Everything Is Content - Everything In Conversation: The (Katie) Price Of Fame

Episode Date: September 2, 2026

Hi there EICrocodiles! Today’s bonus episode is dedicated to the myth, the legend… Jordan AKA The Pricey AKA Katie Price. In July, Louis Theroux’s production company released a four-part documentary series offering a retrospective on the 30 years Price has spent in the public eye, and reflecting on the fallout of living a life seemingly dedicated to headline culture. For some she’s a a national treasure, an icon of the 90s and 00s and a fixture of British culture. Others criticise her for a history of questionable behaviour. In this episode we dive into the picture painted of Katie Price in this docuseries, how she has bounced back after a series of traumas and scandals, and why our soft spot doesn’t seem to want to go away. Was Katie Price the original Molly-Mae? Are we willing to set aside her scandals for entertainment value? Is this just a woman processing trauma?  Katie Price: Nothing To Hide is available on NOW TV and Sky Documentaries. Thank you SO much for all of your takes and opinions on this topic. We love being in conversation with you! O,R,B. xoxoxoxoLinksIrish Examiner - Jennifer Horgan: Katie Price: Nothing to Hide lays bare an unlikeable but deeply sympathetic character The Guardian - Katie Price: Nothing to Hide – this remarkable profile is as fascinating and exhausting as its subject Sky - Watch 'Katie Price: Nothing To Hide'Independent - Katie Price shares huge regret over Gareth Gates relationshipReddit R/UKPopculture - "Peter Andre was so cruel to Katie Price" PETA - PETA Offers Katie Price £5,000 to Stop Acquiring AnimalsWales Online - Katie Price breaks silence on Lee Andrews '£250k sex tape' as sister blasts himBBC - Katie Price banned from driving for seventh timeBBC - Katie Price told to pay ex-husband £25,000 over sex life claimsPublishedMetro - Katie Price describes her South African carjacking attemptGrazia - Kim Kardashian’s Starstruck Tweet Over Katie Price And Peter Andre Resurfaces Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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And this is Everything in Conversation, the content padding in the push-up bra of pop culture. In case you missed it, Everything Is Content is now on Substack, where the three of us will be writing well everything pop culture plus sharing even more recommendations for great TV, film, long read, sandwiches, the lot. You can and should subscribe right now, where our Everything is Content Pod, that is one word, and we'll also pop a link in the show notes. So, in July, Katie Price, the woman, the myth, the legend. The Pricey released a brand new four-part documentary on Sky called Katie Price Nothing to Hide. Produced by Lutheru's Mindhouse. The first episode was a look into Katie's childhood, her absent father, her first loves, and her transition from Katie Price, the woman, to Jordan, the page three powerhouse.

In subsequent episodes, Katie lays bare her many marriages, tabloid cruelty, her struggles with addiction, motherhood, betrayals, plastic, surgery and more. Contributors include her mum, her brother, stepdad, sister, her ex, Dane Bowers, who she calls the love of her life, her ex-Garrett Gates, who finds out the truth about rumors that she was the one to leak their relationship to the press, and her ex-husband, Alex Reid, who she was ordered to pay £25,000 in high court damages for, quote, misusing details about his sex life, plus her children, Princess, and Junior, and many of her friends. So I want to ask both of you, I know that we've all watched this documentary, but before you watched it, how did you both feel about Katie Price and what was your relationship to the woman, the myth, the legend, the Pricy?

So I didn't really have much of a relationship to Katie Price. I knew about her. I remember maybe first learning about her when she went on, I'm a celebrity. And that feels pretty late in the grand scheme of her career. And I think coming into this, I find her fascinating on. an academic kind of anthropological, historical, cultural level, but I don't really have any kind of personal relationship to her. So I am so excited to hear from you guys because I imagine that might be different and I'm hoping it's different. And if so, I kind of want to hear about somebody who more has enjoyed her as a figure, you know, throughout their life compared to me. Oh my God, I've always had such a soft spot for Katie Price. I've just loved her. I'm sure that I was ambiently aware of her before I'm a celib, but I feel like I wasn't, I knew who she was, but I wasn't, I was quite

