to the set as full adults must be like fucking wrap this up. I did see all the pictures of them crying behind the scenes.

They seem fairly happy with it. I saw Noah Schnap is, I think that's how you pronounce the name, is launching a Stranger Things rewatch podcast or something. The horse is not even dead and he's flogging it. I'm just seeing a lot of the Duffer brothers get absolutely rinsed. And that does expose how different the timelines are. I think I engage with one, Strange Things Hate Tweet and now that's my whole timeline.

Whereas actually people are loving this. And I think I need to remember how big the internet is. and form my own opinion. Okay. So it's like the old saying goes, New Year, New Year, New Year, 365 buttons. Okay, that is made up. But the buttons are real, at least for one TikTok user. Let me explain. There was a video on TikTok last week about someone doing a 2026 rebrand,

e.g. just improving being her best off in the new year. And in the comments under this video, a user called Tomorrow wrote, quote, more stuff and I'm scared of time so I want to be more conscious of it. And this comment was seen and liked by a lot of people, many of whom wanted more information about these buttons and their purpose. So someone replied to Tamara saying, what is 365 buttons? To which tomorrow replied simply one for every day. And they asked her again. They said, yes, but what do you mean? To where? And she said, quote, just to have, to see her quick days pass and to remind myself that time passes and I just

have fun and do a lot of stuff. And people were still a bit confused by this. They asked her, okay, but what are you actually doing with them? Are they in a jar? Are you wearing them? What? And she said, and this is a line, I will be screenshoting and staring at and adding to my 2026 mood board. She said, quote, hey, so it actually only has to make sense for me to do it and I don't feel like explaining it to anyone else. And this exchange has already made her a bit of a meme queen, the internet. She is not over explaining. She's not looking for your approval. She's just there with her 365 buttons, one for every day. There are threads about her on X, videos calling her an icon, and plenty of people saying that they are joining her and getting 365 buttons for this

new year, even though they don't know what she's doing with them. And I sent this to you both. Anoni, I think you got it immediately, Ruchera, I'm not entirely sure, judging from facial expressions. So let me ask you, Anoni, to help us all understand, what do the 365 buttons mean to you and what are you taking from this and from tomorrow? So it made too much sense to me to the point where I'm like, I've obviously inferred what she's doing. But I assume she's got 365 buttons and each day she's going to like move one aside. So she has like a visual cue of how the days are passing,

which I really like, I actually do loads of things like this. I have notes on my phone where I'll be like, I went on a right, I do a little tick just so I can see visually like what's passed. And I guess it's almost like having a time. What are those little, the sand timer things? That's how I envisioned it. So I read it before we did it watch the video rather and I was like makes complete sense to me. It could be marbles, could be buttons, could be whatever.

Then I read the reaction. I was like, oh, okay, maybe I'm wrong. But I think me and this girl view the world very similarly. I don't know what kind of is it is, but I definitely have it. That is crazy. That is crazy what you've said. I feel like something in my mind has just shifted and now I have a before and an after of what you just said. I can't believe it.

That makes sense. That makes total sense. When I first saw this and when you read it again, I just. could not understand what she was talking about. I was imagining like big red buttons and she was imagining having a big red button for each day and almost like something to do with that. And I just, I couldn't, I couldn't, pressing them. Couldn't figure out. Yes. I didn't, I forgot that you have like sewing buttons. So that's where I was at. You were in the tech shop, not the habitashry with me and Nonone. Yeah, I think it's basically like, I'm sure you're right. And everyone's kind of like,

just use your imagination. She's obviously using them as a tangible symbol. But like, people are asking her for tutorials. People are desperate to find out. And like it's true that she's not said. Like she could be moving them from one judge to another. She could be sewing them on something. She could be carrying one in her pocket. That's what I would do to be like, this is the feel of this day. She could be eating them. We just don't know. And I hope that she never explains. I do really like the idea of a tangible way to visualize time passing and be like, this is one unique day of only 365. There's enough, but there are not limitless. I do, I wish I had that many buttons lying around. I don't like the idea. I feel like a shop will see this and start marketing like here's your 3065 buttons and massively overpricing

