Everything Is Content - Everything In Conversation: Dining Alone & Solo Travel (ft. Emma Gannon)

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

You spoke; we listened. Dining alone is more delicious than a Gü pudding, according to you.This week's Everything in Conversation is a dive into journalist, author and podcaster, Emma Gannon's gorgeous piece for The Guardian on the joy and stigma of dining alone. We also had the absolute pleasure to speak to the writer herself about this, her new novel A Table For One, and how she's built up her career.Thank you so much for your incredible takes on this as always. Could you consider gifting a friend this episode if you enjoyed it? It would mean the world to us and help us continue to keep making this podcast. (Is it cheeky to ask for a review too? x)See you on Friday for our main episode! <3 xxxx Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode is brought to you by London Neutropics. Their delisious adaptogenic coffee is made with premium heaf-festered terra mushroom extracts and designed to help you stay balanced and elevate your day. As a huge procrastinator, I love the Flow blend because it helps me to stay focused without the crash. I usually have a normal coffee in the morning, but a second one would make me way too jittery. So instead, Flow has been the perfect hack for my afternoon slump. I love Flow for that exact reason. I've been drinking it instead of my usual afternoon coffee and honestly I massively prefer it.

I still feel like I'm treating myself while keeping my focus sharp without any of the jitters at the end of the workday. Okay turns out we're all obsessed with Flo because that's my favourite too. I can't believe how productive I feel after drinking it. It's made with the best in class heifers de ter Terras, Lion Mane and Rodeo Life. Rodeola, Rosea, two powerful adaptogens that have been studied for their cognitive benefits around focus, mental clarity and stress resistance. I love the taste of coffee and the boost it gives, but I definitely struggle with anxiety if I have multiple cups a day. Flow has been a game changer for me.

If you want to stay sharp and skip the crash, visit LondonNewTropics.com to try it for yourself. And you can use everything at checkout for 20% off. But hurry, it won't last forever. Thank you, London New Tropics. I'm Beth. I'm Rachira. And I'm Anony. And this is Everything in Conversation. This week, we're diving into a recent Guardian essay by writer, podcaster and novelist Emma Gannon on the stigma and joy of dining alone, with your help of course. But we also have an extra treat, we'll be chatting to Emma herself about this piece and her new novel Table for One. We can't wait to get into our chat with Emma Gannon about Table for One, the practice

of solitude and not losing yourself in a relationship. But before we do, please do remember to follow us on Instagram at Everything Is Content Pod and hit follow on your podcast player app so you never miss an episode. Emma Gannon is the bestselling author of eight books including her first novel, Olive, which I read and loved and was nominated for the Dublin Literary Award. Her nonfiction includes A Year of Nothing, The Success Myth and The Multi-Hyphen Method. She also runs the brilliant and super successful substat called The Hyphen. We can't wait to get into our chat with Emma about Table for One. So last month Emma Gannon dropped an essay in The Guardian titled, Don't You Have Friends

to Go With? The Stigma and Joy of a Table for One. In it she cites the World Happiness Report which downgraded Americans partly because they're apparently eating alone too much. She wrote, And yet there is also a huge number of people who really enjoy spending time alone at a table too. Solo dining in restaurants in the US has risen by a staggering 64% since 2019. While shared experiences and community are really important, Emma explores the pleasure of going for dinner alone, the cultures that embrace it and also the many ways solo diners are discouraged from across society, from being moved to the bar to being given a snack menu over a proper menu. She writes, I don't always want a big raucous dining experience.

Sometimes I want to eat slowly and silently while chewing over my thoughts. Tasting the food, reading a book, looking out of a window, thinking, maybe even with a friendly podcast in my ears for company instead. They talk and you don't need to talk back. Some countries have solo dining baked into their DNA. In Japan it's encouraged and respected. There's even a famous ramen chain, Ichiran, that offers individual booths where people can enjoy their dinner in privacy without needing to interact. And it's now expanded into the US. Some people might think this is sad or too antisocial, but what about if it's chosen as an occasional treat? Life is busy and stressful. What's wrong with wanting to eat a meal in privacy every now and again? So I really would love to know because I actually don't know this about either of you. What are your thoughts

on solo dining? Do you love it, hate it, never do it? I absolutely love it. I feel like I've been nurturing this relationship for years and I got quite good at dining by myself probably about five to seven years ago to the point where I'm like, there's no meal I wouldn't eat alone. There's no restaurant really that I wouldn't go to alone.

