Everything Is Content - Everything In Conversation: Millie Bobby Brown & Public Shaming

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

It's another highly requested Everything In Conversation! This time we're diving into the discourse surrounding actor Millie Bobby Brown, after she was highly criticised for 'looking old'. Are we right to scrutinise young stars and their aesthetic choices, or have we slipped back into 00s cultural shaming?Thank you to everyone to messaged in with thoughts for this. Remember you can also get your hands dirty in these pop culture debates just by following us on Instagram @everythingiscontentpod. Also PLEASE could you give us a glowing review? We're growing thanks to your help, and this is the primary way to make sure we can keep going as an indy podcast <3See you on Friday for the main episode! xxxx Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth I'm Richera and I'm Anoni and this is everything in conversation this is where we update you on the biggest pop culture stories from the week before discussing a hot topic chosen by you with all of your thoughts included remember if you want to take part in these extra episodes just follow us on instagram at everythingiscontentpod. That is where we decide on topics and ask for your opinions. This week, we're talking about Millie Bobby Brown and her response to the journalist who decided to write about her appearance. But first, the headlines from the EIC newsroom. in twitter news it's the end for one popular uk account at lorraine k watch e.g the viral account that sends updates as to whether lorraine kelly has or has not hosted her own breakfast show

the account has announced they will cease tweeting r.i.p in a statement posted on sunday the account wrote quote i have always said if lorraine or her team reached out and asked me to stop this account then i would while i have not had any contact with lorraine or anyone affiliated with her her Netflix's Penn Badgley's murdering stalker series, You, will return for a fifth and final season on April 24th. Dochi has been named Billboard's 2025 Woman of the Year, joining previous title holders Madonna, Cardi B, Billie Eilish and Ariana Grande to name but a few. Lady Gaga's sixth studio album Mayhem was released last week. Pitchfork gave it an 8 out of 10, calling the album a massive attack of good vibes.

NME gave it 4 out of 5 stars and praised it as so much fun, while Rolling Stone said this album proves that Gaga is, To mark this year's Commonwealth Day, King Charles has released a playlist in collaboration with Apple. His song choices included Kylie Minogue's The Locomotion, Beyonce's Crazy in Love and Ray's Love Me Again. Vanderpump Rules cast member James Kennedy has issued an apology after spending time with and posting photos with Andrew and Tristan Tate in Las Vegas last week. Taking to Instagram after receiving backlash, James wrote, I regret posting a photo with the Tate brothers at an event last night. I was unfamiliar with their content and the allegations against them. I only knew them as podcasters who had posted a viral clip about Vanderpump. I have since educated myself and condemned their beliefs. I am sorry to all that I offended. After several hours of recurring outages on Monday, Elon Musk said X had faced a massive

cyber attack. He tweeted, there was and still is a massive cyber attack against X, Musk wrote, where he has more than 219 million followers. We get attacked every day, but this was done with a lot of resources. Either a large coordinated group and or a country is involved. Ariana Grande is releasing a deluxe version of her chart-topping 2024 album Eternal Sunshine on March 28th. White Lotus star Jason Isaacs has spoken out about that scene from this week's episode where he flashed his children saying quote go big or go home. And that's all from the headlines this week. So earlier this month 21 year old Stranger Things actress Millie Bobby Brown released a video and statement on her Instagram account,

hitting back at and naming the journalists and public figures who had participated in discussions about her appearance, in specific discussions about whether or not she's had cosmetic work done and whether she looks quote-unquote old as a result. The actress has been pictured on the red carpet in full glam a few times recently, while promoting her latest film, The Electric State, for Netflix. And it seems to have been these appearances that have sparked online discussion with hundreds of tweets and comments from people saying that she looked in her 40s, that her hair and makeup was aging her, that she looks like she's had plastic surgery, that she appears like Ivana Trump, e.g. Donald Trump's ex-partner, ex-wife. And in her statement, she wrote,

quote, this isn't journalism, this is bullying. The fact that adult writers are spending their time dissecting my face, my body, my choices, it's disturbing. The fact that some of these articles are written by women, even worse. We always talk about supporting and uplifting young women, but when the time comes, it seems easier to tear them down for clicks. End quote. Now, this is a topic that quite a few of you requested and had thoughts on. And I know that the three of us also have thoughts. So let me ask, what did you both think of the discourse that's come from this and the fact that these journalists had covered this and that she has