them like I saw over Christmas some supermarket was selling 12 grapes in plastic and packaging well overpriced for that 12 grape challenge where you sit under the table and eat 12 grapes and I was like that shit annoys me it's not organic I just kind of want tomorrow to be left alone with her buttons I agree also but buttons you can buy secondhand from loads I used to love going to like old fashion button shops my mum where you can buy antique buttons that often very cheap but also is she not just being like is this not what we've done throughout time cave people were sort of drawing what are those things called one two three three tallies with the five tally tally charles that's one and doing that kind of thing but also talking about brand selling this I'm seeing this so I on my

phone keep it I keep the day and I just tick if I've exercised I find it good for my mental health I'll be like oh I feel depressed and then I'll have like five Xs in a row and I'm like oh go for a run and then I saw that an influencer who I do know actually had brought out this like a chart thing with stickers that you is the same thing essentially but you just can put it on your fridge or whatever and I was like God you really could monetize anything but I just

for me you don't always need a physical thing so we don't need to bring out Tamara's buttons but I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of months she does have a brand called Tamara's buttons and you can buy them but what she needs what she really needs is a collaboration with Charlie XX and then

they could do a black green button set and then it would be the full cycle complete of capitalism oh my good yes 365 party button girl. Oh my god. You are a genius. Hi me, hire me. Yeah, just to leave you all again with what I think is already quote of the year, at least

of the month, from tomorrow. Hey, so it actually only has to make sense for me to do it and I don't feel like explaining it to anyone else. And may we all live by that in 2026. Okay, let's finally talk about the series we've all been breadcrumming you for the last month. It is time to talk about pluribus. anyone who hasn't watched this, I would say skip ahead 20, 25 minutes to be safe, and I think you'll be golden. Beep.

Okay. So Plouribus is a genre bending. End of the world's story on Apple TV with rave reviews. Google hilariously, I thought this was so funny, describes it as the most miserable person on earth must save the world from happiness. But to go a step further, I will say we have romance writer Carol Sterker, who is one of 13 humans left. after an alien species infects every other human on earth. Once are infected, you become part of their hive mind, and you seem to constantly smile and exude this inner piece,

and everyone seems to speak as one unit. They say, we think, and we would. You also share all of your prior human experiences, your memories, and your knowledge. And apart from their takeover, this alien species is peaceful, but they are set on assimilating every last human, which is a crucial detail.

The series tragically starts with Carol's partner Helen dying because of this takeover. For anyone who doesn't know, the series has been created by Vince Gillingen, who famously created Breaking Bad and The X-Files, and the main character is played by Ray Seahorn, who plays Carol, who is this really unlikable, miserable kind of main character who is tasked with saving humanity. She is incredible. And the actor just won a best actress award at the Critics' Choice Award. There is so much to say about the series. The more I've read on it, the more I feel like I've only had maybe one or two takes, everyone seems to be saying it's about this, it's about that. Some people have said it's about what utopia

looks like, what side you'd rather be on the aliens or the humans. People can't agree on it, which I think is amazing. But first things first, I'm going to ask you, what was your review of the show and which side would you rather be on the humans or Carol Sturker's? I mean humans, but I would probably not be trying to save you. I think I'd follow the similar pattern that she does, which is like despair, depression, but I wouldn't go to summit meeting. I would be like, fine. I would immediately be on holiday forever. I would be, I wouldn't be as excessive as the guy. I think his name is Mr. Diabeti, but I will double track that, who is kind of, I think he's sleeping with the hive mind. I wouldn't do that, but I reckon I probably

would just be like chilling out, doing my hobbies. I'll be drunk. That is why I would be. Yeah, it's funny because I thought about this as well, and I'm like, oh my God, I think first of all, I would steal so much stuff because I would be like, this is so. exciting you can just have free clothes like I'd go into Dior and just put on all the outfits but then on the other hand I don't know if I would deal with it as well I think I've got too much of a paranoid mind where I would think everyone is actually playing a trick on me it's like the Truman show and they it's all some kind of awful like I'd be really self-absorbed about it I wouldn't be trying to help them I'd be like oh my god everyone's pretending they're all thinking the same thing but also what because the one thing I can't get my head around and I understand that this is how the virus works but if you knew everyone's past history everyone would be severely depressed and traumatized rather than really happy. And I understand that I had to Google, I was like, why are they happy? And it's like, obviously, the function of the way this virus works is it makes you see everyone's memories just as some neutral thing that has happened. But imagine me able to see like your parents kind of like inner workings of their thought.