I'm trying to think of there's like a restaurant you really wanna go to with another person, like an interactive restaurant. No, I think there's nowhere, or like one where they throw the food at you and cook it in front of you. But even then, I think I'd enjoy that alone. I'm so comfortable with it. I think it's like a muscle that you should exercise. And I think knowing we were going to talk about this and sitting there and thinking about it, I actually am very, very passionate about this. I think it has actually been one of the best things I've done for myself. And in my early twenties, actually, I think probably would have been mostly unthinkable to take myself out for

dinner and truly enjoy it. So I'm yes, highly passionate about this. And I just love it. I think it's so uncomplicated and just eat your dinner, eat by yourself. It's gorgeous. Yeah, I'm the exact same as Beth. I always knew that me and Beth had this and I feel like we've both spoken about this for a while, but I've been taking myself out to eat since my early twenties. When I first moved to London, because I was self-employed and would often be doing like random jobs, I was personal training or whatever. And then I would get offers to eat in restaurants. I just used to go and take myself for lunch. And I was so interested in this article that she talks about having a negative experience. Because

I, and I always say this on Instagram, I've only had lovely experiences dining alone. I've, I used to maybe when I very first started feel like people were judging me, that quickly melted away. People are always really nice to you, people chat to you. I love looking around, talking to people. She mentioned like specifically Italy, obviously everyone has different experiences, but I went to Positano by myself and I was writing my book for eight days and the whole time I was there, I would just go to different restaurants. Everyone was so friendly. They'd always bring me extra bread, like make extra fuss about me. The thing that I was more worried about before that was that year I started doing solo trips. I went to Lisbon by myself. I went to Italy by myself. But yeah, it's

something I absolutely love and as a treat, like one of my favorite things to do is if I finish a piece of work or achieve something is go to like a lovely Italian restaurant, get the most expensive glass of Chardonnay on the menu, sit there with a book and just people watch and maybe like bum a cigarette off someone and sit there as like a very sort of mysterious, elegant lady. It's one of the best things in the world. What about you, Ritera? Firstly, that thing you said about always treating yourself and having a ritual for that is so nice. I definitely want to copy that. So I have just only recently started doing things by myself. And by recently, I think the last two years is what I mean. So

going to the cinema by myself, which I adore. And I mean, I've had lunch by myself for ages. Like you said, I was freelancer for a period. So that doesn't bother me at all. I really enjoy it. But you know what I've realised? I've never had a dinner by myself. It sounds like that's not a big difference but it is. I feel like lunch is quite a fast-paced kind of meal. I think people frequently just like work at lunch. It's a bit more of a like casual atmosphere whereas I feel like a dinner is more intentional. It feels more mindful. People are going for social plans. It feels like a more relaxed atmosphere. I think I should probably push myself to do a dinner because I think I still have some discomfort with the idea of sitting in like a really fancy restaurant and just taking up that space and just asserting myself in doing that, which

shows that I haven't flexed that muscle. I've just realised that now. Maybe this is my ego, but I always think if I go to a fancy restaurant and I'm like by myself and I got dressed up, I never am self-conscious. I just think people are looking at me going, wow, who is she? She's so cool. Like that's always my perspective on it. I think I just think I'm like in a film

and also the amount of eavesdropping you can do. The other day I was just working in a park and I was eavesdropping. There was this couple next to me that I thought was like father and daughter because the age gap was extreme. But then the younger woman in question started telling the man about all these drugs she'd

been taking in Thailand and all the men she'd been sleeping with. And I was like, okay, so this is her dad, but it also like would be really weird if this was her date because why is she telling him this? The conversation was so strange and I was listening for ages. I was really enjoying it to the point where I really wanted to ask like, how do you guys know? Are you weird friends? It was so good, and then they just got up and left, and I literally was like, oh my God,

I need to follow you down the road. It was so good. I, yeah, it's great for nosy people. I do think there's a lot to be said for main character syndrome, or whatever it's called. Gets a bad rep because it's people moving through the world as if no one else matters. But in those instances where you take yourself up for dinner,

where you do something nice for yourself, you are allowed to feel like the main character of your life. And the only time, so I had to rationalize it with myself, like, what do I think when I see gorgeous women, glamorous older women, people by themselves looking so content, do I think what a sad old cow? No, I feel happy for her or them.

I feel perhaps envious. And I think you have to square with reality. I mean, we've got so many messages from people being like, no one cares what you're doing, which is very true. And if they are glancing, if they are paying you mind, it is very likely that they are a bit envious, that they are happy for you, that they're curious. It's not a bizarre thing that you're doing. And I think once you get that into your head and yeah, kind of embody this main character of the action, it gets so much more enjoyable because you're not an oddity, you're not a weirdo, you are just someone doing a very normal thing, but we don't see it all the

time. And so, you know, people look, it is just for that reason. We did get a message from Rachel, which I'm sure you've both seen, and it was a tough love message for listeners. I quite liked it She said not a big deal for me or most my friends But we often travel for work. So eating alone is kind of essential if you want to continue to live This is a quote-unquote bad opinion But the people who are scared to eat alone are a bit like people who are scared to talk on the phone Sorry, just a bit pathetic horrible thing to say but it's true as Jemima Kurtz said

I think you guys might be thinking about yourselves too much And though I don't think it's pathetic at all, because there's a lot more to it and people's fears. And if you don't have that fear, I think just count yourself very lucky. What a wonderful thing not to have to deal with. But that Jemima Kirk quote, God, it's had like miles, it's had mileage. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Just a true amazing philosophy. And in this case, it is very true. I mean, you're allowed to think about yourself, but in that case, you've got to go,

it's not that deep, put on your dancing shoes, tuck your napkin in and get out there. I also think, I guess it's like, you don't have to do it if you don't want to. I think it's a really good skill to have in your arsenal. And I do think there's something really pleasurable about going, what do I want to eat? What do I want to drink?