now called them out by name I think it was so good that she wrote that post when celebrities don't reply back to that level of scrutiny and that kind of discourse around them it's really easy for us to assume that they don't see it it doesn't impact them we're just having our chats online it's completely removed but of course they see it all of course it impacts them of course that level of discourse reaches them so I think it was a really good reminder for a lot of us for everyone for journalists who operate like this that it is disgusting it is pretty disgusting the amount of shit she gets so actually this came up at my birthday dinner with me and all my friends we like just couldn't stop talking about it because

when you actually focus on what's happening like the amount of people posting about how she looks it is genuinely like insane and I think it does take her doing a video like that to break through because actually you can get so used to seeing that kind of content that you almost forget that there's a real person on the receiving end of it who is undoubtedly seeing it so I thought her statement was really powerful and really good it was funny though because one of my friends who's a journalist was really cross about her calling out the journalist by name because she was like they're all junior writers they will not have picked the subject matter for those pieces basically your editor will say write this piece if you say no they'll say fine I'll get someone else to write it or you'll be fired so I thought that was quite an interesting element

because she was like they're all young kind of junior writers and I don't think she should have called them out maybe she should have called out the publications I don't necessarily have as much experience in that kind of journalism so I'd love to know what you guys thought as people who have written much more publications on that and the other thing that I was thinking about was another friend was like, well, she has a beauty brand. So she's like kind of part of the problem because she's also perpetuating like this beauty industry to younger women.

But what I've always tried to explain, it's such a difficult, like Russian doll, chicken and egg situation, which is when you have women in the public eye, they are constantly scrutinized for how they look and they have access to lots of, if they want to go and get work done, plastic surgeons and makeup artists

and hairstylists and dress designers and whatever. So they will do to lots of, if they want to go and get work done, plastic surgeons and makeup artists and hairstylists and dress designers and whatever. So they will do, of course, everything in their power to protect themselves from people being nasty about how they look. And then often the results of that cause people to be nasty about how they look. So it's really hard, I think, to say it's even the Kardashians are kind of different. But there's so many celebrity women where they kind of get blamed for women's insecurities when at the same time they are also on the receiving end of a shit ton of amount of abuse how they look so it's really complicated to try and figure out you know who is the problem here I think we're kind of all the problem just upholding everything but anyway those are my two questions to you about whether or not she should have called out the journalist and whether or not

you think it's hypocritical because she has a beauty brand because they were the two things that came up at my dinner so I've never worked on a kind of news desk where that's the kind of stuff I'm covering. And I do genuinely feel conflicted on that because so difficult for young writers to get their start. Sometimes you will, if there's a job going at the sun, I understand why people take it. But then if a feature and a facet of your job is to participate so heavily in the kind of gleeful speculation about a child actress who has been, I mean, sorry, former child actress who for most of her life now and most of her career or all of her career has been treated in just the creepiest ways. I think that problem

goes right to the root of your job. And I think, can you really then go, I'm just doing my job when a part of your job is to do that. And I, you know, I think it's very, very difficult. And I think the people responsible are not those junior writers. But if you are on the front line of it, you're going to kind of get that backlash. And I think you've got to think very long and hard if that is the kind of journalism that you want to participate in, in this exact moment in time. But I do think that's tough. And I just don't know enough. I feel like you're probably right. I think Millie Bobby Brown is right at the epicentre of this. She's just doing her best, but also she's making this profit from it. But also, I just feel terrible for her. I don't think before sitting down and mulling this over,