Like that I get really stuck on that as like a functioning point. But I also think it is interesting that Carol never really asked that many questions of them. she kind of is just existing. I don't know. I think the show is, I'm really bad at ratings out of 10, but I think it's absolutely excellent. Did you give your rating of what you thought,

but no, I didn't give my rating. I do, I think either I was the first or second person on this podcast to mention this show and I was such a fan of it and I remained such a fan of it. I think ever so slightly

my enjoyment of the show waned as it went on, but I'm certain that is just personal preference, not for the reasons that a lot of other people are getting for not. liking the show, which is that it's slow, that it's poorly paste or that it's kind of a bit dull and repetitive. I don't agree with that. I think I just have certain tastes that weren't

totally met, but I'm hooked on this show and I will be watching series too. But yeah, it's so its own entity. It was so unlike anything else I've watched. What about what did you think, Richard? Are you as big a fan you were at the beginning or less so? Yeah, so I feel like each episode almost feels like I react differently to it. I definitely, by the end came back on board and loved it so much. But there were some kind of middle episodes where I just felt like after I watched them, I didn't rush back to watch it. And I don't really know why. I wish I had an answer for that. I think probably it really reminds me how I felt about with severance. And it's probably what we were talking about right at the beginning when you definitely

were the first person to bring this up because we were talking about how sci-fi shows can make people feel really uncomfortable. And I think that kind of discomfort sometimes doesn't make me rush back to watch it. But then I just, I love so much about the character of Carol and I loved where the story went. And I loved the kind of pivot, especially after she was put in isolation by this hive mind, because this is a crucial aspect. This hive mind is so sensitive that when Carol has these emotional outbursts and my God, she definitely has rage on her, she has a temper. They shake physically and some of them die because they shake so aggressively. They are so sensitive to her emotional outbursts, they can't handle it. And she does that one too many times for them. So they put her in

isolation for 40 days and 40 nights until she begs for them to come back. And just, I think, those kind of pivots of the show are so unpredictable. They're so interesting. And then her developing a relationship with her companion, Zosha, I just, I feel like the writing on it is so spectacular. I just can never predict where it's going to go. Yeah, that's interesting. I do agree. My interest waned And I couldn't work out what it was because I actually completely disagree with all the stuff about the pacing. Like I loved, was it called The Gap,

the episode where nothing really happened? I personally love stuff like that where you were in the stillness. But I also did find myself by the time I got around, I had to watch the last episode before we did this record. And I wasn't like, oh my God,

I need to watch the last episode. I kept being like, I've got to watch the last episode. And I don't know what that was. Can you pinpoint what it was like not meeting your taste, Beth? I'm interested to know what it is that, or if you don't know what it is. I wonder whether it was

the relationship with Carol because I really, I think she's a spectacular character. She is all of those things which you do rarely see in a lead, which is like middle-aged woman, lesbian, really unlikable at times, horrible temper, horrible mood on her. I really like that, but I think possibly I didn't feel as emotionally attached as a lot of fans are really emotionally attached to her, standing her and social, which I hopefully would get on to because I don't even know how that's possible because that is a hive mind. Anyway, I think it was possibly that and I read a review by Eric Kane for, I think it was Variety. Oh, no, Forbes, where he said that he was really intellectually invested in the show, but not

emotionally. And actually, the reviews as a whole was not super favourable. He's of the opinion that some of it doesn't make sense. It'd be better, you know, it would all fit in a film a lot more neatly than it is in a TV series. He doesn't know where this is going to go. And I think just that point, I agree with. Emotionally, I'm not as invested. As an intellectual experiment, I am. And as kind of my relationship with the earth and with culture and with humanity,

I feel really invested. And really that's the parts that really give me the willies is where you see like culture being lost. And this kind of suicidal cult of people that, you know, humanity will die out because they have to eat people and there's not enough food. They won't pick an apple and it's all very frustrating. That strikes me in the abstracts a lot more than Carol's grief does and then Carol's kind of difficulties. as much as I do like her and I do want her to win and be safe and figure this out, maybe it's just me and Carol not getting on. I think that exactly what you said,

the international versus the emotional connection is it for me maybe as well because I am finding it fascinating and I love kind of, I love anything dystopian. I love reimagining real world structures in an abstract way that makes you then reconsider it because there's so many ways this can be applied. There are so many Reddit threads about what the hive mind represent, whether it's like AI or whether it's so there's a few there's like somebody has said that the hive mind and Carol is a parable for abusive relationships and this the voice of gaslighting and making you shut down