How long do I want to eat it for? There's something very freeing about being on your own. But I think with so many things in life, it's how you approach it. I think if you approach it nervously, you're uncomfortable. Maybe people will treat you with a bit of sort of like, oh, she looks a bit uncomfortable. Maybe she's not got any friends. I think if you're approaching it with joy lead, joy de vivre, and you're like, I'm going to get this, and you're enjoying it, then it does become really fun. But I actually before, because the eating alone I've always enjoyed, but traveling by myself, I was really nervous about. And I read a book called A Trip of One's Own by Kate Wills, which is all about learning the joy. And it's a really, I would

say that's a really good book for anyone who's nervous about doing anything on their own. It's full of like tips, especially for travel, but also just re-narrativizing the way you think about things. And I think that it is a really good skill to harness. I don't think anyone is pathetic because again, like Emma says in the piece, you know, everyone's really worrying about people eating on their own, completely ignoring the fact that, you know, some people are really enjoying it. But I think a lot of it comes from school where there's this idea that you haven't been picked or, you know, if you didn't have anyone to go to lunch with. I think that's what it evokes and you forget that in adulthood you have that free will to make those decisions. It's not based on anyone not choosing you, not picking you,

maybe just today you want to go and have a gorgeous glass of wine in the sunshine. Also, you can kind of pretend to be anyone. That's the nice thing. You're not being watched by anyone that knows you. You don't have to perform in any way. You're kind of free to indulge yourself in just acting like you're a different person just for that hour or two. It's really lovely. You're so right. That's how I feel when I go to see a film by myself. I take all the snacks I like. I put my coat on the seat next to me if nobody sat there. It just feels so luxurious because you really are just having the experience that only you would want to

have. So I guess it makes sense to just every other experience doing that alone is that repeated just in a different venue. I do just want to clarify my comments. I feel like maybe I need to be clearer. Like I do not think, I think there's so many valid reasons to definitely not want to feel like you can't do this. But then like I'm an anxious person,

I've dealt with like months of like agoraphobia not being able to barely leave the house and go to the end of the road. So I do think, if that's at all encouraging to you, not to be like, what's your excuse if I can do it? But sometimes that's me, but also I'm someone that's traveled a lot by myself. I have taken myself two weeks to Boston, not blinked an eye. So I do think, like I said earlier, it's muscle to be flexed. It's not pathetic and there's no reason not to, but I think the potential reward of it. It is like starting with something like going to a cafe, starting with something

like going to the cinema, like, I don't know if there was ever a time where that felt like, why would I do that? But actually once you start doing it, you're like, why would I bring anyone else to this clear solo activity? And I do think we got a lot of like really nice and encouraging advice from mostly women who do this and wanted to encourage other women to do this. So Lauren said, life is short and I don't want to wait around to do things I want. I've never thought twice about seeing someone else do it. Bring a book or some music and you'll be grand. And that is great advice. Also headphones and a notebook and a notepad or even like a little puzzle book. It's just, it's something to do with

your hands and it makes you so much less anxious or a cigarette, but that's not advice. Do you know what? The book thing is so key to dining alone because I actually, it's really hard to read whilst we're eating. I've tried it so many times, like you tuck half the book under your plate and you're trying to read what you're eating and then you've just got egg down your chin. So, but bringing a book when you're on your own just gives you that sense of purpose where people are like, oh, she's not waiting for anyone. She's here. She's got an activity to do. So even if you're not actually reading, even if you're just listening or listening to music,

whatever, that I think having some sort of like accessory that signals this is just me, this is purposeful. Cause I think I did, I remember, I don't know when I felt this cause I felt I've been comfortable for so long, but part of it in my head was like, are people gonna think I've been stood up, that this isn't purposeful,

that I didn't mean to be eating my own? Which probably comes from like pop culture and films. But again, it's that thing of exuding confidence, being purposeful, being direction full with what you're saying, like I'm dining alone. And Emma says in the piece that sometimes as a solo diner, she would get shoved on the end of a bar or treated not that well.

I will always just say, oh, actually I'd love to go and sit on that table there, please. And more often than not, they will. I actually think on the flip side, you always get space as a single person going to a restaurant. It could be one of the fanciest restaurants. There's always some corner they can put you in, which is more how I see it than kind of being shoved. I'm like, oh my God, I don't need a reservation for this chocoblock sushi bar because they'll just go, oh, fine one. Yeah, I can squeeze you in that random little

cubby hole over there. So one thing I also wanted to ask you both, there's been a lot of writing from women about solo traveling and it also feels like it's positioned as this essential experience to finding yourself and it's almost got this kind of esoteric reverence around it that you do a trip, you become a better person because of it. And I was wondering, do you think that that's necessarily the case? Or do you think it also can just be a nice thing that some people get something out of and some people don't?