I realised how much shit she has gotten or how weird her life has been in the Bobby guy, just by virtue of being a young, pretty girl at the time, the biggest show ever. I remember on Twitter, she was getting all of these jokes about being homophobic. I don't even remember this. That was when she was 14. People have treated her with a kind of paedophilic obsession since probably she was much younger than that. I remember being on Twitter and being like, Millie Bobby Brown's homophobic? And the jokes were, so basically she's not homophobic. There was no evidence of this. She was a child, but it was very online behaviour behavior it was a running joke where based on nothing and it was this absurdist humor that was really big on twitter especially it was like very chaotic very weird

clearly untrue but they're saying she's a raging homophobe that she was doing hit and runs on the lgbtq population that she was throwing hot coffee hot mcdonald's coffee on anyone wearing pride merch which obviously it's ridiculous enough to be like crazy. And people really enjoyed the jokes. And then she came off Twitter. I mean, she shouldn't have been on Twitter when she was a child, but her account came off Twitter and everyone was like, oh, does she know about this? Is it quite bad that we did this joke? And I think that is just one of the many weird things that have happened since she became famous at like 10 11 years old you know she's not actually had a moment of peace and so it's I find it very difficult I'm sure there are things to

criticize in being a very real cog in the machine but I'm finding it very difficult to criticize that because I do believe she should probably be allowed to shoot a man a day for the way that they've treated her that is I I wasn't there for that joke, but that is so insane. That is so, it's so Twitter. It's so Twitter. With the news journalist element that you mentioned, Anoni, I think that definitely is true. It definitely is, in my experience, when you work on a news desk, your editor will kind of brief you on stories that they need covered. And obviously, everything is kind of done through the prism of SEO and stories that will do well with traffic so something like this is just like the perfect lightning rod for a story that will probably do well people will click on it but by virtue of working at places that I feel more comfortable with their political leanings and the content they put out I've never been in a position where I've had to write something that is making me feel so uncomfortable that I think I could be hung out to dry in that way and I think this is something that I have struggled with a lot is just there

is a level of privilege in me being able to pick places that I can work that I don't have that issue but at the same time it's not privilege because I'm a brown woman even from the end of me doing my journalism degree I just I never wanted to work in those places because I just felt if I work in those places I will actively be hurting communities I don't know you know I couldn't look them in the eyes I couldn't look at my own community if I worked in those places but the thing that I'm really interested in also is conversations around have we just slipped back into noughties tabloidid shaming culture, and we're doing it, we're the proponents of it online. I think we have this kind of moral sense of responsibility to call out a Zen pic, for example, to call out tweakment use, because we're trying to protect

and analyze the culture we're in. That's a really admirable cause. But what I'm seeing is that we've slipped back into a similar, oh, well, she looks old for her age. Oh, she looks shit. Oh, she has taken a Zen pick. What an embarrassing woman. Kind of rhetoric rather than any kind of useful discussion. when really a lot of the conversations to my eyes have slipped into a darker place and it doesn't seem to have that duty of justice or responsibility or integrity to it that I think people think they have yes I agree we actually had a message as well from Claire that said there's definitely something broken here but I actually do think transparency with celeb facial with celeb facial procedures is the only way we can break the spell, which is a conversation that I have had on my Instagram so many times, which is, is it better for celebrities to disclose what work they've had done in the name of transparency? Or does that actually just encourage more people

to try and go on out and emulate what they've had done? And I also do think it's a really tricky line here. Robin said, said it seems obvious but the media that create issues and verticals are now attacking those who fix them I love her naming and shaming while to me we discuss women this way it's those two things that I've already kind of said which is on the one hand for the public the people that are being impacted by this image that these women are promoting is it helpful for those women to be like look full transparency here's what we've had done this is the work I've had done blah blah blah also are those women such victims of the ways that they're objectified that actually if they want to get a nose job and not tell anyone

about it that's up to them because their job is being highly visible highly scrutinized having their face on camera every day potentially being papped like when they're walking down the street it's so twofold because you have the individual and then the wider impact of it but there's still individuals at the heart of that especially I think when it's kind of actors I weirdly think it's more influencers because there's that level of transparency there and because the way that the work of influencing works is it is slightly more kind of grassroots and in touch with your audience whereas actors I think often we don't necessarily have to know as much about them because they are merely a vessel with which they tell stories and portray other characters and I don't know it's

really complicated and I don't know that there necessarily is an answer or I don't think we can ever really expect anyone as much as it might feel useful to admit what they've had done I just don't know if that's ethically fair because they're also under a great amount of pressure so that is quite difficult but on the flip side this is kind of going off on a tangent I did see a video which I thought was really interesting which was saying that in a few years it's going to be a flex to have not had cosmetic surgery and natural faces going to really come back in and I actually do think that is true and I think we are reaching actually this end point where people are actually starting to see certain types of work as quite negative and I think we are going to see a swing back around to like natural noses and that kind of thing coming back in which I think is going to be really interesting I mean we've seen it with kind of