young at that point. So I wasn't necessarily like fully invested in her career, but I watched that I'm a celib series religiously and me and my sister went on to watch her and Peter's show, which we absolutely loved. And I've always, through it all, just kind of loved her. And I've always felt kind of sorry whenever she's popped up more later in life and it's been like kind of a tragic thing. There was a period where it felt like it was just bad news on bad news on bad news. So I have enjoyed, I mean, I loved watching the documentary, which obviously we'll get into, but I do like hearing from her, and I'm really glad that she's still around. And I guess everyone will take this documentary differently. And there is a lot of trauma and

tragedy in her life, but I'm glad that she has, she's come out the other side, scathed, for sure. But yeah, I really love her. What about you, Bear? Yeah, I think you can see me nodding along. I also have a very fond. I'm a pricey apologist. I'm a pricey apologist. I think I am so willing to have the conversations about the things that she has done wrong. I mean, she's the most willing of anyone, I think, to discuss the things that she's done wrong. But I do. I find something about her. Very endearing. I think that she is a very honest, vulnerable person who is, I mean, fame has done a number on her, but I think she has been, for the most part, up for the challenge. I think she's such an interesting case. But I do. I can't help feel fond of her. And I think that is a part of, yes,

watching her. I'm a celebrity. This was early 2000. She must have been in her mid. She'd had Harvey. And she had him, I think when she was 24. She'd had the toddler. So I think she was in her late 20s, which is no age at all to be that famous and that scrutinized. I think it is impossible to be a young woman that grows up in Britain, sees the tabloids, grows into someone that is very, like us three really critical and really analytical about how bad that system is and not feel for Katie even if you're someone that thinks she has done quite a lot of she's made quite a lot of mistakes and should be held to account I don't know how you could possibly think she's not also been harmed so yeah I kind of love her she was 25 on that first time a celebrity

oh my god that was so young when I first started the series I was kind of dubious about how much I would get out of it because like I said my positioning is very different from you two but I think actually it was really ripe for somebody who didn't have much knowledge of her life because I learned so many things which I now realize are super obvious for people in the fandom such as the fact that she dated Gareth Gates. I did not know that. That was my level of knowledge. So even knowing about the intricacies of their relationship, their age gap, which is very, very, very difficult to stomach. He was 17, she was 23. That I found very difficult to kind of sit with and understandably so. So kind of learning retrospectively about tabloid culture at the time,

it was such a good watch. I just have this like real sort of like imbued. I just feel warmly towards her. And that's just like growing up with her or feeling her so feeling like I knew her so well through watching her TV. But then there is obviously with hindsight and not only just in the documentaries, but other information that's like come forward throughout the years, you do think this is a woman who is extremely complicated. But yeah, I can't love her, but you're right. I that the Gareth Gates part of it all, it was very tender. It still felt like it was kind of a bit raw in a way that felt like maybe he hadn't even properly. They were kind of approaching it from a place where I wonder how many conversations have actually happened since then or if he has just

kind of buried it and maybe tried not to look back too much. I think that was the difficult thing. It was seeing his reaction. You're so right. It was not only the fact that the age gap and the situation is a really just difficult thing to learn about because it's just like, it's a big age gap, isn't it? And if the roles were reversed gender-wise, it would be very, very black and white, the way we speak about it. But obviously, these things become more difficult when you learn about the amount of trauma she goes through and it becomes really just like a bajillion shades of grey to even try and work your way into a conversation about, even though it is bad. But the thing I was going to say is seeing him get quite teary and just he looks

very fragile talking about it, even though it's been decades later. And that's the thing I actually found very difficult to watch. So they had this underwrapped relationship when he was, she was already very famous and he was sort of emerging. He was still on, I want to say pop stars of rivals, but it wasn't pop stars the rivals, but it was the, it was pop idol. Pop idol. Pop idol, which I remember watching. I mean, I must have been in year three, year four and he was alongside Harry Potter, he was hot property. He was number one. Oh my gosh. I was more of a little young girl. I obviously did not have much for Gaydar. Anyway, they were in this relationship. It came out in the, in the press, it was released that I think it was still or a video of her leaving his hotel room and that

basically broke their relationship and he for years thought that she was the one that set up these pictures and so in the documentary they the producers say to him so we talked to the paparazzi who had the camera there we talked to the company and it wasn't her at all and there's this really tender moment where I think he finally closes the loop on that and it's quite sweet I mean they're not in contact it kind of feels like they both have moved on from it, but it must be quite nice to think, oh, I've carried all this time, like a possibility that someone I, I think he was in love with her, someone that I loved, maybe a first love, had done this really heinous thing to me. And I know that there was some heinous back and forth