Yeah, I think it is definitely not for everyone. I think really, I think some of the most independent like strong minded people haven't really enjoyed it because I think they've they've accessed that alone. It doesn't kind of like I I went away and went, really I am okay alone and I'd never thought I would be. Really I can rely on myself, which as an angsted person, I never thought I could. So I was answering via, you know, I was also having time in my life, but via solo travel, I was answering questions and doubts that I had about myself. I was proving to myself all of these things that were really like world opening. And perhaps actually if you aren't asking those questions, if you know already, and if you know your

personality isn't really aligned, like I love being alone. Like I am, there's a lot of reasons why, like I am quite a solo person. Like I'm an autistic woman who actually feels like so level when I'm alone and I have to be with just the right people. So in the wrong crowd and I am, I never felt lonely and never felt worse. So going away alone, honestly just feels so special. So I don't think it's for everyone, but I will say because I see so many men, like the worst men telling women not to do this, that's how I know this is important for women to do.

Because so many men are trying to discourage women, they're saying, they're trying to attach labels of like, oh, sad, spinster. That's how I know it's actually important for women to try this. I agree with you so much, Beth, because as much as I'm loud, I'm actually really introverted.

I get really exhausted with too much social interaction. So I could happily be anywhere in the world on my own for like two weeks and probably, I would chat to people along the way, like people in coffee shops, but I wouldn't feel any kind of loneliness. I really don't get that. Whereas I have, one of my really good friends was just away for a week somewhere

and she was like, I couldn't do this for any longer. I've got no friends here. She really felt that sense of loneliness because she derives pleasure from being in a crowd and being around people. So I do think that that's like a massive part of it. And I don't think anyone should force this upon themselves. It's not like something you have to get over. It's like, I love living by myself and one of my other best friends couldn't think of anything worse. She really wants to have that company there. So I think that's part of it. But I do think where it's really special for women is we're told that so much of the world is inaccessible to us, that it's unsafe, whether

that's like running late at night or going to do things on our own. And actually that can make you feel like you just don't, you can't experience the world in the same way. And going out and doing things on your own does feel, I think, a bit like reclaiming a bit of the pie and doing it in a way that's safe and makes you happy. I think that can be really empowering in that way. Obviously, there's so much literature and I do think that Elizabeth Gilbert's Eat, Pray, Love really did kind of trigger a lot of these trips. But I still have that fantasy again of doing that kind of eat pray love thing a bit later down the line. And I think there is something really magical again, talking about like projection or when you're with people that know you very well, you either

relax and aren't performing because they understand you so well, or you're performing because you're trying to impress them. There's something quite nice about being seen through fresh eyes where there's no expectation. And I think like a trip away where you're just chatting to people. I'm not saying you have to outright lie, although you could, you could just pretend to be someone else. You do get the chance to explore and kind of shed some of those layers that you feel like are always being projected onto you. So I think there's so much benefit for it. I do believe that for some people, it just isn't a thing, but I think it's worth giving it a go, especially as a woman, because

I think it can be really special. I've got a question, Richara, because we got a message from, and this is one of my favorite messages we got from Ashling, who said, I love it so much, and she's talking about solo dining and solo travel, I think. Said, I love it so much, I purposely do it, making my boyfriend stay at home while I go solo,

it's so needed. You're in a relationship, and I think, would you feel guilty or strange about going, well, I really want to go on holiday alone, for example, because I think that to me, I'd never want that to end, even if I had someone to go on other holidays, I'd never want to not do that, but I do think I would find it difficult to bring up and go,

I want to go on holiday by myself. Maybe this is a stupid question, but would you find it, a kind of betrayal to be like, I love going on holiday by myself? Like, would you, you know, maybe this is a stupid question, would you find it like a kind of betrayal to be like, I love going on holiday with you, but this time I'm going solo or do you think it would actually be very chill? No, not at all. My boyfriend last year went on a trip by himself for a week and it wasn't a big deal at all. And I maybe at the end of last year brought up the fact that I really want to push myself to go on a solo trip and I just haven't gotten around to doing it. So yeah, not at all.