BBLs but I'm interested to watch that pendulum swinging back people coming forward and getting all their fillers off which we've seen a bit of already but I never really have an answer for this because to me it's just like a loop that just goes round and round in circles. It's difficult isn't it? The one instance which I feel like like is a very clear cut instance of it being a problem was when Kylie Jenner had her lips done. But then she also released lip kits before she came out and said that she had her lips done. And I was naive as shit. So I thought, oh, okay, yeah, she's just over lining her lips. Maybe I could get this super expensive, not available in the UK kit to emulate her look guys I was like 16 at the time I was stupid as shit so I think that's the problem because she

was explicitly profiteering off the fact that naive people like me didn't really realize what filler was and it was based on a lie this business it was hinged on the fact that she had come out with a lie and created all of this hype around her look so I think that one for me is one that I will always remember but many of the instances after that feel really difficult to fall down on an opinion on the only other thing I can think of is when buckle fat removal became a trend and so many people got it in Hollywood so it was really obvious that there is a trend of plastic surgery and this idea that gaunt faces are becoming the most beautiful faces I think that's when it is interesting to call it out but also important because what does that say about

other types of faces it's so interesting like to think about Kylie Jenner especially she sits really perfectly at that intersection of in lots of people's minds like perpetrator and victim she was also a teenager when she was getting these procedures when when these things were coming out and you know the profit was on the fact that she had smaller lips than very big lips and was able to sell a product off the back of it. And then I don't know if Millie Bobby Brown is quite in the same category. Maybe, you know, it is her in a different kind of form and we do have to tread really lightly. I got a message from Dina who just said, definitely fair of her to call it out. Nobody deserves scrutiny like that just for existing. And I thought, God, it is sort of just for existing and she's existing in a very specific industry. And

it also reminded me of those accounts. I'm sure they're still there on Instagram. They're maybe not making as big of a splash where an anonymous user would take photos of famous people and then scrutinize kind of what they've had done and do befores and afters and really zero in on the things, I guess, in an attempt at transparency, in an attempt to democratise this knowledge of you can't achieve this with a lip pen, you can't achieve this with contouring your face, this is surgery, which I'm so torn on because I think it's so frustrating. They do have to use real and existing women as examples and it gives way so quickly to misogyny and then it's just a further evil in the world. And I wish, you know, how can we encourage this transparency? Even just to say to people, look, this is a famous people

procedure. This is not in your tax bracket. I mean, I remember finding out what buccal fat removal was and I was like, I'm just, I was happy five minutes ago before I knew this. I don't want it. It's not in my tax bracket at this point anyway. I just wish I didn't know. But I'm wondering, you know, is there a way that we can make sure everyone is more aware of the reality of the aesthetics industry, but not lured in by it, but also that we're not stoking these misogynistic fires off the back of it. I think it's really hard to draw the line. And I'd love, it was Claire, like you said, who suggested this. And I actually kind of love that practical solution of like, maybe if we did this, it would be a net positive. But then I'm like, oh, we got into the weeds with it. And it

is really difficult to change that and to sort of do that without causing further harms. It's almost like you just want to change. You want to go back to the source and to sort of do that without causing further harms it's almost like you just want to change you want to go back to the source and just make everyone love each other I sound like that women and mean girls like I just want everyone to be friends well the other thing with those like celeb face and those pages is I don't know about you guys but if I look back at pictures of me when I was like 13 my nose is like double the size your face really changes as you get older like you have puppy fat and if you put mine is very very slimmer if you put like pictures of me side by side on that thing from like 12 till now you'd be like oh my god nose job buckle fat removal like you just do as your face ages like