your emotions people have said it's about climate change people have said it's digital era loneliness because Carol's the only one up against everyone else she speaks to people through her smartphone she talks to people almost like a YouTuber through her screen she's never really communicating with people apart from this one-on-one person or through tech. And then somebody else said for Vulture is about grief and depression, aka the world feeling so separate to you when you're going through depressive episodes and this like isolated feeling of you against the world. But also because it is fundamentally, it's that thing,

that philosophical question that I remember always used to get asked when we're like early 20s, which was like, would you rather live in the real world with all of its complications and agony and pain? Or would you rather get into like a, simulation where you're always happy. That is fundamentally what this is asking, isn't it? And it is interesting. And there are so many ways for it to be applied.

And I do find that interesting, but I think I agree with you, Beth. And let's get onto the Zosia thing, because in the last episode, we're hoping you've watched it now. There's a bit where she can't get over the fact that Zosia says the hive mind love Minousos as much as they love her. And I was like, girl, have you not been paying attention?

Like she really frustrates me sometimes, I have to say. And I find that whole, Zosia then becomes to be actually in a good way it makes Zosia a darker character because you can see how she's manipulating her and especially the conversation around when she's not necessarily completely forthright about how they could get Carol's stem cells and stuff.

It does add a different dimension to Zosia but it is incredibly frustrating because you see Carol is a very clever, headstrong, infuriating character and then love, it'll get you all. Well, love and loneliness, isn't it? Because she's really able to, They choose Zosha because they pluck her out of,

I think she's kind of working somewhere for the, but it looks quite dangerous work. They pluck her out because she looks like the gender-bent version of the main character from Carol's stories. Like the seed is in manipulation, how they might say, well, we love you, but it's like they have chosen someone, not just to make her feel comfortable,

but to drop her trust and eventually to kind of kind of kind of attraction. And it's that, like it is really manipulative. and it is she asked for her to come back because she's so lonely to the point that she doesn't flinch when a firework whizzes past her ear like life has become utterly meaningless and so I do find when people are shipping the two of them

on the internet like really difficult to understand because I'm like but that is not, that looks like a single woman but it's everyone on earth it might as well be the pizza guy it might as well be the UPS surgeon it could be any one of them but then I wonder if it's as an audience it's so easy to get to forget

in the way that Carol's obviously forgetting, like this is not one woman, especially as like they're having inside jokes and they're kind of being a bit more flirtatious and they're literally having sex. But it's like that's not a romance. That is, that's an army, not a person. It's like the character that you mentioned at the beginning, Mr. DiBate, where there's this one scene where he's in this casino and it's almost like a scene plucked out from James Bond's Casino Royale where it becomes like a shootout and then he has girls all around him. But you realize it's all optics because every single person there is part of the hive mind apart from him, you know, fulfilling his fantasy of being this, I don't know, Lothario spy or whatever. And it's so depressing.

It's so beyond depressing. And I'm not going to lie to you when I saw Zosha and Carol, you know, cooking together kind of living the domestic lifestyle, even though it's just optics, even though it's the exact same thing, I've really wanted to kind of buy into it. And I think it is that feeling of if something looks like the way you want it to versus lacks all of the meaning behind it sometimes you just want to buy into it and sometimes you don't want to kind of open your eyes and I really was feeling that with her

and my partner was watching it and he was like you know she's getting manipulated left right and centre and I was like no no maybe maybe they've fallen in love but I mean we've spoken so many times that people that fall in love with AI chatbots who are essentially the hive mind So of course if that AHA chat bot was a walking talking physical human,

I guess it must be really easy. It's just me as a viewer thinking I'm so wise. Meanwhile getting scammed and falling for conspiracy theories, left, right and centre. Obviously probably would be in love with ocean myself. But it is, I do think when you think about it in the context of kind of the digital world and us, it's like every day we log on to our social media apps

and we present this like fake reality whilst we're sat in our sweatpants, eating crisps covered in chocolate. I was going to say poo, but when do we have the covered of poo? I'm not. I've never covered in poo ever. I hope I'm not. But I do, I did find like a massive lump on the back of chocolate on the back of my dressing and I was like, oh, that needs to go in the wash.