I think there's reasons to go with somebody and there's reasons to want to go alone. I don't think it's a big deal. I did this in my last relationship because I really wanted to get away and get some sun. And he was like, umming and ah-ing if he could get the time off work. And I was like, do you know what, actually,

I'm just going to go. I'll see you in five days. You look after the dog, I'm off. Because also it's that thing of as well, like we spoke about this before, but life is so bloody busy. The amount of like doodle polls in my group chats about when can we go for lunch. I'm actually excited. So I've got dinner with some of my girlfriends tomorrow night, which I'd forgotten about because we booked in in like January, because it's the only time we could see each other. And I think that's another thing that holds us back. And it's like, if you really want to do

something, you know, you've got a bit of money left at the end of the month. I love seeing those videos where people are like, oh, I just remembered I have free will. You can just get on the Eurostar. If you see a cheap ticket to Paris, get on the train to Paris, take yourself lunch, come back the same day. I think that's another part of it is sometimes, especially as women, I think we're constantly waiting to have permission and to be validated in our choices. And for someone to say, I also want to do that. One of the things I'm really working on this year is like, what do I actually want to do? Do you want to go to that event or do you not want to go to that event?

Do you want to have that experience? Do you want to drink at that party? It's something I'm really interrogating myself because I'm so, I don't know if it's people pleasing but I've just trained myself to be like, oh, I'll just go with the flow. And I'm trying to be better at going like, no, what do I actually want to do? And I think this is also good, like Beth said, working that muscle, really flexing that thing

of trusting your instincts, following your gut, and just realizing that you have the free will to book a little trip if you see something on Skyscanner. And if no one else is available, just go by yourself. And it might be an adventure of a lifetime. We had so many messages about people pleasing. And the fact that solo travel, solo dining is an active resistance to being a people pleaser.

Natasha said, as a recovering people pleaser, when I have company, I'm quite often aware of what other people want to do and how they're feeling. If they're hungry, et cetera. When I'm on my own, I just flow. I can walk at my own pace, noticing every little detail, pop into any shop or cafe I like, chat to strangers, stop to take photos of whatever I want. It feels like the world unfolds for me and I can't be wrong. I can't be

late. I can't be too slow. I can't be lost. I'm just giving myself my full attention and love and letting an adventure happen. Or in other words, just having a mooch. That was beautiful. Just written beautifully, like literally got straight to heart. I'm not gonna screenshot that and I'm going to save that to make a camera roll because I do think that's the best side of it.

Yes, it's a little bit difficult. Yes, it's a bit scary, but that at its heart, solo dining, solo traveling at its very, very best. Oh, chills. I used to not love city breaks because years ago when I was in a different relationship, the person I was with had a very different approach

to travel than me. So I had just talked it up that I didn't like city breaks. And then I started going on city breaks like by myself with different people and I was like, oh, I really enjoy a city break. It's just holidaying with the wrong vibe of person. If you're on two different lanes, like maybe one of you is someone that wants to like wake up late and get a glass of wine with lunch. It's just holidaying with the wrong vibe of person if you're on two different lanes.

Maybe one of you is someone that wants to wake up late and get a glass of wine with lunch. Someone else wants to have seen every single cultural landmark by 11 a.m. That can really ruin an experience. And again, it's that thing of you can just do whatever you want and you can have a nap in the middle of the afternoon and no one's judging you. It's actually kind of bad. I mean, no judgment to my friends

and family and lovers of the past. But I do like doing things just how I want to do them, which I don't do when I'm with other people. No, I do think I never really want to go on like a city break with a group of people. Because I think when everyone is kind of compromising, no one gets what they want. And you just do like this weird mishmash of like almost getting it right for one person, but actually no one's happy. One thing that I did want to read out, so it was Robin's message and I found it very insightful and she said, on solo dining, I think it's ironic because as we become so self-obsessed as a society, we're weirdly unhappy with being alone. We constantly think about being perceived. It's

exhausting. Oh, and she ends the message with, your relationship with yourself is the only one you're guaranteed to have forever, you've got to be okay with yourself and that is so true on so many points. I think a lot of women as we opt to stay single longer I think that's a very positive thing because we know you know it's for our own health, we're decentering men, but in general people are kind of drawing the curtains on life, backing away, not wanting to be part of things and I think going out alone, traveling alone, you're in the world. You're exposed to it, you're witnessing it, you allow opportunities to open where people will talk to you,

you have fantastic conversation with strangers, you get new points of view. I think doing that, you realize it's not that big of a deal. Also, lots of life is alone. I don't want to darken the mood, but it's likely there will be an end to relationships. We lose people, we age, people move away, we break up. And to say, well, I get to have that part of life when I'm a pair again, it's just, I think that's a way to lose years and years of your life to waiting. And so it is just very valuable, even if you just start by going to a cafe alone with a book, even if you just start by going to a cinema and feeling uncomfortable the whole time,

it's so valuable to see whether alone is actually not as terrifying as it seems. ["Sweet Home Alone"] So we'll maybe dive straight in because we've already had a little bit of a chat for our Everything conversation with our listeners about your essay in The Guardian about dining alone. And then obviously your new novel Table for One touches on this. We very luckily did get a digital preview. So we know what's in store. We were reading over the weekend. But for our listeners,

could you tell us about your new book, Table for One, and why you wanted to delve into this idea of being content on your own? Yes, definitely. I think when I'm writing fiction, it's sort of like my subconscious coming through. Like I never really know what I'm gonna write about. I never plan my novels, much to my editor's dismay.