in the tabloids, but at least in that count, maybe he's got some peace, that she didn't set that up. Yeah, it's difficult because all I could think about was him being 17 is so young and you learned that that was his first sexual experience. Obviously, she tells the tabloids that basically he lost his virginity to her and that level of betrayal of just something so intimate, just becoming such public knowledge. And in the tabloids as well, obviously the most scathing, ruthless, horrible place it could be. All I could just feel is that is a trauma that would last your entire life. So I wasn't surprised that he needed some kind of answer. He was, I don't know, there's still a gap around that whole situation because it would take

endless amounts of therapy to even begin to try and crack that. But I feel like sometimes all you need is just to understand that somebody wouldn't actually do that to you. I mean, the shocking thing is how many of these tabloids were, like how nasty they were, how common it was to sell stories. I think now it's such a, it's so much less of a focal point of now it's leaks and it's people on social media will come out and say something. But it used to be you go to the sign and you would sell your story and they would write this absolutely egregiously salacious, horrible story.

Like, I think she and Pete were doing them about them after they broke up. Like it was really, it's so funny to think how much the landscape has changed. It is a really nasty thing. And maybe we'll get onto the psychology of it. I always feel like Katie Price is someone that she's quite reactive. I think when she thinks that she's been harmed, she harms not to excuse her. And I think some things that she's done have been, a lot of it is inexcusable. But I do feel like her psychology is really clear when you are watching this. She feels that someone has her, abandoned her, whatever, she will lash out and strike. It's quite a defensive thing. It really broke my heart to think that they had these tools, which was basically

splash it all over the front page, make it into gossip when it is all of these people's broken hearts. Really nasty time. It's so funny. You literally took the words up my mouth because I was about to say, I know that we're focusing on the harm that she has inflicted, but I found the way that she was harmed and harmed herself in which she spoke about herself in those very early episodes. I found that it was such a foundational amount of information because we learn about her, like the amount of trauma that she receives as a child and kind of like the most horrific experiences that she has and that part of her drive to getting into this industry of like kind of modeling and page three was she loved the idea of people being able to look at her but not touch her and then she

has all of these kind of issues with intimacy and wanting people to be close to her wanting people to love her like she is in lots of ways I kept thinking she made me think of like a broken baby bird and at the same time there seems to be just constant collateral damage from exactly like you said, Beth, like when someone she perceives herself to be harmed, she will lash out and harm someone. And I think that watching it play out is, I mean, I just, I found it really devastating from a parasycial point of view. And also, I guess, maybe just from like a particular sort of lens of thinking about the way that women think about themselves and that as a general thing, right in those early episodes, you see these amazing early headshots of her where she's

just objectively absolutely gorgeous. But so just just to just, to watch her standing there looking at herself and being like, I was so ugly. I mean, it's just really kind of like that was quite devastating. I think what the documentary did that was quite clever was, I didn't feel like it presented a clean answer for who this woman is, but it very much gave you Katie on both sides, this woman who has experienced a lot of trauma and also a woman who is capable of harming others, whether intentional or not. I feel like she doesn't know herself enough and I don't feel like she's got herself into a good enough place to be able to answer a lot of the questions we have. And I think that's the problem. It's both an interesting

part of the documentary, but it's also kind of a frustrating part of the documentary I found. Like, with the Gareth Gates incident, for example, she's asked about it and she's like, well, I was hurt. And she has that kind of serrated edge when you push her on it. And then she was like, yeah, it was wrong. And she gets there, but she can't say any more about it. And I just felt like I really wanted this kind of honest moment of just saying that was quite fucked up actually or just like getting a bit further down. And like you said with the body image stuff, which is very clearly still an issue because the way she looks at her former self is really fucking heartbreaking actually and like really, really devastating and really hard to listen to. But I think she's still

somebody who hasn't got to the perfect point of recovery, whatever that looks like for her as an individual. she's not, you know, the post child for before and after trauma. She's still going through a lot of it and she's still experiencing, as we know, from the recent stories about her, I don't know, current ex-partner who allegedly scammed her. These are cycles that are continuing. So I think doing a documentary at this stage is really interesting, but it's also very difficult because you're not going to get the perfect conclusion to a lot of the questions you have.