Anyway, so that we do live these double lives where it is like we are all part of the hive mind, which is like Instagram versus reality. And more and more we are spending actually like a bigger percentage of our time living in our fake digital worlds than we are in the real. life. And I think when you apply that to the hive mind, it is really creepy because we are ultimately kind of lonely real people in our own worlds than logging onto this hive mind of the internet. So I do think, I mean, have they ever, has Vince Gilligan actually said any specific like analogy for what the show represents or he's letting everyone run wild with the theory?

Yeah, he's letting everyone run wild, didn't it? Because he dreamt this idea up pre-COVID and pre, like, well before pre-chatch GPT. And he's like, I think he said that he was writing it during COVID. He was like, fuck, everyone's going to not want to watch this because they think it's about COVID. Then the AI boom happened. He's like, well, fuck, everyone's just going to read it like that. I actually hadn't even considered Richarda reading it through the ways that you kind of listed there, the grief, the abuse, the, I was looking at this as something sociopolitical, eco-fascism. AI, to me, is the most satisfying reading. I mean, maybe Richard, you've got more insight into watch what Vince Gilligan has said. I've not read that

many interviews, but I just know that he was like, this was not about AI. but you can read it like that. No, no, no, not at all. I agree with you. I only read one interview with him in Vulture, and he just seems to be loving people's takes on it. And he almost basically said, it's not that deep in as many words,

because he said that hearing so many of the takes, they weren't intent, or like, not all of them were intentional, but he's loving, you know, the religious aspects kind of put onto this. So with Manusos, for example, his name is a religious name. I believe he said in the interview,

it means hand of God. So people are reading him to be a religious figure, especially when he was walking through the desert and had wounds on his back. It very much felt like a parable in the Bible, for example. And he just was like, oh, yeah, no, that wasn't intentional. I can see how that is read, but that wasn't what we were doing. I just met this guy on holiday with the same name who made really good pottery. And I just thought that's a great name for a character. So I think he's just watching and laughing and somehow just created this like mad thing.

and maybe we're the ones just going crazy over it? Well, I guess this is like a timeless thing of, like the fact that it can be applied in so many ways show that it's kind of always permeated through what it means to be human, which is like we all live in our own individual consciousness. And even like the Truman Show, you can never be totally sure that you aren't the only one that's actually living in that existence.

So it's such a clever premise and it taps into so many different philosophical questions around it. I mean, I really think what's interesting is as we get further into this kind of like AI revolution is that more and more people would pick the hive mind and I don't think you could have said that like 15, 20 years ago. But I think more and more as people say, material, economic, political circumstances worsen and the idea of living in a simulation becomes something we could actually imagine. Like you could put on one of those headsets and walk around. I think it's such an interesting time for a show like this to exist because it must be the first time that actually. maybe quite a big percentage of people would say,

do you know what, I'd pick the virus? Yes, it's so scary. I mean, I would just say, if anyone wants to follow, that trying of thought, sort of, and like definitely me into the rabbit hole of reading the show as kind of AI parable, there's a great substack by Waleed Shaheed,

who, I mean, I think he's written about multiple episodes, including the finale, which is really, really good. But there's a piece called Pluribus and the sycophantic AI hive. And so he mentions the Grenad, scene and the grocery store scene. The grenade scene is where Carol is trying to push. She's kind of trying to understand what they will give her to make her happy, even if it's at their own detriment. So she says, would you give me a grenade? And they say, yeah. And then she says, would you give me an atom bomb? She's feeling out for where the limit is. And in both instances, as we see, she will get what she wants,

even if it is dangerous for them, dangerous for humanity, dangerous for herself. And then there's the grocery store scene where I think it's she wants a, is it where she wants the sprouts or something? She basically wants to go to the store and have the sprouts she wants, but all of the food has been consolidated, so it's been taken away. She wants the experience of shopping. And so she sells that to the hive and they create it. They bring workers in. They stock the shelves. They do all of this. Even though she is one person, it's hugely wasteful. It's just a performance. But it's almost that we don't mind sometimes how much of something is artifice, as long as you. it feels right for us. And again, as more and more people I think would say yes to the illusion,

that is something which felt really eerie, even though it's kind of like just a silly scene. There's a quote which I highlighted. And he writes, if the grenade scene is about the danger of artificial intelligence that will agree to almost anything, the grocery store scene is about the seduction of never having to do anything truly alone. Both feel uncomfortably close to the way we talk about assistant models now. Omnipresent, friction reducing, eager to help you be more yourself. And I think that is, the whole piece is fantastic, but it's those two scenes. One with the grenade that does.