I'm always just trying to work out how I'm feeling. And I think that's why novels are so great. And so what I realized when I finished it was just that it was a love letter to solitude basically. And women especially, because my favorite thing is seeing a woman alone eating. I just think it's such a signal to the world that you are happy in your own company,

you would rather be alone than be with someone like mediocre basically. And just like the pleasure that comes from that alone time, I think it speaks volumes. And then when we came up with the title of Table for One, I was like, I have uttered those three words so many times in my life. So it just felt nice to kind of consolidate it, I think. I mean, we were saying this yesterday, like Anoni and I love eating at a Table for One by ourselves. And it does, it goes from being kind of almost a shameful thing of,

yes, Table for One, I could admission to being like a Table for One. And you know, and it's really empowering. Before we do get deeper into the novel, which I can't wait to do, wanted to start by asking, if you, prior to this and kind of in your life, have tended to gravitate towards books about solitude, about new beginnings, about going solo out in the world, and if so, are there any favoritesites in the kind of whether that's a

song, a book, a poem, a film? And do you have any favourites? Yes, I have so many. And I've just actually written something on my newsletter, which was like 10 of my favourite books about solitude. So there are loads, but one that sticks out is by someone called Glynis McCall. I don't know if you've heard of her. She's an American author. But I actually met her in New York last year. I feel like I just gravitate towards certain types of women. They just like fall into my life and I'm like, oh we were meant to meet. And anyway she wrote a book called I'm Mostly Here to Enjoy Myself about pleasure in Paris and it was post pandemic. She's single and she was like I just need to go to Paris and go on loads of dating apps. She did do that, but she also ate by herself a lot and spent a lot of time by herself.

And she's just this amazing woman. She wrote a piece for the New York Times called I'm 40, childless and single, and no one believes me that I'm happy. And it went viral because everyone in the comments were like, I don't believe you. How can you be happy? But I am sometimes because I am married and I am happy with my marriage. But some of my favourite memories of my whole entire life are being alone. And I don't know what that means. But I think I can have both. And

that's sort of why I wanted to talk about this topic because it's not very black or white for me. I love that. And in the book, we get this theme of this question around I think single women are always questioned about whether they're truly happy or if they're just lying and trying to pretend to kind of make up for the fact that they haven't found this mate. Beth and I are both single. I've got to the point where I'm feeling so happy single that I'm actually worried that I'm never even going to meet anyone because I'm so happy in my life. And I love seeing that represented more because I think society has so told us that single women are spinsters, lonely, that they're unhappy, that you start to believe

it. So when art and books and literature tell you that actually, no, a lot of single women are really happy, I think it allows people to lean into that truth. When you were single before or when you do manage to like carve out pockets of alone time, has that been something you've always been good at? Or was that like a breaking through period where you had to train yourself to feel comfortable being alone, especially like out in the open in restaurants in common spaces? Yeah, I mean, I think in my 20s, I found it difficult, because I loved being alone and I always have done and it's always a massive part of me but I felt embarrassed by it and I felt I was a very self-conscious 20-something.

I thought everyone cared what I was doing and was looking at me and then you grow older and you realize literally no one cares and you're just sort of on your own journey. But I would definitely be sat in a restaurant like trying so hard to enjoy it but thinking like everyone was like pitying me or the waiter felt sorry for me or everyone thought I didn't have any friends and in that Guardian article I mentioned that woman at work who was like oh do you not have any friends to go on your solo trip with and I just wanted to kind of I guess mark the growth like in myself that now I'm so proud of it whereas before I always felt like I was having to justify it and I think that's what's so nice about growing into yourself is you can just stand

there and tell people what you're doing and you don't really need any feedback. And I think as often as I'm sure when I travel alone, eat alone, there's someone who goes she's been stood up or you know I'm sure that crosses someone's mind at some point. But I think just as often, someone is thinking, wow, mysterious woman. Oh, wow, she looks really peaceful and happy. And even people will come up and say that. So I think it's just letting all of that, the good and bad wash over you and just being like, it's not really my business. To go a little bit deeper into the novel and this idea of kind of being single, think something it gets really right and I really Related to was this character was this kind of idea of like the single friend and in the novel that's

Our protagonist Willow's one of her best friends Penn and it's this friend who's always available this friend who's kind of you know fits around her coupled up friends Who's dating life is mined for kind of entertainment. And it's all in good fun, but it's also as the single friend, I just found myself being like, wow, this is exactly what it's like. And I wanted to ask, crafting this character,

which you do so well, did that come about, were you talking to single friends, interviewing single women about what it means to be single now? Were you kind of going back into the archives and remembering a time when you were single? You know, where's Penn from? Oh, thank you. I loved writing that character. I think she's my favorite, actually. I definitely see her in a lot of my friends, like friends who are working things out,

and it feels like they have to do it almost like publicly, even though just within the friendship group. It's like they're always being questioned. They're always like cornered at a wedding being like, right, so what are your updates? Like they're a reality TV show. And also like, oh, who am I going to set you up with? And they're like, I've not mentioned once that I want to be set up with anyone. And just that feeling of, they're trying so hard to sort of be on their own journey, but they have to like do it sort of like they're being watched. I don't know, I've really felt that. I also felt a little bit like I could put a little bit of myself into Penn because, and I'm not saying it's the same, but I think when I was choosing not to have children, I felt that same energy

of like I had loads more free time. I was always on the WhatsApp group being like, hey, I don't wanna do anything and everyone was busy with their kids. And so I don't know, I feel like there was a little bit of an overlap there between being the one who was just more available and how that can feel quite lonely and strange.