And also one thing I found kind of annoying is, do you guys know the trope that seems to be every single documentary, including the Victoria Beckham won, including Amy, including Senna, including Maradonna, where it's like there was the Diego, then there was the Maradona, there was the Katie Price, then there was the Jordan. You know, I was comfortable as the wag term. I wasn't comfortable as young Vicky. And it's just, it's such a template for understanding celebrity in a documentary.

It's such a cliche. Do you think it's a cliche, although do you think it's like a really interesting examination of what we do to public figures? Because Jordan and Katie Price, I do believe, were two. separate entities in her mind to the point where I didn't know that Jordan was Katie Price until she became Katie Price. I was never aware of like a pre-jordan. I just thought that was her name. And I think that it's quite an interesting thing. Why is it that we have to create these caricatures? Like why do famous people throughout history? I think even like Marilyn Monroe would talk about sort of

like the person that she was in front of people and the person that she was behind closed doors. And I think that it feels like a cliche probably because it is just a true thing, like the mask that we wear in order to perform for all of these people. There was a really good piece that I read in The Independent that came out after the documentary by Adam White that said, Price's story is driven by its contradictions. She's both a Machiavelyan genius and a fragile ex-addict, a heroic template for self-actualization and a victim of deep-set body dysmorphia and self-loathing, a publicity, hungry, former kiss and tal girl, and a woman deeply traumatized by a litany of terrible man.

And I think that is such a good way of summing it up, and it is an interesting, because as much as she has been scorched by awful publicity and awful tabloy papers, I do think there is such an interesting undercurrent of goodwill towards her, almost like she was raised in the flames of this like new frontier of what we understand the media to be. She was so of the time that she almost is like emblematic of it to the point where I do think people, she's treated awfully in lots of ways, but I do think there are other people that have just disappeared and fallen off and no one really cares who they are anymore. And I wonder if it is because she is so truly unboxable in those ways?

I think she is powerful. I saw someone compare her to Molly May, like the Molly May really of our generation. And it wasn't saying that they have similar images or similar come-ups, but it's very much. If Molly May puts her name to something, it will sell.

For Katie, 10 times. I mean, if you look in the documentary, they're talking about this, she'll write a book, she'll write another book, she'll sell horseware, she'll sell deodorant. She couldn't count the amount of products

that she'd put her name to and sold out. So I think she is, enduring, not just in her spirit, but just in her celebrity, like Katie Price, you will always be famous to heart back just for a moment to what you said, Ritcher, about the sort of like dingamaradana of it all and whatever else. Like I do actually notice that when you say it. I think it's no longer an interesting observation that famous people give us these delineated selves, that they will behind the scenes be X, Y, Z, and then in public be X, Y, Z or ABC. Like it's the famous Rita Hayworth quote, like they go to bed with girls.

but they wake up with me. Like, I think that is maybe the Katie Price Jordan problem. She was so, she was so known to us, and she is so known to us as that sort of early 2000s, late 90s figure of Jordan. And then perhaps she was, especially in terms of her relationships, getting into relationships with men that thought, I'm going to marry Jordan. But they married Katie Price instead, and they left Katie Price instead or whatever, whatever happened.

I think for her it's especially true. There is those selves. And I do, maybe I was also watching. hoping there would be more of a marriage at the end of like, but this is who I truly am. And she ends the documentary, sort of on this note of hopefulness of like, I will never put up with this again.

But obviously there's still stories being run. Like you say with her about Leandre's, about her current husband. He posts them on social media as though they are still together. There are all these allegations against him. I think he is a massive shitbag. That is my opinion. I don't know what's true and what's not.

So I do know. I do feel also like it's presented as like she's arrived at this place. I think there's a way to go. and I will just, I will root for her. Yeah, and we had quite a lot of messages from people who felt the exact same way. Ava said, just wanted to wrap baby Katie in cotton wool. Couldn't help but feel like it was all just so, so tragic, her life outlook, relationships, everything.