It's such a good mirror for how generative AI will just say, yeah, you're right. You should have this. You should have anything you want, even if it is obstructive. And then the grocery store scene where she just wants what she wants, she wants the experience of shopping. And this whole fiction springs up around her. And it's just, it feels real, but it's not real. And I just think, I almost want to rewatch it now through a different lens because I was very hooked on this kind of end of culture, end of art in the age of of AI tech. But actually there's so many

other ways to read it. I just thought that piece was fantastic. It's so interesting. You said that AI was the main lens through which you watched the show because I had the exact same thing. Even though I read all of those different takes, a lot of those takes I only learned from other people's readings of them. So for example, the grief one or the abusive relationship one, I'd never thought about that, this idea that when Carol, has these kind of mini explosions. It's the other person shuts down and then she's shamed for having those emotions. And eventually she becomes this very smoothed out version of herself in her relationship

with Zosha, for example. It's like night and day. She's a completely different person. If she has questions, they are phrased very mildly, very timidly. She pokes rather than shubs, which is what she did at the beginning. And it feels like she completely changes to be accommodating to the hive, which is completely different because we meet her being balshy and provocative and deliberately confrontational because

they have taken over the world. So yeah, I wonder, do you guys feel like you can see that take? Yeah, completely. It's such like an abusive partner thing. Like if you do this to me, I'll do that and then all of your actions are under that umbrella of you can't react to them. It's definitely that. I mean, I've definitely been looking at from the AI point of view, but I think I'm so like AI brains that that's where I tend to apply almost to everything. The other thing I did really think, which is interesting you were saying that initially he thought

people would think it was about COVID was it was reminding me, especially with the grocery scenes and the bit when they're like, when we say we can't kill anything, we mean even plants, it was making me think of during COVID when, and actually some of these were fake, but you were seeing animals walking through cities and how the impact of humans not using tons of energy and not going about our daily extra capitalist lives meant that the earth was healing, that everyone was sharing stuff like, oh my God, the world's healing. And so then I was like, is this a parable about, you know, whether or not humans are worthy of existence on this planet at the cost of kind of everything else, which was a conversation that was happening around

COVID and then we swiftly kind of forgot it and went to like capitalist Lux mode straight afterwards. And so I think those two things are coexisting. But I think what's great about it as a show and it kind of goes back to what you said about the intellectual versus emotional is I think this is what happens to be when I'm watching it is it's really making me think. You do have to concentrate because a lot of it is subtitles. The episodes are really. really slow, which if you're not paying attention, if you're double screening, you will just miss stuff. And some of the cast have come out and said that like this, the show that you really have to watch. So I think it feeds me in that way. And I think I'm so used to now such

emotionally high stakes, actually quite ridiculous stakes in shows, like the night managers just come back for season two and the first episode. I was actually blown away about how high step, we can talk about this time. I don't know if either of you've watched it, but it was almost like ridiculous amount of things that happened in that first episode. And I think we're so used to now everything competing for attention, that this being quite a slow burning, enigmatic, sometimes confusing show that actually doesn't really give you, if you're looking for really high stakes, emotional vulnerability, all of that, is not really giving it to you. You do have to kind of work to enjoy it, I guess, in a way.

So we have an early entry slash contender for the main character or villain of the internet 2026 because on the 3rd of January, Justin Murphy took to X with a lengthy post. detailing the ways in which he doesn't like hang out with his kids. Am I a monster? he asked, to which many responded, yes. And a bridge version reads, it's been four years since became a father and I'm beginning to fear for my soul.

The truth is, I just don't like being around my kids so very long. The ideal amount of time I would like to spend playing with my kids is roughly 10 minutes each day. My feelings of love toward them are perfectly strong, but if I have to watch them or entertain them for more than 10 minutes, my blood starts to boil. I just want to be working or accomplishes. something. I tried to be grateful, but it doesn't work. And the post has almost 20 million views

at the time of recording and almost 10,000 replies. And his case has not been helped by older tweets, which people have dredged up, such as this banger from 2020, which reads, Another reason I want a baby is because I need some pro-social cover for my increasing drive to get rich. A childless man with hunger for money is seen as an evil man, but a father with hunger for money is seen as a good man. I have read loads of the replies. I got really sucked into this. responses to them. He has quite an interesting take on stuff. I think he's a very odd man. And someone said that, basically said to him like, what happens if your son might read this in the future? And they might get really upset. And the person who wrote that was a woman. And he said,