Something that really resonated with me, and this is not to say that everything's like this, but there's a situation where at the beginning the friends are doing something really fun for the protagonist's birthday and the boyfriend's kind of like oh I think we should go home and I can't explain to you how many times in my life someone's boyfriend has ruined someone's birthday or really like spoiled the fun and just made things really boring and there was so many parts in that story I mean that relationship is just heart-ingly stressful. And yeah,

I just really enjoyed reading that and watching it play out. But also this theme, this idea of recognising, as you said, right at the top, and it's one of the lines in the book as well, of realising that being in a partnership does not always, or actually maybe often equal better than being alone. And actually sometimes being in a partnership can be quite detrimental. Do you think there was that statistic that came out that said, statistically actually single women are happier than they're like married women counterparts whereas married men are much more happy.

How do you think society is catching up with that? Do you think that we are getting to the place where actually that stigma is slightly being resolved and we are recognizing that men, especially male partners, can actually be a massive hindrance to a woman's life if they're not that perfect fit. Or do you think we still got a long way to go before society kind of catches up with that? Yeah, that research blew my mind, but also didn't because I was like, it's so obvious. Like, of course, your lifespan would shorten if someone was mining you

emotionally and using you as a therapist and making you like take care of them. I mean the reason I feel like I can write this book, and maybe a lot of people might assume I'm single, I like to have like weirdly a single energy about me like as in I don't want to ever feel trapped like I can't do anything I want to do. Like when I met my partner we were both like, this will only work if we feel totally free. Which I know might sound strange to people, but I can literally, if I want to go tomorrow somewhere else for a month, I know I can do that, and he'll be like, okay. And I think it helps that when we don't have children, obviously. But I do think that we should question that dynamic more. And I think a lot of

women in the generation above me are very angry because they are seeing younger women take up space that they felt they couldn't. And they're like, Oh my god, I've, I've really been the bottom of the pile for a long time to a husband who maybe acted more like a son and I was sort of having to manage him rather than just be married to someone. Like my marriage is like, we're both equal, we both like take it in terms to cook every night, we feel like we support each other, we lift each other up. I think it would be the same if we were like

in a same sex relationship, if that makes sense. Like it genuinely feels like we're just companions and we make each other's lives better. But if I was single, I feel like I would also get lots of joy. So it's, I don't know. I, yeah, I love that we're talking about this because I feel like it's important.

On that note, we got a lot of DMs for the other part of this episode from women on the subject of solo dining and traveling and saying, as married women and as women in relationships, they really want to do this. And some of them say they do do this, husband stays at home and it is that really loving dynamic

where when you love someone, yeah, of course, you want their experiences to be full and them to follow their hearts and have adventure. But a lot of people saying, but I don't know how to ask. And I wonder whether one, you'd had any kind of advice for someone who wants to say to a partner, Hey, I love you. I want to do things together, but also I want to do things apart. And also whether you find that people project on you, you know, their own stigma about the fact you are married,

but this is also a fine thing to do, whether there is a stigma to being a part of a couple, but also very invested in a solo journey. Yeah, I mean, I wrote a piece for Condé Nast Traveler about this and it was called like my marriage sabbatical, which was such a kind of intense headline because really all it was was just like I went on holiday for a bit. But I wrote about that moment where I sat across from my husband, we were having breakfast, and I was like, I need to tell you something. And he was like, what is it? And I was like, I really want to be alone for a long time.

It's like, okay. And like, as in, I wasn't asking for permission, but I was just like, is this an issue? Like, what's going on? And then I went away and like missed him loads and came back and was like, oh my god, I love my life. And it was almost like the best thing I could have done because it just clarified that no, I'm I am really happy I just also want to be alone sometimes and I have a lot of friends that that's the case so I could ask for their opinion on it I guess all their advice but my like a very close person to me recently has has got divorced