you do start to look a bit different but coming away from whether or not she's had any work done I think one of the other things that really stood out to me was a lot of this was just about like her styling and her makeup now that's by my mind I think she is 20 she's 21 years old she's obviously had the really sped up childhood and she's married and she's living quite like a sort of adult life because I think that happens to child stars where you're brought up very quickly you become an adult like at a really sped up speed so I'm not being very eloquent and when I was 21 and throughout all different ages of my life and still now I was trying on different looks and different ways of doing my makeup and she's gone from being a natural looking young girl to trying out quite heavy makeup there's lots of rumors

that it's because she's actually angling to try and be in the Britney biopic at the minute which is why she's doing like her blonde hair and that kind of like naughty styling and yes I didn't love the peach dress because it just made me think whenever they do movies about weddings in the 80s all of the bridesmaids always wearing peach but like who cares that's really not an issue that was what I think was almost worse I do think there is an element of necessity in talking about you know work done by celebrities not specifically in anyone's case but just for all the reasons we outlined about people that aren't celebrities people that don't have that access to income people that really probably didn't have insecurities until they found out that there was a new thing to feel insecure about. I do think there is a conversation to be had about

the ubiquity plus surgery. But when it comes to Millie Bobby Brown and the way she's doing her hair and the way she's doing her makeup, it did feel very dated, the level of scrutiny that people were giving her and the amount and the brazenness with which people were saying that she looked bad. This is a 21-year-old woman. Most of us at 21 were out of school either starting our first jobs or at uni trying out different types of eyeliner maybe we've just been able to afford that next step up in makeup rather than buying drugstore makeup she's got to be allowed to live and I just think that that is where it's really really cruel and this is where I do think thank god I'm not famous and actually now that I'm older I would never really want to be that level of famous when I was 21 I would have loved to have been Millie Bobby Brown

famous and as I get older I think actually I'm really grateful that that never happened for me because I would not be able to cope I would go to the surgeon's office like guarantee I was thinking about this I was like if I was under that scrutiny there's no way I would resist it I'm not going to speculate on whether she's had anything done I actually agree I think she looks like a 21 year old that's in full glam it does make you look mature because a lot of the aesthetics are for older women. We've discussed this in previous episodes, like that's the spec as far as my speculation will go. But I was thinking if I was that famous, I would be in that surgeon's chair, I would be doing whatever I thought the papers would want me to do. So I do applaud her and I

feel sorry for her. But I know that I shadowed it out. I began, teeth, nose, whatever they suggested, and that fills me with icy dread. Yeah, exactly the same. If money wasn't a deterrent and you have that level of scrutiny, I'd 100% do the same. So we had a message from Claire who said, if you look, for example, at Penelope Cruz's Oscars post, there is not a single woman with a line on their face and not a single man without plenty. We've got to a place where we're co-opting a narrative about supporting other women to perpetuate a system

where everyone gets their faces cut up in secret and we pretend it's not happening. And the majority of the people leading even the critique are under 30s without any facial lines because older women have to be silent around this issue. We cannot keep pretending it's not happening and calling it out as feminist or anti-feminist. However, tabloid style media attacking

an individual's actual looks is clearly unhelpful and contributes to the overall problem. So Millie Bobby Brown shouldn't have been bullied in that way but calling out surgery is not the same as bullying for looks. It's getting to the point where I wish social media could put a sticker on photos of modified faces like they started to with being transparent about paid ads. That bit at the beginning about the women not being wrinkly and the men being wrinkly reminds me of that Carrie Fisher quote, which is women don't age badly. It's just that men are allowed to age. And it's exactly that. Like we're just not allowed to age. The other thing that's so funny is it's not one size fits all. Like there are some women

who into their fifties won't really have any wrinkles without intervention. And then there will be other women who are in their early twentiess who do look a bit older that is just the nature of the way that faces and genetics and things work you probably see it in your friendship group you see it online like there is really no one size fits all for how you're going to look and the thing about men aging it's just so true like when you see the deep wrinkles that men have you either think it's attractive or just completely don't notice it on the very odd occasion that you see a woman with really deep set wrinkles I do find it quite surprising so I'm just not used to seeing it so I think I do think that they're right I do think that the level of pylon that Millie Bobby Brown has received does feel astronomical compared