And Lauren said, no one could ever make me hate the pricey. The doc was amazing. What do you think it is about Katie Price, Katie Price, specifically, not Jordan, because I do think it is Katie, that people feel so maternalistic, paternalistic. They just feel like we are, you. you know, a decade younger than her, and we're all like, we just wish we could protect her. What is that? I mean, there's a clip where they show her kind of like having these interviews where she talks about her relationship and she is extremely vulnerable in a way that I think, I think

we know how to perform vulnerability now in a way that feels really sincere and earnest, but it's like, it's very much still a performance. And to go back to this idea of like her having these two characters, I do think they existed, but I think at the same time, I'm now thinking of like the Charlie X, the X, X, Lyric. She's just a girl from. Where's she from? Is she from Essex? No. She's from Brighton. Yeah, I'm just a young girl from Brighton. I genuinely think that's what you like kind of saw in her speaking. And even just like, I mean, it is the tragedy.

It's like the kind of toxicity of the choices that she was making when relation was going wrong. There's a time when she kind of like hospitalized herself. It's just kind of like set out a warning signal, you know, that she's not doing okay. But it's actually all just like a cry for help. I think it was, I think she does also just have the sweetness. I think this is something that maybe is like beyond intellectualizing. I think some people are just really likable.

and there's actually that is not something that you can like bottle up and create. It's just you have a thing about you, which is like you just kind of do want to protect it. And I also think unfortunately the kind of car crash element of not wanting to look away at the same time. And even like you're saying with the Leandro saying, there's people going, how she just set this all up? Like is she just doing this because this is another good publicity thing. She's created kind of such a story around herself that she's almost that you will never really, I guess it feels like you'd never know. the truth, even though I did feel like I couldn't help but feel like I trusted everything that she said, which is funny because I know that a lot of people don't necessarily feel that way.

Like some people feel very strongly that she's sort of the creator and the maker of everything that exists around her. But maybe I'm very naive. That is also a celebrity documentary. I remember this conversation happened with Taylor Swift's documentary Miss Americana, people going, wow, what an insight. What, and you have to remind yourself with both this. And I know it was produced and made by Louis Thru's documentary, but like I think she has a hand in this, but maybe I'm wrong. But documentaries that are created in part by the celebrities themselves are, you have to think, what is the PR angle on this? What is the truth? You know, versus a completely impartial documentary, which are very hard to make and fewer and fewer

on the ground. We've got a message from Kaye, who said, love. She's obf's very problematic, but it's so refreshing to see a messy life. And I think that's maybe also what is so compelling, is that you do get this raw, unfiltered look, whereas even with Beckham's documentary we mentioned, like, that is a massive PR exercise to sell Victoria Beckham as designer to kind of really rehab the image of the family and stuff like this. This was so much mess that it felt like it wasn't that and I could really slip into thinking, like you say, that I was hearing the truth and the fact that she's hearing from Gareth Gates, from Jane Bowers, people that she's not in touch with anymore. I mean, I would have loved to hear from Peter Andre, but obviously he's never, ever

going to do any of these. I think, I mean, I would love to talk about him as well. He's media trained to the hill for sure. Oh, he is. Him and his very sweet and quite dull wife. I just think we'll never really get that from him. But I do think her heartbreak about him, I know I'm going all over the place. I think this is the magic Katie Price who are so much to talk about. The heartbreak I felt coming off her when she was saying, like, she has not spoken to this man since their relationship ended. That is 17, 18, 18 years of no contact with the father of her children with a man that she says that she would not ever have left, she thought was the love for life. This, I think, is for me why I find her impossible to even dislike, because she is very,

very emotional. She is a really tender person that would just say, I thought that man was to love my life. I thought he was a love my life. I was heartbroken. I never thought I'd, like, but she still got up and she still went to work and she still raised her children. And I just, God, it is. I don't know whether I've fallen for propaganda here, but I really, really, I feel something in her that I don't feel in other celebrities, which is a kind of honesty. I think she's just also gone through so many different things. And like it feels like she's had 20 lives on this earth. So every time she talks about something else, you are just like, how can one person experience a second longer of this? And I think there is something in like, she has undeniably been through

fucking shit. Like I couldn't even think of another comparable example. If you even remove the celebrity aspects of it. Everything that she's experienced in her personal life that is related to the media because they report on it, but otherwise it's not related to the media because it's not directly being harmed from them at the beginning. All of that is bad enough. If a person experienced that, they would not get up again, I would believe and that would be completely understandable. So you are right. I also think there's something kind of childlike about her. And I think that really calls out in certain moments. Like even when they show the footage of her and I'm a a celeb and she's with P, and they are just talking and she just like gets really shy and she's