women do not often understand the stakes of public life. They struggle to fathom that telling the truth about difficult matters is intrinsically good if it does not harm anyone. And it is always ultimately respected by everyone else who matters. Mostly though, not exclusively other men, including sons when they become men. I'm not an engineer and I'm not a mother. I'm a man and I'm a writer. That's my vocation. You only think that my notes are cruel

because you and I are not the same. You are also not a son. Anyway, he goes on to say it's really convoluted. I don't really understand, but he's basically that men and sons love honesty and that no man will ever grow up and be upset that his father said this. And then in the Artemoth, he wrote,

the mundane truth of my post is that it's gone so viral because it's a real and difficult question. Strong and legitimate feelings on all sides. No easy answer. I wondered if both of you've read it and if you thought that you had an answer, is it perhaps just that he's got a skill issue, okay, only bored people get bored? Or do you think this is fair enough?

I mean, women have come forward in recent years and spoken about the difficulties of motherhood. Is this just a man sharing his perspective? What were your thoughts? This is a wild, wild man. Just even the last quote that you gave were, it's like, strong positions on every side, no easy answer, you know, such an interesting debate full of fire. Like that kind of vibe. It's like, dude, you're talking about your son.

You're talking about not wanting to spend time with your son. It's not a debate. It's not, you know, fiery responses on all sides. It is just like, when you said he was a writer, I was like, okay, everything's clicking. This is a person who is just living his life through the guys of Twitter prose rather than actual emotion. I don't want to be rude, but that's what I actually feel, so I have to say it. I don't want to be rude. I just, yeah, I don't know, something's not clicking.

There's a sensitivity chip missing, as Jennifer Aniston once said. And it's just the way he's writing this, it makes me think that he is on his laptop all day. He's not even spending time with his kids. He's just hypothetically talking about spending time with his kids is my belief. What about you, Beth? Yeah, I'm really, I think it exposes how little community fathers and men in general have because I think women, parents understand, and it wouldn't be shocking as a mother to be like,

God, it is really the worst part playing my kids. It's perfectly normal to not enjoy playing with children. I was a paid nanny for several years. And getting paid for it, I thought, this is fine. I will get on with it. I'll be good at it. I didn't enjoy it. Doing it for free on top of like the mental load,

rearing them, worry they're going to die, all of that stuff. Why would it be fun? I think it'd be quite unusual to really enjoy that part of parenting. So it's sort of like the fact you had to ask and make a big hollabaloo, rather than just talking to his guy friends, as mothers probably will do and be like,

oh, that really, I feel like a bad mom because I don't enjoy it. And they would all go, yeah, me too, but you're doing it. So well done, Mama. It kind of reinforces that notion that we all have, which is that men do not talk to each other enough. And so feel like aliens and then make everyone else's problem. And this conversation has sprung up in kind of in tandem and in conversation with another discussion online

where people are pointing out, they're finding these posts where men have kids and they're like, I would destroy continents for this baby. I would kill for this baby. And people being like, right, but would you just like hang out with her? Like you're probably, you're not going to have to destroy continents for the baby and you obviously wouldn't. Would you just be like a good dad? And it's again the idea that fatherhood exists so much in fiction and in theory for so many men.

It's like to be a good dad, you have to suck it up. And for the, I mean, kids don't want to play with you forever for the eight years or so, probably fewer actually. Because once, you know, they're old enough to throw a ball in a few years. years they'll be doing it with friends. So it's like for the few years that your kid wants to do this with you, you do it. That is the sacrifice of being a father. And I just struggle to believe. The language that he uses, like it boils my blood at like the 11 minute mark. I'm like, this is very different from women who, after a day of doing the whole emotional load, mental load, doing most of the caring, 89% of caring for the children are exasperated. It's just very

different language. And I don't, I'm just not buying it. Oh my God. The way he writes is infuriating, but also it is maddening so he basically is going on about like his virtue as a writer and how like anyone being honest online is worth it and he's like if you never write anything that hurts or make you look bad

then you're not a real writer and your judgment means nothing to me if I found my dad's writing when 20 years ago and they'd had honest stories about the highs and lows just raw stuff where he wasn't trying to make himself

look good but was trying to understand fatherhood honestly and thoughtfully there's hardly anything that can make me respect him more and I was like but you're not really doing that