to I can't really think of anyone else that has had that level of vitriol and so I am glad she called it out because there is a world where this does happen so often that almost we could have just let that pass by. I really don't think that anything is going to change from it. The amount of times that we've seen celebrities or people in the public eye taking their own lives and all the media do this sort of like, oh my God, how did this happen? And then a week later, they're focusing on someone else. It does feel like we've gone backwards. It does feel like we're in a noughties circle of shame moment, especially with a Zen pic and everyone being very thin. And even there was loads of articles actually after the Brits and the Grammys and all of the Oscars being like, oh, the Zen pic carpet, because it feels like that's fair game. And I think there is this

element to if people are somehow changing their looks, if it's not something that they can't help, whereas it used to be like so-and-so's fat or so-and-so's got salite or so-and-so's whatever now people don't say those things they don't say that part out loud but they are happy to accuse people of correcting things that they might have been shamed for in the past and it feels like there's some sort of loophole there with the media where they're like well if you're going to get filler or if you're going to take a zempic we're going to call it out because of the reasons that actually loads of people have written in about which is that the lay public want to know and they feel like they have a duty to know but it's kind of cloaked in a faux concern way which is

actually just clickbait. I agree and I remember we said this during our beauty special but if women do it well they're commended and they're celebrated if they do it in a way that is perceived as not being perfect or it's obvious that they've had work done, they're completely ripped apart and they're basically the butt of a joke. I'm thinking of Lindsay Lohan and her reported facelift and the fact that the entire world, when they saw her come out in her latest Netflix film, just commended her so much, so, so much. And it is just like you can't win unless you get the perfect work done which is still not holding people accountable in the way that people are claiming they're doing for Millie Bobby Brown so I do think there is a level of that being disingenuous or something that I hadn't really thought about until this is the just like the relative position of power that any famous person

is in even if they're young even if they're vulnerable and by virtue of being a young woman to you know their fans and the people that look up to them. I've got a message from Stacey who said that she's conflicted, which I think I am now. And she said, well, whilst I would never condone any online hate media reaction to her personally, it's undeniable that she looks older than 21. And I think whatever work she has done is to blame for that. And she goes on to say that the impact of having excessive fillers at an early age has been seen with others. Kylie Jenner comes to mind. But celebs have the wealth and access to continuously correct it's the young people spending lots of money on these treatments to look a certain way that will feel like the true impact and with a continued rise

in things like baby or preventative botox being marketed at younger people it will only get worse and this made me think of a book that you brought to the pod a few months ago and only which is pixel flesh by ellen atlanta which is something that i've been working through this year really good book great about how beauty culture harms women and there's so much in it that's relevant to this conversation i think everyone should just read it but that financial aspect and in the book she talks to these estheticians who are horrified by the trend of young women getting this preventative botox and they're horrified by their peers in the industry who are agreeing to do it, to essentially take money from young women unscrupulously. And in her research, she finds out that in 2021, the global anti-aging market was estimated to be worth about 62 billion. By 2027, it's estimated

to reach over 93 billion. Baby Botox is just sort of targeted Botox. It's still like £200 to £600 a session. And you can have like a session every four months, like up to you. But like, it can be a lot. And she writes, preventative Botox is an expense many can't afford. And further adds the economic vulnerability of women. These treatments breed dependence. Once you start, they need never really end in order to maintain the effects. You just have to get injected every few months.

And I just thought, oh my God, imagine starting Botox at the age that some women do, as encouraged to do by the women that they see in the media, by the influencers, by the industry themselves, who backed by this huge amount of yearly spend are able to market something like baby Botox. I mean, it is absolutely vile, but again, I would have fallen for it. I would have found the money to do it. And you think if I'd have started then, or if you do start then, by the time you're 30 or by the time at your age when you're starting to get the lines that Botox can help reduce the impact of or the appearance of, you could have spent £3,000, £6,000, £10,000 on something which, frankly, you wouldn't have needed. And the point of being young is you've got the fat, you've got the volume, you're getting a

procedure basically just to correct something that's not happened and I think even if there's not regret over how it looks then there will be a regret over the money spent and anyone who is in a position of propping up and encouraging I'm not saying really probably brown is doing that but a lot of people are that is I think straight tail so it's so interesting that people say that she looks older than 21 because actually I think in the video that she did where she's saying the statement she does look 21 she's got no makeup on you can see her skin and loads of the things around people looking older I weirdly another video come from my feed but this woman goes right I want to tell you all of the things that I do to make my skin look amazing as a 23 year old and then everyone's