watching herself and she's like getting emotional about it. I just felt like, I don't know, I just felt really emotional watching it because she seems so sweet and so young. And I, I do wonder not to do bloody armchair psychology, but I, you know, we're all kind of carrying different child versions of ourselves all the time. I wonder if there's something about relationships with men where child versions of herself are allowed to come out and that very vulnerable part comes out because it felt like, it felt like this very sweet young girl who was like kind of, you know, fancying a crush for the first time. And it just endeared me to her immediately, even though the documentary was already doing that a few times. That scene in particular, I found very moving. I always come up because I can never get over that story of when she got carjacked in South Africa and was sexually sold to in 2018 with her children. Like that kind of story, it's this woman who has, it's like lightning never strikes twice, but with Katie Price it's striking like every week. I've never really known anyone to have. it's absolutely wild. And on the other end of that,

and this is not actually related. So I don't want it to sound like I'm saying that she'll like manifest it. But what I always find interesting about women like Katie Price and actually other people who become famous and it is for a thing, but then they kind of end up being famous for being famous as sake, they will often say and she says it like she just, and her mom says it. She's like she just knew she was going to be someone.

And I think sometimes when people have that drive, it becomes like a curse because you often like kind of fulfill it, not to do with like the traumatizing things that happened in her life, but almost like once she unleashed that need and desire and want to be someone, she unfortunately got granted again, sorry to keep quoting lyrics, but pussycat dolls,

be careful what you wish for because you just might get it. I just kept thinking it's so interesting because I felt really sad because she's an incredible businesswoman, like you said Beth, she was talking about one of my favorite bits in the documentaries when she's saying about how she figured out if she called the Papps and she fell out of a club, she could literally get paid

to go on nights out. She was framing it in that way. She wasn't thinking, like she was really thinking about business. So she's got, she's got so many amazing tools at her disposal. And it's so sad that she's been siphoned through this patriarchal society that has made her so obsessive about the way she looks, so obsessive about a man's love, that the way that all of that intelligence and aspirational and ambition and whatever else became something that manifested in like years and years of self-loathing and hundreds of pounds worth of surgery and quite dangerous choices that she made in order to kind of. fulfill that one tunnel vision of what I guess she perceived to be like the pinnacle of success because without all of that surrounding her like it would have been fascinating to see who

Katie Price could have become without that scaffolding around her. We had a message from Anand and I think it kind of touches on what you're saying, which is she was a Trojan horse for all that our society has become. He did say I will not elaborate, so I'll try and elaborate what I think he means. When you talk about this drive she has and it just this singular pursuit, and she just put it out there and she made it happen. I feel like having watched parts of the documentary, I'm like, my God, she is probably the best commodifier of her own life I have ever seen.

And I think that's partly the fuel that got her to where she is. Even that very difficult scenario when she talks about having Harvey, and she was like, well, of course I was going to share it with tabloids. I share everything else. So it would be a problem or it would suggest that I think that, you know, there's an issue with sharing him if I didn't. and you're just like, oh, I don't know, you're putting all the pieces out there and I see what you're saying, but I just wouldn't have got to the same conclusion. Basically, I just think there is no part of her life that she wouldn't have commodified in pursuit of just kind of fueling, fueling, fueling, fueling, more of the rise.

It's also quite an extraordinary but also difficult thing to see because we do have all of these understandings of how modification of the self has become so widespread and we're all miserable because of it. seeing somebody do it and have no problem with it is really difficult. I mean, she is at least making bank from doing it. It's very interesting to see. I mean, I don't know what her financial situation. It seems to have fluctuated. There's always reports, oh, Mucky Mansion, she's gone bankrupt. But when they're talking about her financial situation and her brother was saying, we are writing checks for, you know, we're paying tax bills for about 300 grand. She's making money. It's so interesting, actually, we all do that for free now. It's so, like, there's nothing that we won't put online. She at least had the good sense to monetize it. But more seriously,