you're kind of just on Twitter trying to get views like this is quite rage-based And also it's this idea that he's so confused that perhaps playing with your child, the pleasure isn't from the fact that you also enjoy playing with massive Lego blocks. It's that you get a sense of joy

watching your child getting enjoyment from playing. It's like he hasn't clicked. It's like, I don't find this fun. And he also talks about how he's like, I just want to have this time in the morning to have a coffee and everyone's like, well, you're clearly not just having a coffee. You're clearly on your phone. Like the issue here is you want to be on your phone,

not playing with your children. And I agree with you, Beth. It's like they definitely, I mean, there's so much heavy misogyny in this that makes me feel sad of him. It makes it feel like he probably had quite an absent awful father, just the gendered language. And also the ego of this idea that his writing is so worthy that truth is never going to hurt his child. And I think that maybe there has something has spilled over because people were quote tweeting and they were like, women do say this. But you're right, the candor is completely different. It's often completely laden with guilt where women are going like, I've got so much to do and I've got all of this.

and sometimes when she asked me to play with her, I just think, oh my God, I really can't be asked. But the underlying thing is like, I know I need to be doing it. I'm just at my wits end. Whereas this man is exposing how he literally has the free time and he's choosing it not to spend with his children. But I don't know what I think about.

I've never really come across these kind of men online and he's actually got quite a big following and he seems to write quite a lot of diaristic, big posts that he's definitely missing a chip in more ways than one because he's also really enjoying all the responses and trying to be one of those people that's like really South Wales. He's like, what some people are saying is that maybe I have a phone addiction, this could be true. And just not remotely engaging with how massive it actually is that your child

one day probably will see this and hate you forever. I just, I don't think I've encountered somebody like this before. It's very fascinating, but very distressing. It just not exactly like for like, but do you remember when Lena Dunham was super online and just like, it felt like anything that was coming out at her in kind of, you know, accusations of slip-ups or just offending people or like saying really egregious things, like genuinely egregious things, she would just be replying constantly and just like so online-brained that it felt like it just had to be like instant and reactive and it just, it was like so intense. And I kind of get a similar, more extreme version from this.

I don't know what you call that. Maybe it is just genuine social media addiction or something. of the like, but it feels like there's something of a similar thing going on. Yeah, it feels very much like someone that's spent way too much time online, but also trying to go viral, but also reading too much stuff that's either like AI generated or has like AI an AI soul. You know, sometimes a human right something, but it has an AI soul because it's all about like optimization and it's all about like how to smooth everything over. And it just forgets that life is meant to be a bit frictions

and there are seasons to everything and kind of like the minute you step offline and the minute you talk to a human being who's a parent or someone with more experience than you, you will realize like of course everything has seasons of course this isn't going to last.

Of course my feelings are fine. Rather than thinking like, I need to make this into a Twitter moment. It's just very much, this is written by a person that was forged in the fires of Twitter and not in a good way, not that there is a good way.

Like this is someone that has Twitter brain through and through. I think also just a quick to go back to what you were saying Beth about how men were like because you do hear this all the time they're like at all costs all I'm just here to protect you but men don't actually consider parenthood

like we have had so many as three childless women we have so many conversations about the reasons why having a child is such a big thing to consider one of them being that ultimately for zero to for 10 to 18 years depending on how dependent your children are

you may never have a moment of me time again and that's just something women consider before going into parenthood and it's so interesting that men are so shocked and surprised by this because being a dad is not the same as being a mum oh yeah and but what is the loads people quote tweeting being like the minute the men like women realize that men want a baby in the same way that they want a puppy shit will get serious again you're like it's so fucking true and they can actually kind of exist like that they can have a child that's a puppy women cannot so and also they then think that like the men and we say that's for that I retired my wife it's like you're asking your wife to do this unpaid 24

seven, you can't do it for 10 minutes because he wants to do knowledge reading. What's knowledge reading? Because all these men are replying like, I get what you're saying about knowledge reading. Sorry, are you just on Wikipedia? What is that? Okay, well, I'm sure there'll be more entries for villain of the internet, but so far, Justin Murphy, you've taken the crown. Thank you so much for listening this week. We are so happy to be back. Before we go, we have got a brand new Everything in Conversation episode dropping next week. your eyes peeled. If you enjoy listening, then please do leave us a rating and a review wherever you're listening. Can you also please follow us on Instagram and TikTok at

Everything is ContentPod? See you next week. Bye. Bye.