She's quite a lot older than me. And when I told her about this break, she was like, I just think that's amazing. Like it, my marriage could have been saved if I had had more alone time. And so anyway, everyone's different. And I'm not saying it's the answer, but I think it's actually quite deranged to feel like you are like attached to someone for life and you can't do anything else. Isn't that a bit strange? I don't feel like what I did was strange. I feel like the opposite would be strange. So there's, I mean, I can't think of the exact line,

but there is a line that it's something about someone losing the life that they had and saying, but I already have the life I want and everything's changing. And it's this idea of working so hard, everything falling into place, meticulously making a life and then because life is life and very unpredictable, it goes, it changes massively and you lose quote unquote the things that you have worked for and wanted and so I wonder if you've got any advice for people who are in their 30s, 40s, beyond and

realizing that perhaps like Willow in the novel, they are having to begin a new and unknown chapter. Is there any advice that you've heard or any kind of pearls of wisdom for not thinking everything is over, but instead thinking, okay, but the new thing is starting? Yeah, I mean, it's so true, isn't it, that we can look at our lives and think, Oh, that's

not really how I pictured it. It never is exactly how you picture it. And I think for a lot of us, we're not taught the cycles of nature and how they really do show up in human beings like we're quite disconnected, I think, in like a modern society where we think we are in control of everything and that we can make anything happen and we can, but but in collaboration with the world, like, we know that we have so much similarities with like how the seasons are, and we're just so part of it all. And I think the scene in which Willow goes to the butterfly kingdom where she is talking to the guy Brian about the cocoon and like coming

out of the cocoon and how we all have to melt down and reshape and then come back out again. I think the first time that happens to you and it can be grief or it can be burnout or it can be heartbreak or it can be losing your dream job or it can be realizing that success is not going to make you happy or it can be heartbreak, or it can be losing your dream job, or it can be realizing that success is not gonna make you happy, or it could be losing some money. We all have these things that happen to us, and I think the first time it happens,

it is a catastrophe. And then over time, you're like, oh, I've been here before. We just get a blanket and a cup of tea and a dog and a film and ride this out, and you will be better on the other side. But that is just such an annoying piece of wisdom that I've only just started to realize myself.

I think from the outside looking in, your career just looks like you've just gone from strength to strength and everything you touch, it seems to blossom and bloom. But I'm sure that from your own lived experience, have you had those moments where it's felt like you've had a really big setback and in fact that setback has then set you on a better track? Because when I look at you, I just think everything she does is just like,

she absolutely nails it, but I'm sure I know that can't be true, unless it is, in which case, what is your secret? Thank you. That's really lovely. I think, yeah, I've definitely had Thank you. That's really lovely. I think, yeah, I've definitely had moments where I've thought it was the end of the world and then actually it was the best thing for me. I mean, there's lots of little things I could tell you like, you know, having like a book idea rejected and then being like, oh, my writing career is over. And then actually, it was just that that book wasn't right. And, you know, when I had to shut down my podcast, because I was too unwell to do it, I was like, great, my career is over. And then actually it was just that that book wasn't right. And you know, when I had to shut down my podcast, because I was too unwell to do it, I was like, great, my career's over.

And then actually it led me to do my sub stack, which is like the best job I've ever had. There are so many things now that makes me think that actually there's something out there that's like on my side. I like truly believe that for everyone. And it's like, you can say that from the outside, because I think when you're in the darkness, you can't see that. So you don't want to hear that. But I think objectively

speaking, most things are kind of trying to shape you down a certain path that you were always going to go down anyway. And like a lot of it was just me sabotaging myself, quite frankly, like I, what's that Taylor Swift line that's like, it's, I'm the problem, it's me. Like a lot of, a lot of my problems, mostly, well actually all of them was from me trying to mess it up. So yeah. Thank you so much for listening this week. Make sure you go grab a copy of Table for One, which is available now at All Good Bookshops. If you've enjoyed the podcast, please do leave us a rating or if you really want to spoil us a review on your podcast app, Fight Stars Please.

Please also follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Everything Is Content Pod. See you on Friday. Bye! Friday. Bye! This episode is brought to you by London Neutropics. Their delicious adaptogenic coffee is made with premium heaf-festered-terra mushroom extracts and designed to help you stay balanced and elevate your day. As a huge procrastinator, I love the Flow Blend because it helps me to stay focused without the crash. I usually have a normal coffee in the morning, but a second one would make me way too jittery. So instead, Flow has been the perfect hack for my afternoon slump.

I love Flow for that exact reason. I've been drinking it instead of my usual afternoon coffee and honestly, I massively prefer it. I still feel like I'm treating myself while keeping my focus sharp without any of the jitters at the end of the workday. Okay, turns out we're all obsessed with Flow because that's my favourite too. I can't believe how productive I feel after drinking it. It's made with the best in class heifers de teres, lion mane and rodeo life. Rodeola, Rosea, two powerful adaptogens that have been studied for their cognitive benefits around focus, mental clarity and stress resistance. I love the taste of coffee and the boost it gives,

but I definitely struggle with anxiety if I have multiple cups a day. Flow has been a game changer for me. If you want to stay sharp and skip the crash, visit LondonNewTropics.com to try it for yourself. And you can use everything at checkout for 20% off. But hurry, it won't last forever. Thank you, London New Tropics.