like I do also feel the same. I do feel it's such a unique case in the early 2000s and the 2000s early 2010s putting, you know, there were famous people and then there was the rest of us and there were people that would have famous children, their children would be in their tabloid content and now that's become social media content. It's so different. It's the same. But yeah, she was at least paid handsomely for it, which is a kind of faulty bargain that I can understand. When people are doing it free, that is when I start to go, we have all lost the plot. But yeah, I think Anand is right. And you, it's banning on that. I think you know. nailed it. Like it is, these seeds have become big oak trees of how actually we are all doing

things now. She really was the blueprint. She was. But like, you know, and you suffered her and someone that like didn't mind doing it. I think also the context of it being at that point in time, it was like today's news is tomorrow's chip paper. Like you didn't really probably have a sense of permanence. And I even think with like her showing her kids and stuff, it is such a different world now. Like it's so weird that we've all seemed to have entered into this contractual agreement where it's like opt out. Like you have to opt out of sharing your children rather than making the decision to share them.

It's almost like a weird choice where everything has flipped. But I do think that ultimately she has been very harm. But I wonder like who would she, it's started for her so young and it's so much of who she is that I feel like it would be in a weird way that she's not losing anything anymore because it's already there.

Like it's so much a fabric of who she is. But she definitely is. You can kind of watch, you can track. Like I guess it's like her, the Osbournes, the Kardashians, just all of these. people that eventually now we're all doing that. Like people like you said, they're just blogging their whole lives and putting it on YouTube.

Do you remember talking of the Kardashians? Do you remember when Kim Kardashian was on the same flight as Jordan? She tweeted like, oh my God, I'm on the same flight as Jordan. Like, that's how famous this woman is. Kim Kardashian 15 years ago was excited at the prospect of meeting her. I would say for balance, some scandals of Katie Price that maybe we should mention just to kind of give the perspective on why people do find her not just they don't like her, but they do find her behaviour quite objectionable.

So there was, we mentioned at the top, the treatment of her ex-Alex Reid. She has been sentenced for drink driving, I think a few times. In 2021, the judge stated that she had one of the worst driving records they had seen. She was handed an 80-months community order and 170 hours of unpaid work in 2022 for breaching restraining order that prevented her from contacting her ex-husband's fiancé. I think that was Kieran Hela. And she'd been blasted by Peter quite a few times, but most recently this year for buying a £2,000 puppy with husband Lee Andrews,

after the deaths of several animals in her care. So Peter's UK Senior Vice President told the daily male, is there no low to which Katie Price will not stoop? While one of her cats, Doris is reportedly still missing, instead of being worried sick and out searching for her, as any caring, responsible guardian would, she has flown to another country and acquired a new dog, as easily as replacing a pair of socks,

and a pomp ski of all animals in the Dubai heat to add insult to injuries, and they also offered her £5,000 to stop collecting animals in a sort of publicity stunt. It's really difficult. I think my fondness for her is because she is so hounded. I think she is absolutely this kind of scarlet woman and the misogyny, the absolute abuse and the horrible luck that she's had. But then you do look at those things and you think,

I so want you to be well and to live well, but I also want these things to stop. It's tough. Yeah, it is really. And when you read that, you think I'm sitting there going, oh, God. But also it's interesting because her whole family,

like the documentary, like you said, like everyone is in here. And she seems to have a great support network. So if anything, and maybe this is unbearer of me, but I think, I do think there's obviously parts of her where she struggles with certain things. And I, I guess I want to, on her behalf, abdicate some responsibility to, like, a more adult adult and be like, can you just make sure she doesn't buy another dog? That is really upsetting and, you know, doesn't get into dangerous driving situations and whatever. But her as a person, if I, and it's funny, I can do

that because there's some people that I can't. So I don't know why. If I really, it actually is like quite a comment on me, but there's something about, her and the place that she lives in in my brain. It's not that she's faultless, but it does feel like so many people have profited so much of this woman and are probably living with the riches, whether or not they have difficulty getting to sleep at night. I don't know, but she's certainly born the scars of her actions and there's so many other silent people who participate in her life that kind of get away scot-free. And so I think that's always the way she's all I would, I would love her just have a really quiet and peaceful rest of her life where she's comfortable and happy and maybe has a bit of privacy.

And my feelings for Pete will remain the same forever on her behalf. Mm-hmm. Not positive. Not when you see the clips back in hindsight now either. We could do a whole episode on that. Thank you so much for listening and for all of your opinions and takes on this topic. We love being in conversation with you all. See you on Friday.

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