like what I thought you're going to say 36 or something but the reason being just because we've spoken about this before but a lot of work isn't actually about age. It's kind of about how it translates your kind of earning bracket. So when we see people with lots of Botox and lip filler and stuff, we don't necessarily think they look younger, but they do look richer. There's like an access to certain types of things. And so in our brains, the way that we absorb that information is it used to be that it was only kind of like older women that had this work done. Younger women, when we were younger, would have probably quite bad makeup on. Like it wouldn't be applied that well. You probably would see our skin more.

Our roots probably wouldn't be done. There was lots of markers for our age, which actually were nothing to do with what we actually look age-wise, but just sort of what someone in our age bracket would look like. Whereas now, from 17 to 55, everyone's doing the same makeup. Everyone's getting the same hair done. Everyone's doing things to a really high standard. Everyone's also kind of dressing the same, whether you're 40 or 23.

Because of micro trends in social media, there's actually like fewer signifiers to point towards how old someone is. And that's what makes it quite confusing rather than like traditionally markers of aging, like wrinkles or gray hair or whatever. It's not anything to do with that. It's just kind of the fact that we have all sort of become ageless cyborgs who all subscribe to the same beauty ideals and so I think that's kind of what blurs the lines but I really don't think that she does look that much older than 21 I just think that there is very little difference when I see groups of like young teenage girls I know they're teenagers conceptually from the ways that they're acting but they look much older than we did but literally because I was wearing dream matte mousse on my lips had plucked my eyebrows

completely out and my hair was like poker straight with bits like there was weed that you could tell I was a teenager because of those things and because of everyone being like amateur everything makeup artists and stylists and stuff I think that's another thing we've got to think about when we're talking about how old people look we've spoken about this before but I've not had Botox for a while now i'm trying to not get it because i don't want to fall into the trap of being too reliant on it i did get it last year have my lip filler dissolved i'm really trying to make peace with my natural face because i have gone through phases of being desperate to want a nose job

i had a consultation for buccal fat removal as you guys probably remember coming from sit on the pod i don't remember that and it was like 200 pounds can't believe i did it ever and my family was like furiously my friends were like what the fuck are you doing i don on the pod. I don't remember that. And it was like £200. I can't believe I did it ever. And my family was like furiously. My friends were like, what the fuck are you doing? I was like, I don't actually know. I can't believe I did that. Yeah. So it's one of those things

that once you're in the system of getting stuff done, it's really easy to do it. But there is another world where you just go, actually, this is my face. You're going to have to go over it. And just keep...

And don't... You're not getting my money either. Yeah. We did get a message from Catriona that said breaking news child star looks older at 21 than they did at 11 and i mentioned earlier that kind of paedophilic fascination that men have had with millie since she first appeared on the show age 10 or 11 i believe i mean it's absolutely shocking to say but is it surprising maybe not and then i

think the backlash to her appearing older from women no i you know i do believe that there is a cruel scrutiny and then also on the flip side, there is this frustration with, please don't fall into these traps. We want a better world for all young women. But with men, I can only read this, the comments from men, as frustration that they can no longer indulge their fantasies about her, that they can no longer extract the same pleasure from her as they did when she was young.

And I think this happens to so many child stars like Emma Watson, Christina Ricci, Kirsten Dunst, Natalie Portman when she was in film when she was 11 years old they get older and men get frustrated and I think accusations like hitting a wall and you know this is total speculation but I think if my body my face had been kind of looked at and commented on my whole life I mean the minute I was 18 I'd be wearing a muumuu the idea of like seeking out more grown aesthetics as a way to be like look I'm not a child star you will not do this to me anymore she's a married woman now like she you know she's had a job for much longer than I have and she's 10 years younger if there is an element of that I don't blame her I just think that's quite an

interesting idea that I would definitely be like no I will look as grown as I like thank you so much for listening and for all of your opinions and takes on this topic we love being in conversation with you remember to go give us a follow on instagram and tiktok at everything is content pod and please please please give us a review wherever you listen if you haven't already we'll see you as always on friday Bye!